PPM pushes for self-defence

| 07/10/2011

(CNS): Members of the opposition are hoping that government will back them on three proposals to beef up individual protection and allow people to defend themselves against criminals. The People’s Progressive Movement (PPM) has filed three private members motions in the Legislative Assembly for debate during the current meeting that could attract support from the government benches but is unlikely to receive a warm welcome from the commissioner of police. The opposition leader and his team are calling for the decision of who gets a firearm’s license to be taken away from the top cop and given to an authority, the legalization of pepper spray for personal protection and to allow security guards to be armed.

Alden McLaughlin has said that given the continuing rise in violent crime, the current policies regarding self-defence are inadequate and he believes the commissioner of police must change his approach and allow people the ways and means to protect themselves against violent crime.

In his motion to establish a Firearms Authority, which is supported the East End member Arden McLean, the opposition leader has said that with unlicensed firearms on the rise and legitimate licenses apparently falling, the decision over who can own a weapon legally needs to be taken away from the police commissioner, who has made it clear he is opposed to the principle of gun ownership for self-defence.

McLaughlin says that the policy regarding the issue of firearms licenses is very restrictive at a time when unlicensed firearms are increasingly common, as illustrated by the number of crimes involving guns. As a result he is now asking government to amend the firearms law that provides for the police commissioner to be the sole authority on the decision to grant firearms licenses and to create a firearms authority, which will include the commissioner along with at least three justices of the peace appointed by the governor, to issue firearms licenses that will offer what McLaughlin believes is a fairer representation on who can be trusted to own a gun.

McLaughlin has also filed a motion supported by his Bodden Town colleague Anthony Eden asking government to amend the penal code as well as the firearms law to allow people to carry pepper spray or Mace for their own protection without a license in order to directly protect themselves from robbers and other violent criminals.

The former opposition leader, Kurt Tibbetts, has also tabled a motion, backed by McLaughlin to address what the opposition says is the inadequate protection offered to private security guards. Tibbetts is calling on government to allow those guarding businesses, apartment complexes and even private homes that are currently not only unarmed but unprotected to be allowed to use non-lethal means of protection.

Tibbetts says the law needs to be amended at the very least to allow them to wear bullet-proof vests and carry batons, handcuffs and pepper spray when they are on duty. In some cases he also stated that the law needs to be amended to allow for firearms licenses to be issued to some security guards provided the necessary checks regarding suitability and competence are carried out.

The three motions were scheduled for debate during the most recent sitting but were postponed due to government business taking priority. The private members motions are, however, expected to return to the Legislative Assembly when it next meets, which could be as early as Monday.

In a recent marathon debate about the crime problem all members of the Legislative Assembly came together to call on the governor and the police commissioner to get tougher on crime. Following talks between the officials and the elected members of government, the Legislative Assembly voted to increase the police budget but in return asked for a task force and more armed officers.

During the crime debate the issue of personal protection seemed to gain support from both sides of the country’s parliament. As these issues essentially fall under the responsibility of the administrative arm of government, the opposition team may well be able to attract enough support from the government benches for the legislative changes, but they are unlikely to win the support of the commissioner and ultimately the governor.

At a recent meeting with the business community about how the authorities were tackling crime, Duncan Taylor warned against knee-jerk reactions to the way the islands are policed or how people protect themselves.

Category: Politics

Comments (93)

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  1. Anonymous says:

    Is this a serious proposition? Really?

    In a country where it's illegal to own a slingshot to rid your yard of wild chickens…..

     

    • Dennie Warren Jr. says:

      It's not illegal to own a slingshot, you just first need the permission of the Commissioner of Police to legally do so.  Another stupid law. smh

    • Anonymous says:

      Wasp spray is very effective, legal and reasonably priced, ladies!

  2. Anonymous says:

    What the general public doesn't seem to know is that there is a law that covers the arming, equiping and training for security personnell…it is the Private Security Law 2007.

    The Governor has the power and authority under that law to allow any of these suggested changes in private security but…

    That law has only been used to tax and licence security companies and their employees…

    Its not been used in any way to beefen up or improve the security services provided.

    I don't personally agree with more firearms licenses to untrained gun owners.

    A full course of self-protection/defense instruction should be mandatory, along with full firearms training and handling and safety should be required before any gun licenses are issued to any private citizen.

    Firearms, even legal ones, in the hands of untrained people will only increase the death by shooting ratios in Cayman, as well as accidental shootings and injuries.

    This idea needs to whole lot of thinking through before any changes are considered.

  3. Anonymous says:

    Sort out education, unemployment,tourism and drug trade first and then start a gang unit which should have been done from 2 decades ago. All you politicians do, is keep adding branches to the tree instead of going at the root of the problem.

