Religious rights don’t trump job contracts, says Coles
(CNS): The chair of the Human Rights Commission appears to take the position that employment contracts trump anyone’s religious rights in the workplace. According to an interview with Cayman27, the man who is charged with championing the rights of Caymanians as the country moves towards implementing its bill of rights next year has said that whatever a person’s religion, the conditions under which they signed their employment contract is what they should follow, regardless of religious beliefs. Richard Coles told the television news station that if employers were to take the religious practices of their employers into account they may be discriminating against the rest of their work force.
Coles, who is also the chair of Cayman Finance and a former attorney general, believes that people who sign a contract which requires them to work any day of the week cannot expect to be exempted from working on the Sabbath – despite any religious conversion.
The HRC chair spoke to Cayman27 in the wake of a news report on the station regarding an officer who was dismissed from the RCIPS after she had requested not to be rostered Friday nights or Saturday mornings as a result of her conversion to the Seventh Day Adventist church. Although she attempted to find an accommodation with her employer, she was refused any leave to be exempt from those shifts.
The officer made a decision not to work when she was assigned to work Friday nights and Saturday mornings and as a result she was eventually dismissed from the service.
Go to Cayman27 for interview with Coles and police officer’s story here
Category: Local News
I hope I don't offend Ms. Solomon but did she ever consider that perhaps it is God's plan for her to be relieved of her job from RCIP so that she can serve him in another capacity which being an employee of the RCIP would not accomodate? She said she got a directive from God that she should not go to work on her Sabbath well maybe it is because God knew eventually she would be fired and has a plan in store for her.
I am just thinking that if she is a Christian believes that nothing happens unless God allows it to then maybe, just maybe her not being no longer employed with the RCIP is part of God's plan for her life. So instead of appealing it, why not trust God that everything will work out for her in the end? All she has to do now is pray and wait for his next directive.
There is an "athiest" who wrote this below:
"You, like Mr Cole, should read ECHR before commenting.
It clearly states, 'this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom.' When a public authority refuses to re-negotiate a contract to take into account of this change they are in the wrong.
And this is not a conditional right – it's an absolute right.
The problem we have in the Cayman Islands is that no one really understands the implications of ECHR and that isn't just as it written but as it has been implemented over the years by the courts.".
It is really quite funny that the "athiest" is chastising Mr. Coles for supposedly not having read the ECHR and claiming that no one in Cayman understands the ECHR and how it is implemented (except the writer, presumably) but makes the most elementary error when he describes freedom of religion as an "absolute right". It isn't. Anyone who has even basic schooling in human rights law knows that. It is a qualified right and the qualifications are listed in Article 9(2) if the "athiest" has actually read it. Like all qualified rights it must be balanced against other rights.
In response to a direct question he was not able to show one case where it has been "implemented by the courts" in the way that he suggests.
FYI… this one of the few democratic countries where Christianity is enshrined in the national Constitution. Things should be interesting when the Bill of Rights is introduced next November.
As far as the practice of the religion, and keeping all 10 Commandments… that is an individual choice. Each is led by his own conscience.
However, there is no sin against doing good on the Sabbath — that argument is EXACTLY what Jesus Christ was convicted to be crucified for (healing on the Sabbath) — and by religious people!
If a police officer or any other worker works to help others – and does it to the Glory of God – on a Sabbath, who am I to question them?
So Mr Coles what about the human rights implications of warrantless searches and the removal of the presumption of guilt – any comments on that?
This seems to be more about protecting the RCIPS, or more accurately the Commissioner, than human rights.
All the silliness in this thread just re-confirms my atheism.
So what she and the SDA followers are saying is that if everyone was to be converted to the SDA we would essentially have to shut down the island on Saturday.
Dont forget to get the MOU from the criminals,
no tourist are allowed to enter the island on Saturdays,
no one is allowed to drive or if they drive they better not get in a accident,
ask the Lord not the have any homes burn down on Saturday
Everything must shut down. Are they for real.
Now you can go and defend your religion all you want but this individual is a police officer and crime does not take a vacation on Saturday.
PS The Sunday worshippers do not expect this.
Mine too.
LOL!!!! You can see the petty differences and hatred between the religions coming out left, right and centre in this discussion. In fact I get the impression that the main concern amongst many is not what the lady wanted to do or what happened to her but the fact that she is SDA.
Your post is very hypocritical. Christians and Christianity are constantly mocked and malignednot only on this thread but all over CNS by atheists but it is only when you see a passionate exchange of deeply held views between Christian denominations that you are able to see hatred. I don't remember any posts by anyone claiming to be atheist saying that he was turned off by all the hatred when it is being expressed by atheists.
Good luck with that argument on Judgment Day!
Let God be God, and everybody else be what they are. God is not mocked, neither can He be fooled. If God said the day is Holy, then it is Holy. It is not unto us mortals to start adding to God's word, or even subtracting from it.. He who adds or removes from the Word will have their due reward.
