Met officer’s lover reveals all

| 24/10/2009

(CNS): The Special Police Investigation Team is back in the British tabloids, this time with tales of a tawdry affair, naked pool parties, deception and binge drinking. The UK’s Daily Mail reveals that the cover of one member of SPIT, sent to the Cayman Islands to investigate allegations of corruption in theRCIPS and dubbed the “Sunshine Squad” by the Mail, was blown after he was thrown fully-clothed into water at a pool party hosted by his American mistress, Julie Karner. A friend of Karner’s told the tabloid the affairwas no secret. Photo: Simon Ashwin, of SPIT

The Mail said Karner, 51, had an intimate photograph which illustrates the depth of her five-month relationship with Simon Ashwin, a 45-year-old detective inspector attached to Scotland Yard’s elite Directorate of Professional Standards.

Following last week’s revelations and a series of photographs showing the SPIT team living it up or asleep on the job, the Mail published an article today (Saturday 24 October) in which Karner, who told the Daily Mail she did not know Ashwin was married and thought he was a property developer called Simon Phelan, says she discovered his real identity after he was thrown fully-clothed into a pool during a party hosted by Karner and her friend Michele Nauss. After examining his sodden wallet, she found his police badge and discovered his real name, the Mail says.

Karner told the Mail, “It was a nude pool party, just a bit of fun. Simon wasn’t going to come, but then at 10pm he finally texted to say he would if I picked him up, so I drove to his apartment and collected him in my BMW.” She went on, “When we got to the party, it had got quite rowdy and all of a sudden people started throwing each other in the pool, including Simon. When he got out, he gave me his belongings to keep safe so I took them to my room and had a good look at them. There was his police badge with his real name on.” (Right: A photo of Julie Karner published by the Daily Mail)

Karner, until recently head of human resources of the islands’ National Roads Authority, described to the Mail how she met “Simon Phelan” at the Royal Palms beach bar in January last year and slept with him the next night.

In the article she describes strange details of the affair: “Simon would always say, ‘If you see me in a bar, don’t come up to me – wait till I come to you.’ So stupidly I used to wait until 2am when Simon would finally send me a text saying he was ready for me.”

Karner also claims that the UK officer was a heavy drinker: “Often, I had already gone home and had to come and pick him up in the car. I would usually find him completely drunk, staggering down the street, and I would take him home for the night. He made me jump through hoops for him. One night, after he had moved to an apartment, he kept begging me to come to him. I drove over to find he was so drunk he couldn’t answer his door. I could hear his phone ringing inside but he must have passed out.”

She told the Mail she asked him his true identity: “He said he couldn’t tell me because he was part of a special team and it was all secret. He told me I couldn’t talk to anyone about him. We would sleep together a couple of nights a week, but then a whole week would go by when he would keep saying he was busy with his secret stuff, and now I know that was when his wife and kids were here visiting him.”

Karner says in the Mail she reported her relationship with Ashwin to the lead investigator of SPIT, Martin Bridger. She said, “He told me he was really angry because he said it takes a lot of time and money to fabricate a false identity for a police officer.”

However, Michele Nauss, 41, who lives with Julie Karner, said in the article, “Simon and some of the other policemen were getting drunk every night. Simon would always start the evening keeping his distance from Julie, but by the end he would be half draped across her. It wasn’t much of a secret.”

After Ashwin returned to the UK, Karner says she learned that he had a wife, Laura, and three children in Surrey. She managed to discover Mrs Ashwin’s e-mail address and sent her a message, which read: “We have something in common … I met your husband Simon inCayman and we spent some very intimate time together. Please believe me when I say that if I had known he was married it would not have happened. This is my attempt to right the wrong. Isn’t it ironic that a cop who was sent here to investigate corrupt police has to be so deceitful?”

She told the Mail, “He was supposed to be exposing crooked policemen and instead he was the most deceptive one of all. When Simon left in July 2008, he called me and said, ‘I’m leaving tomorrow and I’m really busy so I won’t be able to see you, but take care of yourself.’ And that was that.”

The Mail reports that, in a statement on the Ashwin affair yesterday, the Metropolitan Police said: “We do not believe that the officer’s behaviour had a specific impact on the overall investigation but we recognise that it was inappropriate and did not uphold the high standards we expect of officers.”

