Rollover back on agenda

| 04/02/2013

immigration office_8.jpg(CNS): The minister with responsibility for labour has admitted that the interim government may need to examine the situation regarding Cayman’s work-permit limit policy before the May General Election following events in Bermuda. Last week Michael Fahy, the Bermudian home affairs minister, announced that the country was dropping its six year term limit on foreign workers — a policy similar to Cayman’s own seven year rollover policy. As a result, Rolston Anglin said, some recommendations would be coming before Cabinet shortly, but he pointed out that, given the minority government, any legislative changes would require the support of other members of the Legislative Assembly.

Although Anglin had previously indicated that there was still a lot of work to be done on any new legislation to address Cayman’s immigration policies and that it was very unlikely that any amendments would reach the floor of the Legislative Assembly before the election on 22 May, at Thursday’s press briefing he recognized that there may now be a need to move more quickly. In light of the decision by the Bermuda government, Deputy Premier Anglin, who is responsible for labour and financial services, said he did not want any of Cayman’s competition “getting ahead of us”.

He pointed out that the Cayman Islands had already begun dealing with the issue with the introduction of the term limit exemption permits at the end of 2011. This was a stop-gap measure to prevent a mass exodus of what could have been thousands of workers over an 18 month period. This was as a direct result of the significant number of new work permits issued in the wake of Hurricane Ivan which were due to expire from the end of 2011 through into 2013. This temporary measure will last until October this year, which gives the government some breathing time.

“I believe we are ahead of the curve,” Anglin said, adding that Cabinet was expecting some recommendations to change the law based on the work of the Immigration Review Team. But he said the new Cabinet would need to consult with other members of the Legislative Assembly.

Vibrant economies needed to recruit talented employees, he said, and Cayman needed to remain attractive but it was also important to balance both sides. While retaining and attracting talent was critically important, there was also a need to ensure local people remained involved in the economy.

Anglin added that Cayman needed to pay close attention to the situation in Bermuda but said major policy changes in immigration would need a wide remit to get through House. He said he hoped that all members would see this as critical and something they would be willing to move on to help Cayman remain competitive.

In previous debates in the Legislative Assembly Opposition Leader Alden McLaughlin has indicated the PPM’s support for the abolition of rollover. He said the party favoured dropping the term limit and allowing everyone who stays long enough to apply for permanent residency and use that application process as the point where decisions about who stays and who goes are made. This was also one of the recommendations of the review team.

The former UDP government commissioned the review and introduced the temporary extensions. Although the former premier has not spelt out what he wants to see, he had made it clear that the seven year rollover policy needed review. The only member in the country’s parliament that has been steadfast in his support for rollover and the need to apply and enforce the immigration law is the North Side independent representative, Ezzard Miller.

this suggests that the five member Cabinet should not have too much trouble canvassing enough votes to make a policy change before the General Election but with this parliament due to be prorogued on 27March it gives the interim government less than eight weeks to draft a major policy change to the law.

There are currently around 1,400 foreign workers who are still here post rollover on the extension permits who, according to the conditions of the TLEP, are not entitled to apply for permanent residency, though some believe that will be challenged in the courts. Whatever happens between now and May however, the business community is keen to see government address the ‘rollover problem’ well before October.

Meanwhile, in Bermuda, Fahy said that the decision was made there to help that jurisdiction grow its economy and was a “red-carpet approach, conveying that Bermuda is open for business”, as the term limit policy was considered a barrier to job creation.

Wrestling with the same problem as the Cayman Islands and the need to ensure local people are not marginalized with foreigners taking posts that qualified Bermudians could hold, the minister pointed out that work-permits would still be issued for set periods. When that time expires on those permit the jobs would have to be re-advertised and where a Bermudan qualified they would still be given priority. However, the new policy will allow those workers whose permits are renewed to remain in Bermuda beyond the six year limit.

Category: Politics

Comments (103)

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  1. Anonymous says:

    Why not offer residency to everyone who has been in Cayman for 5+ years and for others, get them to sign a letter that for not expecting residency, on the same lines that Bermuda has come up with.  Population growth is necessary for the economy to grow in Cayman.

    • Anonymous says:

      The population is growing exponentially even with rollover. Getting rid of it would destroy any possibility of a sustainable economy or society.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Rollover has to be thoroughly reviewed- it does have it's pros and it's cons.  However, Cayman or any other country HAS to follow any particular step that another country has taken.  Each country has it's own set of issues which each has to look at before following suit in another's actions.  Cayman is a small country but according to world views prospering.  Each year we have an increasing amount of children leaving school to find work which they are unable to.  Caymanians who are unqualified become so by three reasons:

    1) no opportunity is given them in the work force

    2) lack of help or incentive to further their education to gain higher qualification

    3) lack of desire to excel

    The latter seems to be the trend.  We must encourage our young people to go after bigger things/dreams and help them make it reality.  Their will always be a place for an expat I believe but more opportunity should be given those Caymanians wishing to fill a position.  Expats can always return home, Caymanians here cannot.  I have nothing against people coming here to make some money to help and better their lives and families abroad but again space and consideration must be given to those who are from here.  Caymanian children must have something to aspire to.

