Mac moves marina motion

| 11/04/2014

(CNS): The leader of the opposition presented a private member's motion to the Legislative Assembly Wednesday calling for government to give unqualified support for the proposed marina on Cayman Brac at Saltwater Pond, adjacent to the Alexander Hotel. Several members of the Dilbert family, who own the hotel and have applied for a coastal works licence in connection with the marina, were present at the civic centre on Cayman Brac, where the LA is sitting this week, as McKeeva Bush called the project a “beacon of light” for the island. The government voted for the motion, but only after it had been amended to say that its support for the marina was contingent on the results of an environmental impact study – a position it already held, regardless of the motion.

During the debate it was revealed by Deputy Premier Moses Kirkconnell that the Dilberts have told Cabinet that if they are allowed to develop the marina, they have plans to expand the Alexander Hotel, even though they have previously stated that the hotel is on average only 25% full.

The motion also called for the Brac to have its own “environment oversight committee”, made up of Brackers, which would not, apparently, include the Department of Environment. The DoE, Bush told the House, had been running an “orchestrated effort on CNS to badmouth the developer and all kinds of evil” and making everyone “believe that they are the worst type of people in the world”.

Brackers were suffering, he said, with as many as 300 people on welfare and the island dependent on $13 to $16 million (per year) in government subsidies. Soon, he said, the islanders would have to deal with the same criminal activity as Grand Cayman if they let the people there “ground you into the ground because of their environmental likes and dislikes”.

The opposition leader said the proposal had been “attacked” by the DoE, and accused the department of deliberately giving wrong information to stop the project from moving forward. He claimed the marina, which would take one to one and a half years to build, would stimulate the Brac economy in all sorts of ways.

Bush noted that government had received a letter “signed by 21 solid Cayman Brackers – educated Brackers and with good common sense”, who had made “a unanimous decision” to ask government to relax environmental considerations and approve the project in the next two weeks.

“The Brac people is going to have the say,” he said, calling for a timeframe so that “no one from the DoE can draw it out”, and said that similar projects on the Brac should have similar treatment.

Nevertheless, the government stood firm that the project required an environmental impact study, and Premier Alden McLaughlin pointed out that Cabinet already approved the project in principle several weeks ago, contingent on the result of the EIA.

The deputy premier, who is the first elected member for the Sister Islands, shared a conversation he had had with Cleveland Dilbert, the patriarch of the family. “One of the things I said was that we had to do an EIA because my legacy was not going to be that I destroyed the West End of Cayman Brac,” said Kirkconnell. Cleveland, he recalled, had said that he did not want it to be his legacy either, “so I am very confident that he meant that he wanted to ensure that it is done in the right way,” he said.

He said they were all saying the same thing – making sure that the project was done right – and he maintained that he wanted this project to go forward.

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  1. Anonymous says:

    In fairness to Mr. Dilbert, there have been a lot of opinions posted here based on misinformation and half-truths.(And a whole other proposal for marina project in a very sensitive area by the Russian Destroyer not even getting any attention!)  I have known Mr. Dilbert since his early days in Grand Cayman. He has told me personally and the summary that was published here on CNS had three possible scenarios for his marina project.After talks with government, Mr. Dilbert is going with the third option and is planning to pay for the project out of his own pocket, all and including the redirection of the roads. But this is nothing new as this was posted here but apparently not read by many, judging by all the incorrect postings that object to government paying for some/all of the project.
     

    People need to bear mind that a foreign developer made applications for not one but two other marinas! One of those two locations involves a site that has a vibrant and thriving coral and marine life population and is adjacent to Cayman Brac's most popular dive sites, including the Russian destroyer site. We need to make sure that this proposal gets very tough scrutiny because of the sensitivity of the area. I am an avid diver and have spent a great deal of time diving in the Sister Islands. So I speak as a diver and one who has dove and snorkeled the North shore marina area countless times over many, many years, from back in the Buccaneer Inn days. I received my Advanced Open Water certification from Winston McDermot at Brac Aquatics and did my open water dives with him in that very same area. For some strange reason people here do not seem to be aware of the other two marina proposals and are especially unaware of the environmental impact of the Russian Destroyer area project.
     

    A big concern is that the north side marina has the potential to subject the entrance to the airport and the terminal area to storm flooding because the developer plans to breach the protective ironshore, cut a channel and dig out the marina basin well inland, ending just a few hundred feet from the airport entrance and pretty close to the airport terminal and ther island's only bank. I don't think this is such a good idea at all. But the serious implications of the north shore project are being all but lost in the hoopla over Dilbert's project. From what I know of the Dilbert marina area and the foreign developer's proposal, the north shore site had probably 20 times or more divers per year than the diving activity offshore of the Dilbert site. And I know that there is nowhere near the shallow water diving or snorkeling offshore of the Dilbert site but excellent and thriving diving offshore of the north side marina site. And both projects need to be assessed for potential flooding of the airport and terminal area.
     

    For the sake of the environment and the protection of the north shore West End dive site, the people must demand that our government sees to it that all three projects are subject to the same scrutiny and the same measure of environmental study. Probably more so for the north shore site because of the aeras importance to tourism and the environment.
     