Fear God and respect authorities, the lady fears God and has chosen to obey Him. Everybody else seems to want their opinion heard rather than the truth. The day or name thereof has nothing to do with everything. It all has to do with worship, wherether you worship God, who created the heavens and the earth, or you choose to obey man, who was created like you were.. The sabbath has been set aside for worship to the Creator,it is a sign of redemption and it will forever remain so, even in the new Jerusalem. Do not be disheratened when people post comments out of ignorance, unbelief and lack of knowledge, God will reveal Himself in due time to them, if they are willing to listen.
Blah, blah, blah.
Oh please, if you are a true christian, you could and should worship the creator every day. There is no need for a specific day, a special place or a special book to do so. All churches are so self-focused. In stead of focussing on the god that you claim to serve, you focus on the rules and regulations which were in essence created by man. I have always believed that christianity is far more complicated than God ever intended. Keep it simple and your intentions honourable then there will be no need for this nitpicking.
A true Christian will keep the commandments of God not because it will save Him, because it can never save anyone, but because WE ARE saved and because we love Him John 14:15. And yes, we must live for Him and worship Him every day because of our love for Him and the great salvation He freely offers every man. Yet we can not render anything but the worship that He requires. REMEMBER Cain's offering was not accepted! (see Gen 4:7) The very Command that Ms. Solomon seeks to obey starts with "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" Ex 20:8-11. God set aside this day and not man. God instituted this day even before there was a Jew on this earth, right at the very beginning of Creation (see Gen 2:1-3)
Further it is not Ms. Solomon's Sabbath it is the Lord's "But the seventh day IS the Sabbath of the Lord." Ex 20:10, Christ kept the Sabbath when He was upon the earth Luke 4:16 and proclaimed Himself Lord of the Sabbath Mark 2:28 and finally, the saints through endless ages will keep it again in the earth made new." Isaiah 66: 22-23
May God bless you and keep you for trusting in His Word Ms. Solomon… You will be in my thoughts and prayers continually. Remember God has promised that if we seek first His kingdom and righteouness then all that is needful for us He will provide. (Matt 6:33) Further in the NT He promised to recompense anything that we had to give up in order to follow Him. Love and blessings!
According to your last two sentences, Ms. Solomon most definitely has made the right choice and has absolutely nothing to worry about and a whole lot to be thankful for.
"God instituted this day even before there was a Jew on this earth, right at the very beginning of Creation (see Gen 2:1-3)".
We see no record in the Bible of anyone keeping a Sabbath until the Jews under Moses. Not Adam, not Enoch, not Abraham, not Noah. God said it was a sign of the covenant between him and the Jews.
Funny that you should say that Christ kept the Sabbath since your religious forefathers the Pharisees claimed that he broke the Sabbath. By saying that he was Lord of the Sabbath Jesus was obviously saying that the Sabbath was subject to him and not he to the Sabbath. You have got it all muddled.
Amen. Thank you. Praise the Lord.
If you can PROVE to me that GOD said Saturday is holy I might even read past the third sentence of your post.
One group says Sunday, the other says Saturday. Both can’t be right, and the bible commands you to KILL THEM for picking the wrong sabbath. Yes, you MUST KILL THEM ALL:
“Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.” – Hosea 13
“For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.” – Exodus 31 (verse 15)
You must believe this, because ay Psalm 19:7 the Bible says: “The law of the Lord is perfect.”
Now go on, all you believers, start killing the other group. YOUR GOD HAS SO COMMANDED YOU.
(PS – I’m mocking all religion here. Please don’t really kill anyone.)
Christians are not commanded to kill anyone. However, if you are under the law…
A short while after accepting employment, I had a vision in which God told me it was wrong to work instead of spending all day praising him. So I told my boss that I’d like to take all week off to praise God’s name. He understood, and now I’m praising and shouting in tongues all day long, and all on full pay! I’ve told my fellow-workers about this, and the miracle is that they’ve all seen the same vision too now! Don’t take any nonsense from your employer or that Coles man, Cayman! Praise the Lord all day and get paid for it! Hallelujah!
As a SDA, the best way I can explain why the Sabbath is important to us is that we believe God made the day holy. Exodus 20:8-11 it says "the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it". The way I understand it would be to provide the analogy of a wedding anniversary. If a husband said to his wife, that he wanted to pick any day out of the year to celebrate it, she probably wouldn't like that very much. Their wedding was a specific special day that they became one. Thus, the Sabbath is a special day to remind us of God creating us and His love for us.
So how do we know Saturday is the Sabbath? If you're interested in the answer, check out http://www.sabbathtruth.com
Some of us are reminded of God creating us and his love for us every day.
God made that covenant with the Jews. "I gave them my Sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them [the Israelites], that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them. But the House of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness" – Ezekiel 20:12-13. Christians have a new and better covenant. Tell me brother, do you leave your house at all on the Sabbath? Do you start your car and travel to church? If you do you have broken the Sabbath commandment (Exodus 16:29)
Christians have a new and better covenant.