    This is a bad , bad idea to allow pepper spray and guns. The judicial system and police are going to be more swamped with incidents and investigation.

    ….and guess what the guns are still coming in ! So who you going to blame again,the police? or do we need a 100 more to join the force.

    How about getting GPS systems in the patrol cars first and monitor them with a tight and proper spread on our streets. Maybe assign and train a dozen more USG or special gang unit patrol with sidearms. Keep on the patrol the same gang areas until those pieces of crap get sick of it. Heck the Bronx in NY has less police officers.

    • JH says:

      Welcome to the soon to be wild wild wild cayman. I realize that we are paying our elected members a salary that they must earn,but never in my wildest dream thought that they would take it to the extent that they would advocate to arm the populace with varying forms of weaponry. Sounds very medieval indeed, and definitely careless and irresponsible and pandering to the people to get reelected.

      People expect more lucid thought processes from our politicians,certainly not ideas that lead to annihilation of each other and a wild west mentality. I believe a more salient and constructive approach is to ask for people to volunteer information,for neighborhood and business watches,for better education of our wayward children, and last but foremost amongst al for the nation to bow their heads and get on it’s knees daily to seek gods strength,asking for wisdom,knowledge and understanding to solve these issues.

  4. One man says:

    Worst idea ever. Sorry PPM, but you've lost my vote.

    You guys have are ill-advised and your proposals will bring more violence to Cayman. 

    • Anonymous says:

      if PPM could lose your vote that easily then I suspect it never had it in the first place.

  5. Mr.R says:

    Caymanians need to get up to date,Cayman is not like 20 years ago,If a security guard working at a bank and gun men comes in to robb he runs because he don't have what it takes to defend him self all of you would laugh and said the security run and there is no need for security and the same thing goes for unarm officers shot fired police take a long time to respond,because they have to call in the U.S.G the police that is in the area cant respond because he is unarm next thing all of you start saying police take long to responed,On the other hand security has nothing to protect them self so what are they going to do take a shot and live or die or run for his or her life,then you all call them a fool,Or take all the security guards and run them all off the island and then police comes under more>>>then you all would see what happen to this country,In case you all did not know alot of these security guards here are ex-police,ex-soldiers and serious ex-arm guards if you think its a lie you all do a research. Cayman get real.

                                    US.

  6. Anonymous says:

    Politics is so depressing. Here we have Alden pandering to his lunatic base, well you have lost my vote. If you think broader based gun ownership is a solution to crime take a quick trip over to Jamaica. The majority of gun related injuries to children in the U.S. are as a result of lawful gun owners not securing their wapons,

    • Dennie Warren Jr. says:

      Saying that you disagree with private firearm ownership if fair political debate, but personally attacking people is very unhelpful to this discussion.

       

       

    • Well says:

      Well Ellio should at least be happy.

  7. Anonymous. says:

    Why bring more guns in?  The best solution for now is to tighten gun laws and try to get illegal guns off the streets, Cayman will become more of a third world place where criminals will rob and kill gun owners just to get an extra weapon.Alden you could have come up with a better solution,you and the PPM can forget about sitting in those comfy head chairs on the government side come 2013!!

    • Dennie Warren Jr. says:

      More laws are not the answer.  Any place where criminals can rape, murder, rob, pistol wipe unarmed people in their homes…, and come back on the Tuesday or Thursday night of their choice, is third world.  Enjoy your right to be a victim, but do not plan on me joining you – ever.  We are going to have a civil society by any lawful means necessary.

      • Anonymous. says:

        Denny i usually percieve you as an intelligent person and i know that you read and write well but you should take time out to read properly before posting, i did not say that we need more laws what i said was that we should tighten gun laws, meaning all existing gun laws should be modified, jail time should be radically increased for illegal gun possession, for example,if the law is eight years for possession then it should be increased to four times that amount,……. thirty two(32) years or more in jail will certainly make trigger happy and gun loving punks think twice!!!

  8. Anon says:

    I agree we need some pepper spray to use on those security guards when they lock our tires and extort money from us.

  9. Anonymous says:

    How about we start with training all of the RCIPS to carry a gun before we start arming the public and security gaurds.  I know several security guards and the thought of them having a firearm is frightening.  Pepper Spray?  That I agree with.  Just my $0.02.

  10. Knot S Smart says:

    Please can they try and remove Penthouse and Playboy magazine from the list of banned publications too?

  11. Anonymous says:

    I was raised in the USA and let me tell you allowing the general public to have a right to bear arms will be the absolute worse things that could happen to Cayman. Sure the spree of crimes involving guns got out of control for a brief moment. But if every tom dick and harry with a clean police record can own a gun; the gun crimes will become ridiculous. More senseless killings will occur! If you agree that everyday citizens should be allowed to own a gun you are a idiot and you have no clue as to how much harm that’s going to cause to this island. I think those who commit gun crimes should be punished by life in prison. Make Cayman a place that doesn’t tolerate the possession of fire arms PERIOD!!!!

