Police hunt multiple gunmen
(CNS): Two masked gunmen targeted 24-year-old Andrew Baptist on Thursday night when he was shot dead in a yard in Sand Hole Road, West Bay, police said Friday at a press briefing in the wake of a second murder in the district in 24 hours. They also confirmed that there were at least two gunmen involved in Tuesday night's murder of 28-year-old Robert Bush. Chief Superintendent John Jones said the two killings were connected and gang related. The senior officer said that the “worst fears had been realised” as the feud between the Logswood and Birch Tree Hill gangs had resumed.
Jones said that despite appealing for calm in the wake of the fatal shooting of Bush, “the people we are appealing to seem beyond any appeal we can make. We have to wonder how many more families will be grief stricken before this stops,” he added.
Bush was the first victim in the regenerated feud, which police say appears to have been triggered by an incident in July outside Club Inferno. It is believed he was associated with the Logswood gang and was shot at several times, including in the head, by at least two gunmen while sitting in his car at the junction of Capts Joe and Osbert Road and Birch Tree Hill on Tuesday.
Last night (Thursday 15 September) Baptist, who police say is associated with the Birch Tree Hill gang, was sitting in a yard with several friends at 22 Sand Hole Road when two masked gunmen emerged from behind the house and opened fire on Baptist. Police said that while everyone scattered, the gunmen deliberately targeted the victim with multiple gunshots before they fled the scene. When emergency services arrived only a few minutes after the shooting, the victim was dead.
Head of CID, Detective Superintendent Marlon Bodden, confirmed that Baptist was a person whose name had come up in connection with the enquiry into the killing of Bush on Tuesday but he did not say if he was a witness or a suspect.
The senior officer implored people to come forward and assist the police in order to put a stop to the resumption of dangerous gun violence. He pointed out that had the police had intelligence regarding the history of the two dead men they might have saved their lives. He begged people to come to the police with their information and not try to resolve the issues on the street.
“We have repeatedly asked people for information but it takes someone's death for us to get crucial information about them, when it is too late,” he added. The two senior officers both appealed again to the entire community but in particular the mothers, grandmothers and girlfriends of the young men involved in the feud to come forward with information to prevent more killings. Aware that predictions were being made in the community about further violence this weekend, Bodden said that these predictions were based on some information and people needed to tell it to the police.
They stressed that the only way the RCIPS could stop the violence was to arrest those involved and to do that they needed evidence from eye witnesses, or witnesses that knew the details surrounding the shootings.
Jones said that during the last spate of excessive gang violence early in 2010 many people had bravely come forward and helped to get the suspects behind bars and they needed the community's help again.
Jones stated that evidence was the crucial factor as the police had to operate within the law and could not just simply pluck people up of the streets without evidence. “We can't manufacture evidence,” Jones stressed. He said he understood the frustrations that when it gets to court it may not reach the standards required for a conviction, but there was little they could do about the quality of the evidence that comes to them.
Angry and frustrated by the escalating violence, Bodden begged people to come forward so that the police could act.
The officers said that they suspected that the weapons used by the gunmen are being hidden in the bush in the wake of the crimes, making it very difficult for them to find physical evidence on suspects. “We are constrained by the ingenuity of the criminal," Jones added. Bodden explained that the gunmen already have an exit plan to avoid detection before they carry out the killing, as every criminal seeks out ways not to get caught. He sai thatd given those circumstance, the police depend heavily on what witnesses can tell them in order to make arrests.
Anyone with information about the victims, the gunmen or saw either of this week's fatal shootings is asked to call the police crime hotline as soon as possible on 949 7777.
Category: Crime
And to 14:40.. you see how some of my countrymen,( Caymanian) brains are as small as a pea. I am the poster of (21:37) and I did not say that I am Jamaican. Just because I came in defense of the island where I was educated does not mean I am against my country Cayman.
I am a Caymanian and not a paper one. My father is from the beautiful district of West Bay and my mom is from South Sound. BUT, if a writer says that they are moving back to Jamaica where it is safer… intelligent Caymanians like myself would thumb LOL. Instead, bloggers like yourself was ready to put down Jamaica. That is not called for.
You guys tend to have a very thick line of hate for foreigners. We need to stop it. That is why our children are killing off each other and later they will start killing the ex-pats too. Spread some LOVE. Now you are asking me, what I am doing here? I cannot go anywhere else. This is my country. As much years that I spent in Jamaica getting an education from being on JBC competing in School Challenge days to university, I now have to get a visa to visit sweet Jamaica. I love my island Cayman, but I love Jamaica too. My training and education in Jamaica have contributed to me being a Successful Caymanian.
To 7:49, I am here because I am a Caymanian and not a paper one. My mom is from South Sound and my dad is from the coolest district in Cayman, which is the beautiful district of West Bay. One set of my grandparents are from the Brac and another set are from Grand Cayman. I was educated in Jamaica because my island at the time was not equipped to do so. However, we need to collectively deal with our probs and leave Jamaica out of it. They are no Jamaicans gunning down our youths in my father's beautiful district of West Bay. They are our own young people who are filled with hate, jealousy and have missed the road to be a decent and proud citizen of my country, Grand Cayman.
18:25 you are a fool. Measure your country and actions by your problems and leave Jamaica out of this. Jamaica has it's own problems and do not need West Bay's problems to add to it. Deal with it!! Your own young people are out of control and your lousy people and police cannot stop them. In Jamaica we do not walk around and kill people for foolishness and it goes to show you that Caymanians killers are not real bad man.
Just wondering why not start with drug sniffing dog patrols at the airport and at the college on a random basis to be a deterrent to those who may be considering falling in line with what is too commonly occuring? If the bush that is on crown land or evn public land that seems to be hiding weapons, cut it down. The crime may not stop but certainly the radius of the vacinity in which it is occurring will become more narrow.
