Tibbetts calls on governor & AG to uphold constitution
(CNS): Leader of the People’s Progressive Movement and outgoing Leader of Government Business Kurt Tibbetts has said it is the responsibility of the attorney general and the governor to deal with the apparent disqualification of Mark Scotland and Dwayne Seymour in Bodden Town. He said that before the governor swears in any candidate to the Legislative Assembly it is his responsibility to check they are qualified.
Although Tibbetts did not state that the PPM would not be challenging the result, in a speech to the country on television on Friday evening he indicated that he expected the AG and the governor to deal with the issue and not necessarily the two candidates from his own party — Osbourne Bodden and Charles Clifford — who both came in directly behind Seymour. However, a number of local experts in the field have indicated that the question of qualification must come as a legal challenge from either a candidate or from the district’s electorate. If no challenge is forthcoming, the governor may be obligated to swear in both candidates, despite the fact that the Constitution states they are disqualified.
Tibbetts said that before the elections the attorney general had announced that he would not take any action until it was over. “So we await a public statement from him now that the elections have been held. Furthermore, it is the duty of the governor to ensure that all persons he swears in as members of the Legislative Assembly have been duly elected and have not been disqualified under the provisions of the law or the Constitution. So we await his public statement on this subject. I do not wish to make any further comment at this time except to stress that the governor and the attorney general have no higher responsibility than upholding the law and Constitution.”
However, the only comment that the attorney general made before the elections was that the issue was a matter for the courts to decide. The governor had said that he expects all candidates in the forthcoming general election to operate within the terms of the Constitution and the applicable laws of the Cayman Islands, but also said cases of possible non-compliance with the legal requirements would be a matter for the courts.
Tibbetts also raised the issue of the investigations currently being undertaken by the Elections Office and the police over the accusation of irregularities that took place in George Town, where the United Democratic Party was accused of handing out voting instructions in contravention of the Elections Law.
“There have been serious allegations that UDP agents, supporters and some candidates attempted to unduly influence voters at some George Town polling stations on Election Day. These matters have been reported to the Supervisor of Elections and the police. We understand they are being investigated and that in due course a statement will be made regarding the outcome of those investigations,” he said.
Tibbetts said, however, that the voters had spoken and the PPM respected their decision as that is the democratic process. He told the country that he and the party were disappointed but he said the five candidates who have been returned would proudly carry out their duties as representatives and as the parliamentary opposition.
“As the opposition, our duty will be to question and criticize measures taken by government so that the public can better understand what is going on, and the government can be held to account. But we will do our best to perform our duty in a constructive way,” Tibbetts added.
He also said that the PPM had brought a new culture of governance to Cayman offering open, honest and transparent government and making huge strides in key areas like education and infrastructural development. “We have much of which we can be proud,” he said, adding there were lessons to learn and that members of the PPM would continue the mission to offer the Cayman Islands the right kind of government.
Speaking of the Constitution, Tibbetts said he was delighted that it had received the blessing of voters in the country’s first referendum.
“Cayman will now have a new, modern constitutional framework in which to negotiate the growing number of complex issues with which we are faced in these increasingly difficult times,” Tibbetts added. “The constitutional modernization exercisehas been a protracted and difficult process, but together we have stayed the course, and I believe future generations will thank us all.”
Thanking all those involved in the constitution process, the referendum and the election itself, he also offered his thanks to the civil service for the work they had done during his government’s time in office. Noting that it was not necessarily customary to thank them, he said it was important to acknowledge all the work that civil servants do. “Nothing can be achieved by a government without the civil servants. LA, Cabinet and the governor are the head of the government, but the civil service is the body. I hope the civil servants are proud of what we have achieved together in the last four years,” he concluded.
Category: Election 2009
On the subject of US Visa.
For sake of good order, we already know that a few criminal has found themselves on our shores. (Should I remind you about Ms. Estella Roberts murder), and how I was so afried during the day and night.
Do you know that if you commit a crime in Mo Bay and you go to Kingston for a Police Certificate it would be clean? YES
We have to keep the Cayman Visa thing going and we have to protect all who resides here.
These are some of the things I would like the governement to look into.
I too refuse to sleep in my bathtub to aviod a gun shot(s).
Bodden Towner
So I wonder Little Mac didn’t step down after his defeat in 2005…… Ithink that would have done UDP good too.
Mr. Kurt Tibbetts need step down after defeat on May 21, 2009!
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It would be better now for Mr. Tibbetts to step down as leader of the PPM after be defeated. The mantel should be taken up by Mr. Arden McLean. If the PPM wants to show the true way forward for party politics, then they should call on the general assembly to gather all districts and vote.
Cayman not like Jamaica
The reason I mentioned that we do not want to end up like Jamaica was because:
Back in the 1980s the politicians and some wealthy individuals sucked everything out of Jamaica they could. They stirred the people up against each other for their own (or their parties) advancement and benefits. Corruption was (and probably still is) rampant. In the long run, this has run people into poverty and violence. We do not want this happening to us, so stop your ignorant and blind support of the UPD or PPM to to win a battle! It is the Constitution we are talking about – that should be upheld at all cost, no matter if it backlashes against the UPD or PPM. We don’t want it to backlash against us, do we?
In response to what was posted by Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 05/25/2009 – 21:41.
Finally someone is getting it. That is exactly the point! If the constitution is not going to be upheld now, then it is going to bite all of us in our asses next election around (of even sooner). Don’t cry then when they are allowing "foreigners" to run next time around because why should this part ofthe Constitution be upheld if the other rules seem to be conveniently washed under the table. You all need to think long term. DO NOT SET A PRECENDENCE LIKE THAT. It will come back to haunt all of us.
I agree with Bruce I am sick of being compared to Jamaica,and I also refuse to have bars around my home making me a prisoner in my own home.We cannot let that sort of lifestyle here!!
This election/referendum has set some interesting precedents.
1. Many are saying that the eligibility requirements, set out in the Constitution (old & new) do not need to be enforced as the elected are popular enough. This means that in the next election, all those status holders will be eligible to run for public office, as the restrictions on who can run for office apparently don’t really matter. They will have a whole “New Caymanian” voting bloc behind them.
2. The first and therefore precedent setting referendum, dictates that a 46% (no, it is not 62% as reported by many in the media – do the math 7045/15361) approval by the electorate is sufficient and legally binding on the population.
Interesting times and it has been less than a week…
"The first and therefore precedent setting referendum, dictates that a 46% (no, it is not 62% as reported by many in the media – do the math 7045/15361) approval by the electorate is sufficient and legally binding on the population".
Two corrections:
1. The media correctly reported that the referendum was passed by 62+% of the voters who voted in the referendum. As far as I am aware no one reported that it was 62% of the entire electorate. CNS specifically reported that it was not a majority of the electorate. However, the referendum was therefore passed in accordance with the ReferendumLaw which required a majority of those voting. The Referendum Law does not say that the outcome is legally binding. However, it is fair to say that this is a clear expression of the will of the people as 73% of the electorate participated in the Referendum. Note that in California the Constitution may be amended by a Proposition passed by a bare majority of those voters who actually vote. Therefore is no reason why we should be held hostage by voters who do not exercise their civic responsibility to vote.
2. This referendum does not provide any kind of precedent going forward. Under the new Constitution Referendums will need to be passed by 50% of the entire electorate in order to be binding on the govt. and legislature.
Young voters, I hope your taking notes on how your counrty is being ran. It appears that no one upheld the law’s of these Cayman Islands.
These islands will soon be getting a wake up call, because most of you are still sleeping.
EXPAT
Joe we’re all so proud of you for always taking the high road!
PETITION:
to Sign the Petition See the following link: http://www.gopetition.com/online/28022.html
Petition states:
To His Excellency The Governor:
His Excellency is aware that two successful candidates for election in the District of Bodden Town have acknowledged that they did not fully comply in a timely fashion with the requirements under section 19G of the Constitution. They then later attempted to comply but after the time frame called for. Due to this potential breach the Constitution states that these candidates may not thus qualify to be elected.