The members of SPIT, including Ashwin, were all RCIPS special constables.

 Read the full Daily Mail article

Category: Headline News

About the Author ()

Comments (60)

Trackback URL | Comments RSS Feed

  1. Anonymous says:

    Oh geez…. the comments on this story have gone from funny to down right ridiculous…  Does anyone, anywhere actually care??  Look around, who isnt, who hasnt or who wont have an affair….. Unfortunetly this is not a rare occurance!!! 

    Give it a rest people …. it should be about the Met Investigation not who they were sleeping with.

  2. Anonymous says:

    It amazes me how every story on here is twisted into the old Caymanian vs Expat. Please note the nationality of the person who first added the fuel to this fire.

    You are like a broken record. If you don’t have anything constructive to say then keep your mouth shut.

    Everyone is tired and bored of hearing about how  the poor, deserving, Caymanians are mistreated and the big bad Foreigners are taking your women, taking your jobs, spending your money and taking your island. Grow up.

     

    • kd says:

       

      I agree that it isn’t necessary for a Caymanian v. Expatriate verbal boxing match to occur in relation to this article. Personally, I’m glad that Ms. K was American & not Caymanian because then she would be bashed because of it – evidenced by previous comments on here saying that it was his attempt to "fit in with the locals". Yetch. I know of a few women who now hate Caymanian women (regardless of the irrationality of it) because their men shacked up with them whilst here. Honestly, to a certain extent I can’t blame them… cheating is inexcusable no matter if it was a one night stand, 3 year affair, or even a cyber tête à tête amoureux. Perhaps now "the wife" in this scenario is cursing American women… who knows?

       

  3. Anonymous says:

    naked pool parties!!!…   where do i sign up…LOL

  4. Anonymous says:

    God Bless Miss K.  I think she and I would be great friends.  Many smart women get fooled – but not many take action.  And not many take international and political and public devastating action.

    • Anonymous says:

      Obviously this woman contacted the wife and Bridger, and now the tabloids to exact her revenge.

      Not that I have any sympathy for any in the bunch. 

      Her only saving grace is that she further exposed the very unsavory and inept side of Tempura. The more exposure of the horrors of this story the better.

      By the way, I think the wild chickens and the iguanas would make a great airport send off.  What a pix for the tabloids.

      Hands down, I am sure that Jack qualifies as the worst of the worst.   As I said before, however, "the higher monkey climbs, the more he expose."

      • Anonymous says:

        Saving grace – B I N G O!  Finally, someone gets it right!  J

  5. Anonymous says:

    as a FYI the Daily Mail is not a tabloid, it is a newspaper….

    • Anonymous says:

      FYI It is a tabloid and has been since 2004 so stop being pedantic

      Idiot

      • Anon says:

        FYI the Daily Mail is a tabloid – and as such, just as the other tabloids The Sun and News of the World, nobody in the UK takes anything they say too seriously.

        • Anonymous says:

          What they say is one thing, but a picture is worth a thousand words. lol.

        • John Evans says:

          Don’t you believe it.

          I have seen the reaction to these stories amongst middle class folks back here – they are the sort of people who wouldn’t have the Sun or the Mirror in their house but they accept the Mail’s story for what it is – the truth.

          The Mail bridges the gap between true ‘tabloid’ journalism and the ‘heavies’, as such it is a trusted source of information amongst a very large, broad-based and influential readership in the UK.

          The Mail has already succeeded in toppling two senior members of the Met by publishing material that they would rather not have seen made public – I’d say that’s a pretty impressive track record.

          • Anonymous says:

            It is my understanding that the officer(s) involved have launched a libel action seeking unlimited damages for defamation over claims made in the article.

      • John Evans says:

        Could we settle on – ‘a newspaper published in tabloid format’? As it was when I did freelance work for them some 20 years ago and has been for nearly 40 years now?

  6. Anonymous says:

    It seems to me that Simon Ashwin would have done well to read the Christian bible, especially the part that refers to "hell has no fury like that of a woman scorned".  Me thinks he has fallen under such wrath.

    While I do not condone either Simon Ashwin’s or Julie Karner’s behavior I find it incredibly fascinating to read the comments being posted on here about this story. One thing that abounds in this country is the ability of many to be hypocrites. Everyone knows that adultrous affairs are as common place here as the sandy beaches are and so they would have had lots of company to carry on!

