Civil service rejects cuts
(CNS): The civil service has offered to give back its cost of living adjustment of 3.2% for the remainder of this budget year but then take ten daysunpaid leave in the 2010/11 budget year instead of a direct pay cut, as proposed by government. CICSA said this was equal to a 4 percent reduction in pay but has rejected all of government’s pay and benefit cut proposals of as much as 10 percent announced by the premier earlier this month. The association has also asked government to offer public sector workers the opportunity to choose from a number of options to help reduce the deficit rather than imposing salary or benefit cuts that they cannot afford.
CICSA also said it could not support the proposal for itsmembership to pay half of the health care benefits. It said the co-pay rates proposed by the government are expensive. However, it said some members had expressed support of co-pay options, “if and only if those options include the ability to choose a health care provider”, and if it was comparable to those in the private sector.
Feedback regarding salary cuts revealed that many public sector workers could not to cope with the proposed pay cuts, the association said. “The Association does not recommend that public servants agree to the pay reductions proposed by the government but that consideration be given to less damaging reductions,” the report said.
“Despite the generalizations being made by some in the public, we have a firm understanding of the difficult financial situation that faces the majority of public servants. Most … will have to make significant life-style changes, and will endure hardship in order to adjust, even to the recommendations of the Association,” CICSA stated. “We believe that Public Servants in general and in most cases have gone above and beyond the call of duty in serving the needs of the people of this country. However, we also recognize that whether justified or not, whether fair or not, more is once again being requested of us.”
The association also suggested government could reap personnel related savings over and above those recommended if it chooses to use a collaborative approach, allowing employees a suite of options to choose from. Options could be researched and presented by the Portfolio of the Civil Service, and should also include other choices that could be used by departments that may have difficulty scheduling unpaid leave.
“This would allow those employees that can go above the required amount to do so and others to consider one day off every 2 weeks or a 4-day work week, since the additional day off would provide time for volunteering, education & training, or getting essential family related tasks done,” the report said.
Unpaid leave, the public sector body added, would create savings to government but would limit the broader economic impact of salary reductions, as employees would be able to choose what works best for them and their personal family situation.
Category: Headline News
Keep cutting salaries,but at the TOP.The TOP CIVIL SERVANTS[MLA’S]are the big MONEY MAKERS,they are the same ones that promised to take US out of this mess…When????They just need to adjust their salaries some MORE,PUT SOME OF ALL THE EXTRA MONEY THAT THEY are getting to help take care of their elderly people and family that aren’t as lucky as they are with suchhhh hugeeeee salaries.Most of them poor/mental/homeless and unemploid peoples are their own relatives and sibilings;So why not take out some $$$$ out of their own pockets to help feed them and also help all the poor old GRANMAS: M,B,R or X that only gets $550 a month AND SOME GETS NON,to live and in some cases still help raise and feed some of the MLA’S childrens’and grand children’s,becuase they are too busy to spend time with their family….LOL.Some things need to change around here to help get Cayman backto the place we just to be…Help needed PLEASEEEEEEEE.How about all the MLA’S donate a $1000 dollars each month for the 4 YEARS THEY ARE IN SERVICE,IF THEY DO GOOD AND HELP FIX THE PROBLEM,MAYBE THEY WILL GET VOTED BACK,REMEMBER ELECCIONS WILL BE BACK.SEE YAAA THEN.
I, for one, am looking forward to the civil service cuts. For one, it will shut up all the civil service bashers. For two, when the services that had been provided by those persons cut are no longer available, there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Residents, you cannot have your cake and eat it too.
You mean the 3 hour queues, or trying to speak to someone to be trf’d around for 10 mins then hung up on, or even trying to get anything down after 3pm on a friday.
Man and things are going to get worse, ha ha, don’t think anyone will notice.
I’ve just heard on Radio Cayman the Chief Petroleum Officer tell us that to save money on gas we should keep our tyres inflated properly and drive carefully at a constant speed. He also explained that if demand is up in the States gas gets more expensive here. He sounds like a nice guy but do we wonder the civil service costs so much? What the hell can someone like this do as a full time job that couldn’t be done by part time spot checks and other methods. And I’ll bet there is a Deputy Chief Petroleum Officer – can anyone confirm?
Oh well, let me now go and listen to the weather from our Met Office (relaying it to us from other countries). Bet there’s a Chief Met Officer and a Deputy Chief Met Officer. Ah so it go. But it can’t go so for long.
I didn’t believe that the customer service in some Government departments could get any worse, but I stand corrected!!!! What a mess and they don’t think their salaries should be cut?
quote "The Civil Service is too large for the size of this country. Added to that, the next aspect is this extremely large Civil Service is not required under employment terms to pay either a portion of pension or health insurance benefits." unquote & Tues 03/16 – 11:26
Why is everyone saying that ‘Civil Servants’ do not contribute to pension?
From the time I joined the Civil Service and signed up for pension my contribution was taken out of my salary!!
You lie!
I think you’ll find that you’re paid 106% of salary (if the CIG information is correct):
The last sentence is interesting as well; private sector employees have to wait 2 years to withdraw their pension benefits, which might well cause considerable hardship.
Hallelujah!
I been tryin to tell them this for weeks and they been in denial!
Because you salary is topped up to negate this.
Wed 10:13.
No it’s not. That was just a wheeze by Government many years ago to show it on your pay slip as if it is. Your salary is what is on the salary scales.
It was an oversight on my part the correct term for Civil Service Pension and Health Insurance Plans are Non-Contributory Plans. I’m sorry I forgot to say… pension was in fact deducted. And also I forgo to say… there was a salary allowance to cover the cost of the pension deduction. As well as for Health Insurance premiums.
In other words, it may be deducted, but it doesn’t cost the employee anything. Forgive me.
I replied to this and gave my apologies. And then read the Miller Report.
Quoted directly from the Miller Report on information given by the CIG:
"Public servants and their spouses and dependent children are entitled to free medical and dental care during public service and after retirement."
During my apologies I, how stupid of me, I forgot to mention free Dental care.
The Miller Report goes on to say other things.
Such as compensation paid to the public sector in Cayman is higher, much higher, than other countries. I forgot to mention that too. Sorry.
Including:
Denmark, Norway, Portugal, Canada, Sweden, Finland, Ireland, Spain, Greece, United Kingdom, Belgium, Italy, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Austria, Czech Republic, and Germany.