I find it poor that a bunch of uneducated thugs are able to run not circles but miles around a 400 man strong equipped Police Service. The quality of cases that are brought to court are not to standard because of a lack of wittnesses as that rarely is enough to get a conviction but due to the lack of any conclusive evidence that the Police fail to obtain and hence the crown cannot seek justice, To use the community as a scape goat is just wrong. It is largley the poor investigations that fail the greater community. I for one am tired of the RCIP pointing and blaming everyone else when in fact these matters are their charge.
It seems as if Cayman is spiraling into a cycle of crime and chaos that most people is contented to blame on the RCIPS and or government. Caymanians let us all wake up and be honest, often times as parents, close and extended family members, spouse and just members of the community we turn a blind eye and pretend not so see because it's our own or not our problem or concern. Well let me remind you crime should be all our concern and business, as I write here today sooner or later if it continues it will be OUR (inclusive of all) concern. We will not be as fortunate as our neighbours to be able to run elsewhere to avoid it the world has changed and we need to provide whatever information we might have to the authorities to right this wrong. Turn your own in if you have knowledge of any crime in doing so you might save many lives and by exension your own. Stop Crime! do the right thing and tell what you know.
It does indeed seem incomprehensible, that a bunch of morons can hold such a sway over such a minute area.
I emplore RCIPS to publish names and photos of those known (or "suspected" if you want to be PC) gang members, their girls, their assocaiates, their cars, etc. We need to know who these gang members are. Maybe we can help you more if we know who/what we are looking for.
Why are the police protecting the gang members identities? Give the public a little information to help protect ourselves from the cross-fire.
The gang members have published their identity themselves. Check Facebook!
Just a handful of these misguided young men, who are willing to add, "execution of fellow human beings, amateur murderer,' to their personal resume, are holding the entire country ro ransom, and are rapidly destroying all that their forefathers worked for over generations. No one will remember them and no one will care about them. They'll just be hated as the destroyers, a burden on their families and a curse to their fellow countrymen.
this is exactly the way Jamaica started out one murder per day then two per day & it kept climbing until it is now one of the highest murder rates in the world.
Cayman watch out we are all in for a very bumpy ride, if this epedemic is not halted soon & very soon,
Cayman will not be a place any of us want to live in & we will become like the other Caribbean Countries & no more desireable financiers wanting to invest here.
Last week alone gives Cayman the murder capital of the world trophy! Would you people leave Jamaica out of your mentions? Why not only eloaborate on the illiterates you have in WB killing each other ova foolishness. Jamaica has it's own damn problems. If this is the only way Cayman can get some recognition from the rest of the world that doesn't say much AT ALL!!!!!!!!
No one appears to be safe once they assist the RCIPS……
What "Witness Protection Program" do they have / offer?????
Is it possible that those being killed didnt previously assist the RCIPS ????
Further, do you hear any new combat directives being issued from the controllors of our Homeland Security officials, ie the Governor, the Commissioner AND the Govt ????
Do you see the RCIPS Task Force conduct road blocks in search for ammunition / weapons??? No you don't!! You know why???………the Commissioner dissolved the Task Force.!
Hmmmm………….I wonder if the reason why the Governor is silient on our homeland security is due to the "escape" in the 2009 Constitution (bold wordings below) ???
Functions of the Governor
31.—
(3) In the exercise of his or her functions under subsection (2), the Governor shall endeavour to promote good governance and to act in the best interests of the Cayman Islands so far as such interests are consistent with the interests of the United Kingdom.
No one appears to be safe once they assist the RCIPS……
What "Witness Protection Program" do they have / offer?????
Is it possible that those being killed didnt previously assist the RCIPS ????
Further, do you hear any new combat directives being issued from the controllors of our Homeland Security officials, ie the Governor, the Commissioner AND the Govt ????
Do you see the RCIPS Task Force conduct road blocks in search for ammunition / weapons??? No you don't!! You know why???………Commissioner Baines dissolved the Task Force..
Hmmmm………….I wonder if the reason why the Governor is silient on our homeland security is due to the "escape" in the 2009 Constitution (bold wordings below) ???
Functions of the Governor
31.—
(3) In the exercise of his or her functions under subsection (2), the Governor shall endeavour to promote good governance and to act in the best interests of the Cayman Islands so far as such interests are consistent with the interests of the United Kingdom.
Come forward??lol please that is a joke come forward for what so there lives can be in danger and who is gonna protect them the so called police as u can see they can't protect anyone and then what happens the gunman is charged then goes to trial to be found not guilty like prior criminals the justice system is a joke in Cayman this is why people are taking matters into there own hands….WAKE UP!
RCIPS know who is involved so why not round the gangs up, seal them all somewhere together (the derelict Hyatt seems a suitable option) with plenty of weapons and when the dust settles put the survivors in Northward for life – problem solved 😉
Dear Cayman,
It seems that it is very easy to blame one political side or another on this blog. That is what happened in Jamaica many years ago and they still cannot control their crime there- in fact it is now just a normal part of life (& death) there.
We need to ALL stand up and deal with this issue. The families who know your young ones are out of control and into crime- report them. The neighbours who have some information-report them. Your friends who are over the edge- report them. That is the only way forward.
And please UDP & PPM bloggers- drop the childish tit-for-tat blogs. BOTH sides are responsible for this situation, both have done far too little, both are to blame ( and many before them as well). So just cut out the nonsense here.
Get these criminals behind bars for good. Cayman will be a better place for both UDP supporters and PPM supporters but more imporatantly it will be better for all of US. Now stop blogging and make that call to Crimestoppers in Miami before the USA State Department places a Warning on travel to the Cayman Islands. That will not be easy to remove.