    • Dennie Warren Jr. says:

      Except for the government right?  Smh  Do you not know that firearms protect your constitutional right to speak such nonsense?

  12. Anonymous says:

    The problem Cayman faces at the minute is one that most western countries face. Parents have instilled the wrong values in their children, stating that their child isspecial, better than everyone and deserves a better chance in life. When this isn't handed to the child on a plate like everythnig else in life, the child rebels or quits because someone is "out to get them".

     

    Nothings free in this life, if its worth having, then its worth working for and earning.

     

    Anyone that plays computer games will get this analogy: Many play games and get satisfaction from beating the game and completing it but some people need to use computer cheats to complete the game, but with an empty feeling inside as they haven't appreciated the work to get to that stage, its the same in life, cheat and you'll never fulfill your goals, play honestly and you'll get walked on a few times and work harder to achieve your goal but you'll learn a lot more in doing so!

    • noname says:

      I agree with what u r saying and in a lovely world it would be true but in the real world those that cheat r the winners.Its a fact look in the history books and u will c  all the people that r in the history of man kind that we remember today all cheated one way or other. Look at banks today they cheated put the world in a mess and nothing happens to them all the people that did it are still rich ass hell and we look up to them.So cheaters win alot.

  13. Anonymous says:

    Wow!  What an absolute over reaction!  Has anyone considered what message this gives to the public:  "The government and the RCIPS cannot guarantee your safety on the streets so we're going to allow you to carry a non-lethal weapon."  Come on, people, get real!  This is a slippery slope we do not want to roll down.  Do you really want a store guard to have a firearm?  Really?  And you want your kids to have access to pepper spray?  Surely, you must be kidding! 

    • Anonymous says:

      Yes, I really want security guards to be able to actually guard things, and not have to run away when the bad guys show up. Same for the police. Same for the store owners who qualify – the only thing that will deter the armed robbers roving Cayman is the likelihood that out of 3 store that they rob, at least one will contain someone who will kill them.

      Yes, I want my kids to be able to defend themselves. I’m shocked that you want to send your kids out amongst the gangland warfare with absolutely nothing besides a “VICTIM” sign hanging around their necks.

      If Cayman could control crime simply with the finger-wagging police my positions would be different, but they can’t. That’s a fact well proven over a long period of time. We all have to deal with our new reality now, including you. Cayman of old is gone. You can stick your head in the sand and hide from that if you want, but you’re likely to simply get shot in the a$$.

      • Anonymous says:

        So, you want security guards to have the ability to take a person's life?  You want THEM to have that responsibility?   That's big of you.  Would you take a person's life if they tried to rob your home. REALLY? You have absolutely no idea how your life would be TOTALLY destroyed by killing another human being, even if they were a bad guy.  You talk big, but you have no idea what it means to take away another person's existence. 

        Your comment about 'Victim' signs around your children's necks indicates a  unreasonable level of paranoia that pervades the Cayman Islands at the moment; unless your children are on the streets, unattended, getting up to their own michief, of course.  Are you looking after them properly?  Of course you are. . .you're going to give them pepper spray and total access you're handgun and tell them to kill someone who tries to steal their purse, or watch, or bracelet.  Are you telling me you want your children to experience what it feels like to snuff out another pesons life?

        You have absolutely no idea what it means to kill another person, and I truely hope you and your children never find out.

        • Anonymous says:

          If you are having mental difficulties dealing with an experience of killing someone, please go get some therapy. Really. You should take steps to learn to be happy.

          As for me, I’ve watched a number of people die, though I was never the direct cause, and I’m fine with death. Perfectly happy to kill someone trying to rob my home. You may be mentally fragile, but I’m happy to send an armed criminal to his greater reward. Knowing they are burning in hell within seconds of their last gasp makes me believe in a justice that you just can’t get around here. That’s just fine with me.

          And yes, a security guard should stand ready to kill anyone posing an armed threat. That’s why they are supposed to be there, in my view. Having them stand around until it’s time to run away in fear is pointless and just created more victims.

          And yes, I am in fact training my children to be just as honest and just as me, and just as deadly. I raise no victims. How about you?

  14. Anonymous says:

    More guns = more gun related deaths. I have seen it in my own country, a criminal will take the life of licensed gun owner to procure more weapons. Bad idea.

    • Dennie Warren Jr. says:

      That is because you waited until crime was totally out of control.  Then you run here and wish to cause the same problem here. 

      • Anonymous says:

        Dennie in an effort to educate you I will say go have a look at the crime statistics in Sweden, very low crime barely any firearm availability. 

