Top cop says fifteen individuals fuelling gun crime

| 01/10/2009

(CNS): The new commissioner of police has said that the recent spate of gun crime has been fuelled by tit for tat shootings that are being carried out by around fifteen individuals, who were known to the police and who he says have access to guns. David Baines promised an audience of Chamber members on Wednesday that he and his officers were working very hard to remove these individuals from the streets. He said many of the roadblocks that people complain about were helping to contain the movement of these gang members, but he made no apology for picking up drunk drivers in them as well.

He said that he was also in discussions with the governor and the Attorney General’s Office about changing the law to enable better protection for witnesses and that he wanted to remove the right to jury trials in some instances to prevent possible tampering. Baines said that he understood these people were linked to other unsolved murders and shootings, some of which they had been tried for but had walked away free because of issues over witnesses, juries and evidence

Baines also lamented the fact that there were still no witnesses coming forward from the recent shooting at the Next Level nightclub, where he said 150 people were present but not one person was willing to say what they saw.

Facing criticisms that his officers were only interested in issuing traffic tickets, he said that drivers should not assume roadblocks were about collecting revenue for government coffers, but those road blocks were yielding firearms and drugs as well as controlling the movement of the criminal element and gang members. However, whether someone dies as a result of the acts of a gunman or a drunk driver, that is still one death we should not have, he said, and therefore  officers would prosecute those who came through road blocks under the influence.

“Drinking and driving is almost endemic here and we are not going to ignore it,” he added.

Baines told the audience that, while the community perceived violent crime to be on the increase, in reality assaults were down significantly. The crime that was on the increase was acquisitive burglary, which would be expected in a period of economic downturn. He said that there had been six murders this year, the same as last year, but he admitted, given the population level, it was disproportionally high — higher than most US states.

Touching on improvements he planned for the service, especially in areas of intelligence, he said there was a pressing need to restore the community’s trust in the RCIPS’ ability to handle intelligence and evidence. He said that there were systems failures and overloads in areas such as scenes of crime and other specialisms within the RCIPS, but he also said there was incompetence in the force and that was down to training.

Criticising the structure of the RCIPS, Baines stated that he felt the service was too hierarchical and he intended to spread some of the authority downwards and have police on the ground make more decisions.

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  1. West Bay HYPOCRITS says:

    I have just driven up West Bay Road – three cars coming from West Bay flashed their lights to warn of a police check.  Stop moaning about crime in West Bay if you are going to undermine attempts to prevent crime.

  2. Anonymouse says:

    I must respectfully disagree with the Commisioner. Trial by Jury is in place to protect society from itself. Societies are better able to protect themselves from criminals than from governments. Protection from the later requires a lot more blood, sweat & tears than a few road blocks. One ‘bent’ judge can do more damage than a ‘bent’ jury. Or even 15 gunmen. Remember that we got to this jurisprudential position by deciding, in Western society, that inapropriate convictions are worse than inapropriate exonerations, hence the trial by a jury of our peers rather than trial by an apointed overlord. We trust ourselves more than we trust those who think they know what is best for us. A people who will not stand up for themselves are destined to be ruled, whetherby gunmen or judges depends on who we let make the choice for us.

    • Anonymous says:

      Also with respect I must disagree with you and agree with the Commissioner. I understand and appreciate your views on the values of the jury system. However I must remind anyone interested that a gang of thugs that is able to intimidate both witnesses and juries trumps both bent judges and bent juries in terms of the damage that they can do to a society. What we are facing at the moment is not the potential for inappropriate convictions, but rather the reality of a complete absence of any possibililty of prosecution of these criminals. The possibility of a bent judge seems to me to be an acceptable risk.

      I would like to suggest that we pass legislation to create special courts for persons accused of violent crimes, the use of which would be at the discretion of the Solicitor General. These special courts would not involve juries and would be presided over by a senior specialist judge experienced in criminal cases and brought into Cayman from outside, again to minimise the possibility of intimidation. I would suggest that a panel of 10 or 12 such judges could be created to ensure that it was not the same judge for each case.  

      I would also like to suggest that our legislation should be amended, firstly to make the penalties for gun crime much more harsh than they are at the moment, and secondly to permit the police to be much more intrusive into the lives of persons suspected of gang, gun related or other violent activities. I would also like to suggest thatelectronic tagging should be authorised for anyone charged with a violent crime who is awaiting trial, as well as any person who has been released from prison following a sentence for committing a violent crime – 5 years would probably be sufficient.

      If the above is not sufficient to restore order to our streets then perhaps we should think of creating something more draconian – a Cayman Court of Star Chamber – a specialist inquisitorial judicial tribunal producing decisions within 15 days of arrest with no appeal permitted. We are not quite there yet in terms of need but we are certainly heading in that direction.

      • Lachlan MacTavish says:

        A very large and real problem in Cayman, we are a "small town". Everyone knows who the guy is who drives the new BMWWW who doesn’t have a job and you know what he does. The bad guys love to show people their guns. People see them but don’t call the police because they know the bad guys will "get" them. Who wants to sit on a jury and say "guilty" when the bad guys can get you. 