Whilst the undersigned have no interest in seeking to disenfranchise the Bodden Town voters, we non the less feel strongly that there is a more important issue at stake in that respect for the law and upholding the provisions of the Constitution is paramount to good order and good governance in these Islands. Without this understanding, any election to establish those who would govern us stands for naught.
Precedence shows us that after the 1972 general elections the situation existed where there was doubt that a candidate elected in Bodden Town was qualified under the constitution. The then Governor refused to swear in the candidate and called on the Attorney General to bring the case to court to determine whether the candidate was constitutionally able tobe elected or not. This was the correct thing to do as it ensured that regardless of the popularity of any political candidate that the rule of law and requirements of the Constitution took precedence.
We the undersigned were heartened by statement made by His Excellency The Governor prior to elections confirming that his expectation was that all candidates in the general elections would operate within the terms of the Constitution and applicable laws of the Cayman Islands. His Excellency added that should there be any cases of possible non-compliance with legal requirements then that would be a matter for the courts. It was correct for HE The Governor to make this statement as his post is charged with, amongst other things, ensuring that Good Governance and Rule of Law prevail in these Islands
Hey stop comparing Cayman and Jamaica- Jamaicans are flocking to Cayman- Caymanians are now bypassing Jamaica and travelling to Bahamas to get a visa why? Jamaica is described as a killing society and has exported criminals arround the world. Jamaicans know this and are grateful to live in Cayman. They know that Politicans destroyed Jamaica in the 1980’s and they have still not recovered. Jamaicans have contributed to the success of the Cayman Islands- all we ask is that they don’t try and turn Cayman into Jamaica. I refuse to sleep in my tbathtub to aviod the gun shots.
Your are an idiot as with many other ost i have read
The only reason why Caymanians bypass Jamaica and go to Bahamas is because of the fact that Caymanian now need visas to enter Jamaica.
It is time you Caymanians get a hold of yourselves and stop disrespecting and discriminating against Jamaicans. As in all countries, there are good and bad people. So we ought not to be subjective in our reasoning, which brings about venomous relationship between Jamaica and Cayman people.
Let us respect each other and the historical ties that we share. Cayman was once a colony and dependent of Jamaica as Jamaica was a Crown Colony aka Administrative Colony in the caribbean that governed both Cayman and Turks and Caicos.
Stop bashing Jamaican. How dare you comment not wanting to be compared to Jamaicans.
Jamaica is one of the most accomodating nations in the caribbean and that has led to their downfall. If Jamaca was protective of itself and harsh to other nationalities, they would have been much better.
Each year Jamiaca is flocked by illegal immigrants from all over such as Haiti, Honduras, Cuba, Etc.
The Jamaicans then treat them like brothers and sisters. The Jamaican labour market isflooded by people from all over the caribbean and they sit quietly.
The Jamaican supermarkets are flooded with goods from other caribbean countries and they buy them. On the other hand they do not take Jamaican products.
Until the Jamaican leaders start to send a harsh message to all other nationalities, Jamiacans will continue to be treated this way.
Jus as Jamaicans are in prisons all over the world, people from all over the world fill Jamaican prisons. and rightly so Jamaica is much larger than Cayman and the Jamaican population worldwide exceed 2 million(excluding Jamaica) so yes, it will appear as if we are the worst.
Please take stock of yourselves, Caymanians and dont look for someone to blame for your internal problems.
Cayman by far cannot be compared to Jamaica. Jamaica built Cayman. I rest my case.
Kurt Tibbetts statement of "..it is the responsibility of the attorney general and the governor to deal with the apparent disqualification…" is classic pass the buck Kurt Tibbetts style decision making.
No wonder the PPM was unsuccessful at forming the government.
As a party of integrity who claims to insist on transparency and the rule of law the PPM Party should challenge the election of Bodden Town candidates Dwayne Seymour and Mark Scotland.
If these two seats were the difference in making a majority for the PPM govt. then i bet the PPM would challenge the outcome.
Does this mean that the PPM only upholds the law when it is expedient for them to do so??
Cayman Gladiator
I couldn’t disagree with you more.
If you do not see what he is attempting to do then you are as blind as a bat.
This is a case for the courts to decide then why not the party bringing action be that of the legal department. If his team brings the motion then it becomes a political issue when in fact it has abso-positively nothing to do with PPM or UDP or Independent.
Ladies and Gentlemen who are fighting this motion this is about everything that we stand for here in the Cayman Islands whether you believe in the new constitution or not. It is about our foundation of law and order. Do we want to become like other locations around the caribbean and the world who go by laws when it works for them? This is the precipice on which we stand right now in these islands. Our foundations of law is at stake.
I am happy to see Mark and Dwayne get in if they did not do this. More than happy but because they did what they did this is a necessary evil so as to speak. It’s necessary to show our due respect for our system of governance.
Again let me state this. It’s not that PPM doesn’t want to challenge it’s that they think it is "truly" the job of the AG and the Governor and much less again I say this they don’t want it to be politicized and that is mostly because of what comes next.
And by the way both parties are playing cards here. You don’t think UDP by making sure their candidates don’t just throw their cards in are not playing the crowd. They want PPM to file the grieviance so they can say "they, PPM are taking away your votes now you tell them how much you dislike this by…….". What comes at the end depeneds on the outcome by the courts.
This is just all cat and mouse routines and you have to just sit back and watch the political pinball and see which way it goes but as for whether it should be challeneged I would say their is no other choice but to challenege as it is our laws at stake.
And on my final note I would say this. I hear Mr. Bush speaking about transparency and good government but when I hear about election wrong doings and ineligible candidates I sit and ask myself where is the transparency gone? Where is the good government when before you even sit you are up to "stuff".
Hey folks,
Whoever is going to mount the challenge, please do so in a timely manner because Wednesday is practically upon us already…………….. PPM has let me down again, so BT voters, BT candidates, the Governor or AG someone please let’s get it done.
Sorry I am not a BT voter.
Well said Joey. You are a bright educated young Caymanian and I expected no less from you. Your time will come my friend let no one discourage you. You have what it takes to be an excellent politician and leader.
Your Friend
The majority of the below postings are the best examples to prove why party politricks is running the Islands further into the ground! Apparently many of you don’t seem to be concerned with what is right or wrong, just who is affiliated with which party and who is going to win! Whewhew! Let’s go outside, party flags swinging, runting and raving, carrying on really ignorant and loud! That’s how the country can advance and we can secure a future for our childen…………..or perhaps we just end up like Jamaica if we continue down this path? Ever thought of it?
You have answered your own question…
The law is the law… if we don’t uphold it we will without a doubt end up like Jamaica.
Looking forward to finding out the date of the by-election.
A Independent Caymanian
What does the writer mean "we will end up like Jamaica"? What has Jamaica ended up like – the land of wood of water, out of many one people and on and on and on.
If it is the crime then we are already there. We will not end upwith millions unemployed as we do not have millions to be unemployed. We already have a bunch of uneducated youngsters and some serious young criminals.
What we do not have that Jamaica has is a much large tourist product and with all the problems that they have and that you and others insinuate that they have their tourism product is as good as ours if not better and they get far far far more tourists per year than we do,
Stop trying to blame others for our problems and come up with some sensible solution to our own problems.
I’m sure the good people of Bodden Town will appreciate the chance to vote again, now that they have woken up, realizing they are being governed by West Bay. It just goes to show what can happen when you try to oust an encumbent and end up splitting the vote in favour of the opposition.
A by-election which is required by law of these Islands will definitely have a totally different outcome. If you don’t beleive me…wait and see!
PPM at it again
Hello – the UDP Cabinet has representation from every district, except East End and North Side.
Even with North Side, Mr. Ezzard Miller has been afforded certain responsibilities.
"I’m sure the good people of Bodden Town will appreciate the chance to vote again, now that they have woken up, realizing they are being governed by West Bay. It just goes to show what can happen when you try to oust an encumbent and end up splitting the vote in favour of the opposition.
A by-election which is required by law of these Islands will definitely have a totally different outcome. If you don’t beleive me…wait and see!"