    Neither of these two people were victims – they both chose to engage as they did – and so have many of you.

    • Anonymous says:

      Exactly! Five months worth of fury! I just hope Mr. Ashwin gets the intimate photo of him. This would be scary to not do so.

    • Anonymous says:

      That was the bible was it?

       

      William Congreve, in The mourning bride, 1697:

      "Nor Hell a Fury, like a Woman scorn’d."

      • Anonymous says:

        Oops, thanks for correcting my error. Guess that proves I’m not a very good Christian but nevertheless I hope my point was made! 🙂

  7. Anonymous says:

    Did we pick up the tab for the dry cleaning the cloths after he was thrown in the pool?

  8. Anonymous says:

    I think it is fair to ask the UK government to refund us all expenses paid for Ashwin as he did not provide any value for money we spent for him.  I am sure the Governor knew why he was sent back home.  It is a down right shame that the UDP think that we cannot recover our money by suing FCO, UK Govt., Yard and the Governor.  UDP failed us even before the fight started.  Mr.Miller was right in bringing a motion to recover our hard earned money.

    Today all the women who enjoyed night outs with these Met team cops are selling their juicy stories to the UK newspapers and making huge sums of money.  We poor Caymanians are left high and dry on this little rock.

  9. Anonymous says:

    I wonder how much of this the Governor knew and said nothing. It’ s time that he, Captain underpants and Bridger make a public apology to the people of the Cayman Islands. If this situation wasn’t so serious it would be laughable but they have ruined the reputation of these islands while spending the hard earned tax dollars of its people to do it.

    This Governor is the worst we have ever had and he needs to go quickly. He is very lucky that we are a peace loving people. In most countries, by now he would have had to leave on a plane in the middle of the night. 

    His date of departure is stil not known to the public and who knows it may never be but if and when we do find out, I believe that all employers should give their employees time off to go out to the airport to express their dissatisfaction in a peaceful protest. 

    I know that many have promised to bring green iguanas and wild chickens to give to the governor as a symbol of us trying to get rid of the vermin that entered our country and overhwelmed us. This is a good idea and would send a good message to him and the international community that we are tired of these English colonialists who come here eat, drink and party on our dollar and then do all they can to destroy our financial industry, our judiciary and police, not to mention the good reputaion of these islands and the people who call them home.

    The Governor is disgraceful and so are these despicable criminals he let loose on us. Thank God he will be gone soon! 

    • John Evans says:

      For the record….

      On 12 December last year I filed a complaint about the conduct of Operation Tempura with John Yates at New Scotland Yard, then copied it to the Governor’s office on 15 December 2008. He has never even had the courtsey to acknowledge it.

      My complaint concluded, "I am going to close this already lengthy letter but reflecting my total disgust at the way I have been treated by the MPS – if this is how you conduct the fight against crime then it raises some very serious questions about both the abilities and the integrity of the UK’s ‘premier’ police force."

      In answer to, "I wonder how much of this the Governor knew and said nothing." above. Unless he’s in total denial, I fail to see how Stuart Jack can now argue that there have not been serious problems with Operations Tempura and Cealt right from the start. I just hope the Daily Mail’s revelations served as a wake up call.

  10. Anonymous says:

    Lets donot differentiate Caymanians and Expats here.  Caymanians and Expats both can be nice people but again can be worst poeple.  Look Joey also partied on public money who is a Caymanian and a leader / MLA.  There are lot of other worst Caymanian. Same time, good Caymanians are also around – same as good expats.  Cayman’s growth has prosper have both’s contribution.  

    By the way, what is this drinking culture here in Cayman.  all those adultery, killings, burglary are somehow related to drinking and all those bars.

  11. Anonymous says:

    In response to this comment…Submitted by Anonymouse (not verified) on Sat, 10/24/2009 – 17:46.

    Yes I am referring to the position that Julie Karner held at NRA that a CAYMANIAN COULD HAVE FILLED …and not Ms. Karner’s choice to be an English cop’s mistress!! Yucks…Trust you can understand!!  

    We don’t need work permit holders here…we have educated Caymanians to fill these positions and in the end the Caymanians still have to train the work permit holders…this is what some of them typically will say "well this is how it is done in England" – and we have to remind them "you are not in England you are in Cayman and this is the way it is done here"!  

