Baines addressing cop skills
(CNS): From basic literacy skills to the handling of evidence for court cases, the police commissioner says that he is currently doing all he can to train officers and professionalise the RCIPS. Over the course of the last week David Baines has admitted that there have been failings in the service, from the way police deal with the public to the way they deal with crime scenes. He said officers are now attending UCCI to improve basic literacy skills and to advance their academic qualifications, while others are about to enter exchange programmes with other police forces to gain experience overseas, and some younger promising officers are being placed on specialist acceleration programmes. (Photo Dennie WarrenJr)
Baines has said that, as commissioner, it is his duty to stabilise and professionalise the force, and having identified the areas where the RCIPS has failed the community, he is now focusing on plugging the gaps through training as well as recruiting skilled officers. He said the goal was to improve public access to the police and the competence levels of all officers.
Speaking to the people of West Bay last night (Monday 23 August) at the third public meeting hosted by the RCIPS and government ministers, and in a district which has had more than its fair share of violent crime, Baines said he was making the RCIPS fit for purpose. He told the audience that by meeting with the people of each district he could listen to their concerns and hear what they want and expect from the RCIPS and explain to them what he has been doing to improve things.
He said when he took office there had been a “ragged three year period” where there was no leadership and an exodus from the service of a number of experienced officers.
Of the various complaints that the RCIPS has received, the commissioner said people have complained that front line officers are not professional when they interact with the public,that they lack basic skills and do not appear to be very intelligent when taking statements or information from the public. As a result, he said, the RCIPS has partnered with UCCI to officer basic literacy class as well as other academic courses for officers serving in the force. He also pointed to the new training schemes which will accelerate young promising Caymanian officers through the ranks more quickly.
The commissioner revealed that some senior officers would be going to the UK on exchange programmes in larger cities to help address some of the skills gaps in detection and investigation, intelligence gathering and covert operations. Baines noted that the 14 officers that had come to the Cayman Islands for a short term temporary period during the spike of murders earlier in the year had a positive influence on local officers, so he wanted to continue that by sending RCIPS staff to work alongside other police officers in the UK and gain valuable on the job training.
He said it was impossible for Caymanian officers to climb the ranks of the police force if they have not had the opportunity to learn and experience certain aspects of modern policing. He said he wanted to dispel the idea that the best police officers come from outside but, he said, Caymanian officers had to train overseas in larger services to gain the necessary experience to help them here.
CID and investigators are also being trained to improve detection and evidence handling. Baines explained that when local officers put together a serious case such as a murder, when they go to court they will be facing the most experience Queen’s Counsel for the defence and this means RCIPS officers have to be professional and cannot afford to have those lawyers undermine the case. “People say Cayman is small but we still need to be 21st century.”
Training would play a part, Baines told the people, in putting things right where the service has got things wrong in the past. He said the service could not afford to be taken by surprise in thecourt because of the way evidence had been gathered or to be accused of not handling exhibits properly, as has been suggested in the past. “We are starting to raise the professionalism in this area,” he said. “We need to get it right and get it right first time and every time.”
Having identified the failings, the top cop said the goal was to prevent them from happening in future. He’d hoped the mistakes would become fewer and fewer in investigations until they are eventually a thing of the past.
As a district that has persistently complained about the lack of Caymanian officers policing their community, during the evening a number of residents told the commissioner that in the last few months, since the change of management at the West Bay station, they had seen an improvement in police presence. A number said they were very happy to see a West Bayer was now second in command at the station as the community knew and trusted Brad Ebanks.
Category: Headline News
OK, generalizations be damned. Mr Baines comes from a country where the educational standards for all police officers are high?
I’m sorry but Mr Baines actually comes from a country where a large number of police personnel talk as if they’ve swallowed the official "police gobbledegook dictionary". It’s a weirdly British police trait which, in an attempt to sound professional, usually results in extremely inarticulate, broken and convoluted English. Not really a mark of intelligence, but hey, why use one word when fifty will suffice?
Standards of education in Britain have been falling for decades, so it’s probably not fair to say that poor social skills, poor vocabulary and written communication abilities and complete lack of common sense are in any way exclusive to police officers. Many journalists can’t even master their own language nowadays and so-called graduates are often miserably inept with even the most basic mathematical and grammatical concepts and dealing with real life is often quite beyond many of them.
This is what happens when you dumb down a population, encourage the abdication of personal responsibility, and encourage people to let the state wipe their ass for them at every turn.