Thank you.
Caymanians for Good – you are spot on! For some of us everything has to be political. If one is looking to "blame" politicians, they would need to go back for a few decades, as THEY ALL failed. This is long past the political realm – we need to support each other and to do that we have to report ANY AND EVERYTHING we know. Crimestoppers are just waiting for the call.
That's why Cayman has these problems today as you are always quick to point fingers at someone else. Leave Jamaica out of this. This is Cayman's problems to be addressed by Cayman. FYI, Jamaica's crime rate is on the decline.
after how long though? its not a matter of pointing fingers, its a matter of "look out for what we're heading to"
MULTIPLE gunmen?
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
Dear H.E. Govenor , Hon Premier, and Mr. Police Commissioner,
This is a time to work together. Today, after your Sunday service you all need to set aside your own political agendas and arrange for an emergency Monday morning meeting with just the three of you to meet and make an action plan.
Our tactics are not working. Do not fault the UK style that the RCIP uses, this may have worked in the pastor overseas, but clearly our local thugs in a community of under 50,000 have found the weakest links in this method so this needs to be addressed, not defended. (Mr. Commissioner, it is time to change your tactic and accept help from special task forces that have successful weeded out gangs)
Mr. Governor, you are thehead of state representing the Queen and it is time you reached out to the entire commonwealth. Use your powers to recruit the help we need. (British Army if so deemed!)
Hon Premier, you are from West Bay and know the families that are harboring and benefiting from these gangs. It is time you called for an out-and-out deliverance of these thugs to police. You must tell the families, girlfriends, and gang wanna be's to turn in every weapon and stop the numbers games. (the mafia style gambling that has seeped into society is NOT acceptable and the root cause of the gang funding.) You must stop the numbers racket that is seen as socially acceptable to the middle class, but fuels the gangs. You must immediately pass an Anti-Gang legislation and arrest all gang memebers. Make it a crime to wear gange colors or be associated with a gang and make a prison term STICK for anyone proven to be in a gang, harbouring a gang member, or concealing any gang activity . Adopt Trinidad's 2010 anti-gang Bill. http://www.ttparliament.org/legislations/b2010h13.pdf
Only swift and hard action will do.
The advantage Cayman has is our size and location. Unless the criminals can swim to Cub, we should be able to root out and control this problem. We have a small population so throwing every police and political effort at this (immediately!) can solve this horrible problem.
The Police afraid of the criminals. Why? Because the criminals have guns and the Police do not!
The police may be afraid of the crininals but the police do have guns. It's just that they are not carried by all officers on an everyday basis.
I agree 100% with your statement. It must be de-moralising for our police officers to see that we expect them to go out in the islands and catch the criminals, but they have a night-stick to do battle while the criminals are armed with semi-automatic weapons. I still cannot understand why everyone runs down the police because they are not protecting everyone, but they are not issued the weapons to help clean up the crime, while the offenders have such sophisticated ones. It is insulting to the police for them to se that they are n ot being trusted with guns, while they are expected to battle the well-armed criminals. The tourism industry that we now enjoy, will not be around long enough to enjoy the new port that we are supposed to be getting, so someone should wake up now and do whatever is necessary to clean up Cayman.
Lots of Clues for RCIP read comments
Get started
Can anyone confirm that allegedly these 2 guys were just released from Prison ?
"confirm that allegedly"?
really?
It's hardly any wonder we are in the state we are in.
what 2 guys?
The West Bay Crime seen where our leader never moved a muscle on the criminal element that has now spread all over the Nation. Thanks to a see no evil government. The world is watching what the crime ridden Islands of the Cayman's leaders will do to protect Public Safety.
Two back to back murders in the same district where Mr. Bush calls home is out front showing the world that our leader is incapable of protecting us from criminals. They will be calling us "The Criminal Islands" of the British West Indies thanks to an incompetent leader. We can do better then this.
Let's stop asking “why don't the police” and start asking “why don't we…
Police officers are no more capable of preventing murders than firemen are capable of preventing fires, or doctors are at preventing illness. If that is our expectation then we need at least 1 officer assigned to each of us, and at least 2 more assigned to the officers themselves.
We the people, are in a much better position to improve our situation, than the police we are so quick to blame. Police officers are human just like us and they are capable of making mistakes too. They work for a salary just like us, some have good work ethics and others don’t. Even if they were all perfect, at most they can only 'contribute' to solving these crimes which they should… but will never restore the lives that have already been lost.
Competent or incompetent as they maybe, I dare say that not a single police officer in Cayman could prevent me or you from killing the person next to us if we really wanted to. The good values "hopefully" taught by our parents, grandparents, and the examples set by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, should hopefully be enough to prevent us from committing such acts.
We get all worked up when things like this happen and that's good. It shows that we are concerned and want things to improve so let's channel that energy in the right place.
My condolences to the friends and families affected by these and other tragic events.
God Bless
I completely agree that no person, including RCIPS officers, can prevent a murder unless the officer… is at the scene before the attack occurs. I also agree that persons should want to do the right things in life, but you did not say what options a law-abiding person should have when criminals invade the homes of the law-abiding to pistol whip…, or murder them.
If you plan on calling someone for help, you may first need to survive the attack against you.
Or you could decide to keep a gun in your house for self defence and increase the chance of one of the household dying from gunshot wounds by 500%.
Like a Derringer in our garter?
Hey! Please give the police some credit here. They are doing their best. Cayman is not like it was 20 years ago, we are no longer the island that is being forgotten. It is just like The Mighty Sparrow says in one of his songs"what the fuss about it happens in New York everyday". It is so sad but so true.
