Cayman ‘let down’ by UK
(CNS): Although the majority of Caymanians want the islands to remain a territory of the United Kingdom, many feel that in recent years the relationship has not been a positive one and the UK has let Cayman down. The committee tasked with collecting the opinions of the people about the future of the relationship for a new UK white paper revealed their findings in a report of its review published Friday. Among their many other findings, the report reveals a clear contradiction that the committee said would be difficult to balance. On the one hand there is a strong desire for more local autonomy from the British but on the other hand the people want the UK to act as a stronger check on their own government.
Although only a few people believed that the UK-Cayman relationship had broken down completely, many believed that the UK had not represented Cayman’s best interests on the international stage, with the parties appearing to be at “loggerheads”.
Among the many issues the review uncovered was the belief in the community that when the Cayman Islands came under pressure from the international financial community, it was let down by a failure on the part of the United Kingdom government to fully represent the interests of Cayman and protect them where necessary.
However, the report also found that people believe the relationship with the UK creates an image of stability for the financial services industry and there were concerns that steps towards the independence of the Cayman Islands would almost certainly result in a major loss of confidence in the sector.
During the review the committee saw that Caymanians were interested in pursuing not just a “greater awareness of precisely what the United Kingdom can provide by way of assistance”, but also ways in which this relationship could be nurtured and become more productive.
“An improved relationship is likely to require a process of mutual education, with the United Kingdom and its people needing to learn about and better understand the various Territories and their distinct features; as opposed to a one-way process where the people of the Territories merely had to come to terms with what the United Kingdom prescribes,” the report stated.
Like the findings of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the United Kingdom Parliament, the reviewers said people want the UK and Overseas Territories relationship to be based on something more than an annual meeting of the Overseas Territories Consultative Council. "Properly consulting and representing the Overseas Territories in issues that affect them is an important part of creating the type of ‘modern partnership’ which may prevent the need for direct intervention,” the report said.
The committee found a significant contradiction in the community, with a desire for more control for Cayman to govern itself but at the same time more checks on the potential excesses of those elected to office and the administrative arm of government.
“What is sought is an additional check on local governance as part of the overall balance in the constitutional arrangements,” the report revealed, while at the same time seeking greater local autonomy. “In some senses these may well be straining in different directions, although there is nothing to say that more local autonomy could not be ceded, while at the same time establishing a relationship that effectively builds in the necessary controls.”
Although not expressed in technical terms, the option of a free association agreement, somewhat akin to the position in Bermuda, which has not previously been made available to Cayman, was an idea commonly put forward in the wider community, the committee found.
When it came to good governance, the report says that the community welcomes and wants greater transparency and accountability from its government. “This sentiment was manifest both in the context of procurement and in the operation of boards and committees appointed by government," the report said, adding that the people called for elected officials and senior civil servants to be subject to enhanced provisions to reveal and prevent conflicts of interest.
The review heard calls for more stringent application of anti-corruption laws and increased checks and balances to be enshrined in the constitution because, the public said, even the perception of corruption is potentially damaging, not least because this can deter investment and inhibit development.
Many people also said the formalization of party politics is a problem for Cayman as it is too small to sustain two or more different parties. The party system was described as too divisive, feeding patronage and creating unnecessary animosity. But the people also made it clear they want more political say and that it was important to engage people in the political process. There were evident concerns “that people need to be free to express themselves without fear of victimization and intimidation.”
When it comes to economic development, the report reveals there are suspicions of the concessions provided to the so-called “big names” and there was a call for more support for small business and innovation.
There is a desire to enhance the relationship between the Cayman Islands and the United Kingdom, the report found, and an interest in greater local governance, while at the same time ensuring that every necessary check is in place to guarantee that there is good governance and transparency.
The report will form the basis of the Cayman Islands premier’s position on behalf of the Cayman people when talks about the new white paper begin in London this week at the Overseas Territories Consultative Council. The UK has also received feedback from all its territories via the open website, which has enabled everyone to freely comment about the future of the UK and its last remaining territories.
Premier McKeeva Bush said Friday that he would present a copy of the report to Henry Bellingham, the UK’s FCO minister with responsibility for the territories, as well as his colleagues at the council meeting. Since the aim of the exercise is to improve and strengthen Cayman’s relationship with the UK, Bush said Cayman was willing to change, such as in areas of procurement, but “we are not going to sit still or be taken advantage of,” he added.
See full report below.
Category: Politics
Sorry, don't get it. More autonomy but more oversight of the local government by the UK? Can't have both of these at the same time. Sounds like the typical Caymanian attitude of wanting the best of both worlds, having your cake and eating it too, having lots of econimic growth but no ex-pats. Time to pick one alternative and live with the consequences.
My fellow Caymanians,
Debates like these simply prove our exceptional standing and status of desirability in the world today.
Do you think the "opposition" would spend as much time, money and effort over the future plight of some back'a'yad, unstable, disease infested, crumbling craphole of a nation?
Never in our existence were we EVER in such a state.
Even in our darkest and poorest days we were respectable, upstanding, clean and civil people.
Our economic "boom" was founded on our reputation of a "warm and friendly" people. Considering the global events of that time this was very admirable of us as a community.
The reason why we are so under attack today is because certain people know that their OWN COUNTRIES have FAILED (just look around folks) and they are hoping for the opportunity to come and stay here forever.
*And they don't even have the common decency to be grateful for the chance. No, instead many demand for us to "change" our ways … in our country!?
Most are even looking forward to raising their children and forthcoming generations right here on this little "backwards" rock as opposed to their OWN COUNTRY! (Think about that for a moment.)
How many Caymanians do you know that hope to carry out similar plans in another man's land?
The very fact that we are engaged in this ridiculous bickering is all we need to understand that we have already won the battle.
Stand up Cayman … ignore these jealous idiots.
– Whodatis
I can never tell if you are being sarcastic or not. Are you an expat with a dry sense of humour?
Then you must be dense.