Let’s get this story right. Civil Service did not reject cuts. Thiose people mostly in the upper bracket, some not even part of CICSA came up with these brilliant ideas. Everyone didn’t get a say especially Cayman Brac and Little Cayman.
If everyone in Civil Service was polled then I would say it’s fair but a few people making a decision for everyone else isn’t right.
Has anyone noticed the change in Mac?
I ask this because, when Hurricane Ivan hit ,he was like ,let’s get this island back together,I don’t see this now,he is dumbfounded as to handle this situation.
The present Hurricane ,is the dire financial situation of the government.They have no money ,plain and simple.What to do?.
Chastise every news reporter for bringing to light the situation in the Caymans,to the outside would.(as he did in Ivan).
Or take a high road and admit that the civil service is the reason, for the problem.
Do the civil servants have more control than Mac?.
I ask this question because I have never seen Mac, flip,flop ,more ,since he has taken power,a scant 10 months ago .
Greed is going to be our downfall
Not everyone still will acknowledge how large the civil service has grown in the last 5 years. It is the root of our expenditure problems and everyone else is been held ransom to pay for it. Whether in new taxes, sale of assets or direct taxation.
Wake up, solve it now, do not like the pill, well it is going to an injection and then eventually major surgery that we just might die under the knife and right here on this table top.
OPEN LETTER TO THE GOVERNOR
The cutting of civil servants should be limited to the following:-
They must contribute to their own health insurance paying half of their premiums, Its only fair to tax payers.
Caymanians should not be layed off, foreign X-pats should be cut and not the local Caymanians, that’s only fair.
We can not tolerate firing the Caymanians and have the X-pats keep their civil servant job. That’s just not fair. We are in a recession and people must understand that the Caymanian people must come first.
BEAR IN MIND, LOCAL BUSINESSES ‘DO NOT HIRE CAYMANIANS" SO THERE IS NO NEED TO CREATE A SCENARIO OF LAYING OFF CAYMANIANS BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT BE HIRED AT ALL BY LOCAL BUSINESSES OR CORPORATIONS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. ANY PROMISE TO STOP THE GRANT OF WORK PERMITS SO THEY CAN GET HIRED WILL NOT BE BELIEVED BY ANYONE NOR TAKEN SERIOUSLY WE KNOW BETTER.
Are you going to grant Social Service millions in stimulous money to support the layed off Caymanians? I think not, so lets be smart aboutthis whole process.This would be also very humiliating as well because Foreign owners of businesses here locally do no’t like Caymanians and they have no intention of hiring them. THEY HIRE THEIR OWN.
That’s the Picture good Governor, so do your thing, but do not hurt our people.
MR. BUSH PLANS TO GRANT THOUSANDS OF WORK PERMITS IS NO ENCOURAGEMENT TO ANY CAYMANIAN BE IT CIVIL SERVANT OR LOCAL CIVILIAN.
Going to be? Are you asleep?
That’s a done deal!
This sounds like a case of the "Tail wagging the dog"
Teachers are among the lowest paid professionals in the civil service, and yes teachers all have a first degree and many also masters degrees. Teachers don’t have the luxuries many of the other civil servants enjoy, example, no hour lunches… no they eat with their students, lunch duty on the playground, after school duty.. sometimes till well after 5:00 p.m. waiting for parents to collect their children, take work home, lesson planning on the weekend, participate in fundraisers, attend PTA meetings just to name a few. So while all the civil service bashing is going on, please remember teachers are civil servants too and they work.
AMEN! These same teachers who have provided many of the MLAs with the highest education, high school. Are severely underpaid and overworked and not appreciated!
Teachers are not Civil servants! look up the english dictionary.
And if the Premier carries out his duties of cutting civil servants numbers and salaries, are we to expect strike action.
Well if that is the idea, the Public would not even notice because they do next to nothing now anyway.
TO FUZZY…. cute name btw.
GROW UP PETER PAN….CHUCKY CHEESE… I’m alot of things but dumb isnt one of them. We all have seen numerous goverment employees taking naps on the side of the road (during road works), eating next to fosters in the morning (while goverment vehicles are on, burning fuel…). Not to mention the 1/2 million you have stolen in fuel (fyi isnt this illegal) We are trying to save the country money. You must be a CS…. I am so sorry how finally you are being affected. Keep in mind the private sector has been riding this wave for years homie. So please look at all my thumbs up before you answer me next time.
Regards,
Texan
Hold it!! Everyone!! Back to your corners!
Understandably, civil servants are feeling a little picked on.
We’re going to have to find some common ground. Here’s the situation, as I understand it from the public’s viewpoint:
The Civil Service is too large for the size of this country. Added to that, the next aspect is this extremely large civil service is not required under employment terms to pay either a portion of pension or health insurance benefits.
Add the fact that: The government is behind the eight ball with it’s budget. To the tune of 62 million dollars. Possibly more because they keep throwing figures around.
Here’s the gist:
The budget deficit must be brought under control. And soon and government has stated revenues are not up to expectations.
And, because the public isn’t responsible for controlling expenditures or revenue the the public’s reaction is understandable: Cut the size of the Civil Service. Or the next option. Reduce wages. Or at the very least, to reduce expenditure, require civil servants to pay a portion of pension and health insurance.
All of those have been rejected, with only a token and temporary roll back proposed. As many civil servants are saying that it isn’t their fault. It’s the government’s fault for launching into projects they could not afford.
Yet this does not answer in the public’s mind why over 50% of the government budget now is for present, and past Civil Service wages and benefits.
Each civil servant is not responsible for this individually. It is hardly their fault individually either if there wasn’t the money to pay for all the people employed. They were offered a job and like any of the public offered a job, they took it.
It was then up to their employer to ensure the money was there for their wages. I and many others would take it personally if an employer had hired me at a certain wage, and then turned around and said they couldn’t afford it.
This is what the public, and civil servants are now being told.
Where the public draws the line is in questioning:
How, and why, did all those people get hired? And what was the overall plan?
If the plan revolved around paying wages with revenues. How was the revenue projected? In that respect, it is the government’s fault, and not civil servants, if revenues came up short. And now, we’ve been told that also. Projected revenues were off.
Government departments also work on budgets. They must budget for the number of employees, and expected revenues. At least you would hope so.
The public is also questioning, without government departments and agencies submitting accounts for approval or scrutiny for the past few years, how were budgets decided upon? So if there was no accounting there must not have been a budget for hiring staff or additional staff? Bringing the public back to the same question. Why were so many people hired?
