Captains pitch cruise lines

| 05/01/2012

Cruise-Regional-Revenue1.jpg(CNS): The group of local sea captains that are promoting the idea of developing the cruise berthing facilities in the South Sound-Red Bay area have sent their proposals to the main cruise lines and the Florida Caribbean Cruise Association (FCCA). With government still backing George Town as the location for the multi-million dollar berthing project in partnership with Chinese Harbour Engineering Company, the local mariners and other supporters of the alternative have gone direct to those who will be using the facilities to see if they can gain support from them for the proposal.

Burns Conolly, who has been acting as a spokesperson for the group, explained that the proposals had already been circulated among some of the captains who regularly bring cruise ships into Cayman and who have already indicated their support for what the local group says is a true safe harbour that can accommodate ships 365 days per year.

Although the premier recently revealed that he did not think the berthing facilities could go anywhere now but George Town, Conolly said that if the alternative proposal could gain the support of the main cruise lines – Carnival and Royal Caribbean – as well as the FCCA, government and the local merchants in George Town might also be persuaded. Until the project starts, Conolly said, it is still not too late to re-think the location.

Acknowledging the concerns of the George Town merchants, he said that they would not lose out on the alternative proposal, not least because it would provide certainty. Conolly emphasised that the George Town retailers cannot do any business when there are no cruise ships and there will be many days in the year when the oasis class of cruise ships will not be able to berth in George Town. Spotts dock will not provide a real bad weather alternative, which means there will still be many days with no ships, despite the massive financial investment in the George Town piers.

“For the last two months we have seen cruise ships by-passing Cayman because they still can’t tender at Spotts in certain weather conditions,” he said. “The cruise lines want certainty and with the Rad Bay alternative they will know that they can berth in Grand Cayman all year round. With as many as 70% of the cruise passengers coming off the ships going straight on to excursions, the certainty of four oasis class of ships every day will ensure that the George Town merchants will do better business.”

Conolly noted that with the current plans the George Town retailers will now have to compete with a two storey captive retail complex that every single passenger will be walking through before they set foot on Grand Cayman. The alternative proposal would bus passengers into the heart of downtown George Town.

With the sea captains now targeting the cruise lines directly, Captain Bryan Ebanks, one of the North Sound water sports operators backing the alternative, said that they had done all they could to try and demonstrate the sense of the South Sound proposal and it was now in the hands of the cruise lines. He warned that going ahead with the port in George Town would be a disaster.

“We did our best to show people the dangers of building the cruise port in George Town and offered a real alternative,” he said. “We are disappointed that the opposition as well as government politicians have not bothered to take note. We are faced with a wheelbarrow mentality and they don’t want to listen.”

Fearing the worst, regardless of how much more sensible the South Sound alternative was, Ebanks said he did not think the people that had the power to do something would listen.

At a recent public meeting on the state of local tourism, the premier indicated that he still believed the North Sound was the best location for the cruise port but with extensive opposition to that proposal he said that George Town was where the facilities had to go.

He said the issue of South Sound may well provide an option for the future but right now the facilities had to be developed in the capital, where people had invested millions of dollars in retail and the infrastructure.

See more on cruise port alternative here.

Category: Local News

Comments (100)

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  1. Anonymous says:

    Compass poll finds majority are AGAINST a cruise ship port in South Sound.

     

    Captains, Spokesman,

     

    The people have spoken.  

    Please stop trying to destroy South Sound. 

    Thank you.

    Yours sincerely,

     

    Most people in Cayman who have a few grains of sense to rub together. 

    • anonymous says:

      Online polls are highly UNSCIENTIFIC. Very similar to the thumbs up/down on CNS.

      These types of polls are at best a sampling of:

      1. those with a computer who visit the site infirst place

      2. Actually read the poll question the way its written/intended ( most are written with a political slant)

      3. those who choose to respond

      3. From anywhere in the world

      4. and usaully, reflect the opinion of those with a large group of technical friends that network and also help skew the results. Note the large number of multiple votes the compass manage to catch.

      These types of polls really mean nothing and certainly do not reflect the actual view of Caymanian voters. They do however influence people like you unfortunately.

      • Anonymous says:

        And you are obviously not here in Cayman. Whatever the polls may say – if you walk around and talk to people, all walks of life,  you know most people think the port in Red Bay is a stupid idea. 

        Polls most definitely can be manipulated and I am quite sure this one understates the unpopularity of the red bay port proposal. 

        • anonymous says:

          People who oppose or support prior to getting all the information should be taken out of polls. Typically that is what happens here. You like someone and support them or you don't like them and don't support their project….just like in politics. Facts are often irrelevant.

          Your assumption in line one above is misleading at best because you definately have no facts or polls to make such a statement.

  2. Anonymous says:

    There should be 2 docks! why?

