Top cop points finger at US
(CNS): The Cayman Islands police commissioner has blamed the United States firearms policy for the deaths of young Caribbean men. In a presentation regarding crime in the region David Baines said that the right to bear arms there was directly contributing to the denial of the right to life for young men in the Caribbean. He also said America and western European nations were criticising the Caribbean when they themselves had failed to address the demand for drugs in their countries. Speaking at the Northern Caribbean Conference on Economic Co-operation last week Baines pointed to drugs and guns as the region’s most pressing crime problems.
The RCIP’s most senior officer told conference delegates gathered at the Ritz Carlton about the worrying proliferation of firearms in the region, which included military grade weaponry, assault rifles and heavy caliber machine guns.
“I have no interest in seeking to comment upon national politics and the laws and governance of US citizens and their constitution. However, at an international level, and specifically here in the Caribbean, the constitutional right to bear arms in the United States is directly contributing to the denial of the right to life for young men across the Caribbean,” he said.
Baines said that while every murder was a tragedy for the family, it was also a tragedy for the region, with tourism taking a bashing every time a serious crime was committed and reported in the press. He criticised an article in The Economist earlier this year which stated that Caribbean police forces were looking overseas to recruit officers. The article said: “There is good reason to import foreign managers. Caribbean police forces were set up in colonial times to catch mango thieves and quell native unrest. They are being overwhelmed bywell armed gangs, international drug traffickers and systemic corruption.”
Such commentary rankled the community, the commissioner said, adding that it failed to recognise the realities faced by the local and regional police services in small countries with limited funding and infrequent public support.
Turning the tables, he said that those countries receiving illicit drugs had not done enough to quell demand. He said the article overlooked the point that the violence in the Caribbean was down to its geography as a convenient hub for drugs originating from the South and Central Americas transiting to the main demand centres of the United States and Western Europe. Yet, those same developed countries had failed to counter their own drug problems "with a myriad of law enforcement agencies and unparalleled funding”, he noted.
The commissioner spoke about the region’s common criminal issues, which, he said, differed only in scale but pointed to the organised drugs trade as the most serious. The squeeze on organised criminals based in Jamaica meant they would "migrate to safer locales to continue their criminality", and, as a result, the importance of acting regionally to meet local threats could not be overstated.
Baines said organised crime usurped legitimate government and its criminal activity clogged up the courts. “The criminal justice system is then pressured with delays,” he said, which in turn were exploited by the criminals to intimidate or even murder witnesseses, so trials collapsed and the dangerous go free. In Jamaica, he noted, trials were still not concluded in some cases after ten years.
The situation in Tivoli Garden, Kingston, he said, showed how this organised crime undermined democracy. “The arrest and extradition of Christopher Dudas Coke to America required an operation equivalent to a military campaign to enter the area controlled by Dudas. Some 80 persons plus died during the operation to secure Dudas’ arrest and retake the area controlled by him for many years,” Baines said.
To understand the impact of how organised crime groups replaced legitimate government and law enforcements in this environment, the commissioner said that within Tivoli Gardens, 4000 homes existed, though only one percent paid utilities because the companies feared retaliation if they disconnected the supply.
Baines said crime fighting required a common approach at the regional level, including joint training initiatives and the sharing of information, assets and resources. He said that having Jamaica and FBI resources on standby, ready to deploy within an hour of request to somewhere like Cayman, when faced with a criminal threat outside of the norm was a real blessing as it was no longer sufficient to rely on a single department or unit, police or military.
“The threat is such that alignment of endeavour by government, judiciary, police, military and civil society are essential in order to exploit any opportunity to prevent organised crime gangs from establishing a base in our community,” the commissioner said.
Category: Headline News
This seems to inadvertently say that the "war on drugs" is not working (much like the embargo on Cuba) and with that i can agree.
Just maybe we should follow the lead of neither the USA or UK….seems The Netherlands has a more sensible and sustainable way of dealing with drugs and guns.
If our western cultures spent half on education rather than "The war onDrugs" we’d be much further ahead.
Also, blaming our criminal problems on USA residents "right to bear arms" will solve nothing!(as that will NOT change!)….it would serve us better to Properly Train more Police as well as Law Abiding Residents.
And de-criminalize smaller amounts of marijuana/soft-drugs for personal use….treat it much like we do tobacco and alcohol (which cause and cost society much more trouble/suffering and money).
It cost far too much to continue with this "war on drugs" mentality/program!
Over the past two years, firearms sales in the USA are up about significantly, yet according to the FBI, violent crimes are down for the same period http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/december/crime_122010/crime_122010
Commissioner Baines should step down!
Help!
What’s wrong with this man?! All these years with a high degree and education, and this is the kind of stuff he comes out with?! After calling the local officers illiterate, he is caught up in philosophy!
God help us all!
TennisAce:
you sure do sound like you and bainsey belong to the same racket club.
Sounds like you have the same disgust as he does with all the little jiggers listening to rap, reggae and using a firearm.
We have a term for that in the caribbean. We will never change, we are loud we are proud.
All I have to say to people like you is "Don’t let the door hit you on your way out."
I spent 3 years in Cayman helping repair homes after Ivan. I was robbed 4 times and learned a lot about the Caymanian police force. From what I know first hand there is no way that ANY man can control ANY group of people that have very little cultural morality(Caymans criminals and police). The fact that Grand Cayman is not right now totally out of control and does not have a higher amount of gun crime is a testament to how well he is doing.What he is trying to do is save Cayman from itself. My own little humble opinion is that it can’t be done and all the headlines are proving me right.
Is it just me or does anyone else realize that the amount of money that has been (fill in the blank with your own words) from your own Government makes all other crimes on Cayman pretty insignificant.
WOW!!!!! I am utterly speechless, and can only say . . . . . . . There’s one born every day!
Oh boy! Baines you have got alot of nerve blaming someone else for your house and yard being dirty. This is most bull I have ever heard yet. Get out there are start doing the job you’re paid for. If you can’t handle it RESIGN.
Analyzing the crime situation on the Island over the last few years, it has severely increased with our last two Commissioners: Baines and Kernohan.
