RCIPS Commissioner candidates line up

| 15/04/2009

(CNS): Update 5:00 pm: A staff member of the Public Affairs office of the Savannah-Chatham Metro Police has confirmed that their Police Chief Michael Berkow (left) is in the running for the position of Police Commissioner in the Cayman Islands, though she told CNS, when asked to confirm that he had applied for the job, that rather he had been approached by someone from the Cayman Islands, but declined to say who that person was. In 2005, the former head of the Los Angeles Police Department’s internal affairs unit faced a sexual harassment law suit by female LAPD officer Ya-May Christle, and while the suit was dismissed, she was awarded $1 million in damages from the LAPD for retaliating against her for bringing the suit.

Also on the shortlist  is female Detective Superintendent with the British Transport Police Ellie Bird; Richard Cullen, Head of the Probation Area Co-ordination Unit in the Home Office; and Cheshire’s Assistant Chief Constable David Baines, to whom CNS offers a sincere apology as he is not the Baines facing an enquiry over a potential wrongful murder conviction as stated earlier.

Along side these candidates is the current Acting Commissioner James Smith, who failed to secure the position when he interviewed in 2005, and Richard Brunstrom, the Chief Constable of North Wales.

Following the revelations yesterday by CNS that Brunstrom, who has been dubbed the “Mad Mullah of the Traffic Taliban” because of his campaign against speeding motorists, had made the list, it has now been revealed that Berkow who is currently serving with the Savannah-Chatham Metropolitan (Georgia) Police faced a law suit by a long serving female officer from the LAPD.

Ya-May Christle had served seventeen years when she claimed she was demoted after complaining that Berkow had been giving female officers preferential treatment in exchange for sexual favours. The suit was dismissed by Superior Court Judge Haley Fromholz, who said he did not find enough evidence that the Berkow, who was a deputy chief at the time, had discriminated against five officers.

Depositions given to the court, which were opened after the Los Angeles Times filed a motion to request that the sealed document be made public, revealed that Berkow had been involved with a fellow female sergeant officer but had denied that he promoted her or was directly involved in her supervision.

In the deposition, Michael Berkow, who is married, said he met Sgt. Andrea Balter in 2003 and had sex with her over the next three years. Until January 2005, she worked for the internal affairs division as an advocate, a kind of internal prosecutor handling police misconduct cases, including those involving inappropriate sexual relationships.

Christie, though the sexual harassment suit was dismissed, was awarded more than $1 million in damages after a jury found that the LAPD retaliated against her for complaining about Berkow. They rejected Christie’s claims that she was the victim of racial discrimination and that her protections under the Peace Officers Bill of Rights were infringed upon.

Aside from this most recent claim, Berkow has reportedly been named in at least six suits.

Meanwhile, besides sending Christmas cards to crime suspects reminding them that the police are watching, David Baines is a scuba diver  and is not the UK police officer also named David Baines who is at the centre of a growing controversy of an old murder case as reported in The Times on 26 February. 

Ellie Bird, who has 26 years service and is Vice President of the British Association for Women in Policing, has worked in uniform, detective and headquarters roles as well as Operations Superintendent on London Underground. Bird who was reportedly placed on the list after a Canadian candidate allegedly dropped out also has experience in policing child abuse and domestic violence investigations, as well as public protection and serious crime. In a recent article for international women’s day she noted there was still a long way to go regarding gender abuse. “Many people still believe discrimination, physical, mental and sexual abuses are no longer significant issues affecting millions of women across the world – clearly we still need to educate,” she said.

Richard Cullen a former Chief Superintendent with the Metropolitan Police and now serving as Head of the Probation Area Co-ordination Unit in the Home Office, learned to dive in 2007 for a charity event. He has also been something of a TV personality following his involvement in a BBC documentary which aimed to discover who killed Rasputin. An academic, Cullen previously  served as the director of training and development at the UK police training college in Hendon and has trained officers overseas, including Russia. He has written a number of publications regarding frontline leadership.

Given that the Acting Commissioner is only on contract until June and most senior officers would require a notice period of two months, it is anticipated that an announcement as to who will be taking up the top cop job with the RCIPS will be made very soon. The vacancy for the senior RCIPS post came in the wake of the suspension of three senior police officers followed by the dismissal of Commissioner Stuart Kernohan. Acting Commissioner Smith was the third man in post since March 2008 when it was revealed that a Special Police Investigation Team (SPIT) from Scotland Yard was in the Cayman Islands investigating alleged corruption in the RCIPS and the judiciary.

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  1. Anonymous says:
    ‘Could you EVER imagine the day where the UK is predominantly governed, policed, judged, politically represented, taught, and economically led by a people / agenda other than what is known to be traditionally British?’
    Maybe it is time for Cayman to have a referendum on independence then? On this website we continually hear people complaining about the governor, the FCO, and the UK. Well if people don’t like it they don’t have to have it, vote the UK out like Jamaica did, and good luck to you.
     
    In this case I really hope it all works out for Cayman, but be warned, without any links to the UK there will be nobody else to blame for your mistakes, and you will start to have accepting responsibilities for your own problems.
  2. anonymous says:

    Hi Whodatis,

    Firstly, I did not arrive on any kind of fairy boat, for as we all know there are no fairies. To insinuate that I live in some kind of fantasy is quite insulting to say the least though I will take it as a tongue in cheek comment. I have seen and witnessed first hand, human misery and suffering on a daily basis the likes of which the average person would never see. That gives me a very clear sense of reality.

    I don’t need to google racism in the police. I know what the day to day reality of the working environment is like, having lived it for the best part of my adult working life. Are there racists in the police – absolutely yes – as there are in the rest of society. Did I witness it – No! Not from officers to me, nor from my colleagues to the public. I saw hard working people who tried to make a difference and help people in the main. That was my UK experience. Sure there are lazy officers – uniform carriers we called them. They were there to collect a pension and were normally the much older officers , who by then had become disillusioned and fed up with what they had seen and done, but it was too late for them to change. I do not believe that any of the people I worked with ever went to work to do a bad job. For you to make a blanket claim that nothing has changed in the UK police over the last 10 years without any terms of reference, basing it solely on sensationalised news reports, does a great disservice to the thousands of people who have worked towards change. There will always be those who will play the race card. There will always be those who fall foul of the law who will have a story to tell especially if it gets them out of trouble. And those with a genuine grievance.

