CI quarries can supply marl

| 08/05/2014

(CNS): The Iron Wood Development project currently being considered by the Cayman Islands Government depends heavily on roughly ten miles of road extension, referred to as the East-West Arterial Extension, being approved by the FCO. But in addition to the $40 million dollar price tag, the matter of whether there is enough non-processed aggregate on island to complete the project has also been raised as a concern during public discourse. Experts in the aggregate industry, however, unanimously concurred that that there was absolutely no reason why the amount of rock needed for the extension, which could be in excess of 750,000 cubic yards, can't be sourced on island.

Speaking to CNS, National Roads Authority Managing Director (Acting) Paul Parchment said, “If you look at what transpired … with the Esterley Tibbetts Highway the other day, there was no problem at all. No aggregate was imported there and in my 27 years in the business I have not known there to be a shortage of supply for any road project.”

He added that the main focus would be bringing everyone together and having all quarries participate in such projects.

“It’s about diversity of materials and accessing the volume. The NRA tries to treat everyone fairly and it also gives everyone the opportunity to be transparent about pricing with no underbidding. It’s a great way to give everyone work.”

Parchment said he couldn’t comment on whether the 2016 deadline could be met, as he thought it was better for the ministry to comment on such matters. Additionally, he noted that the Esterley Tibbetts Highway had set many precedents in how roads would be built in the Cayman Islands going forward.

There are two models the government could use to do the road. The first is having the NRA do the road completely, or secondly having a private firm do the road and the NRA providing quality control and project oversight, a model Parchment said worked well on the Esterley Tibbets Highway. The decision may come down to cost, he added.

At a recent Chamber of Commerce 'Be Informed' meeting, David Moffitt, one of the principals involved in the Ironwood development in Frank Sound, who is proposing to undertake the road project via a loan to government, indicated that the developers had approached GLF Construction about building the road. GLF was one of the developers that the Cayman government had been in talks with as a possible partner for the George Town cruise berthing project.

The issue of design and how deep the area for the road is excavated will also play a large part in determining how much aggregate is needed and the choice to dig through to rock or to use geo-textiles as a means of stabilizing the road over a 25-year period will also play a role on the local business of aggregate.

In the Cayman Islands, the Aggregate Advisory Committee is the government agency tasked with assessing the amounts of aggregate available in the Cayman Islands and then approving quarries based on that information.

CNS called Scott Slaybaugh of the AAC but so far we have been unable to reach him.

There are currently five major pits on island that could participate in the project, according to industry insider and quarry owner, Stanley Scott.

The Aggregate Advisory Committee has said that unprocessed rock has to be sourced on island because of the dangers that can be posed by cross-contamination of species and other risks posed by importing. However, processed or refined aggregate has to be sourced from overseas in some instances, with outside suppliers having to comply with inspection by the Cayman Islands Department of Environmental Health. The DEH then issues certificates to those suppliers.

When asked about his quarries potential to muster enough aggregate to assist in the East-West Arterial Extension, Stanley Scott of Scott’s Equipment Ltd, said, “I don’t see any problem at all with enough material for that road on Island. We have a couple million dollars in our pit but I imagine everyone will have a chance to participate. I really don’t think there will be any hold up material wise. They have an idea of what the area is like and how much material is needed. It’s not guess work. All that needs to happen is to get a set price for all parties involved.”

Denise Gower of Fountainhead, the Public Relations Company representing the Ironwood developers, said that in all of her discussions with aggregate providers on island, there has always been overwhelming assurance that there is more than enough material on Island to
complete the project within the time frame.

“The quarries owners are aware of what will be required for the project well in advance and so they are able to prepare and will also be given enough notice before the actual project,” she added.

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Comments (37)

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  1. Anonymous says:

    Instead why not build house boat communities that ride up and down with water level? Then oo fill is required for the footprint just a large berm surrounding the development. Most ofGrand Cayman will be underwater in 50 years anyway.

  2. Anonymous says:

    local quarries can easy supply over 10 mill of fill if needed !!!

    i say NO IMPORTING !  keep it local  !!

    • M McLaughlin says:

      10 million cubic yards of fill, it would take 8 to 9 years to produce that here with the equipment presently in place – the most aggregate produce locally at any given time was in our history was around 1,000,000 CUBIC YARDS a year at East End by Quarry Products and Savannah at the Bodden's Quarry.