  15. Anonymous says:

    this is a crazy idea.  i don't want my kids to get accidentally shot at the supermarket because the security guard and the would be robber are shooting it out.

    anyone who ignores the fact that more people are murdered per capita in the US which has gun ownership for all and Britain which doesn't is either blind, stupid or both. 

    when two people with guns clash there is a greater chance of death than when only one or neither of them have guns.

     

    • Anonymous says:

      look at the statistics. You can't own a gun everywhere in the states. and most gun deaths are in cities and low income high crime areas. On another note, no trained guard is going to have a shoot out around civillians. Real life isn't what you see in the movies.

    • Anonymous says:

      I am all for defending yourself, but to arm the security guards??? I don't think that is a good idea.  Look at what is happening at the schools with a "certain" security company.  They are hitting the kids, so now if they are armed they can shoot the kids?  (Just giving an example).  They won't arm police, really…do you think it makes sense to arm security??

  16. Anonymous says:

    Everyone needs self-defence to deal with Big Mac!

  17. Say what? says:

    This UDP Supporter is with you on this one. The first thing we need to do is allow busineses to hire armed guards.

    • Absurdistani says:

      Agreed. To maintain a sensible level of control, why not let the businesses hire off-duty police. These off duty police would be required to wear their uniforms while carrying firearms and would be paid by the business owners. This would allow police personell to supplement their income. The roster/schedule could be managed by the RCIP who could charge a small fee which supplement their budget.

      I think this is a win-win-win for the business owners seeking better security, the police seeking extra income and the RCIPS looking for an enhanced presence and healthier budget.

      • Anonymous says:

        Other jursidictions that have tried this found it doesn't work. You get police who don't show up for court because of overlapping duties, men that will work 20 hours in 24, an-so-on.

    • Strangers in The Night says:

      UDP supporter? I didn't know there was such a thing anymore! I thought they were extinct!

  18. so Anonymous says:

    Yes responsible persons should have the right and the tools to defend themselves but… One of the many glaring problems with Cayman is its total inability to follow its own rules and laws in respect to giving a person or persons status, a work permit, key employee status, gun ownership or pretty much anything that requires proof of ability.  In Cayman its who you know more than what are your qualifications. Just check out the driving here to see who gets a license.   If you make a law that lets certain people have guns than whoever is in charge is free to determine which of their friends, family or people that owe them money is also qualified forthat status.  Not going to work here.  Or at least it will only work as well as the rest of those things do here.  Not well at all..

  19. Anonymous says:

    Can I pepper spray the security and take his weapon or just wait until middle of night when he dozes off. I totally disagree with guns period. Maybe those who protect our borders should be looked at and stop all else from entering. Drugs, Guns, illegal immigrants?

  20. Anonymous says:

    Finally, some motions that make sense and have teeth to help fight the uptick in crime.

    Thank you, opposition.

  21. Anonymous says:

    I watched a tv show on gangs in the US recently. There was an interview with a gang leader who is now incarcerated and it was quite enlightening. The gang leader stated that they targeted the residential homes of certain demographic groups because they knew that the families would have a licensed gun in the house which they could steal. The gang guys seemed to put a higher price on finding a gun than finding property they could sell.
    Having more guns on island increases the possibility that they will fall into the wrong hands like the police issue gun that was recently found in Prospect. If gang members know where the guns are they will want to get their grubby hands on them. More guns equates to more gun incidents. Having licensed gun ownership does not cut crime. You only have to look at the US to realize this.
    I do however agree that the public should be able to carry pepper spray and that with proper training security guards should be able to use non lethal weapons.

    • biker says:
      The following article was copied from the Marietta  Daily Journal newspaper:

      KENNESAW, Ga – Several Kennesaw officials attribute a drop in crime in the city over the past two decades to a law that requires residents to have a gun in the house.

      In 1982, the Kennesaw City Council unanimously passed a law requiring heads of households to own at least one firearm with ammunition.
       
      The ordinance states the gun law is needed to "protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants."
       
      Then-councilman J.O. Stephenson said after the ordinance was passed, everyone "went crazy."
       
      "People all over the country said there would be shootings in the street and violence in homes," he said. "Of course, that wasn't the case."
       
      In fact, according to Stephenson, it caused the crime rate in the city to plunge.
       
      Kennesaw Historical Society president Robert Jones said following the law's passage, the crime rate dropped 89 percent in the city, compared to the modest 10 percent drop statewide.
      • Anonymous says:

        This city is now one of the top 10 cities in the US for families, and its crime rate in half the US national average.

        It’s guaranteed that these pukes rampaging in Cayman would crap their panties if they tried this after everyone was capable of defending themselves.

  22. Anonymous says:

    No wonder Aldin want's this …his fists obviously weren't effective enough in his own mind. Now he wants pepper spray and a gun! Change your attitude towards crime Aldin don't add more ammunition to the community for criminals to use against us!