Kernohan disintergrated the DTF, got rid of Derek Haines, was too worried about his helicopter, lessons, piloting career and getting his face in the news with all his traffic stops. Oh and he pissed off the US DEA by telling them: "We don’t need help from a bunch of Cowboys".
Baines is following his lead with his anti-American sentiments and has now blamed the American Constitution for his failings of policing an island the size of a Texas ranch.
It is disparaging that all of the support different US institutions and organizations have given to the Police over the years is being repaid with a slap in the face by these ill worded comments spoken at an international conference.
Mr. Baines, stop being anti-American and please don’t try to compare the UK to the US. It is impossible. America is huge and each state is also very different.
All nations need to work together to combat international crime, it is called teamwork and building alliances.
Really think we need new leadership and different methods in the RCIP, as current ideologies are not working.
Well said!!!!! You can hand pick all island’s criminals. All police can do is to wrap yellow tape around a crime scene and issue a traffic ticket for not wearing a seatbelt. 400 policemen can’t catch anyone on the island 12 x 8 in the widest place.
Baines is following his lead with his anti-American sentiments and has now blamed the American Constitution for his failings of policing an island the size of a Texas ranch.
Enforcement! Enforcement!! ENFORECEMENT!!!!!
It matters not from whence the guns come. It matters that the nation where the guns are enforce its laws regarding the possession of firearms. Lax enforcement by the police and the courts are the culprit when firearms laws are treated secondarily to other crimes and misdemeanors.
Strict enforcement with severe penalties for the violators sends a message to all that the possession and/or use of firearms will NOT BE TOLERATED!
But it would seem that it is easier to blame others than to take responsibility.
"Yet, those same developed countries had failed to counter their own drug problems "with a myriad of law enforcement agencies and unparalleled funding”, he noted".
So, he is admitting that the War on Drugs is a failure. At least we agree on something.
These are the words of a desperate chief of police struggling to contain gun crime on an island 26 miles x 7 miles, with a population of 45,000!, and now taking a leaf out of the Premier’s book and blaming someone else.
The problem we have in Cayman is not about guns and drugs from the US, it’s the ever widening social divide; the failing economy; the failure of the government’s educational policies; a Premier that speaks to those with wealth but not to his own WB constituents who are failing to make ends meet.
The "average" Caymanian has been overlooked by a government that, for the past 5-years, has ignored accepted economic policies to bring the country out of recession. All it’s done is to invenbt hare-brained schemes to try to pander to the rich in a vain attempt to stimulate inward investment; to plug the budget deficit as quickly as possible; to try to by-pass the hard work necessary to stimulate the economy out of recession. Foolishness. One or two big inward investors will not solve Cayman’s failing economy. In any case, they’re not coming here because Cayman’s a social, economic, and political mess. The government should tidy the dining room before it invites guests to dinner.
The simple fact is this government has failed to take the hard but necessary decisions to combat the social ills in Cayman; because those running the country themselves lack the education, skills, and experience to do the job. After a year in which Cayman has suffered the highest number of homicides in it’s history, the Premier’s recent statement about the drop in serious crime shows a man completely out of touch with what’s happening on the streets of Grand Cayman.
Baines has had and exploited his opportunity. The populace welcomed and embraced him. He talked the ‘talk’. but never walked the ‘walk’. He is not the individual for the job. He and his appointed cronies need to step down. There is no need to look for anything more than is being continually spewed from him. Anyone can give grand assertions and blame people and institutions for why crime exists, but his job is to fix or least make our quality of life better. He has not been able to do either. He knows he has failed, hence the blame game.
We need positive action, not his opinions which are more and more absurb. His inner sanctum should be ashamed as well for simply placating this facade of incompetence. There is nothing inherently wrong in failing at something. But when people depend on your expertise, failure takes on a different meaning. There is no time for constantly getting up and trying again. A nation’s future is at stake.
Baines is simply not the person for the job. He is out of his depth in many ways and levels of understanding. Maybe Eurocentrism is part of it, but I glean from reading and listening to his excerpts he has not even partially assimilated to the Caribbean culture or social dynamics which largely influence criminal behavior.
Time to stop beating a dead horse as it won’t resurrect. The honorable thing to do is for him to step down and stop blaming others. Some things will always fall ‘Chief of Anything’ shoulders. I was taught the ‘buck’ stop somewhere around his shoulders. Now he wants to displace it?
Dear Mr. Baines,
You are indeed an embarasment to the profession and the uniform.
When will you stop blaming everybody else for your shortcomings and ineffectiveness as a Police Officer and most of all the Police Comissioner.
Why don’t you accept your responsibility and admit to the people of the Cayman Islands that you have no control and no interest in quelling the crime in the Cayman Islands.
Take ownership man! Offer some form of resolve for this explosion. Stop being negative, stop the blame game (Skyjuice vendor in Jamaica, now Uncle Sam) and for once be proactive in your fight against crime in this country.
Just try!
Hi "Dear Mr. Baines, you are",
I am not getting the skyjuice vendor in Jamaica part, can you explain? I am sure it is something funny … lol
The missing
link here is that it is the pathetically failed “war on drugs” that is the true
cause for this crime wave.
We need to get
over our moralistic attitude, think like adults, and accept the fact that
substance use and abuse is part of human nature. Substances that trigger the pleasure centers
of the brain, have, are, and will be used by some humans. A small part of that group will abuse those
substances.
If we
accept this fact, decriminalize, regulate and tax those drugs, we do not solve
the problem but move forward. Not only
does this take away the power of the now criminal element who currently meets
this demand, but it also provides sources of funding for treatment and general
revenue to run essential services.
Furthermore, it also saves considerable amounts of money in terms of judicial
proceedings and incarceration.
We have
accepted this with some substances such as coffee, alcohol, cigarettes… it is
time to expand the list. Let us also not
forget that even essential substances such as food, can be abused, lead to
significant health issues and even death.
What a load of Crock !
In some countries the Citizens are REQUIRED BY LAW to have a Firearm in every household …. what are the levels of "Gun-crime" in those countries?
The problem in the Caribbean is that the Social Systems have failed to Educate and provide Opportunity for the youth, that, coupled with the major break-down in the family social structure (absentee fathers).