You sound very emotional. Unfortunately, we need them (expats) more than they need us. Let us not brand all expats as bad apples. Be careful now. There are good Uk citizens on this rock that mean Cayman and their families well. Whilst we must stand for our rights, we have to do so, respecting those who are helping to build our country into a good one.
Re: "Let us not brand all expats as bad apples."
Nowhere in my post did I suggest such a thing.
Furthermore, I am the product of a Caymanian + Expat union. Fortunately, that particular "expat" didn't share the mindset of the type of expat that I happen to be addressing in my initial post.
(There are good and bad within every group, just as we shouldn't brand all as "bad", neither should we brand all as "good".)
Re: "There are good Uk citizens on this rock that mean Cayman and their families well."
I completely agree with you poster, however amongst those are the type that have clearly shown their true ugly colours right here on CNS.
Simply read for yourself – these are their words, not mine.
I have notice that everytime this Government (UDP) run these Islands, there is so much talks of independents, and talks about the UK not helping Cayman. When PPM was running these Islands from 2005-2009 there was none of this foolish talks of independents, which is reckless of us to think of letting go UK. Yes they have very strict rules, thank God they do, it is to make sure these Islands are Govern properly. Just recently they demostrate their concerns for the Cayman Islands by putting a clamp down (FFA) on this Governmernt reclkess spending from the publics purst. if mother country UK never cared about us, they would not have put these rules in place.
Everytime UK tightens their belt on us, the people of Cayman jumps out and talks about independents, and how UK wants to impose more tax on them, and that the UK don't care about them. This attitude upsets me, when the people of Cayman don't appreciate what the UK is doing for them. People of Cayman you all need to understand what UK is requesting of these Islands, and that they want to see Cayman in a better financial position. They also want this Government to be more transparent and control their spending and cut down the cost, whether it is to cut Civil Servants, lower their own income per month, or cut down the duties or whatever it is to get Cayman back on the road. So far, all this Government had done is only increase the cost of doing business in these Isalnds, by raising the Pernit Fees, the duties, the cost of fuel, etc. So mother country had to step in and said enough is enough.
Please people of Cayman, stop the talks of independents, accempt the rules of the mother country, and give God thanks that you all have the UK to watch over these Islands, which is a British Territory, and remember that they have all the say, but they do welcome the people of Cayman to express their comcern of what is going in these Islands to them.
LOL
The headlines should read "The people of Cayman let down by the Caymanian Government", stop laying blame every where else!!!
Stammrering is normally associated with speech, however it seems to happen with writing too nowadays.
I am tired of the attitude expressed in Cayman that the UK is not doing enough for Cayman and Caymanians. 30,000 people is a drop in the ocean of UK policy. Cayman has benefited massively from remaining an OT. It is like the Monty Python "what have the Romans ever done for us?" sketch writ large.
I am disgusted by the abuse of non-Caymanians, especially British and other EU citizens, by a discriminatory regime that has been shown too much tolerance by London. We should exert national powers, through the leverage created by Cayman's debt position. The position of the UK at the last constitutional round was too weak, allowing exemptions from fundamental human rights to maintain economic apartheid and to uphold a limited rights regime to pander to homophobia.
The UK should take back power or extend the local franchise and maintain its reputation as a protector of rights and democratic values. If Caymanians do not like that, then there is always a door marked "Independence". Don't kid yourselves, the UK does not care if Cayman wants to go though that door, because right now as far as many British citizens living here we see Cayman as more of a parasite than an ally.
"economic apartheid". Agreed. Practised against the Caymanians that is. There are no "exemptions from fundamental human rights" here. What we have are unreasonable demands for power from expats like you who would wish to marginalise Caymanians in their own country.
I'm not sure on what basis you determine that "there are no exemptions from fundamental human rights here", given that positive discrimination is built into the immigration laws in Cayman and whether you like it or not, discrimination based on nationality is viewed as a breach of human rights elsewhere, particularly in the EU.
There is also an inference in your post that the existence of laws here to establish certain human rights equates to all persons being treated in accordance with those laws. If only life was that simple there would be no crime in this utopia either.
I do not agree with all the points in the original post to which you object, but neither do I agree with your view that the desire of individuals to be treated in accordance with the laws of the this country and in accordance with human rights as widely accepted outside of Cayman marginalises Caymanians. They are called human rights, not Caymanian rights and if the desire to see those rights properly enforced is an "unreasonable demand" maybe the original poster has a point after all.
O’Really – please explain to me how an unskilled Jamaican or American can get a work permit to work in Europe. Then tell me if it is easier for them to get a work permit here. Then lecture me and my fellow Caymanians on human rights – until then I regret you will be viewed by me as someone who causes regrettable divide in the once peaceful community that welcomed you in.
Let me explain something to you. You do not have a human right to live or vote in Cayman if you are not a full citizen. You have the right to live and vote wherever you are a citizen.
Most intelligent post on the human rights issue yet. Thank you.
What a silly comment. Clearly when it comes to the right to vote, stand for office, immigration etc. every country has the right to discriminate in favour of its citizens. That is not unlawful discrimination and it is certainly within the margin of appreciation where there is a small territory whose citizens are outnumbered by migrant workers. The idea that because the UK with a population of 61m allows 20,000 Caymanians right of abode in the UK by granting the British Citzenship Cayman with should be required to allow 61m Brits (plus hundreds of millions of other EU citizens) the right of abode in Cayman is obviously unreasonable. Preposterous actually. There is no real equivalence at all. Talk about an entitlement mentality.
You have yet to establish that there are any "exemptions from fundamental human rights" here.
In order to quash some these insane ideas completely Cayman needs to remove itself from the EU Other Countries and Territories like Bermuda has. Most of us will happily renounce British Citizenship if necessary even though it was granted on a non-reciprocal basis and a demand for reciprocity would be duplicitous.
So you disagree with some of the poster's comments as well but you saw fit to challenge only mine.