  23. Anonymous says:

    not a good plan for the future of our kids – school shootings, alcohol related incidents,domestic abuse shootings, accidental mistaken identity issues  – we would be going backwards as society in my humble opinion.

     

  24. Anonymous says:

    There's a disconnect between the perception that we are all under threat of physical violence and the reality, which is that most of the violence has been inter-gang rivalry, or attacks against businesses and property. I can see very few cases where an individual would have had the time or the opportunity to retrieve their weapon and defend themselves effectively.

    As for guns, that just leads to an arms race, and whoever pulls the trigger first, wins. You'd start to see the police being shot at, as well as innocent victims of  holdups,  who were judged to be making a false move. Keep guns out of Cayman. Pepper spray perhaps, particularly for women, but then watch out for its misuse in domestic disputes. Just stick to an armed response squad for dangerous situations.

    Much as we all identify with Liam Neeson in 'Taken,' the fact is that in reality he'd have been shot about 15 times before the end of the film. Look at the death rates by gunshot in the UK where guns are illegal, and by comparison, the death rates by gunshot in the Americas. The contrast  is shocking.

    Mr Baines: don't give in, no guns please! When people are angry they tend to make bad decisions, like America after 9/11. Don't let the tiny minority of destructive punks win by forcing the majority to change the way we wish to live. Let the police get a handle on it, which they will. Things will change through force of circumstance.The public is very angry, and it will force a response to crime through long needed changes in the law and adaptation by the Police.

    • R.U. Kiddin says:

      13:10
      You'd start to see the police being shot at,
      Don't let the tiny minority of destructive punks win

      Let the police get a handle on it

      The public is very angry, and it will force a response to crime through long needed changes in the law

      Anonymous 13:10;
      No, we are not ALL under threat, but aren't you aware of the holdups and robberies that  have been occuring here?  Have you not heard of any home invasions?  Not gang against gang, but criminal acts against law abiding citizens.  Every citizen ahould have the right to defend himself against criminal action when the police are not present…….. this means in his residence or anywhere he or she might be accosted.  Let's face it, the police can't be everywhere!

      As for the police being shot at, do you really think licences will be given to that kind of people?  No!  Everyone would be investigated to determine if he or she is of sound mind and has a clean record.  While there is some possibility of a gun being stolen it is far outweighed by the possibility of the thief being shot, which is O.K. with me.  Armed citizens with weapons will not go around shooting people.  They will use them for self defence.

      You say, "Don't let the tiny minority of destructive punks win".  Let me assure you, Sir, I am not a punk and I am not destructive, nor do I think many of the other people supporting law abiding citizens having the right to arm themselves are.  That comment is out of place.  Also this action would NOT change the way you live, unless you are planning on breaking into someone's home.  No one will be forced to get a gun permit.

      Lastly,  allowing law abiding citizens to have gun permits will bring about less crime, not more.  As for thieves targeting a gun-owner's home rather than un-armed home, are you kidding?

      • Anonymous says:

        13.10. You gotta be Kiddin right? It never occured to me my comments would be  would interpreted in this way! Perhaps you read my letter again, more slowly. By "destructive punks" I refer to those teenage criminals with illegal guns who have recently hijacked our society with the result that we are now considering arming the citizenry. Perhaps my writing is not so clear, but with respect,  to read it this way seems peversely creative on your part. As for the police being shot at, obviously I refer to the criminals with illegal guns who would be faced with an armed Police, not those with gun licences protecting themselves and their families. Or were you just pulling my leg?

        • R.U. Kiddin says:

          Yes, Anonymous 8:37, I did interpret the "destructive punks" in your comment as referring to people infavor of the issuance of handgun licences.  I apologise, and I'm glad you DIDN'T mean it in that sense.  I still stand firm in my belief that responsible people should have the right to defend themselves with all means available including firearms and I respect your right to disagree. 

    • Anonymous says:

      Tell that to me when I had to watch and hope that the person attempting to break into my home failed at breaking the lock on the door. Despite my turning on the lights calling the police and shouting they still persisted for a full 5-10 minutes. These criminals know we are unarmed and they are not afraid. Arm the law abiding citizens and train them in proper gun use / etiquette. Teach the children to have proper respect for firearms and you can cut out the domestic gun related incidents entirely.

  25. Survivor says:

    I am very pleasantly surprised — no…….. downright shocked. 

    These proposals are logical and sensible.   Our criminals are opportunists and cowards, as all criminals are.   In every part of the world where people have been able to arm themselves, the criminal activity has diminished.  