    • Anonymous says:

      Camanians are unqualified because no opportunity is given to them in the workforce??? What a joke! No help or incentive?  How many Camanians to you see doing ordinary jobs, working in bars or restaurants, construction, cleaning etc etc – no they think they are far to good to lower themselves! They expect the best choice of jobs even if they arent the best person to do that job – go and live in the real world and see what great jobs you get! The schools are great here , as good as the state schools in other parts of the world so stop making excuses for your lazy, stuck up Camanian youngsters who expect everythinig handed to them on  a plate. Camanian children do have something to aspire to and thats mostly thanks to the influence and help from the expats!!

       

  3. Anonymous says:

    Immigration policy should choose and refuse who comes to this island to stay. Those of you who think we should have an open door policy will live to regret it. filipinos who are working here for 7 years will come back after they spend one year off island because the money is good. A filipino making 1200 CI dollars per month can build a 10,000 US dollar house and would look better then a frank hall house . Jamaicans wouldn't want a house like that so they would need more money to build one bigger. But all in all it is not the people's fault if the laws of the land allow them to put 4 people or more to a room . If there were a law and enforced that no more then 2 adult people per room then you would see that they would need more money like us to live. But that is the problem, no laws and no enforcement. 

    So until we have a equal chance to live in our country without having to live like a sardine ROLLOVER,ROLLOVER.

    Minimum wage is still not up to cost of living . So all of these problems have to be solved before this ship can sail otherwise she will stay on drydock.

  4. Anonymous says:

    Its about time to increase the population in Cayman so that the vast amount of empty, unused land, even in prime locations, can be used, and the economy can prosper.

  5. Anonymous says:

    Its already too late for Cayman.

  6. Anonymous says:

    The manager of company X is from country Y. Several employees of company X have noticed that the vast majority of foreign workers at the company are also from country Y. The manager from country Y gets Caymanian Status and leaves company X. The new manager at company X is from country Z. Over time the same employees notice that the employees from country Y, that have not already received Cayman Status, are all being replaced bypeople from country Z (i.e. from the same country as the new manager at company X).

    While not disputing the need for expat workers, the question is… Are local companies getting the best possible expat for the money or are they getting the friends and fellow countrymen of the manager that is in charge at any given time?

    While being Caymanian is not a qualification it would appear that being from the same country as the manager in charge is most definitely a qualification.

    • Diogenes says:

      If you believe that an employer should be allowed to employ an expat if there are no suitably qualified Caymanians available – which your comment that being Caymanian is not in itself a qualification would suggest – then why should you care whether a private company employs someone from X, Y, Z or the rest of the alphabet, if a Caymanian is not available?  It's their business, after all, and an issue for their shareholders as to whether they get the best value for money, not you.

      If you are concerned  that private companies should get value for money, as you say, then you should be outraged at a system that forces them to pay for a work permit for expatriate labour even when there is no local labour to fill a vacancy. 

      If what you really mean is that a company that employs expatriates from the same country of origin as the manager's must by implication NOT be offering qualified Caymanians employment, even if you are right (and its circumstantial and anecdotal at best) the issue is surely one of enforcement of the laws.  The law is pretty clear, and whilst its the Immigration Department's duty to obtain evidence before granting a work permit, there is absolutely nothing to stop a qualified Caymanian who attempted to obtain such a job from complaining and having Immigration ensure that no breach has occurred. And people certainly do! 

      If you think that the hiring of same natioalities is somehow evidence that Immigration must be failing to do its job, rather than doing its job and simply not caring as to the country of porigin as long as qualified Caymanians have not been denied the job, as the law prescribes, what are you suggesting as an alternative?  More laws?  A law that says that not only can you not hire an expat unless you have tried and failed to find a qualified Caymanian, but the expat cannot be from the same nationality as his manager – please!  More rules to deal with a complaint that the existing ones are not being enforced. SMH. 

       

       

      • Anonymous says:

        Now that is a truly stupid comment. If employers are claiming to make employment decisions purely on the basis of the merit of the individual candidate and not on the basis of nationality, and that Caymanians are not employed because they are not the best candidates, then OBVIOUSLY a pronounced tendency to employ persons of one's own nationality refutes that. It is a clearindication of bias.That's why we should care.   

      • Anonymous says:

        When you throw a stone into a pig pen the one who squeals is the one who got hit.

  7. Anonymous says:

    Caymanians should BE ALLOWED to decide what future they want for their country. The big problem that has existed for at least the last 20 years is the fact that the direction that the country has taken has been mostly controlled by local and foreign special interest groups and not truly by Caymanians. This has resulted in the failed immigration policies that are at the heart of the problems that we have today. What is good for Bermuda is not always good for the Cayman Islands. XXXX

    • Anonymous says:

      Yes yes.  We know what you want.  If all jobs required little or no skill or experiance then your way would work fine.  Failure for you means businesses can thrive.

      • Anonymous says:

        "If all jobs required little or no skill or experiance then your way would work fine."

         

        The racist in you just could not hold itself back.