These ‘youths’ are not raised to respect Authority, Rules (Laws), or their Elders (other people). So what is to become of them?
They are not able to become productive members of our societies, so they turn to Drugs and Crime.
We Reap, what we Sow.
Taking firearms from the hands of ordinary citizens DOES NOT have a positive effect on controlling crime, it has the opposite effect.
IF you don’t believe me, read the Gun Crime Statistics for the UK. See what happened to the statistics for Violent Crimes committed with Weapons (all types) AFTER the UK Banned Handguns and put Major controls on Firearm ownership.
Hear who blaming USA. Someone who has failed the Cayman Islands.
Sorry, for all of you are who are of the view that Baines is blowing smoke, he does have a point. Most of the guns that are being used by gangsters in the Caribbean and Latin America are coming from the U.S. It is the U.S. with its lack of policing at its wharves and ports of departure that allows all the guns and ammunition that are coming into the Caribbean and Latin American to do so much damage.
In every country in the world corruption is rife. The Caribbean does not manufacture guns and ammunition yet every year we lose thousands of our people across the Caribbean and Latin American to gun violence. Where are the guns coming from if not the U.S. and perhaps Mexico.
The U.S. and Europe have a drug problem and Mr. Baines is right, instead of combating that issue, they spend money on curbing the illegal drugs in the Caribbean and Latin America. They have been doing that for the last 50 years, and still have not be able to curb the drug supply. Perhaps if the U.S. had spent all those billions of dollars in helping Caribbean and Latin American governments to combat unemployment, put more money into education and social infrastructure projects, then perhaps our young men would not now be killing each other with guns imported from overseas.
People need to remember that Mr. Baines was recruited from a European country where he was involved in law enforcement. He has seen for himself what the lax policies in drug prevention have done to law enforcement. I am sure that he has first hand knowledge of the flow of guns and drugs from the U.S/Europe to the Caribbean so clearly he must have an idea what he is talking about.
The commissioner and yourself have no knowledge of what he was talking about.
He did say that he was trained to deal with people stealing mangoes though.
TennisAce,
You need a reality check, mate….
You’re not paying Baines a public salary of somewhere in the region of CI$200,000 pa to stand before international conventions and spout excuses and blame and lecture other countries on their constitutional laws, enforcement policies, music culture, drug-use culture or any of these things…
You’re paying him to control crime in the Cayman Islands and keep the islands’ citizens and residents as safe as possible…
If he can’t do that, then send him packing back to whatever little country police force in Britain from whence he came…
You seem to believe that because he’s originally a British cop that that counts for anything…
Ask him why guns and drugs flourish in Britain as well, particularly in certain London communities…
Is the US constitutional right to bear arms the cause for British gun crime also ?
Where do the guns that are imported into Britain come from ?
This man is a disgraceful excuse for a police commissioner but then again…
Cayman’s politicians always pick one of their own kind for the job, don’t they ?
A page directly from McDinejad’s book! Blame someone else…
It is the reporter that used the word ‘blames’, Baines merely commentates on the position, and to be honest, has a point. The liberal use of firearms in the US hardly discourages. And gun crime in the US is way way worse than it is here or in most of the western world. So perhaps the American way is not the answer! And the drugs market demand is the US and UK and Europe, just how much have those countries done to help the Caribbean area, especially the Cayman Islands, stem the drugs flow.
The morale of the RCIPS is actually quite good, I have some friends in there, and they are busy, yes, but not down. They are moving forward and dealing with the issues, sites like CNS don’t exactly encourage them to talk. Whatever they do and say is always rubbished and greeted with negativity.
You know I cannot believe this situation. Everyone from the Premier, deputy premier (where is she??), the opposition to the police Commissioner and on down the chain are strutting around posturing and producing sound bites like this crime issue will just go away or is just another chapter in Cayman’s history. I cannot accept that. The country that is so important to me is changing daily for the worse and no one seems to want to do anything about it.
The television that we allow our kids to watch is also partly to blame for the surge in violence and crime in our region and this territory.
Baines however is correct that America dictates policy in this region on so many levels. Although we are still a British territory, our neighbours although now independent countries in some cases, still have a British leaning.
We must remember that Roosevelt famoustly stated to Churchill during WWII to which Britain was heavily indebted : " You may own the West Indies, but they are in our backyard and we dictate the policy". This is what is happening still today,and we must wake up and understand it, otherwise we cannot plan to move forward.
If Britain has never settled the debt owed to the USA or it was never writtenoff then we should be able to understand who runs things!
Or of course Austrian!
I do think the commissioner has a point. Once there is a demand, people will try to source it. That is why the idea of illegal immigration and war on drugs are so absurd. It is highly hypocritical that the US and Western Europe blame the Caribbean and latin America for the drug problem when majority of the consumers are from their country. If there is not a demand, there cannot be a market. It seems as if majority of the people in Cayman don’t have a mind of their own. I am not absolving all blame from people in Latin America and the Caribbean, but the Western countries need to do a lot more in decreasing the demand in their countries before standing on their soapboxes. (FYI) I am not anti America or Anti Europe, I am just calling a spade a spade)
This guy has got to be kidding. If this is what we have running Law Enforcement here then it is no wonder we are in the mess we are at this time !!
Barnes is like many bureaucrats. Blowing smoke to divert attention from a problem he has failed to correct. I have been a annual visitor to GCI for several years and seen the general increase in crime and lawlessness. Police are next to invisible, especially where and when most crimes occur. How about some police presence and enforcement, at night, along N. Church Street and West Bay Road. Maybe Cayman police are just timid and undertrained.
Mr. Baines… your job is in a small village (Cayman)….. not US of 300million pop nor W. Europe with about the same pop. You are in a village…….you should be able to do a better job… please don’t make that comparison again…. you are missing the point…..where are your police? and who trained them….. did they inflate their CVs … God knows they don’t know how to fight crime…. I am a banker and I could do a better job
The right to bear arms (in the U.S.) was initiated over 200 years ago. Americans still have this right, but in most states must meet strict standards before being allowed to exercise that right. Are you sure this is having a bearing on crime here?