For what it’s worth, I think that importing UK police to a place such as Cayman is often going to be problematical as the requirements for the job vary considerably and trying to translate experience of an officer from some of the UK’s inner cities to the small town, tight knit community of an island, particularly if the officer isn’t the brightest bulb in the box and tries to police the same way as he has been trained in his own country, is just going to engender mistrust and dislike of the force by the people who they are meant to serve.
Cynically, to answer an earlier commentators question I would say the main attraction for expat officers is the climate and geography as it is for most of us who hail from cold, damp, north American and northern European climes and for the Brits, anything to get out of that miserable hole is going to be a bonus.
Oh, and playing devil’s advocate on a slightly related subject, the following link will enlighten many as to how the UK’s highly trained officers cope with firearms and why Mr Baines is probably right to be concerned about arming the police đŸ˜‰
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/835270-police-shot-cow-12-times-firearm-blunders-figures-reveal
Hey ho!
The reason for having cops from somewhere other than cayman or jamaica is to bring up the standard of service and have people that are non-bias. Guys that wont go "oh that me cosin man let him pass on the weapons/ drug charge" . The fact that the only cops that truly need the extra schooling are from jamaica and cayman must prove somthing to the guys upstairs. You dont want uneducated people carrying firearms that is just common sense. And this is coming from a Caymanian. The only people who get pissed at higher qualified people going above them in rank are the ones who are not educated enough to realise the reasoning.
Just another example of why the CI force is nothing like the UK force, despite everyone bemoaning the UK system. No PACE, no accountability, no proper structure or training, and now no literacy, and I suspect from many of their dealings with the public, no idea how to interact with the community let alone no problem-solving abilities.
At least in the UK they do test candidates for some literacy, math and problem-solving before admitting them into the force:
http://www.ehow.co.uk/list_6696243_qualifications-become-police-officer-england_.html
People stop complaining. First you complained about there are no Caymanian police or very little so he said that he would educate them. Now you all knew that some of them didn’t have proper qualifications.
We all know how Cayman works. People are hired because they belong to so and so. They failed the test then mama calls the politicians about how them bad foreigners won’t give her boy a chance and viola we have the situation we have now. In addition, they need to keep up their studies. Everyone needs to do that. We can’t get a degree from 1992 and think that is it.
While he’s at it, Mr. Baines, can take those cell phones from them officers as this is probably the reason why some of they have had car accidents. Half the time you can see the officers just chatting away, not paying attention to their driving or ignoring drivers who commit offences such as ignoring red stop lights or speeding. I have seen it with my own two eyes. I have also seen these guys shopping at stores while on duty. I can understand eating at a restaurant for dinner or lunch but shopping? We really need to clean up shop and anyone who thinks they can get a work permit to come here, make good money and not doing the work is very wrong. I know their paying isn’t that great, but surely it is not good where they come from either or they wouldn’t be here. Please, no tolerance for locals either. They should be treated no differently!
What next. Did you not hear too much change too quickly is not good. Also pleasing everybody makes you look like a fool.
Question what do they do when it’s raining. You need to sensitize yourself to this culture and know that we do have some individuals here that we love to death but we would not make them CEO’s. Stop listening to everything you hear you need to be able to discren for yourself and no what is worth acting on.
BTW – will you be removing the a/c from your trailblazer as well and all the other police cars. Commish you too are an officer and are considered always on duty so take the a/c from your car and remain vigilant as you drive around.
LMAO – this man is so impulsive I am glad he does not carry a gun
What makes you think that he is not included in the select few RCIP officers who carry a gun?
well… he’s English…that would be the equivelent of seeing a Muslim carrying a ham sandwich…
Sorry to burst your bubble, but many English officers carry firearms, they just think that YOU and I are not elite enough to have one.