Most of these killings now has some gang affiliation as we well know and if anyone know anything about gangs they will take any and every territory they want. I feel they can be contained or to say the least dismantled if we are all work as one people, be our brother's keeper. When you see things you're not pleased with do something about it call Crime Stoppers, organize neighbour watches, community meetings to bring together ideas of how we can rid ourselves of these nuisance.Don't wait for the police to do everything because they can't.
The police needs to most certainly do some serious door to door checks, the law needs to accommodate them with the permissions they needs to search any home at any time. Alot of us know who they are, where they hang out, what car they drive, their friends start squeezing them for information make them talk. Maybe we need to seriously put the ones we know about on curfew from 6am to 6pm. If they are found outside of the house after that straight to jail for breeching their curfew. Police knows who they are but roping them in is another thing.
Parents need to have more positive influence on their children because if we knew who they all were probably 9 out 10 come from broken homes or haven't experienced any real love as a child or a strong bond within their family and this is what they have turned to violence.
Where are all these guns coming from? I know they are not dropping out of the sky.
Another thing whilst I putting my two cents in.What about the armed robberies? When are we going to put a ban on the "HOODIES" being sold in in the shops in Cayman? Don't we all see every damn robber out there has that as part of their dress code. We don't need to be selling hoodies in the tropics we experience nearly 95 degree weather every day of the year..
Maybe we can go to the stores and have a look at their cameras to see who is purchasing them this may help.
I heard letting the mosquitoes breed up is a crime fighting tactic so criminals cant go in the bush! it na working is "WestGhanistan"
WestGhanistan"
for the person saying criminals are exterminating themselves. Is;nt that wonderful and think that a nice thing to say isnt right cause if it was your family member i bet u wouldnt be talking like that. police are hunting? must be ghost cause they havent got a clue about who is up to these murders. I call them GHOSTBUSTERS cause they chasing ghost.
What a bunch of absolute morons. One has to wonder where they got the intelligence to acquire guns and ammunition. On both sides, no less. Perhaps they are sharing with each other? Your west Bayers are talking to you McKeeva. Would you please take your hands,(and your pitiful little brains) out of your pockets and start LISTENING?
Put a wall up an impose a curfue on West Bay
The word is "curfew". Seems like an island-wide curfew wouldn't be a bad idea!
put a curfue on yue
All of these crimes being commited and none being solved what's wrong with the picture here now?
Let's see …
1.) we have police officers who are afraid of the criminals #FAIL!
2.) they are more worried about giving people tickets for expired coupons #ANOTHER FAIL!
3.) they seem to pay no attention to the "thugs" aka "wannabe's" who are causing touble within our islands what they need to do is be more strick with the prison and jail time per crime for example: ( when caught with illegal drugs,weapons and firearms etc )
illegal drugs= 20 years imprisonment
illegal weapons = 30 years imprisonment
illegal firearm = 50 – 100 years imprisonment
hopefully that would scared their little a$$es and maybe they'll think twice about commiting a crime oh and cannot forget the forensics team bring in some proper crime scene investigators because I don't think the ones we currently have know exactly what there doing because as long as they have been around NO CRIMES HAVE BEEN SOLVED THAT THEY HAD TO DO INVESTIGATION FOR AND THAT'S FACTS!
And to make matters worst the people who actually get up off their a$$es and go to work are the ones suffering and if they were to defend themselves if they were attacked by these thugs the RCIPS would lock up the innocent citizens over the criminals.
I'm moving to Cuba where it's safer.
Plus free health care.
Viva La Cuba!
Fidel Castro Beard, what are you waiting on to eat rice for breakfast, rice and beans for dinner and beans and rice for supper. Free Health Care? I know you are joking, because cubans wh have free health care yes, but when they are sick and need medication there is none to get, and they get the poorest results unless they pay with CUC. Tell that to someone who does not know better.
It does appear that the police are way out of their league when it comes to this type of violence and organized gangs. Do not use the extra money you received to put your people out there more…use it to bring in experts from the states. They'll get it sorted.
Now for the family of the victims who blame the police..point that finger at yourselves..you raised, nurtured, excused and sometimes harbored these low lifes.
A little bit of insight…………as a close relative of the decesased let me enlighten the public on a few major factors to be considered and subsequently changed.
1. The PRIMARY problem with the RCIPS is not the officers themselves but more so the Commissioner. Many officers who do their jobs to the best of their ability have expressed on many many occassions the POOR and UNREALISTIC way in which the commissioner manages the force and their tactics. Until the government including the GOVENOR implement ways of fighting crime as it relates to Cayman and NOT the U.K the saga will continue.
2. Lets for a minute consider the role of the two most influential "gangs" that just so happen to sit within the Legislative Assembly. The individuals who we religiously voted in every four years. Lets for a moment reflect on the way in which they have and are now running this country, lets consider their mentality, their way of life and the way in which they handle both their personal and professional disputes. OK so now that you have taken a look at the bigger picture now ask yourself this….. how is it that we expect these same poor excuse for government representatives to in any way improve what now is our way of life ??????
3. Caymanians are our own worst enemy !!!, from the Caymanians who represnt us in Governement to the Caymanians who sit back and do nothing. Sooooooo many people have soooooo much to say but yet when we are called on as a people to unite and demand change the number of people who SHOW UP or STEP UP is pityful ! Like the above, until we as Caymanians AND residents of this island make an actual attempt to COLLECTIVELY demand and enforce change…the extreme and fatal criminal acts will continue.
I will end by saying this to those Caymanians, residents and government officials who are STUPID enough to believe that its just a matter of "letting them kill one another" and that will be that. I urge you to take enough interest in whats actually going on (as this is your country or place of residence) and utilize your God given gift called COMMON SENSE !! This is a cycle that will NOT end by these young men killing one another. As one dies, three more are recruited people ! STOP making uneducated comments due to ignorance. This ignorant mentality has greatly contributed to where we are today as a country and as people. Understand whats happening so you can understand the grave danger that WE are ALL exposed to.