Well said! UDP may have the majority but BT deservse the chance to pick the candidates they wish the LEGAL way! Maybe MS and DS will get back in but we won’t know until the bi-election. Keeping in mind that all those who voted for AE will now have to opportunity to place those votes to the other two PPM candidates. Also, if the two are disqualified from running again that leads to a whole new development. OB, CC and TP will all have a good change of winning those two seats!
Even after the ship sank on election night Alden Mclaughlin is quoted in the Cayman Compass today (May 25th) as having said "To lose the government in light of the tremendous strides that we have made is difficult to cope with and rationalise," (emphasis added).
Can someone please tell Alden that the circus signs claiming that the PPM made "progress" has been firmly rejected and he should accept that the people don’t eat roads, the 1000’s he left unemployed couldn’t eat his words (or they would be full), and the country is still on the grey list he was hell bent they would be removed from.
So, git Alden! shew – no more PPM!
I am sorry, I do not agree with you.
The people have obviously voted for a change, further delay in government is becoming a huge pain and this may result in an even worse observation of the PPM. Remember, this issue has been known by the public and and has not changed the people’s vote. I believe the only difference will be made if MS and DS become disqualified and even then, will leave a bad taste for the majority of BT voters in regards to the PPM.
If Scotland and Seymour are not contested how is that going to show a good example towards the youth of the Cayman Islands? If they are not going to be contested we’re going to start to hear "Well, if those two can brush off the Constitution why should I have to follow it, they’re human just like me and should be law abiding citizens."
As if we don’t already have enough youth in this country who are serverely either lacking respect for themselves or other people. How can we expect to lead the youth of these islands if we act no better than bickering toddlers!!!!!! Pull up your pants, stand straight and let them know that wrong doers will be punished no matter they’re status in life!
To all those party supporters who wish to think I am affliated with one party or the other…I am not a registered voter, I could not figure out who was the lesser of the two evils. Yes, I am a born Caymanian, not a "paper" Caymanian. How this election was run has been the most disgusting propaganda I have ever seen.
Yes and we were born yesterday. I don’t know who you’re trying to fool but you should start telling the truth and admit you are a PPM, or are you too ashamed to be known to be one?
I think we all know where a lot of the hatred has derived from (party politics) and I assume this is just the beginning of what will continue to transpire betwix people / voters bcoz of party politics. In my humble opinion we need a REALLY GOOD GOVERNMENT so good, that they won’t be contested during the general elections, is this possible?? If this was possible non of the people / voters would be left with hate, hurt, division, anger, resentment, etc. In my conclusion, party politics has surely divided this nation, some politicians are also guilty of causing conflict, I have listened to some speeches from them that made me wanna loudspeaker them back, but a still tongue keeps a wise head. Peace Out !!
Jahleb
Question: Is this the VERY SAME Mark Scotland who brought out an 8 year old police report on Sandra Catron?
Seems to me that if he’s so concerned about people doing the right thing then he needs to step up to the plate and do the right thing. He wants us to condemn Sandra for an accusation that was made against her but does not believe that people should challenge the legality of his eligibility to stand for office?
Sandra was never charged with anything or taken to court; yet Mark had Ellio waving this police report all over the TV.
Double Standards eh? Sounds just like the UDP to me.
I hope the people of Cayman can live with the choices they have made for lawlessness for the 4 years. I for one have options to leave Cayman and may exercise those when things get bad.
I know for a fact many of my fellow Caymanians do not. So dog will eat your supper!!
LOL! Anon our healthy debate has denigrated to uselessness. Your tunnel vision is laughable. I re-read some of your postings and your bias is glaring. You would start off really good and then bam you would drop in some personal attack or snide remark, which as per your deluded mind set claim it to be "factual".. I will not "argue" with someone who has tunnel vision because itserves no purpose.
I was able to categorically state that I voted independents which is FACTUAL but I will credit you that at least you didnt have the face to say you did the same……………………
I reiterate my point in closing: The constitution provides certain remedies for a challenge, ONE of which is the AG just as the AG can bring forth a challenge so too can the BT electors, BT candidates and Ossie and Chuckie. PPM’s press briefing was shallow and political rhetoric and lacked the genuine concern for the interests of the people of these islands. The UDP candidates were wrong and quite slack and should be challenged because we have to uphold the Constitution. The Courts will need to decide this matter and the people of BT should once again get their final say. I am sure the Courts will take into very strong consideration the will of the majority of the people because that can by no means be taken lightly or disregarded.
All said without any snide remarks or personal attacks on anyone.
Firstly let me state, I am a proud PPM BT member and nothing would change that. I understand that the people have spoken, they wanted a change ok. I accept that this is the new government that we have now, and I am prepared to work with them for the benefit of my BT district and the wider Cayman Islands.
We needs to abide by the Constitution.
Possibility, the AG or the Governor should make that call within the next 48 hours whether Mark of Dwyane will be sworn in, this will be interesting . The Constitution is the supreme law of the land and if we are not going to abide by this then what is next, will it be something else in another couple of months that is not with in the laws of the Constitution and we let it go. Please, we do not want our Beloved Isle Cayman to become like some of these other places. Why do you think we have so many nationalities here, because they like what they see.
So we as Caymanians need to ensure that we continue to build and uphold what we KNOW is right and that is the Constitution. We need to unite, and become ONE LOVE, let us stop being like crabs in a basket.
This has nothing to do PPM OR UDP, this has to do with us Caymanians, when the foreigners have gone, we will remain, this is our LAND, THE BEAUTIFUL CAYMAN ISLANDS.
WEST BAY/ GEORGE TOWN/BODDEN TOWN/NORTHSIDE/EAST END/CAYMAN BRAC AND LITTLE CAYMAN – Let’s come together as one, let there be peace among us and let it begin with me.
Ladies & Gentlemen I suggest you say what you have to say now! Because mark my word when "BIG MAC" takes over! They are going to silence CNS!!!!!! And we will no longer be able to speak freely about how we feel about this joke of a new government!
Got a silly question. If there is a bi election, will Mark and Duane still be eligible as candidates, and if they are, and get elected again, will they be subject to another "trial by fire"?
By-Election?!
My Fellow Caymanians,
Can you not see that the "by-election" has already taken place?!
Pay close attention:
Had these issues / allegations against Mark Scotland and Dwayne Seymour come to light after the election I would be all for a by-election or similar action.
However, Bodden Towners went to the polls with FULL KNOWLEDGE of the issues and the possibility that these two individuals may face a challenge in the event of a successful campaign.
In essence – that WAS the "by-election" that was held on May 20th!
If we were to reschedule the Bodden Town vote and carry out this very tedious and EXPENSIVE process once again there would be NO DIFFERENCE in the circumstancial frame of mind of the BT electorate! What would be the point of it all? Furthermore, the dynamics of the designated government would remain the same!
Folks, outside of "election time" our country is facing some very serious challenges – I am hereby referring to the financial industry. What we are up against is NO JOKE this time around. The entities that we are facing are much bigger and yield far greater power than Obama or Brown! We need to apply a common-sense approach to this matter and ensure that we do not further damage ourselves by prolonging this matter – only to end up right back where we started – with MS and DS being voted in by the BT electorate.
Instead of focusing on this futile matter we should be coming together and organising the new inevitable goverment and working together to defend ourselves and to protect our collective future.
Lastly, please do away with the PPM vs. UDP rhetoric – can we not see that this is only causing division and in-fighting between us – so much so that we are forgetting what is of ultimate importance to the Cayman Islands today.
All the best,
whodatis
(* Interesting how every person is now a Constitutional lawyer and calling for righteousness – had MS and DS not won the seats no one would have even batted an eyelid! Even though that too would have been an "unfair / biased / unconstitutional" election.)
You kinow this morning I was reading my Bible as do every morning and I could not beleive the passage for this morning, It was about the Crucification where Pilate said he could not find anything wrong with Jesus therefore he washed his hands in front of the crowd saying that he was innocent of Jesus’s Blood. But wsith all this the Chief Priests and Elders still persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas. Since we are such God Fearing Citizens we should now what happened next.
I said all this to say all this to say this in reading through many, many of the comments the majority of the people are calling for investigation into Joey Ebanks and the repayment of his salary advances from Boatswain Beach inspite of the fact that The Boatswain Beach Board has said that he has done nothing wrong, the Auditor General has said that he has done nothing wrong. Yet you are all crying out for money to be spent on an invesatigation into this matter.