How is leaving your house or driving a car on the Sabbath breaking it? Did the poster claim that? You have no understanding of the Sabbath.
I am sorry but you don't. Read the scripture provided. Understand the issue before commenting.
Well, I say let them all convert to SDA. More lobster, conch and whelks left for me.
Don't forgetthat good old turtle meat. And please don't let Mr. Coles catch you in those replenishment zones.
lol! We won't need replenishment zones as I will be the only person eating lobster, whelks, and conchs. Remember everyone else will be SDA. I don't eat turtle so we will have loads of turtles and the tourists will be so happy.
LMAO, the only person I know greedier than you works for the Gowerment. And he most definitely eats turtle meat, lots and lots of it. And he owns his own chuch, so you definitely na going to fool him with ya Save Da Animals campaign.
This isn't really a religious issue. If you don't want to work on your sabbath, don't take a job that requires it!
How about some regular old common sense?
Or is that a cultural thing here? Really! Honest question because it seems like many people here would rather not have to rely on common sense.
It’s not the Caymanian way.
…and it’s not that common around here.
You want the job? You sign on the dotted line. Once youve signed you work agreed days. You find God 3 weeks in. You need to find another job. Somebody is looking to take your position whether they are religious or a heathen. Times have changed since the book was written and i seriously dont think any good god will hold it against you for working an honest job for an honest salary. No matter what day of the week. There are a lot of other things most people should be worried about that might stop them getting into heaven.
I wrote previously that when you sign the dotted line you are bound to that contract. My opinion pertains to a situation that developed where i am employed. Myself and one other employee had the skills to man the company vehicles and perform the emergency work tasks that may occur on the weekends. My fellow employee was married into the seventh day adventist church. We struck an arrangement that i would work the saturdays and he would cover the Sundays. After a short time it became evident that everything happened requiring a call out on a saturday. As on Sunday the majority of people are at home enjoying their day off but most people tend to put in their overtime on a saturday. Ithank my fellow employee for resigning as he realised it was unfair for me to work every saturday while he never got called out on a sunday. The company employed another person who was able to work whenever called upon and we now share these duties equally. Our ex employee has now started work with a company who accomodates his religious beliefs. He has signed a new dotted line and will stand by that agreement.
ECHR Article 9 – Freedom of thought, conscience and religion
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, and to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.
2. Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
Basically, if I decide to change my day of worship from the Sabbath to Shabbat or Jumu'ah and you decide not to respect that you better watch out.
There's a simple rule of thumb that no contract can be binding if it contains any element of illegality and restricting an employee's religious activities is clearly illegal under ECHR.
Mr Coles, this issue has already been tried and tested in both Europe and the USA so your comments are, at best, ill-advised and reflect an element that might be deemed to be religious bigotry. Anemployer cannot force any employee to work on what they regard as their holy day(s).
This is the underlying problem with human rights in the Cayman Islands. The enforcement has been entrusted to people who don't want to understand the laws,
Clearly you are ill-advised because first of all she was not an SDA when she signed that contract so the contract was not restricting her religious activities when it was signed. She had a choice at the time of signing the contract to voice concern about her inability to adhere to the conditions of the contract BUT she didn’t because at the time it was not anything in the contract that was adverse to her. The simple solution is that since she became a SDA AFTER the contract was signed, she either tries to negotiate a new contract, which she did and was unsuccessful or find another job. When she was unsuccessful in negotiating a new contract to allow her to be exempt from Friday nights/Saturday mornings roster, she CHOSE to not turn up for work which is in breach of the contract she initially signed so the RCIP was absolutely correct in dismissing her.
People, including this ex-employee, are making this about her religion when in fact she was dismissed because she chose to breach her contract and not show up for work. The RCIP did not infringe on this person’s “religious rights” as she and everyone else is trying to make it appear. A contract is a contract, you can quote from the ECHR all you want but if an employer and an employee agree to something, what is the ECHR going to do about that? She was not forced to sign the contract, she did so of her own free will.
This person agreed to those working conditions 12 years ago, her situation has now changed, no one is disputing that but now you are making it seem as though it is the RCIP who has to then change their contract to suit the changes in her life so as not to infringe on her religious activities, "according to the ECHR". That is nonsensical. She made the change therefore she should also realize the consequences of making that change.
Otherwise what you are suggesting is that every employer now has to sign new contracts with everybody so that it fits with the ECHR!
You, like Mr Cole, should read ECHR before commenting.
It clearly states, 'this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom.' When a public authority refuses to re-negotiate a contract to take into account of this change they are in the wrong.
And this is not a conditional right – it's an absolute right.
The problem we have in the Cayman Islands is that no one really understands the implications of ECHR and that isn't just as it written but as it has been implemented over the years by the courts.
Bluntly, this is sticking your head in the sand and hoping it will all go away. If you don't like this maybe it's time to go for independance then we can make up the rules as we go along but right now this kind of dispute is subject to outside laws, not local prejudices.