  8. Caymanian by status says:

    Truth, and no hope:  The system is flawed.  I came as an expat a decade ago and now I have status and a great CV.  I previously held a position and left on good.  I cannot get my old job back and a Canadian who has done nothing for the community holds my job.  Will they pay my mortgage?  I'm locked in and cannot go back….stuck between a rock and a hard place.

  9. Anonymous says:

    There is literally no part of our immigration policy that is "ahead of the curve". Cayman has been set back years, if not at least a decade, by these policies. The time has more than passed for the situation to be rectified. We can't be a successful country with a successful economy if hardworking, qualified people are being sent away simply because of their nationalities. Its not a wonder that we are suffering so much at the moment – all the government acheived with the rollover policy was cutting the country off at the knees.

    • Anonymous says:

      Leaving aside any pros and cons of rollover, a policy that applies to the private sector but not to Government MUST have something wrong with it. I cannot understand why Caymanians have not pushed to implement it in thevarious government entities. Why is the civil service association not pushing for rollover  in government? Too busy doing nothing.

    • Anonymous says:

      Cayman is going, going gone, this place is no longer the desired place it once was, most people with the financial means no long consider Cayman the place to live. The islands is now full of economic migrants that are displacing Caymanians out of jobs and the standard of living is just one level above third world.  It does not matter now if the government keep or get rid of the rollover policy most of the good people are gone and won't return, not to mention what is about to happen in a few months when the USA pass there tax laws many of the mutual funds will be history and so will many of the jobs that  are of value so, get rid of the rollover policy and let in about 250 thousand people in the islands to keep the economy growing we will need them.
        

    • Anonymous says:

      It is not 'simply because of their nationalities'. 

    • John Henry says:

      will someone say what are the skill levels and qualifications of our unemployed Caymannians.  Without knowing this we cannot comprehensively start to review and match skill levels to permits on hand or subject to future review.  This is neccesary to create a meaningful and sustainable dialogue with employers and not the reckless back and forth between expat and natives.  Lets solve the problem together 

  10. Anonymous says:

    The only thing the rollover policy did was make us swap Jamaicans for Philippinos – and if you ask me, I'll take a Jamaican over a Philippino any day of the week. At least Jamaicans spend money and contribute to the economy of the island; Philippinos will rent one 3 bedroom house and then put 30 of their family members in it. Jamaicans are constantly buying things on island and flying back and forth from Jamaica to Cayman and while some of their revenue may get sent back home, it is a much smaller percentage than what gets sent back to the Philippines. As a Caymanian, I have no problem saying "bring back the Jamaicans!"

  11. Anonymous says:

    The process needs to start with government.  When the example is made,, then the private sector will have to follow.  Do whatever it takes to get the ball rolling and stand up and be counted.

    We have been thrown under the bus too many times, now show your colours and demand a change.  Follow the leader, leader, leader.

  12. Anynomous says:

    Immigration isnot the fall of this country.  It is the Governments, Those going back for about 20 years.  Caymanians are without jobs and the governmet is only trying to cover it up.  Social service has 75% foreigners on their pay roll, paying rent electricity water and giving the a big pile of money for food.  The poor Caymanians are only getting a meagre 40.00 a week for food.   Blame the government who run this country for anyone who is in a job that a Caymanian can do.  Putting in new faces in May is not going to change anything.  So do not be fooled by their fancy speeches..

  13. Anonymous says:

    Well, a WOMAN is running the show right now so deal with it!

  14. St Peter says:

    Let me comment on the rollover while I am sitting here waiting for the Caymanite Pink ad to flash again..

    I think the rollover should stay in place because….

    Wait. The ad flashed again…

    Be right back after I order a Plus Size G-String for my GF…

    • ODB says:

      Why does she never look over at me?  What is so interesting over there?  Is she running in the election?  I would vote for her.

    • Anonymous says:

      Trouble is that whilst you are waiting you have to look at Roy McTaggert or Winston Connolly!

      • N Somniac says:

        If Roy had a body like Miss Caymanite Pink, I would give it some serious consideration.

  15. Anonymous says:

    Really? Someone should tell that to the Bermuda Sun which appears to think that the real unemployment rate in Bermuda is nearer to 14%

    http://bermudasun.bm/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&ArticleID=61459

    You are missing the point of Rollover if you it no longer matters once you reach a certain (temporary) unemployment rate. Rollover is essentially about controlling the numbers who will gain permanent rights and therefore voting rights and the ability to chart the course of these Islands.   

     

  16. Anonymous says:

    all roll-over did was make the expats despise the caymanians even more and workplace harmony went out the door.

    Making Life in the coporate world of Cayman, a living hell. All you could hear everyday is the expats complaining about the policy then giving you the stink-eye, every chance they got.
     

    • Anonymous says:

      This is so true – the office that I worked in was essentially torn apart by the rollover policy. Expats were bitter about it and it showed and in return, the native Caymanians were foolhardy and cocky about the islands' laws. I never thought I would see the day when such blatant prejudice would be seen on our island and let me tell you, the immigration laws did that basically over night.

  17. Anonymous says:

    thye should keep the rollover policy… for caymaniains!….. a year abroad might open their eyes to the real world……

  18. Anynomous says:

    We need a MAN to run this country.  Truly one with a strong mind.