    In regard to the marina proposal near the Russian Destroyer site, I am an avid boater familiar with marinas all over the Caribbean and North America, I fail to see how a marina with its associated pollution and water quality issues can possibly be a good idea so close the number one dive site on the island. Even Gina Ebanks-Petrie expressed her concerns about this in her letter to Brac planning. Brackers beware!  Where there is smoke there is fire! Much of the year the best dive sites in the area are offshore and nearby the north shore marina site. The by far most popular shore dive site, the Buccaneer Inn barcadare, is down wind and down current from the north side marina site. But, even though she warned of her concerns about water quality problems, Gina Ebanks-Petrie seems to think the north shore marina is a good idea. Her letter to Planning indicates her apparently hearty support for the project. ???  
     

    As a diver with decades of experience and one who loves Cayman Brac, and one who has a lot of experience with marinas as a blue water boater/sailor, I think a marina on the North Side in proximity to very active and quite popular shore and boat dive sitesis a very, very horrible idea. Worse even than Dilbert's proposed marina. The marina adjacent to the Russian Destroyer site will seriously degrade the area for diving, snorkeling and other in-water activities. Moreover, diving in the area will be made far more dangerous, if not off limits, due to increased boat traffic approaching the channel into the marina.  Why ruin one of the Brac's top attractions?
     

    People take note of the facts! There are THREE marina projects, not just one. As I see it, the north side marina proposal will have very grave implications for what is one of the nicest diving and snorkeling areas on the island. Why this project is not a matter of serious interest to the public is beyond me. I hope Brackers and other Caymanians wake up before it is too late and more of their heritage is ruined as developers make money at their and their children's expense!

    I think that both marina projects need to be scrapped!

    CNS: FYI Three marina plans for Brac (Feb 24th). As far as I know, the DoE Technical Review Committee has not yet completed reports on the other two applications. We will be publishing articles on those when they are available.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Mac's motions are of no interest to me or should they be to anyone else apart from his doctor.

  3. 4cayman says:

    19.25 if you cut open the land and create a basin, common sense would state the water would flow straight to flooding low lying properties. Secondly it's destroying the envoirionment  by destroying a natural habitat which was up to a couple months ago a bird sanctuary. If you think 1932 hurricane was bad watch and see when the next one come and it probably won't have to be a Cat 5 to wreckhavoc and loss of lives and land.

    Also just commenting on Shetty's hospital, are they creating a corridor for the sea to go directly to the hospital? Makes no sense to destroy the ridge when they could have construct the road in away to buffer the sea water from coming over.

     

    • Anonymous says:

      You have made a VERY very good point!!  But we have other reasons for extreme concern! Does no one here realise (or even care) that  yet another developer (a foreign developer at that) has put in plans for a marina on the north coast of the island almost right in front of the very important Russian Destroyer dive site, a stone's throw from the airport terminal, and the shoreline and proposed approach channel of the marina are part of one of Cayman Brac's largest and most richly bio-diverse MARINE PARKS!!??

      This developer also plans to cut open the land and create a basin and expose a critically important area of the island to flooding, all on the doorstep of a Marine Park and our only airport!

      I and several other concerned Brackers have seen the plans and we are horrified! All Brackers who care about their islands should be appalled. Marinaa and  marine parks are NOT compatible at all! How, we ask, can government even think of allowing anyone permission to violate a Marine Park? Where is the National Trust on all this? Don't they or anyone else care that a very important marine park and dive site is about to be trashed so a rich developer can become even more wealthy?  We don't have enought Marine Park areas as it is to consider raping what little we have for these marinas. I hope Ms. Gina Ebanks Petrie, the DOE, the National Trust and The Hon. Mr. Moses Kirkconnell will lead the charge of PROTECTING our environment and especially our Marine Parks!  No amount of environmental studies can convince me that it is all OK to allow our Marine Parks to be compromised to favour a couple of wealthy developers.

  4. Anonymous says:

    Read it again my dear. The indecipherable words are a direct quotation.

  5. Anonymous says:

    Politicians dancing like performing animals to woo the over represented voters of the Lesser Caymans.

  6. Anonymous says:

    Who needs boaters. It could be re-fueling stop for drug runners to Miami. Charge them a premium also. They might want to rest up at the hotel.

  7. Anonymous says:

    Cant we just sell the Brac to Dart and be done with the parasitic weight around our necks

    • Anonymous says:

      Dart will buy the Brac when he is damn good and ready to. Please don't try to speed it up.  He has his plan and, sadly, I think it is too late for us to stop him.

  8. Lost at sea says:

    “Soon, he said, the islanders would have to deal with the same criminal activity as Grand Cayman if they let the people there “ground you into the ground because of their environmental likes and dislikes”.”

    A truly intellectual analysis of crime and causation.

    We can surely trust his judgement on shoreline excavations and hotel management too!

  9. Anonymous says:

    The problem is that before the hotel was build the udp was in power & they promised him the canal! Keke was there for the cutting of the ribon! I say cut the canal I’ll buy a piece of land before it goes through so I can keep my boat! Wp

  10. anon says:

    This is a continuation of that which was set into motion during the previous bout of mal-administration of the Cayman Islands.

  11. 4Cayman says:

    I am surprised that we would allow such a development to occur when the envorinment could be jeapordized forever?

