Sandbar demo wins support
(CNS): Organisers said they were very pleased with the level of support for their demonstration on Monday, when around 400 people signed a petition against the application of a liquor license for a boat bar to sell booze at Stingray City. The idea of a ‘bar at the Sandbar’ has caused considerable disquiet in the community as many people say that the sale of alcohol in the wildlife interaction zone is inappropriate. Natasha Kozaily organised the protest in Heroes Square because she said she felt very strongly about the issue and wanted to make sure the authorities knew that people were opposed to the bar.
Hundreds of people passed through during the two hour demonstration at lunchtime on Monday, 4 December, in front of the Legislative Assembly, and many others drove by honking their support and stopped to sign the petition against the bar.
Bernie Bush had applied for a liquor license at the most recent hearing of the licensing board on 10 December in order to operate a boat that would go out to Stingray City in the North Sound to serve customers with a swim up bar, while they visit one of the Cayman Islands’ most popular and famous attractions. The application was granted.
However, since then there has been considerable mounting opposition to the idea, culminating in Monday’s public demonstration. Kozaily told CNS that she hoped that government would either step in to stop the proposed bar or that the Liquor Licensing Board would reconsider.
“We are hoping that the authorities will see that the people do not support this initiative,” Kozaily said. “We have had a lot of tourists sign the petition today so we are not convinced by the claim that visitors want this facility. We should be protecting our water resources and encouraging eco-tourism, not doing things like this.”
The Department of the Environment noted that, despite the fact that the Sandbar is a protected area as a Wildlife Interaction Zone under the Marine Parks Regulations, the fact that a floating liquor bar was never envisioned when the regulations were drawn up means there is no specific rule prohibiting the proposed facility. DoE Director Gina Ebanks-Petrie said that without regulations her department was unable to prevent the bar from becoming a reality and it would require a policy decision by the ministry to change the existing regulations to include prohibiting the sale of alcohol in the area.
She said the DoE believed the idea of a boat-bar in a wildlife interactive zone, which was established to protect the rays and the habitat, seemed inappropriate. “It is at odds with the ethos of conservation management,” she added. “We would certainly caution against anything that could upset the delicate balance of the zone and it is not the sort of activity one would promote in an area considered in need of special protection.”
Ebanks-Petrie explained that the Sand Bar was adopted as a special wildlife interaction zone because it was perceived as an attraction that needed this special protection for a number of reasons. This was to maintain the integrity of the stingrays’ environment and to protect them and the people using the area, as well as to regulate how the rays are fed and how many tour boats are in the region at a given time. Therefore, she said, it appeared that adding a floating liquor stop to the zone would to be in conflict with the desire to protect the area.
CNS has attempted to contact Bernie Bush, former election candidate and local businessman, regarding the issue to no avail. Attempts to contact the minister with responsibility for the environment, Mark Scotland, about the government’s policy regarding the introduction of a bar at a WIZ were also unsuccessful.
Category: Headline News
I agree! Why are they getting all riled up for? Let’s forget about this…who cares! I don’t care if all those stingrays choke on my conch stew or they open some floating shops to go there too. I just want to party till the sun comes up…watch TV, and stay ignorant of it all. Let Cayman develop itself until it turns into a concrete Island. I’m a lucky gal…coz I’m a caymanian…but do you think i care about my country. no sir i don’t……and when all unna have to start fighting for the environment and natural treasures i have to ask myself ‘now who do they think they is? coming to my island…and caring about it more than me? they should go back to where they came from…we don’t need people like that. we need more people like me’ i can’t wait to eat some cayman style lobster and feed the fish with my leftovers and trash. Because do think I care about putting it in the garbage? Huh, you must be mad!? I fly my Wendy’s bag out my car window all the time!
No sa! Unna try behave nah!! Try stop getting all riled up before unna drop down with high blood pressure or something. Look ya, tomorrow is Friday and ya know wha dat means? It’s happy hour time so all deh talk on dis boat thing ya done now cuz we ready to put on our polyester and go listen to some good country music. Cha!
Ha. You’re right.
That’s enough on that for now. 🙂
Wow! Talk about hostile people here. I’m surprised the Bracker/Caymanian drama didn’t get started in this heated debate. What happened to all of the ignorant folks that are so quick to jump on that band wagon? Bernie is doing the best thing and that is to remain quiet, sit back, relax, concentrate on getting his boat in the water and laugh at all of you fools that are about to burst with dislike.
LMAO, keep laughing, gal. At least the idiots are complimenting you by calling you young and passionate. And if God has relocated your nose since the last time I saw you, he has placed it next to a wonderful piece of art and I’m not talking about your colon either. LOL! Isn’t it good when we can take a uneasy situation and smile about it?
What???
Not hostile. Just wanting to discuss issues rather than call names and other juvenile behavior.
And by discuss, that does not mean calling everyone who does not agree with you an idiot.
As an expat, I’m all for Caymanians making money. I agree that a lot of times locals get screwed over by foreign interests (andby other locals that sell out to the foreign interests).
However, this isn’t about a single Caymanian trying to make some money. It’s about how this might affect the overall view of the island by foreign tourists. If you start putting bars at all of the local attractions, then you are most definitely not trying to attract family tourism. You are trying to attract a party crowd.
If Cayman wants to become a spring-break hotspot for drunk college kids, then by all means put in a bar at stringray city. A better idea though is to attract families that will stay longer on island, spend more money on local products and food, and not destroy the island in a fit of drunken debauchery.
Cayman needs to attract the right kind of tourist to the island. Tourists that stay, spend, and respect the island all at once. That will give many Caymanians the opportunity to make money, not just one bar owner.
Tacky, tasteless and classless. This plan is therefore in keeping with much of Cayman’s recent tourist development. That goose laying the golden eggs is on life support . . .
Hey, I havent heard back from planning yet on my application for a floating church at the same location! Who is going to make sure that this bar is anchored at least 500 feet away from my sanctuary?
Hey – you don’t need planning permission for that – otherwise there would be a planning application for every dunking in Hog Sty Bay and Smith Cove when the churches do their community blessings.
So, I will hail eternally the guy that goes out toStingray City every day with a sign saying CHURCH BOAT so the mobile bar has to stay 500 feet away – what’s good for the goose is good for the gander…
Or what’s good for the Bush is good for the rest of us…
Better still we should support a floating buddhist temple to get Juliana going.