    Sure, we all wish we had a magic wand that made all guns disappear.   It's good to have dreams, but the reality of the situation is that those who do not conform with the LAW, will always have an advantage over those who do.   Put another way, if an intruder forces their way into a law-abiding citizen's home, the criminal looses the right to complain if they are injured, because they have initiated the aggressive action;  if the criminal believes the odds are good they will be injured, they will generally move on.  

    I agree that the average citizen should be able to carry capsicum spray (preferred) or mace.    My view of the licensing process is this:   A license also includes training, and training is very necessary in regard to using pepper spray or mace.   It's more than just the act of pointing and shooting, it's the mindset and legal ramifications of using it.  Do you know which spray tends to shoot more as a stream versus a cloud?   Do you know what to do if the assailant's eyes are covered?   Do you know which situations define self-defense?   

    Also, licensing provides for a tracking of the specific container of defensive spray — if it falls into the wrong hands and is recovered, there is someone who is responsible for letting it get out of their hands.   This tends to cut down on people acquiring defensive sprays and selling them to those who cannot acquire them legally on their own.  

    I think this is a great first step, and I hope these proposals pass.   A law-abiding citizen that doesn't have a felony should be able to posess a firearm and the same criteria should be applied to all firearm applicants, regardless of family name or other subjective variables.     

    Perhaps this might also pave the way for what I think is a long-overdue change:   RCIP should be trained and allowed to carry firearms.   Hey, I'm sorry too, that the big bad world has changed and those changes splashed upon our gentle country, however denying reality is not going to heal us, or make our visitors feel safe.  At the very LEAST, our police officers should not have to go into the streets without the same level of protection and response that the criminals have. 

    That said, an officer requires a LOT of training and situational response drilling to be worthy of carrying a firearm.   I know there are U.S.-based police officer groups that are skilled and experienced in conducting such training, and it's not a short process;   learning to hit your target is really less than half of the process.   Still, I have faith in the intelligence and adaptability of our officers.    I'll  tell you this — if I were an officer and directed to respond to a 'shots fired' armed with only a baton, my integrity would force me to respond in the most expedient and effective manner than I knew how…… but the little prudent fellow deep inside might suggest that I take the long way there.  

    People have to have the tools and training to be able to conduct their lives and be productive without a cloud of fear hovering over them.   It's just that simple.  

    I have hope for the first time in quite a while.   Let's stick together, do what's right and best for the Cayman Islands and her people.  

  26. Guns Kill People says:

    More weaponary means more weapon use by criminals and means more deaths and injuries as a result of crime and domestic arguments/accidents.  If dead children is what you are in favour of, then expand the well settled law of self-defence.

  27. Unfortunately says:

    This would be a good idea, but unfortunately most of the guns that are being used were previously owned by legal gun owners.  The criminals target these individuals to steal their weapons….

    • biker says:

      NOT true.

      Check your imaginary "statistics" with the RCIP before embarrassing yourself, please.

    • Anonymous says:

      The guns are not stolen. I dont think there has ever been a legal privately owned AK-47 or M16 on the island. I know that for a fact because its against the law to have any rifle larger than a .22 rimfire. The guns are brought in with the drugs on the canoes from Jamiaca. Hell these kids only pay about $400 for a 9mm pistol and get in in a week or 2.

      • Dennie Warren Jr. says:

        You are totally incorrect to say that "its against the law to have any rifle larger than a .22 rimfire".  There are currently rifles on island with a bore larger than .22 rimfire.  I know this to be a fact, because I shoot them.  This falsehood that all these lawfully owned firearms are being stolen is pure RCIPS propaganda.

    • Rick Berns says:

      Garbage! What / Where is your proof of this? FOI crime stats for the months when the criminal was shot dead in a burglary last year here in Cayman and compare that with previous months or same period the previous or other years. Your eyes will be open wide. 

       

      Here are some facts. Murder rate in Cayman is higher, yes, higher than in the US. Compare our average of 12-14/100k (2010=7/50k; 2011=5/50k x 3/4) and the US' 5-6/100k (http://data.un.org/Data.aspx?d=UNODC&f=tableCode%3a1) Use facts and not impressions and misleading information.

      Interestingly, Canada (which has a fairly liberal gun ownership regime compared to the UK's) is comparable with the UK at just about 1.5/100k.

      Bermuda is about 5/100k. Barbados vary; police say 8/100k and the health authorities say 17/100k.

       

  28. Hmmmmm says:

    Does this mean that trespassers are included?  For instance if a burglar and trespasser enters my home, I can use whatever means necessary? 

    I am finding that every night my windows are being checked to see if they can open.  The front  and back door knob is being checked and my dog keeps getting sick. 

    Can I electrocute this trespasser?  He comes on the property every so often.  My lawn is watered every evening.  Can I let a live wire loose on the saturated grass and compound and cook him?!  Please, please tell me!

    Cause I know providing descriptions to the police have been useless.