  19. Anonymous says:

    Rollover is a failure, approved only by  political and economic dinosaurs like Ezzard and those who wanted to keep out Jamaican domestics and labourers. It is a lose/lose mechanism. Abolish it.

    • Anonymous says:

      Rollover is absolutely essential at every level. Don't let panic or greed blind you to what the outcome will be if there is no Rollover – huge numbers of people displacing Caymanians from their jobs. 

    • Anonymous says:

      That’s why Ezzard is so dangerous

  20. Anonymous says:

    you wasted 3 and half years…and now you expect us to believe you will do something in the next couple of months????

    too little too late for cayman….. the rollover policy has set cayman back 10-15 years…thats if it ever recovers…

    • Anonymous says:

      Yep, this guy personally told me that he had 4 years to deal with things and he wasn't rushing anything.  Well looks like you better rush it now ole boy.  The clock is ticking away.

  21. Anonymous says:

    ahead of the curve???….but has to wait till bermuda make a move…..zzzzzzzz

  22. Caymanian Concern says:

    The Immigration Department has to stop the buddy-buddy favors and go back to giving white collar qualified jobs to our own qualified people. 

    Sorry, but I know of too many Caymanians with excllent degrees and perfect resumes that are still unemployed while European and North Americans hold their jobs and are renewed every single time their permit comes up.  Name one of the top ten businesses in Cayman and each one has at least three examples.

    If you know of a person in power on one of the Immigration Boards, tell them to stop the politics and get every single qualified Caymanian back to work.

    Favortism fuels this….Go back to low or no unemployment rates and the problem is solved.

    Publish every decision so we can finally name and shame and tar & feather you for woefully passing up your own people for the favor of corporate pals?

    • Anonymous says:

      OK go on then.

      Name those top 10 busiensses and I will make it easy on you…name 2 of the three examples you say exist at each of them. Then lets see how their cvs / the job requriements stack up against the qualified Caymanians that you seem to think are sitting at home unemployed when they could be credible candidates for those roles.

      ZZZZZZ

    • Anonymous says:

      Well they need to start with removing members of these Boards who hire people illegally themselves in their companies!

      • Caymanian Concern says:

        Okat 6:33, I agree with you.  We need transparancy with these boards.  Both issues are sad but true and again it is cronyism.

        I'll accept that non-qualified Caymanians have pushed out loyal expats due to favors and also that qualified Caymanians are ignored for WP renewals because it is easier to keep the person in the job.

        The boards need to be shamed.

    • Anonymous says:

      And I also know of many excellently qualified Expats who were fired or had their work permits not renewed in favour of an under-qualified Caymanian. I happen to be one of those people, and I was unemployed for over a year; thankfully I had the financial security to stay in Cayman and ended up doing some traveling while trying to figure out my next step. Right as I thought I was going to be forced to leave the island, the company that I had worked with so loyally for 7 years called me back because they realised the mistake they had made in firing me over a non-qualified Caymanian.

      • Anonymous says:

        You knewabout the employment policy in Cayman, but you acted shocked when it happened to you? There's a sense of entitlement among most expats I meet that they have a right to work here.  I doubt many of them have worked in other countries other than their own, and here.

      • Anonymous says:

        You are lucky you had somewhere to go.  Unlike the Caymanians who want to live and work in their own home cannot have the luxury that you have making a fat salary and not having the decency to train a non qualified Caymanian as stated.  The audacity of your comments as if Cayman owes you something.  Get a life outside of the Island and complain there.  From whence you came from immigration issues are also problems and not unique to here hence why you may have left.  

    • Anonymous says:

      Intitled much?

  23. Cayman Culture says:

    Ahead of the curve Anglin?  Try way behind, so shame-shame on you.  Waiting for Bermuda to act first has lost all your credibility, but our sad government moves slower than the turtle for sure. Don't blame the recent divided government, not one politician has earned thier paycheck for the last decade, period.  

    We need to make Caymanattractive for international businesses, but at the same time get back to our zero percent unemployment of the 1980's and 1990's.

    The ONLY was to do this is to stop the rollover and go back to being a white collar attractive place to live (and welcome qualified expats to live and retire here as every single body helps the local economy) and finally offer and train vocational skills for our locals.

    Next, take drastic, hard, and very fast steps to eradicate our appalling illiteracy rate.  It was embarrasing to hear the minister "cook da books" figures at the Business Outlook meeting last week.  Come on, be a man…fess up, tell the truth and then kick some backside at the bloated Education Department to fix this 3rd world problem.  (Yet the budget  spent for each child in Cayman is more than New York City?)  Awful, heads should roll starting with the Admin and chopping the education system's dead wood.

    Until the government makes education priorty number #1 we will always need expats and our homegrown population will be second rate.  Start churning out electricians, AC techs, nurses, and professionals…..Oh unless the politiicans LIKE taxi cab drivers and boat operators….wait, they DO, make the p[ublic rely on you and stay ihn power> That has been the motive for too many years.  Wake up Cayman, politicians keep you down and dumb for control….take control back and demand better education.  

    Immigration is not the main problem, our local employment product is.