How can I be such a sad Caymanian when I am LMAO at all of you whiners? I am not losing any sleep over Bernie’s vessel but obviously you sound as if you might need to take a couple of Dr. Chase’s nerve food tablets (if you’re not familiar with the brand, this is what Caymanians take so they don’t become so sad). However, since you want to be blunt in your response to my freedom of speech in MY OWN ISLAND, let me have my final say here and you’re free to vent afterwards.
We are sick and tired of people coming to this island and trying to push us around. We are also fed up with the brain-washed Caymanians, whether they are young or old, who doesn’t support their own people. So to all of you that are against Bernie’s boat, calling us idiots & morons, etc., go find something to do with your time. You can’t keep us down, remember that.
By the way, the last time I checked, my nose was still there.
Have a nice day!
The position you are arguing, that if a Caymanian is doing it then it must be right, is silly and immature.
Caymanians are (one might suspect) humans too and are perfectly capable of doing harm (as well as good) to themselves and their home… just like everyone else. If a Caymanian murders another Caymanian (and we have seen a lot of that recently) does that make it RIGHT or OKAY? I think not.
Having an opinion about the future of Cayman is "pushing [you] around"? Caring about the environment, AS WELL AS THE ECONOMY, is not supporting Caymanians? Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
You have a lot of passion. That is good. But you seem young and stupid. Hopefully, time will cure both.
what are you talking about? Bernie Bush is Caymanian, many of the people protesting are Caymanian, many of the names on the petition are Caymanian! how have you made this into an expat versus local issue???
So if a Caymanian wants to protect his/her island from the greedy godless money grabbers amongst them then they are obviously brainwashed by expats? Does the bible not say that the love of money above everything else is the root of all evil. It would appear that you fit the bill rather well. There are somethings that are more important then the almighty dollar, perhaps it would do well if you remembered that from time to time. Protecting your island, its people and its future should come before your greed for more and more money.
Keep laughing imbicile, luckily most Caymanians take this sort of thing very seriously.
Yup, the nose is right there beside the colon – you really do have your head up your a$$!!!
In response to A YOUNG CAYMANIAN, that’s the problem here now, the expats are loving Cayman way too much and that’s why they believe they can moan and protest about every thing they don’t like. At the end of the day they are free to pack their bags and go back to where they came from and what are we left with? Another poor Caymanian that was not allowed to make a living because of their whining.
And to reply to the poster at 19:22 who feels we are morons for supporting Bernie, no one is begging you to come back here. I’m quite sure we would never be able to come to your country and kick up a storm about someone licensing a vessel so don’t bother to fuss up yourself, life goes on here in Cayman.
Wow. I’m not from here but I’ve been here long enough to know the name Bernie Bush. I suspect that his livelihood does NOT depend on parking a booze barge at the sandbar. This is just ANOTHER way for him to make MORE money.
And the question becomes: do YOU really care about the Cayman Islands, enough to help preserve them for present and future generations? Or do you just look at the Cayman Islands as a resource to be exploited for maximum personal gain?
Don’t condemn expats for earning a living and call it "exploitation" when you seem so very willing to sell YOUR birthright for the almighty dollar.
wow, so lets get this straight. You are first having a go at expats because in your words ‘the expats are loving cayman way too much’!! this is truely amazing. You are taking this to a whole new level of idiocy. You are then having a go at a Young Caymanian becuase he/she wants at least some of the island to remain in a vaguley green and natural state for when they grow up and have their own Children.
So lets say that the expats do pack up their bags and go home, you ask ‘what are we left with’. Well the expats and many Caymanians are doing their best to ensure you are left with what remains of this beautiful island and its natural heritage. If you had your way, you would rather be left with absolutely nothing, a barren rock sat in a polluted, toxic sea (but at least no more expats would come and do all the bad things that they do).
You are a sad sad sad Caymanian, thank god there are plenty of young and old Caymanians who want and desire the best for their island. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!!!
?…poor caymanian not allowed to make a living…give me a break. I am sure he gets 50+plus grand a year as the Deputy Director of the Pirates week Festival….rich, just trying to get richer with a lot of time on his hands my fellow caymanian.
The irony to all this is that most of the protestors and negative views on this site are coming from Expats and tourists bemoaning the loss of a natural wonder and the destruction of the Cayman tourist product, while most Caymanians are saying it should go ahead, sod the environment and the island, the guy is making a buck. Good clean Cayman hypocrisy – the Caymanian love of money above all else.
I’m caymanian and i agree with you 100%. i’m ashamed at how some of my fellow caymanians could be in favor of this bar. Not to mention the fact that they are bashing on the expats for loving Cayman more than they do. SAD
I think people are missing the point.This is not about drinking liquor at the sand bar as we all know almost everyone does so anyway. This is about somebody setting up a business there, which creates regulatory issues and sets a precedent. What if 5 other people then want to follow suit? Should we have then 5 or 10 floating bars? How can you allow someone to do it and not others? What keeps anyone from putting in a "floating" bar at West Bay Cemetery Reef Beach or any other place??? It is a slippery sloap…..
This is not about setting up an attraction that will bring more tourists to the Island. Think about what this is to accomplish!
If you protest against the bar, you should protest against and ban all alcohol at the Sandbar. If you think alcohol on private boats at the Sandbar is OK then let Bernie get on with it – anything else would be hypocritical. A lot of people I know are protesting but I know on their own boats they are loaded up to the gunnels with their own booze stash.
Get real people, the Sandbar is already over-exploited and this argument is heading in the wrong direction; it’s being made all about the alcohol and the money etc. What really needs to be considered are the stingrays which make the Sandbar the attraction it is.
I know Bernie and he is a good man but I really think this is not a good idea for many reasons. Aside from the matter of protecting what little we have left, what little we haven’t sold, or built on, or cleared, or tarmac’d, etc. etc I hope to God Bernie has looked into liability. God forbid somebody drowns/has a heart attack at the sandbar after drinking at his bar – you can imagine the lawsuits – Bernie will never recover either emotionally, mentally or financially!
This is not about keeping a Caymanian down, I am a Caymanian, but about wanting the best for our country.
I do not think the bar is a good idea at all. This thing has not been thought through and it could be more a problem than people realize.
I have a feeling that the liquor board was not aware of the full intentions of Mr. Bush’s application. That in itself should be enough for review. This could seriously be very harmful to the other operators who are actually bring their clientel to the sandbar.