And, if people were hired. Why so many? If it wasn’t budgeted for? The answer to that if you’re in the civil service, is known to you already.
The wages of every bureaucrat are dependent on how many work under them. How large their department is, or becomes. How many advisors, and assistants, they say they require. This increases their budgets, filters up to the top and ensures their bureaucratic future. And, with all this responsibility and added manpower, necessary or not a higher wage is required to run this large and getting larger department.
So the public isn’t angry at individual civil servants. Far from it. We’re angry that the Civil Service Association has allowed this to happen. When it could have had more oversight and discretion in creating unnecessary jobs.
Because the Civil Service is somewhat secretive and protective the public is saying to civil servants, although not very nicely sometimes and sometimes taking wild guesses:
YOU’RE the only ones who know where those unnecessary jobs are. Because YOU work there.
And we’re saying: If you do truly have an association you’d better get on it.
And if YOU don’t do something about it YOU’RE going to be facing either: a reduction in wages and benefits or lose your job entirely. Not your boss. You.
Although we know it may not have been your fault individually:
The ball is in your court.
I find it incredibly ignorant for people to say that all civil servants are overpaid, lazy, etc. I am an educated civil servant, work my tail off, and I can tell you that I am far from being overpaid! I find it very hard to survive with the cost of living on this island and the cuts they are proposing would amount to everything outside of guaranteed expenses every month (and then some if cinco was included). That means NOTHING more than what is essential to survive (no savings, no dinners out, no trips, etc.).
I am not saying that everyone earns what they make in the civil service, but I do know that some make far less than they should. The blanket statements that I hear are ignorant and shameful.
I’m no economist, but why can’t we get a small percentage from the people that have been making millions/billions off being allowed to setup shop here over the years? It is deplorable that they are left alone (relatively) while thousands of hard-working people who care about these islands are made to suffer.
I don’t blame them for rejecting the cuts – stand firm!
It is easy for the ones who are making over $12,000.00 per month to suggest pay cuts as it does not affect their take home pay as much as it affects the people who are making around $3 to $4 thousand.
Also, anyone who does not have to pay for gas each month as chaffeurs are provided for every place they go, and anyone who does not have to pay for a cook/housekeeper, will never feel the hardship of a paycut as it truly does not bite into their take home pay.
I have really come to see and know how unfair life can be, when the only time you prosper is when you are a "lackie", and I only pray that the Attorney General really digs into all the "buddy buddy" deals that are going on, XXXXX.
A common theme i’ve heard mention here by many of the civil servants is how the cuts would impact their essential spending and i believe here in lies the problem. Next time you are driving past any civil servant parking lot, take a look in at the range of lovely 4×4’s and luxury car brands parked there. Having a monthly payment on a luxury car does not constitute an essential spend. Have a go at living within your means guys and you will so that the cuts really are not that bad. Luxury cars are not a necessity!
No one actually wants to see the civil servants salaries cuts under normal circumstances but these are definitely not normal circumstances. Most civil servants do a decent job and they will continue to do a decent job even with a 10% cut or having to make contributions to your own pension or healthcare plans.
Maybe a few dollars could be paid back by all those who got ‘FREE GAS’ illegally over the years! Try to get some names and send them the bill. All those who wasted so much Govt. time should now have a really disturbed conscience!!
Plan your finances – not all of us can take trips abroad! Many sacrifices have to be made! A cut is much better than losing your job. Some of us are looking for a job & we get no benefits at all!!! Compare your life to others less fortunate than you.
Maybe a few dollars could be paid back by all those who got ‘FREE GAS’ illegally over the years! Try to get some names and send them the bill. All those who wasted so much Govt. time should now have a really disturbed conscience!!
Plan your finances – not all of us can take trips abroad! Many sacrifices have to be made! A cut is much better than losing your job. Some of us are looking for a job & we get no benefits at all!!! Compare your life to others less fortunate than you.
There is a need for the reduction in size of the Civil Service. CISCA (of which I choose not to be a member) itself has now finally admitted that the same amount of work can be carried out and the same services offered with ten less working days per year by each Civil Servant. If the number of persons being referred to is indeed as many as 6000 and they were all to take 10 days unpaid leave, by my calculations that amounts to 60,000 less working per year. This in itself is an admission of overstaffing.
Additionally, while I think I see where they were going with the offer of 3.2% since Mac went completely to the other extreme, I think an across the board 5% reduction would have been a more realistic offer. I am from a two Civil Servant household and would still be willing to work with this if need be.
I do have a problem taking any cuts however unless the elimination of duplicate and unneccesary positions is addressed immediately.
Although I have in semi-jest mentioned taking my children from Private Schools and enrolling them in the Government system, these things will be a reality for some and I do hope that before any final decisions are made, a thorough examination of the possible fallout is carried out and the Government and Civil Service alike are prepared for the likely consequences.
I can tell you any cut in salary will reduce any duties which me be collected from my household be it through groceries, clothing, household improvements, etc, any Cayman Airways travel we may have been planning, all charitable donations, amongst other things.
I am willing to make those small sacrifices however.
My offer stands at 5%
nice story. make the same offer to the head of your department if you’re serious.
Caymanian Government and Civil service. In trying to save yourselves you have and will continue to bring down the ability of the public to survive. A billion dollars in dept, over 60 million dollars oops in this years budget alone and both growing every day.
You have proven time and time again that you cannot live without stealing food that is not yet even on the public’s table. Unfortunately for you and the public on which you feed there is no cure for the problem and very little being done for the symptoms. Death will come for this system of over control and the huge doctor bill will be all that is left for the survivors.
Those of you who are not tied up to this system and are used to standing on your own two feet will be the new benefactors of Cayman islands. Get ready your tools my friends. Before you can start rebuilding you will first have to bury the dead. Courage and patience.
How more ungrateful can they be! I have never heard of any place besides the CI Government where you can tell your bosses what they can’t and can’t do..
Governor Duncan, please make your mark and tame this tiger before it kills us all. We will support you!!!!
Have to agree fully, the C-Servants have been riding the Gravy-train for far too long and at our (Tax payers) cost. 90% of them are overpaid and under-worked to begin with…just look at the size/weight of most of them( must be from the 2-3 hour lunch-breaks)!