    • Anonymous says:

      you people have to stop blaming the politicians. The various councils are given laws and authority to carry out the works of the country, they have failed ypou miserably. it's easy to point fingers at the politicians.

      CIAA board cant get the redevelopment of the cayman Brac airport off the ground. they don"t even have the construction plans approved, after planning this for over two years, they have the money, so what is holding this project up?…incompetence!!!

      The Owen Roberts airport.; not even an advert placed in the local paper inviting architecs to tender on the drawings. seems like they been looking at a conceptual drawings that is 10 years old…already out of date, we need professionals that can  design a proper airport plan to take us into the next 30 years…nothing done…incompetent.

      Immigration department: have knowledge that over 2 thousand are unemployed.. they continue to issue work permits. first country in the world where there is no inforcement department convicting people of breaking the laws,  .incompetent!!

      I could go on and on.

  24. Anonymous says:

    People who are inclined to say that because Bermuda has dropped their term limit provision in their immegration bill, then so should Cayman follow suite, should study the statistics carefully. The rollover popicy has done it's work for Bermuda. In 2011 the unemployment in Bermuda was down to 2.5% and in 2012 it is down further to 2%. Bermuda can now afford to drop the provision.

    This is not the case in the Cayman Islands where unemployment is between 8 to 12 % depending on who you ask. When unemployment in the Cayman Islands gets down to 3 or 4% I will have no problem supporting removing the term limit, however we have not allowed it to work without changes with the required 7 years it was designed to bring results.

    I wholeheartly agree with anyone who argues that there are other ways the unemployment can be addressed by the private sector (NOT GOVERNMENT) but the reality does not in any way meet the expectation as evidenced by the high unemployment figures. Private sector bosses must take their responsibilities in this regard more seriously by actively recruiting Caymanians who are qualified for any position they are now filling with a work permit.

    No one is asking Company bosses to get rid of a large precentage of their qualified and trained staff just because they are on a work permit. There are over 25,000 people now on work permits in the island. If only 10% of these are constructively replaced with qualified Caymanians, our unemployment will be below 4% and we can seriously start the conversation about eliminating the rollover popicy. This does not only apply to white collar executive positions, as everyone is not cut out to be an executive, but, by God, we have work permits issued for every strata of work, from CEOs to secretaries to construction to gardeners to garbage men so surely there is work for everyone no matter your qualifications.

    In short what I am saying is, make an effort to retain 90% of our work permit labor force, employ 2,500 Caymanians in all walks of life and we will have NO need for a roll over policy, but, it will take the work of both the private sector and Government to get to that point.

    • Like It Is says:

      I only listen to views on immigration from people who can spell "immigration".

  25. Anonymous says:

    Monkey see – monkey do!!

    Bye bye RollOver.

    • Anonymous says:

      Cayman had followed Bermuda's foot steps in introducing the roll over, so why not also follow in aboloshing it – before it is too late!!

  26. Anonymous says:

    ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzz zzzzzz. Zzz. z

  27. Anonymous says:

    Foreigners living in Cayman are necesarry as they boose the local economy.

    Not only do guest workers bring skills and expertise but remember — they rent our homes and apartments, dine in our restaurants, shop in our stores, buy motor bikes and cars, consume energy and generally help to support our economy at many levels. Their mere presence helps to create and sustain jobs.

    So what is the point in just changing the expats, making A leave and letting B come in.  We as well retain A as he/she has already contributed to the economy/society and will also continue to do so. 

    • Anonymous says:

      Boose….nice one

    • Anonymous says:

      Because they must then be given permanent rights and eventually the right to vote. They will then control the destiny and future of Cayman and Caymanians wil be marginalised. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?.  

      Caymanians are doomed if we abolish Rollover completely.

      • Anonymous says:

        Caymanians would be doomed even if they don't abolish the rollover, as they have already started to.  Look at the economy!!

         

        As for permanent rights, there can be laws to allow only qualified persons, who score  minimum points or anything similar,  granted the residency.

        • Anonymous says:

          The economy has been destroyed by the importation and granting of permanent rights to thousands of unskilled persons who cannot support themselves as a result of us not having rollover previously.

  28. Anonymous says:

    This policy is long overdue an overhaul. It provides no consistency of employment which can make employers and employees alike nervous. Ex-pats must also have the same rights as locals in appealing decisions in an open way, and being able to address "complaints" that are not real or are ficticious that are frequently made to immigration for no real reason other than that person dos not like someone, rather than the merit or qualifications the position requires.

  29. Whodatis says:

    If the anonymous CNS postings are the true feelings and opinions of some expats living amongst us – I would say we are well justified in our implementation and continuation of a rollover policy.

    Frankly, I don't want my (wholly) Caymanian kids growing up in a Cayman alongside their poisoned (technically) Caymanian kids.

    (I have a few nieces and nephews enrolled at one of our exclusive private schools and the things that come out of the mouths of some of their Cayman-born classmates of expat parentage is frightening and downright disgraceful.)

    Furthermore, where in this world does one receive such guarantees of long-term employment? E.g. The average job tenure in the UK is around 4 years. How many expat workers in the UK have any level of government assurance that they will be welcome in the country for such a period of time?

