900 turtles killed for meat in 2012, CTF reveals

| 12/02/2013

TSTREETER Credit and Copyright Patrick Weir (2) (205x300).jpg(CNS): The Cayman Turtle Farm has said that over 900 turtles were killed in 2012 to satisfy the local demand for meat, which is only around 10%-15% of the animals held at the farm. However, stepping up the criticism of the WSPA campaign to change it into a conservation facility, the farm’s director said that if it did not supply this local demand, people would poach the animals from the wild. Criticising Cayman’s internationally renowned free diver, Tanya Streeter, for her support of the campaign, Tim Adam said the farm was “saddened” that Streeter, who grew up here, has chosen to align herself with the WSPA, “an organisation that appears to be fuelled by sensationalising, misleading information” about the CTF. (Photo by Patrick Weir)

“We are also disappointed that the WSPA appears to be continuing to expend its resources and funding on a promotional campaign to discredit the Farm, rather than working directly with us to support the improvements we are making in response to the inspection report, or even putting their resources into undertaking actual work in the conservation of sea turtles," Adam added.  “We would like to see evidence of tangible conservation efforts the WSPA has contributed on behalf of the Green Sea Turtle in the Cayman Islands.”

Claiming conservation credentials for the CTF, Adam said that Streeter, who was photographed (see above) swimming with wild turtles as part of the WSPA campaign, was able to do that in part because of the work of the CTF. “There are now many more sea turtles seen in the wild around Cayman than there were decades ago,” Adam said.  “The Cayman Turtle Farm has contributed significantly to that increase, making it possible for more visitors and residents to see turtles in the wild.”

He said data from the Department of the Environment shows an increase in the number of green sea turtles now nesting in Cayman, several of which, the director claimed, were released from the CTF.

The Turtle Farm provides legally farmed turtle meat, Adam said, reducing the incentive to take turtles from the wild than would be likely if local demand for turtle meat were not met from farmed stocks.

“A review of our turtle meat sales data shows local demand for turtle meat increasing significantly each year in 2011 and 2012.  For example, for 2012 it took over 900 turtles to satisfy local demand.  If the Cayman Turtle Farm does not supply the local demand for turtle meat … where does Ms Streeter or the WSPA suggest that amount of turtles will come from to allow Caymanians to continue eating turtles?” he asked.

According to the results of a freedom of information request, the numbers killed for meat over the last few years has declined from a high in 2008, when almost 1,700 turtles were slaughtered. The increase in price could have dampened demand for the meat but the stocks at the farm currently remain high. The farm has faced some difficulties in the past regarding its stocks but it is currently home to somewhere in the region of 7000-9000 animals. 

The row between the CTF and the international animal charity has gathered pace, and despite claims of a more cordial position after the WSPA's recent visit, hostilities appear to have increased. The WSPA makes the case that to keep so many thousands of turtles, which are not domesticated animals, in the poor conditions at the farm to supply such a low demand for meet is fundamentally wrong.

The CTF continues to refute much of the findings of the well-documented WSPA research, however, despite photographic evidence of the overcrowded conditions, cannibalism, disease and congenital disorders. Even in the face of its own independent review, which confirmed much, though not all, of the findings of the original report from the charity, the farm still says the issues it faces are minor and can easily be addressed.

Adam said that this intensive three-day review of the farm undertaken in December by four internationally recognised sea turtle experts and conservationists had found clear value in the Cayman Turtle Farm’s research and conservation programmes.  

“While the report identified some areas for improvement, which the Cayman Turtle Farm is acting upon, the assessment team’s findings also disproved several of the WSPA’s allegations against the Farm,” Adam said. “The WSPA is using Ms Streeter to represent a view that is obviously biased toward WSPA’s objectives,” Adam said.

The WSPA is continuing with its global campaign and says it is not giving up, despite the war of words, on the hope that one day the CTF will stop breeding turtles in the questionable conditions that currently exist purely for meat and switch to conservation, using better animal welfare measures to protect the animals in its care.

Category: Science and Nature

Comments (112)

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  1. Anonymous says:

    Being a Caymanian myself, I am utterly disgusted by the local opinion that eating turtle is fine because we 'breed' them. I have done some research myself and if the green sea turtle only lays where she was hatched, where on earth do these turtles go to nest? NOWHERE, they simply drop their eggs into the water. Stop being stubborn people! The turtle farm is a disgusting establishment and needs to be shut down and the consumption of the turtles meat needs to be made illegal! Don't even get me started on the conditions of the pools at the turtle farm….