They could not renegotiate the kind of contract she wanted because it was then infringing on other officers' rights so what made her so special that they were supposed to absolutely renegotiate with her?
So the RCIP should renegotiate every contract with every religious person that has found or changed religion because it is the individual's absolute right, NO! That is where you are wrong! This is where all the ECHR crap is going to get messy because it is always going to be infringing on someone's rights so what then? Who takes precedence?
If take the ECHR literally as you have quoted then next week RCIP will be renegotiating with a converted Muslim, the week after it will be with a converted Jew! Where will it end?
Public Authority or not, if the individual situation no longer fits the requirements of the organization, the organization should not be forced to accomodate that person. Commissioner Baines clearly stated that he could not accomodate her because it was basically unfair to the other officers and I agree with him because she would then be getting special treatment, that is not her absolute right!
Sorry bobo!
I appreciate your very candid and balanced view of this subject. I feel disturbed that more of my fellow Christian Caymanians seemed to express an intolerance for this woman's right to change her religion. A right that even the founding father's of a great nation fought to maintain. I believe the RCIPS could have found a job to accommodate her based on her religious beliefs as she was prepared to even work additional hours to make up for the time off each week.
Which founding fathers of which great nation? Be very careful how you answer this, because you are going to get it wrong.
Although she (and everyone else for that matter) has the (qualified) right to freedom of religion, this is not absolute and can be waived by the individual. When one signs a contract that states explicitly that one may be required to work on any day of the week, this can only be seen as a waiver of the right to demand a specific day of the week off.
This means that when the contract was signed, she would have agreed voluntarily to work on any day of the week. For her to refuse to come to work, when she has expressly agreed to do so at the request of her employer, constitutes a breach of contract. The employer is entitled to dismiss her for this breach, and she has no grounds to complain.
Conclusion: If a person signs a contract, expressly waiving certain rights, then that person cannot complain in the future when those rights, waived by the individual, are 'infringed' under the terms of the contract. Freedom of religion does not trump the legally binding agreement she entered. This would fall under Article 9(2) you mentioned above, referencing limitations prescribed by law.
Before anyone corrects me – I should have pointed out that my comments reflect the fact that the case referred to involves the RCIPS who are a public authority and thus bound by the provisions of ECHR. Whilst private sector employers should be seen to be complying with ECHR they are not legally bound to do so and in that area Mr Coles is legally, if not morally, correct.
It would appear that you are wrong, sir. Mr. Coles's point is well established by the European court, see Stedman v United Kingdom (1997) 23 EHRR CD 168. I think you should apologise to Mr. Coles for suggesting that he is a religious bigot and and as Chairman of the HRC does not understand the laws.
In fact Stedman refers to an earlier case which specifically involves an SDA not wanting to work on their Sabbath. Here is an excerpt from the judgement:
"The Commission recalls that in Application No. 24949/94,
Dec. 3.12.96, unpublished, an employee of the Finnish State Railways
was dismissed for failing to respect his working hours on the basis
that to work after sunset on a Friday was forbidden by the Seventh-Day
Adventist Church, of which he was a member. The Commission held in
this case that the applicant was not dismissed because of his religious
convictions but for having refused to respect his working hours. In
these circumstances the Commission considered that although the refusal
was motivated by religious convictions, such a situation did not give
rise to protection under Article 9 para. 1 (Art. 9-1). Further the
Commission held in that case, that the applicant had failed to show
that he was pressured to change his religious views or prevented from
manifesting his religion or belief (inter alia he was free to resign).
Likewise in the present case the applicant was dismissed for failing
to agree to work certain hours rather than her religious belief as such
and was free to resign and did in effect resign from her employment.
"The Commission thus considers that, had the applicant been
employed by the State and dismissed in similar circumstances, such
dismissal would not have amounted to an interference with her rights
under Article 9 para. 1"
http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/view.asp?action=html&documentId=667782&portal=hbkm&source=externalbydocnumber&table=F69A27FD8FB86142BF01C1166DEA398649
Very well put but sadly not relevant because times, and the interpretation of ECHR, have moved on.
In 2007 the Metropolitan Police were forced to excuse an orthodox Jewish officer from working on Shabbat and other high holidays. Similar accommodations have been made for Muslim officers in the Met and other UK forces. These decisions set far more relevant precedents for Crown employees than an obscure ruling relating to a Finnish train driver.
The Crown cannot apply one rule to Jews amd Muslims and another to SDA. Or, based on some of the comments made here about SDA, maybe people in the Cayman Islands wrongly think they can. Some of the comments posted here express religious bigotry on a scale that is as illegal under current UK laws as this sacking.
Can you please provide a link or at least cite the decision of the European court which reversed these rulings that you have in mind. Unlike my "obscure" cases which are easily found I could not find your cases based on the descriptions you provided.
Try a bit harder.
It took me under 5 minutes to establish that UK police forces had agreed to numerous concessions based on religious beliefs and that these had been given after the officers were in post. It's there if you want to find it.