    I understand the concerns on the other side of the debate, but we must keep a long-term view as our guiding light in this issue.

    E.g. Have we forgotten the great land sale of prime beachfront property by Caymanians to foreigners in the 1950's, 60's and 70's? Clearly it "made sense" and was the advisable thing to do at the time – but, considering what that area has become today, many have lived to regret those decisions.

    As I have said before, many of us seem to want to address and "solve" every issue as a matter of urgency. Time is long folks, and these decisions will effect our generations to come – similar to how the aforementioned land sales negatively impacts many of us today.

    I have no objection to expat workers emigrating to Cayman in search of a life better than they could ever imagine in the UK, USA or Canada, however, I am primarily concerned about how that mass immigration will effect my fellow Caymanians – something for which I make absolutely no apologies.

    Furthermore, never before has Cayman experienced such a high percentage of expat workers and its accompanying levels of production, however, never before have Caymanians been in such a state of disarray as well.

    In any decent society, that should be Concern No. 1 for all contributors, history shows us this, but unfortunately this is not the case. (Just toclarify, none of this comes as a surprise to me.)

    The unrelenting rhetoric is that of; "we need more of the same in order to imrpove the situation".

    I beg to differ.

    Personally, I am even willing to absorb a "hit" on certain industries if necessary. Clearly our blind support of them have not resulted in a better existence for our own people, therefore what is the damn point of it all?

    Why should a few of us Caymanians live comfortably as more and more of our family and friends continue to suffer.

    Until counter-efforts to our current ills (training, education, programs, opportunities, decrease-in-CIG-dependence-on-work-permit-fees) are firmly established, I support all mechanisms of "protection" of my fellow Caymanians in their own country.

    • Anonymous says:

      Get on your hip waders… it's getting deep.

       

      Wholly and technically – so laughable!

       

       

    • Anonymous says:

      Look up the different meanings of "effect" and "affect".  You've used "effect" twice when you meant "affect".

      • Anonymous says:

        grammar is the least of his problems……

      • Whodatis says:

        Many thanks for pointing it out.

        However, I am yet to respect your opinion.

        Do you have any thoughts on the actual issues being discussed?

         

         

        • Anonymous says:

          No I don't but I do have an opinion on your use of the comma.  I suppose that if you scatter them randomly the odd one will land in the right place.  A comma is only put before a conjunction if that conjunction joins two independent clauses.  

          • Whodatis says:

            So … you're a grammar master that fails at at comprehension.

            How nice.

            • Anonymous says:

              "who fails" would be better style than "that fails".

            • Anonymous says:

              I think the problem has less to do with the comprehension skills of others and more to do with the lack of clarity in your posts.  

        • N Somniac says:

          He demands respect but does not seem to show any to others.

        • Anonymous says:

          The poster's opinion is that your grammar is not up to snuff.   I think it's an important issue too.

    • Anonymous says:

      And I support the withdrawl of the UK taxpayers overdraft facility to the Cayman Islands government. I support my peoples right to decide which bunch of lazy, corrupt ingrates they give their hard earned money to and plough it back into our own unemployed and aged population.

      You talk as if Cayman had a stable population of any significance in the 70's. There were just over 10,000 individuals in total on these islands, where do you think all of the 'Caymanians' you so wistfully talk of came from?

      Trust me, you're not that fertile or energetic, ask most expat colleagues who have the misfortune to work with young Caymanians who have little or no work ethic. Hopeless, pure and simple. 

      Greed and self interest motivated you then as it does still, it was you who were prepared to sell your souls to the developers taking easy money for little work and destroying your environment in the process. 

      No change there then.

      • Whodatis says:

        Re: "And I support the withdrawl of the UK taxpayers overdraft facility to the Cayman Islands government. I support my peoples right to decide which bunch of lazy, corrupt ingrates they give their hard earned money to and plough it back into our own unemployed and aged population."

        Well, you could just give it back to yourselves as that descriptions fits your "bunch" very nicely, my friend.

        Mind now, this is not my opinion, but that of your own British people.

        (But of course, you will never admit to it here on CNS -it's all about keeping up appearances … as usual.)

        🙂

      • Anonymous says:

        The UK taxpayers have not given any overdraft facility to CIG. You are misinformed.

    • Diogenes says:

      "Frankly, I don't want my (wholly) Caymanian kids growing up in a Cayman alongside their poisoned (technically) Caymanian kids."

      Well, I always knew that you had an issue with the colonialist UK – I hadn't appreciated that you were a straightforward bigot as well.  Your kids are "wholly" Caymanian because of what exactly?  A fewmore reproductive cycles than those children born here to first generation immigrants?  And children born to those of expat parentage are "poisonous" ?  Nothing to do with individual behaviours or the way they were brought up, right!  Assigning assumed behaviours and charatceristics to an entire group based on personal perceptions of a limited number is, I am afraid, the kind of thinking that you claim to deplore.  You should be ashamed.

      • Whodatis says:

        Ummm … you do realize that I am the offspring of an expat, right?

        If I truly believe the things you have accused me of I would be condemning myself and my entire family.

        By the way, it has everything "to do with individual behaviours or the way they were brought up" – that was the very essence of that aspect of my post.