        Violent crime is a very real and sad issue in Cayman and it must be stopped. I agree with The Commissioner, trial by judge. The established violent element in Cayman will "get to everyone" and stop justice.

        The Commissioner needs all support and tools we can give him. Get rid of this element now. 

        • Anonymouse says:

          Perhaps, Mr. MacTavich, since you aparently know who these people are, you would name them to the police? Or would you rather see the Cayman Islands become a banana republic where accused criminals are grabed by ‘enforcement squads’ and ‘punshed’ as the secret judges see fit?

          • Lachlan MacTavish says:

            No….don’t know who the criminals are…..but because of the MarlRoad is what it is their are people who know them…see them…could call the police. But I understand why they don’t and why they don’t want to serve on jury. The     bad guys     will do them harm and their families and they live on a small island and have no where to go.  Your  infers that we have incompetent correct judges. I don’t know how long you have lived in Cayman, during my 33 years which ended in 2003/4 Cayman never experienced the violence and type of crime that is growing. You don’t become a banana rep at the drop of a hat and you are presuming that the Commissioner will not be able to control the situation. 

            Clean up crime and Cayman….no one will talk…..there fore the police and judicial system need the tools to take care of this.

            • Anonymous says:

              Cayman is a different place now than it was in 2003/4. My first visit to Cayman was in the early 1990s and I remember proudly telling my visitor friends about Cayman’s intolerance toward violence and especially guns. Seems like a long time ago…gun smuggling and gun sales also need to be examined.

              When the US had the gangster problems in the1920s &1930s they brought in special armed officers to hunt down the gun men. Others were convicted on that evasion charges and went to prison. Laws were changed and stiffened and federal law enforcement trumped possible bent local law enforcement.

              When the public will gets strong enough things will change. I thought the Estella murder would galvanize the public to demand change but things seem to have remained largely the same.

  3. Anonymous says:

    Way back in the 1980s, we teachers spoke about gangs in the schools. We were jumped on by the Education Department and Portfolio-especially Lucille Seymour, Lillian Archer and Oswel Rankine. Such things didn’t exist in Cayman, they explained, we were just washing our dirty linen in public as an excuse for not disciplining them properly.

    We also said that 5% of the students were giving us 95% of the serious (ie violent, totally disruptive) problems (a pretty favourable towards Caymanian students statistic when you think about it). Again, we were just "trouble making" and "agitating" with our PTAs to embarrass the Portfolio (no one ever explained why we would want to do this).

    Were they Caymanian? Yes, if you mean born in Cayman and raised here. One of our major criminals in Northward (murder, drugs, gangs etc) has a Jamaican father, and Caymanian mother who was herself part of a well known Bajan family with a street named after her family. Interestingly, many were of mixed parentage (JA/C, C/Honduran etc) but nearly all were born here and very many of them nearly 30 years later are in Northward. Sometimes they get out for a while but then a few months later they are back in again.

    Every single one of the local muderers is known to us teachers-every single one. Is there a common factor in it all? Maybe. They all have/had shitty homelifes, particularly with absent or violent fathers, and they all had the crap beaten out of them either by the mother or whatever male was in the home at the time. Yet this was the advice given us by the Education Dept luminaries mentioned above. More corporal punishment, it’s our culture.

    Note, this post is only about males. I could write about our females too, but that would be a different post.

  4. Cassandra says:

    How much do you reckon you could sell the Brac for?  Is this asset not the answer to our financial woes? 

  5. stupid fool says:

    I wonder if these people realize who just became the Deputy LoGB and where she from?


    CAYMAN BRAC – Go Juliana



    • Anonymous says:

      Your post matches your moniker. Because she is from CYB that is a good thing?! How about the quality of the person?  

      • Anonymous says:

        Hear, hear! We will all be watching the performance.

      • Anonymous says:

        I have one thing against Juliana OConnor:



        If so…

        Would that speak alot about her character and religious tolerance?


        From a Concern Caymanian

  6. Thankful says:

    I am curious to know or we should try and dig a bit deeper on the following and I wonder if Comm. Baines would not answering the following questions:

    1) Are we to assume that these identified criminals are all Caymanians?

    2) Assuming the answer to the above question is true, is the RCIPS explicitly saying that there are no non-caymanians (ie work permit holders or visitors) involved with criminal activity and that they do not actively entertain this angle in their investigation?  I remind people of the case a couple of years ago that involved a jamaican visitor visiting his mother and then committing burglaries while here.  This was proven by the fingerprints found at the crimes.

    3) What is the RCIPS doing to add pressure to the lives of these identified criminals especially when crimes happen?

    4) When should we expect results?

    I do want to express thanks to the Comm. for this work so far on this matter.  I do believe this is the first the public has heard concrete numbers.  I believe that this indicates covert missions to first identify the issues (culprits).  I suspect the next stage will be (and I suspect has started) to monitor these criminals with the aim being to catch them "red-handed" or certainly produce the evidence that ultimately leads to convictions.

    I also follow the comm. in his reasonings for the overt activities such as the roadblocks being carried out by the RCIPS.  However, I would like these to be stepped up a notch.  These overt missions has to apply real pressure to these criminals.  It should be so visible and "strong" in application that it is seen as a deterrent to criminal wannabees and those who otherwise support or entertain getting involved with criminal activity.