There are over 7000 gun shops in Texas border towns that willingly sell weapons to Mexicans who cross the border. Their existence is primarily to support the demand for guns that flow to Mexico. The following was reported this year.
"Mexico’s ambassador to the United States, Arturo Sarukhan, appealed to Congress and the Obama administration on Tuesday to help prevent organized criminals in his country from illegally buying and smuggling weapons from the U.S.
Border violence related to drug, weapons and human trafficking has claimed thousands of lives in recent years. And with Mexico’s strict gun-control laws, law enforcement officials estimate that cartels are purchasing nearly all of their assault weapons and other guns from American vendors.
In Texas border towns alone, there are about 7,000 gun shops, Sarukhan said.
“Regardless of what I may think of the Second Amendment and regardless of whether I think you need to buy armor-piercing ammo to hunt deer or not, Mexico is not challenging the Second Amendment. That is a sovereign decision of Congress; that is a sovereign decision of the American people,” Sarukhan said during a Capitol Hill panel discussion on border violence.
“What we are asking the U.S. to do is help us enforce what’s on the books, help us improve the U.S.’s ability to prevent weapons crossing, and to investigate who and how the drug syndicates are purchasing weapons on this side of the border.”
Sarukhan, speaking to about 100 people during an event sponsored by moderate think tank Third Way, praised the Obama administration for committing additional manpower and resources to beef up border security. But he urged the American government to prevent people from countries that ban assault weapons from being able to buy them in the U.S."
Why Blame Others Isn’t It The RCIPS Duty To Ensure Our Islands Are Safe?
Well It Just So Happens To Be Their JOB WHAT THEY ARE GETTING A SALARY FOR! So STOP Blameing OTHERS and do YOUR JOBS!
And by doing your jobs that doesn’t mean to drive around all day long in air conditioned vehicles looking and seeing things which needs to be solved and driving pass it and pretending ya’ll didn’t see any crime taking place.
Well the way to solve the current crime rate within in our country the Cayman Islands; is to do frequent rounds in areas where Gun Men,Thugs,Gangsters hangout and continue to do search after search and carry everyone and everything which falls in the criminal sections; I mean it is the Government(RCIPS) duty to ensure our islands are a safe place not only for us Caymanians but also our visitors because the more this crime rate increases the worst it will become for all of us in the end; I mean be honest think about it worse the crimes get we all will have to always be aware of our surroundings on a frequent basis and already the Cayman Islands is showing the same exact things as Jamaica where crime is on a regular for that country and the people in Jamaica doesn’t have say in their homeland and that cannot happen with the Cayman Islands. It just can’t and I would hope it wouldn’t get to that extent because we would be in serious problems if that was to ever happen.
PLEASE SAVE OUR BELOVED CAYMAN ISLANDS! PLEASE OH WOULD SOMEONE HONEST AND WHO ARE TRULY HEREFOR US PEOPLE OF THE CAYMAN ISLANDS AND NOT THE MONEY WHICH THEY WOULD BE COLLECTING!
The right to life doesn’t make sense. How can I talk about a right that’s impossible to enforce. It’s as if people will call anything a right if it promotes their agenda.
Baines:
Those AK-47’s don’t come from the US, and you never hear about M-16’s being used in crime, it’s more of a Glock thing which is of course German.
The drugs here didn’t come from the US either but from your neighbors to the south, west and east. The drug addicts here are the reason you have drugs here, not the drug addicts in the US.
The US with all of its firearms has less violent crime per person than the Caymans. You might consider whether there’s a relationship. Cayman has more police per capita than the US. Use’em and stop whining.
I’ve heard a lot of B/S in my days but this takes the cake. How in the world did he come by this assement. In the United States it is legal to carry a gun if its licensed and the right to bare arms do not give you the right to kill. In saying this if we in Cayman had this right and could account for who had weapons these thugs that are doing the crime here would have been caught a long time ago. In America they are not threatened to loose their freedom / freedom of speech as we are here in these little islands.
Mr Baines its no secret that the UK folks do not like the folks from the U S, but this just showed us here in Cayman how ignorant a person can be when holding on to old myths.
If you want to see something done about the crime and the guns that are coming in to Cayman start right on the dock area, the boats that are coming out of Honduras & Jamaica & other south America countries is where we need to check, the cargo containers out of China ETC, start using your helicopter to frequently comb the waters around these shores, do something to earn your salary. You just made me sick(:
Glock is an Austrian company, not German.
A Glock firearm is made and distributed in Austria my friend. A quick Google search would have shown you that
umm sorry Sir,
this is the reason why you all should had install finger print machines at all ports on the island, to internationally detect something about someone, dont blame the US they have their own laws, Cayman was not going to always stay as the loving sweet back turtle island it always was.
we live on an island infested with every natioNALITY they smile in our face and they are the same ones from in thier past that commited serious crime, r*Pe, extortion, financial crime, homocides, but they are here Cayman has been unprotected, + damaged= no background checks at all, so if your white expecially with blue eyes, The Caymans is the place to be and we dont know these people, so get your head Screw and thinking cap, what a shame blaming the US, they need guns, they are infested, now get to work!!!!!!
He is absolutely correct. More access to guns means more gun crime. End of story. End of debate.
Really
How do you explain Switzerland, Canada, Australia with high legal gun ownership and low gun crime and theUK with low legal gun ownership with higher rates of gun and violent crime
It is probably the difference between a) hand guns and rifles and b) provision after military training.
Anyway he is right. This is British territory and that should not be forgotten. There is not a right to own a gun and with any luck the laws on gun ownership will remain as strict as they are right now forever. If you want to live with lots of guns go to Jamaica, Nassau or the States.
Baines you should just leave.You destroyed morale in the RCIPS. You are just a defeatist. You are incapable of leadership. The failure of a leader reflects the quality of leadership he is providing. This is a new low even for you. Again I say 100 professional armed and trained police officers could bring an end to the reign of terror we are facing. You must have some ulterior motive. Do the right thing and step down. In case you are not aware most of the robberies on this island are being carried out with small arms and a shot gun. At least this is what your police reports are saying. Come back to reality. Your men have a failure to engage. Maybe 4 or 5 armed pairs operating here committing these armed robberies. And about another 30 armed druggies at worst and they are holding you the RCIPS and this island at bay. It would be funny if I wasn’t serious.