        In any event, kudos to you for trying to gain brownie points on the most sensitive part of my post – and 'good job' on the spin and subsequent disingenuous outrage.

        Pathetic.

        • Anonymous says:

          I can assure you the outrage was quite genuine, and not at all disingenuous.  It would seem I was not the only one to be offended.  As for the "if I truly believe the things you are accusing me of" line, read your own words…

          "If the anonymous CNS postings are the true feelings and opinions of some expats living amongst us – I would say we are well justified in our implementation and continuation of a rollover policy.  Frankly, I don't want my (wholly) Caymanian kids growing up in a Cayman alongside their poisoned (technically) Caymanian kids.  (I have a few nieces and nephews enrolled at one of our exclusive private schools and the things that come out of the mouths of some of their Cayman-born classmates of expat parentage is frightening and downright disgraceful.)"
           

          If you did not mean to infer that the Cayman born offspring of first generation immigrants are poisonous, or somehow not "wholly Caymanian", you have your own drafting to blame. 

          • Whodatis says:

            (Sigh)

            It is not the fact that they are of expatriate parentage that renders them poisonous, admittedly, in my opinion. Instead, it is the way in which those particular expatriate parents (e.g. the parents of my niece / nephew's classmates) have raised their children that renders them "poisonous". (See my other replies for elaboration.)

            Are you really not understanding this?

            For goodness sake, I am of expatriate parentage, therefore according to your logic I automatically regard myself as poisonous?

            Anyway … my post addressed many far more important issues. If you feel like discussing those then we can continue this dialogue.

            If not, then we can respectfully draw this to a close … because I am done explaining this particular aspect of my post to the confused participants in the room.

        • Anonymous says:

          i feel sorry for you parents….

        • Anonymous says:

          If you are Caymanian by anything other than paper – I am the King of the World!

           

          Sorry Leo.

        • Anonymous says:

          The "offspring of an expat".  You make it sound so ugly…

    • Anonymous says:

      I have been supportive of your posts in the past, whodatis.  I have encouraged you to run for office.  You have just called my children "poisonous" because I am a first-generation immigrant, and for no other reason.  You have supported a stereotype that could have very serious consequences for all our children in future.  You have denigrated my country of origin, for the sake of base nationalistic pride.  Thank you.  I now know better who you are.  I will know better than to voice support for you in future.  

       

       

      • Whodatis says:

        As noted earlier – I would be condemning myself if I was to throw out blanket accusations in that way.

        I don't consider myself poisonous to Cayman society, nor the majority of my extended family … who come from expatriate parentage.

        The operative term in that part of my initial post is "some".

        I stand by what I said and again, I make not a single apology. There are simply some racist, bigoted and despicable people that now live in this country and encourage their children to segregate themselves from "Caymanian" kids … in Cayman!!

        This is simple truth.

        However, if some people want to take offense and choose to interpret my words in a way not intended, then that is on them.

        *What many of our newer expats fail to understand is that the vast majority of "Caymanians" are not full Caymanians – especially those aged 40 and under. However, it doesn't stop many from making their ignorant and disparaging remarks.

        Interestingly … this absurdity actually suggests something else may be at play. I wonder what … ??

         

        • Anonymous says:

          "….if I was to throw out…."

          Oh dear.  You should have used the conditional subjunctive: …If I WERE to throw out…

          The ellipsis (….) is used to show an intentional omission of words or phrases.  What was intentionally missing in your second paragraph?  May I suggest it was, "who are as misguided as I"?  Your two uses of it in the last sentence defies my comprehension.

          But as someone has already said, grammar is the least of your problems.

        • Anonymous says:

          Even older Caymanian were not Caymanians.  Unless Caymanians means expats from long ago who left their countries to find a better life like the ones of today.  But I digress.  We all know that Caymanians are really a club that you have to be invited into to join.

        • Anonymous says:

          I wonder what game you're playing?

           

          Your tales keep getting better and better.

           

          Great reading!

           

           

           

           

        • Anonymous says:

          You did say "some", yes.   In the next breath, you used the example of a few (posters on CNS, kids in private schools) to advocate for sweeping immigration laws that would apply to everyone.  Your "some" means very little in this context.  If you were suggesting that social or immigration measures be applied to ensure that new immigrants support a cohesive society (and get rid of the "some" who don't), you were unclear.  The fact that you bothered to write about the examples of "some" posters and "some" students at "one" private school at all — that of all the facts you could have supplied, you felt those were most pertinent to the discussion — speaks volumes about your intended meaning.   I could repeat things said by "some" of my ("wholly") Caymanian students that would make you throw up a little in your mouth, but I understand that these are individual students — children — and therefore not representative of most Caymanians or even (on most days) their own families.  I do not bring them up here as compelling reasons for immigration reform.

          I think what you meant (backpedal though you may) is that your family and your children are real Caymanians, having arrived sooner and having been here longer, while newer immigrants should be viewed as suspect by all.   That is a common view everywhere, unfortunately, and it will not do our community any good at all.   

          Suggesting that someone else is "absurd" or has "something else at play" based on their reaction to your words (instead of, say, examining where you may have been unclear yourself, or wrong-headed, or simply rude) is also a good way to create division.