On the other hand you feel that no money should be spent on a Bodden Town Re-election when Mark and Dwayne has broken the constitution. Come on people lets do whats right regardless of the cost just think about the future of our Islands.
God Bless All.
Election office has no application,checklist or due diligenc as to candidates regestering to run ? they take there money give them a receit . we could have a non caymanian or a communist running ? Its there fault .
PPM wants to hide behind the governor again ?DECLARED GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS ?? What about the ones they use second party persons to optain on there behalf "LOCAL INTERNAL FRONTING" . Mark and John John won do not chalenge the will of the people you will start poliical violence and that this country does not need. the elections were well organised and well run with nil incidends or violence Great country congrats to those that were involved . lets move on
Just like Kurt, can’t make a tough decision to save his life…and he wonders what happened at the polls.
Why is Kurt still leader of the PPM?
Sorry Anon,
I am a GT voter and I voted straight independents. I have no use for the party system but your comments were muddying up the pool and clearly biased. So I called you on it. You personally attacked the AG and questioned his integrity because he was granted status………The fact that you do not see anything wrong with that is what led me to believe you were PPM affiliated. I also noticed you didnt stick with the facts of our discussion you just threw your hands up said I was UDP and left it at that.
That’s what’s wrong with party politics followers and no leaders no independent thought ,no intelligent discussion just us against them. We are too small of an island for this mess. But from the clear outcome of the votes it is obvious that party politics is here to stay unfortunately.
A challenge should be made, enough talk about it already. Wednesday is right around the corner so before they are sworn in and start off with this black cloud over their heads (esp Mark as a Minister) we need to get this process going to right the wrong that happend. It was most disappointing to me that PPM ducked out of this as per usual. If they cared about doing what was right vs getting their party in a challenged would have been made. But they realize their party would have no chance of getting in regardless because the numbers are against them so they start with the political posturing and passing the buck. Call a spade a spade please.
It is just as easy for me to say that Mark and Dwayne are wrong and should be challenged. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth that someone who is taking up a ministerial position cannot follow simple rules on their SECOND attempt at running for politics. That is most pathetic!!! However, the people have spoken and it will be most interesting to see if they get to speak again and what the end result would be a second time around!
Let’s promote independent thought and lively DEBATE and not political rhetoric please!
Politicks, my comments are on the mark. As I said before it is completely appropriate to point out conflicts of interest. You see that as a personal attack, I don’t. The status grants issue goes beyond PPM vs. UDP. What is wrong, is wrong regardless. I don’t know what facts that you think I didn’t stick with, and I certainly didn’t muddy any matters but clarified them. I doubt very much that you voted independent otherwise you would be on the same page. So enough of your political rhetoric.
Why isn’t PPM just challenging the BT candidates themselves? Cowards.
My god, you all can’t get it straight. It has nothing to do with UPD or PPM, it has to do with the fact that rules and regulations set out by the constitution has not been followed. It doesn’t matter if they haven’t been followed a little bit or a lot, they haven’t bee followed! What example is this going to set? What message are we sending to our own people and the rest of the world? He, look at us, we have a constitution but we only apply it when it suits! And then you all get insulted when you are called a banana republic! How about next election we don’t have any guidelines and rules. Everyone just run however they want to run. Why bother? If you can’t enforce the constituion now, what makes you think you can enforce it the next time around?
You all need to get passed this PPM vs UDP thing. This is not what this is about!
PPM is always trying to get someone else to do their dirty work. The People of Bodden Town have chosen their candidates, and rather than accept that, the PPM is now all bent out of shape trying to get the AG or Governor to make a challenge that the PPM knows should be made by them.
If the PPM was so interested in upholding the Constitution they would not pass the buck to someone else – they would challenge the two elected candidates in Bodden Town. But no, the PPM wants the benefit of a challenge without taking the risk of the challenge.
What really needs to be challenged is the PPM leadership -that is what let us down and now has every PPM member being the laughing stock of the block.
Upholding the Constitution is now "dirty work"?!
You obviously cannot get the benefit of the challenge without taking the risk of the challenge. Any application by either one would involve taking a risk of being defeated at the polls again.
I say we hold another referendum to decide…:)
All the UDP backers on this board tend to repeat the same thing about PPM being sore losers and their minister should have stepped down blab blah, which is clearly the repeated blabber they are being circulated in the UDP party. They so passionately repeat defensive comments they are being told it’s equivalent to a 4 year old trying to convince me there’s a Santa Claus. It just frabrications of the truth. Whats not a fabrication, the UDP candidates missed a deadline in accordance with the constitution, and still insist they are within their rights even though proven to be in the wrong (in black and white). And to think they will be swearing in to honor the same constituion they are stepping over now for power. The AG said he would deal with in after the election if in fact the candidates in question were voted in. The people of BT who voted for them chose these candidates because nothing was done to prove they would not be able to take office. The BT people were fed up and dying for change one way or another so who could blame those who did give their vote to them. I’ve spoken with a few voters that were leaning to Mr. Scotland in the beginning and asked if they did infact vote for that way. Some replied no they decided to vote otherwise but others said that did and had split their vote, one for UDP (Mark), one for PPM and an independant. I then ask "well why would you vote for UDP if there is the chance they are disqualified", one replied "Well…I know I thought if I should…but I dont know, I just did" and just shrugged, another was similar. I left it there as that was their right. I wonder though, how many people thought the same thing? I’m not PPM affiliated so dont get it twisted. I’m for smart choices, not hear say, what your paster tells you, of cause they are running with so and so. To think this island has to go through this cause they never stated it clear when it was first brought up, I feel it’s an injustice of the BT people to be placed in such a conterversial turn of events. What I found funny is how there were never any laywers that weighed in on this to give a real legal view. Just the new Speaker of the House. Funny how the 2 contraversal areas of the election revolve around not reading and understanding the constitution(current and draft).
We fall to much sometimes for "they say". Don’t stand for what your being told, read and research, someone tells you something ask for sources. Try to have some understanding before you sign your name or mark an X, sometimes the results are permanent, and cant be changed after the deadline.
On another note, thank CNS for allowing us state the different and some not so different views. It’s like therapy:)
"The UDP wants to have it both ways. First, nobody can say Scotland & Seymour (S&S) are disqualified before the elections, that is for the court to say after the elections. Then, after the elections when faced with challenge, you can’t challenge you are sore losers, the people have spoken, doesn’t matter what the court says etc etc."
AMEN!
It’s absolutely disgraceful to listen to all the propaganda, lies, and misrepresentation that have oozed from the UDP camp time and time again. As was done on the "Keeping Them Honest" segment on CNN during the past US election, it would be immensely beneficial if the local media, especially CNS, would provide a similar service during the next election. Moreover, it would be particularly worthwhile if this is done from hence forth; however, knowing the vindictive and dogmatic nature that the UDP administration has been known for, I would venture to say that this would not be readily accepted.
Also, what I find truly amazing is that the majority of UDP supporters that I have observed calling in to the radio talk shows etc all appear to brandish Jamaican accents. This leads me to question, if it were any other nationalities that reside here (e.g. Filipinos, Canadians, etc) being so actively involved and vocal about Cayman politics, would we too be okay with that? Just a thought. The fact remains that everyone has a right to express their opinion(s) but, at the same time, I would venture to say that am quite certain that these very persons would not be so vocal in their country about their own politics and politicians. I say this because the general understanding is that some of these individuals who have so much to say here, don’t even bother to vote in their own country! For the most part, this is largely owing to the undisciplined, tension-filled political climate there.
As a young Caymanian, what I am hoping for is for the minds of local voters not be tainted by the radical fanatics who believe that politics should be marred with belligerence and negativity. And that applies to both parties. It’s often said that the downfall of the leader of the PPM is that he is "weak". This view is mostly associated with his collaborative leadership approach. However, isn’t it ironic that we often seek to mold our children into decent, principled, individuals; but, yet, to know that this very quality can ultimately be misconstrued as "not having a spine"? Barack Obama was lauded by many for demonstrating statesmanship during his campaign…and remains highly respected for this quality to this day. Therefore, it perplexes me how we can uphold such nonsense that lying, trickery, mischievousness, and maliciousness, equates to being a good leader. Interesting, isn’t it?