This is a good rant, but really, where have you refuted any of the points I made? Throw in a few red herrings as they relate to my post and use the wonderfully pretentious " What a silly comment", learned I'm sure at the knee of an expat lawyer and the job's done I guess.
Clearly you were unable to refute any of my points and therefore resorted to ad hominem.
lol… I expected nothing better from O' boy there
Sorry… but I have to fully agree with 'British Citizen's' comment. If we want to fly the British Flag and call ourselves British then we must upload British Values- particularly relating to human rights. As a FULL BORN & BRED Caymanian I was and remain disappointed and to some extent disgusted that the UK did not exert its national power and force the Cayman Islands into implementing equal rights and opportunities for everyone. This applies to all OT's. Like my mother always says… "S**t on the (British) pot or get off of it (Independence)!"
We did. They are contained in the Bill of Rights in our new Constitution which fully implemented the ECHR. I think you are missing the concept of "margin of appreciation".
I can assure you the new UK constitution of Turks and Caicos does not incorporate the ECHR, common laws, Bill of Rights and it expressly excludes the right to trial by jury. Read it for yourself, it's on the parliament website. Read the opinions by dissenting judges on why it is a calamity of justice on those points alone. Then read the part that calls for expat residents getting citizenship and full voting rights outnumbering the Belongers' votes and the new crown land ordinance that will give UK full control over all land, even existing ownership.
Democracy is dead in TCI and colonialism is alive and well. BTW: The new constitution instead of recolonization does not give them rights as a British citizen nor do they have representation in UK parliament.
Cheers!
Did you post under the wrong post? You do realise that my post was about the Cayman Islands Constitution, right?
I did not post under the wrong string. You think you're safe with your new Caymanian constitution? Think again. The new UK White Paper will allow UK to rewrite your constitution and it will look just like Turks and Caicos'. They will rewrite it without a referendum by Cayman citizens. Cheers!
I had a look. Thanks for your perspective.
I doubt that you are really what you claim to be. I find it difficult to believe that a real Caymanian could possibly be so stupid.
"British values" as in their treatment of the Chagossians? SMH.
Your doubts of me being a Caymanian can be attributed to the fact that I am a young, highly educated Caymanian who is forward looking in the current and future relationship which the Cayman Islands has with the United Kingdom and no longer concerned with the UK’s past failures. This evidently contrasts with your intellectual capacity and genetic composition- hence your inability to associate me as a Caymanian! My comment here specifically references human rights and in particular the lack of protection afforded to the LGBT community as identified by the original poster, 'British Citizen.' Don't test me bobo- I’ll run circles around you!
I am also a young, highly educated Caymanian. I am amused by your assumption that I am not and that you can "run circles around" me.
The LGBT community is not entitled to have any special rights. It has the same rights as everyone else.
"This evidently contrasts with your intellectual capacity and genetic composition".
Did you pick this gem up from Mein Kampf?
The situation of the Chagos Islanders is not merelya "past failure". It is very much in the present. You should use some of that high education to get acquainted with the issue. Wikileaks was very revealing about current mindsets.
"Upload" British values or uphold them? Different things entirely…
"S**t on the (British) pot"
I agree. LOL.
Calm down there chap. Where will the City hide the FTSE 250's taxes? Where will you earn more than you ever could in London? We aren't going anywhere…
I dread the thought of a British takeover with no aim to "protect the rights and [direct] democratic values" of all Caymanians. And I am afraid that the British government, holds a bad report card in their hands. The British takeover of Turks and Caicos Islands, under the now UK dictatorship, has not convince me and the intelligent community that they mean the inhabitants any good. Just read the TCI Sun and see the wording orclauses of their new Constitution… speaks volumes
People like you make me sick; if Cayman is such a parasite then why are you here you egotisical idiot! you and many of your class would never have the life in the UK that you currently enjoy here, and you can take that to the Bank.
Problem is he will probably not only take it to the bank but probably take the bank with him
Da naw all dhey doin ma louw.. Unna need ta gougle Subliminal Harassment. Ahm,talk bout a eye stretcha dat is.. You know all dem pretty man's,driwin all dem pretty cazzz, in wearin all dem pretty neck tiez..? Yea mi louw.. all da money,in still gaw time fah all da idolness.. A know day naw runnin me na my peep's from roun ya.. or t-fin me ta go tell people bout how much day tief in how good it was.. Not me ma louw.. you could tell di wurrrlllll dat.
Do you realize how pathetic you sound encouraging a supposed "super power" to bring down the hammer on this tiny speck of an island nation?
Just goes to show just how faded British glory has become.
Quite funny actually.
Anyway, the UK has enough on its plate as it works to repair its failing society.
Even its supposed "best and brightest" no longer wishes to remain there … they're all flocking to places like Cayman.
:o)
Show us your seat on the security council. What? You don’t even have a seat at the UN? Ah well ask me about our “what it’s like to be a country” specials.
Parasite?????. You sound like one of those who are here sucking up our caymanian blood and blaming us for using the worm medicine to try to stop you. Before you call anyone a parasite, take a good look at yourself. If you look like a human being then in your own words you are a PARASITE.
How dare you talk about abuse of British by Caymanians when Britain unilaterally changed our status from Citizen of the UK and Colonies to BDTC simply to REMOVE our right of abode in the UK! Why? Because the UK had immigration concerns. Now we have immigration concerns but the UK no longer has those concerns and the shoe is on the other foot. The hypocrisy of the British never ceases to amaze me. Pretending as though they have some moral high ground. Go hide your face in shame. D*mn cheek!
I suggest then, you hand your British Passport back in disgust, apply for your Jamaican passport if you were born pre 1962 and continue to talk about the good old days.
You have got your history a little muddled. Pre-1962 there was no such thing as a Jamaican passport and I was never a Jamaican citizen.
You are deliberately missing the point.
Ah let me tell you what,it is high time the entire institution that is the UK be brought before the World Court. Not only on matters of recent but a chronological account of it's past. In the hope of bringing to an end the morbid pompousness that goes hand in hand with the concept of the Golden Rule. "Whoever has the Gold rules".