Commissioner Baines is very aware of the Caymanian Public perception of himself. He intend this to be a good one.It is clear form his many speeches up and down the Caymanian circuit that his good public image is very important.He wants the public and the Government to have confidence in his ability as Chief of the RCIP. I have no doubt that he wants the RCIP to be on top of crime. We all want this too.However he must be careful in his bid to achieve this goal he does not further decrease the morale of his officers.Cayman is a very hot place in the summer months. Don’t you think removing the ac units from police squad cars is a bit "over kill?" Sometimes summer temperatures are upwards of 98 degrees fh.Sometimes the weather is rainy(esp. hurricanes and nor’ westers) for long periods.How do you expect your officers to operate with the windows down. Should they wind them up when it is raining? How safe will this be? They are expected to wear bullet proof vests which makes the heat more unbearable. Do you subscribe to the idea that an uncomfortable officer will do a better job? I don’t. This is not to say that police officers should not stop and interact with the public.We want to see more of this. We also don’t want them to be involved in accidents because of draconian and inhumane working conditions. As one of the poster wrote about unhealthy conditions atCentral station, what is happening with West Bay police Station? This was condemed after Hurricane Ivan and was supposed to have been rebuilt. Has this been done yet? There is an outcry about the deterioration in the new shift system. If officers are burnt out because they don’t have sufficient rest, this is not good for the public either.I am sure you don’t want the high turn over rate that prevail in the mid 2000s. Central station has been the same for over 35 years since that time the population of Cayman has more than double. You are handling more prisoner, more complaints, more evidence with the same facilities. The officers have to cope with these. You need to address the overall welfare not just the Police cars. All hands need to be on deck, ie your senior commanders and arrive at situation that will benefit the men and women of the RCIP,and the public. Reasonable working conditions, good facilities, will boost morale,officers will perform better and the public will get better service. The stick is good but sometimes a carrot or two work woners.
maybe ezzard miller should be asked to comment on this….
this morning he was saying the only hope for the tourist industry was to use caymanian employees…..
he also said recently that cruise shippers would not want to stay overnight in cayman because ‘they can do everything that cayman has in a couple of hours’…..
It’s an outright shame that this type of a persons are what and who the GOVERNMENT expect to carry out the law. Is it any wonder murders and thieves do they mischief at will. I know of a young CAYMANIAN, number of years in theUS
time long’ga dan rope, yah naw c nut’n yet m’on, teh so’ooon com !
This is not at all surprising – it is my understanding that most of the Police Force only joined to avoid rollover.
I just hope that we are not paying for expat police to go back to school to learn to read and write. Some of the officers I have seen on tv who can hardly put a sentence together do not appear to be Caymanian. I would have thought that an officer would have to have at least 5 ‘O’ levels or equivalent and should undergo (and pass) a basic intelligence test. this is a joke. No wonder the crime is so high. Who has been responsible for hiring these officers and why is that person not held accountable?
Oh how I can only laugh. So the cops can read and write huh?
As an officer with 8 A levels (gained in the UK) who applied to the RCIPS earlier this year and was not even invited for an interview I suspected that the employees of the service were somewhat extra special.
But now I suspect either;
a) I was overqualified
b) No one could understand the vernacular used on my resume, thus it was binned!
I would bin the application from anyone who claimed to have 8 Advanced (A) levels too whatever the job. It has, at best, got ‘nutter’ written all over it, possibly worse.
I see I have struck a nerve with the uneducated few, or in this case many!
I guess you’ve never heard of furthering your education for pleasure?
I have personally come across two people who have done the extra A-levels and how different they are.
You seem to think you come across to the rest of us as clever. However you only come across as jealous anddisingenious. Its not uncommon at all in the UK for people to further their education and obtain further A levels after obtaining usually 3-4 at school/college. Surprisingly, the two people you have met with the ‘extra A levels’ are not the only two people in the world as such. There are plenty in England with 8-10 A levels it is nothing uncommon, even though I suspect it is very rare here in Cayman.
Whilst I agree that there are plenty of people who go on to get higher education, there is also a common phenomenon known as the "Professional Student", who does nothing but study and study and get advanced degrees and qualifications in absolutely abscure subjects and then likes to brag about their "education", but in fact have no intention whatsoever of being productive and utilising said education…
conversely, I have known persons who were also highly educated as to be able to discuss things which i could only scratch my head and wonder about, but lacked even the basic enough common sense to come in out of the rain….
I think the whole point is…education DOES NOT equal intelligence…
I beg to differ. I have reviewed a great many CV’s over the years of UK professionals of all ages applying for work in Cayman in a number of different fields and it is rare to find an individual with more than 4 A levels.
My direct experience tells me it is in fact extremely uncommon for an individual to have 8-10 A levels. So uncommon that I have never seen it. Do they exist? If you say so, but I have to say that if I were looking at a prospective employee with 8-10 A levels, I not at all sure that on balance it would be a positive thing.
Or you could just get a degree and render A levels meaningless.