     

    1) one at Spotts not Red Bay becauuse too much dredging will have to be done and this is the lowest point on the island and where the sea level is above the land and will cause the flood gates to open more – unless they could find a way to build the docks to be a buffer/sea wall to prevent flooding – which I doubt can happen Bus the tourists for these few weeks into town.  Use Spotts dock for when there is say 6-8 cruise ships and splitting up the work load on the infrastructure would help.

    2) Maximize the George Town dock facility for use when there is no Nor'Wester season….and in the hurricane season and South Easters when the Spotts dock cannot be used…simple mathematics…just like the bypass roads are an alternative to having one main road….so is the same for the docks….2 heads are better than one ….so are 2 docks in order to be able to facilitate the ships all year round instead of them bypassing us in bad weather….. remember Ivan? the George Town dock was hardly affected…but for sure the Spotts was affected …so we do need 2 large docks!

    3) bussing tourists gives them a tour something they would hardly see if only landing in town..and when then land in town they will take tours so the taxi drivers/bus dirvers will get a fair amount of the pie also.

    4) The sea is a great servant but a bad master so we have to work with the sea conditions and let these be the deciding factors….but say again that we should be able to facilitate ships all year round.

    5) If the chinese build the dock or ar main contractors…there should be jobs that they do not bring in thier people for….heavy equipment operators…we have hundreds/thousands of these here…administrative staff…except for 1 chinese translator….technical/engineering staff yes, once any techinical caymanians have been employed….applicants for jobs should copy thier applications to the Immigration Board who wil match up with the qualifications of those applying and those the work permit is applied for…employ caymanians first then the chinese…..do not allow heavy equipment in that is already available in Cayman…they should be sub-co0ntracted…there is plenty here on the island.

    6) Why have we not seen the MOU yet?

  3. The Cat Boat Captain says:

    You guys are still on about increasing property values for someone when there are thousands of undeveloped acres out there owned by so many? still on about potential of rezoning? Still on about someone making money here or there,…..come on- you guys can do better than that. surely.

    Try to find and post a real good and technical reason why George Town is better that Red Bay. I dare you to.

    Personal bashing and greedy developer comments will get you nowhere this time fortunately. Talk about reefs, talk about environment, talk about the traffic chaos in GT,talk about knocking down Royal Watler and 2 year mess downtown, talk about onshore flooding, talk about true passenger experience, talk about income for country, talk about guaranteed berthing every day, talk about denting billion dollar ships, talk about berthing side-on to the wind in GT, talk about something that we can see why you think GT is better and makes more sense than Red Bay. Please.

    Let me hear your real reasons…..oh….as I thought and can see below…..you just cant find many can you? The Pied Piper syndrome its called. Follow blindly just look out for the cliffs my folks, look out for the cliffs.

     
  4. Knot S Smart says:

    Yawn…. I'm going back to sleep…

    Someone please wake me up when they stop debating where the dock should be, and finally build it…

    • Smart (Dim)-Sum Times says:

      Be careful, when you wake up you will have a $300M bill in your pocket, a dock that only works sometimes and everyone around you will be speaking Mandarin!!!

      Suggest you not go to sleep right now.

  5. Anonymous says:

    The promise of 'Mega Yachts' coming to Cayman when this proposed cruise ship project in Red Bay is born is an illusion.This was one of the promises for the East End terminal. Cayman is out of the routes commonly cruised by the larger private yachts. They are either en-route passing Cayman to another destination within the Carribean basin, or traveling to/ from the U.S. mainland or the Panama Canal. There are few services here that would attract these yachts, in shore based attractions ie: Casino's, entertainment , a mix of other large yacht based guests congregating for social events. They wont get fuel here & wont be able to get maintained here. Yes, it is true you see larger private yachts here anchored off G.T. area but for the most part they are few & far between & on their way elsewhere. To attract them, Cayman needs to work on what services they desire to make this a cruising destination.  

    • anonymous says:

      Mega yatchs are in the CHEC proposal also. Maybe the Chinese casino in town was not a typo!

  6. Anonymous says:

    Why would people want to be bussed to Georgetown? Can you imagine sitting in a bus going to the “retail shopping area” and then getting off and finding a handful of jewellers? If cruise shippers wanted to shop in Georgetown why are there so many prepared to wait in a queue for an hour or more to get away from Georgetown and get back on their ship. If the shopping was any good we would have trouble getting them out of the shopping area and back to the ship but it is so bad that they would rather wait in a queue to leave than shop!

    • Pit Bull says:

      I had a friend whose cruise stopped in Cayman recently while I was off island.  When they asked what the best thing to do was, I had no real option but to tell them "Stay on the ship". 