    • anon. says:

      Do you eat cow,chicken,little fluffy lambs,pig, or iguana, or use any animal by products? just saying…England is apparently dining on horse meat, and didn't even know. Lipstick has animal products. Unless you are a true vegan, what's your 'beef'?

      • JJTA says:

        You, whoever you are, are completely and pathetically lacking common sense, objectivity, intellect, foresight, fortitude and above all you lack integrity. You attempt to approach a situation by pointing to other's wrongs/inadequecies/institutionalized faults in order to ignominiously ignore the facts in your own house and to your/our detriment. This is not the way forward, your stupid, worthless and asinine verbal diarhhea is counterproductive and strengthens those who would wish to obliterate the very concept of a sustainable, humane and productive solution for all involved including the turtle itself. You ignorant donkeys and parasitic postulators of putrid malevolence continue to balk at simple truths with some plastic and disingenuous attempt at subverting the inherent gravity of the universally and painfully obvious with no hope of true success and as always it shall be the potential and the future and those within said future who shall pay the price. Suck salt ya daggum twerp. Deal with the facts dummy. You sound like McKeeva, the one who spearheaded the sucking of the very lifeblood out of the entire scenario and whose only success has been to devalue the meaning of the word boatswain forever to those unaware of the true meaning and the intrinsic value and heritage therein, to say nothing of the national purse and it's thus far pilfered contents.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Like i said esrlier it dosent really matter where they are nesting.. The fact is that we are keeping those species alive.. And u should check your facts as turtles are poached on the whole coast of south america where most of the turtles head after being released.

  3. Anonymous says:

    the caymanian attitude towards animals or the environment speaks for itself….trying to argue ehtics or conservation with a caymanian is like banging your head against a brick wall……goodnight….zzzzzz

    • Anonymous says:

      And London and New York are sooo famous for their environmental conservation efforts with all that concrete…

  4. Anonymous says:

    Eating horse is far worse in my opinion. So everyone whose lived in the EU, you’ve eatin horse so save it !

    • Anonymous says:

      When did horse go on the endangered species list?

      • Anonymous says:

        Anon 1613 so for many many years the European powers and the USA  killed the turtles out and now they are down here teaching caribbean people what not to do because they have learnt the errors of their mistakes over the years.

        Guys the Turtle Farm as bad as it is operating is in the best interests of the Turtle. Use the report to improve it not kill it. The Farm will have to decide if due to international pressure they should stop killing any of the Turtles for sale of meat. Then they can release the extra where others will sit by and wait to kill them.

        Or maybe the WSPA and all the supporters of closing the farm can tell us what this is really about because it has become very obvious it is not about saving the turtles.

        • Anonymous says:

          Don't blame the US for your problems. We have turtles and are protecting them. 

  5. Anonymous says:

    All animals are in danger of being killed, either for sport (e.g. fox or bear hunting), or for food (e.g. tuna, halibut, swordfish, trout, bass, turkey, chicken, cows, buffalo, Ostrich, horses for dogfood).

     

    Animals are also USED everyday for the enjoyment of humans (e.g. horse racing, dog racing, bull fighting, tarpon fishing, shark fishing, dolphin parks).

     

    Before slamming the CTF here in Cayman, why doesn't Streeter and WSPA extend their efforts to battle for the rights of all of those other animals being used or mistreated and killed everyday for ultimate human purposes?

  6. Anonymous says:

    Close the tourism component. That is no doubt the part that is costing the lions share of the $10,000,000 annual subsidy. Get rid of the CEO, the CFO, the COO, the HR Manager, the Information Officer, the Marketing Manager, the Food and Beverage Manager, and the rest…

    Hire a Marine Biologist, a butcher, some labourers, and security.

    Pick a number that you are comfortable with as a subsidy. Call it $100,000 a month.

    Write a budget.

    Maintain a clean facility.

    Maintain a good breeding stock.

    Sell the meat of 100 turtles a month.

    Tag and release the rest.

  7. Anonymous says:

    the turlte farm is a loss making entity that inhumanely treats and slaughters an endangered species……. the place is truly disturbing….. close it down

    • Anonymous says:

      Interesting! How can you humanely slaughter animals? I wonder how chickens and cows are slaughtered in a "humane" way and what the lobster thinks when you stick him in a boiling pot of water…….

      • Anonymous says:

        In first world countries they ARE slaughtered humanely you moron, including lobsters. Your lack of any facts shows you have no argument.