It’s food for thought I guess but the main thing is that it is nice to finally hear Mr Baines talking about Cayman’s crime problem, even if it is to just pass the buck.
Maybe one day soon Mr Baines and Mr Bush will actually talk to the people of the Cayman Islands about it!
I have a good mind to cancel my trip. What the heck is this guy saying? He doesn’t want my business and is blaming my country for his countries problems? WTH!
Yes, cancel your trip, you’re not wanted here. Please send all the money you were planning on spending though – that;s wehat we do here. We don’t want YOU, just your cash. This is NOT the old-time Caymanian way, but is what we have become due to rapid growth and foreign bankers/laywers. I truly miss the old Cayman, may she rest in peace.
John
I do not remember when an American was arrested down therefor a home invasion, a bank robbery, a gas station robbery, a shooting, a stabbing or a purse snatching. Did I miss something while reading the reports?
Guns don’t kill people, bad people kill people!
Guns don’t kill people, monkeys with machine guns kill people.
Now I am completely convinced that the crime in Cayman will continue to grow, drive tourism and international business away and ruin peoples lives until we have a new premier, some MLA’s with coconuts and a new police commission. Everyone is finger pointing no one is doing anything. Simply amazing……
I’m afraid the CoP’s knowledge of the illicit firearms trade is a bit lacking.
For many years the best source of weapons has been the former Soviet Union and Yugoslavia. How these arrive in the Caribbean is open to debate but it for sure isn’t through the USA – more likely Nicaragua, Cuba or more recently Venezuela.
Cuba has also handed over 1000s of weapons (including US arms captured in Vietnam) to guerrilla groups operating in Central or South America and they were heavily involved in Grenada before the USA intervened. The Noriega regime in Panama also wasn’t backward when it came to handing out weapons, more than a few of which ended up armed the drug cartels in countries like Colombia.
As an example of what has been going on in Eastern Europe, back in 1991 I was offered AK47s, RPGs, sniper rifles and a variety of other firearms including 12.7mm heavy machine guns by a dealer who was openly operating out of two hotel rooms in my Leningrad hotel.
Later that year I saw Yugoslavia and Albania literally awash with weapons and ammunition ‘liberated’ from government armouries. Large quantities of those, as I am sure Mr Baines is aware, ended up on the open marketwith many turning up in the UK. The ammunition used to kill TV presenter Jill Dando was made in Yugoslavia.
I think Mr Baines is confusing the fact that most of the weapons seized in the Cayman Islands were made in the USA with the overall picture of armed crime in Caribbean. You cannot, whatever Mr Baines thinks, go out and buy ‘military grade weaponry (whatever that means?), assault rifles and heavy caliber machine guns’at your local street corner gun dealer in the USA but you can for sure buy them in at least one nearby Central American country with no problem.
This is bit like blaming the Japanese for all the road accidents on Cayman’s roads simply because they manufactured the cars involved.
I’m sorry Mr Evans, but what exactly are you saying?You start by claiming the best source for illegal arms has been the former Soviet Bloc countries (not well known for their use of US-made arms) and then you say that the majority of arms seized in the Cayman Islands are USA-made. Please make your mind up.
I would imagine that whilst the Commissioner may not be an expert in the international arms trade, the RCIPS and Foreign Office speak to plenty of people who are, and that these statements are more than mere idle speculation.
As for your patronising tone with regards to how the CoP may think military specification weaponry can be bought, I think we can all acknowledge that such high velcoity firearms are available legally in the US, and from that initial legally-held basis can find their way, very easily, into the Carribean criminal community. Read some professionally written briefing papers on this matter – not just hearsay from reporters. Guns in the Carribbean come from the US.
Drugs in the Caribbean come from South and Central America. The Guns accompany the drugs to be used in protecting and distrubiting the drugs. The guns may be made in the USA but more find their way here from South and Central America.
The theory the Commisioner has that the guns are coming from the US explains the reason why the RCIPS has not been successful in interdicting them. They are simply looking for them in the wrong places.
It is not easy to smuggle guns out of the US these days given the amount of security assets that is assigned to interdiction, so the guns find their way over the US common borders in to South and Central America and then back here because the drug people know that it is easier to smuggle via that route.
Most of the guns smuggled into Cayman have come in on drugs canoes out of Jamaica, boats and ships coming out of Central America and some limited smuggling in containers, through the port system…
Where these guns are manufactured or originated is totally beside the point…
The arms trade is the largest in the world and of course is rooted in all the armed conflicts that are raging around the world and the lucrative drug trade.
Legal guns from the USA are not finding their way into Cayman; illegally bought and used weapons prolifierate world-wide…
The job of national security and law-enforcement is to combat this system on behalf of the innocent, law-abiding citizens of their countries that are paying them to do so.
Baines is a political appointment by McKeeva Bush; with Bush standing before the same convention claiming that crime is down in the Cayman Islands, Baines has to stand behind his boss….
Or pay the consequences…..
Just in case what I said wasn’t clear –
Baines blames the proliferation of firearms in Caribbean on the USA but that’s definitely not where the majority of them are coming from – and that’s not hearsay, that’s from working as a journalist in Eastern Europe, the Middle East and this region.
I will concede that it appears that the majority of handguns (a drop in the proverbial ocean) seized in Cayman were made in the USA but that’s not what he said – he blamed the USA for supplying military weapons to illegal users throughout the Caribbean and that’s not true. The AK47s and other Soviet-era weapons now flooding the region are not coming from the USA and he should know that.
FYI, I understand that during the same speech he also called for rap music to be banned because it promoted violent behaviour.
What we have is a senior police officer making misleading generalisations in a public forum – something that would not be tolerated in the UK and an act that certainly should not be acceptable in the Cayman Islands. As we say over here, if Mr Baines wants to play politics he should stand for election.
It’s always easier to pass the buck. I don’t think anyones wonders why. It’s what is going to be done about it. I wouldn’t waste any time waiting for other countries to change their policies. We sure can change ours.