If you live a life of crime be prepared to be a victim of crime. It's not the commissioner's fault, government's fault, your neighbor's fault, etc. God gave us all FREE WILL and the ability to use it. It's called choices and it is each and everyone's choice to be a criminal or be a productive member of society.
You said you are a close relative of a deceased.
I want to know, based on that statement whether you have spoken to the parents (your brother/sister/cousin) and whether they are proclaiming complete surprise at their child’s gang affiliation or whether they are admitting they knew. If they knew, why have they sat and done nothing? Fear of retaliation from their own child’s gang? Help us understand, please?
To 18:34 You are too jealous. Very jealous of sweet Jamaica. Since Jamaica is the worst place you have been, and you were there to get your paper work. Then tell me what were your paper work doing in Jamaica? You too jealous and badmind. I hope you loose you paper work.
Believe me, I wish I did not have to go to Jamaica to catch my Visa as that is the only reason I ever travelled there for. I am home in Cayman, what are you doing in Cayman if you really believe your home is ever-so-sweet. If I ever found myself with a Jamaican boyfriend, he would have to live here as me not livin there. Me "jealous and badmind"? No baby, I am ever so happy in my ever-so-sweet Cayman, thebest place on earth and don't plan to go live anywhere else, unlike you!
HELLO, we have to go to Jaimaica for US visas. I personally chose to go to the Bahamas which is much safer. went to Jamiaca 30 years ago and had a terrible time. Constantly badgered by people on the beach to buy drugs or wanting U.S. dollars. It was not a nice place to be – and if its so wonderful. Why are you here?
Gangs are nothing more than terrorists.
21:05 thats why the USA have the most terrorist in the world!!
sorry, per capita it's Caymanthat has the most terrorists…
So the criminals are exterminating themselves. Is;nt that wonderful.
Imagine we dont have to waste money on lenghty detention, trials etc only to release them back on the street.
Let them exterminate themselves and lets hope it happens very quickly.
why are we having this problem didn't the police say they knew who was doing these things?
It seems as if most already know, that the police are lost.
looking forward to reading about more scum killing each other over the weekend!
Is there a gang unit in the RCIP? I am sure after all these years and killings there must be plenty of info stored on these individuals.
The current commissioner is supposed to be an expert in the subject having worked in Greater Manchester, one of the worst areas of the UK for gang violence.
His RCIPS biog reads-
David restructured policing in Salford along the lines of the neighbourhood policing model he had developed in Oldham. Visible teams of officers were tasked with policing specific neighbourhoods in Salford. Each team was directly answerable to its particular community. Over time, this approach led to improved relationships, greater trust between police and citizens, and lower crime.
Why ain't it happening in Cayman David?
The criminals know that all they need is to request a judge alone trial and there is a strong possibility that they will be back on the streets in a flash. That is my belief.
The criminals will know that only if the case against them is weak. Youu seem to imply judges are intent on freeing criminals.
Simplest thing to do – GET THE FRIGGIN CAMERAS UP!!!!!!!!
What are we waiting on? Get….. the….. Friggin…. cameras…..up!! And have the police park and wait around there areas (I mean it not like they out and about all shift anyway and from what they did Vidette's I figuring the criminals know what time police take the naps at the office too).
Don't harass – observe and patrol…….let their movements be always present! Or wha happen? Is it because Police know that if they dared go into these places alone with a FLASHLIGHT and BATON chances are they will be the ones in a body bag?
Boy it not like the days when my father work in the force…..they were brave men back then and they not even had to deal with gangs yet…so imagine if they was around TODAY!!! A lil supapa they would pick up!!!!
I tell yah wha, feeling shame to be a west bayer now! I better change my name to "FLEEING THE COUNTRY"!!
Get the Cameras up? Yes they are putting up cameras but where are they pointing, at people,s grasspiece and at church parking lots. They are not putting them in the correct places.
Right! Cameras! The gun toting criminals are scared of cameras. I bet you have one for your front door. Not.
They would be scared of an informed and united community. Can you see that in West bays future? I don't think the gangs of west bay are scared of that happening any time soon.
Cameras? Really? I had a motion detection alarm on my front door the night I went out and the house got robbed. Found it in the bushes the next day and gave it to the cops who also got lots of fingerprints. Neighbors, police, friends all knew who it was but nothing was done and the cops lost my alarm. Good luck with the cameras and all the pictures of men with shirts covering their faces. Your going to need it.
SORRY—–BUT YOU CAN PUT UP ALL THE CAMERAS YOU LIKE AND THEY WILL NOT STOP WHAT IS HAPPENING!!!!.
The way to stop it is to have more plain clothes Police officers in unmarked cars on patrol. AND not in unmarked "BIG" white American cars that everyone will know is a Police car, use old cars, rusty heaps etc. and change them around, that way they can get close to where the problems are. What is the easiest way to catch bad drivers?, use unmarked cars. Streets in Georgetown should have more plain clothes officers patrolling.
The biggest problem the size of the Island, everyoneknows everyone!!!