     

    • Anonymous says:

      But she is American?

    • Pommie B says:

      It’s the sort of stupid comment, such as this, which infuriates people both Native and Expat.

      Just examine what you have said, if this is the case then please explain how, for example, you would provide healthcare for Caymanians if you kicked out all the expats who work for the HSA on work permits, because to the best of my knowledge, there are very few Doctors and Nurses (let alone all the other medical specialities) who are native Caymanians.

      Engage your brain before your mouth!  

    • EZBreeZee says:

      So let me get this straight; all of the jobs currently being held by work permit holders, can be done by Caymanians… is that what you are saying?

      If every man, woman and child that is full blood Caymanian were to cover these jobs (qualified or not), there would still be a excess of positions to fill.  I shall not print what I truly think of your clueless tirade above, but I will say that I feel sorry for you in your ignorant and intolerant attitude.  I am CAYMANIAN and yes im proud to say so, most of the time, but people like you that are ignorant of the world around you, leave me hanging my head in shame. 

      I do agree that there are ex-pats that point the finger of superiority and say that it is done this way back home, and it is right.  But simply show some tolerance to the person and camly explain that what works in their country, may not work in ours, and move on.  There is no need for conflict amongst us. 

      We all know that Operation Tempura was………. not a very well thought out plan, and that we got the short end of the stick where the officers were concerned, but if our own police officers had Cayman’s best interest a heart (TRULY) then there would have been no need for all of this int he first place…..

  12. Anonymous says:

    Well what more do you all want ……….. come on now…. let’s sue. I want my money back !!  We always hear why we need foreigners because they are qualified ! Yeah right, qualified to paarrty!  

  13. what a mess! says:

    The Govt. is worse than the private sector with hiring expats for jobs that caymanians can do. At least the private sector pays a work permit fee to add to govt’s revenues, unlike Govt. To add insult to injury, many times the caymanian colleagues then have to train the expat to do the job…and who to call or where to go…to get things done.

    Come on Govt. there’s a good place to start to reduce your expenditures/overhead!…and reward deserving caymanians.

  14. Anonymous says:

    Maybe Syed was undercover also?

    • Anonymous says:

      Syed always indicated he was undercover. It may explain why he was never pursued seriously.

  15. anonymous says:

    THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE SAYING ON THE MAIL WEBSITE…..

    And these are supposed to be the best of the best.
    – james, yeovil uk, 24/10/2009 10:14

    Cant believe the ineptitude – sent undercover but keeps his real identity in his wallet. Has he never seen “The Eagle has Landed” where they made the Germans wear their real uniforms under their fake allied ones, and their cover was blown when one of them rescued a little boy from the mill?
    – Nigel Humphries, Redditch UK, 24/10/2009 10:12

    She tracked down the man’s wife by email – how is that righting a wrong??? Also, she tattled to his boss??? Yikes. She sounds like a bunny boiler!
    – amy, texas, usa, 24/10/2009 5:22

    Amy – totally agree – if the odd hours he called her, the fact he didn’t want her approaching him in a bar didn’t set off alarm bells – nothing would. And why wait 1 year to email him – that shows still bitter and twisted. The wife must have known something was wrong the fact her husband was sent back to the UK – why cause pain for someone else.
    – Joanne, Watford, 24/10/2009 10:09

    His punishment was a transfer? He should have lost his job.
    – Pammy-Sue, Edinburgh, 24/10/2009 09:54

    John , Javea , Spain. Afraid you are wrong on that one. Police are the same as MPs when thiis sort of “wrong doing ” goes on. If he was sacked he would go with an enormous pension, but of course he won’t be sacked.
    – owldshep, UpNorth England, 24/10/2009 09:35

    Shouldnt be allowed out without an adult.
    – AnnL, Falmouth Cornwall, 24/10/2009 09:26

  16. Anonymous says:

    Wow! Interesting! Did Ms. K have to send the wife an email? I’m not excusing what the man did, but, two wrongs don’t make a right. Yet, this could have caused a serious domestic issue between the husband and wife.

    Based on the information above, I could see that this was a fling. Obviously this man was not looking for something serious. A guy once told me, women give too much too soon, and guys will only do what you let them do.

     

     

    • kd says:

       I do hope a "serious domestic issue" occurred.. namely, I hope his wife took a frying pan to his head & a sewing needle to his nether region. 