    In a world when every developed country is concerned about global warming, carbon foot prints and the environment, our country is doing the opposite. It's quite alarming our mother country is quiet on this issue and why is it other organizations are not involved on this matter? If every country destroyed their envorinment then what's the point of trying to save the world from catesrophic events such hurricanes, flooding, fires, etc?

    if one wants to stimulate an economy, destroying the envorinment is not the answer. Tread lightly and cautiously Brackers, you may save your jobs in the interim but may lose a lot more in the next hurricane, quake or even dive sites.

    • Anonymous says:

      4 cayman.

      I beg to ask the question again, can you please explain in common language, how will the Dilbert development of this marina, possibly  jeapordize the Invironment?

      And i wish that all you storm experts, would but to bed, about these canals and inlet- cuts, saying  they will cause major hurricane damages.

      My friend, in 1932 hurricane that hit the Brac, there were no canals, cuts or dredged areas.

      And guess what my friends? the tidal waves came over every piece of low lying land. all stopped the waves from meeting north to south was the 180 feet bluff.

      Let me just say this, Hurricanes do not need canals, marinas or cut in the land to be destructive.

      the cyclone spins at such a force and speed, which creates a vacumn, which in turn elevates the ocean water to heights of 20 to 30 feet, so anything below that level will get covered in water.

      You all must have been in la la land when Ivan visit us. You all never did learn from that storm. Ivan came ashore on the south coast of Grand Cayman which no canals.

      I hope this will put all this to rest. If you are against Dilbert's marina ofr  other reasons, say so but stop making yourselves look like fools about storms. you know nothing about hurricanes.

      • Truthseeker says:
        Storm surge
         
        Source: NOAA
         
        "Storm surge is caused primarily by 
        the strong winds in a hurricane or 
        tropical storm. The low pressure of 
        the storm has minimal contribution! "
         
        Source: 4 cayman
         
         "stop making yourselves look like fools about storms. you know nothing about hurricanes."
        • Anonymous says:

          No, thats not right!

          At the centre of any low pressure, the sea rises, for example, in tidal areas, say the Channel Islands where I now live, a depression or low pressure system will affect the height the tide achieves, sometimes to the extent of cancelling out a low tide, and this in a place where tidal range can be 40 feet! 

          The hurricane is the most intense of low pressure areas, and at its centre the pressure gradient is at its greatest, causing literally a bubble. For example, if Ivan had passed over Grand Cayman, surge would have been at about 30 feet, not the 10 or 15 feet that was at the edges. The winds were thus higher for Grand Cayman, and the waves associated were of course massive, but in fact we were saved from the extreme surge which flooded at 15 feet, but dare you imagine the effect at 30 feet!

          None of this is relevant for the issue under discussion because a direct hit like say the 1932 hurricane caused 32 feet of surge which would have flooded the wholeof the area under discussion, canal or no canal!

          Hope that helps!

          • Truthseeker says:

            Sorry, I quoted a credible scientific source (NOAA), you quoted personal experience in an area of shallow water. where any effects can be exagerated by build up over a shelf. If you look up "storm surge" on Wikipedia or elsewhere, you will find that the low pressure effect is now considered far less important than the wind effect. Please do your research.

            There is no possibility of a 32 ft storm surge on an island surrounded by deep water, with almost no "continental" shelf, any more than a significant tsunami for the same reasons. We are essentially like an oil platform in deep water the middle of the Gulf. Tsunamis (and storm surges are typically very low amplitude (less than 3 feet) in deep water.

            If this island could have a 32 ft surge, then statistically that would have happened multiple times in the last few thousand years and there would be virtually no old vegetation as most of the island is far less than 20ft above sea level.

            Truthseeker

            • Anonymous says:

              The 32 feet figure was the estimate following actual observations after the 1930's hurricane.

              The comments regarding effects on water at the centre of a depression are both those of personal observation, and indeed are regularly used in calculations of expected sea levels in sensitive areas.

              I accept that NOaa is downgrading the importance of surge, and that is because on top of any surge you have wave, and in such storms that is far more significant, but the two together are devastating.

              And a small warning to you, Wikipedia is not a definitive source, you can write your own definition there!

              Finally, I withdraw much of my objection as written above if Dilbert is to be the man funding the project, let him lose his own money.

            • Anonymous says:

              Wow two of you fighting on this matter.

              First Cayman was  on the edge of Ivan, we were in the eye wall.

              We did ot get he maximum stom surge probably another 5 feet o so at most.

              Ivan wa either  peak cat IV or a imnimum cat V when it hit Cayman

              This means Cayman has seen its worst yet but I agree 30+ feet is not likely. The water around Cayman is too deep minimises storm surge.

              And pleae the storms that the UK get are not huricanes.

              • Anonymous says:

                Correct, not hurricanes, I didnt say they were, they are however depressions or low pressure areas, and thats what produces higher than normal levels. Hurricanes are extreme depressions and produce extreme "surges" or increase in height. Ivan as you say passed such that its eye wall hit our south coast and thus surge was less, probably 8 to 10 feet.

                I recall researching hurricane effect when I first came to Cayman because I wanted to assess business risk, and it was the observed evidence of the 1932 hurricane in Brac that gave the 32 feet figure, a big storm and the island at its centre. I recall asking local staff about hurrcanes, dont worry they said, First, we are too small, they dont see us, Second the water is too deep and therefore cold, so surge doesnt happen, And Third, God is on our side. The last reason had marginally more credibility than the other two!