Now you are playing games. Having searched diligently I suspect that there is no such case and I am not about to go on a wild goose chase. Incidentally, the UK police forces agreeing to concessions (unlike two decisions of the European Commission) does not establish an authoritative interpretation of Article 9 of the ECHR and is in no way binding on the Cayman Human Rights Commission. If that is all you are hanging your hat on then your original comments that Mr. Coles' views represented religious bigotry and showed that he did not understand the laws were really quite out of order. It may be that the European court would take a different view on this issue at this time but until then we must rely on such decisions as have been handed down from the Commission or the Court. The burden is on you to produce authority to support your claims.
For someone who is supposedly an atheist you seem quite protective of the SDA. The language used here by SDA believers was stronger than any used about them. "The Whore of Babylon and her daughters"?
"Some of the comments posted here express religious bigotry on a scale that is as illegal under current UK laws as this sacking".
Actually I agree with that. Neither one is illegal. As Christians are often on the receiving end from atheists in particular they know that freedom of speech permits us and our religion to be mocked and ridiculed. If that were illegal in the UK as you say Richard Dawkins would be in prison for writing "The God Delusion".
Please stop pontificating on this subject since you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
Considering it was the RCIPS, I suppose you neglected the clause limiting this right "in the interests of public safety, [and] for the protection of public order." I believe that directly corresponds to the responsibilities of working for the POLICE.
Also consider that if an employer were to make special concessions for SDAs to not work Friday after sundown through Saturday, it may also be considered an infringement of the rights of their coworkers to be forced to work Saturdays to cover for them. Therefore, in order to not discriminate against ANY employees, the employer should hold all employees to the same scheduling accountability without special concessions in the interests of equality.
If you don't want to work for such an employer, don't sign a contract stating you will do so. If they won't hire you because you cannot meet your working obligations, that's a responsible business decision, not discrimination. You are free, however, to seek employment under your own terms. That does not mean you will obtain it. Nobody forces you to take a job, or to quit; that decision is your own. However, if you choose to sign a contract of employment, you must uphold the contract to which you have bound yourself. It's quite simple, and is a major foundation of modern civilized society.
A contract, is a contract once you read and sign it, you have accepted the terms within. If you had any issues you should have mentioned them before signing.
Please people get over yourselves and religion try just being sensible about it.
I applaud Mr. Coles stand on this.
My contract specifically says Monday to Friday 8:30am to 5:00pm but there is also a little clause which states that on occasion I may be required to work out of ordinary working hours which means although I am a Sunday worshipper, if my employer need me to work on Sunday and take Wednesday off instead then Wednesday shall become my “sabbath” and day of rest. I know that the God I serve is a loving and merciful God who is not going to condemn me because I have to work and could not go to church on Sunday!
The Seventh-Day Adventist are one of the more rigid religions I have found here, talking to some members would make a more gullible person automatically feel discouraged and believe they are going straight to hell because they are “worshipping on the wrong day.” It seems like they pick and choose parts of the Bible to adhere to. If they are so rigid about upholding the Sabbath day because as they stress “the Bible plainly says so” well the Bible plainly says an adulterer should be stoned so should we start lining up people in town and stoning? What about all the other commandments? Jesus himself said oneof the greatest commandments is love thy neighbour as yourself and I know a lot of those Seventh Day Adventists who are so proud of upholding the Sabbath do not follow that commandment!
I feel sorry for that woman because her church sisters and brothers will applaud her for taking the stand for her religion but she is out of a job in this economic climate and they are not going to pay her bills!
Luckily, she's found another job…in the university kitchen.
I am very familiar with 7th Day Adventist beliefs…and behaviour…and the 7th Day Adventists in Cayman are some of the most fanatical and aggressive the world over.
What has happened to this poor woman is that, after 12 years as a police officer, she unfortunately got brainwashed by this sectof religious fanatics…and is now being used to test Cayman's new constitutional human rights laws on religious freedom and discrimmination.
Anyone following Cayman's press since early 2006 would have read letters to Cayman Net News on this very same subject, the argument started by a 7th Day Adventist believer and responded to by knowledgeable Christians…very similar to some of the responses in these posts.
Cayman's 7th Day Adventists have a political agenda, particularly since they were allowed to have a voice in the 2009 Constitutional negotiations and this is the first challenge to Cayman Bill of Rights, on religious grounds, as this ex-police officer is intending to appeal this dismissal….the Human Rights Commission will be required to deal with this case eventually, once this appeal fails…as it most certainly will.
Along with all the other doctrinal differences between Christians, these Cayman 7th Day Adventists are in schism with other Christians, and even their own 7th Day Adventist brethren in other countries on one key point…the Christian church is not supposed to be contending with the legal authorities….Christians are encouraged to obey the laws of the land whenever possible.
It is a grave pity that one innocent soul is being used by some very fanatical people hiding behind the mantle of 7th Day Adventism, as heretical as the doctrine itself may be, for their own political and devious purposes.