All operators have contracts with the cruiselines to carry out a function that is defined in their contract. ie… they have a trip to pick them up in GT, take them to sandbar and return guests back to GT. Simply said that is it! It is not ok to steer those guest to another business who is there for a different kind of operator to benefit and make money off tourists. These guests are in the care of a specific operator or company.
All operators have to carry insurance. Many are with the Land and Sea or maybe privately insured. Regardless they also have resonsibilitys to follow those rules of the insurer besides the cruiseline or guess what…..they are not covered. Most people unfortunately think if you have insurance your ass is covered but it does not work that way if you are negligent in anyway. Most cruiselines or insurers will pick apart a company to cover themselves and guess what they can because they are bigger than small operators.
I am not sure but willing to bet if someone had a Cruiseline trip on a vessel and one of their customers got drunk and injured after visiting the floating bar well guess what, they dont really care, those people were in your care and it will be that operator who will have the law suit not the bar.
These tourist people origanally wanted to see stingrays. Why do we have to turn it into a floating REHAB drunk fest.
Mr. Bush has an idea to attract a business that could seriously harm another fellow operator who is just trying to get by and guess what folks they just truly get by.
I wonder have other boat operators or the Land and Sea looked seriously at this? Why don’t they contact the insurers of these vessels and ask! It used to be with Royal Marine and so let someone contact them and ask.
I have thought about this a bit and really wonder if having liquor at the sandbar at all is even really necessary with cruise ship pasengers. Its only liability for those trying to show people a good time.
Well thats my 2 cents!
Well why don’t we get some strippers too to go with the booze and ATM Machine? Bernie, please focus on the youth I think they need you there more than getting our stingrays drunk. We have lost our focus of doing what’s right for Cayman instead its a ‘me get rich attitude’ so sad.
My family and I first visited Grand Caymay in 1996. This is the latest in a long list of activities leading to the island’s downfall as a popular destination. I love the diving on Grand Cayman but we will not be back. I would advise stopping selling out to exploitative individuals or lose your livlihood altogether.
Best of luck, Craig
Poor Bernie!
Pour Bernie?
N am N am why una dont leave the man and let him make some money like erebody else?
I totally agree that there should not be a Boat Bar at the Stingray City site.
What really bothers me everytime I read some comments on here, is all the fuss about whether the person writing in is "Caymanian", "Born-Caymanian" or "Non-Caymanian"??? For the life of me, I do not understand why this matters.
Can a "not born" Caymanian, such as myself, not feel for beautiful things being preserved in Grand Cayman? Although I was not born on this island, I have been a "Caymanian" since I was 17 years old, (now I am 52!)… but my "child" has the blood of a Caymanian father running through her veins, and I am so pleased to be able to say that she enjoyed this wonderful place when she was just a baby.
Her dad took her out everday to swim with, and feed these animals, when we took tourists out ondaily trips to see these creatures. How many children in the world can say that? There was never any liquor in the area then and there should not be now, especially being sold! There are not too many places like this in the world so why does there have to be liquor served in this sanctuary?
I think that Stingray City is a lovely "place of nature" and I hope it is going to be like that for my grandchildren’s children. I am so fortunate to have the memories of this area, when in the "way back when" days, this place was "very quiet" and "peaceful". In fact, I remember when the whole of Grand Cayman was "quiet" and "serene". Yes Cayman is still beautiful, but serene and peaceful places are sure hard to find on this island now. Surely all of the "olden days of Grand Cayman" do not have to be kept in a museum, under lock and key, to be paid an "admission" to see and remember.
I am so privilleged to have the memories of what Cayman was like 30 or 40 years years ago. And don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with "progress". It’s just a shame that when something is so lovely, why do people willingly or unwillingly want to do anything that might destroy it’s charm?
For the love of these marine animals, I just hope the people of the Cayman Islands, or the Government of the Cayman Islands, can preserve "some things" the way they were.
Why not take it up a notch Bernie – serve some food and make it a hammerhead interaction zone!
I just don’t see what the fuss is all about. It’s very simple; the man was GRANTED a liquor license for his boat and he wants to run a business. It’s not like this is going to be the first time someone obtains a license to sell liquor. What else are you people going to protest about now? The fool-fool roosters that crow at 10 pm in the evenings? Or too much Jamaicans and Filipinos in the water at Smith Cove spoiling your Sunday morning dip? Why didn’t you all protest against Camana Bay when that was going up?
Bernie, I know you will eventually read these comments and we want you to know that your own Caymanian people are behind you with this project and we are proud to know that you are contributing tothe island’s tourism. Keep dancing!
Well hello Mr. BUSH! Tell us, why are you so unwilling to #1 meet the concerned and #2 continue to destroy and wipe what Cayman was from memory and the face of the earth?
Are you serious??? It’s because of morons like you and this guy that our oceans are in so much trouble. I will never go back to Cayman if this happens. You people have no respect for the ocean. Shame on you!!
Please speak for yourself and not for all Caymanians. While "born and bred" here, I’m strongly opposed to the bar and fear for the poor stingrays and their safety.
So long the stingrays and the marine environment are not HARMED, there should be no restrictions on tourists drinking alcohol and enjoying themselves
M
The only way people can enjoy the wonders of Stingray City is to be sober, at all times. Inevitably people will get drunk to a point that will turn in to disaster as alcohol with sun and sea will have a much more drastic effect on humans in general. I can invision fights, speeding boats, stingrays being lifted out of the water as common sense at that time will most certainly have left the brain and once more the animals, in this case the stingrays will ultimately pay the price of human ignorance and stupidity.
Eventhough I am a smoker, I welcome the public smoking ban. I believe it is high time we install some sort of public drinking ban as well. I have not too often heard of a cigarette smoker killing animals or people with a car or boat, can’t say the same for drinkers.
When was the last time people were able to have "a good time" without the use of alcohol? Reality shows that those who enjoy their leisure time without alcohol have a much better time as they can actually remember what kind of good time they had.
Sorry Bernie, as others have stated too, bad idea and you will lose more then you will ever make with this concept.
As much as I would like to hope that our say (those opposed to the bar) would have any impact to liquor board or government approval of this, I camn’t help remembering the ‘dolphin in captivity’ issue!!!
All the opposition in the world got us nowhere and we eneded up TWO dolphinariums… its all about money and greed with no respect for how beautiful this island is and what it has to offer.