                Thats it folks, nothing more on this subject.

      • Anonymous says:

        I generally ignore comments on environmental issues from someone who spells "environment" "invironment".  It tends to show they are talking out of somewhere other than their mouth.

  12. Anonymous says:

    If anyone thinks that making a marina there is going to help the hotel, you have another thought coming.  Ask Bacadere Marina what their business is like and Grand Cayman is more popular than Cayman Brac.  It is just another hope against all odds and just a drowning man clutching at straws.  Believe me, the Brac won't be any further ahead, only deeper in the hole.

  13. Anonymous says:

    Sounds painful.

  14. SKEPTICAL says:

    When American Presidents like FDR invested hundreds of millions of dollars in vast public construction projects like the Hoover dam, to create jobs, they also created long term economic resources from which the US still benefits. A half-arsed Marina in Cayman Brac will generate no LONG TERM financial benefits for the local population. There aren't enough recreational boaters to justify the facility, and owners of large motor yachts would not see the Brac as a priority destination in this part of the Caribbean. How many of Mac's so called Mega Yachts visit Grand Cayman throughout the year. Neither island has year round safe anchorages for the "Big Boys" , and their insurance companies make it very unattractive to risk getting caught with your anchor down, in a risky location, during the six months of the hurricane season. This idea may employ a few people for a very short time, but it will end up as a financial millstone around somebody's neck, and drown them. 

  15. Anonymous says:

    I agree with Mac. The wearing of Marinas should be mandated by law!

  16. Anonymous says:

    Many of the things that made Grand Cayman appealing to tourists were done many years ago when there were no environmental regulations. Now that Cayman Brac wishes to do some simiar things to help itself,  we are getting blasted by arogant people in Grand Cayman, who oppose Cayman Brac doing similar things that will give critics less reason to slur Cayman Brac about.its weak economy.   Laws that may have becoe necessary for Grand Cayman can be crippling to Cayman Brac in its present stage. 
    H. O. Merren & Co. of George Town, Grand Cayman used to have on their letter-head  "The Island that time forgot."    I remember that Grand Cayman had a struggling economy until  the Bahamas became somewhat unstable,and scared investors left there and brought prosperity to Grand Cayman.   Investors would probably have went elsewhere if present day restrctions had been opposing much of what was done back then.
    It  now seems that mainly people of secure financial standing, living comfortably in Grand 
    Cayman, are the ones opposing a project that offers Cayman Brac some employment and business that it desperately needs.
    Incientally the people who appealed to Govenment on behalf of Mr. Dilberts project were not
    Governmen emplyees, they were nefvertheless Cayman Brac-ers of as high a calbre  as can  be found anywhere..

    A born  Cayman Brac-er   

        

      

  17. Anonymous says:

    I hope those " 21 solid Cayman Brackers – educated Brackers and with good common sense”, also made “a unanimous decision” to pay for any and all damages that should occur to surrounding properties as a result of this project.

  18. Anonymous says:

                  I continue to hear this body of water referred to as a saltwater pond ,but is it really a saltwater pond ,or is it a fresh water pond that has been contaminated by saltwater.Over the years this could have occurred naturally by storm surge and hurricane waves. . I believe this question has to be answered before any attempt at dredging or otherwise altering the pond takes place.                                                                                       If it is a freshwater pond then it should be oxygenated  as suggested by other commenters,perhaps  water features such as  fountains  could be added to  aid in this. After this the pond could be improved by adding tarpon and other freshwater fish and hicatees.Perhaps tarpon feeding and fishing (catch and release), hicatee feeding ,and whistling duck feeding could all be developed as attractions around this pond which would benefit not only the Alexander Hotel,but Brac tourism as a whole.                          

  19. Knot S Smart says:

    This is the second time that I agreed with Mac. The first time that I was in agreement with him was when he was Premier  and the issue ofLegal Aid was a hot topic and he made a comment something like 'if the criminals were not guilty then they would not be charged'…

  20. Anonymous says:

    A marina needs boats to provide any income.

    Now, keep an all Island watch over, say next month, and count the passing boats that might be customers! OK, if there was a facility they might be more likely to route that way, but ask yourself where from and where would they be heading. No, I cant see a viable customer base either!

    • Anonymous says:

      This is a scheme to get all the fill and sell it. Plain and simple.

    • Boatswain Bill says:

      This complete and utter load of sensible logic flies in the face of the time honoured maxim that “If we build it they will come”.

      When has that ever not been proven true? We are going to keep doing it until we find out.

    • Anonymous says:

      How many folks from Grand Cayman would take their boat to Cayman Brac for the weekend if the could have safe moorings….quite a few….all those sailboats crisscrossing the area….this will work in Cayman Brac..in fact I think they should give approval for 2 marinas, one on south side and one on the north side.

    • Braccanal 21 says:

      Duh. Cubean refugees are always coming in. Govt could pay the marina owner to allow them to dock for a few weeks whenever they visit.

    • Anonymous says:

      12;10

      Maybe you want to ask Raymand Scott or further more listen keenly to the radio. Raymond is in contact with the boats and ships that pass in and around the cayman Islands.

      He is extremely knowledgeable with the mass ocean traffic around these Islands.

      I dont think you are qualified to make that statement, leave those things for the proffesionals. 

      • Anonymous says:

        Not qualified to make that statement?