    • My house says:

      They are also trying to get in my house.   I know one thing….I will make sure the floor of my house is flooded and has ample things strung around for them to slip and fall on!  The entire house is tiled and will be charged with live electricity!  Anyone breaking in better come in with a rubber suit!  I will electrocute anyone breaking and entering.

      Then maybe I can get really inventive about this.  Have cameras in my house watch when the person enters and then BAM!  Hmmm any if they are wearing a rubbersuit, then if I really planned this well, press that little button that releases the sleeping gas,  and if they are wearing gas masks, then the next button on the remote is for the spikes!  Just like in the Adams Family.  Impale them like PINCUSHIONS!

      LOL

    • Anonymous says:

      12.31 suggest you invite a number of your larger male friends over for a meal,  leave the front door unlocked, and place a $100 bill on the hall table. What you and your friends do next is up to you, but I hear that cow-itch, if handled properly, imprints a message on the recipientthat is unlikely ever to be forgotten. (And of course, Officer, what do you expect, him creeping about like that at night? Lucky it wasn't maiden plum. Do let me how his recovery goes, Sir.)

    • anonymouse says:

      12:31 by law no. but we had to do it to our fence one night as bums kept coming in the yard to steal our young puppies. I assure you that after 2 days they never returned again. However be careful and if you have neighbours with children or friends popping in from time to time make absolutly certain that everyone is aware.

      • Anonymous says:

        Where did you get it done? I would like to ask my strata if they would consider it!

    • Anonymous says:

      lol! But seiously, I think it's reasonable force if they enter your house not sure about your yard.

  29. Anonymous says:

    HOw do you ensure that people are securing their weapons against children accessing them and accidently spraying/shooting someone or using it to bully?  How do we ensure that these are not going to be used too lightly – to hurt people that are involved in petty grievances or disputes and call it "self defence"? 

    I know there are many responsible people out there, but there are also a whole lot of people who are careless and frivolous.  I am worried that this is subject to abuse or negligence.

  30. Anonymous says:

    Look after the house first! We have Marine enforcement officers out there that have NOTHING!!

    They are more prone coming up against drug operations in the bush than police officers because thats the nature of their job, yet have NO protection.

    It is just a matter of time before someone is going to get hurt, lets face it Everone stopped by these guys are armed with Knives, spearguns and hammers etc, etc.

    In poachers eyes they are not having the marine life taken from them but the means to buy drugs.

    FACT!!!!

  31. biker says:

    Also note: In the United States, the many of the "Security Guards" employed are former military or police. They have already had weapons training and are well qualified to know if and when to use deadly force.

    I think Security Guard "standards" are a little different here, in this "if guns are outlawed, then only the outlaws will have guns" (British Policies) society.

  32. Anonymous says:

    Absolutley, I spent 4 years in the US Infantry when I was in my early 20's. Owned guns all my life. I went to the police shooting ranges often when I lived in the states. I have been living here for 10 years. No reason why I shouldn't be able to protect myself. If ownership was allowed to the the correct people it would be a good idea.

    • Anonymous says:

      Farmers and CISSA members are already allowed with requisite fees and restrictions.

  33. Anon says:

    We already have Alden (Rocky II) to defend us! But these proposals will help too…

  34. Anonymous says:

    I am all for people protecting themselves, but to arm a security guard???? They won't even arm the police!!! I personally don't think that is a good idea. 

    • Knot S Smart says:

      The police have cars that allow them to make a fast getaway, but have you seen the speed of that security guard in the video of the electronics store a few weeks back?

  35. Kent McT says:

    Now this is something that makes sense!  It is sad that we NEED this, however my values and emotions will not protect my family, as criminals do not share the same values as I do, however mace and a tazer will! 

    I absolutely agree that there cannot be a license required for consumer grade pepper spray delivery systems, as nobody should be denied the ability to defend themselves.

    As for Tazer I do believe that an licensing process is prudent for those, however it should be such that everyone is approved unless you meet certain criteria that would exclude you from ownership/usership.

    I would also ask that our elected body consider removing the title of "security guard" from those who are not or cannot "guard" the patrons "security" of any establishment using them. the definition of guard – "a person or group that protects, watches over, restrains, or controls somebody or something" and the definition of security -"something that provides a sense of protection against loss, attack, or harm" That title should be reserved for those who are authorizedand equipped to "guard" the security of both the location, contents and persons.  Those who cannot fill this definition shall have some other title.  The sense of comfort that a uniformed "security guard" should not be taken lightly.  The betrayal of the confidence in that title can be massive if the actions can't match the expectation. 