      • Anonymous says:

        Wow, boy are you good for tourism and the economy on a whole. Cayman could use a few more scattered brains like yourself. We will all be out on our cats boats fishing, and pulling cassava from the plantation. “Stay on the ship” now that is a classic.

        • Anonymous says:

          Obviously this person is not Caymanian. So long as he has made his money and stashed it elsewhere he could care less what happens to Cayman. That is why his kind should be rollover over ASAP.  

    • anonymous says:

      They are bused to shopping in St Thomas, In Puerto Rico, In St Lucia, in Barbados, in Mexico and elsewhere. What is wrong with that here if you solve other major problems such as traffic, environment and flooding at the same time?

      Should we stop busing the 70% of them OUT of downtown to see our turtles, sting rays, hell, seven mile beach, kayaking, dolphins, Pedro Castle, etc as well??

      Live with an open and analytical mind.

      • Anonymous says:

        At least they are bussed OUT of G/Tn AGAINST the traffic and back into G/Tn to catch their ship AGAINST the traffic.  What you are proposing is to have them bussed INTO G/Tn and other spots WITH the traffic.  Not so smart.  I doubt you live far outside of G/Tn and so do not care how long the rest of us sit in traffic coming in from the east.  And please don't tell me about the plan to manage / divert the traffic – who has the money to pay for that?  

        • Anonymous says:

          Look carefully, the proposal DOUBLES the road capacity at Red Bay into George Town but only adds 5% traffic on cruise days. It is the folks of East End and Bodden Town who gain MOST. No longer having to sit at Grand Harbour roundabout.

          That roundabout currently handles 37,000 vehicular trips per day now and that is before Shetty and CEC. The Red Bay port only adds another 1800 to 2000 vehicular trips to that and only to the system WEST of that roundabout. And that is only on cruise days. The biggest winners of the Red Bay port ARE the folks of the East. Better traffic flow plus easier access to cruise passengers for their tours and activities in those districts.

        • anonymous says:

          The Red Bay Berthing proposal doubles the road system out there!!

          The cruise ships passengers only add a max of 5%( 1900 vehicular trips on cruise days) to the already 37,000 daily trips at Grand Harbour but the project simultaneously adds 4 more road lanes, finally giving an alternate route to the eastern districts.

          Those in East End, North Side and Bodden Town should be the ones pushing for this project as it certainly gets rid of the bottleneck at Grand Harbour each morning that will only get worst when Shetty and CEC arrives in East End.

  7. Polly Tricks says:

    "The Captains" – Cayman speak for porfit hungry property developers who have put up a front man as a PR exercise.

    • Party Tricks says:

      Are you admitting that those who want the port downtown are driven by 'Hungry property developers" there??…hmmmm  Sure got clearer to me. Always thought Downtown was the better place for docking but now understand why its really critical for some to go there.

    • anonymous says:

      When you cannot find anything wrong with the message, simply attack the messenger….real stale comment you make…..yawn.

  8. Anonymous says:

    The South Sounders who are against this are very vocal and post and vote often on CNS. What will be very interesting is to hear what the cruise ship industry thinks about the South Sound program.

    If the cruise ship industry supports this idea it will be interesting to hear the South Sounders response. They bash the sea captains now, will they bash the cruise ship industry as well?

    • Anonymous says:

      The "cruise ship industry" won't be living here, won't be paying for it, and they won't have to daily live with the consequences of jammed up roads as buses and taxis fight to get to Gt and West Bay….while the rest of us struggle to go about our non cruise related daily existence.

      This is the tail wagging the dog.

      • Flea Bitten says:

        Nooooo…… its a VERY BIG DOG that brings 1,500,000 of our 1,780,000 tourists here each year.

        It has a VERY LARGE TAIL & HUGE BARK!!! Just ask any government in the Caribbean. Consequently, we are just a flea on for the ride.

    • Anonymous says:

      Are you kiding me? Look at who has the PR machine running full speed around the clock. Now with the port in South Sound, before with Emerald Sound.  Their website is updated almost every day and they have at least one new press release out a week. Public meetings, website, fancy artist renderings – and they live on CNS and Caycompas also, trying to manipulate these posts – and polls. 

       

      South Sounders are reacting against these money hungry people in an effort to save our special home – for everyone in Cayman's benefit. 

       

      The reason that there are so many comments from us (SS'ers) on CNS is because THERE ARE SO MANY OF US who oppose these ridiculous projects. 

       

      Over 2,200 signed the petition and there is hardly a South Sounder I know that supports either one of these stupid proposals. 

      • anonymous says:

        Many people years ago said the same about Christopher Columbus…said World was not flat….they said he was "ridiculous"….it was a 'stupid' idea. glad reason prevailed.

        The Captains have got to get the message out folks, got to let you realise the mistake you all are making downtown. 