    I never found the UK officers in Cayman to be uniform carriers. They are motivated individuals who have travelled a long way to try and make a difference and also improve their lives. Upon arrival they found some people who are not as well trained, and were not so motivated. They found some lazy and incompetent officers and could not say anything if they wanted to make anything long term. Those that did speak out were not renewed. When you take a leap of faith and put everything into a move then it is difficult to undo and so you stay where you are and try to make improvements and lead by example. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. At some point though it becomes a losing battle, and they decide enough is enough. There are some exceptional officers as well – but they are few and far between. I deliberately do not label any nationality as lazy or incompetent as there were all nationalities represented.

    I did not find any of the UK cops in Cayman to be racists, unlike the reception they receive at nearly every call where there is some kind of conflict, at which point they are threatened by someone who knows someone who will get them kicked off the Island. Where the stock answer is "you can’t do this I’m a Caymanian!" Well that’s as may be but they still get arrested if it is the appropriate course of action. I deliberately include this as no one ever said you can’t do this as I am a Jamaican /Bajan/ Bahamian etc. Kind of pointless threat really!

    You have commented on the education curriculum again. Well whose fault is it that the curriculum does not teach your other parents history. It is not the FCO or the British Govt. It is the education Dept that sets the curriculum based on the exams that they have decided to follow. And why should Cayman teach the history of another Country. It is like teaching Polish history in an English school because some kids have a polish mother/father. No! they attend an English school, live in England and have settled there – learn the history of your new home. Go to any other country and they will not teach another country’s history, as has been forced upon the UK education system. Go to Saudi Arabia and attend a mainstream Saudi school and see how far you would get trying to introduce English or Caymanian history into the curriculum. If you have a yearning to learn about the history of both parents then learn it from them or go to the country of birth of that parent and learn about it. You are right though – Britain is obsessed with history – mainly because we have a lot of it and if you don’t know history then you are doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

    You said

    research proves that when young people (especially males!) do not feel a connection with the land in which they reside the results can be very negative. We only need to examine the plight of ethnic minority males in the USA, UK and now Europe as well (btw, this goes beyond "Blacks" – Asians, Turkish, Eastern Europeans, "Gypsies", North African / Arab are all included.)

    That is all well and good, but how would it improve by teaching them their own ethnic history in their new country of residence. How does that make them connect any better? Do they want to integrate, does the new country want them to integrate or do they allow the establishment of ethnic societies within a sovereign nation. If the latter then why do countries spend so much time and effort setting exams for immigrants? Cayman has one as does the US. Most of the Caymanian youth that I met in the course of my work had absolutely no confusion or disconnection from the Cayman Islands. They knew and made it plain that they were Caymanian. That they were rastas or gangsta wannabes was their choice as it afforded them a certain lifestyle. They made life choices and followed through with them. Whether they were good or bad life choices was often down to poor parenting or just plain defiance. I know of many people born in Dog City or other areas who have done good things with their lives, just as I know of middle class and well to do kids who are wrapped up in a troubled life style. To blame it on history lessons at school is simplistic.

    You said

    I do realize that my opposition to the inclusion of UK police officers may appear conflicting considering that we are now a "diverse country", however, the main perpetrators of the type of serious crime that affects the nation as a whole is naturally committed by our local young men and of course by nationals of our neighbouring island nations as well.

    And that is why officers are recruited locally and from other nations and the UK contingent is quite small.

    With regard to some of your your core issues 

    This brings me to my overall point; considering all of the above – does it appear a sound decision to recruit on the level that has been done so many officers from such a jurisdiction that holds such a record to carry out duties in a place such as the Cayman Islands?

    How many do you think there are? As I previously said, how many suitable locals are there? They are certainly not kicking the door down. What jurisdictions can you think of recruiting from that do have fantastic records. Every country has the kind of abuses that you complain of and some much much worse. 

    The bottom line is this – the UK blatantly refuses to accept "outsiders" (even though the officers in question are born and raised Brits!) into the highest ranks of its organisation, granted given the results of aforementioned research they may be onto something there – however, they have no qualms whatsoever of pushing themselves onto a country/territory/community such as ours with absolutely no regard to the potential negative consequences.

    I was the outsider in Cayman. I was the Johnny come lately. I was the one not accepted by some.I didn’t cry about it I just carried on working.  I didn’t push myself onto anyone. I answered a recruiting campaign, was interviewed and accepted, based on my experience and service. I was recruited by a Caymanian. I did not do a bad job. 

    In keeping with the topic of the news article, the Commissioner is being selected by a local panel and the candidates were diverse. They have been shortlisted – no one is forcing anything on anyone. All of the candidates will likely have upset someone in their careers – that is the nature of policing. One or two will have been vicariously liable – does not make them bad people.

    • whodatis says:

      Dear Anonymous,

      Let me put it to you this way…

      Could you EVER imagine the day where the UK is predominantly governed, policed, judged, politically represented, taught, and economically led by a people / agenda other than what is known to be traditionally British?

      This was / is our reality here in the Cayman Islands.

      Can you not see how such a set of circumstances can have a detrimental effect on the psyche of a local population!?

      Can you not understand how out of this reality can easily be borne tremendous inequalities, prejudice, manipulation and unfair advantages?!

      Can you not understand how the now infamous "xenophobia" within these islands has come about?!

      Caymanians of mymother’s generation were initially known and loved for our "warm and friendly" nature – what happened?! The perceived "nature" of a people DOES NOT change in the time of one generation by chance!

          * For example, in middle school (and thousands of Caymanians can attest to this) – the song entitled "Football Crazy" was practically our anthem. "Football Crazy"!! That is a song born out of the deep, core, grassroots culture of British people – but it is a foreign concept to Caymanian children…yet we sang it everyday and it is to this day engraved in our memory banks! What about "Monkey Killed the Capt."? What about "Monsey’ Boat in the Sound?" Can you understand any of this whatsoever? Remember, the culture of your people is inherently "minor" in the UK…the REVERSE is / should be the reality here! *

      My issue with the UK is that is are well aware of the inevitability of such changes taking place in a society yet they have historically chosen to ignore these fundamental societal matters. This only goes to further my previous points of there being an orchestrated effort on part of the UK to "water down" the culture of the PEOPLE of countries such as ours – for to do so plays into the overall UK agenda!

      Of course I realize there had to exist some level of "subordination" seeing that we are in fact a UK dependent territory, however, the overall approach of the situation was not handled in an honest, considerate and honourable manner.