Lets see…
Under the United Kingdom
or
Under Darth Vader with Darth Sidious using the Force against us from the dark recesses of the dreaded Death Star…
The UK any day, Bobo.
Born and Bred Caymanian
There we go blaming someone else for our problems again.
So whos to blame for the bad policing?
Lets hope the UK can do wihat those West Bayers have failed to do for many years, i.e. take Bush out!!
Reading these posts makes me feel as if I am in the Twilight Zone.
Are we really holding these perspectives against the backdrop of Cayman vs. UK in relation to good governance, fiscal responsibility, democracy and anti-corruption?!
One thing about those Brits … they have done a stellar job on erecting a ginormous operation of smoke and mirrors.
(Of course I am discounting those that actually know better and act dumb for the sake of posing an argument and saving face.)
I have a feeling that the million+ unemployed Brits under the age of 25 would beg to differ with many of the comments on here. As would the almost 20% of British children that are growing up in workless households. And by golly, let us not forget the tens of thousands of NATIONWIDE rioters, looters, arsonists, murderers and anti-police assailants of just a few weeks ago. (How quickly we forget huh?)
However, the thousands of New Dehli-based Barclays Bank and Norwich Union etc. call-center staff members would probably support a lot of the posts on here today.
(To this day I am crippled with laughter as I recall the questions for a telephone motor insurance quote a few years back. "Yes sir … so, you 'vant to insure a Jaguar XKR? Would that being' the 3 or 5 door version sir?")
Eh?!
Yep … this is the country that is now in the middleof a job shortage crisis.
Cayman is far from perfect however let us at least try to keep some perspective here people.
Open your eyes. Research the true situation in regards to the issues relevant to this debate. Don't be bamboozled by hollow and rose-tinted words on a webpage.
Whodatis, what in the world are you talking about? Could you just get to the point already!
Dear Ann,
If you find yourself completely confused after reading my post I doubt you will understand even if I take the time to break it all down line by line.
However, feel free to highlight the areas that are proving problematic for you.
Who, you are always in a parallel universe. By entering the Twillight Zone you might actually be moving substantially closer to reality.
In fact nothing in this post is difficult to understand,but the replies to itdoes reinforce the first thing that you put in brackets. I love it. Accurate,good job Who.
How many of you are sick of the propaganda bloggers trying to turn over Cayman to the UK masters? How much are they paid, who pays them to say such nonsense and have they picked up a history book to logically discern the UK has no skills to manage and no moral authority.
BTW: How many of you know that the Cayman trench is home to the most powerful natural resource in the world, deep water volcanic vents. Duh!
The cronies who are benefiting and 2 or 3 other people with 9 brain cells between them want Mac to have more autonomy to do whatever he wants. More than half the voting public want our current politicians to have less ability to destroy the country. The rest don't care.
cayman has been let down by the governor….
The Governor has been here for 2 years, and Shaggy (Wasn't Me) Bush has 28 years in the LA.
Our problem isnt with the UK or problem is these elected memebers thats causing the UK to put us in situations what Mr. Bush needs to do is shut his mouth once and for all .
All of you people complaining about Mac I could bet you everything I have got that if the PPM takes over as Government in, less than 12 months you will be complaining just the same.
Government can't help people totally people will have to help themselves.
And now you realize why the box of squid was beating everybody. We cant trust either team.
Mitzi Callan won! (not Squid)
13:37, you should have had the opportunity to write your comments in capital prints, because it really seems like some of the fat heads Caymanians cannot get this fact in their thick sculls.
So what you are saying is it does not matter who gets elected or from which party, itwill be equally as catastrophic as neither party can field anyone with any capability to manage in any form.
I guess that the Islands should just be put up on the internet and auctioned off to the highest bidder, at least then there is a chance that whoever takes over may have the ability to do something successful.
There is one issue that is the elephant in the room which no one mentions. This is political representation. We are supposedly British but we have no representation in the UK parliament. Is this democracy?
Caymanians have a right to vote for a seat in the UK parliament under the ECHR and the HRA. However this would also result in all British citizens living in Cayman being allowed to vote the LA and stand in elections. Somehow I don't think many of the power hungry here want that kind of democracy.
The "power hungry" here, ie some expats like yourself, would want that.
We have absolutely no interest in voting in the UK Parliament.
Therefore, you should not be surprised when the wishes of a few generate no interest in the UK Parliament when it comes do self determination.
Your referendums are currently happening on line, feel free to express your concerns.
What is online is not a referendum. A referendum is held among electors not among random people online who may represent that they are the people of the Cayman Islands. But I suspect that is the point.
Pay off your debts and go independent then. Most of the offshore industry will leave immediately and we will check back on how you are doing in 10 years time. For a quick forecast see Port of Spain, Nassau and Kingston.
Quite rightly, the UK has made it clear that it cannot allow territories more self-governance. That must be accepted or independence sought. The interests of the UK must always come first when it comes to the management of territories and the self-interests of a tiny handful of residents of these territories should not negatively affect policies that are in the Uk's interests.
If it was not a British territory there would be no meangingful offshore industry here and there would be no basis to maintain the current revenue base.
I have responded the FCO to express my concerns as to the limited right to vote, the terrible effect of crass limits on who can stand for election, the negative effects of widespread corruption and the spiral of spending, civil service spending, debt increasing and the unrealistic sense of entitlement of the governing groups and the voting minority.
Being a territory isn't what it used to be. With the defence cuts there are no ships in this region to protect us any longer. The UK is itself desperate and has no wisdom or resources to share.
The business will go where the services and the people will go, and the professional firms here whose partners have pinned their hopes of future chalets in the Alps on this country, will not desert it so quickly. Nor will the clients who are no more interested in paying tax than they ever have been.
This argument is overstated and it's about time someone said so.