Violent crime has two root causes.
Drug Prohibition: Legalize and control drugs and you will stop most of the related violence, crime and the criminal need for guns. Just look at the history of alcohol prohibition. Remember Al Capone and hisfriends? Alcohol, nicotine and many prescription drugs are evil, addictive and cause early death yet they are legal; we tolerate the social cost. Why not tolerate the rest of the drug products like ganja, cocaine, opiates etc? Yes, there will be a social cost to legalization and control just like we have now with prohibition; however, legalization and control will generate tax revenue that can be used to offset the social cost and help clean up the social mess. Drug lords do not pay taxes.
Poverty: Cayman needs to scrap its indentured slavery law that goes by the sanitized name of its immigration law. The indentured slavery system encourages the abuse of indentured slaves and is a significant contributor to Caymanian unemployment.
Hot shots and hot pockets a half a dozen of this and that Gold and Platinum commands all a bunch UK mumbo jumbo all design to tie up and ridicule and waste our money and to justify employment of their cronies. Now we see the person responsible for this current situation now blaming our main source of relief in the case of emergency or disaster the United States. Very troubling Cayman very troubling indeed. Caymanians should be mindful of how this criticism could be misinterpreted or misrepresented to our friends to the North. We the Caymanians will no doubt know and feel the consequences of such actions long after these people leave our shores with the wealth they have accumulated right here. Poor old Cayman we take the blame while they play the games with our future.
I tend to disagree with the idea that the 2nd amendment is denying young Caribbean men the right to life. I also tend to disagree with the validity of the 2nd amendment, but that is another story altogether. As an American, I have always lived in towns and cities much larger than the Islands, and with an increase in population comes an increase in violent crime and demand for weapons. Our premier wants to bring more people to this island, and sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but as the Cayman community grows, the potential for the identity shift to "just another Caribbean country" grows as well, and I’ll be willing to bet that petty crimes such as theft would soar.
In terms of a solution to the problem – We can’t rightly say that the population should be limited. That thinking is backward step for Cayman, however it is a double-edged sword. In Portugal, they have implemented a drug policy that has decriminalized personal possession of illegal drugs whereby people found guilty of possession were sent to a panel of professionals consisting of a psychologist, or therapist, and a legal advisor. The idea is to promote treatment rather than punishment, and while drug addiction is not rampant in the Cayman Islands, it does exist. Here is a paragraph from the article outlining Portugal’s success with the new drug policy:
"The impact in the life of families and our society is much lower than it was before decriminalization," says Portugual’s "drug czar" and president of the Institute on Drugs and Drug Addiction, adding that police are now able to re-focus on tracking much higher level dealers and larger quantities of drugs."
I know I’m just "pipe-dreaming" right now, and while this is an effective solution for one nation, I can’t imagine Cayman actually adhering to such policies. So what other options are there? Increased police force? More lenient firearms policies? As the US has the 2nd amendment, citizens are allowed to purchase and carry concealed handguns with a license, and a figures were released this year purporting that after Barack Obama was elected in 2008, many Americans rushed to buy up all the guns they could. Authorities, including the FBI, have concluded that a rise in firearms possession amongst law-abiding citizens is directly related to a decrease in violent crimes because criminals are deterred by the fact that they are unsure if they’re up against someone capable of defending themselves…i.e. the man who shot the home intruder a few months back. Below is a fact-sheet produced by the NRA with loads of useful resources: http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=206&issue=007
While the task of restoring safety and comfort to the community may seem to be a daunting one, as the population is sure to rise and the laws will surely be slow to change with regard to accommodating more bodies on island, there are solutions to the problems we face – but it will require some forward thinking and innovation on the part of our government. In the meantime, do encourage your friends and family overseas to continue visiting and enjoying themselves in Cayman.
Clearly, placing blame never solves problems. Not for the US or for the Caribbean. Mr. Baines is wasting his opportunity to propose solutions and to further public understanding and participation. Short sighted at best. The same can be said for those in the US who spend time blaming instead of solving.
In essence, Mr. Baines has lowered his personal standards to those of whom he accuses by adopting their tactics.
The article states at the very beginning that the Commissioner attended this conference to discuss crime across the entire region. He was not there to discuss crime in Grand Cayman. Policy makers and criminologists do not attend conferences of this nature to hear about robbies of fast food joints and even about assaults on the elderly. They are there to discuss trends across a wide area. I’ve no doubt that the Commissioner would have addressed specific issues of criminality in Grand Cayman had his audience been there to discuss those issues. The Commissioner makes some very interesting arguments. Also the article was very, very well written and informative.
You can just drive around the island and see where trouble is. You can look with your eyes and put 2 + 2 together. Sorry to all of you Human Rights by the Book lets not profile fools. There is such a thing as common sense and where there smoke there is fire. The guy driving down the road with his kids in the car going to church most likely appears to be what it is. The guy riding his bike to work most likely appears to be what it is. They guy driving down the road blasting MO-FO dis and MO-FO Dat with his Tu-Pac on flashing the Gang Sign for a Gun at you because you didn’t get out of his way fast enough is most likely is what it is. Good Citizens don’t mind being held up at road blocks. Just cause should be Just because you look suspicious. People need to decide what side they are on. We should not worry if a guy is profiled if he looks like a Gangsta. Don’t act like a Gansta if you are not a Gangsta. If you are a Gangsta the heat should be on you. I do not think 95% of the population is going to cry foul if the police start driving around with a handful of search warrants (and metal detectors to find that handgun in the coffee can with the drugs buried in the corner of the yard). You can come look at my property anytime. I do not mind just as long as you are looking at theirs too. Most importantly hit these people hard when found guilty beyond doubt.
You can just drive around and see
you are so right on these bleeding heart human righties, they have no clue until its in their own back yard, then its oh my God, well if you have the cahunas take a real stand, stand up for the people that are honest everyday people, if a scum bag want to be a liar, thief etc, let them pay theprice. Let the people defend their property’s
This is just disgusting, its people like Baines that bring decension in communities, Cayman is facing what Nicarauga, Panama, El Salvador and many other small countries faced a few years ago, its coming fast, England & America is working very hard at bringing Cayman to its knees.