  8. Anonymous says:

    It can make a profit . The CTF can make a profit its only because whenever we sign treaties we never compromise and get something back. We should sell shell jewelry and leather products and don't forget the oil. We can make moisturising creams ,soaps, perfumes, sun tan oils, skin medicines ,cosmetic oils. The CTF has a wonderful future if environmentalists would just leave Cayman ,"The islands that time forgot". 

    Can you imagine they have been trying to close this facility for over 35 years. The farm has changed standards and procedures, stopped selling worldwide a product that was so much in demand. You fools, who must be young, don't know the history of your ancestors. You also don't know anything about the history of the turtle farm ……….ASK.

  9. Kadafe says:

    in my opinion the CTF must be kept open. i am all for finding someone to help fund it e.g veteniary university. the CTF is helpingto relieve poaching on wild stocks because these turtle are not looked on with the reverence in south america as they are here. when seen there they are caught and killed. So if not fo the CTF realesing these turtles over the years im sure that they would be extinct or at least critical in the wild. this island nation is keeping the species alive e.g the Ridleys Kemp turtle (the rarest of all sea turtles) and snappin turtles.. how can anyone want to close a facility that is keeping alive some species of animals?

    • Anonymous says:

      You talk like Cayman is the center of the turtle world. It is just one island and if it disappeared only a couple of turtles would notice. People everywhere are protecting them. Only Cayman is eating them.

      • Anonymous says:

        Cayman is the centre of the green sea turtle world. It has the only sea turtle farm in the world.   

        • Anonymous says:

          But not many nesting on your beaches compared with the rest of the world.

        • Anonymous says:

          But hardly any nesting on the beaches. You need to get out more. People are working to aid sea turtles all over the world. Mainly you just eat them.

  10. Anonymous says:

    Go to China and stop them from killing and eatings, monkeys, snakes, what about those who eat, donkey, horse, try turning the whole world into vegetarians while you’re at it! Smh. The whole world is just bored and needs to find somethinng to constantly complain about so whhat the hell else is new? Anybody ga any turtle dinna that I can get a lil bit? Chhhh its beeen a while and all this turtle talk got me drooling, add a lil breadfruit and potatoe salad with a nice corn bread hhhmmmmmm – to heck wid unni I gine find some.

  11. Anonymous says:

    ….and next Turkeys for Thanksgiving! How many of those get slaughtered and how many non-Americans in Cayman celebrate this and its not even our heritage. 

  12. Anonymous says:

    It is nice to know that money that could be spent supporting the education system is being used to subsidise the price of turtle meat.

  13. Anonymous says:

    Worth ewery penny…mmmmmmmmm

  14. durrrr says:

    It’s about time that the turtle farm came out fighting against these tree-hugging asshats. Bottom line is we are not going to stop eating turtle meat; close the farm and we’ll eat wild turtles instead. Is that what WSPA and Streeter really want?

  15. Anonymous says:

    Anyone who eats turtle is a Neanderthal as far as I am concerned.

  16. Anonymous says:

    since they are on the subject about Turtles does that mean we can't slaughter our cows i do so love beef.  cow ranchers get ready one, two, three, POW! at least they have the ammunation.

  17. native says:

    Over 500 people participated in the CNS online poll. Over 100 believe that the farm should be sold to a private entity. About 30 cold-hearted persons believe it should be made into a slaughterhouse. 76 gold-diggers say keep it as it is – a farm / tourist attraction. Only 77 agree with Ms. Tanya Streeter that it should be close down altogether and the turtles released. I am sorry, but I am sided with the over 230 pollsters out of the 500 to turn back the farm into a CONSERVATION facility to repopulate and protect the endangered animals. I think most Caymanians and expats believe in CONSERVATION. I can't see how Tanya would be against it. She has been off this rock for quite awhile; she must be ill-informed as to the primary reason of the facility and its creation. 

    • Environ-mentallist says:

      XXXX

      All I know is, if you close the farm and it will be taken it from the wild. At the end of the day Caymanians will continue to eat turtle… And I'm not being a "troll" I'm just being honest.

    • Anonymous says:

      Turning the farm into a conservation facility is a great idea. Except that it will lead to poaching.

      But it means that they will lose the revenue from selling the meat. This will just increase the losses even more!

      And the complaints of the WSPA will still be there, over-crowding etc. unless a lot of these turtles are killed or released.

      But the WSPA don't want them released as they claim they are diseased. So I guess they will have to kill them.

      Personally I've triied turlte meat but it is a little too chewy for me. Plus it isvery pricy!