I have shadowed you in the past Pit Bull (don't worry, no stalking involved) and gently tweeked your overly UK imbued testicles with a few posts. To my horror, I largely agree with you on this one and – gasp – gave you a thumbs up. On the right to vote/ stand for election, I would be interested on your views on the "Fiji Question", a term first used here by former Governor Peter Lloyd, when cautioning Caymanians about letting control of their country (don't get off on one of your rants about it being a territory, sweetie) pass to a majority of "incomers" "immigrants" "belongers" "expats"……call them what you will.
Thank you for almost stalking me.
In part the difference here from Fiji is that Fiji is a sovereign entity and different considerations might apply there from a non-independent entity. Other equivalent territories have broader political rights and have functioned very well – see Jersey for example. The political divide drives much of the negative energy that stops Cayman moving forward by creating a "them" and "us" attitude, with many ex-pats feeling that they should take all they can from Cayman as they have no interest in what happens here and no investment in the future. Democracy is best when it is a representation of all the people, not the relatives of the people who happened to be sons of a previous generation that emigrated here.
Still, it is tempting to sign off with something inflammatory for the sake of it, but I won't in thanks for the "thumbs up" you gave me.
"many ex-pats feeling that they should take all they can from Cayman as they have no interest in what happens here and no investment in the future".
You got that part right. Always been so.
Thank you, Pit Bull for your answer. I promise to cease my "almost stalking". I am not at all convinced by your "sovereign entity" argument about the Fiji Question but I don't think anyone is much interested in our pursuing our differences over it here. I don't know enough about Jersey and never like to comment on something when I am not au fait with the issues. By the way, I am British but wince at some of the "inflammatory" aspects of your posts, though I accept they are sometimes in response to boorish bigoted anti UK stuff from other posters. Cayman did not use to be like that. But then Britain did not use to be like it is now either. Oh brave new world!
And look how they run off our most educated and dedicated instructors at UCCI!
I'm transferring out of here.
"Quite rightly, the UK has made it clear that it cannot allow territories more self-governance. That must be accepted or independence sought." WHAT AN ULTIMATUM! Pit Bull, YOU VERY WELL KNOW THAT IS COMPLETE NONSENSE!
[Twilight Zone]
" … we will check back on how you are doing in 10 years time …"
Ummm … exactly who is this "we" to which you refer??
Lol! Please tell me it is not the UK!
Forget about how Cayman will be doing in 10 years … how is the UK doing right now?!
[Twilight Zone]
The "terrible effects" Pitbull speaks of are affecting Cayman, not the UK. We can "forget about how Cayman will be doing in 10 years" if you like, but I would have thought a Caymanian would care a little more than that. I am only an expat, but I know I do.
Oh wait. I get it. This is just another gratuitous swipe at the UK. You just wanted to point out (yet again) the rather obvious fact that the UK is struggling with a load of its own troubles right now. Okay. Gotcha.
Now, just to be clear, do you agree with Pitbull's actual point, or not?
oh boy… loyal expats to the queen versus caymanians… all their fault… time to get out my popcorn – WWF! let's play "whose fault is it"
Someone said we don't need the UK. The only thing they have contributed, is given us the Queens face on our dollar bill and treated us like second class citizens. Well, in reply, I have to say that going Independent on our own with no support, would be suicidal. And it would be wicked for the Uk-British, grabbing all they can, push us into Independence. If we can't see eye-to-eye, the best option for Cayman, would be to simply REPLACE the UK for another like Canada or the United States. In other words, align ourselves with another superpower or with a coalition that will respect Cayman's democratic rights and autonomy. That would be a much more healthier move to Independence. But this talk about breaking away from the UK with leaders who are protectionist and thirsts for power, is dangerous and stupid!
On the other hand, if we want to remain as a BOT under the UK, then we have to work with the British in Parliament who would best represent our interest and direct democracy, and we should not be satisfied with our interest alone! More direct democratic provisions implemented in our Constitution is a very important check against political corruption – perhaps the most powerful check! Cayman, if we want to remain as we are, we have to put our foot down and demand our rights and mutual respect!
Thanks for saying Canada is a super power!
Your posts are really interesting, again I disagree totally but it is interesting. What country in the world do you think would be willing to take over the UK overseas territory role with the Cayman Islands?
Why would any country take that headache on? What would a country expect to get in return for this effort on their part?
The simple answer is no country would do so without a price, a number of countries might take over Cayman for control of the financial industry. Perhaps China or Russia but they would not have the relationship or history with the country nor would they be gentle leaders. Ask Tibet about China leadership.
Face it, it is the UK or it is nothing.
Good luck with that…
I made a few calls regarding your suggestion and there is a little bit of interest from some countries for annexation.
Kampuchea and Dagestan are definitely interested, North Korea are already in talks and Jamaica are going to get back to you, sometime.
For some reason, the Phillipines were not interested.
During the review the committee saw that Caymanians were interested in pursuing…a “greater awareness of precisely what the United Kingdom can provide by way of assistance”
As a Brit I find this offensive. I frankly loathe the Caymancentric-selfish view of the UK/Cayman relationship, whereby Cayman is only interested in what they can get out of the UK relationship. It is a selfish, self centered view.
If Caymanians value the relationship, the better question might be – in what way can the UK benefit from the relationship with the Cayman Islands?
It already benefits by sending some of your unemployeds down here.
What sort of question is that for a parent to ask a child?
The UK never helped with our education needs and that says a lot about our advancement. Who needs them? The American and Uk money-men has used Cayman as a tax dodge money washing machine that has given our Country a bad reputation. We have to turn the page on this. There are some that want indpendence so they can continue to was tax dodger's money. Now we have a government that denies it's citizens basic human rights and the UK turns a blind eye and a deaf ear which proves my point. Better must come but not from this triangle of decitful politicians, greedy businessmen and misinformed voters.
Who should it come from? Who would have the most to gain if things got "Better"? We all know who would lose the most.
Judging by the grammar and syntax I can tell that no-one helped with your education needs!