    Ultimately…we need results now sir.

    • Cassandra says:

      A pair of binoculars and a "gangsta" funeral is probably pretty much all one needs to work out who the Comm. is talking about.

  7. Sarasue Bracka says:


  8. whodatis says:


    This is the message that needs to be delivered to and understood by our local "bad boys".

    The sad reality of Cayman today is that the young men that are involving themselves in this way of life are being killed off like flies.

    To add insult to this fatal injury is the FACT that not many people are willing to assist the relevant authorities or testify in a court of law in regards to these matters.

    One of the murder victims of this year was a relative of mine. When we learned of his death he were of course shocked and saddened – but honestly, not very surprised. Simply because we all knew what type of lifestyle he was into.

    Like many other murder victims in this country, not many people are willing to come forward and help the RCIPS with theirinvestigations.

    Are we disappointed – of course.

    Are we surprised – hell no!

    Are we angry about it? I can only speak for myself, and I personally am not.

    For the most part we all understood what is what – and I for one was not very optimistic of members of the public coming forward with information even though literally hundreds of people were present at his murder scene.

    Cayman is a very small place, and not many of us are willing to take the stand and testify against someone who killed another that was also involved in whatever the accused was into. Bottom line.

    I honestly cannot blame them.

    We all have lives to live and loved ones to worry about. We all know that the vast majority of loved ones that are murdered in the Cayman Islands are not much "better" than the ones that did the actual killing. It is a very harsh thing to say but this is the truth. It is simply a matter of they got ours before ours got them.

    It is with great conflict that I pen these words, and I trust that my extended family members will see where I am coming from but this is the harsh reality of Cayman today.

    So, to the "bad man dem" of Cayman today – I sincerely hope that you fully understand the reality surrounding your choices in this life.

    If someone happens to blow your head off – even if in the middle of a crowded street or nightclub – DO NOT expect much sympathy, vengeance, or follow up upon your sudden passing.

    Your life’s legacy will simply become nothing but another Caymanian statistic – blowing in the wind.

    Think about it … hard!!



    • Whodatis, you are so right on, yes we all have some bad ones in our family or community, but we must be honest and face the facts, no one can stop these crimes but us. We must step up to the plate and report what we see and know, it can be done annonymously, lets get rid of these gangsta mentality thugs. if its notoriety you are looking for, well you wont know about the headlines, only your family or another family that you have gunned down or allowed to let it happen. So do I feel sorry when I hear that one of you are gone, NO, I dont, for the family you left behind maybe.  Think clear before you screw up.   Mr Baines give  them all hell to grind.

    • no fixed address says:

       re: whodatis 

      On the surface your post reads as sincere and heartfelt. However after rereading it, I see it more as cowardly. 

      Near the bottom of the post you state this: 

      "So, to the "bad man dem" of Cayman today – I sincerely hope that you fully understand the reality surrounding your choices in this life."

      And now I ask- do you fully understand the reality surrounding your choices of not reporting what you know, have known etc ("Simply because we all knew what type of lifestyle he was into."). You are contributing to this mess by being silent. Your silence allows the crime to go on. Your lack of courage to stand up and testify against the criminal element- all of these are choices you make daily- and yet you have the gall to call out the ‘bad man dem’ about their choices?

      Take a long hard look in the mirror tomorrow and realize that yourself and 14 others likely know who the 15 are that the commissioner refers to. And you CAN do something about it, fulfill your civic duty. 

      Call crimestoppers. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. 

      It is YOUR choice- whatcha goin’ do?

      • whodatis says:

        Re: No Fixed Address,

        We are about to embark on a merry-go-round ride here.

        Your interpretation of and offered suggestions to my earlier post are flawed in my opinion.

        Yes, we all had some level of suspicion that this person was not living "right". However, none of us had any details of any actual committed crimes either. Its not as if the person would call in to report to me every single deed of their day. Furthermore, at this stage of life we would only see this individual maybe once or twice a year.

        As a matter of fact, YOU had as much information on this individual as I did!

        What I mean is that we ALL know the "bad boys" when we see them. Do YOU call the police every time you drive past a lowered, blacked out, rimmed out vehicle driven by some oversized T-shirt wearing, jewel-laden, "tatted up"  individual on a Tuesday afternoon? Let’s be real. Every last Caymanian reading this post right now has some wayward brother, sister, cousin, uncle, nephew etc. – yourself (assuming you are) included! (Regardless, the RCIPS knows who these individuals are.)

        Should we call the police and say, "Hey – this fella is one a dem bad boys, we have absolutely no clue or details of any committed offences but unna should lock him up nonetheless." – ?!

        Tell me, would that be at all helpful? The court system has enough knots to work out already.

        In any event, you are approaching this from a very idealistic position (Hmmm – perhaps you’re actually not a Caymanian?). That avenue is CLEARLY not working out so I decided to take an alternative,  more realistic one.

        Cayman is not USA, UK, or EU where it normally requires a sophisticated criminal network where someone on the inside provides the accused associates with home or work addresses of witnesses as well as their families and friends. Instead, it is simply a matter of a few thugs sat in a room, turning to each other and asking –  "Whey’ he live’?"