If we begin a new government with members already breaking the Law of the Land then what is that saying about our newly elected Government.
If the UDP is committed to this country and committed to the voters who gave them their supports such as myself, then I would want this Government to make a clean start with all the issues of unresolved consitutional mishaps or mistakes cleared up.
Therefore, the UDP should permit this process to take it’s course this way we the constituents out here can feel comfortable that the Government we voted to power is on a the cusp of a ‘clean start’ and not one that is left questionable.
Regardless of who initiates this contest, the best man will surely come out the winner.
This is not the time for the UDP to start covering up something that is clearly wrong. Let the Courts decide.
Anon lets not play coy please This statement REEKS of a political affiliation:
"I have little doubt that the Attorney General (who owes his Cabinet irrevocable status grant to the previous UDP Govt. and who will be the chief legal advisor to the new UDP Govt.) will not do so at his own initiative"
To be clear it would be most appropriate for Chuckie or Ossie to challenge the election of Mark and Dwayne, hence my lets get on with it comment. I am ready to move past this issue and get to the real business of this island.
I was most surprised that the people of BT overwhelmingly voted in both candidates when they were aware of the potential issues surrounding these gentlemen which indicates to me they were sending a resounding message i.e. NO TO PPM!!!
My thing is if PPM is so outraged and concerned about upholding the constitution instead of that pathetic press briefing Kurt should have been putting forward the challenge on behalf of Ossie and Chuckie instead of the useless oh let the AG or Gov do it. It is well within their right to challenge the election!!!! LET’S GET ON WITH IT!!!!
You guys are posturing and playing politics, the Constitution should be upheld and it is clear that Dwayne and Mark would be disqualified so I repeat LET’S GET ON WITH IT!!!!
Politicks, because you are clearly UDP you are obsessed with party politics and think that everyone thinks "party". What I have said is valid regardless. Your idea is if you don’t endorse everything the UDP stands for that means you are for the PPM. Well you are mistaken. Truth is I’d rather see a whole new leadership.
It will be interesting to see if the stance of the UDP-nominated Speaker has changed since the election.
The UDP manifesto is on the UDP website http://www.udp.ky
I just tried and experienced errors on the page and unable to print both the summary and the 24 pg manifesto. Hopefully they will have it fixed shortly!
"Slow down Cayman. When you think its finally save, then comes sudden destruction."
I agree with the posting by Islander. It saddens me to see that some people seem to think that PPM and its supporters are sore losers and that’s what this is all about. Our country is at a critical crossroad – we don’t just have internal problems but international "blood hounds" on our tail. In my opinion, it may take only one more major situation to send our economy completely down the drain.
What’s worse, it would appear that a broom under "UDP" would have been voted in just because majority of voters thought PPM is to blame for the current economic situation. (I must add that some who were voted in under UDP I consider intelligent people of integrity and if they were independents, then I would not have hesitated to give them my vote.) But, look around the world – we still were better off than most people in other countries. Jobs were still available for the most part. While it may not be the job or pay that is considered desirable it’s something to do in the meantime. And instead of getting a free fridge or stove – the value of working and buying one’s own fridge or stove far outweighs any handout!
There’s talk now that the new government plans to grant residency to thousands, so it will be very a competitive job market. I hope people are planning to educate themselves instead of bickering about the sore losers.
The new Government, under the leadership of the Honorable McKeeva Bush has no intentions of granting any status, and I know that for an absolute fact. That is simply propaganda originating from the PPM in an effort to persuade voters not to vote UDP in the general election. Any status grants in the future will be a matter for Immigration to deal with and not Cabinet. So please stop the divisiness, it does not help and it did not help you to win the election either.
"The new Government, under the leadership of the Honorable McKeeva Bush has no intentions of granting any status, and I know that for an absolute fact".
You can say whatever you like but it obviously doesn’t bind McKeeva Bush. The other Ministers will merely be his minions unable to challenge anything. What we do understand is that it has to do with granting permanent residence to thousands of work permit holders. In turn they will be able to be naturalized and get Caymanian status in time to vote for the next election 4 years from now and of course (like the status grant recipients in this election) vote to maintain the UDP in power. Unlike the 2005 elections, the opinions of Caymanians will hardly matter come 2013.
Isn’t it better to get a free fridge or stove by someone giving it to you as opposed to going out to steal or sell drugs to get it? That is exactly the position the PPM governance left us in, so don’t go blameing it on the global financial crisis. Look at all those Caymanians that were laid off with Tom Jones and expats kept on. It looks like the PPM administration was more in favour of plans for granting residency to thousands.
West Bayer, you are clearly one of the brain-washed McKeeva followers who thrives on UDP handouts and so lives to keep them in power. People being laid off has nothing to do with the PPM. Were the PPM running the US or the UK. Their unemployed is much higher.
People getting laid off is actually at least partly the fault of the PPM. They refused to step in to help individual Caymanian workers – attempting to rely instead on worthy but failing policies that expected foreign dominated employers to "do the right thing". Caymanians have been laid off at the same time that expats with no better credentials were getting permits renewed. Key employees were granted in such a manner that little care was taken to ensure that Caymanians could continue to work their way up. When big players ignored local laws designed to protect local people, nothing was done. The global economic collapse is not the fault of the PPM – but some of its impact on Caymanians, is.
People getting laid off..
The only people getting laid off and being replaced by foreigners are useless, lazy work for three days of the week or maybe four, if you get a really good one, Caymanians. It’s terrible. I’m a caymanian about to close my businessbecause my caymanian employees are so totally useless and unreliable. I can’t be bothered getting Indians or Filipinos-too much trouble although my fellow employers say they have no problems with them. The good Caymanian employees get good jobs in the private sector, the dreadful ones get them in government where at one time (no more -HALLELUJAH) they couldn’t be fired, and small employers like me get the dregs. And when I say dregs, I mean dregs. Do other countries have these dregs or is it just Cayman because true to Christ they are an effing disgrace to this country.
"The only people getting laid off and being replaced by foreigners are useless, lazy work for three days of the week or maybe four, if you get a really good one, Caymanians"
Oh Snap
I hear some good top soil was given away in Bodden Town. Mark you missed your chance to get some more votes and help some one in your neighbor hood who needed some top soil to fill in there yard .You cross this yard everyday going in and out of Hibiscus road where you live maybe its not too late still this house is not too hard to find keep your eye open and drop some there one day please we would appreciate it very much .
It’s a question of Right versus Wrong.
These men have been elected to uphold the Constitution; how can we the people trust that they will serve with Integrity if they do not submit to a challenge? How can we as Caymanians, argue IF it should be challenged? Of course it should be! And you know it.
We have a new government that have been known in the past to side-step any and all "inconvenient laws". If the current Leader is indeed a different, born-again man; he will prove it. By suggesting Mark & Dwaye are innocent and should not be challenged, are we agreeing the the Constitution is one of those "inconvenient laws"?
The challenge isn’t knowing what is the Right thing to do; the challenge will be DOING it!
Do we have a newly re-vamped, re-organized UDP? Or is it more of the same Wolves in Sheeps clothing….Cayman, we are certainly the sheep. The question we should be asking ourselves is; what type of Shepards do we wish to have?
The electorate of BT has spoken; despite the two UDP candidates declaring thier interest late, the people still wanted them to represent BT. That is what counts and now, let the Grand Court decide what the remedy will be. If I were them, I would not step down either.
The PPM minister who was found guilt of wrong did not step down, so why shuld MS and DS.. The PPM are just sore losers no matter what they say about abiding by the constituion. Did not hear them call for sanctions against Cliffordgate.
Hmm Anon me thinks that you may have a very clear PPM affiliation. The FULL section is as follows:
23 (3) (a) An application to the Grand Court for the determination of any question whether a person has been validly elected as a member of the Assembly may be made by –
Your comments in regards to the AG was most inappropriate and out of line and showed your true intentions………PPM propoganda as per usual.. Your camp must be in shambles right now……………….