        A big one at that that will show up in December of 2012 when Royal Watler is closed in high season for two years, when the first large waves come rolling into the deep dredged harbour, when south church street comes to a full stop as we try to put 1.5M passengers through South terminal….when that comes prophetically, please remember the Captain's "PR machine".

         

  9. Anonymous says:

    How about this idea. Leave the smaller ships anchoring and tendering in town. Build only one pier in Red Bay for the bigger ships only- they are the ones that need it. Move the cargo there as well ( we need an all weather port).

    That will:

    1. Make merchants happy in town. means more ships overall plus still get what they are now getting. No threat to lose customers.

    2. Spreads out cruise traffic and passengers, better traffic all round

    3. Gives us a proper cargo dock to ensure we get food every week here. Container traffic directly to bypass and to industrial park without going through town.

    4. Moves the cargo out of town and allows us to redevelop that area at Hog Sty Bay into a tourist centre ala Key West boardwalk.

    5. Gives our politicians a 'way out' of their current dilema – actually better in red bay but afraid of losing votes.

    6. Keeps the sunset views in George Town. ( New dock will block these as you may realise- get your sunset photos now before construction starts on the megamall and dock).

    Comments??

     

  10. Anonymous says:

    One only has to look out in George Town harbour this week to know the captains are correct. No ships.

  11. anonymous says:

    I am for George Town as long as the government issues the Environmental report before and tell me what is going to happen to our reefs out there and the 7 mile beach. I do not agree to dig up those great snorkeling areas which my clients use every day just to dock the boat they came on. That just does not makesense to me. But I will wait on Ellio and Mac's report before they sign off on this thing.

     

  12. anonymous says:

    I for one fully support the Red Bay location.

    I saw the presentation and read all the information and it just makes sense. Caymanians need to get out of the "crab in a barrel" mentality and do something WITH each other, FOR each other. No one else is going to do it for us.

    If the Foreigners had come with this idea, we would be out there with flags supporting it.

     

    • Yep says:

      "If the Foreigners had come with this idea, we would be out there with flags supporting it."

      You mean foreigners like Ken Dart, Joe Imparato, Mike Ryan and China Harbour, who get so much flag-waving support from Caymanians?

      I'm sorry; what alternative universe are you looking at?

       

  13. anonymous says:

    I went to Mr Connolly's presentation in Prospect. It was very professionally done and very thorough. I must say they have thought out a lot of these issues and done their home work.

    I went there totally against the Red Bay idea and they have not exactly changed my mind yet but I no longer believe that George Town is the correct place. I did not realise that Downtown had such healthy and active reefs. People always said it was dead out there. Now I look out there and actually see all the cruise ship passenger sea activity that will be gone when they dredge there. That part does not seem to make much sense. Killing the snorkeling and diving there.

    I am waiting for the Government to issue the EIA on the reefs downtown and the impact to Seven mile beach sand before I finally decide however on the other points like safe berthing and an all weather port location, Red Bay does seem to be the much better choice, I must now admit.

    • Anonymous says:

      What about the south sound reefs ? And the nursery there is equivilant to the north sound. They complained about the dredging of one simple canal. And now they want to dredge the whole area. How is that for logics, go figure.

  14. anonymous says:

    Thank God these good folks have not given up. I cannot imagine why so many of our people will happily spend $200M to $300M out there in George Town without even one look at this option. But the best of us is blinded by politics.

    Thank you Captain McCoy for trying. One day they will remember your idea. I just hope its not too late then. God Bless you.

     

  15. Anonymous says:

    This is the worst idea since the refinery.

    How is this still going on?

  16. Anonymous says:

    Jesus these Captains are like a bad rash that just won’t go away…

  17. Anonymous says:

    The Group of SEA Captains is ONE captain. Stop the smoke and mirrors and the games of hiding behind all the so call sea captains which are not there, bar one. Level with the people of this country and tell everyone who is really behind this project XXXXX

    • anonymous says:

      An Government island in the middle of Red Bay built by the Chinese, GLF or whoever berthing cruise ships and with no retail there,….how could that be helping anyone on shore. think man before you blabber. Please.

      • Anonymous says:

        Blabber is an interesting word choice, the Red Bay offers a guaranteed berthing facility that would be available in all normal weather conditions. A 5 minute ride to George Town or other locations could easily be accomplished and the ease to convoy people to Boddentown or the Eastern districts would open the country to further exposure.

        Please think before you respond.

    • anonymous says:

      If you had gone to the Seafarers hall meeting you would surely have seen more that one captain there in support of this idea. Captain McCoy spoke and it was his idea the final design of this thing. Dont be fooled that they are silent. they are there in the background I am sure.

      We need to have some trust in our own people. The chinese come with their design out in town and you all just swallowed it. hook, line and sinker. No questions. Government say lets spend $300M and give away the port including retail to chinese for 50 years. hook, line and sinker…no questions. what have we gotten to as a country?? $300 million??? and you still have the same northwester problems? Even Alden's schools were only $125M!!