        Have you forgotten that they have now resorted to shooting at judges’ residences? Do you really think they would hesitate to take out an ordinary member of the public – or their family members?

        Furthermore, Cayman does not have a very good track record of properly imprisoning serious criminals – I can think of 2 murdered friends of mine over the years whose killers were released and are now walking free (one actually killed another person I heard!).

        Therefore, as you can see that this environment in which we live is a very precarious one in regards to these matters. What I have outlined is but a mere skimming of the top of the mound of related issues. I do not have much faith in the success of the "trial-by-jury" system here in the Cayman Islands.

        I am certain you will not agree with most of my sentiments, however, I am only verbalizing the sad reality of our Caymanian situation:

        "Mr. Bad Boy – Your life is not worth a d*mn!"


  9. Anonymous says:

    ToAnonymous at 14:48 – If you were to read one or two of our comments here you would see that we do have a sense of humour however; since you appear so serious about your opinion of us resenting Grand Cayman this is when all jokes are put aside. In relation to your statement on not biting the hand that’s feeding us, please remember who’s feeding YOU, literally. It’s the Foster’s, Kirkconnell’s and I could go on. Where did the people who owns these companies come from? CAYMAN BRAC!!! Look around you today and see how many Brackers are prospering and chose to make Grand Cayman their home before you pass judgement. At least when we go home on weekends/vacation we have the leisure of sleeping with our screen doors open and not have to worry about finding someone dude making off with our tools and electronics. And as for your mention of the loss-making flights, boo hoo!. Cayman Airways just made CI$111.00 off me today and I’ll be on the jet flight home tomorrow evening. In the main time, keep posting Brackers!!

  10. Unidentified says:

    We really, I mean really have to stop these assumptions as to where one is from. Criminals come from all walks of life, colour, shape and size and most of all, nationality.

    Stop being part of the problem and become part of the solution. I do not think the Commissioner needs to be told how to do his job but, he and the whole of the RCIPS need our help here and there so, give it!

    Nobody should have to walk alone!

  11. Anonymous says:

    A quick comment whilst browsing the board. I found the comment about Brac funny as it was obviously a joke.

    What isn’t so funny is how many furious replies from brac residents came straight away. Surely some of these guys should be at work? or even at school judging by the state of their language skills.

    Are you honestly telling me that wecontinue to subsidise the Brac and letting them escape duty on products etc to help them recover from Paloma and then instead of helping themselves repair the country they all sit at home on their new computers spouting hatred against Grand Cayman.

    They seem to resent the main islanda little too much despite us paying for their upkeep. maybe we should cut the purse strings and maybe stop the loss making flights, see how they like it on their own.

    Don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Oh and get  a sense of humour!

    • BRACCA TO THE BONE says:

      Dont bite the hand that feeds you hello who you think feeding you overgrown bafoon we helped you guys after Ivan also tell me where some of Grand Cayman Kids were after Ivan and about how we talk or write just remember how real Caymanians talk we never forgot where we came from but obviously you have that is what is wrong down yah now is unnah culture gone and unnah act like unnah from somewhere else talking like Americans or droping unnah pants wearing marinas growing dreads like unnah Jamacians so wha unnah excepted.

      About subsidiseing Cayman Brac we subsidise you all with our intellegent people and about cutting the purse strings please refer back to the history of the Cayman Islands and see who was independent from the beginning it was the Brackers and we built alot for ourselves government didnt do everything for us just an example the Faith Hospital we BRACKERS built that then government took it over so please dont comment on us if you no nothing about us.

      • Shif Shah says:

        Apparently the teaching standards on the Brac are even worse than on GC.

        • Anon says:

          Apparently they didn’t teach you to pick up on sarcasm! You go deh Bracca To The Bone! Tell them HATING people how it go! The jealousy killing ’em down ya!

      • Proud WBaya says:

        OMG! R u for real?

        So you suggest we write comments on a public site the way that we use our dialect? I am cracking up with laughter over here in Grand Cayman, saying to a "Bracka"…."BRACCA TO THE BONE" needs a grammar lesson or TWO!! LMAO

        Stop your foolish comments and ignorance, and think out of the box for a second. Try posting some meaningful solutions to help OUR Islands, instead of bashing people and making yourselves look even stupider than the expats make us as CAYMANIAN people out to be.

        Do you think that it’s only you who reads these posts?

        Wake up from your dreamland – try using the spell check for starters…then post!

  12. Tubs says:

    That is really a shame that not even one person has even sent in a note/letter whatever to the head Detective to say you know what I saw it and dont want my name published but I saw so and so commit the act.

    Come on some one has to say something or else next time it might be them or someone close to them,but most people are of the mind set of " I dont care or  whatever the party has to go on". 

    Sometimes we have to stop the drinking and party for a second and evaluate our selves and how precious and short life is!! 

  13. Anonymous says:

    These people who comment about brackers and people on grand layman are obviously ignorant! WE ARE ALL CAYMANIANS! All three of these islands are our to share and it disgust me to hear that comment but it disgust me even more 2 heat the replies! We all share the same families and birthright and when another 1 of our islands is peril we should band together as us “grand caymanians” did for the “brackers” with the cleaning up after paloma! It saddens me the heights of our people’s ignorance…we aren’t grand caymanians or cayman brackers, we are CAYMANIANS from the CAYMAN ISLANDS!