      Yes, the UK committed some of the most atrocious crimes against humanity in the last few hundred years, but such things cannot be simply swept under the rug and wished away. Why should modern day "British citizens" such as us Caymanians, members of the supposed leading nation of democracy, be subjected to such disrespect and trickery?

      Anonymous, do have ANY idea as to how many people in this country are afraid of their true ancestry?

      Do you have any idea of the paranoid rejection of ANYTHING African or non-Eurocentric that exists in this society? A society that at a minimum is 85% OBVIOUSLY "non-Eurocentric" (biologically/racially)!?

      Do you honestly think that this all came about simply by chance?

      Now ask yourself – can this possibly be a "healthy society"? Britain is well aware of and hangs onto their history for dear life – the history of their PEOPLE! We have not been afforded this luxury Anonymous. This results in a perfect opportunity for newcomers to "integrate" in this society and enjoy the beneficial residual effects of the circumstances – at times inadvertently, at others forcefully!

      Interestingly, my opinions tend to cause some degree of discomfort in this society. This is because they both tap on the door of the sub-conscious of many locals and tugs on the curtain of many "new-comers" and "integrated" in our society. Whereas many will deny they harbour such intentions – MOST are very comfortable with not rocking the boat and prefer to continue enjoying their residual benefits of the situation.

      People, maybe you included, can go on refusing to see the reality for what it is. Many will continually hang onto the official b.s. version of an explanation coming from the powers that be as to why things have been and are they way they are – but I simply cannot.

      I take reality for what it is. So long as I live my life this way and keep truth on my side I imagine a content existence, absent of confusion, denial and tomfoolery.

      As for the rest of you – continue sleeping if you like, but please bear this in mind – "sleep-walking" can be a VERY dangerous thing!

      **Note** The British lady who led us during the singing of the now infamous "Football Crazy" was one the nicest teachers / persons I have ever known. She along with her (British) husband was perhaps amongst the most beloved and appreciated of all teachers in the CI Govt public school system. Just goes to show – the issue IS NOT with the individual people but with the overall agenda.
       

      • anonymous says:

         Hi Whodatis,

        I absolutely do understandwhere you are coming from, better than you could know. I was in the same position – born mixed race, raised predominantly as one race but obviously looking different. I always called myself British – because how could I possibly be anything else. I came to realise that I only ever knew England and gradually accepted myself as English. During my military service I remarked to a senior soldier that I was surprised that my mixed race was never an issue – his reply with a very serious face was that he didn’t see a colour – just a soldier in green.

        What you say about your mothers Caymanian heritage as being warm and friendly is a wonderful thing. Most Caymanians of age I know are truly warm and wonderful people – and that is a heritage to grasp and hold onto – why have anything else. That is so far from the English culture, especially the current one. English culture is cold and unwelcoming. It has become the norm to not know your neighbours. This is what those that come to Cayman are leaving, finding the warmth and welcome that is your heritage.  That is why we find it easy to integrate, because you are a welcoming people. We don’t want to change that and for goodness sake don’t lose that for the sake of trying to find another identity from the other half of your genetic makeup, especially when you don’t know what that other country is like. Why would you feel disconnected from your mothers manners. Itis most definitely not because of anything engineered by a UK Govt. They just are not that good. Their information is not that good. Their planning is just awful.

        As for ‘Football crazy’ what can I say. You have been traumatised by possibly one of the worst songs in history – if it ever qualified as a song. I am sure that the teacher never taught it as a means of brainwashing or saw it as a form of child abuse. As someone who hates football I chose not to have anything to do with the sport, and maintain that to this day. I have to say that being taught the french rendition of Frère Jacques has not had quite the same effect on me as football crazy has on you, even though I never took French, liked France or wanted to go to France, and I have more of a historical reason to dislike the country than you can claim about the UK. At least the UK never went to war with Cayman – lots of times!

        The bottom line is this. UK cops do not come with a hidden social agenda, or as agents of the FCO. I never even met anyone from the FCO. They come as normal people, happy to be amongst a warm and loving people – for the most part. They do their jobs, becoming angry at incompetence and laziness. Initially there is an irritation about timekeeping or a lack of it but that soon goes as they accept Island time. Blaming us for a change in Caymanian youth culture is wrong as we have no effect on it. The youth will like what they like, just as I liked what I liked as a kid, anything that let me do what I wanted because as a kid I knew best. How I wished I had listened to my Mum. They really do know best!

        • whodatis says:

          Hi Anonymous,

          I have just read your last two entries.

          I would just like to say that I have truly appreciated this exchange of perspectives – that is what it is all about at the end of the day.

          Coming from opposite sides of the issue at hand, I guess an absolute agreement or understanding was never really on the cards.

          Regardless, I do feel that this little debate of ours involved two individuals forwarding their sincere views and opinions and this is the least and most that can be desired from one another.

          For the times where I came off as disrespectful, I apologize.

          You seem alright’ at the end of it all… :o)

          Take care and all the best,

          Whodatis

          • Anonymous says:

            From a completely different "anonymous" but someone with similar views and perspectives.

            The debate between you two was very interesting and informative. While i disagree with a lot of whodatis’ comments and views it is refreshing to see an honest, open and informative dialogue. It is exactly what this country needs to move forward and tackle the very real problems facing these islands today.

            I for one have had my opinion of Caymanians enhanced by such an intelligent (if sometimes misguided in my humble opinion) argument.

             

            I would only add that be careful of what you wish for……its only Caymanians holding back independance, the UK would breathe a sigh of relief if it was voted for in a referendum.

            🙂

      • anonymous says:

         Hi Whodatis,

        In addition, our culture is no longer traditionally what it was. The English cannot celebrate St George’s Day, fly the cross of St George or the Union Jack, our Union is fragmented by Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish assembles/parliaments. Our road signs are now multi lingual depending on where you live (polish, romanian, urdu). And our national dish is Curry. We were once proudly called Le Rosbifs (the roast beefs), which struck fear into the hearts of our French enemies. Hearing here come Le Curries doesn’t have quite the same ring!

      • Anonymous says:

        Whodatis:

        I will draw my friends "the British lady and her husband’s" attention to your post about the shock and horror inflicted upon your psyche by the "infamous Football Crazy" song. They will both be devastated. I suspect this rather banal (infamous? really?) song was chosen because it is an easy singalong etc. But, fairs fair, that does not negate the import of your post-very interesting.