        First, I asked a question, it wasnt a statement, albeit a rhetorical question which of itself shows that the project would be a waste of public money.

        Second, how much of this "radio traffic" is from passing yachts? Those are the boats that a marina needs, and sir, I have extensive practical knowledge of yachts in the Caribbean, so maybe I am more qualified than Mr Scott!

        Remember, ships dont use marinas, fishing boats dont either because they dont like the cost, and the drug trafickers, well lets not go there!

      • Get Real says:

        I hope you are not suggesting that a wooden pier in an excavated duck pond is suddenly going to become a port of call for super tankers and bulk ore carriers.

    • Anonymous says:

      If you own a boat in Miami you go to the Bahamas,  if you want more of an adventure you sail down the WinWord and Leeward Islands. The Tradewinds are favorable and the line of sight Sailing makes easy navigation.

      Nothing is going to change a geographically undesirable location in the Western Caribbean. Too many days at sea without land insight.

      I am an avid sailor and am sorry to say there is no charter boat business to be had in the Cayman Islands. 70 nautical miles separate Grand Cayman and Cayman Brac.  Ceinfuegos Cuba is a two plus day sail and Jamaica is five days upwind.

      if you build it, they still will not come!

      if this proposed marina is for a destination refueling spot for our a very few wealthy fishermen with 50 foot powerboats then the taxpayers are completely being fooled to foot a flight of fancy cronyism project.

      Forget the environmental impact study, has anyone thought if this will this bring a dime into our economy? No, just a place for the fat cats to hang out on the weekends. Nice try Moses, keep using Cayman Airways.

    • Anonymous says:

      You of all wouldnt see that. You already condemn this marina. let Dilbert worry about the boats that will come or not come.

      • Anonymous says:

        I dont "condemn" it, I just dont want to see a large slice of taxpayers cash wasted on it! A later poster tells me to leave this issue to people that know, well as a sailing person for some 60 years, as one that has cruised on my boat extensively in and around the Cayman Islands and the surrounding Caribbean, I DO know the areas that attract marina custom, and this, including ALL the Cayman Islands will never be one of those simply because it is in the middle of an area that has well trodden routes around its edges, but is simply too far removed from the popular parts to be of interest!

        Just look at a map and highlight the areas that do attract small boats!

  21. Savannah Resident says:

    What about the National Conservation Law?  When will the government begin to adhere to the principles of the NCL they passed?  Furthermore, why is it that the Brac always requires their own unique boards, rules and regulations?  Are we not all part of the Cayman Islands? The rules and regulations of DoE were created for the entire Cayman Islands not just Grand Cayman.  

    Before the Brackers come out in rage, every resident in the Cayman Islands pays in direct tax via various mediums.  The rules should apply equally to all.  

    Furthermore, what evidence is there proving that this proposed marina will bring boaters to the Brac?  The Cayman Islands is not within close proximity to other small islands like those islands within the Eastern Caribbean?  What exactly is the incentive to stop in Cayman Brac?

    Lastly, the call for stimulating the economy will only be a temporary patch for a much wider problem.  People will be employed only during the construction phrase of this project, what happens once the development has finished?  The answer to my rhetorical question is simple; the unemployment problem will continue to escalate.   A solution to the Brac unemployment is to encourage eco business and family oriented outdoor activities to name a few examples.  

    I only hope my ideas will stimulate further conservation on the matter

    For the record I am Caymanian. So please refrain from raising the usual argument of 'them vs us'

    • We Special says:

      You: Caymanians

      Us: Brackers

      Entirely different!!

    • Anonymous says:

      To Savannah residenbce.

      Having a conservation law doesnt mean the country has to stop developing. It is only there as a guide line as to what nature we can sacrifice to make space for mankind to survive in.

      When God made this earth, he plainly said replenish the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, the fowl of the air and everything that move upon the earth.

      He has given us every herb bearing seed, every tree with which yield fruits.

      Every thing was put on earth for man to utilize.

      It is so ironic that once a human being has his castle, he wants not to see another tree cut down for another to build his castle.

      In the real civilized World where most of these objectors are from, their Governmnets sat aside parcels of land for  preservation properties, they did do try to stop  development in the name of coservation.

      We need to growup and be more mature in our decisions. Stop ruling this country by emotions. 

       

      • Ham Job says:

        Preach brother! Preach!

        Only you can fix what the Creator hath wrought. I guess he didn’t really know what he was doing when he made all these “natural impediments”.

        If you all could just be allowed to bust open your reef and chip the Bluff down to a nub you will surely make an earthly paradise.

    • Anonymous says:

      Your line of reasoning is self-defeating. What evidence do you have to prove that eco business will improve the economy any more than will the three proposed marinas and accompanying resort projects? What the hell is "eco business" anyway?  Your comment is rife with empty rhetoric but quite lacking in thoughtful substance. 

  22. Anonymous says:

    This is starting to make the canal across the road in South Sound look like a good idea. At least Rene didn't ask government to pay him $3.5 million for the fill he dug out of the road when cutting the channel.

    • Anonymous says:

      FYI: The proposal currently on the table has Mr. Dilbert paying for the project, including redirection of the roads, out of his own pocket. It seems no one here has picked up on this fact.

      Where facts are lost, clueless propaganda abounds. 