Senseless and foolish!!!
its being done already by tour operators that have liquor licences… why is it a problem that bernie wants to do it…. these are the same ppl who go to another tourist destination and think its a great idea and partake.
if a patron is drunk cant the bartender refuse to serve him
Because they are not PARKED on the sandbar.
Don’t know how this is affecting his li velyhood as he is the newly appointed Deputy Director of the National Festival Pirates Week…just goes to show you he does not have much to do the rest of the year…I guess organising and planning our national festival allows for plenty of time to deal with creating a new business venture, as well as the red tape that comes along with it…or the Deputy job does not pay enough…..?????
Thoughts anyone…..? Things that make you go hmmmmmm….?
Until ALL bars are closed or protested against, this is just another one-what is the deal?? The BIG thing with this is, this is just one little local boy from west bay running his OWN business and not fronting for foreigners.
People of all sorts protest against bars for a variety of reasons. I think the fact that this one is proposed to anchor (or float) in a marine zone is a valid reason for NOT having it.
This discussion is about the possible impact on the beautiful, the precious Cayman Islands that were founded by God upon the seas and is NOT about keeping a Caymanian businessman "down".
For those who think that simply because a Caymanian wants to start a(nother) business that it should be welcome with open arms – your willingness to sell anything Caymanian for a dollar is the reason so much trouble has come to your islands.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil: while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." 1 Timothy 6:10
No, you moron, the BIG deal is that this one is going to be in the middle of Stingray City, we are worried about the future of the place.
Locals go out on the boat – to DRINK, whether they carry their own or are buying it from Mr. Bush isn’t going to make much of a difference. This is the way it has been, and it is the way it will always be. Anybody who goes boating on Saturdays and Sundays, usually have a cooler stocked full of booze. On the flipside – the people protesting have a point, but I believe they are missing the most important one – which is booze and stingrays might not mesh well together! But hey – what does booze mesh well with these days?
You have a point, I will continue to drink copious amounts of alcohol on the North Sound and thoroughly enjoy myself doing it. I will not however be paying Bernie’s inflated prices when I can simply pack my own cooler. Or will there be a 100 foot radius around the boat with "no outside food and beverage allowed" signage. Irrespective of the environmental concerns, it’s simply not really a very good business idea.
I say let it die it’s own slow death.
I think we should ban drinking anything at the sand bar. Too much pee pee in the shallow water even now as it is. It is even worse at Rum Point on Sundays because the currents dont flush it quick enough.
LOL!!!! Good one…."pee pee"…
As we all know, a north sound floating bar will enable drunk boaters to drink their coolers dry, replenish, and over-consume. It will also encourage PWC/Jet ski operators (and other personal water craft without cooler space) to consume and ride with relative impunity.
It would be interesting to hear the positions of the Marine Police on this proposal given the above realities. Why have they been so silent?
How can the DEH approve of this proposal inside the Marine Replenishment Zone? Surely this barge will have to anchor well outside the Marine Zone so as not to violate existing Marine Interaction Zone rules?
CNS: The Director of the Department of Environment (which I think is the department you meant to refer to) is quoted in the article and makes it clear they have no say in this decision. I think you are also a bit naive as to whether or not civil servants, including the Marine Police, are allowed to voice their opinions publicly. They’re not.
Not to be a stickler, but I think you mean DOE (Dept. of Environment) not DEH (Dept. of Environmental Health (the garbage people)). Although, DEH does/should ensure that licenced premises are clean…sooo will DOE be driving DEH out to check? Or will DEH have to get their own boats (lol!!)
There has always been much confusion with these two departments as their names as so similar. Oh well..
CNS: Why are government departments not allowed to have a discussion about what’s best for the island? Isn’t that what the government is supposed to be doing for the public everyday?
CNS: Precisely. Everyone in the media and, I suspect, many in the civil service believe that they should be allowed to discuss what’s best for the island – often they are in the best position to know. It is a situation that can be incredibly frustrating for all concerned – except for politicians and the top echelons of the civil service who create the rules and an atmosphere of secrecy.
The problem with this country is that only a few feel that they should control all the business activity.
If you doubt me, just come up with a good money making idea and start a business and before you know it those who feel they only should control money making business will move in and squeeze the small man out.
This is more visible right now. A few watersports operators would take some paying guest to Rum Point for a sunday party and the next thing you know Brad Ebanks and his Marine Police Boats are right there to shut you down, simply because the people who want the business for themselves ordered it on the grounds that the music was too loud.
The popular family gathering spot at Rum Point is fast becoming a ghost town because of inteference from the Police.
"Problem with this country",
You miss the point when you suggest that its the people that complain about the loud music that wants to take over the business, you are so wrong, WE live there and I do not want to start any business, I just want to enjoy my life and my many friends and family. I am not an EXPAT either. Problem here is that no one is using COMMON SENSE, why do we need more alcohol paraded around the island in a family envoroment, stop looking at the almighty dollar and think about the outcome of what this floating bar will have on our youth. I didnt sign the petition but if it goes around the Island I most certainly will sign.
Really!
I don’t think it matters if you have a floating bar or a bar on land, or parade alcohol all around Cayman… A BAR is A BAR!
Young people are capable of making their own decisions and learning from their own experiences. The law cannot protect them! Rather, it is parental guidiance, and when they reach a certain age – they’re on their own!
Lach McTavish has started to open a potentially interesting can of worms. Would it be a requirement of the Liquor Licensing Board that Mr. Bush have sufficient Third Party insurance to cover both personal and property damage claims – I imagine it is definitely needed for licensed premises onshore.
As Lach says, it will need some big anchors on what is a soft sand bottom. If the "Bar" broke loose with patrons festooned around the edges, how long would it take to start the engines(if it has any) and achieve steerage way. Hopefully, as the patrons bailed out of their "seats", they would not be exposed to the churning propeller(s) – and any other vessels in the area, and their passengers/swimmers, would not be mown down by what would now be a fairly substantial moving navigation hazard. Should personal injury or property damage result from such an event, and Mr. Bush not have any insurance, could claims be made against the Liquor Licensing Board as the government agency which licensed the operation.
This prompts another question – presumably the Stingray City trip boats are licensed by government – do they have Third Party insurance to cover any claims arising from accidents resulting in injury to passengers.
Third Party boating insurance is very difficult to get here. I’ve always thought it should be mandatory for all boaters, esp the PWC/Jet ski crowd.