       

  18. Anonymous says:

    errrrrrr – so 900 turtles cost $10 million to produce? Ok – include the 60 or so that were released, that's still over $10,000 a turtle! And how many died from overcrowding?

    • Anonymous says:

      It's not the turtles that are costing $10m. We used to have 100,000 turtles 20 years ago and the farm made a small profit back then. Blame the White Elephant called Boatswain's Beach. That's when the financial problems with the farm began. 

    • Anonymous says:

      No dumbass! The lost of money is due to Boatswains Beach, not the farm!!!

      So how many turtles were lost to trawling nets around the world, today alone?!!!!

      Oh but we not worried about that right, just what these little island people doing.

      • Anonymous says:

        It is much easier to do something about the little island people.  At least it would be a start.

      • Anonymous says:

        And how many died from overcrowding – more than the number slaughtered AND the number released put together. Not only expensive, but incompetant as well. 

        And keep the name-calling for the playground, child

  19. Anonymous says:

    I Guess we have to stop eating chicken,beef, pork etc to please WSPA.  The people who are in WSPA are mostly vegetarians, i am not a vegetarian growing up in Cayman Turtle meat was always a favortie of mine.   If the turtle farm supply the meat i will buy it,  it is better that poaching them in the wild and the meat is a favorite amonst the Caymanians.  why don't the WSPA go to one of those cannibal tribes and tell them what they cannot eat so they can roast them. 

    • Anonymous says:

      But if you eat chicken or beef at least the Cayman Government is not providing $800,000 a month(!) of our tax payers' money to fund it.

    • Anonymous says:

      Your blind claim that turtle meat is a favourite amongst Caymanians is just not true.

      I know maths isn't a strong point of this island but 900 divided by 30,000 ish is only 0.03 of a turtle per head of the population. Considering, like most food animals, a large percentage of the animal is waste or inedible and that it is relatively small in the first place, that would make an insignificant number of Caymanians actual turtle eaters. 

      The real truth is that some Caymanians readily poach turtle despite the CTF, the blood stained beaches along the northern and eastern shores of Grand Cayman will testify.

      Perhaps if you told people how poachers catch turtles, they wouldn't be so cavalier in their support for the scum who commit this vile crime against the laws of Cayman and a defenceless animal.

      Why don't you tell them that they drag pregnant females off their nests, hog tie their fippers, then slit their throats so that they can take them away in pick ups for further butchery. Why don't you tell them of those who look for free swimming turtles within our reefs using small boats to harass them until they are exhausted. Why don't you tell them that when the poor animal is so exhausted it cannot swim away, they enter the water and pin the drowning animal down until it is dead?

      No, didn't think so.

      Fine, keep your damn turtle farm, but pay the market price for the meat without subsidy. And whilst you're at it, take the representation of the turtle off your national coat of arms, Cayman Airways and every other symbol of the Cayman Islands. You are not worthy to further exploit the animal you care so little for.

      • Anonymous says:

        For your infoirmation there are not 30,000 Caymanians on this island. There are 30,000 Jamaicans, 20,000 other nationalities and only aboiut 10,000 of us. A piece of paper does not a Caymanian make. Yes we do love Turtle meat so get over it.

        • Anonymous says:

          Like it or not stupid, none of you are unique, you're all a mix of differing nationalities. Take a look at your skin colour for a start. Last time I looked at the history books, the UK didn't send dark skin colonists in the 1700's and they certainly wouldn't have been called Bodden, Kirkconnell, Ryan or any of the other original British names that were the first true Caymanians.

          So despite your warped sense of persecution, the first Caymanians were white, British nationals who colonised, developed trade and kept a few slaves to work on the non viable plantations that existed at the time. Cayman was a UK/Jamaican back water for many years, those Jamaicans you so despise are probably more entitled to be here than you, in fact you stand a great chance of being related to them.

          I actually feel sorry for them having to have racist bigots like you as long lost countryman.

          • Anonymous says:

            1. The UK didn't send anyone to colonise Cayman but if they had there is no reason that there names could not have been Bodden etc. which are all British names.

            2. Kirkconnells and Ryans were not among the first Caymanians.

            3. "Jamaicans you so despise are probably more entitled to be here than you". Really? If that is the case do they accept that the Spanish and the English are more entitled to be in Jamaica than actual Jamaicans?  

             

            • Anonymous says:

              The first people to settle here were in fact the Bodden's and Arch's … from Sheffield, England. And yes we were shipwrecked here. . There is no 'Caymanian' but if there was, we would be top of that list as we were the first people to settle here.