      (The other Quarries came after and all combined now can't even produce 500,000 cubic yards for the year). These guy haven't invested into proper equipment but they are running off at the mouth that they can produce.

      In East End we had the option to work 7 days a week (60 hour weeks) and we only produced 2000 to 2400 cubic yard per day. Big $$$$ everyone was happy, thanks to Mr. Dick.

      Don't get me wrong I'm not disputing that it can't be done locally, just saying we need to look at logistics of whole operation.

  3. Anonymous says:

     Do you have a place to go when this tiny speck of an island starts sinking? Not in your life time? Don't be so sure.

  4. the numbers don't lie says:

    A mile is 1760 yds,  so 10 miles will be 17,600 yds  The roads are 10 yds wide ( 30 ft)   The area of road will be 17,600 x 10 yds or 176,000 sq yds. (area is lenght x widith)

    If they say 750,000 Cu Yds will be required they are assuming that for every sq yd of roadit would be 750,000 / 176,000 ,or an average of  4.26 yds of aggregate to finish the road…at least. (volume is Lenght x widith x depth).

    4.26 yards is more than 12 ft. deep..and as we all know you find ground water 12 ft any where on the island.

    It might do well to get the material from the island..all that water that being displaced need to go some place.

    These are not the only numbers to look at either….there is a reason why Dart and other developers continue to dig out these ponds and lakes…The water has to have some where to go.

     

     

     

  5. Anonymous says:

    poster 20:46 you are only seeing what isgoing on in the pond by the new by pass now because of that new road , that has been a quarry for many decades get the facts before you post.

  6. Anonymous says:

    Yup — Go on… just keep on digging the MEGA-HOLES like those already found across Grand Cayman & Cayman Brac, and soon the mother of all sink-holes will crash this flat rock into the sea…

    Eg. The Huge holes around Pedro Castle, and the "pond" next to the new West Bay bypass.

  7. Bella says:

    Lets mine it all, idiots. Future generations will condemn you.

  8. Anonymous says:

    Get it from the local quarries that have a history of following the rules (ie not those "exempt from enforcement action" because they've broken the rules for over 3 years), quarry from land that belongs to them, and not beyond the prescribed depth (ie. 14 feet below mean sea level): a considerably smaller field of local options.  I can't think of any other business sector that is rewarded for breaking the rules so shamelessly and the CIG's Development and Planning Law protects the offenders!  Only those that have followed the rules should qualify for CIG/NRA patronage with my dollars.

  9. Anonymous says:

    Totally agree with Mr. Parchment in regards of our local quarries can more than supply all the aggregates needed for this project. The local quarries can supply way more than the 750.000 cubic yards needed for this project. Just to name a few, Kp’s, Scott’s, Midland, Paul, Justin, Marc, Carlos and the Jackson’s… The local quarries need this project… Let’s keep the money here for a change!!!! Support our own!!!!!!!!!

    • Anonymous says:

      While I agree that we should keep it local I strongly recommend that they the suppliers are forced to reduce their rates by 50% to 75%. They are one of the reason why the cost of living is so high in Cayman.

      Some of them make millions from a single government job. That is why the Caymanians can't afford to build a house for themselves because they are being raped by some of these greedy folks. Perhaps Bing Thomson should be consulted for a price to provide the aggregrate. I have a strong  feeling that he can supply it for a lot less to the people of this country while making a small profit. Dart may also be able to import aggregate for the government. It is all about the best value for the buck now. The days of making people rich from tax payers are over. Me and my children have to love here and pay the high cost of living. Therefore I have a right to speak out against anyone who I feel is taking advantage of us. I can't imagine what the cost of living will be like in Cayman in the next 20 years when I will be forced to retire.

       

       

  10. Anonymous says:

    Paul, I agree with you in saying "bringing everyone together  and having all quarries participate in such project.

    Take the greedy element out of it! one of these quarry will want the whole cake, thats the way it's been going on here from the time we started developing these Islands….Greed!

    Lets also focus on the 30 od local builders that have been out of work for the past 4 years or more.

    Give them the opportunity to legally tender on the different aspect of the project. No new licenses for carrying on construction should be issued. There are enough  local builders out of work, they  should be  working  on these  projects.

    Trade and business license department is slipping in new companies to hog up these developments when they come in.

    Immigration department is slipping in foreign builders, by allowing local fronters  to apply for work permits for foreign contractors. This has to stop!