  36. Libertarian says:

    People,

    It appears that citizens and expats who call themselves decent Christian folk, backing authoritarian figures in the Cayman Islands and the United Kingdom's governments, do not trust (and refuse to trust) the rest of honest, law-abiding citizens with the means of self-defense. These members of our society, conformists, are not only worthy of no trust from our part, but should be avoided in times of emergency when you need a helping hand. They are not reliable people you can truly confide with for protection.

    Any law in disarming decent Caymanian citizens declares to the world that the local government and police state is sufficient over the people, and should be the master over all self-preservative matters… even in times of crisis. That the government is not the servant of the people, but the people must be subjected and servant to the government and a police service that can't arrive on crime scenes on time! 

    I say that Opposition's move is a move in the right direction, and I support it one hundred percent.

    • Profound Reality! says:

      You have the right to protect and defend yourself without question.

      You dont have the rite to murder!

      Lets start with pepper spray and other no lethal solutions.

      GUNS ARE DANGEROUS! WE NEED TO FOCUS ON GETTING THESE DANGEROUS WEAPONS OUT OF THE HANDS OF CRIMINALS AND NOT ARMING JOE THE X MARINE SHOWBOATING LUNATIC!

       

  37. Rob Holt says:

    At a minimum, pepper spray ought to be legalized. Think of the merchants during a robbery, possibly Donna Scott would be alive were she to have pepper sray. Additionally, its difficult to understand the efficacy of a Security Guard who is unarmed in face of the prolific use of arms by the burgeoning criminal class sweeping Cayman.

  38. Anonymous says:

    If you take a community awash with illegal firearms and rampant criminality and you give the local populace access to firearms, what happens? I don't know the answer but I cannot believe that it hasn'tbeen studied and understood.  Do the criminals arm themselves more heavily? Are there more shootings or less? Is it the good guys or the bad guys getting shot? Do the criminals just steal the guns off the licensees?

  39. Cat says:

    They might as well pass it and make it law, because I am going to defend myself anyway.

    Then again, who are they to believe they have the right to decide if we protect ourselves. Its my human & God given right to protect myself. We were all born with that right! What in the world?!

    • And Mouse. says:

      Same here. Anyone who try to break in our home or hurt someone in our family will pay tje consequences. To defend oneself and property is paramount here and I applaud the PPM for introducting such motions. We cannot only depend on the Police and or the Justice system to defend ourselves. Normally when they are both involved , it's too late.

    • Anonymous says:

      I wonder how you'd feel after you'd put a bullet into someone's head who was trying to steal your flat screen TV from your living room?  Think about, big man.  It's one thing to spout the bravado, but another to live with the actuality of taking another man's life. 

      • Anonymous says:

        I agree. But a home invasion isn't always about robbery. I would let someone steal material goods from my home without firing a shot. However you attempt to hurt my family i.e. assault, rape or murder and your life is forefit.

        • Dennie Warren Jr. says:

          I agree with you, except that while I wouldn't shoot them for stealing my property, they should also know they will not simply be allow to walk away with my property either.

        • Anonymous says:

          And there is lies the dilemma, my friend.  Why IS the robber in your living room?  To steal your flat screen TV and DVD or to hurt your family?  Can't take the risk, right?  So shoot first and ask questions later?  All these people spouting off bravado about killing an intruder have no idea about the psychological trauma that comes with taking the life of another human being.  Let me tell you:  kill another human being — good or bad — and life as you know will be over.

      • Cat says:

        I have no intention of taking anyone's life, nor do I ever plan to own a fire arm. I am simply saying that I am going to defend myself in any situation,whether with pepper spray,hammers,sticks,rocks, my fists,feet,teeth and voice. I have the God given right to protect my body and life because it is mine and only mine,not yours or anyone else's. No one has the right to violate me and my life.

      • Anonymous says:

        I’d feel just fine. The island gets cleaner the more trash gets taken out.

        Happy to hear of my neighbours doing it as well, and I’d be the first to come over with a box of beer and rubber gloves to help clean up.

      • Anonymous says:

        OK. I have thought about it.

        I would feel recoil.

        • Anonymous says:

          I bet you're a Christian, right?  I can promise you, my friend, it would haunt you for the rest of your life.

  40. Anonymous says:

    The more the public is weaponized, the more blurry the line becomes between victims and criminals.  This is what societies do when they've given up trying to police crime, and once you go there, our society will turn radically and irreversibly for the worse.    

  41. Annonymous says:

    Lets hear it Denny Warren Jr….

  42. Anonymous says:

    Perhaps the hospital should be consulted before MLAs weaponize the nightclub-goers?  They will be the ones that will get slammed with dozens of "accidental" mace and pepper spray victims when there may be more urgent emergencies to attend to.  Remember we only have 3 ambulances on Grand Cayman.

    • Anonymous says:

      According to the crime reports, all the nightclub goers are already weaponized—except, unfortunately, me. . So do you have a solution for that?