Simply put forth the challenge and let’s get on with it!
Politicks, why it that correcting a misstatement about the requirements of the Constitution means that one must have a "clear PPM affiliation"? Is the PPM the only party or group concerned about adherence to the Constitution? I was responding to portion in the article suggesting that the AG had no constitutional basis to make the application and that it must be made by the candidates or a member of the BT electorate. That is clearly incorrect. You are now attempting fudge the issue by suggesting that the other persons so entitled are "more appropriate". Clearly, the new Speaker of the House in her letter of 11th May believed that it was appropriate for the AG to make any application after the elections particularly since she depended on him to do so in the 1972 Elections when it would have benefitted her as the unsuccessful candidate.
What are you arguing exactly that it is (a) appropriate; or (b) inappropriate, for Clifford and Bodden to make the challenge?
My comments in relation to the AG are right on the mark (so to speak) and it is entirely appropriate to point out any respect in which he may have a conflict of interest. That is not a matter of propaganda, PPM or otherwise. Just for the record, I have no "camp" in this.
Why are people quoting sections from the NEW draft constituition which was JUST approved. This document has not been able to run its course as yet with the requistie formalities so would NOT be applicable in this situation.
Please quote the appropriate sections from the existing Constitution!!! Thanks
I don’t understand all this, but I would think that if this is a law, then it should’ve been dealt with just after the deadline had passed and the two candidates did not comply. Why wait until the people of Bodden Town have voted and all is over? A new election for Bodden Town would cause the government thousands of dollars. Even then, UDP still has the power and PPM is still the opposition. Nothing would’ve changed.
I want a UDP manifesto tell me how or where can i get one from .Or they afraid to give them out now.I heard they had made one but i never laid eyes or hands on one this election.
Silly PPM: I don’t think you tried very hard to get an UDP Manifesto. There were hundreds being given out during the general election, they were handed out by people standing on the side of the road, they could be found at the MLA office in West Bay, at the National Headquarters and at the many meetings that were held island wide. Plus its on the web.
Slow down Cayman. When you think its finally save, then comes sudden destruction. As a Caymanian its sad to see how little knowledge my own people have. How short of memory they have, how eaisly they can be bribed. I suggest each and everyone get up to date with current world affairs. You don’t have to look to far either to see where we are heading. Just check out Turks. The situation my fellow Caymanians isn’t isolated to Turks. The paper and human trail are here and our day of judgement is quickly approaching. The elections have ended, the people have spoken and now we wait! Let’s see if the Darts, Red Sails, and the likes will be able to stop England when they step in. It won’t be a PPM, BT or Chuckie thing. It will be a Cayman thing and we’ll all be in the same bucket. So to them I say, enjoy and make good use of this time. The people have spoken. Remember this Cayman. Turks!! And remember we never had that looming over us before!! The love of money, is the root of all evil!! You want someone to get it done, regardless of how they get it done. That alone speaks for itself. The people have spoken!! Sad days ahead for this Island.
You know it really bothers me when people talk about majority and the "people of Bodden Town" have spoken. The fact is that it is neither. Cayman has a unbalanced voting system. I mean think of it, how can you have 3 members from one district with one view win a vote against 4 from another with a different view. Also as an example of unbalanced, let’s say people in BT might not like how the a candidate elected in NS and given a minister post, handles his/her government duties, the people in BT can only hope that NS doesn’t vote that person and their party affiliation in cause chances are they may get the ministry again if re-eleted, they have not control to vote that person out. The fact remains this is not "majority". Majority would imply better when you look on the total numbers as in if all independants or just between the 2 parties (Majority rule is a decision rule that selects one of two alternatives, based on which has more than half the votes) In WB, I would say say yes Majority UDP took, in Bodden Town not quite, when you look at the total number of votes the UDP got just less than a third which means the 2/3 were against UPD. They got the most numbers individually, but not the majority. Just following the path of CNS that decided to give us the breakdown of the true constitution electorate based on who registered and who actually voted. If you want to break it down in parties, PPM got 42% UDP got 31% and IND 27%. The strategy UPD used was to not have a third candidate which would allow the chances of their parties supports to slipt the 3rd vote amongst the independants instead of it being a true battle between the parties. So please stop saying the people of Bodden Town have spoken, say that when the two candidates took more than 50%. So dont sit there and think PPM is challaging this in spite, they might have the backing of the majority of BT, and just maybe majority (also more than half) of the candidates as well who were also affected by this "oversight".
I fully agree with system for a representative elected for a district but to then vote in NS /EE and have my rep have to either join alliances with a party I dont support (PPM/UPD/BBD or ABC:)) or be 1 against multiples to elect amongst themselves? And dont use population as the factor that’s just bogus. I still feel to have a party system and not have one man one vote but have them vote amongst them selves? there is nothing balanced about that.
But that’s my opinion, my other opinion is I WANT any goverment in rule to succeed while in office. I’m Caymanian and my livelyhood relies on their decisions. I SAY GO to all the elected memebers regardless of affiliation think of the Cayman Islands as a whole, and what you want to be there for the generations to come which will also be your desendants….
Kurt tibbets needs to deal with the fact that the PPM did not win all seats that he had expected. He and his crew have carried this country down for the past 4 years. I am not 100% UDP but a mixed between independants and UDP but if this is the way that it goes then UDP it is. I know that Mac and his team will do the country better and try to save money not make us in debt. I have to look out for who is looking out for me. I know that they all say that Mac is only for the money but which person is not? The money that the Cayman Islands owes (where did it go).
I am sorry PPM but just let dead dogs rest. If you continue to pressure the Government then not only will you loose in Bodden Town but you will loose in East End and Cayman Brac.
I know that Mark and Dwayne should of read but who is perfect. Look at what Chuckie and Kurt have done to this little rock that we live on.
What has happened to us are we blind? We need a change a place to call home, a place where our children and grand children can grow old of and be proud to be a Caymanian and call The Cayman Islands their home.
Kurt you are only upset that your team did not win all seats. The story about the two UDp have been going on for quite sometime. I will bet anyone if PPM had won Majority then all of this would of not been a problem.
Kurt i know that you are a big man stop being so childish and congratulate the UDP on victory.
1,3,6,8 A BETTER WAY FORWARD
If Chucky had breached the constitution then he by all means would have been made to step down because the UDP would have been shouting from the housetop regarding the breach. It was a commission of inquiry not a grand court ruling that indicated that he was wrong and it should be noted that the commission of inquiry did not recommend that he be removed from public office, they recommened that the law be amended to reflect a timeframe that civil servant must have resigned before considering running for public office.
You all seems to be missing the point, why have a constituion if it is not going to be upheld. It not a matter of losing the election, I am sure if it was the PPM that had the majority of seats and even if either Mark or Dwayne was elected someone was contest it and they have every right to.. the constitution clearly states it. If they (UDP) was so worried and concerned about the well being of this country they should have made the two step down from the time it was brought to light that they had breached the constitution because they knew that this is what was going to happen if they won unless of course they did not expect them to win hence the reason they continued in the race. They are now going to cost the island added expense to have a bi-election (if the grand court rules for that) yet they campaigned that the country is broke….if the UDP have the country at heart they should just make Mark and John John give up their seats and try again next year or alternative they (UDP) should foot the bill for the bi election if necessary.
The people have spoken, why can’t we just all work together now and focus on getting this country back on track. Forget politics now and start running the big business called the Cayman Islands and lets make it profitable so we as citizens whether born, given, or expat can eat and be merry.
Come on, people, let’s stop the UDP/PPM bickering about who’s better and who’s right and who’s wrong. I was and still am a strong PPM supporter and I, like many others, was disappointed at the outcome on Wednesday. However, what’s done is done, the majority of the people have shown that they wanted a change, so let’s just stop the warfare and get to the business of supporting those in charge of leading our country. It makes no sense to continue calling PPM elected members and their supporters "sore losers", and all the other names. It’s understandable that they would feel the way they do, and if PPM had been returned then UDPers would feel the same way. But it’s time now to raise the white flag on both sides and accept that everything is as it should be, and as God fully intended.