If it would be up to me the cuts would be more serious than the proposed (a drop in the Bucket) ones, permanent job cuts would follow, starting from the top ! What’s wrong with paying their part on Health and Pension, we do just that and a lot of us making a lot less than 3 and 4000.00 a month! Then adjust/cut the Salaries according to the private Sectors, that could save a few Mio’s right away!!!
However, if you really want to make an impact to the Cash-flow etc. one has to review and cut the fat on the top, the 90’000.00 a Year and up kind a Job’s, keep the Deputies and their Assistants they mostly do all the work anyway, save more $again! Last but not least; review all the many newly created Human resource positions; Directors, Managers and assistant Managers, mainly Canadians and a few Brits! Of course they are good friends to the previous Administration more specifically to some of the defunct Chief Officers (still getting a paycheck too) which are part of the mess left behind! Just to clarify, I am not against Foreigners I am one myself, but Business is Business!
Centralize the HR department one Office for all the various Ministries and Gov-Departments, similar to the Civil Service Commission in the old days, but as an full Time operation! Have you ever seen a large Company-Factory-Hotel Shipping line etc. employing 3-4000 having more than 1 HR office, providing they are all in the same Country? I bet you, Government would save a few Millions with this move alone!
My Statement may seem a bit harsh but facts are facts! Not all Civil Servants are “bad” and lazy as other may state, however there are many and it has been tolerated for too long! It is unfortunate that the hard working, trustworthy and hard working ones are usually the ones with the small pay and the sh…. End of the stick!
Last but not least: Do no longer negotiate with the “Civil Service Union”, who is calling the Shots here them you or us!!!? Are you telling me that they want to take the whole Island hostage
The ultimatum to them: take the Cut or resign or we will resign for you, better yet make the Jobs redundant!
I cannot believe that the Civil Service is being so unco-operative. I think the Deputy Governor and Governor need to make some of those duplicated post redundant and send those individuals home. In every department there are more than one person doing a particular job and the job is still not getting done. For example, no one answers the telephone at the Department of Immigration!!!!
There is one of your problems, the deputy gov for starters……!!!
"…Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country" -JFK 1961
This is a simple clear message from many decades ago! If the CSA will not agree to action now, there is another option left. The Governor can contact the FCO and explain the legal issues regarding the contracts and get an extension. When a CS contract expires, the employee is presented with the new contract with the adjustments made to it(pay cut, pension, and healthcare) This will leave the employee with two options, Sign the contract and have a job, or quit and go find a new one. Both outcomes will lower CIG expenditures, it will just take a bit longer. This may seem harsh, but in the private sector an employeer would release you from your contract and hire a new employee at a lower rate of pay. The CS is not going to escape these pay cuts, they are coming NOW or LATER.
Gov cars left in the Gov car park at night and mileage logged and analysed for personal usage. This will control fuel as well.
For the last 2 weeks we have listened to civil servants telling us that they have had a pay freeze in place for years.
They had a 3.2% raise last year??? you call that a pay freeze?? A pay freeze is zero %, no cost of living increase.
The private sector has been getting zero % or large cuts for the last couple of years.
It’s as if they live a little bubble. I was talking to one CS you told me he was broke, yet he had a $10,000 6 month old rolex on his wrist. I suggested some cost cutting measured he could do if was short on cash, like downscale his Mercedes or staying in to cook meals instead of eating out all the time or even cut back on the blackberry’s for his children
He looked at me as if I was mad and said "I’m broke not poor"
That really says it all
The PPM gave that raise to the civil servants last year as a ploy to get votes. Once again, it is the PPM who with their crazy increase in the amount of civil servants and their out of control spending is what put Cayman in the state of shambles it is in. You can put this blame squarely on them with their arrogance and mis-management. Why should the civil servants pay for the PPM’s mistakes? We all have to live like everyone else and the salaries are lower than in the private sector anyway. The fact that cs do not pay pension or health almost balances things out, but not quite. Thanks PPM for making civil servants now the target of the private sector. You all should hang you head in shame.
To Anonymous Tue.11:26.Yes the PPm admin gave that cost of living adjustment to bring salaries a little closer to the actual increase in the cost of living over the previous years .However the cost of living had increased by a lot more than this so the civil servants still came up short.In other words ;although the cost of living went up by something like 5.8% civil servants received 3.2%.and this has been the practice for several years,so PPM ended up giving increases to civil servants that the UDP should have paid.It seems that every time Mac gets in there is an attack on civil servants pay or benefits.Civil servants have been making sacrifices long before today.Yet they are expected to compete with the private sector.Perhaps to prove that civil servants are overpaid ,I challenge those in the private sector who feel this way to quit their job for a similar one in the public sector.This should not be a hard decision ,after all the pay and benefits are so much better in the public sector.Also you would not expect to be paid for overtime as this is so unnecessary.Somehow I don’t think you are willing to make this move and match your actions to your words.
Your account could be applied across many of the "I’m broke" moanersin the entire community not just in the CS. Many persons cannot see that much of their "brokeness" is their own doing. They indulged in ‘wants’ by using debt to provide it, instead of sticking with their ‘needs’. I feel that this attitude has consumed much of our society. Unfortunately it is easier to blame someone else and moan about their situation. Hopefully the current economic changes will wake them all up. It is not too late to knuckle down and make changes, but it will be hard.
Remember the slogan about transparency and the civil service promise that their new PFM Law would bring more accountability efficiency and transparency! What a failure – just look at the Miller repeort recommendations. "Improve budget intergrity" Improve transparency" ;improve efficiency’etc.
Tue 14:12: That’s not the fault of the Law but the people (FS and his useless staff) who were too lazy to implement it. If you give a workman a tool – a new well designed one to save money – and he can’t or refuses to use it, you end up with what we have now. Our workmen (FS and Finance chief officers) are on $140,000 plus a year but have done nothing to account for money spent; meanwhile the finance chief officer earns an MBA of NO use to her job.Anything wrong here?
Yo Uncivil Servant…Your name says it all
so does yours…
Ok, CICSA, let’s not make any reductions now and when the CS’ pay-cheques start to bounce in 5 months we’ll have another look.
Unfortunately, the Civil Service is full of administrators who have no real expertise other than shuffling papers around and sending emails. This is the result of an extremely poor scholarship programme in which all the emphasis is on these non-jobs.
I wonder what the percentage breakdown is between caymanians who can actually do things like doctors, electrical and mechanical engineers, architects, construction experts, agriculture, marine science, health and fitness, information technology etc. and those that contribute bureacracy?