              • Anonymous says:

                That would be Boddens and Watlers. Arches came in the 1800s. Many Caymanian families arrived before the Archesincluding Tatums, Connors, Thompsons and Rivers. Proof? These families feature in the 1802 census, but the Arches do not.

              • Anonymous says:

                Actually, that's a myth. The first known settlers were Walters (or Watlers) from Wales and Bawdens (or Boddens) from England and they came here in 1658 after serving in Oliver Cromwells New Model Army in Jamaica. Issac Bodden, (the grandson of the first settler) is the first known Cayman born individual and he was born somewhere around 1700.

                Think about it, how did a ship wrecked crew possibly colonise Cayman on their own, how did they procreate, who knew they were here and how did they survive such an inhospitable place?

                No, it all sounds very romantic, but totally unrealistic as an early settlement in the 1600's would have needed logistical help to survive and grow.

            • Anonymous says:

              Oh good god, are you that dumb to not understand what was written.

               

              1. The point that was being made was that the original settlers were Boddens from England, a predominantly white populated country at the time. Like it or not and whether the UK actually sent the first settlers to Cayman, they are colonists,( look it up in the dictionary). Britain ran the worlds largest empire at the time and where ever a British man placed his feet, he did so in the name of the King, (hence the union flag that remains over Cayman today). And think about it, once the Boddens had arrived, how did they manage to populate the islands and develop trade? Yes, procreation and immigration, which means more people must have arrived pretty soon after or the original settlers would simply have died out. 

               

              2. Tell that to the Brac.

               

              3. Obviously new immigrants don't have the same entitlement as the many who are decended from the original black and white Jamaican's who came here when this was governed by Jamaica. Look around you idiot, how many dark, Afro-Caribbean skins do you see? To use such a simplistic retort just demonstrates your complete lack of common sense. Jamaica is an independent country and has chosen the path of self determination, it is no longer a Spanish or British territory, so why would there be a sense of entitlement.

              The point being that Cayman is not and has never been an independent country and it was an integral part of Jamaica's governorship for many years. So obviously the decendants of those early people who came to live and work here from Jamaica are more 'Caymanian' than other Caribbean nationals who followed later.

               

              Come on, keep up, it's not that difficult. 

              • Anonymous says:

                Your post was poorly written and didn't make sense: "the UK didn't send dark skin colonists in the 1700's and they certainly wouldn't have been called Bodden, Kirkconnell, Ryan or any of the other original British names that were the first true Caymanians".

                As for lack of common sense obviously Cayman is independent of Jamaica so why on earth  would Jamaicans have any rights here in that case? Hence my point re the Spanish and English.

                There was never any comparison in your original post between Caymanian descendants of Jamaicans and persons from other Caribbean nations.

                I'll have no problem keeping up if you learn to express clearly and intelligently. You clearly have an inflated opinion of yourself.   

                • Anonymous says:

                  Go back to 11:03 and '30,000 Jamaicans'. Does that a make a distinction or is it a racist generalisation? I think you'll find it to be the latter. So in making such a remark the poster is including all Jamaican ancestry in their diatribe, a fact that was obviously picked up by the poster you now decry.

                  As for the Spanish/English question, well that was your point, not mine. I came to the obvious conclusion, couldn't you see that?  

                  Come on, if you wish to criticise at least study the complete argument and not just the section that suits your narrow minded view.

                • Anonymous says:

                  Really, you can't be that dumb to not understand the posters point. It is clear concise and accurate when you take the whole argument into consideration. I suggest that its you who needs to learn clarity, because your obvious lack of intelligence is confusing the hell out of you, and us!!

              • Anonymous says:

                Wrong on 3. Cayman was never governed by Jamaica. It was governed by England through Jamaica. Big difference.

                • Anonymous says:

                  Governorship not Governed, its not that hard.

                • Anonymous says:

                  Cayman was a dependency of Jamaica, therefore it was under the governorship of the Governor of Jamaica, who in turn answered to England who governed them both.

                  Really, you needed to be told that?

              • Anonymous says:

                Whether they live in the Brac or elsewhere anyone informed on Cayman history will know that Kirkconnells and Ryans were not among the first Caymanians. William Kirkconnell, the original Cayman Kirkconnell, arrived around 1840. The original Cayman Ryan came around the same time.  They would have found Fosters, Scottses, Hunters, Mortons etc. already in the Brac.  

                Why is it that the most ill-informed people are typically the most conceited? 