          And if "newer" expats do not understand Caymanian society, that is partly to do with the rollover.  How much time do you spend with these new expats?  Do you make an effort to include them in your social life, to help them learn about your culture in a way that is respectful?  Probably not, and I understand why.  You have seen expats come, you have seen them go.  Over the course ofyour life, you have probably befriended many, only to watch them leave.  You have listened to their homesickness and felt that as a slight to your own country when really they were just new and lost and failing (yet) to understand.  You probably got tired of having to teach the same things over and over — same person, same complaints, different face.  I get it.  I've only been here 15 years, but I feel the same way.  Rollover only speeds this process up; there is a new crop every year.  It gets tiresome.  

          Understandable though it may be, however, it does fuel division and misunderstanding.   Many expats come here excited to spend time in a different culture and eager to meet locals, but it's not easy anymore.  And if you come and you don't feel welcome — but instead feel mistrusted and denigrated for the mistakes of other expats (see your original post!), you are hardly likely to feel a part of society, now are you?  

          You see? Two sides, whodatis.  There are always at least two sides.  And the fact that you are Caymanian (or partly, or wholly, or fractionally Caymanian) does not make your point of view more valid or ethical or right.  Try a little humility, maybe.  It might do wonders for your reputation.

           

           

           

      • Anonymous says:

        Join the club.  He is a Caymanian nazi.  Hitler would be proud.

    • Anonymous says:

      The fact that you don't approve shows that it is right for all the right reasons.  Please keep talking.

    • Anonymous says:

      If your children take after you in any way – either in outlook, mentality or intelligence – then I wouldn't want my 'wholly' Caymanian children growing up next to your 'wholly' Caymanian children.

    • Anonymous says:

      Last time I looked Cayman was BRITISH OVER SEAS TERETORY. Who are you to comment on how BRITISH soil should be run.

  30. Anonymous says:

    We need to do something about this rollover policy if Cayman is going to pull itself out of the financial hole we are in. Seven years is just a drop in the bucket for most in terms of establishing a life on the island and if we want to recruit intellectuals and highly skilled employees in order to diversify our economy then we have to reconsider the fact that we are inadvertently sending them away. I would love to use myself as an example – I have 2 degrees, both Bachelor's and a Masters, went to highschool on island ~15 years ago and lived in Grand Cayman for 10+ years until I went off island for my university careers. I was granted permanent residency without the right to work, after being denied my status application afterhaving lived on island for 11 years (at the time of my application). After returning to the island following the completion of my Masters, I was granted a work permit for 1 year which was then revoked for the following year because I had permenent residency without the right to work instead of with the right to work.

    How sad was I, I made this island my home – went off to school and had every intention of bringing my newly learned skills back to the island and was denied the opportunity to do so – not withstanding the fact that I had also purchased a house and a piece of real estate and was (and still is) a contributing member of the economy. Why was I denied? I am 100% positive that it was due to my Jamaican passport. Now, my home is barely rented out (and for a fraction of what a 4 bedroom home in George Town should be rented for) and my piece of real estate that I purchased is undeveloped. It is not any wonder that Cayman is having a hard time with the current economic climate – we are doing nothing to help ourselves, and instead pushing qualified, hardworking and positively contributing individuals away.

  31. Anonymous says:

    At last, Burmuda has realised what terminal damage such a policy can inflict on all who wish to live, work and settle on their islands. The same is happening here, but we have to realise that it is the best person for the job, a meritocricy and not a birthright to gain employment.

    Education is the only way to success, not who you know or where you happen to be born.

    If you don't match the educational standard, get a job for which you are qualified and don't whinge that foreigners are taking all the jobs.

    Remember, Caymanians can also serve in bars, restaurants and hotels, they can't all be bankers, lawyers and accountants.

    But then again, if the government really wanted full employment amongst its people, it would strictly enforce a minimum wage and reduce the reliance on the US tipping culture. 

  32. needlecase says:

    I think everyone in the House should get on board in abolishing an immigration law that is too arbitrary and has nothing to do with enforcing the right Labor Laws to see Caymanians get jobs. A mere recommendation for Cayman's seven-year term limit to be extended to 10 years and that all expatriate workers who stay for at least eight years be allowed to apply for permanent residence, will not do us any justice!  We have to get rid of the rollover policy PERIOD and allow skilled workers to remain here so we can have better business market and more job creations.  Bermuda is competing with the Cayman Islands, and can tell you, a mere 10 year extension wont do anything for us. Still you will have businesses closing their doors and leaving the jurisdiction, still you will have less monies circulating in the economy because of less people, still you will have Caymanians not getting jobs because "this" law really does nothing to change all of that!  Get rid of the rollover policy, enforce Caymanian First Preference, set up a job czar (if needed), and provide incentives for businesses that hire at least 40% of their staff Caymanian or Status Holders. We have to think like that, Bermuda means business, and we are still relying on leeching of private sector and people's hard earn monies, making laws arbitrary immigration blanket laws – shame!   

     

  33. Anonymous says:

    Take charge and deal with this and get rid of it. Let common sense guide you, a lot of respect will follow.