If they are successful, what you will see is the 7th Day Adventist Church in the Cayman Islands use the human rights religious freedom laws to have Saturday declared an 'official day of rest', the same as Sunday, in the Cayman Islands and claim religious discrimmination when this is refused…there is massive religious problems heading Cayman's way, once this Bill of Rights is in place, particularly from this 7th Day Adventist Church, as they intend to create a situation that will fulfill their false prophet, Ellen G. White's 'prophecy' of religious persecution for their believers.
To force another to accept one's own belief or practise against one's own conscience is totally unChristlike. God never forces anyone and every Christian must recognise that we cannot. Contrary to your assertions SDAs have fought for the religious liberty of ALL. Google adventist religious liberty and look up the cases before spreading misleading and highly unprofitable statements about this denomination.
I don't need to Google 7th Day Adventists for knowledge about them…I happen to know them very well, those in Cayman and many abroad.
By your own reasoning, it is unChrist-like for your church sister, ex-police officer Solomon to attempt to force others, her employers and colleagues of the RCIPS to accept her religious beliefs, against the rules and obligations of a contract that she voluntarily signed and was employed under.
The Christian, honourable and honest thing for Ms. Solomon to do would have been to voluntarily resign from her job when she was not able or willing to fulfill its obligations…especially one as important to the public welfare as a police officer.
To promise to do something and then refuse to do it, for whatever reason, is blatantly dishonest, is it not ?
To refuse to come to work for as long as it took the RCIPS to fire her for absenteeism is not only dishonest because she was on full salary during this time, it was also selfish…are these not most unChristian-like values and behaviour ?
I refuse to sign my name to my comments but if I did, you would know that I know 7th Day Adventist and their agenda very well….
This is all about the 7th Day Adventist Church's attempt to force the Cayman Islands Govt. into declaring Saturday an 'official' day of rest so you all don't have to work on Saturday….and also 'legalising' your unChristianlike and heretical denounciation of all other Christians who worship on Sunday.
Be very careful I would warn you, as the human rights laws on discrimmination and freedom of religion works both ways and many statements made by the 7th Day Adventist Church about other Christians and religions already violate those laws.
If this is allowed to take place in Cayman, it will be a very sad and dangerous day for all Christians in the Cayman Islands
Who then, will 7th Day Adventists have to blame, when the very laws you are trying to manipulate are used against you, as they most certainly will be.
Flesh and blood could have not revealed this to you! People are perishing because of the lack of knowledge; I am completely behind your views on Religion. As a Christian I strongly disagree with all the terms and conditions some religions attach to the worshipers to be eligible to salvation. JUST LOVE YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND MIGHT AND LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR! –
Some people are feeling sorry for the officer but with all fairness to both parties, this was a decision she made! What will happen if everybody in the RCIP becomes adventists? No work on the Sabbath? The criminals will have a feast….
I was asked two weeks ago to work on Sunday which is my worship day but guess what, give to Caesar what is for Caesar and God what is for God. I had to comply.
God Himself walked this earth teaching us and we still immovable! – What a sad day that is going to be when redemption day will come. We are missing the big issues about salvation and people are going straight to Hell!
Gee, 8:53 is one of the few Christians – as opposed to the countless many self-proclaimed ones posting mindless dogmatic drivel here – who sounds like a rational person rather than coming across as a rabid religious maniac. His/her's is a posting I can respect.
Should not a Caymanian head this Commission? How is it possible for this gentleman, who I know and is very capable, to understand our true culture?
This story is about the legally binding effect that an employment contract has between two persons. What relevance does culture have to the application of the law? Are you suggesting that one's culture should determine whether the law is applicable in a given situation?
This is not a cultural issue. The person signed a contract to work and be on call whenever necessary. If this is granted why can't all Christians who worship on Sunday be excused on Sunday, etc. etc. the requests will go on and on. Doctors, nurses, firefighters, etc. all have to be on call 7 days per week.
Anon 13:58: Could you define what you mean by "true culture"? Then we could better assess your comment. Burger King? Turtle Stew? Cow Foot? Tripe and Beans? Conch Stew? Sea Pie? Cheeseburger and fries? Fish and chips? Radley and the Happy Boys? Beating children, flogging and hanging prisoners and no parole for them (if we don't hang them)? Dominos Pizza? The New Testament? Or the Old Testament? Tolerance of all people regardless of race, colour religion, sexual orientation? Or tolerance only if they are "generational" Caymanians, Bible based believers and not "afflicted" by homosexual urges.
Sorry, those are all native dishes and have nothing to do with true culture. True culture is when you stand up for what you believe in, even if it costs you your job.
He understands because he is an educated man and a Caymanian too.
She is getting a day or two of rest the fact that it is not on her Sabbath is just the way that it is. Many people's Sabbath is Sunday and if they have to work that day then they work that day. She is no different and I am sure she could praise the Lord while working.
How can Sabbatth (7) be Sunday (1)?
Please show us where GOD has changed His Law!