Third Party Liability Insurance is mandatory for all watersports operations in the Cayman Islands and in order to get that type of coverage the vessels used for watersports operation also have to have coverage and subject to inspection every 3 years. Additionally the vessels have to be inspected and licenced by the Port Authority.
90% are expats yes , probably the tourists that keep this island alive and love Cayman – love knows no boundaries…Tourist are the lifeblood listen to them
B.S Tourists do not get involved with forums and protests, so stop lying.
Its the ControllinBernie keep up the good works.
get the Stingrays Drunk and they’ll put on a good show for the tourists !
Learn to read BS…
Look at the post in this very forum by a Tourist :
My family and I first visited
My family and I first visited Grand Caymay in 1996. This is the latest in a long list of activities leading to the island’s downfall as a popular destination. I love the diving on Grand Cayman but we will not be back. I would advise stopping selling out to exploitative individuals or lose your livlihood altogether.
Best of luck, Craig
Also the refernce to tourists was members of the save stingray city facebook page – learn to read and understand the facts before you type…
Ps : I am also a Tourist, been coming here for years…
There are a few comments about whether the protestors to this are expat/local or inside/outside the Cayman Islands. Since this is a tourist attraction we’re talking about and most savvy travellers these days will check on the internet about a destination before they book their trip, it seems to me that the opinions of potential tourists are more relevant than locals who know/like/are related to Bernie Bush.
Why? Wouldn’t it be the locals who would feel the long term impact of the potential damage rather than a tourist that may come once? Do you think that having a floating bar will be the deciding factor for a tourist whether he/she is going to Stingray City?
Remember, it is all about setting a precedent! We have one floating bar at the Sand Bar, soon we will have others all over. This is not for the benefit for the Island, but rather to benefit the pockets of a few.
Here is what prospective and repeat tourists are thinking. I personally like some of the Tourism Dept. advert suggestions, love the irony of the family friendly atmosphere we try to project…
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cayman-islands/315814-floating-bar-stingray-city-3.html
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g147364-i260-k3266982-Swim_Up_Bar_at_Sting_Ray_City-Cayman_Islands.html
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g147365-i261-k3272591-Is_it_a_done_deal_bar_at_Stingray_City-Grand_Cayman_Cayman_Islands.html
Peace,
Captain Kayman
Totally agree with the poster at 09:26 and if the majority of these people that are soooo upset about ANOTHER boat obtaining a liquor license would get their facts straight I’m sure they’ll realize that their time off from work yesterday was a waste of time. What you all should be concerned about is the effects of the constant interaction with all those stingrays. Yeah, it’s all a big deal for the visitors/tourism and has been going on for many years but it’s only a matter of time before one of these creatures gets enough of the picking up, touching etc. and, as the old people would say, clap somebody backside, and then all of you environmentally-concerned, anti-bar complainants will have something else to worry about. For crying out loud, Bernie Bush is not wanting to do anything different than the rest of you boat owners with a liquor license so quit your whining, give the man a break and concentrate on your new year’s resolution if you haven’t started yet!
Unless he plans to wait to serve the liquor to the guests AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN IN THE WATER AND LEFT STINGRAY CITY, then he very definitely is doing something different.
No self-respecting charter boat operator serves liquor to a bunch of guest of varied swimming abilities and fitness levels then lets them loose into the sea – it is called liability!!!
On the plus side, BB will be out of business the first time a US lawyer gets on the end of a personal injury or death case of anyone who has consumed liquor from his bar.
I would say it is financial suicide for him – no insurance company worth their salt would cover him for liability!!!
So perhaps a condition of his license should be to procure and maintain $5 million in liability insurance… That would close the whole thing down.
Perhaps this has not entered his or the board’s mind, but it is a flashing warning light to me as a business owner…
Whyis it just a U S lawyer that will slap a law siut, how about the canadins, Englis, Jamaicans tec, just sat foreign lawyers, and stop the bashing for petes sake, fact is its just another waste of our time and efforts to build a friendly community here, too much anger and hate. read your responses before you click the send button and see if it isnt filled with it.
I used US since the vast majority of our tourists are from the US and they are renowned for their vigorous lawsuits when it comes to liability.
However, there are CanadiAns, EnglisH and many other lawyers, including the ones you mentioned… All of whom would, I am sure, love to slap a liability suit in the event of an accident or injury…
Bernie tell these idiots to pick up them whats it whats it and get out of Cayman its the foreigners that is envying you not your own Caymanians.
Alcohol and diving/snorkeling don’t mix. That is one difference.
Not to mention the coral reef.
Not to mention the numerous boats there (drinking and driving a boat don’t mix).
Leave the booze to the shore.
I can’t believe this is even being considered.
so we should ban alchol on all private boats????
we should ban all bars within 1/2 mile of the sea????
we should ban all bars beside pools???
the bar is not the problem, drinking to excess be it on land or sea is the problem
I am not opposed to booze. And yes no one should be drinking and driving a boat or snorkeling or diving.
Pretend I didn’t say "leave the booze on the shore". It confuses you.
You idiots are using all your energy protesting a mans business ane livelihood?
Why in the hell don’t you protest the criminal activity and march
Goes to show where your mind is. On stopping someone from progressing more than protecting yourselves from criminals. Everyone of you should be in front of the govt house right now protesting criminal activity instead of beatiing up your gumbs on Bernie Bush. What’s wrong with you all, you seem to be retarded. or are you all stupid foreigners trying to gain control again and stupid local people fighting Bernie. Let us know.
XXXXX
Livelyhood, foreigners trying to take controll ? The bar is not currently in existence so it is definately not affecting his livelyhood (note spelling)…I agree on the crime 100%…But this post is about the sandbar and not crime…
90 % of boating accidents and marine water sports accidents are alcohol related….Do the math, this would not be considered in most jurisdictions as it goes against every marine safety regulation in existence as well as common sense…
Also i do not see the sandbar license going out to bid and greedy controlling foreigners competing for controll – your arguement carries very little weight…
Is there going to be an ATM nearby?
And will it dish out real cash or funny money?
Just when I was getting bored with all the Whining,LOL love your humor.
to all the naysayers….. they all said they same thing about bars on the beach ruining everything for everybody, you can’t serve alcohol near water…etc.
wake up.. this will be a bar serving drinks alcholic and non-alcholic.. just like any other bar. Issues such as public disorder and littering are totally seperate and will have to be monitored and controlled.
Following the other posters mentallity all bars should be banned because some people choose to drink and drive…
whats more dangerous? a bar at the sand bar or an inland bar with 100 cars sitting outside in the car-park?