  3. whodatis says:

    Wow!! I am impressed…finally a bit of dialogue on these very important issues in the Cayman Islands!

    Now, where and with whom do I begin?!

    Re: "Hi Whodatis,

    You make some conflicting points in your postings."

    I don’t know what fairy boat you flew in upon. The UK police service has NOT CHANGED in any notable way in regards to race/culture relations.

    I will consolidate my response to the majority of your entry to a simple suggestion; Google the following "racism uk police" – thereafter, click, read and explore the findings.

    The defence rests in regards to that particular matter.

    "Why would the history of the rest of the caribbean be taught if it had no direct bearing on Caymans history at that time."

    Are you kidding me!?

    Ok, should it be deemed acceptable that the histories of European nations take all dominance over regional Caribbean history? The history of MODERN CARIBBEAN PEOPLE (not Caribs and Arawaks as another poster referred to!) was only considered being introduced towards the late 90’s!

    Cayman is of course not 100% "Caymanian". I am a fine example of this reality as half of my ancestry is from another island nation – the same can be evidenced in a VAST sectorof Caymanians. This my friend, is just one reason why the teaching of the history of Caribbean people is so very important! Britain is obsessed with "history" and they analyze and dissect their ancestry, politics, wars and people to the greatest possible extent – I guess we were supposed to find an identity somewhere therein?!

    Research proves that when young people (especially males!) do not feel a connection with the land in which they reside the results can be very negative. We only need to examine the plight of ethnic minority males in the USA, UK and now Europe as well (btw, this goes beyond "Blacks" – Asians, Turkish, Eastern Europeans, "Gypsies", North African / Arab are all included.)

    Young Caymanian males more and more are feeling a great disconnect with their country. If one is not excelling at the upper echelons of academic achievement and if you are not staring down a future career as a successful lawyer or accountant then you are most likely tossed aside as "national garbage".

    As I reflect upon my past and examine what was happening around me I now realize that many of these young men that "fell off the bus" did so in their quest for an identity and true reality.

    I witnessed so many of them get caught up in the influences of reggae music, extreme versions of Rastafarianism, and at times blatantly racist ideologies. Now do not get me wrong – no one in this world loves reggae music or appreciates the core values of Rastafarianism more than myself – but if impressionable, young, and culturally lost individuals are submerged into this world, and add to this the powerful influence of marijuana, as we can all see the results can be disastrous! Regardless, we have to acknowledge that for many of these young men these avenues provide them, for the first time ever in most cases, with a cultural, historical and factual identity – albeit in a negative way! This in turn leads to the bridging of the spiritual / cultural gap and the results are often a downward spiral due to the accompanying negativity of such a lifestyle and mindset.

    Say what you say about Cayman NOW being a diverse nation – I’m sorry but my primary concern is with CAYMANIAN YOUTHS, furthermore, for those that feel that this concern does not affect you – remember that when that stray bullet hits your child, parent or loved one!

    When I was growing up Cayman was practically 80% "middle class" – that is an amazingly desirable statistic for any country – however, at the same time we had one of the highest prisoner per population ratios in the entire world! Something was seriously amiss!

    I do realize that my opposition to the inclusion of UK police officers may appear conflicting considering that we are now a "diverse country", however, the main perpetrators of the type of serious crime that affects the nation as a whole is naturally committed by our local young men and of course by nationals of our neighbouring island nations as well.

    My opinion, as demonstrated here together with my previous entries, is that the recruitment of the typical calibre of UK police officers does nothing but adds to the problems that already exist and does little else but pours fuel on the fire.

    You noted that independence will remove many of our benefits form the UK such as education. Actually, I had to pay full cost of "overseas student fees" (over £7,000.00 on school fees alone) while my truly British classmates were paying as little as £200.00 in some cases – dont get me wrong, I am not complaining, just simply clearing up a a common misconception. At best now a Caymanian can hope to pay a minimum of the "top up" UK univeristy fee.

    IN ANY EVENT, ALMOST EVERYONE HERE IS IGNORING THE CORE ISSUES OF MY ARGUMENT AGAINST THE RECRUITMENT OF UK POLICE OFFICERS – IS IT SO DIFFICULT TO REFUTE?

    Re: "…we had bloody West Indian history coming out our ears (effing Arawaks and Caribs from we could sit at a desk!…"

    Yes, I agree – we did learn about Arawaks and Caribs…however, how much history were we taught about modern day Caribbean people?! Its all fine and dandy to talk about the native "Caribbean" people that were all slaughtered by the all-loving and innocently "settling" Europeans…there are now a non-issue. What about the ignored history of 50% of the Caymanian people that existed at the time of Emancipation?! Don’t those people matter – especially seeing that the descendants of the "settlers" now make up a mere 20% (according to CIA World Factbook) of the local population – at best?

    Of course I realize why this was done – the history of the Caribbean is a very painful and ugly one – but to ignore it and expect its people to move forward successfully is nothing but ridiculous.

    Actually, it amazes me the level of ignorance that still exist today on the other side of the Atlantic in relation to the story of the Caribbean! I have met so many Brits and Europeans that have absolutely no idea as to how a person like myself ended up in the Caribbean and how their country achieved its current wealth and power as a result. They all know about Henry VII, King Louis, The Crusades, and The Victorian Age etc.but my story…not a clue! Hmmm..I wonder why??

    Re: "I like the idea of teaching Caymanian heritage in schools, now that would be an interesting class! Teach your young how to drink as much alcohol as possible, drive home drunk give the missus the odd slap cos your drunk…"

    I hear you – I guess you found your little comment amusing.

    However, personally my Caymanian father; has never touched a drop of alcohol, never driven home drunk (or even had a chance to for that matter), has NEVER laid a hand on my mother in 35 years of marriage, held a few jobs before owning his own business that now provides many jobs to Caymanians and foreigners alike, yes he has hired domestic workers but as far as I can recall all were fairly treated and yes they did assist in raising his kids as he and his wife was "bustin’ ass" as we say to keep the roof over his family’s heads and food on the table!

    Happy?

    By the way – what industrialised nation was it again that UNICEF (United Nations children’s organisation) branded as failing and raising the world’s "unhappiest children"?!

    Ahhh yes…the UNITED KINGDOM!!
     

