Mac: Port must be in GT
(CNS): The premier has said that the cruise berthing facilities must be in George Town as a result of the investment made there by many local merchants and because of the infrastructure. Sounding less upbeat about the progress of the berthing facilities than on previous occasions, McKeeva Bush described efforts made to develop berthing facilities since 2003 but said that because of constant opposition and other issues it hadn’t happened. Speaking about the proposals to develop in South Sound, he said he wasn’t qualified to say whether that location was any better but at this time the port had to be in George Town because it was not possible to shift the location away from the capital.
Speaking about tourism at a town hall meeting in Pedro on Tuesday evening, he said he was getting the blame for the failure to develop the port but every time aproposal had been presented it has been opposed and people have criticised the plans. “Hopefully the one we have now will work out,” he said referring to the latest MOU with a Chinese firm, China Harbour Engineering Company (CHEC), and the talks now headed by the UDP backbencher Ellio Solomon.
Bush said he believed it was the best deal so far, better than either Dart Enterprises Contracting Co (DECCO) or GLF Construction, the two companies that had been in previous talks with government to build the cruise port. He said he would be providing a fully updated statement about the project very soon and hoped to have a positive announcement about it before the year.
In the wake of submissions by a group of sea captains regarding the alternative proposal of developing the facilities in South Sound (Red Bay), Bush said everyone believed they were an expert on where the facilities should be but he had not given an opinion on that proposal. However, he said that he recognised that George Town was not necessarily the best location as he still believed the best place was the North Sound, but no one wanted it there.
He said the issue of South Sound may well provide an option for the future but right now the facilities had to be developed in the capital, where people had invested millions of dollars in retail and the infrastructure.
Regardless of the back and forth, his government was pushing ahead with the plans to work with CHEC and he intended to do that until “they throw me out”, he said. While many people were criticising the choice and saying that government should not work with the Chinese firm, he said they had offered the best deal.
He said DECCO’s proposals was criticised as people were saying Dart had too much in the country already and the company had wanted a 99 year lease. He said he had to reject the GLF proposal as he was not convinced they had the money, so the Chinese deal offered the best and cheapest option for the country because they required no guarantees.
He also repeated previous comments about opportunities for Caymanians to invest and have equity in the project but did not go into details about how that would be achieved.
Category: Politics
Caymanian captains simply do not count in this equation don't they know who runs this Town.Cayman identity is no longer relevant in this island some just can't seem to get their little heads around it. When the majority speaks Cayman you better listen! or feel our wrath
……majority of who?? "Who runs this town"?..the merchants?? the Jamaicans?? don't be silly. go find something to do.
Use a Wave Machine with a model of the coastline (George Town/RedBay areas) to determine what impacts the dock designs may have on our coast line based on depth and forces during norwesters and hurricanes. This may provide us with some solution to this ever nagging question of what will or may happen. This may also help with the engineering of the Dock structure and aid in construction of a long term facility.
Damien DaCosta
You people can't hear what Bo$$ HOG said or wha ? NO GL Deaf or RED Bay Payday $ 4 U please go and sit down before i push you down!
The cruise port needs to be at Pedro.
I work in GT, and I have yet to find anyone who thinks GLF’s proposal wasn’t exactly what we need. It was sane.
So, I am left to wonder why we are going with the far less desirable (and far more costly) option of CHEC. That is if it ever materializes all!.
If you want to know why China Harbour Engineering: follow the money.
Whilst I abhor nearly all of Mr. Bushes ideas, on this one he is right.
If we do not address &meet the needs of our cruise ship customers we are doomed. The dock must go in GT. We cannot grow or even maintain our product with an off-site dock. The cruise customers are EXTREMELY price driven. They want to step off the ship and be at a destination. Red Bay is not a destination. Cruisers do not want to pay an extra $10 to 50 dollars for a bus and/or cab from the middle of nowhere to their ‘destination’. Also if ships went to Red Bay, then tours would return to Red Bay. So
George Town merchants would not see any dollars from returning tour customers. Why would a customer go from Red Bay to sandbar and then back to GT? No!!! They would go back to the ship in Red Bay.
Just build 2 finger piers that can handle berthing, and clean up Spotts. Fast and dirty. Forget all this unnecessary (and costly) crap.
Just my 2 cents.
McKeeva reminds me of my mother. If you say the sky is orange, she would say it green. We need to pull some reverse psychology on him and get him to do what we want. If we say CHEC, he'll go back to GLF.