The crime situation the finance hoopla all coming together, I will venture to say that in the next ten years Cayman will be a poverty sticken island and all the fat cats will be gone. Im looking for a way out too. The head lines will soon be " CAYMAN GONE"
Commissioner, please understand that the majority of firearms are infact, not coming from the US, but they are coming from Latin America. And that is a fact. Placing blame is of little use right now, with a country that is suffering from a wave of firearm crimes.
At the end of the day, it’s all well and good to point fingers, but the fact is that guns are here to stay. The right to bear arms is not going to change, and if people want a firearm (legally or illegally), they will obtain one. Prohibitions will make no difference. It’s amazing to me how poor our law enforcement seem to be at locating and confiscating illegal weapons, and arresting those in posession. Yes, in the past some attempts were successful, but do they realize just how many illegal firearms are actually in these islands? Making a couple arrests a year for being in posession is not even placing a dent in the problem. Considering we do live on a very small island, the arrest rate is not justifiable. Mr. Baines has some nerve to point fingers, when him and his VERY inept police force can’t even get this small country under control. I’m more inclined to suggest that our good old Mother Country step in take take this one over for a while. Two things need to be dealt with to address the issue (and this is simple common sense)….
Develop/ implement a strategy and create a skilled team whose sole purpose is to 1) locate and seize illegal weapons 2) tighten control around our shores and include air arrivals, as this is how the weapons are reaching the islands.
Unbelievable!
The Commissioner makes a perfectly valid point, accepted as fact by most crime-fighting organisations in the Western hemisphere, and all you people can do is complain. Of course the fact that guns are relatively easy to get hold of in the US means that those guns find their way illegally abroad. It’s a fact – no use complaining about it. The FBI acknowledge it! And whoever thinks that serial No.s allow a gun to be traced should wake up and smell the coffee. Serial numbers are easily removed.
Until Cayman realises that it has no importance in the criminal world, other than as a trading post nodal point for the drugs trade, it will never get any results. How do you think people can afford to buy, import and use illegal weaponry? The money comes from drugs! Caymanian drug consumption is worth nothing to the South Americancartels – the US and Europe is where the money is, and until those countries have success against the drugs trade, what effect is a tiny place like Cayman gonna have?
Not only is the problem of illegal guns a direct result of the US (the guns typically go to Jamaica and are then brought to Cayman), so is the economic downturn, the loss of hedge funds, and the reduced tourism. I’m not being sarcastic, the US manufactures and sells guns (of course, so do other countries, but the majority of weapons used throughout the Caribbean have, if not a manufacture source of the US, a retail sales source of the US), the US banks started the downturn (with the housing bubble in the US creating much of the problem), US investors (majority) put their money into hedge funds, and the majority of Cayman’s tourists come from the US. Cayman has built itself up out of relying on the US, so is now sharing in the problems. Solution: DIVERSIFY Cayman, and stop being so reliant on one country. Cayman has made it’s bed, and now has to lie in it. (and I agree that just because there are guns does not mean there is crime – it’s PEOPLE, quite often under hard times that create the crime, not the weapon).
John
Corruption: Undermines political, social and economic stability. It threatens security and damages trust and public confidence in systems. which affects people daily lives. Although corruption frequently occurs at local or national level its consequences are global, its hidden cost immense. Stop blaming other people Sir!
Dear Mr. Commissioner, How about you get your head out of your a** and realise that guns dont kill people…people kill people. Saying guns kill people is like saying pencils mispell words! Also how about for onceyou actually address something of concern. Nobody has heard a peep out of you for weeks regarding all the crime thats going on in our back yard and the first thing you come out and do is blame a country 500 miles away for our problems. I’ve lived in cities where people have the right to bare arms and they dont go around shooting each other. Its still the criminals that are doing the killing who have firearms illegally. How about you address all the robberies and the elderly being beaten. These are certain circumstances where the right to bear arms would be a good idea but until its your parents im sure you wont really be too concerned! Go figure!
Actually guns make it far easier for people to kill people.
You can kill someone with a spoon, but you can 20 people fast with an AK47.
Guns also cause deaths when if they were not present only a couple of puches would get thrown.
You see it ee it so many times in the US, when a simple argument between lovers or neighbours turns to murder as there was a gun present. It is far easier to pull a trigger than to stab someone multiple times or strngle somone for 3-5 minutes til they die, only a flash of anger is needed.
And then there are the kids that find their parents gun play with it and kill themselves. The gun killed them, if the gun was not present they would still live, no?
What percentage of unlawful or accidental deaths in the US are from guns compared to the UK. Look it up the answer proves you SOOOO wrong bhoy
"You can kill someone with a spoon, but you can 20 people fast with an AK47"
And you can kill alot of people faster with food poisoning. At least with an AK47 its not silent and deadly like poison; you know it and what to do when you hear it. Poisoning can kill 200 people all at once.
Your argument against having a firearm is weak!
Poisoning 200 people takes a lot planning and preparation.
Picking up a gun in anger does not.
True, people kill people.
But guns make the process much more efficient.
As well as knives, baseball bats, machettes, sticks and stones….
What’s your point???
Amen Mr. Baines.
It was not until I arrived in the UK that I fully understood the dynamics of drug trafficking, demand and usage.
The demand their alone is astounding. Back then, I knew teams of university students (Caribbean and British) that were scheming on ways to scrape together USD$ 5,000.00 to purchase a "key" (Kilogram) of cocaine in our region with hopes to sell on in the UK for a minimum of GBP £20,000.00.
(There is nothing quite like being in the midst of intelligent individuals as they construct a plan to execute illegal international trade – quite fascinating.)
Marijuana was as common as a pack of cigarettes. As a matter of fact, to this day the UK is the only place in which I have felt "comfortable" in the knowledge of someone in my immediate vicinity having a "tenner" in their possession. If you happen to be stopped and searched by a cop – no big deal. They simply confiscate the goods and send the individual on his or her way … and get this – the typical reaction from the individual would be one of anger or annoyance – at the cop!
Lol! That blew my mind the first few times. I was like, "Dude, be thankful! In my country your behind would be heading downtown with your future most certainly in shambles."