You struck a nerve alright. You think because we are living in Cayman Islands we don’t know what University acceptance qualifications are.? if a stuudent has 3 or 4 A level subjects and lets say, six to seven O levels with good grades there is no need to have 8 A levels to enter an institution of higher learning.In fact there are some areas of study that administers mature entrance qualification where you can enter without a set number of subjects. Don’t underestimate us Islanders. We are probably more enlighten than many of you Brits. At least some of our standards are higher than some of yours. We are aware and up to date.
Eight ‘A’ Levels?!?!
Name them!!!
I don’t know why this caught my eye, but 8 A levels? No-one needs 8 A levels. 3 A levels with good grades will suffice for almost anyone.
Perhaps you meant 8 O levels, in which case maybe you we overlooked because you are unable to record simple facts correctly.
I also have another theory.
Great….in the mean time can we hire a real police force? How about Blackwater Security? The money we spend for professionals will be saved by not destroying our tourism by crime or the perception thereof
People have clamored for more local officers and now complain about officers with literacy issues? Which one do you want because it is a choice.
and who said we need more caymanian police officers……hahaha….
Plod is ‘fick’ the world over; not just in Cayman.
So let me get this correct……
Our current Police officers cannot read or write? given the history they are also incapable of driving safely and lets be honest, they dont have a great record for solving crimes either.
The crime rate in Cayman continues to rise and its fairly easy to see why !
If I am not mistaken, the esteemed Dr. White who is now telling everyone how it is our fault that we are being robbed, at least in part, was in charge of training. It is no wonder why the Commish will not arm the Service – they cannot even use a pen correctly, let alone a firearm. I am sorry, but if they need to send the Officers back to school to learn basic skills of life, all has been lost. The service is almost non-functional with the exception of traffic and a few great officers. All of the Officers that have left the Service, did not need to go back to school to learn their ABC’s. This is a disgrace that there are so many in the Service that a course has been made up. It is no wonder why crime is the way it is. We are being Policed by illiterates and mentally unstable people according to Mr. Baines.
I am only hazarding a guess here, but on the application at http://www.rcips.ky , it does not stipulate that recruits are required to a) have graduated high school or b) have any tertiary education….. Which will go to explain their lack of basic skills.
Computer skills would also be of use. I have gone to the GT Station before to give a statement, that should have taken a normal person 20 minutes to type out on a computer, not the 3 1/2 hours that I ended up sitting there. I even offered to do it for them.
It seems that if they have gone further than most then it would most likely fast track them in terms of promotion once their basic training is complete.
Of signifcant interest is in the brochure for recruitment; http://www.rcips.ky/files/rcips_recruitment_info_2009.pdf
whereby they are given $7,800 a year for housing allowance and $900 a year for laundry! Now I am no mathematician but that is a lot of money when you factor how many cops there are on the force.
What I want to know is how long do they get these perks for? Because if they are afforded this throughout their careers this may need to be another cut in government expenditure. And it will also explain the reason why the majority of the cops are foreigners becasue I bet you they don’t get that on their own force, wherever they are from.
Especially when they aren’t really up to the job in the first place…..
So, it is equally possible that the other areas that govern society within the Cayman Islands are equally in need of basic education and tertiary life skills.
What are the entry requirements and education required for the courts system, immigration, pensions, healthcare and even politics?
These are all areas that can affect and seriously alter peoples lives with one mistake or error.
I think Mr Baines should be applauded for lifting the lid off the can and identifying a problem that has been common knowledge to many, yet addressed by none.
I will applaud any others equally who dare to follow suit and address any shortfall in other areas of the social system.
It is a shocking state of affairs that those without a basic level of literacy are entrusted to enforce and uphold our laws but it is what it is… I applaud this effort and hope it succeeds! It should not take 2 hours for a police officer to type a simple witness report and the same document should not be strewn with typographical errors… in today’s professional world someone who can’t word process less that 80 wpm would not even be hired as a secretary… clearly the RCIPS has held much lower standards for its police force for far too long!
Everybody deserves a chance. Those that has a high level of Education do not have common sense whereas those that don’t have the proper education has it. It takes both to make it in this world and I appreciate the fact that the officers who are lacking in basic literacy skills get the chance to work on them.
Stop being small minded……and a bit more encouraging whereas you yourself and many others lack in many areas!
But small mindedness is what we do best!
What people need to realize is that a statement is a clear and factual word for word recollection of what happened and is stated as it is given so, if de man seh im no see nuttin then yeh haf fi type it as the man say it. You can’t clean it up and type proper english. If patois is the man’s tongue then patois is what you’ll find yourself typing, and they don’t teach that in any literacy class. So be careful what you call typos. You can’t put it in your own words.