Get real. I understand the need for the community to get involved in some matters but the Police know which two gangs are fighting. Do some Police work and bring them to trial with real evidence. Do not guilt the community into harms way by not doing what you are paid to do. These gangs have proven to have graduated to a higher level of violence and are the RCIP cannot stop most violent acts from happening. If the need for preliminary inquires were brought back in for certain crimes, most cases would never make it to trial. WIth that said how can you ask people to stand up and be counted against these animals when the average person in Cayman cannot protect themselves as Baines and policy have [prevented] everyone of a chance at reasonable self defense. You cannot bring a knife to a gun fight and the RCIP are brining pens and paper not counting the infamous USG. The USG are a small unit when counting the RCIP and they are the only ones in the service that can protect themselves if needed. We have whatthen 30 LEO's that can confront these thugs, only in fractions as they work shifts. Good lcuk with that. They cannot even catch two shooters with a chopper, 400 men, dogs, cars etc. The Chief Sup. needs to look at the big picture. Also there has been at least one drive by shooting in an apartmen complex not two long ago. SO the gang violence has started again long before these two murders. Do not even count the victims that were shot during robberies and almost killed. You do not have to be s fortune teller to see that coming to the Police or calling crime stoppers could very well put you and your loved ones in harms way. When dealing with gangs and the need for intimate information is needed, the pros need to step up and do what tehy are yacking about on the radios and TV. If someone in the community does step up and gives evidence then they need protection and face it, you cannot do that on an Island this small with the Police that are there.
Baines keeps asking for more money so he can build a real Police Service, XXXX thinking about his far fetched ideas and cheap talk. DO SOME REAL POLICE WORK AND DO WHAT YOU AND YOUR PEOPLE ARE CHARGED AND PAID TO DO> The cheap talk and whys this is going on is past time. Either Baines can produce or he cannot.
Get real evidence…. and there is the crux of the matter, because included in the description of real evidence is real independent factual eye witnesses, i.e people in the community who are not related or connected to the perpetrators in any way, who saw something or know something (as opposed to believe something or heard something on the marl road) and are the only ones in a position to drive that conviction through in court, alongside any other material evidence collected by the police. All of the recent court cases seem to have involved testimony from relatives and friends of the defendants. Had there been independent witness testimony all of these court cases could have turned out differently and we might actually have a few people in jail serving time for the various murders, robberies, and disappearances we have had over the last couple of years.
Yes the police could be more attentive in their evidence gathering, but even if they were, the crucial element is independent witness evidence to drive the convictions home in court. The community really do need to step up to the plate and play their part. If the criminals knew that both the community as a whole and the police were against their actions, then perhaps they might start to think twice and not be quite so brazen. Right now, they see no consequences and feel itseasy, because nobody is standing against them,
I went home for lunch today, and has to cross by the "Birch Tree Hill" Gang's hang out spot which is an unfinished cement wall under an almond tree, and the place has been absolutely EMPTY.
On regular days there are at least 4-6 of them hanging out on the wall, doing nothing all day long but being a pestilence to the neighbourhood, yet since Robert Bush's murder not one single one of them has been out there, the neighbourhood has gone completely quiet, and that only happens when these ticks and leeches are preparing to go out for blood. They are all most likely in hiding now, probably in a safe house somewhere like the one the Police raided last year on Rennie Ebanks Road, devising a plan for more retaliation against logwoods gang and vice versa.
Jones said "We are constrained by the ingenuity of the criminal,' Jones added “The police needs to get creative now. They can't use the law text book in these cases, they got to use their heads and think like they do.
If I'm not mistaken, if someone is under suspicion of being involved in a crime, they can be held for at least 72hours before being released even if they are not being charged. So I would suggest the police to start going to the houses of each gang member, pick them up and hold them for 72hours, question and squeeze every once of juice out of them and their families because they ALL know everything. Further more, if anything else were to happen when most of them are locked up for 72hrs, it would rule out at the time who was not the shooter,and the police will know that there are more associates out there besides the ones in holding. This will also help tighten the line of communication between gang members and make it harder for them to coordinate a hit, especially if most or all members of both gangs or locked up for the weekend, and unless they both end up in the same holding cells. That would be interesting, to see what would happen, so they can just take each other out and no innocent person will be involved and the police will definitely know who did what.
Whilst doing that, search each of their homes, lover's, girlfriends, baby-mamas and friends, hang out spots, find their safe houses, and all known associates and search high and low till you find those guns.
There is a high possibility that when cases like this occur, they don't keep their weapons in one spot and move them around, to avoid them being seized by police in a search. Therefore, every vehicle of friends, family and known associates should be searched. Also they should amp up road blocks in West Bay as a whole and actually search the cars properly, under cars, under the spear tires etc etc.I wouldn't be surprised either if they have their weapons buried under ground in the bushes near their homes, built compartments all over the place, hidden in furniture, attic spaces, in the box springs of their beds, hidden under big rocks, in abandon houses or cars, there are a few in WB, maybe even in the bushes and holes of the iron shores along the WB coast near the Turtle Farm, or even in boats parked in theirs yards or anchored close by off shore.
Anyway I hope some of these ideas help the police if they haven't come up with them already. And don't forget to tap some phones this weekend!
I wish I had more thumbs to put up for this post.
I agree with you, but it seems at least one gangsta owns a computer.
Great comments yes, but we might as well take the thumbs up and plug-you-know-what because the Police ain't reading well thought out ideas.
And some of these same west bayers who crying for peace, will be balling harrassment when there "Nice little boy/brother/nephew/daughter's boyfriend" get's rounded up for 72 hrs.
Some of you don't understand. The safest place for your BAD BOYS is in jail. If they are on the street they are cannon fodder- marked for death because of their Gangsta Life.
Cat, you couldn't have said it any better and I will add that I'm positive to say that many of the so called girlfriends who are really prostitutes and baby mamas of these gangsters are the ones who are hiding things for them and supplying drugs and guns, being false alibis, encouraging their worthless and violence actions and also setting up many of the victims. Blackberry phones need to be tapped or confiscated from the gang members as they are their main source of communications. RCIPS needs to get urgent help and do more raids in all hotspots across Cayman but in particular WB especially in areas frequented by gang members. I'm from WB and I feel really sad what is occuring yet this has been on the horizon for many years as we turned a blind eye to a lot of this ill will behaviour of our young men and today this what we're reaping.