Sabbath keeping is a Biblica Law. Even the pope will tell you that Saturday is the Sabbath, and that Sunday worship is a catholic tradition:
All who keep Sunday do so out of reverence to the catholic church. Sunday has nothing to do with Jesus rising from the grave. The catholic church said that they (not GOD) changed the day because the pope has authority over the word of GOD.
This has been stated in hundreds of books written by the catholic organization. Do a google serach and see for yourself.
You talk about blasphemy!!!!
Monday is the first day of the week.
It certainly is the first day of the Week for me to go back to work. LOL
Happy hour and payday happens on Friday so that's definitely the first day for me.
Sunday can of course be the 7th if you start counting from Monday! Do you know for sure that creation was started on a Sunday?
When he was accused of breaking the Sabbath Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. It was meant to serve us, not to be our slave master. It was there to tell us to rest our bodies and quiet our souls (at least) one day in every seven for our own physical and spiritual health, not to be a source of continual angst. The New Living Translation puts it this way: "Then Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made to meet the needs of people, and not people to meet the requirements of the Sabbath".
There is nothing magical about Saturday. You all have missed the whole point.
Fight! Fight! Fight! Pointless religious arguments alert!
Saturday has nothing to do with Jesus rising from the grave either. The Sabbath (taken from Hebrew Shabbat or Shavat) is originally taken as a day of rest because on the 7th day God took a siesta. But if you're going to take pokes at the Catholic church (and why not, it is an easy target) remember that every single religion on earth has changed their rules at one time or another and all would swear it is in accordance to their god's wishes/laws/latest facebook update.
And don't forget: for God so loved the world that he gave His only son so that you may have salvation … and Saturday off.
Anon 1404 please dont forget that the Catholic Church claims St Peter as its first Pope. Indications are that the Christian Church started meeting on Sunday from his days. Of course the SDA claims that Constatine changed the day. In reality what he did was except Christianity as the official religion of rome. The church was already worshiping on Sunday.
I am not Catholic or Seventh-Day Adventist, but your argument is a matter of perspective or perception. Catholics see the Word of God like a two-edge sword. You have the Written Word (Bible) and you have the Spoken Word. So Catholics proudly affirm that the Pope changed the day from Saturday to Sunday in "honor of the ressurrection of JesusChrist" and the day of Penticost – that was authorized by the Spoken Word. The Bible says, holy men spoke as rgey were moved by the holy spirit." Whenever the Pope spoke on matters of faith and morality, that is the "Word of God" to a Catholic. Unlike Protestants that follow only the Bible, Catholics believe that both the Bible and oral tradition of the Church, pass down, must be adhered to. So Catholics declare the day change, because they see it coming from God. Again, it is a matter of perception of "what the word of God is" to you.
One thing that all churches are indebt to, is the Catholic Church and/or Orthodox Church, is the Holy Bible, because if it was not for the Mother Church the book would have not been preserved and there would have been no New Testament. The Church amassed all of the New Testament letters and made them into the sacred canon. Those letters or books that were not amassed, are referred to as the lost books of the Bible. So the Protestant world is indebt to a pope and church council that put together what we know as the Bible (the Written Word).
No it’s not. Thursday is.
Congratulations, you've proven that Saturday worship is BIBLICAL law, and that even the POPE agrees with it, and that the Catholics are all terrible sinners for not agreeing with you. What you HAVEN'T proven is that Saturday is the seventh day, or that GOD made this 'Law". In any event, as many posters have stated, this issue really has nothing to do with personal religious beliefs, but the fact that the lady signed a contract that she cannot or is unwilling to perform as a result of her personal choice. If you signed a contract with someone to cut your grass and they didn't show up to cut your grass would you want to keep your contract with them?
She could run a red light doing that.
Thank you Jesus!
You are most welcome.
This 7th Day Adventist doctrine has perverted the Gospel in ways that no other Christian denomination has done, in modern times.
For all practicing Christians, St. Paul, in the book of the Galatians, amd elswhere throughout the entire New Testament makes it quite clear that 'legalistic' doctrines regarding specific days of worship and specific limitations on diet (the Jewish law) is not true Christianity.
Sadly, now, because of her miss guided beliefs indoctrinated by this heretical doctrine, this ex-police officer is out of a job (her church will not provide her with financial support while she finds another one, thats for sure), the RCIPS has probably lost a good officer….and a truly believing Christain lady has again been led astray.
Good decision by the Human Rights Commission head, Mr. Coles.
And I assume you must have a correct interpretation of the Christian faith? I personally don't think that Mr. Cole made his decision off of which Christian faith is the best. I see some faulty reasoning on your part.
No….you've just misinterpreted my comment.
I meant a good decision by Richard Coles to not allow a religious denomination to use human rights laws to their own advantage.
Without a doubt, the 7th Day Adventist Church will soon be challenging Cayman's entire society to give their church membership blanket exemptions from having to work on Saturday….with other Christians not having the same privilege.
What would happen to Cayman, and the entire world, if all so-called Christians decided to not work on both Saturday and Sunday, especially in essential services such as the police, fire services and medical services ?