      A tell ya wha….if de Captins are rite bout the traffic and floodin and killin dem George Town reefs out dere, den dog nam unnah supa. or should I correctly say "likkle doggi eati yi soo-pa"

  18. Anonymous says:

    The 3 docks proposed by this government concerns me as overkill. Having a 24/7 port in South Sound makes sense to me. There are those who are outraged at the idea but hopefully calmer heads will prevail.

    Dredging a hole near 7 mile beach off George Town concerns me as far as the natural movement of sand is concerned.

    The Captains mentioned this plan to Chuckie when he had the public meeting at the family life center but he ignored them. I am glad they have moved the plan forward.

  19. Bueller says:

    Yet another article on the Red (Bay) Herring? Give it a rest please CNS.

  20. Anonymous says:

    If only so many people had put so much effort into keeping our hotel’s instead of allowing them to be turned into condo’s or become derelict then maybe we wouldn’t have to be relying so much on cruise ships.

  21. anonymous says:

    Cns: "the local mariners and other supporters of the alternative have gone direct to those [FCCA] who will be using the facilities to see if they can gain support from them for the proposal."  I think that is a big mistake. Why would you want to give the impression that the government is hiding a better alternative?  That is deliberately protraying a negative image of the CI government to its cruise clients!  That is just wrong and is causing the FCCA to come AGAINST the government! 

    • Anonymous says:

      If they cannot get a word in edgeways with the government then yes go direct. These ships cost billions and the cruise people should know of a better solution. Not against government at all. Makes sense to me. What’s the big deal about George town anyway?? I for one would like to know.

      • Jamison says:

        You fail to see the seriousness of this happening. If the cruise ships do not come here, tourism for the Cayman Islands will drop. Burns and company will not feel a pinch because they already have the money.

        • anonymous says:

          And why giving them an all weather, guaranteed berthing every week of the year in Red Bay cause them to go away??? Where is your logic???

           

        • Mi wan sum 2 says:

          you mean they have more money than the Kirks and Darts downtown who are pushing this dock idea in George Town???  come on now, I don't believe that for one second.

    • Anonymous says:

      Maybe government should not keep hiding a better idea!! Ever thought of that?

    • Whats to Hide? says:

      What is to fear??  Why would the "FCCA come against the Government" if this is a bad idea??

      You seem to fear that the idea might in fact be a very GOOD idea. If it is then I DO hope the FCCA comes "against" our government. It is actually their billion dollar ships and their passengers we are playing with!!!

    • Anonymous says:

      Truth hurts when your a fool.

      • Who da fool says:

        You’re a fool, not your a fool… At least we know who really is da fooooool!!!
        Gramatization…
        Not a word, a concept against ignorance!!

    • anonymous says:

      Maybe if the Government had given the Captains the time of day they would not have to take such drastic steps. Ever thought of that?

  22. Anonymous says:

    Look around the Caribbean, ports that depend on busing visitors to the downtown shopping areas are not popular or successful. It does not make sense.

    • Anonymous says:

      Yep you are correct..NOT!

      Look at St Thomas. The busiest retail port. All bused. Look at The ports in Mexico. Bused. Look at San Juan. Bused etc etc. Could go on. Only a stubborn government would create the pending problems downtown. The good news is these problems will start to show up just before the next elections. Think the Captains will get the last laugh.

    • anonymous says:

      This is simply not true. Do some research.

    • Anonymous says:

      The places to which you refer have much greater distances. It is onlt several miles to George Town from South Sound

  23. Anonymous says:

    I bet this is the same bunch of "Ever so environmentally concerned citizens" who protested the dredging of the _NORTH SOUND_ ya?  they protested because dreding the north sound actually brought revenue potential to the COUNTRY

    The south sound make over, sounds like its more about profit to individuals.

    Bunch of opportunists.

     

     

    • anonymous says:

      How could a government project out in middle of Red Bay done by the Goverment (& Chinese) on "Queens Bottom" be about profit for anyone but the people of the Cayman Islands? No one promoting this thing can make anything out of it. Its a government project! They are just saying "here is a better option for you to look at instead of problem-prone GeorgeTown-take the idea and analyse it".

      However, if you are talking about revenue potential for islands then Red Bay will win that hands down.  25 Mega Yachts, 24/7/365 berthing in safe harbour, guaranteed cruise arrivals, fill for roads and airport extension, protected marina, etc.etc.

      Fellow Caymanians consider working together FOR us all, country first…for once. Please.

  24. Anonymous says:

    This is the most idiotic proposal I've ever heard.