I agree. Most tourists already stand there with a beer in their hand, and I usually do, too. Whats bad about that? May be they will serve proper cocktails there? I really would aprrrreciate a Mudslide in one hand while watching the tourists scream in their first stingray encounter. It’s too funny.
One reason I do have against the bar: Why didn’t I have the idea???
Just this past weekend I made a few new friends. I met them on a flight from the USA as they were visiting the Cayman Islands for the New Year’s weekend. I witnessed them fumbling with pieces of A4 paper and discussing among themselves their plans for the weekend based on the printed guides and info obtained online etc.
Considering it was the NYE weekend and my local knowledge of the unpleasant surprises (store / attraction / restaurant / bar closures etc.) they were in for if forced to rely on said data I decided to have a little mercy on them.
Interestingly, one of these individuals is an avid scuba diver and another an executive at "Planet Green" which is an affiliate / subsidiary of "Discovery Communications / Discovery Channel".
Naturally, they took time out of their party-packed weekend to get in some diving and even booked a trip out to stingray city (thanks to my strong insistence on the issue by the way.) They loved it!
However, on Sunday during a conversation amongst all of us, I mentioned the planned protest on Monday and outlined the reasons behind it.
They were amazed, confused and disappointed – most of all was the "green executive". This individual ran down the checklist of the potential hazards and dangers to both the stingrays and humans that interacted with them in the event of such a proposal going through. Points were touched and expanded upon that did not even occur to me even though I am opposed to the floating bar as well.
So, yet again it appears that we have sent away yet another group of visitors with a rather bad taste in their mouths courtesy of the Cayman Islands.
Personally, I do not consider this a positive element of our tourism product.
** By the way … are there any professional lifeguards posted along the entire Seven Mile Beach at all? Is there anyway to send out a distress call from the shore in the event of an emergency? Are we at the mercy of the good luck of having a local mobile phone nearby, placing a 911 call and thereafter awaiting the arrival of the RCIPS marine unit which could be anywhere in the island’s waters at any given time? **
One of our visitors raised this point as well as they felt a bit vulnerable during their swimming and snorkeling of SMB over the weekend.
Information on this would be greatly appreciated.
Are we simply waiting for the first easily avoided tragedy to occur before we take steps to address a glaringly obvious shortcoming?
whodatis
I feel myself compelled to agree with Whodatis! There is a first time for everything!
Lol!
There very few accidents on SMB. There are only rip currents during nor’westers, most of the year lifeguard towers would be empty and/or vandalized/used as fire wood.
Come have a drink at our pristine unique ecotourism location. After you are done playing with the rays have a few drinks and let the wind blow your plastic cups into the water. Please do not mind the waves that travel through the sand bar and are breaking on your head. You need to go to the bathroom? Sure we have some on the bar but why not just relieve yourself into the vast sea. Once you get your liquid courage please attempt catching a ray on your own. Sometimes it is good to use a flipper to hold it down before you attempt to lift it up.
Floating Bar at the Sand Bar – Worst Idea Ever !!! – EPIC FAIL
How do you sign an on-line petition. With your toe???
There was about 5 people there when I went by so not that much support. Surprising really when Cayman is about to sell out it’s last remaining natural and cultural attraction.
In response to Jae keith’s posting. It is true that many of the boats visiting the sandbar do have liquor licenses. The difference is that most do not allow any consumption of alcohol until after snorkelling or departure from the sandbar. The Sandbar and stingrays are a very unique attraction. As it is we have probably commercialised it to the detriment of the overall experience. Certainly we don’t need to develop further safety issues at a location that is so important to our tourism product and needs to be managed and controlled.
I was not able to get to Hero’s Square yesterday as I was tied up in meetings but I agree with the reservations people have. Having visited Sandbar a couple of times I think it would be better without the thumping music some boats already play as it takes some of the magic away.
Also it may be interesting to contrast Sandbar to the other natural wonder associated with these Islands, the Turtles. Having a Turtle Farm to protect the species etc was a great idea (I have no idea how well it was run etc) but as soon as it was turned into a "tourist attraction" it has bombed. Dont let the same happen to Sandbar.
I cannot believe your ignorance whenever or where ever is it a good idea to mix alcohol and wildlife??? What is wrong with you people?
The same people that decided it’s a good idea to mix drinking with cars!!
This is just another Caymanian trying to get into the tourism industry and being blocked by the Nonbelongers controling it.
Belongers, you must be from Turks and Caicos…My friend most tourism operators in Cayman are Caymanian so your arguement is holds no weight, very easy to blame everyone else for your problems…
Or Bermuda…
But AMEN to you!!
Unless I’m missing something… isnt this Bar just a boat that has alcohol on it?
This has BEEN happening for along time, maybe not at the same volume but same none the less. I’ve seen many a large boat cruise (aswell as personal crafts) at Stingray city that had tons of people, loud music and Liquor for sale and in and out the water. Some on TV, are protesting a business venture that if they were the first with it you’d hear phrases like ‘product enhancement’ and Innovative tourism product’.
I’m very concerned about how the islands environment above and below has been mistreated. How is this Bar more a threat to the rays and the enviro. than all the other boats and tons of tourists that visit there everyday? They’ll have to look at stopping those too. Do you really see that happening along with the protests against? I hope these same concerned citizens educate themselves and are as vocal against all the other forms of threats to the NSound that happen everyday on large scales. These aren’t as sensationalized as this, yet do far more damage than boats selling alcohol could ever do.
well said, there are too many irrational hysterical reactions here mainly led by the anit-drinking brigade
Although I think that this bar is a stupid idea, I agree with the comments above. The stingrays congregate at the sand bar because tour operators feed them. There are hundreds of tourists that are taken to the sand bar by boat. The whole situation is not at all environmentally friendly. In addition, locals are going to drink at the sand bar whether or not this floating bar is there. There are many more important issues in Cayman that we should be protesting about – exp. improving the public schools, dealing with Mount Trashmore and using green energy
I support the boat bar at the sand bar.
Bernie is a good man but the Sandbar is not the place for such a Bar. It is understandable that Charter boats serve tourists and keep them happy as they commute and enjoy their vacation. BUT to give a license for a business to operate solely to serve liquor at our public world renown destination is inappropriate. The Sandbar is the Country’s tourism life line!! Take no chances with the GOLDEN EGG!! Sorry Bernie all the best in another venture.