  4. Anonymous says:

    Please, please take Berkow. He’s  self-centered, arrogant , truly a legend in his own mind.  But he does have some forward thinking ideas and will  modernize the police force. Bring your wallets!

  5. Anonymous says:

    ‘If you recall. Stuart Kernohan’s background was also a bit "dodgy" and we have paid for that, and will continue to pay for it’

    Would you like to substanciate your claim please? What has Kernohan done exactly? He has not been arrested, or charged for anything! He was the one who brought the SPIT team over in the first place!

  6. Only For Caymanians says:

    We all wonder sometimes just why the Governor, Mr. Stuart Jack always taken the "Worst" things that he can find in anypart of this world to serve in Cayman Islands as the Poorest of kinds of  characters as far as "Professional Individuals".

     Now I would like to ask,  Why does Mr: Jack choose a type of person who prescribes a drug to be better than a medication to serve as  "Commissioneer of Police" in Cayman Islands ?

       In my honest opinion, his trend of  "Good Governance" seems to continuallydecline as a Governor and contrinually cause more disasters in our Government as if our Government has not created enought disasters in our  Country now.

    Now…. will some of us (Caymanians) please rise up and lets get a handle on some of these irregularities in the Government and the Governor office, so that we can get things in the right prospective to be done UNLIKE the Governor and the Government.

      I am all for good  leadership and good governance and I think it is time for Cayumanians to stand on their STRONG feet and make sure these kinds of  IRREGULARITIES come to and  end and that things be done in the right prospective and continue to go so.

    Only For Caymanians

    • Anonymous says:

      Only for  Caymanians – sums up the attitude here in those 3 little words. Less than 50% of residents able to vote, hmm some democracy!

      I like the idea of teaching Caymanian heritage in schools, now that would be an interesing class!

      Teach your young how to drink as much alcohol as possible, drive home drunk give the missus the odd slap cos your drunk, how to engage in obscene acts on every dance floor in Cayman, how to get a job and either a) listen to your ipod all day (see CNN editorial a while back) or b) sit and do nothing at all as you know the work permit holders will take up the slack. Complain about the number of foreigners here while screaming at your own foreign domestic helper for not raising your own children properly.

      Then go to church on a Sunday!

      🙂

  7. Twyla M Vargas says:

    MAD MULLAH FOR TOP COP

    Check his profile, twisted hat,  three or four colars, rough rider look and a name that sends a message.  I think  this guy fits the description of what Cayman needs now to combat Crime.   A MAD MULLAH. YES!!!!

    • Anonymous says:

      Mass recruitment from the UK???? There has been no recruitment of police officers from the UK for almost 4 years. At that time there were 38 UK officers here….now there are 14, with at least 3 others that i know of due to leave imminently.

      Funny how when i’m at work most people that need the polices help seek out officers from the UK or the Bahamas as they tend to be (with a few notable exeptions) the only ones that have the first clue about basic police work. I wonder if the mass exodus of officers from overseas has any connection with the increase in crime here?

       

  8. Anonymous says:

    "The mass recruitment of UK officers into the RCIPS is a grotesquely flawed operation."  This is British territory.  Don’t forget it.  Britain is entitled to ensure the security of its territory and its citizens.  I wholly support this recruitment policy.

    • whodatis says:

      "This is British territory.  Don’t forget it.  Britain is entitled to ensure the security of its territory and its citizens.  I wholly support this recruitment policy."

      Thank you, Anonymous, for proving my point!

      Despite everything that I have highlighted in my entries – when the UK’s back is up against the wall the final desperate and despicable response is:

      "This is British territory!"

      Civilisation has advanced to points where governments and authorities realize that cultures and traditions must be acknowlegded and respected for there to exist properly functioning societies or even sub-groups within socities (as addressed, tough rather poorly in the UK).

      As a global leader in democracy and civility the UK claims to do whatever it can (within the mainland) to address these issues – however, when it comes to the "overseas territories" they play stupid and pretend to not know any better – and to add insult to injury they constantly throw their rejects, screw-ups or well-connected failures as our "esteemed" candidates!

      Anonymous, I don’t even take people like you seriously as you have clearly ignored the core issues of my argument – how could I possibly respect your opinion?

      To my fellow Caymanians, especially those that champion that "kumbuya / we-are-the-world" dribble, witness here the true substance and opinion of many in our midst.

      My eyes are wide open…I trust yours are as well.

      All the best Cayman,

      Whodatis

      • anonymous says:

        Hi Whodatis,

        You make some conflicting points in your postings. Clearly you do not like the UK influence over a UK Overseas Territory. You clearly want a completely Caymanianised system presumably for the protection of Caymanian culture which I have always found to have been undefined -and as you admit  so do many Caymanians. You do not like the "We are the World system" which presumably means you do not respect the diversity of Cayman and yet state that 

        Civilisation has advanced to points where governments and authorities realize that cultures and traditions must be acknowlegded and respected for there to exist properly functioning societies or even sub-groups within socities.

        Is this not true for the Cayman of today? Are there not sub groups and traditions within Cayman that need protecting and policing. You claim that the UK police are branded institutionally racist – a term coined by Lord McPherson after the Lawrence enquiry. A term that has been acknowledged by the Trevor Phillips of the Commission for Racial Equality as being no longer appropriate after the progress made by the Met(Jan 2009). Jack Straw also acknowledged it at the same time.

        This was given as a label as the Met Leadership of the time apparently failed to understand and address the needs of ethnic minorities – mainly because the service was not diverse enough to understand the needs of the ethnic minorities. By recruiting ethnic minority officers that understanding started to be shared and so instead of treating all victims equally and the same – their individual needs were met.

        Cayman of today is in a similar position – a society made up of different cultures and nationalities. If all the cops are Caymanian how can they provide a service according to the needs of the society they are policing? This was the finding of the enquiry from whom you like to quote. So if that is the case why should there not be police officers from the countries represented in society. Add to that the fact that legal recourse is through the Privy Council – why should there not be UK representation in the system? The Lawrence enquiry was years ago – before many of the UK officers were even in the police – why must you continue to ignore the progress made and pour insult on them. The cops I know are not racist – just fed up with those who break the law. My qualifications for these comments are the fact that I was an ethnic minority officer who served for many years. I enjoyed my service and refused to join the BPA (Black Police Association) on its formation on the grounds that I was already fairy represented by the Police Federation. You see I wasn’t a Black Police Officer – I was a Police Officer. The BPA continues to use the term institutional racism as it suits many of their members’ law suits such as Ali Desai – himself a proponent of the blame and sue culture.