Atlantic Starr would have had this built by now but he had to cancel that too. That man destroys everything.
It is painful to see the Cayman Islands go the way of the rest of the Caribbean .
I thought we would have learned from the mistakes of our neighbours
LOL LOL LOL LOL………."McKeeva Bush described efforts made to develop berthing facilities since 2003 but said that because of constant opposition and other issues it hadn’t happened."
Somebody tell me, tell me please, what happened a few weeks ago between Glidden, Mac and GLF!!!
"Constant opposition" or "other issues?
aaaaiye boiye, ya can hear some sh!t
"The premier has said that the cruise berthing facilities must be in George Town.."
Errr.., I thought Red Bay WAS in the Capital?
"Sounding less upbeat about the progress of the berthing facilities than on previous occasions.."
Prob because of the lawsuit settlement with GLF, which was caused by him
LOL – learn your geography !
Another case of Foot in Mouth…
GT is the Capital, and Red Bay is in GT – what is your point in your post?
My fellow citizens of Grand Cayman I believe that there may be consensus in the answer that there is need for a Cruise Berthing Facility. However, it appears that the final location of it is debatable. Nevertheless, Tourism must remain a significant pillar of our economy if all of us want to remain free of direct taxes such as but not limited to Property and Payroll Tax.
The United Kingdom has with reasonable care and effort recently placed restrictions (FFR) on our elected Politicians to live within prudent budgetary lines. However, with Government recently giving payroll increases for the entire Civil Service and no intended belt tightening between now and the next Fiscal Year, we already have a forecast of not less than CI $4.5 million in deficit less than six calendar months out! You do not need to hold a degree in Economics or any other discipline to realize that if our Government and successive ones continues down this path of what seems to be undisciplined spending, there is no doubt that we all will need TOURISM and its various sectors to contribute to the bottom-line in the hope it will mitigate the chances of direct Taxes.
Having studied this market for a number of years, consequently it is not unreasonable to say we have in essence the Crown Jewel of the Cayman Islands right here on Grand Cayman and that is the renowned Seven Mile Beach. This wonderful stretch of golden sand, crystal clear waters were the catalyst of the construction boom over the past three (3) decades. Its sheer unique beauty toppled Manhattan several years back as being the most expensive place to purchase real estate. Condominiums even today sell for thousands of dollars per square foot; Time Shares are consistently listed in the Red Zone year round resulting in higher occupancy levels and sales prices. Thus greater fees to Government.
The Financial Services Market in the scheme of things can easily leave this jurisdiction for the next cheapest and more friendlier jurisdiction, then what? However, our ideal location in the gorgeous tropics less than ninety minutes away from mainland United States by airplane, ensures that if we plan correctly tourism will always be the backbone of the Cayman Islands’ economy.
Having prefaced my contribution with the utmost importance of the Tourism dollar, we must then ensure that we do not throw the baby out with the bathwater so-to-speak, insofar that we possibly jeopardize our Crown Jewel “The Seven Mile Beach” by introducing a new coastline that could possibly negatively affect this most valuable stretch of golden sands.
I respectfully suggest that considering we are in the era of digital imagining, Doppler radar, DNA mapping and a list of other wonderful computer aided programs that can go on and on, I urge each of you to demand of the Premier and the Governor pursuant to the Governor (Vesting of Lands) Law (2005 Revision) specifically Section 10. (2) (a) which states that both individuals must ensure that all the details of the proposed disposition and the reasons for proposing it (i.e. A thorough Business Plan) contains not less than two (2) independent thorough digital modeling and forecasting scenarios based on the Airy Wave Theory for the immediate area of Hog Sty Bay and the entire length of the Seven Mile Beach. At the very least these two scenarios can allow us to make an informed decision whether this proposed plan will be a detriment or benefit to our irreplaceable and incomparable Seven Mile Beach
Please do not forget that less than ten years ago we were losing a significant section of the Seven Mile Beach in the vicinity of the Marriott and Royal Palms due to severe erosion primarily caused by construction that may have slightly altered the coastline.
Take note that in the aforementioned Law { “Governor (Vesting of Lands) Law (2005 Revision)” } states that the Governor is holding Crown Land on behalf of Her Majesty for our benefit not detriment! His Excellency the Governor must take this charge seriously as an entire territory’s future is at stake!