Patrol the Barkers and East End coastline 24/7 and monitor any activities that is going on their as this is where the majority of drugs and gunsare coming in from, I told the Police of suspicous activities occuring there and all they do is drive to Pappagallo and turn around, so their scared. Just back in April I saw a group of youths in a car around sunset and as I approached they blew their horn so I decided to turn back as my gut instinct told me something isn't right. Now if the RCIPS would put up CCTV cameras and be vigilant then they'll catch more gang members and be aggressive quit being passive with these nuisances.
Blessings to all
16:54 I have put up all thumbs on my fingers and all thumbs on my toes for your comment, because it is the most sensible to read. But will the Commissioner of police read it and take advice. No he is to hard headed and want to do it his way. It is not working, and there is going to be a revolution in Cayman if the commisioner do not start charging people for these crimes. Even if the little bastards get away, lock them up. Back in the day police hold you on suspicion, and when the time was up they let you out, and picked you up before you had supper and locked you up again.
Thank you & Ken P for you're positive comments and support to my suggestions. I really do hope and pray as well that commissioner reads this and uses it. I'm even considering printing it out and carrying it to him myself, because I am more than 100% positive that the police do not really think out side the box during their searches, and dealing with these parasites. That's why Jones is telling us their constrained. Yes criminals do in many cases operate within their comfort zones which in some cases make them a little predictable, but unlike the police these fools do not use textbooks to operate and they don't behave or operate within the confines of our laws or anyone else's. They are very flexible but that does not mean that the police's options are ever stiff either. They can use search warrants that can or will allow them to do abusotely anything necessary to gather all evidence,capture them and have all evidence admissable in court to secure a conviction,stake outs, undercover ops,phone tapping,home bugging,CI's (confidential informants) video/audio surveillance or even go as far as placing GPS trackers under their vehicles,or follow them around. We do have that technology inthe world that is used on a daily basis in the states and else where so its not like their hands are tied. They simply need to bring in the technology, a person who knows how to operate it and get started. We would be pretty much crime free by now,if the police would be proactive and more creative with their crime fighting. Criminals think crazy and the police better start thinking like it too.
To the police. If you believe the guns are being hidden in the bush and surrounding areas, patrol them with dogs, and hopefully you can sniff them out as you did in Red Bay recently.
To the public – the police can't secure a successful conviction based on heresay (he said/she said) or speculation. If you know ANYTHING at all, don't leave it to a next person to say, say it yourself. If you're afraid, use a public phone at a distant location and ring in your information anonymously as I realise all too well your fears, but we have to do something NOW before anyone else dies, and god forbid, another child or innocent person get caught in the crossfire.
Stop blaming the police and the judicial system. Start blaming yourselves if you know something and are saying nothing. To the families of these boys, you know they're not the angels you want them to be, you are fearful they may be involved – SPEAK UP before you lose them to gunfire too.
The guns are not being hidden in bushes, they are being transported in the criminals' cars and the police will never know this as they're only checking for expired tags when they stop motorists.
I like your blog along with a few other, who do not only find the negative things to talk about but you have put forward positive ideas. Only one thing, where are the telephone call boxes that are working now located? I have checked a few and I have not found any that works in any location outside the cruise ship landing sites, which may not be private enough for some people to make these type of call from, if they were afraid in the first place to make the call from their own phone. May be the phone companies could help with this, they also have a roll in this to help to keep our Islands safe which in turn keep buisiness coming in for them.
Not sure if these phones are working, but when I was on the island…there were pay phones at Royal Palms, at the gas station almost across the street from RP(taking a left out of the parking lot), 1 outside Eats, 2 right on the street in a little plaza with a clothing store across the street from the Ritz? . Those were all working. Did not have my cell when I was down there and had to depend on payphones……not easy, but do-able.
Good point.
Dear RCIP, the girlfriends, mothers, aunties are afraid to use their own phones to call in tips so 1-800-TIPS is not going to work for gang related tips. These "Boyz" keep their "Girlz" close at hand to do their bidding and keep an eye on who they call.
We need the technology of Digicel and LIME to work with the police! We need a campaign that ANY tip, name, address, location, ect….can be called in FREE of Charge and without record from ANY Digicel or LIME store. This public realtions campaign would work (and be rolled out to other islands too)….. Even the bad guys can't keep an eye on their "girls" at EVERY TOP-UP LOCATION….
The ICTA needs to wake up and start monitoring the traffic volune of calls during the hours leading up to gang escalation and then the event.
Come on….we simply have to be smarter than these thugs.
By the way, I've lived here for 19 years and had no idea we had "named gangs". I hope the next generation of young people will have something better to do with their lives (and SHAME on the familes).
They can call from a pay phone. Being caught up in the drama is no help at all…
Have Mac create a law for gang association with a 10yr minimum sentence and go after them with that, if the frivilous friends and family won't give the rats up! Marlon keep the pressure on bo bo!!
That law already exists. It is just that the legal department seems unable to enforce it . Don’t feel bad though, there is a tendency to ignore laws around here.
Then we should extend the courtesy of this law to include Friends & Family. Make it a package deal! Take a bus down to the WB and pack the rats in! Shoot if you sprinkle a lil Thyme on the foor they'll probably all jump in thinking they can smoke it! 🙂
I think we should demand a clear and unequivocal answer from the authorities as to why our
Laws are not enforced. If it is due to incompetence, then the incompetent should be fired. If it is because of corruption, the corrupt should be prosecuted. If it is because they are unenforceable then they should be changed immediately.
Identifying the gang members is easy. They have Facebook pages for Christ’s sake!