      • Anonymous says:

        Fact, what fact? Can you provide a link to any publically published statement to the effect that the developer is going to pay for the road? Especially in light of the original proposal being Government paying him for the fill he would dig out of the Government pond so that Government could build the road.

        As reported on this website ('Brac Hotel Closing in April') Dilbert's submitted-to-government bussiness plan was that Government would pay $3.5 million dollars for the fill dug from the pond.

        • Anonymous says:

          You are a way too ill-informed about the issue to be qualified to comment. In case you have not have read this in the papers or online, I will tell you now: the news media and Internet are not humanity's only source of  "facts". OK?   It will be a sad day when I depend solely on being spoon fed my information like a baby dependent on Mommy.

          You see, I had more than your obviously casual spoon-feed-me-so-I-can-bitch-online interest in this. I wanted to be more than casually involved in the issue. My motivation goes far beyond finding out barely just enough to author vacuous online comments. I wanted to know the facts and the rest of the story not necessarily reported by the media. So, from the very start  I did something that until nowprobably has not occurred to you, or to most of the arm-chair whiners here: I went directly to the source and I spoke to Mr. Dilbert and his sons personally. He and they also offered to share a written description of their proposals to government and even graphics of the proposed project.

          It is a very sad thing that there are people like you whose only access to "facts" occurs when someone can "provide a link" or point them to a "website" containing second hand information.

          One of the reasons the Dilbert's have not splashed this all over the Internet form the start is that they wanted to avoid making this a media circus and trusted the system to work.  Timothy is an IT specialist and is very well-qualified to conduct a media war, but that is obviously not their style. They only responded publicly when the issue started to become a media and forum circus. But they are still reluctant to play the game Gina and the DOE started.  But, as I heard often growing up in an island household: "Circumstances alter cases" and they began preparing press releases to counter the misinformation the DOE began feeding the media.

          If you are so concerned about this issue, one should think that you would want good quality, first hand details.  Mr. Dilbert is not a hard man to contact. Cleveland is pretty well known around here, as are his sons. You probably see them about town pretty often.

          So, here, let me close by providing you with a few "links" that will be sources far more informative than any you could click with your mouse: Cleveland Dilbert, and sons: Damien Dilbert, and, Timothy Dilbert. If you ask one of them nicely, you can probably get the written proposal and even some pretty graphics of the project.Right from the source. (Now that's a novel idea, eh?)

          And I also spoke with Gina Ebanks-Petrie about the project, ditto for the National Trust, Minister Panton, Premiere McLaughlin, Deputy Premiere Moses Kirkconnell and even Makeeva. All I can say is that with all the "agendas" I perceive, this ain't gonna be pretty.

          Oh, by the way, Bright Box, the statement by Mr. Dilbert that, and I quote the source "…he will be paying for all the development…" IS ONLINE!  This information was also published in the printed media. But I will not spoon feed you the link or the web site or the publication. The sources are not hard to find but you were just too lazy to check the even the online "facts" for yourself . You are like far too many people here who depend on Mommy or Daddy spoon feeding them. So sad.

      • Anonymous says:

        Mr. Dilbert said the project couldn't work without government paying $3.5 million for the fill dug up from the canal. Were his initial calculations that far off?

        If you look at the number of people in the Brac who had their homes "repaired" for free and to a much higher standard that they were before Paloma, as well a expecting not only free generators but free gas to run them after the storm, then it's quite logical to expect government to throw in $3.5 million on a project in the name of "helping" the Brac economy.

        • Anonymous says:

          Thank you! You have just added a nice piece of evidence that people here are not familiar enough with the issues to make informed intelligent comments.

          Dilbert's original proposal which converted the whole pond into a yacht basin would not be viable without Government agreeing to purchase the fill at cost. However, immediately after receiving word from government that their dire financial straits precluded them from buying the fill, Dilbert reduced the scope of the project to 1/3 of the pond and offered to personally fund the project in its entirety – including the redirection of the roads.

           

  23. Anonymous says:

    This is politics at its best and worse; best in that they all want to appease a wealthy supporter who made a bad business decision and worst in that they don't have the balls to say balls to you know his is an environmental disaster.  I admire Gina and DoE for being honest even when it isn't popular.  Must be Mr. Benson's daughter!  May she live and reign for a long time yet.  Thank you Gina.  A born Caymanian who dearly loves the Brac.

  24. Michel says:

    I believe that before anyone makes a quick important approval for the smellier pond and C.D. Hotel please read today’s letter in Compass of Capt. Bob Soto and I will take his opinion any time. So take it as a Free advice of what he says will happen is they do what they propose, where and how to do it. Start to listen to your own Wise seaman,treasure hunter, builder of cat boats and much more. That I believe the House is also in Cayman Brac for. Others hidden agendas. Yes the Brac and Brackers are really hurting and it hurts me too to see that. But then there is a threat to close down (old indian trick) and then they all panicked. The hotel developers knew that. Time to get people to work by looking at the tourism infrastructure and get investments of what is needed. For priorities(why not a group of caymanians ?). It’s time to get Cayman Brac and Little Cayman on track. For now better Connections with all airlines and have something to offer. But not because 1 guy wants his way and sure it stinks, it’s been stinking a long time. Start organizing the dump while most people live in Grand Cayman from their. With all du respect, Michel Lemay

    • Anonymous says:

      This is not about smells or marinas. It is about recouping the cost of a bad investment idea and getting the taxpayer to pay for it.