Instead our graduates are accountants, lawyers, business administrators, bankers, psychologists, insurance brokers and other jobs that feed off the endeavour or misfortune of others.
Our boards are stuffed full of these people as they parade around their worthless qualifications and very few of them actually have any technical knowledge on the boards that they serve.
The seeds of this demise have been sown over the last 30 years. Can we have some proper scholarships please and start developing the next generation of competent caymanians?
It’s not that the scholarships aren’t available. The lady over there will hand out one to anyone who applies. It’s the applicants who have "business" engrained in them as youngters.
Either way, other than the large portion who should receive scholarships and return with no degree or knowledge, it’s notthose who go off to study who are in the wrong. It is those who as long as they prove they can show up to work, someone in a governmental department somewhere will hire them. It is those who come out of highschool with no experience, knowledge or grasp for what it’s like to really work for your money and those who do, as you said just shuffle paper around and add to the bureacracy that are the problem. Those who make it so far to become the graduates you named should be commended as they fulfilled their goals. These ‘paper-shufflers’ on the other hand have no such intentions to go this far.
There’s problems with the scholarship system that’s for sure but your implications are confusing.
Surely Duncan Taylor trumps CICSA!!! This situation might just be the new Governor’s first true test because it is painfully clear that CICSA is absolutely clueless as to the dire situation that the COUNTRY is in. It is no longer about a choice it is a must!!!!
Excerpt from Turks & Caicos Sun Newspaper in regards to their recent pay cut announcement:
Capes said the cuts will take effect, for wage earners on 16 April and, for salaried staff at the end of the month.
“By providing over 5 and 7 weeks’ notice respectively, I hope this will give you time to adjust your personal finances as necessary.
I suggest we get lay off 1/2 the CS and keep the qualified hard working individuals. If they don’t work hard enough, hire someone who does. I drive by fosters airport every morning to watch goverment staff sitting down on the side of the road eatting there breakfast while on the clock.. some people work hard… others act!.
Also i am tired of the finger pointing…UDP this PPM that… someone needs to step up to the plate and swing. Or else Cayman is going to turn into Jam.
To Texan Tue 08:22 Of course you knew exactly what time they clocked in ,what time they were entitled to breaks ,in fact you knew the terms of their contracts.If you dont then you should not assume.After all since I don’t know you ,I am free to assume that when you were passing Fosters ,you were not up to anything good,maybe you were even dodging work.
Well said #3576. I am sure there are many hard working civil servants. The 1200 who joined in the past six years did clog up the system and it does need to be streamlined. It will be tough and harsh and here it comes….but save for a rainy day and watch your pennies and maybe when we come out of this hard times we will have learned our lesson.
Both political parties are to blame! Come on…."Save for a rainy day"….Did we even THINK about that after IVAN just five short years ago? STOP trying to get re-elected and try to be remembered for the right direction you led.
If you need a new school, then save for it, not borrow. Fundraise for it, not borrow.
Back to basic checkbook economics….do not spend it unless you have it!!!
No more borrowing, period!
I am an Administrative Assistant on a mere $70,000 plus health care and other sizeable benefits. I believe I am entitled to a salary which pays a mortgage, allows both my children to attend private education and annual trips to Disneyworld. How dare anyone interfere with my entitlement.
That is a MUCH bigger salary than a comparable job would make in the private sector. Perhaps you have posted this "tongue in cheek" but I doubt it. Get real…..
I hope this is a joke.
I am a senior admin assistant in the private sector and I don’t make that much. Plus I pay towards health, pension & disability. So if this isn’t a joke – shut the hell up and stop moaning.
Rubbish like this doesn’t help. I use myself as an example here but my situation is common. I have a specialist skill required by organisations in the private and public sector. I was recruited from the private sector in the UK (where yes, i got private health insurance paid by my employer). I was well paid in the UK and could command a good wage if I went back. I am paid less than 70,000 here and to suggest that Administrative Assistants are paid such an amount is plain ignorant. Oh and even if I was paid 70k, by the time I paid rent and school fees I certainly wouldn’y have enough to pay for holidays to Disney Land. Most Caymanians I know are shocked when they realise how much I have to pay for school fees
On a mere $70,000 and you are only an Administrative Assistant, I need to get a job doing that.
Does any other Admin. Assistant make so much?
How much more can someone make, I mean the responsibility of an Admin. Asst. must be great, NOT!! I’m scared to see what your supervisor makes, and their supervisor!!!!
Definately overpaid, prime example of the salary cut thats needed.
TO: 03/16/2010 – 14:42
My take is that Sybil wrote the original post only to be sarcastic and make a point. As far as responsibilities of an Admin. Asst. – quite often directors go off fishing or something and the real workload is placed on the assistant’s desk. When it is complete, the director picks it up and hands it to his / her authorities……… taking complete credit for the work. The assistant is often the one who is silently run the show!! This is sadly true in many workplaces – not specifically the civil service.
To Sybil Suirvant Tue.08:01..Of course you are not a civil servant and you are just being sarcastic and trying to stir up a little controversy at the same time.Please try to be more positive.
I am an Administrative Assistant
LOL watch out Sybil! I was here longer than you!!! I have to get me a new car every year!!!
To Sybil Suirvant:
I’m an Administrative Assistant for government and I don’t even make half of that so I know this is just an outright lie to cause trouble. I have to borrow money continuosly to pay my bills.
Disney World? I can’t even afford a ticket to go to one of the other islands in the Cayman Islands.
"The role that the Public Management and Finance Law plays in the current situation". Fair enough – it’s a useful scapegoat for increased expenditure and it’s hated by many civil servants because it gave them more work to do to make them more accountable for the public funds they spend. But I hope James and his crew will also look at the effects of the increased teachers for the expanding school population, the increased number of cops demanded by Kernohan and his successors (including Baines as soon as he got here), the increased number of immigration officers (30 I believe) requested by Franz to cope with the demands of the (then) new Immigration Law, the increased number of civil servants being hired for the constitutional secretariat, an Elections Office staffed year round for something happening every 4 years, helicopter pilots and maintenance crew, the creation of the Protocol Office, the public relations officers in the ministries (even the Chief Justice has one!) which GIS is supposed to handle, a new Financial Chief Officer in Mac’s ministry when Ken is still there as well as the Chief Officer of Finance Portfolio etc etc etc. None -repeat NONE- of these were brought about by the Public Management and Finance Law but, James, add up the salary, health and pensions costs of these posts.