That said, the matter of the ineligibility of MS and DS must be dealt with as called for in the constitution. It is not simply a matter ofsaying "oh, let’s just forget that now" and sweeping it under the carpet; to ignore it will set a dangerous precedent. If the people want them there they will be returned if the Court rules for a by-election, so there is nothing to fear. But what is right is for them to start their term, especially if MS is to be a Minister, with no cloud of impropriety or illegality hanging over their heads, but to start with a clean "bill of health" (no pun intended). If what they have done is wrong and unconstitutional, then the proper avenues must be followed to correct it.
And again, please let’s stop the juvenile bickering and show other Caymanians, the expatriates living on this island (some of whom already have a low opinion of us and the way we behave) and, indeed, the rest of the world, that storms like this only serve to unify us and make us stronger as a people.
There were many that felt M & D should have been disqualified prior to the elections but were told that was impossible under the elections law and they could only be challenged if they got elected. So now that they are elected there are many that still want to see them challenged, nothing has changed. What we have here are two elected officials that have personally benefited significantly from having Government contracts and didn’t tell the electorate this through the sanctioned methods. Was that deliberate or accidental?? This is exactly the reason for this section of the constitution. [BTW, It would have also been nice if they had refused to accept those contracts because, as they said, government was spending too much. But that didn’t happen. Mac can’t even put together proper ministries because too many in his government would lose their bread and butter if they had to give up their government contracts in order to be ministers.]
Fight on PPM and all those that hold our laws as sacred. That is not being a sore loser, it just means that law breakers should not be in charge of making and upholding this country’s laws. Isn’t that what everyone should believe in and fight for? Or is that if the person is popular its ok? And for those that keep using Mr. Clifford’s situation as an example, why didn’t they challenge his continuing as minister to the AG or Governor at that time and take him to court? Oh wait, he didn’t break any laws, that’s why.
The PPM to include Kurt Tibbetts, Charles Clifford and Osbourne Bodden wants the AG and the Governor to do the challenge instead of themselves having been beaten miserably at the polls.
If they PPM want to challenge an "honest mistake" then let them challenge it in court and have a bi-election and we will surely see the PPM get their @%& beat more miserably and terribly than before. That’s what the PPM are afraid of getting, thus the reason they want someone else to do the challenge.
Take you licks like men and lick your wounds PPM, then go to sleep !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"If they PPM want to challenge an "honest mistake" then let them challenge it in court and have a bi-election and we will surely see the PPM get their @%& beat more miserably and terribly than before. That’s what the PPM are afraid of getting, thus the reason they want someone else to do the challenge"
Caymanian to the bone, you have really confused the issue. If Mark & Dwayne are disqualified and the court will order a bye-election, it really does not matter whether it is the unsuccessful candidates or the AG that makes the application the result will the same. Your argument doesn’t make logical sense.
The PPM have also yet to deal with Joey Ebanks and the so-called salary advances that he gave himself every month for amounts just below what the Board would have to approve in addition to lots of Turtle meat given away to supporters. In the meantime checks that were issued by the Turtle Farm were being bounced at the bank. Shame on you! Why don’t the PPM deal with that first and why didn’t they deal with Chuckie’s obvious lies and stealing of government documents? The voters in Bodden Town obviously want UDP so let the candidates be and if you choose to challenge them then YOU and your party will be costing the country lots of money AGAIN!!! Haven’t you all done enough??? Kurt Tibbetts, please put aside your ego and accept that YOU and your party lost. YOU SHOULD INSTEAD CONSIDER RESIGNING AS LEADER!!
I didn’t hear Charles Clifford say anything about challenging the election. It was Osbourne Bodden who said he would challenge it. But this is not about either of those gentlemen….this is about upholding and respecting the ultimate law of the land. If the Governor and the Attorney General fail in their responsibilities as the keepers of our constitution then I will lodge a formal complaint with the FCO against both of them. We will wait to see what will happen next week.
Scotland and Seymour neglected to declare government contracts held by their businesses. Those contracts were only declared AFTER it was pointed out and that declaration occurred AFTER the constitutional deadline for CANDIDACY. These 2 never should have been allowed to run in the first place if their candidacy was in question! But the AG & Election’s Officer just shrugged their shoulders and said "Oh, well… We’ll deal with that if it becomes a problem." Well, it’s become a problem! If anyone should be responsible for this debacle it’s them!
And I don’t understand how so many people are likening this situation to Chuckie being found guilty of taking documents to EXPOSE CORRUPTION !?!? He wasn’t trying to hide anything. He wasn’t denying his actions. He was saying yes, I took those documents because I wanted to show the truth about what was happening!! Was there an inquiry into ANY of the MANY Auditor General reports regarding irregular circumstances in various departments of the previous government?? NO! But there was an inquiry into whether the means of obtaining incriminating information was valid or not. Does this sound ridiculous to anyone else or is it just me??
I feel sad for Cayman who has quickly forgotten the MANY instances of corruption and fraud that occurred before the PPM came into office (and none since I might add) (unless you count "exposing corruption" as an offense – which clearly many of you do)
But I’m confident in the remaining opposition members and also in the sophistication of the press right now. This is a very different Cayman than the oneMcKeeva ran. I look forward to watching him get up to his antics and then try to get away with them. All eyes and ears are on you now MB!
Let’s just try not to forget them next time around OK??
Why don’t you sore losers of the PPM – Poor People Money, Poor Poor Mismanagement for the past 4 years just accept your losses and move on.
I hope and pray that if this goes through, it will only result in your member from Bodden Town not being elected and then you will have something to "cry" about then.
Accept that the people of Bodden Town has spoken and they wanted changed, as there was no progress!!
Pay-back is a bi&%*…
You are correct PPM is Poor People Money because you are probably one of the poor people who benifitted from there money in the past 4 years. How short some people memory can be remember you have already had 4 years of the UDP and you know full well what they did for Bodden Town. I give you Bodden Towners 1 year and your song will be much, much different I wonder who you will run to then to dry your tears, help with that light bill, etc. You people don’t want any progress for the district all you want is self help, hand outs, and individual help you are all about "I". You are all happy now becaause you have your yards filled, you still have some hand out money in your pocket. Just wait till that finishes just wait a few more months old buddy and you will be singing a different tune.
For your information Mr. Eden’s seat is not contested, he did not break any consttution or any Law so get your facts straight before you make yourself look like a fool. Anyway I leave it up to Mark Scotland and Dwayne Seymour to make their concience be their guide. Tell them to remember they have young children coming up and if they want to set a precedent for future elections AS BEING THE FIRST PEOPLE IN THE CAYMAN ISLANDS TO BE LEGISLATORS WHO WON AN ELECTION BY BREAKING THE CONSTITUTION WITH OUT BEING PENALIZED THIS WOULD COME IN THE HISTORY BOOKS ALONG SIDE THE FACT THAT BODDEN TOWN WAS THE FIRST CAPITAL then I say Kudos to them.
I say, let the Court make a ruling on this. DS and MS stay where you are. All this sour grapes lamenting is coming from the poor PPM supporters who don;t know what to do now that they have lost the election. BT has spoken loud and clear despite the candidates declaring their interest late , and the Court will take this into consideration: the MLAs will remain. And so it is.
Mr. Kurt a true stateman!!! The Opposition has a role to play and it is a critical one considering the elements currently facing the Cayman Islands!!
PPM do not make this breach of the constitution be swept under the carpet or be ignored by the Attorney General!! This would be sending the wrong message to the people of these Islands and internationally!!
Fight to the end for your islands all of you this is not about PPM or UDP it is about the people of the Cayman Islands!! God Bless these islands
PPM didn’t have the country at heart 4 years ago…get a grip UDP is in the house, now accept it….SORE LOSERS!!
PPM acting like high school students want revenge…but Charles Clifford wasn’t asked to step down when he was found "GUILTY" by the commission of inquiry.
They will be sorry that they started this "fight" all the others that didn’t declare their government interests will come to light now!!
BETTER WAY FORWARD…UDP
The UDP wants to have it both ways. First, nobody can say Scotland & Seymour (S&S) are disqualified before the elections, that is for the court to say after the elections. Then, after the elections when faced with challenge, you can’t challenge you are sore losers, the people have spoken, doesn’t matter what the court says etc etc.