    • Anonymous says:

      Thank you so much for clarifying that!  Cayman Brackers seem to have a problem calling themselves Caymanians but yet most of them seem to end up on Grand Cayman living amongst us!  I can’t blame them for wanting to keep the peace and tranquility as I wish we could have kept on Grand Cayman and I do wish them luck as they try to develop because unfortunately, it is only a matter of time with development

      • Anon says:

        I am so sorry that it offends you people so much that we pride ourselves on being called Brackers! Yes I am Caymanian but I was born and raised for most of my life on Cayman Brac and I am VERY PROUD to call myself a Bracker! I had NO choice but to come to Grand Cayman to work to provide for my family. I would love to go home but unfortunately I can’t. However, saying that, I have chosen to "live among you" as you stated because I LOVE my island the way that it is and is in NO hurry to see it go to hell like Grand Cayman has!

    • Anonymous says:

      What is so difficult to understand about us calling ourselves "Brackas"? No one has said that we are not Caymanian. People all around the world refer to themselves from where they are born, grew up, etc. Someone from New York is called a New Yorker. Does that mean they don’t consider themselves American? No.  Someone from Paris is Parisian; wouldn’t you agree that they are French? It should be automatically implied. Even in Grand Cayman, someone from West Bay is a West Baya or Baya. It is so simple yet it amazes me how many people from Grand Cayman don’t seem to understand this concept and believe that we don’t consider ourselves Caymanian just because we call ourselves Brackas. Just in case what I said above was too confusing here is a simple definition "Bracka: a Caymanian from the island of Cayman Brac."

  14. Anonymous says:

    It is for sure that you the person suggesting to send those young people to the Brac  simply do not have a heart.   I will pray for your soul.  And to educate you the Brac is one of the best places and produces a lot of great people to remind people like you that most of the top positions held in Government or other areas in Grand Cayman are held in the past and present by Brackers.  So why not find other solutions for the criminals and leave the Brac out of it.  What would happen if Cuba, the United States or any other part of the world suggested to send their criminals to Grand Cayman do you then think that this is a great solution.  Sometimes it is best to think before you speak or if you don’t have anything good to say then don’t speak at all.  May God continue to Bless you.

  15. McGruff says:

    Seems to be a lot of potential law enforcement officers posting all over this forum. See you all at the next recruitment drive!


  16. Kermit says:

    I say send them to the moon nothing up there (that i know of anyway) and et them knock themselves out!

  17. Pastor Bucket says:

    wow, there really are some ignorant people here, what a waste on a great & intelligent site, at least we haven’t had any "give these kids a bible" posts…yet

    of course it would be great to have all the thugs picked up & sent away, but you miss the crucial point

    mr baines cannot just have these people monitored/picked up/detained etc as you would like, it is called the LAW and , the very same law that protects you from being wrongfully treated. it seems that in your passion for justice (understandable but someone has to remain clear headed) so many of you want vigilante style lawkeeping.

    eg there are lots of known paedophiles/defilers & bestialists here too but you cant just pick them up without due process in the real world. too many people have a split personality when it comes to law; like those who say "paedos should be locked in a room with a load of mothers yet if it was their son they wouldn’t.

    chill on the emotional rants & think/speak clearly, keep a check on what media your kids consume & free your self from the mental slavery your 2000 year old cave book keeps you in


  18. Anonymous says:

    They better send them back to their own mother country. Deport tham I say. Had to be some idiot that replied "Send them to Cayman Brac".

  19. Anonymous says:

    If there are only 15 of them and police know who they are, then why not put police on their a$$es 24/7 and arrest them any time that they so much as drop a cigarette or a match on the ground or loiter in one place for 15 minutes. A few weeks of that and the arrogant little pissants will probably do something out of frustration for which they can get some serious time at the Northward Hilton. 

    Unfortunately, and in part because of the long standing impression that the police themselves are not willing or able to confront these actual and wannabee gangstas, it is necessary for the police to now show beyond any doubt that they are not afraid of these troublemakers and that they are willing to take them on – straight on.

    It is only when the public clearly sees that things are going against these thugs that people will have enough courage to come forward with information and evidence. It is human nature – people choose the side that appears to be winning – particularly when violence is involved. At this point the people clearly think that the thugs are winning.

    I agree with what McKeeva said the other day. If it is necessary to bring in a special squad of 20 or 50 of the toughest, meanest and most aggressive police that God ever put on this earth to deal with these 15, then so be it. If we have to build a special soundproof windowless room for the police to use to question these thugs to find out where all the illegal guns are, then so be it. If the thugs unfortunately end up repeatedly falling down the stairs in a single story building, then so be that to. 

    The rule of law only prevails when those who enforce the law have the will to prevail. The thugs clearly do not respect the rule of law. Why should they have the benefit of it? 

  20. Sarasue Bracka says:

    Better yet, send them to the Brac, we’ll know what to do with them…

  21. Anonymous says:

    Does no one realise how dangerous it is to the rights of every Caymanian citizen to have his or her right to a jury trial taken away?