        Another point is that there are simply not the numbers of suitably qualified individuals to recruit. If it were that simple then there would be no need to recruit from abroad. Simply being a willing volunteer does not make a person suitable. I know for a fact that many have been recruited that cannot meet the entrance criteria such as the fitness test. I know of officers who cannot take a basic statement and shy away at every opportunity, the slack was mostly taken up by UK and Canadian officers. It is not just a question of training but of basic literacy – that is not a police problem but a Societal one.

        You also stated

        As children we were taught via schools that our No. 1 identity was "Her Majesty"!? Absolutely NO HISTORY of the Caribbean was EVER TAUGHT in the public school curriculum. There was an obsession about respecting and praising "The Queen" and of course the next-to-God "Governor" whenever he took it upon himself to make a school visit. When I arrived in the UK and discussed this with my new British classmates and friends they looked at me as if I was crazy – as they had NEVER experienced such things! It was then that I began to realize that there exists a concerted effort to brainwash the "colonies" into feeling even more "British" than the Brits themselves!

        You were presumably taught the history of Cayman which is a way of preserving traditions and culture. The original settlers came from the UK so teaching children about the original settlers and where they came from was a way of preserving  and understanding where they came from. Presumably the history of slavery and its wrongs was taught too. As well as Caymans relationship with Jamaica. Did this not address the history of those settlers. Why would the history of the rest of the caribbean be taught if it had no direct bearing on Caymans history at that time. Now it should be different, with the ease with which people can travel and migrate. Now there may be a need to teach about other cultures – but does this not go against your argument that Caymanian culture is unknown by many as it is. You were taught your history and you are not happy about it. Now you want everyone else’s history to be taught at the expense of your own. As it is children in the UK are taught about the Queen and if ever she visits then it is the biggest affair – just as it would be in Cayman. 

        You said

        I have outlined my reasons, supported by facts, as to why it was a horrible idea from its inception and as illustrated by research findings should be brought to a grinding halt! If you, or anyone else for that matter, are able to successfully refute or challenge my comments I will gladly welcome the debate.

        I am not someone who has previously commented on your postings, but in answer I will say that as far as I am aware there has not been any research into the effects of the hiring of UK officers by the RCIP. No analysis has been undertaken by either Govt or the RCIP, (apart from statistical analysis of work force breakdown). There has never been any socio-economic impact study conducted in Cayman. Plenty of marl road talk but no study.

        Finally, you will likely have your wish for the word is out. UK and Canadian officers who have served and left have spread the word that Cayman is not the place to work. So have no worry there will soon not be any UK officers left or very very few. When the remaining expat officers also leave because of the uncertainty of rollover then you will truly have the police service you deserve, whatever it may be. And before you come back with the retort that Cayman is better off without me then let me just say this – I never received a complaint, never lost a court case and was respected within the service. Not all can say that. Were it not for personal reasons I would still be serving. If independence is your thing then I say good luck to you, but don’t then moan when privilegesthat were  afforded to you in the UK, such as education, are no longer there for future generations. Remember  without those privileges your eyes would not be as open as they are today. I

        • Anonymous says:

          "Hi Whodatis".

          A robust response to whodatis! He/she (Whodatis) can’t have been in the public school system (unless he/she was asleep/behaving atrociously) in the last 35 years. I won’t comment on the other stuff in this thoughtful post but we had bloody West Indian history coming out our ears (effing Arawaks and Caribs from we could sit at a desk!) and it was not deferential to "Her Majesty". She was an irrelevance although her subjects 200 years before were a bunch of racist thugs that we were saved from by Paul Bogle, Gordon. Marcus Garvey, Eric Williams (all good solid Caymanian sons of the soil!!!) and others!! And of course Rex Nettleford who articulated for us all why Whitey was such an abomination. I am sorry. Whodatis either was not in our public school system post 1970 or he/she has a political/social agenda he/she wishes to push. "Her Majesty" worship is total horse manure. But he/she is right on one thing. We did treat the Governor of the day with politeness and deference when he came around our classes. That was considered Caymanian good manners in those days.

          How terribly silly and misguided we were.

  9. Anonymous says:

    This whole thing would be a  comedy of errors if it wasn’t so scary…and who came up with this short list?   Caymanians, I presume.  And who will interview these jokers?  Caymanians. I presume.

    Are we so backward and ignorant and inefficient that we can’t do background checks on candidates for the highest law enforcement position in the law?  We have to depend on the press to flush all this out?  I am shaking in my boots, quivering like jelly. sweating gobs of sweat at what Cayman has come to.

  10. Anonymous says:

    Can  I suggest that a more suitable headline for your story would have been "Female Officer Loses Suit But Gets $1M". In stead, you headline the accused who was seemingly exonerated. Let me guess now whether the people who runthis site are females or males?

    CNS: The only reason this story is of interest in the Cayman Islands is because the man in question is a candidate for the most senior police position.

  11. Twyla M Vargas says:

    THERE IS NO PERFECT COMMISSIONER

    If we are looking to pick  the perfect TOP COP we may pick and pick till we end up with someone we do not want.

    No one is perfect, and we all have a skeleton in our closets hiding, it is only left for exposure.  So I say sometimes it is best to stick with the foolishness we know.   I would support any Top Cop, who is a hard worker and will listen to the people. Combat Crime, Get the Guns Off the streets of Cayman,  after all reading all of the doo,s and dont,s  and dont heed the voice of the people is unwise.  A cop who  searches for the truth of the outside and inside of the Police Force,  Not being influenced or getting involved with politics;  furthermore he would be a fool to mess up after reading all of the comments.

  12. Anonymous says:

    We need the woman.  Maybe, she can make some headway on that Bill for women.  Get us signed up with CEDAW.  Too bad she can’t run for office.

    As for the racism, I’m sick and tired of hearing black people whining about white people.  We are Caymanians and we are mixed.  So Caymanians stop the divisions before we end up like the US.

  13. Anonymous says:

    DEREK HAINES FOR MLA

    Well if they will not let him be the Commissioner of Police for which the MAJORITY of CAYMANIANS and EXPATS living here alike feel that he is the right man for the job…then I say you need to run for MLA Mr. Haines.  You can still clean up the streets and our island and have a little more power to do so.  Hopefully you would get in as a Minister.  I would definately vote for you.