Give that man an Appleton!
You forgot to sign off as "we're the 99%"
Drop your weapons or I'll shoot myself.
"he American and Uk money-men has used Cayman as a tax dodge money washing machine that has given our Country a bad reputation."
As I recall, this was by Cayman invitation.
Yes but it is quite hypocritical for those same countries now to attack us and call us criminals now when similar companies exist in their own countries. But this has always been the opertional plan for large countries; Fix them then look at ourselves. maybe
Mmmmm..I believe that is what they are trying to do. You probably won't like the consequences.
People cannot have a rational discussion politics, religion, or even sex, until their bare necessities of food, clothing, and shelter have been met. McKeeva, by the political sway he holds, symbolically represents a locked door that leads to access for food, clothing, and shelter.
Mr. Bellingham is asking McKeeva to tell him the wishes of the people of the Cayman Islands, but the vast majority of us really just want to be rid of McKeeva. How do we get this across to Mr. Bellingham so that we can then move on to discussing our relationship with the UK?
We will have an opportunity for elections in May 2013, but more is required of us than just removing festering sores. We have to examine ourselves and determine what was the cause of the sores, and why did we allow them to get so bad before seeking treatment.
Sorry, but did you said, "the vast majority of us really just want to be rid of McKeeva"; or, is it "the vast majority of blogger of cns really just want to be rid of McKeeva"? As far as I know, more people than McKeeva is doing all they can to develop this island and trigger economic growth, but it is people like yourself that is protesting every development that comes your way!
Folks, alas… could we have a decent conversation here without theparty politics and who is to blame? Could UDP and PPM put down their swords and see that a more serious issue is at hand?
No. Maybe its time to see the truth that they cannot and move on.
Not really, no. The way we feel about the UK and our relationship with it is going to vary depending on the government. We supported more power for the PPM because we could see that they cared and tried but actually were limited. Now we have a rampant government that needs to be controlled. When the next government which will hopefully have a bit of imagination and more in the way of skill takes over, they will again be throwing tantrums about their lack of authority. Then McKeeva will say 'look how little they can get done, they are stuck by the UK rules which were their fault because of the expensive schools, and this is the constitution they wanted and now they say they can't get anything done'. And everyone with their short memories and empty pockets will forget about everything he's done this term which is worse than any other he's ever been in power, and he will be voted in again. XXXXX
NEVER!! McKeeva Bush all the way. I will follow McKeeva wherever he go. Mckeeva till he die or I die, whichever happen first!
Poor thing! I think the reflection from that shiny brown ring around your nose has blinded you.
Perhaps you should stop putting your nose in places that leaves a ""RING AROUND THE NOSEY"
Aw, bless, John John has learned how to work a computer.
Keyboard solo. Hit it John John. "What I see happenin'"
16:11 NEVER!! McKeeva Bush all the way. "Step up, because I am right behind you" .
Do you honestly think that the UK would want Cayman to become independent? It's just mind games that they are playing.
I can assure you that they want this jewel of the Caribbean and have probably already sub-divided the spoils between them behind closed doors.
People, the world population is expanding rapidly and many nations have already soiled their own nests. The mega-rich are a dangerous breed. Their heart is not one of compassion towards the common folk.
If it were, the world's problems could have been solved already as they pool their resources, working selflessly for the good of their fellow man knowing that they will lie between satin sheets at night. Oh, foolish dreamer that I am?
Since the beginning of time (as we know it), this has been the ongoing struggle. Those who can never be satisfied as they greedily acquire more and more trying to dominate those who are content with a plot to cultivate, a bed to lie in, a spouse to love, a bowl of soup and children to nurture.
I wonder what would happen if we told the rich to go screw themselves? Think about it. As long as decent folk can have their values bought by the rich man's paper money, we'll get nowhere.
"The love of money…' can someone finish this off for me?
By the way, I am Spartacus.
"I can assure you that they want this jewel of the Caribbean" – you are kidding right? This would be the Uk that has been shedding it's colonial past in the last 50 years? Pushing nation after nation to essentially grow up and move out of Mamas house and stand on their own?
The UK does not want, or need, the Cayman Islands. Don't delude yourself otherwise. The UK gets nothing from the arrangement, yet is expected by the people of these islands to step in every time and sort out our own mess when our politicials fail, our police fail, and any other time we go crying to mama.
"The UK does not want, or need, the Cayman Islands." So when you say UK, are you meaning ALL citizens of the UK???? Because as far as I know, it would be the Labor Party that don't want us, not the Conservatives or Tory's – those who believe in investing in this financial centre. Opps… even certain members of the Labor Party has interest in these islands. Don't be ignorant. They're sucking the life out of TCI and after they are done, it is bye bye TCI. They could have given TCI Independence long time ago. But they are not stupid. They know what they want, and what they can get from Cayman, they will get if they can.
The UK does not need to hold Cayman as an overseas territory for independent Britons (or even groups of them) to invest here. Apples and oranges, my friend. The same is true of TCI.
Let us remember what happened to Louis XVI.
Louis… wasn't he some gay lord?
If the UK thought they could dump the Cayman Islands right now without the place either being given piecemeal to foreign investors or being turned into some thirdworld s**thole they would do it.
What holds the UK back is the prospect of an independent Cayman going belly up in a few years time and the British taxpayer being asked to pick up the pieces.
If you really want independence it's time to bring in a completely new breed of politicians and public servants, people who care about what they can give to the Islands rather than how much they can screw out of them.
I couldn't said it better, it's time for Old School Cayman to be sweep under the carpet…
Thank God for the great USA even with the current financial difficulties and economic down turn it is still the best place in the world to live. Long Live the USA, I know where I want to go when this volcano blow.
One of my biggest concerns of independence is that if we became independent, who would watch, audit, manage, control and hold the government accountable?
Also I do think that it is inappropriate for government to run the police force, as they need to be empowered to apprehend persons committing crimes, even if they are in a Government position….if Government controled them then they may grant themselves immunity. Yes that is the old Soapbox cynicism creeping in.