Finally, just yesterday the press reported Kearney Gomez as saying the new law covering rents etc couldn’t go into force because it required new civil servants to be recruited to implement it. There you have it, right there! We all want this and that from Government and then complain when people have to be hired to provide the services.
"Feedback regarding salary cuts revealed that many public sector workers could not to cope with the proposed pay cuts, the association said"
Seems CS themselves need to learn to live within their means too. No wonder the Government is in such a mess and unable to work within its means if individual CS can’t live within their means.
During the recession in 1991 the locally owned company I worked for gathered all the employees together and laid out the cold hard truth. We could all take a 10% paycut or some employees would have to be let go. The cuts were made from the owner to the janitor. That is what the Civil Service needs to do.
Actually this might just be the best news we have heard so far.
You see the CS just doesn’t get it. CIG has but only 2 real options when it comes to staffing and both can achieve fundamentally the same objective.
1) Lower CS pay to meet a certain figure and each CS employee can still do the exact same amount of work they have been doing for years.
2) Cut Staff in the CIG and then make 1 person do 2 persons work. Then those who are cut can find work elsewhere if there is work to be found.
I think CS has just closed option #1 so here we go at #2. Here is where to start.
– Centralise all functions that can be centralised.
– Use your purchasing power across all CIG to lower cost of supplies which would mean centralised Stores. If CIG orders as 1 unit they can see significant savings across many items by ordering in bulk and if necessary from the US direct.
I personally believe CSA is doing a great dis-service to their members. I feel when 200-400 of their staff are cut loose they will finally get it. Right now I think they feel their are invincible and can walk through this recession without any affects on them.
My understanding is that the CS were all given a form to fill in by their ‘union’ and that form asked very leading questions. So its not surprising when you are asked "are you living from pay packet to pay packet each month" (or something along those lines), that when faced with and trying to fight cuts to salaries and benefits, that so many civil servants responded "Yes" to this question?
When there is no money at all to pay them, and that day is FAST aproaching, maybe then they will get the message?
Nothing better the focus the mind that no salary showing up at all.
Why should Civil Servants be asked/made to pay for the excessive ‘frills’ of the present Government i.e. chauffeur/bodyguard driven government vehicles, chef, hotel acommodations in one’s own residential district …?
I agree and disagree with you.
I agree that we need to cut those frills but let’s be honest. All the frills will not equal 62 million dollars. BUT yes we need get rid of all the premiers toys first and he should do this quickly to show his willingness to do what is necessary.
BUT the cuts have to come. This is where I disagree with you. I think you feel that we should do those and not touch CS but in fact CS needs to be reduced 1 way or another. I think you need to decide whether you want people in teh CS loosing jobs or if you would prefer to take a cut in your salary. That is what you face because by hook or by crook the CIG needs to lowers its payroll expenses and you need to decide. It very well could be you that gets the axe. How would you feel then??
You blame the present government instead of blaming the PPM for leaving this country in the current sad state. You also forget that it was the PPM who thought up of those nice perks for the Premier’s office thinking that Kurt would get to enjoy them. Now because it’s Mr. Bush who enjoys them you complain. Blame Kurt and his PPM arrogant mismanagers! Speak the truth for goodness sake!
Those people are also Civil Servants. More of the same nonsense.
CICSA is being so greedy. We need far MORE action against our bloated civil service costs, not less.
Civil servants by their nature pay no stamp duty, no licensing fees, no government charges, no permits or taxes of any kind. Civil Servant salaries are entirely paid by productive private businesses and individuals who fund the government. When a civil servant does pay government duty, taxes or fees, they are merely giving back some portion of the salary the people of Cayman paid them. When Civil Servants spend money in the local economy, they are merely redistributinng the government’s money to other people and businesses here. We need to strip away that portion of the Civil Service which is redundant, unproductive and unnecessary. We all know who these people are. We need to trim those away that do not pull their weight. Junior and senior people must go. It is well known business rule of thumb that an employee will cost an employer the equivalent of their salary in benefits, expenses and activities. If you pay someone $36,000 a year, you are really paying them $72,000 by the time they rack up bills on your behalf, do your work for you. Phone bills, courier charges, utilities, gas etc. all add up over time. Cutting the salaries of everyone does not address the benefit and business expense problem. Shrinking the Civil Service, to right-size it to our economy’s size is the only way we are going to solve the problems we face. Our government is too big for its people. This is a problem globally and it will come to a head everywhere in the next few years. We are a small island economy without the ability to print more money and inflate our problems away, so it is coming to a head here now. The sooner we deal with this issue the healthier our government will be in the future. This problem is not getting better with age.
LIES!
"Civil servants by their nature pay no stamp duty, no licensing fees, no government charges, no permits or taxes of any kind. "
"When a civil servant does pay government duty, taxes or fees, they are merely giving back some portion of the salary the people of Cayman paid them."
As a Civil Servant (off on approved vacation today), please tell me how I can get these perks!
This is an outright lie, the average civil servant does not get these perks in any way, shape or form.
The issue with Civil Servants is not what we will have to sacrifice, but the extraordinary spending within the CS that must be cut first, and then if there still needs to be cut, each of us average civil servants are willing to chip in.
It’s not a perk or a lie. If you are a civil servant all your salary comes "from government" which is funded by private sector employees. If you are civil servant making 50k a year and you pay 10k in stamp duty over the course of the year the 40k you are left with "still came from the private sector" … simple sandbox economic principles.
"Civil servants by their nature pay no stamp duty, no licensing fees, no government charges, no permits or taxes of any kind".
This is of course false. Civil servants pay stamp duties and import duties etc. same as everyone else.
The poster above was merely stating an economic fact. That Civil Servants "by their nature" pay no tax. They don’t. All of the civil servants salaries come from the private sector who fund government. When a civil servant pays a tax they are merely "giving back" some of the money government paid them. Every dollar a civil servant takes home is a drain on the public sectorthat fuels government. This is simple economics kids.
Yes we need to cut off all those ex politicians who are collecting benefits who frankly do not need it and can afford it Since we are in crisis and everybody is having to take cuts ?
Lazy, rude and ignorant? That’s a bit harsh. They have a management problem; that have too many of them. All of the managers thinks that someone else is doing the work. So nothing gets done and we get poor customer service and no accounting for their performance. Actually, no audited finances at all.