    I thought that the government worked for the wishes of the people and what made them feel safe and happy.  It is obvious from all the letters that many people support Mr. Haines.  That has to go a long way here.  That has to count for something.  If you are reading this anyone on that committee or his Excellency the Governor.  YOU NEED DEREK HAINES back on that list.  This government has already pushed us over and refused to listen to us.  Now is time for them to at least do one good deed before they are voted out.  PUT MR HAINES IN to clean up the mess you all started.

  14. Anonymous says:

    Thank you CNS for keeping on top of all of this..Otherwise, how would we know?

  15. anonymous says:

    "As far as the officer(s) being Racist they are very clever on hiding the shady spots in their background.  Need I elobrate?"

    Yes please do ELABORATE it sounds like you have a really intelligent contribution to make.

  16. Anonymous says:

    To the poster who said the UK …obviously you sound like you British too!

    You also come across as being RACIST. Maybe you should pack up and leave too! 

    As far as the officer(s) being Racist they are very clever on hiding the shady spots in their background.  Need I elobrate?

    You must also remember that not only Caymanians commit crimes here.

    Bodden is more Caymanian than the British so called cop(s) that they bring here!!

     

    • Anonymous says:

      All this bile and vitriol about racism/British cops/need for born Caymanians etc in the Police.

      Hello! Don’t you remember we celebrated our very first Caymanian Police Commissioner a few years back-his name was Buel Braggs. Born Caymanian-probably 5th or 6th or 10th or whatever generation some of the posters to this and other sites like to go on about. Very nice person. Where was he for about two weeks after Ivan (when Haines did his Rambo stuff with his son which he made sure got publicity in the UK press). Why was Buel retired two years early on massive pension benefits -all of us know this happened? Oh well, I guess it was just because he was a Caymanian. It could never ever have anything to do with competence issues, could it?

      • whodatis says:

        Re: "All this bile and vitriol…"

        I’m sorry but your example of the capabilities, or lack thereof, of one Caymanian Commissioner does not put even a dent into the great steel wall of glaringly obvious evidence that the mass recruitment of UK officers into theRCIPS is a grotesquely flawed operation.

        I have outlined my reasons, supported by facts, as to why it was a horrible idea from its inception and as illustrated by research findings should be brought to a grinding halt!

        If you, or anyone else for that matter, are able to successfully refute or challenge my comments I will gladly welcome the debate.

        Please explain to me how, in light of all that I have outlined, the continuation of the hiring of UK police officers at such high numbers is a good idea for the Cayman Islands?

        (Note** This issue would be so much simpler if the UK police service itself was not in fact "institutionally racist", for had it not been, there would currently exist a plethora of better suited "culturally-connected" UK police candidates for countries like ours to choose from at times like this. But, as it goes – the UK still rams this philosophy of "be good, humble, obedient, loyal little British subjects out there in the Caribbean – we will love you and take care of you as a result"! )

        There is such a vast disconnect between the average grassroots Caymanian and the supposed culture, history, and essence as to what is a "Caymanian".

        Then people wonder why so many of our local young men are falling off the bus!?

        As children we were taught via schools that our No. 1 identity was "Her Majesty"!? Absolutely NO HISTORY of the Caribbean was EVER TAUGHT in the public school curriculum. There was an obsession about respecting and praising "The Queen" and of course the next-to-God "Governor" whenever he took it upon himself to make a school visit. When I arrived in the UK and discussed this with my new British classmates and friends they looked at me as if I was crazy – as they had NEVER experienced such things! It was then that I began to realize that there exists a concerted effort to brainwash the "colonies" into feeling even more "British" than the Brits themselves!

        Orchestrated INFERIORITY COMPLEX anyone?!

        Sadly, to this very day there are SO MANY Caymanians that suffer from a severe case of this inferiority complex without even realising – yet this is the very thing that contributes the most to our downfall within our own country!

        Not only has this complex been engraved into our psyche – there has also been severe damage inflicted into the mindset of our youths. I am very close to a high school teacher and she told me that whenever she asks her students the question "What is Caymanian culture?", she can practically hear a pin drop! I know many readers may not care to understand the great significance of this dilemma, and to people such as yourself I would like to say – please pack your bags and find yourself on the next thing smoking outta here!!

        For those of you who may be thinking I am going off on a tangent, let me bring it back to Square 1 for you…this policing issue is simply part and parcel of the brain-washing agenda.

        I will (sarcastically) give the UK some credit however, as it worked WONDERS for them with our previous generations! Many arrived here, were treated like Gods and in the process trampled all over their lovely, "warm and friendly" hosts!

        Its a new day in the Cayman Islands…COME FAIR OR LEAVE SQUARE!

         

        **Actually, "racism" may or may not be the fitting term to attach to these domestic issues…however on many occassions I am sure elements of racism are at play. However, there has most definitely and undeniably been an overwhelming attitude of "superiority" pointed in the direction of Caymanians and their country by the relocated citizens of Great Britain. To debate the difference between the two philosophies is too much of a hair-splitting exercise for me to take seriously.**

  17. Anonymous says:

    Derek Haines – ‘having taken us safely through the aftermath of ivan’. I do not agree, the aftermath of hurricane Ivan was a tribute to the people of Cayman and the helping each other spirit (which since seems to have dwindled). Of course there were looters and some disorder, but Derek Haines was no hero. The heroes were the people that were NOT mentioned because they have no recognition or cronies in government.

    I am glad he is not short listed. He has a few staunch rugby club ‘drinking’ supporters, but that is all.

  18. Anonymous says:

    Derek Haines

     

    Obiviously the best candidate for the job.

  19. Anonymous says:

    Well, there doesn’t seem to be anything wrong with three of the candidates listed here, and the woman seems pretty good. As for Brunsrom – he is what he is, definitely controversial but people agree with him or not, no skeletons in his closet. I happen to think he’d be good here. Maybe he’d slow down the death rate on the roads.

  20. Anonymous says:

    To the last wrier who says "is it me or do they seem dodgy"? No, of course it’s not you.  Their backgrounds are being picked through by CNS and anything negative they can find served to you so that you will come to that conclusion (even if they have the wrong guy by the same name it would seem). This means that whoever they pick will be able to referred to by the media as a "controversial choice".