"who would watch, audit, manage, control and hold the government accountable?"
Why McKeeva, of course.
Just who do you think does this NOW?? "watch, audit, manage, control and hold the government accountable"
You hear about things that are going on but never hear what the outcome is. Never know if there is still an investigation going on. Everything is kept so hush hush that it's like they hope we forget and it will go away.
So far, that is the status quo from what I can see.
The UK hasn't done anything bad to Cayman. All your problems are home-grown, starting with the educational system.
huh? so uk is good now… this is getting better… they make this up as they go
No, it hasn't done anything bad, unless you count neglect. Countries don't just go downhill after the UK leaves you know. The UK maintains its constant presence and keeps its colonies and their people in a state of infancy, failing to take responsibility for themselves. They go downhill due to UK neglect, people get agitated, some Bustamante says 'independence will make it all better' and the spiral accelerates.
I don't think there's any real argument that the UK cut deep scars around the world and broke the spirit of hundreds of millions of people. Those people now muddle along, unable to pull themselves out of the festering swamp they were left in. Cayman and other territories remain only because they are too understanding, too forgiving, and not full of 'angry black men'.
Perhaps the white man's burden has become too heavy
Burden or "booty"?
The Cayman Islands poor relationship to the UK is the direct result of one man's and his handful of supporters influence. The poor relationship is mainly due to the poor Governance of the islands and the leadership's lack of ability to manage Cayman present and future properly. Before the people of The Cayman Islands allow the idea of independence to change their lives forever it might be a prudent move to change the leadership of Cayman and give a new body a chance to get Cayman under control and mend the relationship with the UK. To keep on the path to independence under the present leadership is economic suicide for the islands. More of what you have now will not save and repair Cayman. Think about it before you jump.
Amazing isn't it! Lachlan, who has never been on island for over 10 years, spinning the partisan rhetoric again! 🙂
i agree with you when you said he is spinning the party talk, but that statement about never being on island for over ten years, is false. don't know where you got that from
To the Cayman Island Poor writer. Why is it that you fail to acknowledge that the situation today is not one of the last 4 or even years, but way back whenya cronies was here makiing money and blinging and has nare a thought about transparency good governance or any of the newly found principles. The days of yore vbackyard and the antics of like souls and other s performed will be remembered in iinfamy.
I disagree completely and am frankly tired at hearing every topic manipulated and overly simplified to hear the same old broken record of distain against the present leader and government.
It stands to reason there will be periods of friction between Cayman and the UK, the UK are bound by EU rulings and laws that ware being imposed upon its overseas territories that area of tension is external and has nothing to do with local politics.
To many of you, find another outlet for your anger or frustration with life as I am getting tired of seeing it here.
This is such a narrow point of view it is worthless. We have seen poor representation politically since the end of the 1970s. Our memories would be short if you think that this is a new phenomenon and about one person. We ALL have treated our government like a piggy bank and allowed our politicians to borrow too much to handout to us. Simple.
The UK is very clear with their basic position. They will go along with the Cayman Islands as long as it’s the best interest with the UK. This is written in plain English in the back of the current "constitution" (FCO/Cayman Islands contract)
Both the UDP and PPM have together spent hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in the last 10 years and both have shown very poor ability to control our "downward debt spiral". The AG could not account for CI$80,000,000 from one PPM ministry alone. This is clearly NOT about one man. It would be simple to solve if that was the case. It is almost systemic now.
The UK simply wants us to make the decision to move away from them so they do not have any ongoing liability. They will say "Ok, you want to go independent, we wish you all the best". If they push us they will have to ensure state security, international facilities such as embassies and assistance with global treaties. The British always ensure that their colonies make the decision to leave. Look back into their history.
It is us, the electors, who put the current 15 persons in there. In fact, we keep electing the same folks and somehow expect a different result. That is the definition of madness. Next time at the polls select new folks who are educated, who can run this country properly and who have not been a part of our downward spiral to date. Those that will bring a new era to the country.
Cayman has let itself down.
London is one of our strongest competitors in regards to the financial industry therefore, it appears quite asinine to expect full and sincere support in that regard.
However, in the past few years the global financial industry has faced major interruption and scrutiny, therefore the nature of this relationship may very well change for the mutual benefit of both sides. (Although, my concern is that this may actually take place (if it has not already) without us being fully aware of the fact.)
[One of the major factors in the mystery that surrounds this issue is the miscalculation of the extent and the significant presence of massive international political and financial corruption that is carried out by the British themselves. Honestly, how else could a country with so little natural resources and tangible economic clout rise to its perceived position in the world?]
I strongly suspect that London utilizes its relationship with jurisdictions such as ours to assist in their circumvention of various regulations, laws, loopholes etc. Clearly this would never be officially disclosed so there are many blindfolded characters in this story.
Apart from economic concerns I honestly cannot imagine why the UK would want to remain "friendly" with the Cayman Islands.
This is not cynicism but simply my personal conclusion based on decades and generations of history.
That being said I am wide open for opposing perspectives on this issue. Hopefully I will manage to avoid the shower of comment-less "thumbs-downs" as is the norm whenever I speak to these matters.
I've given you a thumbs down but it is not a commentless thumbs down.
This is the comment.
Lol!
That one was pretty good.
1 smiley face for you :o)
This is such a common myth. The City of London does not compete with Cayman for the services we provide. The UK Government competes with us for the tax revenues of the City and the FTSE 250 companies. The City loves Cayman, and couldn't do without it.
Actually, it appears as if we are not really at odds here.
Granted, I did bunch the two entities (City & Government) under the "British" umbrella and anticipated a challenge immediately after posting.
In any event, there seems to be a merry-go-round type of situation where all 3 entities (bunching CIG + Cayman financial industry as "one" this time), although in competition with one another, also rely on the existence of each player in the game.
Very interesting situation indeed.