(At times I wonder how many Senior, Associate, and Partner level expatriate professionals in Cayman led a similar lifestyle in their younger days as many of our local Northward inmates? Something to think about.)
Of course, no one believed me because, "Oh, stop lying mate – you’re from the islands innit’?! All you lot do is smoke trees!"
I could only shake my head in bewilderment.
I know through personal experiences and eyewitness that "drugs" are in high abundance all over the UK and Europe. So much so that I too believe that until those countries do more to tackle the demand from their citizens, it is quite hypocritical and pointless to place the blame for the problem on the supplying regions of the world.
If we are to get serious about drug and arms trafficking in our region then we do in fact need far greater international cooperation. Personally I would like to see a high security, Alcatraz-esque type of island facility to host the removal of known and powerful players in the regional drug / arms game. But of course all of the crap in regards to legal jurisdiction, human rights and blah, blah, blah enters the discussion at this point.
Therefore, here we are – stuck at the table with this same losing hand of cards.
Whodatwas
Shouldent you be in Germany for Christmas.
Ummm … pardon me? I don’t follow.
Even if I was, I am pretty sure "ze Zhurmans" have heard of broadband by now.
(It appears someone has a bit of a wee stalker on their hands. I’m actually relieved that your comment has confused me. If I am confused then so are you … and hopefully your intended ‘target’ is in the clear.)
BS.
I knew a lawyer back in the Uk who was a heroine abuser nearly every night, but still managed to get to work early and leave yet.
So what is the excuse in Cayman, if a Heroine addict can do her job?
This is the most insane thing I have heard. Are you stating that the US is arming your young men? I find that absolutely crazy! The men are arming themselves. Do all firearms come from the US? I don’t think so. Military grade, assault weapons, heavy caliber machine guns. Do you think we can just purchase those? NOT! It is NOT easy to get guns in the US. While we do have laws, there are the occasional "bad person" that illegally gets their hands on them. There are federal checks that people need to go through in order to get a gun. Then your name is in the system, with the serial number. So if the guns come from the US, you shoudl be able to trace who purchased them, and that person will end up in jail for a long time. This article is ridiculous and no wonder why your tourism is going down. You are blaming the very people that come to your Island and keep you afloat. I am appalled at the mentality of the government in Cayman. Not only are they NOT fighting crime the way they should, they are passing the blame on to others, not even stopping to take a look at themselves or the root of the problem. It is not the US Citizens that are corrupting your Island or beliefs, it is the neighboring Islands and Countries that are corrupting your Island. Unbelievable and most importantly upsetting. So if I ever do come back to Cayman, I will feel as though we are the reason for all of Caymans’ problems. Stop passing the buck and move on!
Dear US Citizen,
Please forgive the Commissioner for his ignorance, because he knows not what he sayeth.
Kind Regards,
Dennie Warren Jr.
Ph: 345-926-0716
Mr Dennie et Al,
Since you are so knowledgeable about the crime situation and know more than the commissioner, be a patriot and assume the post. I am sure that it is an easy job. Afterall, the commissioner knows nothing and you are more familiar with the ins and outs of crime fighting.
Dear Sir/Madam,
Based on the Commissioner’s numerous foolish remarks, it appears that anyone is more knowledgeable than him when it comes to fighting crime.
Sincerely yours,
au revoir
Slightly tangential, but one could say the US acts in the same manner in regards to tax evasion. No gov’t wants to take responsibility for their problems, so please get over the fact that we place blame on your lax gun contol for the importation of firearms to our island. Of course the problem lies at home, but until you take responsibility for your own problems, we’ll act the same way. Pot, meet kettle.
There is no way that the US is importing ALL guns to Cayman. The gun laws are not so lax in the US?? Read the papers and see how many people are in jails because they LEGALLY owned a gun. I am not kettle or the pot! We do not stand up and say CAYMAN is the reason we are in trouble! Not once. But you are saying that we are also the reason Cayman is hurting financially? I believe my Country constantly gives to all the other countries. USA is NOT the only manufacturer of guns. The guns on your Islands are coming from other Countries as well. Since 9-11-01 laws are very strict when it comes to firearms and ammunition. There are guns manufactured that you can’t even purchase ammo for.
As far as the US and the Tax Haven that Cayman became! That has nothing to do with this conversation. If Cayman didn’t promote the crooked ways for financials maybe the problems would not have happened?? It amazes me the mentality that comes out in people!
USA does not stand up and blame others for their problems, Cayman sure as hell shoudl not be standing up and slapping those people that come to the Island and keep it going. If it wasn’t for the US tourists, what would Cayman be?
There is no way that the US is importing ALL guns to Cayman. The gun laws are not so lax in the US?? Read the papers and see how many people are in jails because they LEGALLY owned a gun. I am not kettle or the pot! We do not stand up and say CAYMAN is the reason we are in trouble! Not once. But you are saying that we are also the reason Cayman is hurting financially? I believe my Country constantly gives to all the other countries. USA is NOT the only manufacturer of guns. The guns on your Islands are coming from other Countries as well. Since 9-11-01 laws are very strict when it comes to firearms and ammunition. There are guns manufactured that you can’t even purchase ammo for.
As far as the US and the Tax Haven that Cayman became! That has nothing to do with this conversation. If Cayman didn’t promote the crooked ways for financials maybe the problems would not have happened?? It amazes me the mentality that comes out in people!
USA does not stand up and blame others for their problems, Cayman sure as hell shoudl not be standing up and slapping those people that come to the Island and keep it going. If it wasn’t for the US tourists, what would Cayman be?
You gotta be kidding me! The Commissioner can’t get a grip on crime in theCayman Islands and he wants to blame the United States!!
And he announced this at an international conference! Unbelievable!
I’m am just so gob smacked at this momment that I am speechless!
By the way Mr. Commissioner, most of these guns coming in are coming in by way of Jamaica and Central America. But then, you just can’t figure out the crime here, so give over.
Murder happens in all countries, England is no precious darling either, you can’t blame other countries for what happens at home.
Be the leader for what we need here in Cayman and don’t lay blame for your inefficiencies, or go home.
He should be blaming himself and his police force!