      As for the whole email thing… ehh…. it’s a tough decision. Ms. K probably felt that the wife would find out anyway due to the media coverage, & perhaps sending a personal apology would help ease the wife’s pain. Who knows? However, to include the text of the email in the story is a bit sketchy. Could have left it with an "I sent her an apologetic email." Notice that it wasn’t mentioned whether the wife responded or not. On another note, at 51 years old Ms. K should know by now that trusting a man you first met is not wise, yet alone a man you met in a bar.  She put herself at that risk by the speed in which their fling began, so, yes, perhaps she wouldn’t have gotten involved with him if she had know he was married, but she didn’t really give herself the time to find out.

       P.S. Wow…. did you have to let everyone know that you slept together within one day of meeting? Keep that to yourself, man.. "a short time later" would have served to help your image justa smidgen. 

  17. noname says:

    I thought..girls..girls…what have you gotten yourselves into!!

    Imagine all the taxpayers money going toward these guys and

    the personal embarassment to all the families envolved.

    This scandal will be read by the whole world.

    Karner is American.  Nauss is Canadian and not living in

    GC presently.

    I can imagine this sort of thing goes on all the time here.

  18. Anonymous says:

    do we have to make every article into a Caymanian entitlement story?  Is it so bad to rise and fall on your own merits instead of getting where you are as a birthright? 

    What isgoing to happen to this entitlement generation you have raised if the situation changes in the future and handouts are no longer given?  Teach people how to succeed, don’t give the success to them.

     

    • tuff love says:

      For too many it is too late. For the new generation of young Caymanians hopefully they can see what the entitlement generation has done to their island and their reputations as Caymanians.  Succesfull people are those who have learned how to suceed.  Even though The Goverment is still useing public money more and more to give away it is already money that has not even been earned yet and can only be done for a short time more.

      Everyone will soon see just what payment is due and unfortunatey The ones responsible and the undeserving will not be doing the paying.  That will fall on the shoulders of the next Generation.  If that does’nt teach you responsibility nothing will.  Courage and hope.

      Sorry to keep beating the horse but its not dead yet.

  19. Very Proud Caymanian says:

    Can I ask what CNS is trying to obtain by displaying such articles on their main web page instead of under the international news?

    Seriously, what does Simon Ashwin cheating on his wife have to do with Cayman being updated on issues that affect the residents directly? Isn’t this just another episode of gossip?

    Please leave the gossip and made up news to the newpapers.

    Keep the true issues up to date and keep up the great job of reporting the "real news", don’t fall into the gap that other unreliable papers have fallen into like the new Treasure Island Newspaper.

     

  20. Anonymous says:

    Naked pool party? Was Captain Underpants there in his tightie whities??

  21. Jane Puk Puk says:

    Seriously!!! You sure are ignorant….basically your whole focus is on this "American" blonde…give me a break.  SO who cares that this police officer has spent loads of our money, had an affair, is a drunk, suppose to be doing a job BUT you care to focus on the freaking mistress….give me a break. 

    Yes the NRA should not be hiring anyone on a work permit but you don’t know her story.  Furthermore, they might have had a Caymanian in that position who did a crappy a&& job…who knows but the issue here is this "Operation Tempura" craziness….No wonder we can’t find solutions to anything because people like you who lose focus on the correct story…..hope you don’t vacation in the US or God forbid ever need to get a job there…forget about her and focus on the real problem.

  22. Joe Average says:

    Naked pool parties are one thing…maybe living the high life, renting condos, flying first class, having affairs, drinking heavily, expense accounts, and sleeping on the job are another….

    but getting your badge wet???

    that is disgraceful!!!!

  23. Anonymous says:

    Cheating on your wife? shame on him

    But I guess whenin Rome…….

    • Anon says:

      Agree, good undercover work, cheating onyour wife so blending in with the locals

      • Concerned Reader says:

        Surely, this is not limited to locals. What about the partner swapping parties in the 60’s and 70’s in South Sound amongst the foreignors?   

        • Anonymous says:

          I heard a prominant caymanian businessman owns a boat with 5 seater roller coaster and a grill.  Most of the GT based high profiled persons including smart politicians used to be frequent guests on this boat for wild parties out in the sea.  Not sure whether this is still going on. So remember this is a wild place and no wonder how Yadis got distracted and breached their high professional standards. 