                • Anonymous says:

                  In 1840 there were barely 1500 to 2000 people on the entire Cayman Islands. It is likely that prior to the emancipation of the slaves 50% of these people were of Afro Caribbean decent, almost certainly from Jamaica. If you don't think that a family name that arrived until this time can be called an original Caymanian then you are as concieted as you are niave.

      • Anonymous says:

        FYI there are only just like you love your about 10,000 of us and yes we love Turtle meat just like you love your Shepherd's Pie or Curry Goat. There are 30,000 Janaicans and 20,000 other nationalities combined, on this island and a piece of paper does not a Caymanian make.Why do you people come here because we're unique and then try to change everything sewhdno that we are  like the rest of the world. Like the song says "If you don't love us leave us" and when you're running down my country you're walking on the fighting side of me" 

        • Anonymous says:

          ok, 10,000 native born Caymanians = .09 – Not a big difference and not ALL Caymanians eat turtle. In fact, I'd bet the younger generations don't care about it at all. There are better things to eat her now. 

        • Anonymous says:

          Why did your original (not Caymanian) relatives come here?  Was it because they were so "unique" that they were not welcome at home?  I bet the first Caymanian told the second they same thing your telling us.  Besides, who cares what you think? I doubt if you can add or subtract.

        • Another Anon says:

          On another note – this is just a perfect example of the dismal standard of education on this Island. Perhaps you should lay off the turtle meat. It is making you sound stupid.

        • Anonymous says:

          Oh gosh, sweetie, I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but I suspect most people came here for the sunshine, not to see Caymanians.  Why do so many Caymanians have such a pie-in-the-sky idea of what immigration means?  People don't come here as they might go to a museum, to see the cute natives as though they're behind glass.  They might come for all sorts of reasons, including (but not limited to) a better way of life; temperate weather; a bit of adventure and so on.  Some probably came because their bosses made them.  Some came because they had no other way to survive.    I can assure you, though, that they didn't come because they thought Cayman was some kind of weird vacuum in which time would remain fixed, nothing and no one would be allowed to change, and outside influence of any kind would be unwelcome.  If this is what you expected when you invited expatriates here, you were being naive and short-sighted.   It is simply not possible to contain the human spirit in that way.

           

          Immigration brings with it many challenges, but also many riches, if you look at the thing right and manage it well.  You have to welcome diversity — even diversity of opinion.  If you are unable to do this, don't invite immigrants to share your country.  The tired refrain "If you don't love us, leave us," is quite meaningless in modern Cayman.  I'm not sure it is even possible any longer to define "us" — as is evidenced here, not all Caymanians think the same way, even about traditional culture.  And that is exactly as it should be.  Culture is not a fixed, dead thing, like a gutted turtle.  It is vibrant and changing and alive.  Otherwise, it is nothing, and rightly belongs in the history books.  

           

          And realistically, a heritage of seafaring and fishing is hardly unique in the world.  Ask anyone from Ireland or any of the coastal communities in North America how different the Pedro Castle displays are from the ones in their own home towns — the answer will be, "Not very."  Not in any significant way.  Lots of people here share your heritage.

           

          What we need is a culture that recognizes similarities and embraces difference — so that all our residents can take part in it.   What we have instead is a kind of stuck thing, unwilling to grow or change, fixed in old ways and stubbornly refusing to admit newcomers.  That is the way backwards, towards oblivion. I don't expect many expatriates want Cayman to be "just like the rest of the world."  That is a simplistic way to look at things.  What they do want is to be a part of things, and to have the culture that exists now (not a hundred years ago) embrace them and celebrate the positive contributions they can make.  I don't understand why, for example, seafaring is honoured just because it happened in the past, but no one cares about Filipino culture, which is here right now.  Why not celebrate the best of what we have in the present?  Why are we so afraid to let our culture live?

          • Rorschach says:

            begin slow clap….

          • Anonymous says:

            I don't think you understand at all what you are saying darling. I believe if you went to Jamaica or Cuba or the philippines you would see you are wrong.

            For instance tell a filipino to stop eating stinky fish. They LOVE it. Smells like there is a dead person in the room and trust me it will wake you up if you are in a deep sleep. Now that wouldn't upset anyone unless you live to close to where they are eating that. What about dog or monkey? Now thats something to get upset about about. What can you say to those people about that? Change your culture? Why don't WSPA try changing that. OOPS I forgot they kill people there.They use guns and machetes. 