      • Anonymous says:

        11;55

        This is about progress for the Brac. we waited 40 years on this opportunity. just go away!

        Why keep harping on about smell and pond was there first and the hotel came after and Dilbert knew the smell and the pond was there. Its past that point. Lets move on.The Brac should be kissing this man"s back side for taking on this big risk.

        What i think should have happened was the government do a joint venture and demuck the whole pond. Take the eastern end for a cargo port.

  25. Anonymous says:

    The PPM government stood firm on their position.

    The government voted for the motion, but only after it had been amended to say that its support for the marina was contingent on the results of an environmental impact study – a position it already held, regardless of the motion.

    I live on Cayman Brac, and I think the PPM has made the right decision.  

    • Anonymous says:

      What results? What do you think the EIA will say that hasn't been said already? Or, to use poli-speak, what is the 'red line' up to which its OK to build the marina? In the case of the GT Port the 'red line' was established as 7-mile beach. As long as that isn't detrimentally impacted they're building their port. anything else the environmental, economic or social assessments throw up (reefs, costs, roads) are just problmes to be overcome. What is the EIA redline for the Dilbert Marina? If there isn't one, and there doesnt' seem to be, then the EIA is just window dressing on a done decision.  

  26. Anonymous says:

    I never follow Mac myself but I think ths is a great project for Cayman Brac. It will bring jobs and tourism. If anyone has smelt that pond you would vote to dig it up yesterday. Great motion Mac even though I am not a supportoer of yours….too many people around here crazy about one mangrove or one whistling duck. Lets get the Cayman Brqac economy going. thank you.

    • Anonymous says:

      Any jobs that is a result of this so called "good idea" will only be temporary.

      The economic stimulus needed to jump start the Brac economy is one that is long term and attractive to people. This "build it and they will come" mentality only works for casinos, which we would prefer to do undercover before heading off to church.

      So, the scent may be taken care of, but the problem will continue.

    • noname says:

      What about the other three adjacent watershed ponds?  They smell also when the mud is exposed.    Dig them up too?   To hell with the wildlife and protected areas?     This pond will always stink, until something is done to mitigate the biological reactions that occur.    This project is not about stink anyway.    I live here on the Brac.    I haven't heard anyone who lives here being really concerned with the smell.    It's just a seasonal thing, same as with Little Cayman.  

      This is about a man who made a bad business decision to build a hotel where there are no environmental inducements to draw tourists.   A hotel that — byMr. Dilbert's own words — has been losing $150,000 each year since its opening.  

      Throw good money after bad and risk an unreversable environmental disaster?   Terrible odds in my book. 

  27. Anonymous says:

    Watching what goes on in the MLA is mildly more amusing than Mexican soap operas.

  28. Sea Ray says:

    What a load of …

    So the crew that want to railroad this through despite any environmental or economic cost win another round.

    Our government are either hapless buffoons, or take the public for that. So much for probity, fiscal responsibility (govt. still has to pay for major parts of this, or is the plan supposed to have changed again?) and National Conservation. 

     
    • Anonymous says:

      You ought to read the article before commenting: "The government voted for the motion, but only after it had been amended to say that its support for the marina was contingent on the results of an environmental impact study – a position it already held, regardless of the motion".

      • Anonymous says:

        Ahhhh, right. The ole environmental impact study (wink wink)  Those studies have shut down so many projects here ( cuz, you know, we respect the environment) that I literally can't count them

      • Free for All says:

        PPM “media and thumbs up service” hard at work this morning. Who ya gonna get to do the EIA? Percy and Foots?

        • Anonymous says:

          To tell you the truth! I would trust Percy any day to do the EIA, dont know about Foots!

          Percy got more intelligence than all you put together.

          I will bet the first modle he would look at, is the past hurricanes that flooded our low lands, which at the time had no open in the reefs or cut into the land. But the ocean still came inland. Smart man he is!

    • Anonymous says:



      Sea Ray, I note that you are another one of these ever increasing CNS bloggers who cannot read, life must be dififcult.

      • Sting Ray says:

        No, no. We get it. That's the point. So we fully understand that politicians lie and say whatever they think people want to hear.

        The EIA is just smoke.

         

        • Anonymous says:

          You say its a smoke . I say its damn discusting! why do we need to waste money on  EIA when it will prove nothing.

          One common sense is all that is needed.  

          Experience teaches one to be wise.

          Ask all the natives of these Island, in the past, when every hurricane came on shore, did they come through any canals or cuts in the reef.

          I will take South Sound for an example. There is not one inland cut in the south sound coast line. As a matter of fact there are no inland cut  on the 22 miles of the south coast of Grand Cayman.

           We all know that is where Ivan came ashore and breached the island. The ocean came inland as far as smith road.

          We have to start using what God gave man to survive on this earth…a brain and common sense.

           Lets put our emotions in perspective. Emotions are a weakness of the heart, we were given that to express grief, sorrows and sympathy.

          Lets stop the envy and jelousy, which is  something God should have kept from mankind.

           

          • Anonymous says:

            And along the western coast of the  North Sound of Grand Cayman the Ivan flooding came further, with greater force, where there were canals than where there were not. – The point you have to prove is not that hurricanes don't need canals to cause damage but that canals don't increase potential hurricane damage. At least if you want to address that objection directly.