Look at the make up of the members of,
"Save STINGRAY CITY from becoming a FLOATING BAR"
on Facebook. At 11:02 this evening (Monday) there are 380 members and that’s in less than a day. Six names have been added in the time it has taken me to write this. That number is almost as many as the total votes cast in East End and in North Side in the May election.
It’s a hard (possibly impossible) call to make but judging from the photos and surnames in Facebook, I estimate that over 90% are expats and Europeans.
Does that mean that Caymanians in favour of it or, as usual, don’t they give a s**t?
So true, I was thinking the same thing last night! Not to say that non-Caymanians can’t have an opinion, and not to say that they’re wrong but it really is quite interesting isn’t it?
I am not sure that these days you can tell a Caymanian from a non-Caymanian by looking at their surname. I’m Caymanian, married to an "expat" – my surname is no longer "Caymanian". Same with many of my friends and their Caymanian children. At what point is someone Caymanian enough?
Actually, I was not just basing my observation on last names and physical appearance like the first poster (though I did consider that as well), but also on the geographical networks that they were in. Most were not based in Cayman, and as a Caymanian who has lived here my whole life I’m also comfortable saying I know a whole lot of people here, and scrolling through the 300+ names I didn’t recognise very many.
Does anyone know what XXX’s motive is> Is it to stop a Caymanian from makig some real money> Bernie has been held edown long enough now they are drowning him because this is a lottery shot for him.
If that had been a foreigner up there in Cayman Kai, nothing would be said. Mike Dice has had a bar up there in cayman Kai for donkey years, he’s not Caymanian born, but with status. So why can’t a true born son of the soil get the same chance to make money and be a millionaire.
Fifty cent song say "Have a baby by me baby, be a millionaire.
Caymanians are killing the pregnant Caymanianian with the baby in the stomach stopping him from becoming a millionaire and again hindering one of their own from making a living. They are actually aborting this man’s efforts.
Someone please check and see whether these are foreigners or Caymanians fighting this floating bar. If its foreigners, it can not stop. If they are Caymanians you have to look into it to see if its jealousy, or politics,
in any case the man should be able to go ahead with making a living and have a baby by the Stingray and be a millionaire !….sane?
1. 50 cent got shot, not a great role model
2. Mike Dice has a bar not in a marine park
3. Nobody is stopping any Caymanian from opening bars, if the liquor board is stopping a Caymanian from opening a bat then your arguement has weight , right know it has none…
Son of the soil, stay on land – the sandbar is crown seabed – everything below the High water mark is crown seabed…Stick to the soil…
"man should be able to go ahead with making a living and have a baby by the Stingray"
I believe that is illegal even in the Cayman Islands.
Ok the young Miss has had her fifteen minutes of Fame. Sandra Catron had more votes percentage wise than the protest and lost, so I do not see any "Win in the support" for the petition. The facts are that no fish will get drunk or die, all the protesters are emotionally caught up in in a fantasy of there own making. Every or almost every boat in the sound has drinks on board.
As far the relationship issue is concerned, that was a dumb dumb comment. 15,000 plus Cayman people and you expect that we are not somewhat related here and there. Go for it Bernie, good idea. Happy New Year.
Spoken like a truly tolerant Caymanian who respects the attempts of another "Caymanian" (since I know you won’t let her be called that) to ensure that we don’t grab the golden goose, wring its neck, throw it under a bus and burn it at the stake in the short term greed driven lust for dollars.
Clearly there is support. This story has garnered more feedback, mostly in support of banning the bar, than most stories do.
To my knowledge, noone has suggested any fish will get drunk – though I will go out on a limb and suggest some might die after 400 tourists quietly sip drinks all afternoon and notta one gets out to use the potty facilities – you do the math on that one…
There is a fundamental difference between "every boat in the sound" having drinks on it, versus actually setting up a sales point at the Sand Bar. And if a boat does have drinks, they accept the liability of actions under the influence. Hence the watersports operators that sell drinks won’t do so until after their water stops – to limit their liability and the risk of injury to their guests.
In other parts of the world, the law has now stretched the limits of liabilities to include the bar selling the drinks to the patrons, citing their responsibility for ensuring their patrons drink responsibly. I am sure Bernie has looked long and hard at this aspect and is aware that if an American tourist is injured or dies, and the next of kin retain a bulldog of a lawyer, he is covered when they come in to chew him a new one…
Your last line sums it up – you are clearly one of the protectionists who fail to acknowledge that without expats coming to our islands, we would be nothing. We would all be back to swatting skeeters in the middle of the day, backing water in whompers, reading by the light of a kerosene lamp in our smoke houses, and waiting til next Christmas for our next beef dinner.
Grow up – the world is a different place. Us Caymanians who welcome the expats, do so with an eye of working together for a common goal – the good, controlled, safe growth of our islands.
Unna? Back in the crab bucket!!!
It really saddens me that the entire island and everything in it is viewed simply as something to exploit for a buck. The idea of a floating bar at stingray city is beyond belief and the way this business venture passed through the approval process without anyone knowing about it seems suspicious to me.
Caymanians wonder how and why their culture is disappearing and young people seem lost to traditional values yet see a floating bar selling Cayman food as something of which to be proud.
Don’t tell me if Cayman food doesn’t sell the management won’t change the menu in a second to burgers, fries and tacos so forget it being a big cultural expression for the benefit of Caymanians.
Will all the staff, waitresses, cooks & bartenders be Caymanian?
This is the most ridiculous liquor license ever granted in Cayman. Based on what was reported, it appears that the Board was not made aware that this bar was to be stationed at Sting Ray City and if this is the case, then one has to wonder if the Board was deceived. If the Board feels that this information would have been important for their decision, then they should revoke the license. If the info was irrelevant, then they should acknowledge this as well.
Drinking alcohol and playing with stingrays don’t mix and if this is allowed, it will only be a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or killed because they were intoxicated and handling the rays irresponsibly.
I know Bernie Bush well and have nothing personal against him. In fact, I applaud his entrepreneurshipand wish him future success but this is one venture that I cannot support.
I was hoping it was April 1st when I read the Board’s announcement, but sadly this is no joke!