Walk a mile in these brave and noble individuals shoes before yo.u crush them. There are one or two that cannot read properly but they are brave officers who have hearts of steels and will tackle anything. You need their street slang and smarts to survive so watch how you try to refine them.
EXODUS: The Commish and his cronies from across the pond are doing a very good job at running the experienced officers from the force and they are being replaced by people who will increase coffee sales and do nothing else. Mr. Baines, what does it cost to retain experience? Former Commissioner Thursfield said: " It is easier to prevent an officer with 15 or 20 years service from retiring or resigning because you cannot train some one in 6 months to get 15 years of policing."
I wonder if the present Commish share this view? Apparently not. He believes in transporting people from across the pond. What do the English and the Canadians know about Cayman that the Caymanians don’t know. I wish the commish to step foward and tell the John Public what value the people are getting for their money. I’d also like to ask the question, with the new shift system, how and when are these men and women will be going back to the classroom and still spend time with their respective families? Can somebody answer these questions?
Isn’t there a basic level of education that must be met before a police officer can be considered for the job,"basic literacy skills"wow, lmao.this is what we are depending on to protect us.But "it is what it is" The rest of what the commissioner said makes sense to some degree,and I agree there is no quick fix to this problem.But what he has said will take years and an over inflated budget. I just want to see if it gives us any kind of immediate and long term relief from the crime and violence we are now faced with.
Very scary indeed……..but at least we have more information regarding potential reasons for the incompetence.
Maybe we should hand pick young men defying authority and give them the responsibility of enforcing the laws, then spend the money educating and training them……outside of prison.
That way we spend less money on hiring foreign cops, paying for future rehabilitation of these men in Northward and reduce unemployment of Caymanians ( and yes, I’m going to say ‘born’ Caymanians). Or hire experienced, trained cops from the UK. Did anyone notice a drastic increase in crime right after the announcement that the 16 cops were being sent back? Or was that just my opinion??
Again, I would also like to know if any recruits here were from the recent batch terminated from service in Jamaica. It is in the best interest of all concerned to know, regardless of any patriotism, and proper investigation needs to always be used in recruitment of persons in charge of security.
OMG they have to be sent back to school to learn literacy skills…how the h–l did they even become police officers?
Keep digging the hole commissioner. This is a joke, do you really think literacy skills is going to make them good officers???? LMAO
Thank you Commish. The overseas transfers will be critical and I wish you the best.
Sounds like you’ve applied. Personally I think the Commissioner should be training up the locals they’ll give more years service to their community and have a better insight into their community. The Transferees will arrive for a couple of years maybe four and then leave so the RCIP will be back where they started. The transferees wson’t be getting that vital information from the community – they are oitsiders. Surely training up locals will benefit the Islands and Cayman and it will be cheaper than shipping over Brits or Canadians and then having to pay to ship them back again. Improve the training rather than waste money on transferees.
I was referring to locals getting experience in the UK…sorry I was not clearer.
It should never have to be the responsibility of a Police Service to teach its own members ‘basic literacy skills’. If they don’t have the literacy skills how are they getting into the Service in the first place? We have gone for too long on this island with a situation where many members of the RCIPS are simply not up to the job. Anyone who has had to endure reading one of the statements taken by one of these officers will know exactly what I am talking about. There are some very good officers in the RCIPS and this situation is extremely frustrating for them. We have seen many of the most talented police officers leave the service over the last few years. But, believe me – the ones without the ‘basic literacy skills’ will be staying exactly where they are – ‘policing’ our community. Scary situation, isn’t it?
With my humble observation I would like to make a suggestion. While driving whether it be day or night I am always on the look out for Criminals. There are lots of stuff that look very suspicious to me and I always wander if it is legal for our Cops to stop and check these people out. It is always better to ty and prevent them from doing wrong rather than to catch when the act is done. There are lots of strange people walking riding and driving now a days, perhaps they could be stopped and asked to show some identification, and I BET THERE ARE GOING TO BE ALOT THAT IS NOT HERE LEGALLY.
I would suggest you read up on the European Convention on Human Rights to see why it is not legal to "Stop and search" someone without "reasonable cause or suspicion of a criminal act"…the fact that someone "looks like a criminal" doesn’t make them one…
So it would appear that at least 4 person who read this blog are completely okay with violating a persons rights and using profiling as a means to an end…I just wish instead of a "thumbs down" you would have given some reason for your disapproval of actually respecting a persons human rights…