    It is unbelievable what we allow the police to get away with due to them playing on our fears of crime.

    Yes – the current atmosphere is appalling and disturbing and all Caymanians weep at the senseless death of our young men. My own heart is broken by the recent murders that have so shocked our local community.

    But we cannot allow a foreign police force to capitalise on this horror by removing our rights in our justice system.

    The police have far too many over reaching powers already and this force – made up largely and mostly by foreign police officers – abuse the rights of Caymanians every day.

    Don’t remove our rights. Instead – clean up the police force first and deal with crime properly.

    Investigate the rumours and claims that the police (reaching as high up as CHief INspector status) ignore the crimes of certain gang members in return for information on rival factions. And this includes possession of illegal fire arms.

    Baines needs to turn his eyes inward before talking about removing the rights of this country’s citizens.


    • anon says:

      The right to jury trial is NOT inalienable and has been removed in many cases through out the commonwealth were it has been necessary to prevent the course of justice being perverted.  Anything to do with guns on this island and all the locals and Jamaicans seem to run and stick their heads in the sand and think that if they see no evil and hear no evil then that’s ok – you only have to look at the fact that Carlo Webster was shot in a club surrounded no doubt by hundreds of  people and yet the police still seem to have no witnesses.  Do you really think that a court made up of three visiting judges who are not in any way connected with anything on the island will be anything other than fair.  Do you think jurors actually act in accordance with their duties to try faithfully in accordance with the evidence.  No they are swayed by the marl road, their own personal and family connections and what they perceive to be the liklihood or not of revenge attacks on them.  Even in the UK the right to jury trial has been taken away in some cases under the Criminal Justice Act 2003 and during the troubles in Northern Ireland for paramilitary cases.  In Jamaica they have specific courts called gun courts.  Get real people. Tackle the problems.  If you go to court any day of the week you will see that not only do defendants get rights here, the courts bend over backwards to pander to them.  They get away with unbelievable liberties in court and are treated far more leniently than they would be in England. 

      • Joe Average says:

        I agree with trial by judge.  Gangsters, including the Mafia have used intimidation to sway jury members.  In a community this small that is a viable tactic for the gang bangers.

  22. Sir Henry Morgan says:

    I do believe there are a lot more than 15 people with illegal fire arms Mr Baines. I think you totally under estimate the extent of the problem on the island… I would say 1500 would be a more accurate guess.

    Good luck cleaning our island up, you have a hell of a task ahead of you.

    • Anonymous!!! says:

      Didnt you get the message, read the article, what the man is saying is that there is about 15 individuals that are in control of the gun situation here, that said he is telling you that the importers are about 15, and give the man a chance, he has the cahoonas to tell us that he knows this, now you all get behind him and report your friends and family that you know has the guns, thats  what is wrong here, every one wants to protect their own and dont want to turn them in, so if you will do your part it will help the RCIP too.

      As for your comments on sending them to the Brac, I think that a cave in your back yard maybe a better place, then we can  monitor you and the  sleeze bags that are messing up our Islands.

    • Anonymous says:

      I dont think he is saying only 15 people on-island have firearms – I think he’s saying these 15 people are behind the recent speight of shootings.

    • Anonymous says:

      1500 ? You are truly a misguided fool.


      Give the man credit for stepping up and taking action.

    • Anonymous says:

      The commisioner was only refering to  the recent tit for tat shootings, not gun crime in general. Cut of the serpants head (15) and the rest of the gang related crime will take a serious hit, make prospective members think twice when they see the ‘untouchables’ banged up in jail after a trial by judge.

      And how is it even possible that not 1 of the 150 people in the club that night has stepped forward and done the right thing. there must be 1 hero out of the 150 cowards in that club.

      witnesses should not have to stand up in court to give evidence – all evidence should be anonymous – given in seperate rooms at seperate times from the trial. The scum should have absolutely no chance of finding out who the witness is.

  23. Anonymous says:

    Mr. Baines, only fifteen.  I was saying around 50 of them.  Get on with it and moniter these criminals, find out where they live, where they resides, where they spend one or two night, where their girlfriends house is, where there mother house is and where they hang out.

    Knock down there doors when a major crime has occur and try and get a data base build up on these criminals.

    You have to start somewhere, leave your mark on the Royal Cayman Islands Police Department by doing something like this so we can all live in pease.

  24. Anonymous says:

    9:04 you so fool, sending them to the Brac. Great idea no sence.

  25. Fed-Up Bracker says:

    To the person that thinks deporting them to the Brac is funny…you are an idiot. We don’t need them here and that is not even a sensible thing to say. CNS should not even allow idiots like you to post on here. Grow up!

    • Take a Dump and Whine says:

      Since Miss Julie is the one ultimately responsible for it, perhaps they could take the dump with them when they go??

  26. Concerned young caymanian mother says:

    Name these 15!!!!! The public DESERVES to know!!!!!!!

  27. Anonymous says:

    How is the RCIP’S going to remove these "15" known individuals from society – with batons and bullet proof vests???