What disturbs me most is the UDP’s tendency to mislead, distort and misrepresent the facts and generally break the rules. If anyone complains, then that person is demonized.
Examples:
1. The Elections Office and the AG have agreed that candidates S&S are eligible to be elected. Claim denied by both the Elections Office and the AG. Satus: falsehood/misrepresentation.
2. S&S were not the only ones who failed to declare their interests, PPM Ministers also failed but S&S are being singled out because they are the little guys. Status: Misleading/distortion of the facts. Truth: Three PPM candidates failed to update their entries on the Register of Interests on nomination day as required. The Register of Interests Law permits a grace period of 3 months which has not yet expired but within which they did make the declarations. Failure to declare these interests do not disqualify a candidate in any event, unlike the failure to publish interests in govt. contracts under s. 19 of the Constitution at least one month before polling day which does.
3. Ellio Solomon misleads the public as to his academic qualifications. This is exposed by Sandra Catron who is vilified as a result. Even though it is self-evident from the transcipt of the exchange UDP denies that Ellio misled the public and in order to distract attention Scotland launches a venomous attack against Catron although she hasn’t attacked him and he is deemed a hero.
4. There are direct witnesses of GT UDP candidate handing out printed slips to voters on election within the precincts of the polling station in breach of the Elections Law. UDP declares that those who complain are evil and trying to disqualify the UDP candidates who they cannot beat at the ballot box.
This all has a familiar ring to it. Clifford is vilified because he exposes wrongdoing at the Turtle Farm. Suddenly the original wrongdoing is forgotten and Clifford’s is condemned for exposing the wrongdoing.
Truth becomes falsehood, and lie becomes truth. Right becomes wrong, and wrong becomes right. Evil becomes good and good becomes evil. Are we in the twilight zone? Soviet Russia? This gives us real insight into the type of governance we expect from the UDP.
It’s truly hypocritical of the PPM and its few supporters to call on the BT MLAs to step down, when in fact they did not do the same thing for the PPM minister when he was found guilty of stealing government documents and blatantly lying. Just goes to show how the PPM thinks its better than everyone else. Well, the people have spoken and its against the PPM. Enough was enough, the country could not tolerate the PPM for another moment more. The UDP surely has its hands full, what with all the mess that the country is in , both as a result of poor PPM internal management and the other exterior global factors which are beyond their control. But if anyone can do it , it is Mr. Bush. During the many weeks of campaigning, he used the negative energy of the PPM and its supporters to energize himself and he will do the same thing now. He will take their negative energy and replenish himself once again. So to all who continue to criticize, please, do/nt stop now. The Mac truly appreciates it.
Get a grip. The issue with Minister Clifford was concerning internal Civil Service proceedures. There was no "guilt" finding. It was not a court of law. It was an enquiry which resulted in a ruling that he maybe should have not taken his copies of the minutes and used them. The only instructions given were to tighten up Civil Service regulations.
This issue concerns the existing constitution. If we as a people only require the officials to uphold parts of this document, where will our country end up in 10/20/30 years time. The same applies to the Election Law – if it is not adhered to why have it. Will you persons who say that this matter should be left to slide like the results then?
You could have not saying it any better, PPM needs to work together and hold on for what is right, as well as UDP. Now lets sit back and wait and see what the Governor and the Attorney General decides
Charles Clifford mounting a challenge on the basis of a legal irregularity- now, what’s that old saw about pots, kettles and blackening?
How did Charles Clifford get into this? Osbourne Bodden stated that it would be challenged. Knal and others looking for an easy target to beat up on.
Charles mounting…..
But Knal, don’t you remember that whole Chuckie Commission of Enquiry was, according to Clifford and his PPM cronies, (including, sadly Duckworth, a bona fide lawyer who’s lost it) a"kangaroo court"?I seem to remember a memorable post/picture of yours on Marl Road.Com (sigh) which showed a real kangaroo court. Clifford and his cronies, both political and the civil servants and his appointed board chairmen (Jahwohl, Mein Fuhrer) came out of it all rather pathetically diminished. It was the beginning of the end. Mac done him in brilliantly-and typically, like Watergate, it wasn’t what Chuckie did that soured people, it was his and the PPM’s stupid ("we welcome this enquiry so that blah blah/ this enquiry is unconstitutional blah blah/ it should be looking at Mckeeva Bush blah blah) approach to it all that sealed Clifford’s fate from then.
Sore losers
If one has read the constitution one will see that a challenge can only originate from the electorate or the candidates themselves. This is a matter strictly for the court and NOT for the AG. The people of BT should completely turn their backs on the PPM if they try to undo what the people of BT have done and that is: they voted UDP!!!.
PPM let it go – the UDP is in the house!!! Why did’nt the PPM minister step down when he was found guilty of wrong doing by the commission of inquiry? Well, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Congrats to MS and DS.
"If one has read the constitution one will see that a challenge can only originate from the electorate or the candidates themselves. This is a matter strictly for the court and NOT for the AG".
It is pretty clear that YOU have not read the Constitution. That is obviously false. See section 23(3).
The PPM and its supporters remind me of Russ Limbaugh a Republican, who said that he wished President Obama would fail. That’s exactly how the PPM feels, not realizing that if the UDP fails so does the country. What hatred they have for McKeeva Bush, it must truly be driving them insane and keeping them up nights. Get some rest BoBo, the Mac is in the house looking out for your best interest as well.
The PPM spent its entire four years talking about the UDP and failing to get anything done, now they’ll spend another four doing the same thing. You can bet the UDP won’t become obsessed by the PPM.
The United Democratic Party (UDP) is FOR ALL THE PEOPLE and A BETTER WAY FORWARD.
Unfortunately, the PPM Government was so hell bent on destroying the Honorable William McKeeva Bush that they and to quote Alden own words from todays compass"the country spoke out loud and clearly…. for one reason or the other we lost the support and confidence of the majority "
The country is in a serious mess and you can rest assured that the new Government under the leadership of the Honourable McKeeva Bush will work tiredlessy to get us thru.
God Bless
&IDQUO
Very good post. I am a Bodden Towner who voted for Mark, knowing of the possible problem. Whatever it takes to resolve the problem needs to be done-Court/Bye election whatever. Let’s stop griping about what it would cost-we waste money on free flights for civil servants and others sucking on the Cayman Airways tit plus many other things. This is important. Mark and Seymour were careless; Jim Bodden lied. He ended up a National Hero (although that will be questioned by the history books many years from now when archives are free for public scrutiny.) If we need to vote again bring it on. I wont be voting for Mr Seymour but Mark definitely.
But Mark, you need to figure out how to deal with Ezzard when you’re Minister and he’s -er, well- the other Minister (though without Portfolio)
I think it is inevitable that this will end up in Court one way or another… my concern is that we the public should not end up footing the bill for it.
It seems to me that the AG needs to send a letter before action to Scotland and Seymour to: (a) formally tell them that they are not eligible; (b) ask them to stand down; and (c) tell them that if they refuse to do so and they end up losing the Court battle (which they more than likely wi, the AG will seek an order that they personally have to pay all of the costs of proceedings. They screwed up, they should pay for it. Simple as that.
Despite knowing that he was guilty of wrong doing – did the PPM minister pay the half million dollars that it took tax payers to pay for the legal proceedings that found him guilty? He didn’t even step down and that would have been the right thing to do. Let’s not have two standards now.
He still has not publicly congratulated the new Government! Makes me wonder how cooperative they will be on working together to build a better Cayman. Editorial in the Caymanian Compass on Friday was spot on! Tme for Unity!
This is exactly the kind of double speak and lack of action that this "Leader" is known for.
A challenge has to be made first and foremost———- no challenge-no issue!!!!!
Then he/the party is going to complain how the Governor is so corrupt and biased yadda yadda –
I hope over the next four years as the Opposition Kurt will take the time to LEARN to make a decision and stand by it and that means taking the appropriate ACTION to get the job done. Enough already of the excuses and passing the buck……………gosh-pathetic!!!!