Surely they must understand that if revenues are down by 30%, then there is at least 30% less work so 30% of them are doing nothing. I suppose that it is possible that 30% are actually doing the work and 70% are doing nothing. Either way, 30% of them have got to go. Premier Bush must already know this and he is just buying time with this salary reduction idea.
The smart qualified Caymanian CS should defend their income by entering the private sector. Take over some of those over 20K work permits that are in the newspaper everyday and become a key employee.
To Anonymous Tue 06:18 Whenever the day comes and a Caymanian is designated as a key employee please let us know .Of course it will never happen,after all this is reserved for employers who want to keep their expat workers here longer than 7 years In other words the boss says "My company just can’t survive without this person" Note it’s not the job that is so necessary,it is the worker.To make this work for Caymanians would require the emphasis to be shifted from the employee to the job.ie the designation would be changed to key job or position rather than key employee.
*coughs*
You can’t get key status either way if you are a Caymanian. The Immigration Law does not apply to your work here as you are a national. You don’t have to jump through all those hoops. All you have to do is work hard, be productive, achieve results, and try to make a difference in the workplace. Any company would prefer to promote a talented Caymanian with these attributes rather than pay thousands for an ex pat with those attributes to come here and in time, obtain key status.
I take a contrary position to you on the question of key personnel however. Having key job roles would merely open up the gates to more suitably qualified ex pats as there are multiple firms employing ex pats in these key positions/roles. The difference with key persons is the system ensures each and every person is vetted individually rather than automatically because they perform a particular role.
This is the last round.
Contestants:
For the fabulous prizes now offered by our sponsor:
Including!!!
Selling Assets!! Direct Taxation!! Property Taxes!! and Increased fees!!
Roar Clap Clap
Quiet please
Ready contestants??
The Question is:
A. Does the Government run the Civil Service?
B. Does the Civil Service run the Government?
No hints from the audience
tick tick tick tick
Gong!!!
The correct answer is…..
They just don’t get it do they?
Let us reflect, who let the salaries and benefits get out of hand in the first place?
PPM.
They are the reason we are up sh**t creek right now.
Lets face it, they ran us into the ground and thankfully the UDP are in and trying to eradicate all the millions of problems PPM left behind.
Now I know there is no point in stressing about that fact now because what is done is done. But I always ask this question and no-one seems to be able to answer…What, if the PPM had got back in this election, would they have done??? huh? what was their plan, all you PPM supporters better wakeup, we damn well lucked out by getting the UDP government back in.
not playing politics, but its a real shame the PPM brought this hardship on us. And I dont want to hear about – oh, it was the downturn in the economy! Rubbish those building should never have been built.
Why is the civil service not trying to do their part? The country is in real problems that require everyone making a small sacrifice.
Wow, what a surprise.
Just take a look at what the Miller Report says about this sorry bunch of pampered whiners who are just about to ruin this country.
I am a member of the civil service and I find it appalling that during the previous PPM admistration that 1,200….yes…1,200 employees joined the ranks and added almost $80m dollar year in our total costs. Coincidentally, that is the amount that we are short now.
I am curious as to where the civil service management was at this time. When some of us spoke up against the spending we were ridiculed and told to be quiet. The worst part is that some of them that joined are receiving salaries that would make the private sector green with envy…yet…those of us who toiled long and hard are being treated like we are yesterday’s newspaper.
Mr. Bush. Bring the cuts on. I dont care. I love my country more than I love to go shopping in Miami for a weekend. I dont have a lifestyle that makes me live paycheck to paycheck. If I cant afford it; I dont buy it.
Sell the buildings. We cant afford them. If it was a house or a car, the bank would have taken it already. Why should we be any different?
God help us.
Re "I am a member of the civil service". Good for you – that’s the right attitude. The people who spoke about about the terrible new management system were ridiculed. the ones who brought it in should hang their heads, they were told it would not work if they had listened the country would not be this $80 million short.
Tue 13:45: Rather than just make a "when did you stop beating your wife" (hope you understand this allusion) statement about the "terrible new management system", could you explain briefly with empirically demonstrable points how it is so terrible and, in particular, what was so strong about the last "management system". It would help if you could describe for us what the last civil service "management system" was and how it worked….presumably very efficiently. Could you also demonstrate – not just with an unsupported statement in a blog but with a closely reasoned argument based on the budget and government expenditure by both the civil service and statutory authorities -how government ended up with the $80 million deficit you refer to?
Ah, I see, no, I thought you couldn’t. Then sit your backside down.
Mr. Anonymous makes sense.
I hope he keeps his job we need more CS just like him.
time for the gov to face down the civil service once and for all…. they obviously have no clue about economic reality
“if and only if those options include the ability to choose a health care provider”, and if it was comparable to those in the private sector.
^ This in itself is not comparable to the private sector who operate ‘group plans’ and if you dare to try and opt out god help you… they (your employer) might lose their ‘group’ discount… so you’re stuck with their choice… if you want to keep your job.
The number of misconceptions the CS has about the private sector, and their attitude generally to this whole debacle, beggars belief.
NOW I remember why I voted for this slate….I feel that Bush and Co. are working for us and the good of the country…Not easy, but they are definitely working hard on our behalf…Let’s all get behind them.
I am pleased to hear that the cut in civil servant’s pay is still on the agenda. I have another idea as well. Why doesn’t the government approach private enterprise for suggestions and when they suggest that they could reduce their employee’s pay by 10% across the board (it doesn’t matter what their contract says) and donate the money to the government, surely those who thought it was OK for the civil servants will give it their full support.
The private sector has already made their cuts, back in late 2008 when anyone with half a brain could see where the global economy was headed!!! Most, if not all private eneterprises have made the difficult decisions to reduce their workforce, freeze salaries, eliminate bonuses, cut back on discretionary spending, etc, etc…. Again, this was done back in 2008!
Here we are in late March 2010 and the overbloated CS has done nothing but throw roadblocks at any and every suggestion at reducing expenditures. The best they can come up with is agree to roll back their increase? Wow! Why did they get an increase in the first place?!!
Excellent idea……….. but across the board would not work for those earning as little as 3 or 4 dollars and hour. Perhaps it could be across the board for anyone making as much or more than the LOWEST paid civil servant… let’s do the math. Hmmmmm…. perhaps there are a couple of people that qualify – okay lets do it!!! They will gladly contribute I am sure!!!