  28. Anonymous says:

    Hell no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! why do you think we what them in the Brac send the to Jamaica that’s a good place for them.

    • Anonymous says:

      You sound no better than the person who suggested the Brac…dumb dumb!!

      • anonymous1 says:

        I think the person was implying that if they are sent to Jamaica that would be the end of their gun toting days.  Jamaica police no ramp with them.

  29. Anonymouse says:

    Arrest them NOW!…

    Then look for the the guns hidding place, starting with waist bands, cars, attics, bushes, etc…

    And don’t forget to wear a bullet proof jacket!…



  30. Anonymous says:

    Since their is only about 15 suspected persons can the Comissioner tell us how many times have these individuals have been searched in the last year?

    If five of these were searched each day at different times we would certainly give them something to think about because crime. We have seen four comissioners in the last year and we are getting the same results is it that they all think a like or is it time to change the policies of the RCIPS?

    To state that these roadblocks are done to curve movements of criminals is a cop out. How many of these fifteen have been caught in this operation? I think it is time to stop finding excuses and target these criminals and ensure that officers are properly trained in investigative techniques as it is quite obvious that they are not see results of the cases where one individual was allowed to go fishing before the room was searched,where the survelience video being erased or recorded over,items taken from suspects not tested for DNA the list could go on.

    There should also be consequences when officers neglect their duties.

    • Anonymous says:

      Unfortunately all our Police Commisioners seem to come from the same source of training, hence their same way of thinking.

      Why dont we recruit from other countries other than the UK all the time.

      The UK Bobby mentality dont suit our degree of crime.

      We need someone who will shoot first and ask questions after just like the criminals do.

  31. Anonymous says:

    Just put a permanent road block on anything entering or leaving West Bay, at the four way stop.  The police would catch half the guns and most of the items stolen in burglaries elsewhere on the island that way.

    • Thankful says:

      simple-minded and foolish to assume that those 15 reside or are from West Bay.

    • Anonymous says:

      Dingdong, the 4 way stop isn’t the only way to West Bay. LOL!  What a dingdong…

  32. Anonymous says:

    Here we go! Cayman Brac catching hell again.

    To Anonymous at 09:04 – What’s your problem? Some Cayman Bracker stepped on your toes this morning? Your idea of sending these criminals to the Brac shows the stupidity of some of you posting here. Give Cayman Brackers a break. We don’t need any idiots over here with guns and if you hear of any reports of shootings in the Brac it will only be shots of tequila at Edd’s and Coral Isle!!

  33. Sarasue Bracka says:

    I would LOVE to know who came up with that brilliant idea to have this nuisances ‘deported to the Brac and have them get on with shooting each other’.

    In a time like this, one should be encouraging a more positive soloution. No, I suggest they stay in Grand Killman and leave my quiet, safe homeland out of this. And that suggestion not only pissed me off but made me quite sad that you haven’t considered the fact that there is in deed people that live over there.

    Maybe someone should actually stop complaining about the issue and help solve it and stop blaming everyone else and pushing the problem onto someone else?

    This is so sad. I thank God the Brac is not like it is over here and I pray that it never will…

  34. Anonymous says:

    Deport them to the Brac? What ignorance! I am not from the Brac but am astonished to see such a comment even as a joke if it was meant to be one. The Brac is wonderful & definitely not deserving of these criminals! I love visiting there and have on many occasions considered moving there if there job opportunities available. Some people on the Brac still sleep with their doors open with no fear! We need to work on punishing these criminals in such a way that it discourages others from following in their footsteps so that maybe one day we can feel safe again. I suggest training the police if that is what is necessary so that they know how to handle evidence in such a manner that it can be preserved. The courts need to find a way to take statements / evidence from witnesses without their identities being disclosed so that people wont be afraid to speak. People & the police need to step up to the plate & get this island back under control!

  35. Anonymous says:

    on Thu, 10/01/2009 – 09:04.

    "15 Caymanians shooting people then can we not deport them to the Brac and let them get on with shooting each other?"


    Of all the ridiculous posts that I have ever read this one sure takes the grand prize! Obviously it was meant in jest but even at that, it demonstrates too high a level of stupidity.

    People are generally deported back to where they came from. Are you implying that these 15 are from Cayman Brac? As a native Bracker I will seriously dispute this. If there is a Bracker in the group send that one home to us and we will deal with him or her.  However, keep your own problems and I suggest that you deal severely and seriously with them. 

    A much more sensible question is:

    "Since the police know who the 15 Caymanians are why don’t they get them off our streets?" Actually I can answer that question as well, it’s because Caymanian jurors keep setting them free! There are seasoned criminals in this group who get off on attempted murder/murder charges and the day they are released flashing their Victory signs, they go straight out that very night and repeat the offenses.

    I trust that the new commissioner will be successfulin getting trial by judge only in these cases. It is clear that we cannot trust our own peers to hand down fair and non-emotional verdicts.

  36. Get a life says:

    to 09:04


    Why the hell you won’t take them in your house or send them to your homeland. Cayman Brac and Little Cayman is the only two islands of the Cayman Islands that is peaceful. Yes, they have their drug or whatever problems but we dont need gun violence over there. So go to hell and shut up! Next time think before you talk. It’s people like you that should visit over there and be thrown off the edge of the bluff by the light house where sharks can eat your @$$.