    The communitity  was in uproar about a 30 foot residential canal, but people now are scilent about destroying the majority of the SS reef (a current marine park and replenishment zone)

     

    Its utter non-sense, or could it have to do with some significant protential land value increases by transforming the resendential area into commecrcial zoning for certain individuals?

     

    All of a sudden, no protests….. Hmmmmm.

    The idea is absolutely IDIOTIC!!!

     

     

    • Anonymous says:

      You guys are still on about increasing property values for someone when there are thousands of undeveloped acres out there owned by so many? still on about potential of rezoning? come on- you guys can do better than that. surely.

      Try to find and post a real good and technical reason why George Town is better that Red Bay. I dare you to. Personal bashing and greedy developer comments will get you nowhere this time fortunately. Talk about reefs, talk about environment, talk about traffic, talk about onshore flooding, talk about passenger experience, talk about income for country, talk about guaranteed berthing every day, talk about denting billion dollar ships, talk about something that we can see why GT is better and makes sense. Please.

      Let me hear your real reasons…..oh….as I thought…just cant find many can you? The Pied Piper syndrome its called. Follow blindly just look out for the cliffs my folks, look out for the cliffs.

  25. Anonymous says:

    I'm not backing either proposal but doesn't anyone wonder why CIG never did this before trying to force through the George Town development.

    There's a good reason – the response, or more accurately lack of one, would have killed the cruise berth project stone dead.

    The Captains deserve credit for one thing – they are not afraid to undertake a realistic feasibility study of their plans, which is a heck of lot more than you can say for CIG/CHEC.

     

  26. Anonymous says:

    Can someoe please explain the logic here;

    "With as many as 70% of the cruise passengers coming off the ships going straight on to excursions, the certainty of four oasis class of ships every day will ensure that the George Town merchants will do better business.”

    If they go to excursions, they wont shop in GT to shop seeing as time spent on execursions accounts for 90% of a cruise passengers time in port. What happens to all the retails space in GT?

    How did they come to the conclusion that SS is safer than Spotts, they are 1/2 mile apart?

    Has anyone in SS been asked if they agree with this proposal? Land value will plummet.

    Does Renee Hislop agree, seeing as his new Emerald Sound project will be directly opposite this. I can see the throngs of peple queing up to buy a view of a cruise port.

    The Replishment Zone will obvioulsy be wiped out. Good bye conch and lobster. Better get em while you can now.

    Will this be Hurricane friendly, need we remember what happended to SS in Ivan.

    Traffic will be an absolute nightmare (just look at it now).

    Care to comment Burns?

    • Burns Conolly AIA says:

      Happy to comment:

       

      1. No retail space is being provided dockside at Red Bay.  The tours can deposit the folks in town afterwards and have the shuttle take them back to the ship- I have done that elsewhere. Or the shuttle can take the passengers directly from the ship to GT where they will have a much better experience. Works either way. The problem I see now is the latest proposal adds a tremendous amount of retail ON the dock in GT. That, in my opinion, will be a lot more harmful to all retail merchants there than the Red Bay proposal, particularly for those on the southern side of Hog Sty Bay.

       

      2. Red Bay is safer because the ships will be berthed behind a breakwater and tied to a dock. At Spotts the ships remain in deep ocean water outside of reef and require tendering, which at the best of times, is dangerous. You will notice that some of last month's ships bypassed Cayman because the swells at Spotts were too great. Of course GT was useless on those days and will continue to be so for 20-30 days a year. These days also occur in the high season which makes it even more impactful.

       

      3. The Captains have given 3 public presentations and all were welcome to attend. We have gotten a few comments from some residents. There is no reason that land values will fall. The few buildings in Red Bay that look out directly at the berth are the only ones potentially affected. 

       

      4. We have not asked Rene directly although He is my company's client. His only comment to me was a "wait and see" response.  BTW, Emerald Sound is completely inland project is not overlooking the sea. One cannot see the water from there.

       

      5. The replenishment zone will not be wiped out in fact it may be improved ironically. As Red Bay would now be protected from hurricane and storm events the bay will be a better long-term habitat. Every storm now wipes out the habitat there. DOE has confirmed to us that in the 25 years of it being a replenishment zone the lobster and conch counts have merely stabilized not increased.

      The proposal calls for an 'island' in the middle and leaves a sheltered habitat all the way around it. Additionally, the breakwater is a perfect lobster and fish habitat. The area where ships berth will no longer be considered a habitat nor would work as one. However, more importantly environmentally, ALL of the snorkeling and recreation activity in GT will be lost. Eden Rock, Balbao, Devils’ Grotto, Cheeseburger reef, etc. In other words, everything that you can see now between the shore and the ships-gone. A much greater economic loss of the environment occurs in GT.  Not as simple a decision as it would appear.

       

      6. See drawings on “www.caymancruiseport.com”– yes it will not only protect the berthing but also the homes and property onshore as well.