REPLY TO:
I am pleased to hear that the cut in civil servant’s pay is still on the agenda. I have another idea as well. Why doesn’t the government approach private enterprise for suggestions and when they suggest that they could reduce their employee’s pay by 10% across the board (it doesn’t matter what their contract says) and donate the money to the government, surely those who thought it was OK for the civil servants will give it their full support.
UMMMMM DUHHHHHHH we are already taking paycuts since 1997 paying our pensions and health insurance which calculate to excatly a 9.7% deduction from my paycheque between the 2. SURE! why not give us an additional 10% pay cut so that the majestci Civil Service wont have to endure teh hardships that we do
*cough*
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt already for 2 years running. You are only just starting to feel our pain. I’ll get some more T-shirts printed up.
Walk good.
*rolls eyes and strolls out*
what an attitude , nowonder the poor service. I can generalise it as there are many good ones , who go the extra mile to do their job. A third of them are a waste of time and end up bringing a bad name to the service. It is thes who need to go.
It is no point trying to cover up for the interests of this small group.They will take the country down with them. A smaller civil service will manage their time better and end up providing a good service for the good of this country. That was the way it was years ago and it was a proud feeling to say one worked for the government. The public did not complain as they got good value and service.
The plan that the Civil Service Association has put forth as a compromise seems very reasonable, much more reasonable than the cuts announced last week. An across-the-board cut of 3.2% for 3 months will allow for all civil servants to share the pain equally yet not be of such an immense consequence that it will mean persons will lose their house. With three months warning, the civil servants can then take a 4% paycut through unpaid leave. This is much more fair than just cutting salaries with nothing in return.
Now, can the compromise be accepted quickly so that we can get on with something else!
The CS proposal is useless to say the least – in the long run it does absolutely nothing to help relieve the country’s financial burden. Its an Indian gift – they give with the one hand and try to take back with the other. It’s like trying to patch a hole in the roof with tissue paper.
Well done to the Civil Service again. They are paid on average substantially more than most, for arguably a lotless output or effort, and yet even with the country seeking ways to balance the books, they still intend having their cake and eating it too. They have no shame. Or national pride.
In a commercial enterprise, cuts would have been made to staff numbers and to remuneration/perks. But civil service regard their employment as a sacred cow, unable to be touched.
Far from offering those people a discount on supermarkets and other expenses, they should be charged more for thier stubborn-ness.
What’s the point of having cake if you can’t eat it?
What’s the point of having cake if you can’t eat it?
Oh my god, imagine working in the private sector for just a moment!! We do not get to dictate to our boss what we want, quite the opposite….this is what we are offering you, if you don’t want it leave!!! no, no, it may cause hardships to my family the civil servants say. oh well then, we can’t have that. how about we just lay off half of you and then it will be a real hardship with no job at all….god they make me mad. lazy, rude, and ignorant, the whole lot of ’em.
Wow!! Do you know every civil servant?? How in the world can YOU be so rude? I don’t think you have any right to call over 6000 people lazy, rude and ignorant. Maybe you had better take a look in the mirror!
I am a civil servant who has never had any contact with the Civil Service Association. I am neither lazy, rude, or ignorant. I have a degree, I work my ass off for the Cayman Islands government and I pride myself on being efficent in the service I provide to the public and the manner in which I treat my subordinates, co-workers, and supervisors.
Do not label me. I am a human being who has chosen a different career path than you.
Yes, some of the people I work with are lazy and would be fired if they worked in the private sector or if they were not protected in their post because they are a Caymanian.
Your comment assumes that the civil servants are all the same. We are not, just as not all the persons working in the private sector are as ignorant about this subject as you are.
You’re absolutely right. In other countries its illegal to employ someone without giving them written terms of contract and job description within the first few weeks/months. The government is doing you (and others in your position) a disservice.
I admire your honesty. Those lazy civil servants you describe are the ones who are costing the country (and civil service reputation) dearly. They need to have their contracts terminated as I am sure performance (or lack of it) must be a legitimate part of their contract which can be acted upon legally.
"Lazy rude and ignorant- the whole lot of ’em."
Well you prove your own laziness by not thinking through your comment properly.
Extremely rude of you to right off an entire group of people and cast aspersions at the characters of many good people, some of whom you could one day depend on for your life.
And even more ignorant to think that you know everything about everyone working in the public sector.
Surely you must have had a point you were trying to make?
i think u’re missing the point of a union. oh my god….jeez settle down. i’m quite sure they don’t make u mad enough to actually do something more than just type…protest for a referendum on pay i mean somethign..
It is like this around the world – mostly in small communities that have had it too good for too long. It is not easy to take candy from a baby you know. Perhaps the mortgage may have to be re-financed….. the second car sold…. one less vacation weekend away this year…. maybe beer instead of blue label scotch on occasion…. Honestly, it won’t hurt that much after the crying stops and the acceptance and adjustments are made.
Dear Oh my God,
Sounds like your prettty irrate, and I don’t blame you. I work for the civil service (lower scale) and maybe one of the few that will welcome a pay cut if it is going to help the economy. However you have to look at the big picture here. Why is the CS being held pesponsible to pay back the debt, there are many more ways to help the economy i.e.
Sell Cayman Airways (keep the name if you wish)
Sell Turtle Farm
Stop sending millions off island
Stop Government spending overseas!!
Government SHOULD spend at home if the product is available and at a fair price. Or at least give companies a chance to quote.
CINICO rates are crazy. Let other Insurance companies bid for the coverage.
Give CS employees the choice of choosing what doctor or hospital they want to visit. Those that elect this will have to pay their share of contributions.
And I am sure the list go’s on and on and on and on………………………………..
If you’re so "fed" up with working in the private sector why don’t you leave? What good are you really doing by coming onto this website just to state your level of frustration.???
Also, how ignorant of YOU to class every single civil servant as "…lazy, rude and ignorant"
If you can’t already tell, I am a civil servant. I work hard and get paid nothing but I love what I do, and I most certainly can’t dictate to my boss or employer what I want.
It is people like you that need to leave this island. Seriously, your negative attitude and your lack of education i.e ignorance, is astonishing.
What we need on our island now from everyone is support, not what you are offering.
Agreed.
My boss didn’t ask me if I fancied a pay cut. He just told me I was getting one, if I don’t like it go and work, get lost!