I absolutely do not agree with there being a bar at the Sandbar and I am absolutely disappointed with judgment of the Liquor Licencing Board and its leader. Alcohol produces intoxicated people and intoxicated people interacting with stingrays or operating boats, or even as passengers on boats is a recipe for disaster. In addition to that, when I take my kids there, they are going to be subject to foul language from people who have had too much alcohol to drink and can no longer control their mouth. How can we ever change the moral fabric of this community when alcohol and drugs are being thrusted at society as if to say that you cannot enjoy yourself without them? Look at all the problems and injuries alcohol has caused. Yet, no one has ever held a liquor licence establishment accountable, even though the liquor law says that you should not sell alcohol to an intoxicated person.
Look at the community of Savannah. They hold their Pirates Week functions and keep them alcohol free and it is a pleasure to take your kids there, which proves that alcohol is not needed to have fun. My view is that the sale of alcohol at Stingray City will be the catalyst for the end of Stingray City. God help us!
PATHETIC
Fool !
How about a mobile bar service that can set up outside churches every saturday and sunday??? If we can violate our environmental heritage, why not our biblical??
When does it stop???
This is pushing the limit in a major way, and while it will appeal to a small portion of the visiting public, the majority who care would see this as inherantly bad.
What do the major watersports companies think about this??
Red Sail will not serve to patrons until AFTER the water stops. What happens to their patron who drinks DURING the stop,then has an accident. Lawyers will be all over this assigning blame…
I mean, come on, I am all for drinking, fun and days out on the water – even all three at once. But to commercialize it to this level is insane.
On the other hand, if this goes through, no reason not to have a Burger King, KFC, TCBY and more out there.
Seriously – we go to Stingray City to get away from this crap – if we want a drink, we can bring it with us.
Or we can watch as the world witnesses us destroy one of our premier destinations.
Come on, common sense needs to prevail here – or is it the common dollars that will win out…
Thank God someone had the guts to stand up to the UDP Government. Yes, Mark Scotland is Bernie’s Brother-in-Law and Bernie is affiliated to the UDP. I know Bernie and I Pray he remains the humble, caring person I knew. Bernie please stick to what you know and that is Children and Sports.Please do not try to damage this Island Environment anymore please help save our youth by not selling liquor to them. Please ask MacKeeva to put you in another position that is beneficial to the Island and stop focusing on the ‘get rich overnight policy’.
Why does the Sandbar need a liquor bar? Greed! greed! greed! When will this stop?? Then we wonder why our youth are misguided???
Next someone will want a bar in the mangrove swamps to cater to the kayak nature tours! Where is the on-line petition against this folly so I can sign up?
Having been a part of the "silent"protest today I would like to make a few comments.
If I understand correctly people are saying that many boats go out there with"booze" onboard.Quite true I am sure but these are PRIVATE boats not commercial boats.One cannot stop "John Henry" from drinking while at the sand bar but lets take this a bit further.If a commercial boat full of cruise shippers goes to the sand bar as far as I know no one is given any "booze"while taking part in "inwater "activities.When that same boat leaves the area for its return trip THEN and only THEN are people given a complimentary rum punch or "other"drinks.Maybe not all boats do this while cruising back but my point is giving a PAYING tourist the chance to swim over to the floating bar opens up a rather dangerous situation for (1)The boat operator(2)The CI Government re the possibility of a large Law Suit if they(The govt)condone such activities by issuing a licence in the first place.(3)I presume Insurance will have to be in place by the "Bar operator"to cover the possibility of death or injury to anyone swimming up to his bar and drinking.It can be a mad house out there on any given day and when you take into consideration the weather,amount of people in the water and where the bar will be anchored it will add further to the VERY REAL POSSIBILITY of a MAJOR ACCIDENT taking place.That area is way overloaded now without adding another Bar/rest.Where will it be located?In the middle of the bar?Good luck with trying to do that on a crowded day.
Lets not take that chance all for the sake of a few dollars and keep the sand bar the way it is for all to enjoy.
Una just stfu and get in with the real world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The locals, long-time visitors, and tourists in general, who post on the http://www.tripadvisor.com forums have been very vocal in their opposition to this venue.
I wonder if "Joe Blow" applied for this Liquor License if it would have been granted. I doubt very much and as Mr B.Bush received a good paying job as Deputy to the Pirates Committee and has little work outside of Pirates Week, he has been helped out again by his friends in Government. Yes, we know when your brother-in-law is a Minister you will receive special perks and that will always be how The UDP and their cronies work. Believe me, "Time is longer than rope" and we soon see justice!
Look at the make-up of the board members of the liquorlicensing board and you can protest until heaven falls and you wont stop this licence from being issued. This has political overtones and will get the support of the UDP by all means.
Why who is related to who?
So although I do understand why some people are against this initiative it also must be remembered that a good portion of boats heading out to the sandbar have liqor on board….check next time you are out there….a lot of people also already get into the water with beers etc….so what would change if there was an official bar there? maybe rather than get worse it would mean more monitoring of the area because of a licence being involved. just a thought.
Just a thought…..
You will need some serious anchors to keep a bar/barge in place……Hopefully NO permanent mooring anchor…..so people take beer etc on their boats….that is their perogative…..a commercial establishment is a totally different issue…..how do you enforce a problem with a commercial estab….what about an injury, altercation, heart attack….it is completely different….private vessels are private……do the liquor board have a liability? how do they inspect when the operation is in place? AND their will be garbage.
Hey I’m all for capitalism but this business is open to all kinds of problems.
that’s almost like you are considering both sides of the argument….. you know that is not allowed….. alchohol is bad stingray city is good.
More efforts should be made for Nature Tourism and conservation of what is left.
http://www.oceanoasis.org/conservation/study8.html
http://www.islandoasisbelize.com/m3a.html
http://travel.excite.co.uk/news/4474/Green-and-Serene-Margaret-Island-in-Budapest
I’m very happy also for the turnout for this event to protest against a bar at Stingray City and/or the Sandbar
To have a bar at a venue such as a National Marine Park simply does not in any way enhance the park area. Those who want a drink can do what we have always done…bring your own.
Surely the Cayman Islands have enough bars (and churches) already.
Also of consideration, if Mr. Bush is allowed to do this then why not others? Why should he or any individual have the right to do this over any other citizen? How many such facilities wil be allowed?
One more concern; Mr. Bush is Mr. Scotlands brother-in-law. I sure would hope that fact has nothing to do with this?
I sincerely hope the powers that be will do the right thing!
Well I bet you don’t know how many brothers I’ve got
Nope, but you can be dam sure that I’m calling Austin to find out!
Wouldbn’t be doing much business today.
an online petition should be started. I would sign it.