            Well lets try Cuba. People are poor they make an average of US $ 8 per month . They can't get beef go check . They have farms all over the country. When they want a little beef ,they go kill a horse . Go tell those people about culture . Their culture is about survival. Castro will send you to jail for life hard labour and it still doesn't stop them. Ask WSPA what can they do about that. Can you and all of your darlings change that culture? 

            Lets go to Jamaicathey love curry goat try it . whenever I'm drunk the smell of goat doesn't bother me at all. How about mannish water? Take the intestines that is full of crap wash it out in the sea. Then boil add some flavoring to taste voila. You will make whoopee all night long. How about agouti? Have you ever smell that animal? Its eaten all over the caribbean and central and south america. STINK so stink it makes you want to throw up. Anybody use to it says best thing GOD ever created. How you going to change that culture "darlin"?

            So if you want to live in harmony STFU and enjoy your stay and if you or anyone else don't like turtle stew keep it to yourself. 

            So you see we do have a lot in common. Whatever reason you came to this island ,it wasn't for us, No one here stopped you at the airport no one here is bothering you. Noone is trying to change you to eat turtle stew. No one cares how YOU live . But please remember when you were brought here to work here .We didn't invite you to change our way of life . You obviously have forgotten to respect our way of life irregardless of right or wrong old or new. It makes no difference. Thank God we are not like other people in the world. 

          • Anonymous says:

            i.e. you have no respect for Caymanian culture and traditions and would like to see them replaced and forgotten. Seafaring was the lifeblood of Cayman and helped make it what is today. We are proud of that heritage and it should never be forgotten.  

            Newcomers need to learn to integrate. Filipinos care about Filipino culture, Brits care about their culture, Jamaicans care about their culture. None of them would allow it to be trampled on just because someone new arrived from somewhere and had different ideas.      

            • Anonymous says:

              Wrong.  I do care about Cayman's culture, which is why I would like to see it live in the present reality — not stay stuck in a past that no longer exists and find itself irrelevant.  That's what happens to culture when it refuses to embrace change.  People here like use the old adage, "When in Rome," but they rarely stop to consider what happened to the Romans.

              I am from eastern Canada by birth, so seafaring is part of my culture too, and it made my community what it was also.  I am not denigrating anything about it.  I am simply saying that it is not unique to the Cayman Islands, that other people share a similar heritage and similar values, that we are all people and that perhaps we have something to gain by celebrating the better parts of the cultures now living amongst us.  

               

              The other responder to my post can keep his or her stinky fish and crime.  I'll stick to empanada and reggae, thanks.  (Though I do think it's rather Freudian that he or she immediately thought to link such things with eating turtle.)

               

            • Anonymous says:

              Seafaring is the heritage of any country that has a coastline, nothing unique there.

              The Cayman Islands of today certainly weren't built on seafaring, it was originally built on coastal turtle catching and supplying passing ships with meat and provisions. A few trading vessels and a cat boat fleet doesn't really count.

               

              It eventually became dependent on financial services and that's what made it what it is today.

               

              This island hasn't produced any notable seafarers or explorers, it's never had a deep water ship building tradition, fishing fleet or merchant navy. It has had a few individuals who have either gone to sea to escape poverty, (or the law) or to seek adventure working for other nations merchant fleets. Very few became qualified captains of large trading vessels and I doubt if any at all served in the Royal Navy.

               

               

            • Anonymous says:

              To the posters below, there is no point in saying that Cayman's seafaring tradition is not unique. Regardless it is our heritage and out to be respected, and we have depended upon it miuch more than say neighbouring Jamaica. Long before there were banks and hedge funds it was the remittances of Caymanian seamen that kept these Islands. Blurting out your ignorance on here does not help anyone. Your dismissive attitudes are exactly why many Caymanians are wary of extending the franchise. You simply have no respect for traditional Caymanian culture which you clearly regard as inferior and prefer to pretend that it is non-existent.    

              • Anonymous says:

                I'm not sure why you consider it "dismissive" to point out a shared aspect of heritage.  This doesn't really make a great deal of sense.   I think, on the contrary, it is you who are dismissive by refusing to acknowledge the associations you share with expatriates.  

        • Anonymous says:

          OOOOHHHH, scary. You've got to get out of bed first, then we'll be impressed.

          So that'll be the country that you don't want to pay for but are quite happy for the rest of us to do so.

          You're not unique, there are plenty of small minded, lazy, uneducated, racist bigots around the world. It just depends on whether you want to remain so.

      • Anonymous says:

        Born Caymanian here, I don’t like turtle. Too oily for me.