That law is already there.
I'm surprised that those who proclaim themselves to be expert RCIPS leaders and investigators; cannot take control of an area with crime no bigger than 10 square miles, that is……. Boatswain Bay – Hell Road and Birch Tree Hill in the Wild Wild West.
I'm assuming the important lesson being taught at Bramshill Police College on that particular day, all were absent and may have been elsewhere instead. (Pub ??) If you can't take control of crime in this small area, then the balance of about 90 square miles that make up the Cayman Islands, are absolutely doomed in terms of dealing with other criminal activity such as Attempt Murders, Robberies, Burglaries etc.. etc.
Big Mac, its "high time" you try and get in touch with William "Bill" Bratton or Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Arizona USA to quell the violence here in the Cayman Islands.
These guys have totally lost it and no extra $4 milion will solve the problems anytime soon.
Bramshill is a joke, based on my dealing with the police over the last 10 years it has sold out solid policing to political correctness.
In the UK almost all public servants are now locked into a 'box ticking' exercise if they want to make promotion so take training courses that aim to hit specific, and very limited, paper objectives without any obvious connection to the real world. Bramshill is part of this system. As an example very few senior UK police officers are firearms trained but they are taught to make all the excuses under the sun for fowling up their jobs while actually retaining some (not much!) credibility.
The other problem with UK policing is the well-established 'fast tracking' policy that rewards academic achievement (even if it has absolutely no relevance to the job – one notorious senior officer made his way up the ladder with a degree in zoology!) rather than practical experience.
Bottom line – if you want deal with gang problems recruit police from the USA, Jamaica, the former Soviet Union, South Africa or even places like Haiti but not from the UK.
So the feud between the Logswood and Birch Tree Hill gangs has resumed! This is a simple case to handle: Just have a search warrant issued by Justices, and search every household, rake every yard, and empty every pocket in the Logswood and Birch Tree Hill area. Police need to do a clean sweep, and anyone found with a gun or offensive weapon, put behind bars. Enough is enough!
I'm moving to Jamaica where it is safer.
Oh really, jamaica was more safer??? I was in jamaica to get paper works and it was the worse place Ive ever been to.
You clearly haven't travelled much – even within Jamaica.
Me thinks you need to look up the definition of saracasm.
i see that you have only been to the Brac clearly!!!!!!!!
Jones stated, "could not just simply pluck people up of the streets without evidence." I call out RCIPS on this, there are laws on the books against loitering andthe like. At the very least police could stop and talk with people who look suspicious. You don't have to arrest the criminals, but by stopping and talking to them, you can at least make them either know they are being watched or if they run you can arrest them for fleeing.
I call BS on this one as well, "there was little they could do about the quality of the evidence that comes to them". There is a LOT you can do, start by using technology available today to do some real crime scene investigations, perhpas bringing in experts from large cities in the US or Canada as it is obvious whatever you have been doing is NOT working. I would suggest starting with actually picking up the bullets when found, how many bullets have we seen left at crime scenes. I can think of three times off the top of my head.
let's put all these gang members in a ditch and let them take eachother out so cayman is safe for all us law-abiding folks again. thanks.
As long as they are killing off themselves I don't personally have a problem with it. At this rate we should soon be rid of the nuisances, after all, the police can't seem to get the matter under control anyway. At least, this way, the gangs are removing themselves from the community in their own way and it seems to be working fine. So why complain. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Marlon, don't stress urself…leave them to get rid each other. They are giving the RCIP and easy way out and doing us common folk a favor. Just continue to drive around in your new cars, eat patties, sleep in your parked off vehicles, chat on your cell phones etc. and take two hours to arrive on a crime seen in GT…business as usual.
Don’t appeal for calm – give them all guns and whiskey and let’s be done with this crap once and for all!
But even though they get the suspects behind bars, they still end up on the street. How many unsolved crimes (murders) do we have in Cayman since 2003?
"We are constrained by the ingenuity of the criminal,' Jones added"
Then go find a job that you are competent to do. If you cant catch criminal, find another field of work!!!
Why dont the police get departmet of inviromental health to clean up up all the bush they suspect guns are bein hidden into. but my biggest question is WHY DONT THE GOVERNOR AND PREMIER OF THESE ISLANDS SEND THESE CRIMINALS TO SERVE THEIR TIME SOMEWHERE ELSE. I will cost cheaper than keeping them here, and the risk of them harming someone or escaping is low. Will the Premier and Governor make these recommendations. Because the public is scared as hell even if they are locked in prison, we do not want these criminals on the island period.
Let's stop asking why don't the police and start let's start asking why don't we…
Police officers are no more capable of preventing murders than firemen are capable of preventing fires, or doctors are at preventing illness. If that is our expectation then we need at least 1 officer assigned to each of us, and at least 2 more assigned to the officers themselves.
We the people, the parents, the so called friends of these victims are in a much better position to improve our situation, than the police we are so quick to blame. Police officers are people just like us and are capable of making mistakes. Even if they were perfect, at most they can only contribute to solving these crimes which they should… but will never restore the lives that have already been lost.
Competent or incompetent as they maybe, I dare say that not a single police officer inCayman could prevent me or you from killing the person next to us if we really wanted to. The good values "hopefully" taught by our parents, grandparents, and the examples set by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, should hopefully be enough to prevent such acts from happening.
We get all worked up when things like this happen and that is good. It shows that we are concerned and want things to improve so let channel that energy in the right place.
If we truly believe police officers are so incompetent, let's make some of these positions redundant by being better citizens, and reduce the need for them in the first place. Let's first strive to be better God fearing individuals, then better families, and we will undoubtedly be a better Country.
My condolences to the friends and families of these and other tragic events.
God Bless