    • Anonymous says:

      Mr. Dilbert put forth more than one plan, one of which reduced the scope of the project and has him paying for the entire project, including the rerouting of roads. It is the latter plan that is being proposed.  Somehow people commenting here have the incorrect notion that the project will be substantially funded by government. This is not the case. If you discount comments here that are based on faulty information, including yours, this thread would be virtually empty.

      • Anonymous says:

        Lets see the plans. So far the only one thats seen the light of day has Government paying the developers millions of dollars.

  29. Free for All says:

    You people in South Sound had better be prepared for a little canal and marina too.

    The proponents of that scheme are also unanimous……

  30. Hyacinth Bucket says:

    “Twenty one Brackers and I are unanimous! We need more riparian entertainment if we are to keep up appearances!”

    • Anonymous says:

      Please note that most of the Brackers work for government so they can't say anything.  Believe me, all the intelligent Brackers don't want any of those marinas. There is a lot going on but people are afraid to speak up because they are afraid of losing their jobs.  Notice how the whistleblowing legislation was shot down yesterday?

      • Anonymous says:

        You government workers have it backwards. The politicians are afraid of you. If you only realised your power you could really "run tings".

        Work together. What are they going to do? Fire the whole Brac workforce?

         

      • Anonymous says:

        I can believe you when you said "all  the intelligent  Brackers dont want these Marinas".

        For one, they are well taken care of by  the Grand Caymanian tax payers. They all own their own homes and transport and collect a salary every month until the day they pass on.

        Their health insurance  and pension are paid for, by the Grand Caymanin tax payers.

        These recipiants that are living off the backs of Grand Cayman developments, must realise thatif, we  the people in Grand Cayman had not sacrifice a part of their nature to create the high rise buildings which house commerce. Where would the money come from to

        Hotels and condos which brings in the tourism dollars, roads for the people to drive from point to point, and i could go on.

        All the  above sacrifices we took, so they, Brackers can raise their children, send them to good schools and enjoy a good life. So bet the case!

        Shame on you if 09;54 is speaking  the truth!

      • Anonymous says:

        You are clueless. In numerous committess, plans, initiatives – including several on which I participated, and in countless public meeting I have attended, when the issue of a marina was raised,  the people of Cayman Brac have voiced overwhelmingly strong support for the development of a marina on Cayman Brac. Had government taken up the initiative to facilitate this, including likely site identification and incentives, a marina would already be a reality and we would not be having this debate. You are a typical Johnny-come-lately who chimes in with no knowlege of the issue but lots of propaganda.

        • Anonymous says:

          Government does not get involved with development until Developer get involved with the pocket books of Politicians!

    • Ironic says:

      Hyacinth, dear.   You have no broughtupsy like what I have got.

      Sincerely.

      Mrs Slocum

  31. Brac Landowner says:

    So 21 Brackers made a “unanimous decision” to demand that sensible environmental regulations be jettisoned to facilitate the breaching of the shoreline and a reef without any proper analysis of the consequences?

    And a man currently under arrest for various misdeeds says jump and the PPM boys say how high?

    You couldn’t make this stuff up if you tried.

    Just another day in LaLaLand……..

    • Anonymous says:

      Now I say, I say, I say….. dat boy is just as sharp as a bowling ball ! ! ! :0)

  32. Anonymous says:

    mckeeva……..who cares…zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

     

  33. Anonymous says:

     After the last election  I came to the conclusion that McKeeva would not control the Cayman Is government again until at least May 2017.Well looks like he is back in charge,3 years early.Guess what he did not even have to win an election to do it. Wow.

    • Anonymous says:

      Typical McKeeva supporter – short on reading comprehension: "The government voted for the motion, but only after it had been amended to say that its support for the marina was contingent on the results of an environmental impact study – a position it already held, regardless of the motion".

    • Anonymous says:

      0:55, like Sea Ray, you seem to be able to write, but cannotread, how is that possible?

  34. Otherview says:

    I suppose the cost of the Enviroment Impact Study will be "buried" in the 2014/2015 CIG

    budget some where next to the "Ex-Cop's payoff" as these developers are shy to spend 

    a pence of their own money on this private project.

  35. Anonymous says:

    Who is "Mac"?

    • Anonymous says:

      Who is Mac!

      Mac is the only Caymanian with balls to get anything done in the Cayman Islands.  whether you like him or hate him you have to give him the praise!

      • Anonymous says:

        Almost right.

        Mac. Cayman Islands. Done.

      • Anonymous says:



        Remind us what Mac has done other than cause embarassment to us all, spend our money at the Hard Rock and fool an entire district for 30yrs?

      • Anonymous says:

        If by "getting things done" you mean "spend lots of money on deals without going thorugh appropriate processes because he knew best about everything" then he got things done.  If you mean "getting things done" in the sense of "achieving anything" then I am afraid the population that does not live in West Bay will have to diagree with your blind loyalty.

  36. Anonymous says:

    Move the Legislative Assembly to the Bluff and require MLAs to spend Mon-Thurs there.

    Then we’ll see how much they all love the Brac.

    Everything happening at this point is vote pandering and payback to campaign donors.

    We are into the fourth term of parties and have nothing to show other than wasted money and lost opportunity.

    The politicians are doing very well for themselves however.