          • Anonymous says:

            Cayman has been made a wild place by those who have come here, who then "blame it on Rio".  Often people who come are already experiencing marital difficulties and hope that a fresh start far away from home will sort them out. Instead they bring their problems with them, and surprise surprise they get a divorce and then they say it is something about this place that there are so many divorces…So please stop this nonsense that there is something about the place or the locals.  

      • kd says:

         Let’s be realistic… men of every culture cheat. American, Canadian, Caymanian, French, Trinidadian, Guyanese, Jamaican, Russian, and, obviously in this case English… all around the world it happens… I really don’t think this qualifies as keeping with undercover, but more of a stereotypical, selfish man who thought he could have his fun half a world away & his wife would never find out. 

  24. Anonymous says:

    Boy I tell you, wasn’t life really "Grand" for SPIT while in Cayman ??

    I guess we Caymanins even paid for their families vacation to fly "business class" round trip from/to the UK as well.   

    Ever wonder what the millions were spent on ?? Now you know !!!!

  25. Anonymous says:

    Can we atleast get the money back for the drinks these guys expensed ? 

    And which Law firm does the pool party hostess  work at – or do we really have to ask?

  26. Anonymous says:
  27. Anonymous says:

    At the beginning of the article it says "his american mistress, Julie Karner".  That’s why the government can’t defend caymanians when foreigners are hired for a position that could be filled by a caymanian!

  28. Anonymouse says:

    Her job was to employ the otherwise unemployable people we see standing with shovels under their chins wherever the NRA is working.

    However she may now be able to retire selling her story to the UK tabloids.

  29. Anonymous says:

    I HAVE HEARD IT ALL NOW.   I believe this SUNSHINE Squad should all be locked up and thrown away in a dark cell.  I am so ashamed to be an Englishman today!!

     

    I am truly sorry for the shame these people brought on you over in the Cayman Islands and I do believe you as a country should come forward and challenge our Police Department for the foil smell of rubbish they sent down to your island to do this investigation.   This is half the reason why I read of low morale and crime on the rise.  This team of IDIOTS completely demoralized your Police Department to the point they do not feel nor want to step up to the plate and do any work no longer. 

    SHAME ON YOU GOV for letting this happen to the nice people on the Cayman Islands whom I have met so many over the years on my visits there.  Shame on you Gov.  

    Since we all want to be SO BRITISH on this against those nice Caymanian people, maybe we should go back 300 years where foolishness such as this by officials was met with a hangman’s knot.  I wouuld love to be there to see the Gov and all these special investigators answer the people then.

    NAKED POOL PARTIES? Lord

    • Concerned observer says:

       

      ‘SPIT’ is such an appropriate acronym XXXX

      I appreciate the way this person feels as an Englishman and it is truly unfortunate that many here in Cayman hold such a low view of the English, but it this type of behavior and attitude to fuel our perception and feelings.

      There are many good English people here contributing greatly to our small Cayman society and this must be a real embarrassment to those good people.

      On the other hand there are many here English here that have this same arrogant attitude and I’m sure they feel no sense of shame.

       

    • Anonymous says:

      Hey my friend what happened here has nothing to do with the English people in general.  There are good UK citizens living here.  It is the secret society and vulgarism that are spoiling and destroying the good people living here.  I have seen caymanian gentlemen who were married for 30-40 years leave their loving wives and elope with nanies or barmaids from a certain central american country and far eastern country.  The Caymanian society is being destroyed day by day.  People are moving away from their traditional values and the church.  In this country, Sunday used to be a very quite and peaceful day and most people head to the church with their children.  But now it is so busy and the bars are open at 10.00am.  Instead of going to the church, some local folks just visit bars just to enjoy the beauty of those bar maids and hugs and kixxxx.  Some of those girls get good tips and that’s fine with me.  I have seen how those pretty young barmaids who are mostly poor when they start working here, suddenly start wearing all kinds of jewllery all over their body.  The newly elected government should start a program to rejuvenate its culture and traditions to arrest this situation.  

  30. Anonymous says:

    Is this Karner woman a Caymanian??? If not why would she be holding a position with our NRA that a Caymanian could do? The government’s hiring of foreigners into positions that Caymanians can do is no better or different from the private sector. What a shame.