       

      7. Traffic will not be a nightmare. There will be an additional 4 lane road built. In fact those living in East End, North Side and Bodden Town will have a second route through to GT. No longer will the bottleneck at Grand Harbour exist. The "Old Prospect roundabout" was located with this concept in mind. See drawings of the proposed roads that are a part of the concept. This design will also allow the eastern districts to have access to some of this cruise business and spread the tourist across the island.

       

      The Captains have reviewed all these issues you mentioned, visited the relevant government departments and had discussions with stakeholders prior to making the proposal which is why they know this is a superior idea to GT.

       

      When you add the REAL traffic mayhem downtown when we double the passengers that come off there, when you imagine what will happen for 3 years while they knock down Royal Watler and rebuild it, when you imagine the deep 40-50 foot water and northwester waves coming up to shore channeled by a NW pointing pier there, what our country is about to consider building in GT requires a good review.

       

      Hopefully logic will prevail.

       

  27. Anonymous says:

    One of the main negatives toward the South Sound proposal is the downtown area that is built for the cruise shippers getting them there to shop. This could easily be worked out by shuttling the people directly to down town from South Sound and not via South Church Street. Thereby protecting the South Sound community from needless traffic. The vast majority of the South Sound community would not realize this port was even there.

    • Anonymous says:

      Shopping?  In downtown GT?  Shopping for what may I ask?  All the stores the cruise ship visitors would want to go to are along WB Road – most cruise ship visitors aren't looking for diamonds and watches as they can't afford them.  I only wish downtown GT did have some decent shopping and dining facilities!

      • Anonymous says:

        Wait until the Chinese get here, the price of Rolex watches will drop considerably!

    • anonymous says:

      I agree they would not know. The Sea Captain's proposal completely bypasses South Sound and the residential roads in the area as the Red Bay Cruise port traffic flies over the South Sound road enroute to the Lindord Pierson hyway and the bypass system.

    • Anonymous says:

      Shuttling them directly downtown from SS involves South Church St. last time I checked, its the most direct route possible.

      • Anonymous says:

        Not at all.  The location of the proposed dock is directly opposite Hurley's Grand Harbor with a proposed link to the Linford Pierson Highway. This connects to Bobby Thompson Way onto the Annie Huldah Booden to Thomas Russel Round-About then to the major improved Elgin Avenue and voila! before you know it, you're in George Town proper, never having touched South Sound at all.  I suspect that businesses in the Hurley's Grand Harbor area will blossom, which will be great for them but the main duty free shopping will remain right where it is now; bustling George Town! 

        Hopefully the powers that be will see through the wisdom of this choice for a safe Harbor.

        • Anonymous says:

          Yup, and have you seen the bumper to bumper traffic at these locations every morning and night in the rush hour doubling the journey time to and from work?  Add to that all the buses that would be required to transport the cruise shop passengers into town or off to the East End and the rest of us will have to set out for work hours earlier than we already do, and do you think the cruise ship passengers will enjoy sitting in all that traffic trying to get into town with the rest of us?

      • Anonymous says:

        Transporting from South Sound will involve a fleet of 500 mini buses…at about 25ft. each this translates to about 12,500.ft. of bumper to bumper steel serpent winding its way to and from Gt and beyond…the rest of us will have to crawl in the same traffic getting our kids to school, getting to work and so on.

        Anyone thinking out there in Captain land…?

         

        • Anonymous says:

          While you have your calculator out tell me how would you get all that traffic out of George Town on two single lane roads? North Church Street and Fort Street.

          If 70% of the folks leave town to go on tours immediately, and the number of passengers double to 24,000 and they leave in two lanes of road, how long is that 'bumper to bumper train? How long is it at 2pm on way back? How many minutes will they actually have to shop?

          If the Grand Harbour's roundabout is now taking 37,000 vehiclular trips per day (NRA) on 2 lanes each way how many more vehicles can go down the 4 additional lanes proposed? hmmm. Could your calculator have just told you at least twice or 37,000 more trips. And that is only the days we have cruise ships in.

          You would have to give every couple of tourists from Red Bay their own car for you to equal the traffic that is CURRENTLY at Grand Harbour.  Yes I do agree it is at certain times of day only but so is Grand Harbour's traffic now. Rush hours mainly.

          Some speak of red herrings….distributed traffic from Red Bay is far less intrusive than that traffic from downtown. Any calculator will tell you that.

           

           

        • Anonymous says:

          I have said this before the Captians expertise stops at the waters edge and they have no more knowledge of onshore logistics as the rest of us!

      • anonymous says:

        Look on "www.caymancruiseport.com" — South Church street is not used in fact it is almost impossible to get to it from the proposed road system.

      • Anonymous says:

        Part of the agreement would be that the cruise ship passengerswould not be shuttled through South Sound.