      • Anonymous says:

        spoken like a true vegetarian.  do me a favor and tell the farmers to stop picking the fruits on the trees they say that it hurts.  and this is just for you i have a PhD degree in management and i was born on this island so the next time you want to run your mouth and say that you know that math is not one of our strongest point, take a walk in your country because i definitely know that you got some people who can't add nor read.  my opinon is that i like turtle meat, i agree that the conditions needs improvement.  and in order to get the meat how do you suggest that we do it sing to them. growing up my mother had to use a knife to cut up her beef or chicken.  don't you use a knife to cut your apple?

        • Anonymous says:

          I guess Grammar and punctuation just doesn't feature in the PHD Syllabus nowadays?

          • Anonymous says:

            I would hope not. Those topics should have been covered in primary and high school. Let's not forget that these are just posts on a news website rather than dissertations, but since you are at it, there is no need to capitalise "grammar" or "syllabus", and the correct abbreviation is Ph.D. (not PHD).   

        • Anonymous says:

          Dude, seriously, A PhD in management? Impressive, however, they give those away in the UK to those who don't know any better.

          It's just a shame you didn't take one in English instead, how on earth did you get through school, let alone college or university with such appalling composition, grammer and English spelling, (not American)?

          And this one's for you. I'm a former senior manager with a world famous corporation, I didn't need a PhD I just got of my arse and with talent and a little luck made a solid 30 year career formyself. I travelled to over 100 countries, had a budget that makes the Cayman Islands GDP look like chump change and had 300 individuals under my direct supervision.

          I can assure you of this, if anyone of my staff, (manager or not) had submitted a piece of work like yours, (above) I would fire his arse and want to know who employed such an illiterate and unintelligible fool. 

          Oh yes and I'm definitely a meat eater, but I don't indulge in a heritage fantacy that obviously doesn't exist and I certainly don't eat endangered species. What is it, oh yes, fewer than 9% actually say they eat turtle meat on a regular basis, against 61% who don't touch it at all.

          Use your paper PhD and work out the maths, (not math). That's a pretty large majority against and it will increase as theyounger generation realise the futility of the argument and that more sustainable and tasty foods are available. 

          If you're the best that Cayman can offer, God help us all.

  20. Anonymous says:

    Its a meat farm.  Unless your a vegetarian let it go.  Animals get eaten by people, it's been happening for a really long time. 

    Some like turtles, others like chicken or beef. 

    • Anonymous says:

      Its a meat farm at $10,000 public funded price per turtle.  Thats the real problem.    Your happy with affordable turtle meat.  Everyone else is not happy with paying the other $9,900per turtle so you can be happy.  And of course it makes the intitled ones who have been getting paid to "run" the ridiculous excuse for a business happy.  Where else can they get paidfor losing that much money every day??  Its past time that all people pay the price only for what they get and not only for what you get.  Get it?  Probably not.

    • Anonymous says:

      a farm that costs us all millions of dollars a year that could be better used elsewhere

      • Anonymous says:

        Put the turtles farm  back in the sound. …that is wherethey were in the first place.

        No cost of pumps, they have fresh water at all times. We would only have to hire 6 people to feed them. The cost of a scientist would be minimal, due to the turtles living in their own invironment.

    • Anonymous says:

      Why don't you go the whole way. What about dog, cat, rat or even horse?

      No, I'll tell you why, because the civilised western world does not farm reptiles or family pets for food. Why do you think the UK and most of Europe are reviled by the current meat scandal, its because its wrong and against accepted humane farming practices.

      If you really want to eat reptiles, try the green iguana, they're not endangered.   

      • Waskly wabbit says:

        The French eat horse….

      • Anonymous says:

         "…civilised western world does not farm reptiles or family pets for food".  Wrong. Many people in the western world keep rabbits as family pets and many people in western world eat them as food. Many people also eat reptiles. Ever heard of alligator burgers?  

    • Anonymous says:

      So did enslaving Africans, but we got over that part of our heritage and abolished it. US settlers shot the natives and bison to the point of extinction, but it was wrong and they abolished it. We all used ivory until we realised it was a disgusting abuse of nature, so we abolished it.

      Grow up, move on and keep the past in the past.

  21. Anonymous says:

    CNS – Your reporting on this is quite biassed. You have painted the independent review with a broad brush saying that it supported most of the findings of the WSPA whereas it did not support many of the key claims of the WSPA. I don't think the Farm has disputed the independent review's findings.    

    XXXX

    Adams is right about one thing – if the WSPA were to succeed in closing in the Farm it will have done more to promote the extinction of turtles in the wild than anyone in living memory.