And they talk about fundamental Islam fanatacism !
How come the Jews don't come asking for the laws to be changed in their favour to worship on Saturday ?….they are rhe original Sabbath-keepers but you never hear them bullying the world over the Sabbath.
It is obvious that you don't understand what is meant when the book of Revelations talks about the Whore of Babylon and her daughters.
It has been said: that many are called, but few are chosen. That is why the SDA and other Sabbath-keeping people are so few in numbers compared to other Christians. The truth has never been popular. Sabbath-keeping = the Truth. Hope it sets you free!!!
So by your comments you are inferring that SDA's are the chosen.
I hear you sista! How naive, believe me you all are not going to get to heaven by just keeping the Sabbath, you have to work on a lot of other things if is by your works you expect to get there!
If 7th Day Adventists would read and follow Holy Scripture, instead of the rantings and ravings of their false prophet, Ellen G. White, they would know that the argument of the Jewish Sabbath(Saturday) and the Christian day of worship and communion (Sunday) is nothing new and that the entire Book of Acts of the Apostles is an historical account of this debate, which raged within the original Christian Church, long before Roman Catholic traditions were established.
They would know that the Biblical proof that Christians met, worshipped andheld communion on 'the first day of the week (Sunday) is found in:
Acts of the Apostles Chap. 20 vs 7 and…
Ist Corinthinians Chap. 16 vs 2
And that Christian faith reveres the first day of the week, Sunday, as commemorative of the day on which the Lord rose from the grave and that this tradition was established under Christian freedom, GRACE…which frees a Christian from being bound under the restrictions of Jewish law….the Sabbath is obligatory for Jews, not for Christians.
But 7th Day Adventist do not study Scripture outside of the heretical interpretations of Ellen G. White and thus brainwash themselves and unfortunately lead many other sincere seekers of the TRUTH astray….
As this police officer has been.
The first commandment is Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind. The second is this, love your neighbour as yourself. Jesus warned us about being too "Religious".
So now the SDA are the chosen and the rest of us are damned because we worship on a Sunday. It would be hilarious if it were not so tragic that there are people so in bondage to legalism that they actually believe this garbage. You are not free, my dear. You have placed yourself under the law and as such you must observe all 613 commandments of the law, not just the Sabbath law and dietary laws. Remember "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone that does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law; to do them.' (Gal. 3:10).
A Christian is known by his love not by observing a Sabbath day and thinking himself spiritually superior to all others who don't. A Christian is led by the Spirit of God not trying to earn his salvation through the works of the law.
Since you value truth you should denounce your religion's false prophet Ellen G. White. The world did not end in 1843, 1844, 1845 or 1851.
No it didn't….but 7th Day Adventists explain William Miller's mistaken 'date-setting' calender by claiming that their false prophet, Ellen G. White, was given visions that this was a Graet Disapointment…that God disappointed them by not returning on those dates…not that they are sinful, mistaken and fanatical in their belief in the writings of this false prophet.
Anyone seeking knowledge of the Christian faith would do well to avoid these people…the example of this innocent police officer who has been tempted into losing her job and career should be warning enough.
This cult will destroy the lives of many before this is all over.
I would hope that this new convert of the Cayman Islands Seven Day Adventist Church
will be financially maintained by "The Church" when her monthly bills become due.
I certainly know for fact that they WILL look forward to their ten percent members contribution from her!
As for them being Christians…….
According to their doctrine, All who worship Jesus in church on a Sunday is going to hell.
And let's not forget the immitation conch, available from their Health food store.
Imitation conch? Eeeeewwwwww!
Another case of the church being used as a tool for personal means. I am a Sunday worshipper and I thank my God that when I have to work on a Sunday or Good Friday or Christmas Day that first of all I am able to work, second of all that I have a job and thirdly I am thankful that I worship a God who doesnt judge me and persecute me and condemn me to Hell for earning an honest living. I look at it as a great opportunity to be a witness in whatever way He may present that day……Personally, I worship my creator everyday and attend a service on days or evenings that I am not working and I trust I will go to my eternal reward. I challenge anyone else to judge me on that and urge people like the RCIPS Officer to witness 7 days a week….not just the 7th day. By having a job she can tithe which is also expected of us and you cant tithe with no income.
“By having a job she can tithe which is also expected of us and you cant tithe with no income”.
That’s all the churches care about anyway. How can she buy her way into heaven without a job? As the musician Bono once said, “The God I believe in isn’t short of cash”.
Going to church on Sunday (or Saturday) doesn’t make you a good Christian. It’s what you do the rest of the week that is important.
That is why you should pray to God and reflect on your own values before signing any agreement or contract. Once you sign it, it is no ones else fault but yours. Then again, people in Cayman looking for jobs, have no other choice, but to sign a contract for a living. The opportunities here are slim.
This is a shame. My imaginary friend says I shouldn't work at all. I was hoping to require my boss to pay me even though I'm not prepared to work on any day of the week.