    These two department are the enemy of the Caymanian people. They are selling them out, down the road.

    The politicians sit on their ass and let all this all  happen. Destroying the people's chance of opportunities.

    This  never was the case when the older politicians ruled this country. Bring the Bensons, the Truman,the Vassell, the Norman, the Jim and the Haigh back. Our construction business were doing great then.

    • Anonymous says:

      I see a lot of you fronters thumb the revelation down. You play a big part in destroying your own people.

  11. Anonymous says:

    This all sounds good but the reality is 3 to 4 million cubic yards will be required for a 10 mile extention – case and point, the Esterly Tibbetts Highway took 400,000 cubic yards about 12 years ago. Why cant dreamers tell the truth? I challenge these so call experts to refute my comments.

    • Anonymous says:

      Comparing the Esterly Tibbetts Highway to any other road construction project, by way of the fill quantity used is a flawed argument from which to begin.

      The existing elevations that track the path of a new road are surveyed, and the appropriate height above sea level and drainage plan are extrapolated from that data. The transverse and longitudinal design is then considered in tandem with said field data, in the final design of the road.

      The facts you would seek to either confirm or refute your hypothesis, would befound in conducting trial holes, using an excavator. This survey would also be used as part of the road design in determining which areas need de-mucking and fill and which parts could use alternatives like geo textile materials, to reflect cost savings.

      The rock strata on Grand Cayman vary substantially, as does the presence of peat in layers of varying thickness.

      So, the experts have their work cut out for them. Guessing excact fill requirements is somewhat of a dark science.

      My view is that arm chair critics should get the facts when pre-supposing an argument, and try become a part of the solution, not a part of the problem.

      • Anonymous says:

        I am The solution.

        400,000 cubic yards was used on the first two miles of the Esterley Tibbetts, so when these fools open their About 750,000 on ten miles, it's a figment of their imagination, misleading the public.

        Come on bobo lets get real

  12. Anonymous says:

    The thoughts of getting the rocks and other material from Grand Cayman and Cayman Brac sounds OK, but has anyone given thought to the process of chipping away our little islands.    I would say get it from somewhere else not Cayman.  Please stop chipping away our little rock it is small  and fragile enough already.  Please re consider.

  13. Anonymous says:

    They're mining a hella lot of fill from the pond by the new bipass into WB. Anybody know what's going on there? Or is it a surprise. 

    • Anonymous says:

      They've been doing that for decades. The entire 'pond' is an excavation hole. One of a couple in that area. Just now it can be seen easily.

    • Anonymous says:

      20;46

       

      That mining material is for the developer to use on that particular site. He is not allowed to remove it for any other projects.

    • Michel says:

      Some day” the Bottom might drop out. Bob Marley. I am for Progress and many companies to get back to work because it’s needed. I hope Someone though is Monitering the Ecological Side of it too. Remember were on Top of a Marine Montain and of course also very deep ( Cayman Trench ). Just saying …

  14. Anonymous says:

    Wonderful. At least the Brac is contributing something in return for all the money that flows there to pay civil servants to do non jobs.

    • R. U. Kidden says:

      Do you really think Mr. Scott is "contributing" his rock?  Maybe you should look up the definition of "contribute".

    • Anonymous says:

      did i miss something ? who said anything about the brac??

  15. Anonymous says:

    If you bring aggregate from Cayman Brac is that considering importing? Just asking as aggregate is leaving the Brac by the barge load and we are being left with large holes there from the voluminous amounts of aggregate being mined and shipped to Grand Cayman.

    • Anonymous says:

      Ah, you've caught on to our little plan 

      • Buffalo Bill says:

        Well, if they want to blow millions of dollars to help some "friends" build a resort and golf course, we sure wouldn't mind getting a bit of it.

    • Anonymous says:

      Well look at it this way, the Brac is finally contributing to it's own economy.

      You guys got enough Bluff aggregate to supply Grand Cayman with all the fill they need.

    • Anonymous says:

      Given the new administration, presumably the importation of explosives will be carried out legally.

      • C. Brown says:

        I dunno.  The PPM is acting more like the UDP every day! 

        • Anonymous says:

          yeah right…spending millions on travel hotels and casinos at our expense, paying their bag men commissions, spending millions on lawsuits, awarding projects to the highest "bidder", buying votes through churches, and the list goes on…really?

  16. Anonymous says:

    They should dig a hole in the bluff and build a new prison in it. Win win for everyone.