  21. Anonymous says:

    I completely agree that Derek Haines would be an ideal candidate, but then, that would make sense, & this is Cayman 🙁

  22. Anonymous says:

    If you recall. Stuart Kernohan’s background was also a bit "dodgy" and we have paid for that, and will continue to pay for it.  Our Commissioner of Police needs to be squeeky clean, and be seen to be squeeky clean.  Our police have enough image problems and trust problems as it is.

    It is a very sad day when we scraping the bottom of the barrel like this.

  23. Anonymous says:

    OK, is it me or does it not seem that all these candidates have adistinctly ‘dodgy’ background?   It seems to me that the only potential candidates for this position that we hear about, all either seem to be another country’s rejects or someone with a controversial background/history?

     

     

  24. Anonymous says:

    what happened to derek haines?? i thought he was on the shortlist? surely he would be better than any of those that are named in this article – he certainly has experience of Cayman at its best & at its worst having taken us safely through the aftermath of ivan!

  25. Anonymous says:

    I will agree with this poster…Is anyone tied of the. I am very pleased to see that some investigating into their background is more thorough than when Kernohan was hired!

    I am a Caymanian and I don’t see why we don’t have one of our own that can fill this post! But again which one? They all have the years of experience in the service BUT SEEM TO BE TOO LAID-BACK!!

    Why do we have to run and grab every "so called high ranking officer from the UK, they ALL have dark clouds hanging over their heads."  The British cops that we have here now are VERY RACIST, and they too should be packed up baggage and all and sent back home!!

    • Anonymous says:

      To the poster who said the UK officers are racist.  Racism comes in many forms – including racism against those who are not natives of your country but are in your country working.  If you say they should go home as a job lot then all you are doing is being racist yourself.  Do you really think that a racist officer – by which I read you as saying someone who is prejudiced against black people – you don’t define it in your post so I am assuming that is what is meant – would come to Cayman?  If you didn’t like black people and were prejudiced and racist why would you volunteer to serve in Cayman?  It may be that the officers have got fed up with ignorance and racism towards them or it is perceived by those who are arrested by them that they are targetting them as Caymanians when in fact they are being targetted because offences are being committed.    As to why no Caymanian can fill it there is no-one who is senior enough.  Chief Superintendent Bodden is not Caymanian (he is of Jamaican heritage) in any event, which would defeat the poster’s argument and Ennis has declined the post.  Therefore you need someone who has tactical and operational control of the police and has experience of such.  You cannot just say promote someone and they will know how – that is why the job has had to be filled from off island.  – lack of experience within the locals.  I would like to say here that the slurs of racism are too easily levelled and sometimes one should look close to home as to whether that is indeed  criticism that can be levelled at a group of people generally.

      • whodatis says:

        Dear Anonymous,

        I am not going to get into a debate as to whether or not particular or individual UK officers are racist or not.

        However, I will outline a few facts:

        • The UK police service has been branded as "institutionally racist" by one of the most senior judges in the land
        • Officers from all ethnic minority groups in the UK police service (not just "Blacks") have continually protested about their working conditions and at times career sabotage.
        • The leaders (some with 15-20 years of service) of UK Police Ethnic Minority Organisation has become so disheartened by the reality of their plight that they have gone on record to discourage any ethnic minorty citizen of the UK from considering a serious, long-lasting career in the service.
        • It has been evidenced time and again that it is next to impossible for any "non-White" serving officer to advance to the top level/s of the UK police service.
        • All research on the matter suggests that any community is best policed by its own members (or of course those nearest to it – meaning "culturally"). A "born Caymanian" is not what I am necessarily suggesting. (I have spent time in the UK – and trust me…the respective cultures of the two nations could not be more opposed. Our political affiliation is just that – political!)
        • The UK continually pretends to not "know any better" and plunders forward with a business-as-usual approach when addressing these very serious issues within the "colonies" – a gross hypocrisy that sickens me to my deepest fibre.
        • Statistically, young men from ethnic minority groups in the UK suffer from what is now widely accepted as unfair police profiling.

        This brings me to my overall point; considering all of the above – does it appear a sound decision to recruit on the level that has been done so many officers from such a jurisdiction that holds such a record to carry out duties in a place such as the Cayman Islands?

        To be branded as "institutionally racist" and with so many long-serving ethnic minority officers calling "foul" suggests to me that a "culture" exists within that organisation that we here in the Cayman Islands should be avoiding like the plague! We are not talking about recruiting construction workers here…we are talking about hiring members of our police force – that is a very serious thing!

        I am not making any of this up – it is what it is.

        http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world-news/uk-police-still-institutionally-racist-says-report_100155671.html

        The bottom line is this – the UK blatantly refuses to accept "outsiders" (even though the officers in question are born and raised Brits!) into the highest ranks of its organisation, granted given the results of aforementioned research they may be onto something there – however, they have no qualms whatsoever of pushing themselves onto a country/territory/community such as ours with absolutely no regard to the potential negative consequences.

  26. whodatis says:

    Is anyone else tired of the endless proposition of nutjobs, whackos, screw-ups and rejects of the UK / world’s policing population to our beloved Cayman Islands?!

    Furthermore, a community is best policed by its own members…this has been clearly proven by all research reports on the matter.

    The point is that hardly, if any at all, of these non-Caymanian candidates take us seriously.

    They DO NOT know us nor do they understand our culture!

    For goodness sakes, the UK in the last decade has been running circles around itself to hire more officers from "ethnic minority" communities because there is such a cultural gap (especially in the bigger cities – London/Birmingham) between police officers and the general public.

    Hello!?

    Does anyone else here realize that we are a Caribbean nation born out of the typical Caribbean historical events and painful blend of races / people?!

    People like ourselves (Caribbean) who are actually UK-born and resident Brits catch hell in the UK from the police…yet we are quick to draft them in here and to add to the rum punch – they (recruiting bodies) act as if "racial sensitivity" is not a MAJOR issue within the judicially / officially branded "INSTITUTIONALLY RACIST" police service.

    This one major hypocrisy within the "empire" that greatly concerns me…socio-political advances and concerns are researched and enacted within the mainland – however, it is business as usual in the "colonies"!

    I personally experienced unfair and disrespectful treatment from UK police services FAR too often for it to be a mere coincidence.

    (For the record – I have never been arrested, however, I was sure treated as an automatic suspect on every single "random" interaction with the UK police.)

    **I trust my comment will be approved on this occasion.**

    • Anonymous says:

      I’m wondering if someone mistakenly picked up the scrap list instead of the short list.