  37. Anonymous says:

    That’s a football team. Let’s invite them to a match at the National Stadium. We can all buy tickets and watch…

  38. Anonymous says:

    If there’s only 15 Caymanians shooting people then can we not deport them to the Brac and let them get on with shooting each other?

    • Anonymous says:

      Why the Brac – my suggestion if they come to the Brac is that we get some of the contractors here to make them some "cement shoes" and we take them out to sea and let them go over the drop off – that should take care of them nicely

    • BRACCA TO THE BONE says:

      We Brackers don’t need your uncontrolled coward gun sliinging garbage on our Island we are loving and caring people GREED is what has distroyed Grand Cayman and lack of disapline when your kids do wrong.

       We In the Brac all know who our nabours are but Grand Cayman’s hospitality has gone out the window, so you Grand Caymanians has brought this on yourselves so grow up and accept it and one more thing when we Brackers get enough we can go home tell me where are you gonna run to so clean up your own garbage.

      • Anonymous says:

        Obviously there isn’t a school in Cayman Brac judging by your spelling and grammar. It was actually a joke about the Brac, but if your response is anything to go by then perhaps using the Brac as a prison island might be a good idea.

        The reponse time after my comment was pretty quick so I’m presuming you are unemployed and living at the expense of me and other Grand Caymanians that subsidize your lifestyle of smoking weed, beating your wives and hard drinking. Try getting a job and paying your own way for a change. We are fed up paying for you and your illegitimate children.

        • anonymous1 says:

          And there are no illigitimate children, wife beaters, ganja smokers, and drunkards in Grand Cayman?  Just pedophiles and gun toting gangstas eh?

      • Anonymous says:

        Well don’t you Brackers know that we are all called Caymanians and that any Caymanian do not need any special papers to go to Cayman Brac? Stop being and sounding so stupid!!!!!

        • BRACCA TO THE BONE says:

          Yeah but the brac is our home you will have to buy a home or build one so who is stupid now. Also you Grand Caymanians were the ones that singled us out an treated us different I know that for a fact as i applied for a job and i was told that only Caymanian’s must apply so my Question to this day is who am i.

           Brackers  hold some of the highest jobs in Cayman Islands today and guess who owns the big grocery stores um lets see Kirkconnell, Fosters they all BRACKERS unnah couldnt even feed unnah selves thats how helpless unnah is guess we will have to form a team to clean up this O.K. Corral you all have down here too so its ok to be in denial you know you all cant live with out us. 

          • Anonymous says:

            You’re contradicting yourself. You are implying that because you are a ‘Bracker’ you were not able to secure a (particular) job (in Grand Cayman) but then you  go on to say that  Brackers hold  some of the highest jobs in the Cayman Islands (which admitedly (not sure of spelling – pls forgive me) could mean they’re all in Cayman Brac because Brac falls under Cayman Islands).

    • Anonymous says:

      Did you see anywhere in that statement that he said 15 Caymanians  ?  We need to all face the fact that this younger generation no matter what nationality they might be are getting out of hand and have no respect for human lives.  At least Mr. Baines is making an effort to do something about it and if we as Caymanian people do not see fit to assist where necessary we should stop complaining about things.  Road blocks are a necessary evil wherever they are and if it gets 1 gun off the street and you have 100 arrests for drunk driving you may be saving a lot more than 1 life from a gun shot but also from being killed by a drunk driver.  Drastic times call for drastic measures and the life they save may be yours or a loved ones so SUCK IT UP and let the police do their job.

    • Anonymous says:

      How about sawing off West Bay and let it drift?

      • Anonymous says:

        Stupid suggestions like sawing off West Bay might not be a bad idea after all.  Then all the other nationalities and Caymanians from other districts might not be able to come in to do their crimes and blame West Bayers as usual.  Remember about 30 or so years ago when some Bodden Town men went missing and they were searching the Barkers area or are you too young to remember that????  Well you might be too young to remember a lot of things so keep quiet.  West Bay has been getting a lot of blame for shit that West Bayers knows nothing about!!  Yes because of its geographical location all the smugglers directed their drugs to be delivered there and of course I could go on but if you have any sense you should get the drift.  Cayman is too small to try to be segregated so best we try to work together as Caymanians instead of fighting down each other while all the other nationalities stick together!!!!!!!!

        • Anonymous says:

          I’m sure somebody has the exact statistics to back us up here. But regardless of somebody going missing years and years ago, that is not the issue here. The new generation of wankstas is the problem and unfortunately the majority of them come from West Bay and they do a lot of their shooting around West Bay or sometimes go down to Georgetown or wherever to shoot somebody else from West Bay that is there.

          I’m sorry but that is the way it is. Don’t bury your head in the sand. You’re probably one of these who blames everybody else when it’s probably your own kids, nephews etc doing the shooting, but like all the other cowards you won’t speak up.

    • Anonymous says:

      This comment was very dumb!

    • Kitti says:

      You are an idiot.  And I agree with someone else who posted earlier Cayman News Service should not allow such stupid comments like yours to be posted on here.