        • Who da fool says:

          Tell that to the taxi and bus drivers that defy the rules of the road every day…. Look how many take the bypass and shuttle our tourists through the slums of Eastern Ave and School Road to know they will all seek the fastest route and therefore the fastest buck, with a lot choosing South Church St and Sputh Sound Road. This is a nightmare on the making…

          • anonymous says:

            The Red Bay proposals call for a new and faster road system to Downtown. It will be built with the project using the fill from the excavation. No one will take the longer, winding road through South Sound, certainly not taxis and buses.

            In addition to that, the Eastern districts morning and afternoon school traffic will also be diverted away from SS making it a much calmer and safer village for the folks there. This benifits them more than they think, if they would not be so crazy with the NIMBY attitude. From South Sound main they cannot even see Red Bay only the one or two foreigners up by the Red Bay dock will even see them come and go.

    • Anonymous says:

      South Sound?  C'mon, how many buses would be needed to transport passengers off 4 Oasis class ships, let alone 1.  And all this especially in morning and evening rush hour?! Get real, its a complete non-starter, the logistics just do not work.

      • Anonymous says:

        your right.. but that creates a lot of business for somebody.. more buses and taxis.. riggghht. just what we need. lol

      • Anonymous says:

        There are only 2 Oasis class ships in existence (and no further planned or funded for next several years).  With or without a port, the odds of both needing to call on our port simultaneously are slim to none.  We will very likely indebt several generations of Caymanians with both current port plans without any guarantees of financial offset.

        • Who da fool says:

          Then why the hell are we building docks when we are told we have to to cater to these new Oasis ships… Happy if the two in existence skip Cayman and we will survive on the other smaller vessels. End of story.

  28. Anonymous says:

    That is disgraceful that the politicians don't want to listen to the people.  Hopefully they will throw this dock proposal around for another 15 months so we can vote them out before the mistake is made.

    • anonymous says:

      Hopefully the Cruise Lines will decide whether they want to continue to put the clients at risk at Spotts and have angry ones on board when they have to bypass!! However it is a shame that our Government and the Opposition would not even look at the presentation.

      Total disrespect to all those Caymanian seamen and their families who sacrificed so much for us to be where we are today. Many gave the ultimate sacrifice and never even returned to these good shores.

  29. Anonymous says:

    what a bunch of morons to still think south sound would be a good place for the dock………………..

    • Anonymous says:

      And you say that because town has been a good place this week where ZERO cruiseships docked.

    • anonymous says:

      Go to "www.caymancruiseport.com" and download/read the "Pros & Cons" document on both George Town and Red Bay. It is factual and gives the downside and benefits to both locations. 

      After you do that you can comment intelligently about the facts or which location is better.

    • Anonymous says:

      Our people need to travel and then they wil lunderstand what it means to have a dock/port outside of the city/capital.   In other parts of the world you have to travel from the port to the city or town/capital, whichever, for recreation and shopping.  What is wrong with freeing up downtown traffic and congestion and still have business as usual.    Some people complain that there is too much traffic on the roads when the cruise ships are in, as well as too many people holding up traffic trying to cross the streets.  This would be a better approach to the way we do business and enjoy the free and leisurely walks along the corridors.

      I am of the opinion that the tourists would enjoy their visit to the island.  They know what they want to do before they alight from the ship.  In my travels, I was bused for miles before even getting to a shopping centre.  I enjoyed the scenery and got a better understanding of cultural development  and what caused the country to progress.  

      I wish the captains every success in their endeavours. 

      • Anonymous says:

        Listen, I have a boat so i am clearly qualified to comment.  Put the cruise birthing facility in North Sound at Rum Point.  This is clearly the most convenient spot for all involved and will only require either a) driving everyong from Rum Point to SMB or b) forcing all the merchants to move out of GT and relocate to RP.

        They don't ask the astronauts where to locate the space station.

    • Anonymous says:

      Thank God government isn't taking on this bunch! While govt has its controversy regarding the chosen contractor etc I have little respect for these so called sea captains who are seemingly allowing themselves to be used by developer self interest individuals in this way. Being a sea captain does not qualify them to determine the right location for a berthing facility. Such a decision entails environmental and social impact which they are not qualified to determine.They are not politicians and do not represent the majority of Caymanians so they should shut up and stop meddling as should Burns. This is sickening.

      • anonymous says:

        The Truth usually hurts..doesnt it?

      • Anonymous says:

        Sea Captains ARE the ones who determine where the docks go and if it is safe to berth there. Ask FCCA who determines where their ships go. Their CEOs or their Chief Captains?

      • Anonymous says:

        18:59  Perhaps you should try becoming a Master Mariner and a Captain of a large ocean-going vessel before you decide whether they are qualified to judge where to berth their ship…