I think it is best to not rock this boat in anyway whatsoever right now – especially considering what it taking place in the world today.
By George – I think we've cracked it! Right here on CNS of all places … Mac, get me Henry on the blower will' ya?!
I prefer to give you thumbs down because it's the most energy efficient response.
Shame you didn't manage to include anything of substance in your reply though.
You can't compare onshore to offshore investments… it would be like comparing a dog to an elephant.
I am glad you got the order right!
Thank you – at least you forwarded something of relevance.
However, in reality London does also operate as an offshore banking center. This fact further supports the suspicions outlined in my initial post.
At the new tech zone we will be offering fiscal benefits to assist crossing a dog with an elephant. This in turn will fund a new zoo.
I guess I fall in both categories: more local autonomy and stronger checks and balances. Moreover, the foolish division that party politics is causing, and the influence that "big names" such as Dart and developers, have on legislation. I say this and have said before – WE TRULY DO NOT NEED A PARTY CHANGE! WHAT WE NEED IS A SYSTEMATIC and CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT! Regards
The situation is clear. Either shape up or ship out to independence. You can't have your cake and eat it too. The UK has made it clear there is no further constitutional changes available short of independence and if we don't want that we have to buckle down and mend our out of control spending and entitlement mentality.
You hold a narrow view. Independence and Dependence, are not the only paths of self-determination. You make it an "either" situation. There are other options for these beloved islands, my friend. Your view is not only limited, but attempts to divert attention from the major relationship issues that can be mended between us and the UK.
lol… "either shape up or ship out…" nice colonial slogan
So what, 10:45? Is that all you can say? Caymanians use a lot of English expressions because – duh!!–they speak English, like millions of others around the world.
“we are not going to sit still or be taken advantage of,” he added. Ironic that Caymans only source of incoming money is by takeing "advantage" of other countrys tax laws.
Please tell me again what the UK gets in return for keeping Cayman from turning into another Cuba and adopting its people? Does Cayman pay for this priviledge? Or are they taking advantage of the UK? Honest question. Whats the answer?
Don't know who you are, but it is evident you have something against Cayman. There has to be a win-win situation here. Not a win-lose, where the UK can just bully us and undermine Cayman's welfare and interest.
Win -win would only happen if Cayman islands were able to self govern in a respectable competent manner. Only then could you enjoy the benifits of the UKs oversite without them having to tell you how to not destroy yourselves and everyone elses future in the Cayman islands. Do you agree Libertarian? I love Cayman enough to hope for a better future than what it has coming. I do have something against the powers that are insuring that never happens but not Cayman itself.
I admire your candid comments and would welcome your honest answer to my honest question.
Yes, I do agree. But it all has to do with "respect." Like we respect them when we sing, "God Save the Queen," our local politicians should respect us, the People of the Cayman Islands. People need to understand that the greatest "check and balance" we can ever have to ensure good self-governance, is not mere laws and regulations to patch things up. But more "direct democratic provisions" implemented in our Constitution. What is a direct democracy? It is "a form of government in which people collectively make decisions for themselves, rather than having their political affairs decided by representatives." I am not calling (all at once) for a full direct democracy. I am simply proposing more "direct democratic provisions" in our Constitution like a referendum where the public have the power to vote down a law. I am saying simply, too much power is placed into the hands of our MLA's or elected representatives. How is this the greatest "check and balance" measure, the Cayman Islands, can ever have? By the simple fact that it will make our politicians more answerable and accountable to the electorate, and will give the electorate power to make laws over them and even remove them from office if they have failed to retain our confidence. Right now, developers and big names, can influence our politicians, and if they should truck a law to pursue such development, the people of that particular community, would have no say to stop it from happening. It could be ten thousand people, opposing it, and if all 15 MLA's should support it, nothing would be able to stop it from happening. That, to me, is pathetic! No type of law, will ever be an auuthentic chack and balance – unless it is a kin to "direct democracy." It is simply placing more power into the hands of the people. I welcome the UK to always be our faithful watchdog. But I blame them first, because they are the administrative power of the OT's and they have failed terribly on ensuring the people's direct democracy. If Turks and Cacois had proper checks and balances in their Constitution, do you seriously think that a British takeover would have been necessary. Of course not! The UK's FCO should have done better! But I think many of them refer to us as "natives," and so that is one factor why they care little for how we self-govern ourselves.
As usual (but not always) I agree with you. If you and those like you could just get these checks implemented it would help keep the human factor from takeing over. The US of A started out big in this direction but couldn't keep up with the human factor of figuring out ways around the checks and balnces. Now we (the US) are paying for that and it dosen't even look like a check to keep that from happening again can be agreed upon. Much like Cayman the people of the US are being let down by those who are being payed to watch out for us. Good luck to both of us.
They can also just leave you alone as you seem to be doing a good job undermining Cayman's welfare and interest all on your own…After all what would they have to lose what does Cayman really do for the UK. And if you were under any other sovereign nation you’d be slapped with a hefty tax system almost immediately.
Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.
You know it is amazing that you would sing that song. I mean isn't the UK in charge of the Cayman Islands? Could they not have arranged for laws to be passed that would have weakened that section of our economy?
Do you know why that is not happening. Because both the US and the UK have companies in the same business. Every time they have said to the Cayman Islands we would be happy if you just changed this or that we have. And yet in a few months later they are still not satisfied. The Cayman Islnads is one of the most compliant countries. The problem with those countries and yourself is that you dont have your hands on the money and another country is being successfull
Since when did tourism become a way of taking advantage of other countries tax laws? Banking is definetly not Cayman's only source of income.
Wanting something for nothing or a feeling of entitlement or birthright seems to be embedded deeply in the Cayman culture starting with its leaders all the way down to the youth. This will ultimately become the undoing of the Cayman Culture.
Yep, the nationwide rioting, burning, looting and grabbing carried out by Brits just a few weeks had absolutely nothing to do with "entitlement" – right?
Smh – ridiculous.