McKeeva you know that Charles Clifford told your point man at the time CG that if you all abandoned his plan and the EIA which was underway and if you chose to start from scratch that the project would be delayed for at least 2 years. CG said no that you all had your own plans and construction was starting in the first quarter of 2010.
Might I remind you McKeeva that we are approaching the first quarter of 2012 and we don't even have an agreement in place with anyone much less a berthing project that is started.
The big question though McKeeva is what is it that you wanted from this project that GLF couldn't provide that the Chinese apparently can and will provide ?? Tell us nah !
The taxi drivers said that the Chuckster wasn't doing anything for cruise tourism……they were greedy……..one must wonder what they are saying now that cruise tourism is 20% down under you McKeeva.
Now anyone who knows anything about what it takes to establish berthing facilities will know that you cannot under any scenario achieve this project during the short 17 months that you have left in office McKeeva.
You don't want to be blamed for this and despite what some people might think you don't want CG to be blamed either. So you looked to the rookie in the group who is so naiive that he doesn't know when he's being set up. He says he has a track record and he is going to do it. Clearly he is so far in over his head that he doesn't even appreciate how deep the water is.
So there you have it with Foolie at the back of class with is hand up saying….."Me teacher I know the answer"
What is pathetic is that while you all play this game within the UDP, George Town is rapidly becoming a ghost town with businesses closing and people being laid off and losing their homes and families.
17 months left for you McKeeva or less perhaps !!!
Of course it has to be built in GT. It is a tourism investment and that is our tourism hub. Only in Cayman would the views of retired seamen without marine engineering qualifications jeopardise the sensible positioning of the dock.
These gentleman are retired highly qualified master mariners who captained very large ocean-going vessels. Similarly the cruise lines do take into account the views of the captains of their vessels.
You can disagree without being rude and disrespectful.
what are their qualifications?
Capt. McCoy holds almost every type of master mariner licence available. He has been trained in all areas of shipping from navigation to Master in Command of all size vessels and been master of some of the largest ships afloat (one almost 1,600 feet long) and is currently active. He has just returned from the Gulf of Mexico where he was instructing senior BP captains on berthing and off-loading. I understand that he will soon be doing the same in a simulator in northern Europe.
Master Mariner is a qualification. Look it up!
Alan,
Sign-off on the sensible positioning of a dock IS the exclusive territory of the sea captains. The cruise lines do not allow their ships to go to a berth that their Chief Captains do not first approve.
The marine engineers design the facility after the sign-off by the Captains of the general location. Both groups do NOT necessary take into account what happens onshore. That is for the politicians and the people to get right or wrong.
You need to understand what each party does before you post nonsense. GT is a northwester and hurricane prone, exposed location. Ships will continue to by-pass even the first year after we spend $300M there. Guaranteed….. plain & simple.
BTW, GT is NOT our tourism hub. That would be 7-mile beach. take a tour sometime.
Captain McCoy has responded to the Premier's statement.
See "www.CaymanCruisePort.com"
when dart walked away….this whole project was doomed…..
nice one cayman….not only do you look a gift horse in the mouth … you shoot it in the head…
Let them eat turtle.
After attending a meeting yesterday at the Chamber offices I certainly do agree with one person who I believe represented the new group who might be able to put together a local group of investors that will be able to work on the new dock(Red Bay/G/town)If it can be done at least we know that the money being used will remain here in the Cayman Islands and more importantly the profits reaped will stay here.and not be taken elsewhere by a foreign company.I am sure we have enough expertise here to make this do-able so I would certainly agree if this could be done.The local banks would be involved I am sure in some way and that would bolster our economy and put many locals to work as well.Some labour would have to come in I am sure but the bulk or much of the work would done by local contractors.I certainly hope I understood this correctly from the meeting.
Peter, I still worry about dredging a huge hole off George Town where the sand will gather as it moves up and down 7 mile beach. Was any concern or explanation given about this risk?
Yes It was mentioned by Bob Soto and I agree with that assumption.but on the other hand hopefully a proper study will be done and the design of the dock(only on pillings)will hopefully lessen that problem.It also depends on how much digging is done.I hope not too much.but I do share your concern
Peter,
I was there also. You are correct and that would make more sense than sending all that money to Beijing each day. I also heard that Red Bay would actually be easier to build making it even more suitable for the local contractors. I hope they put this together instead of seeing our contractors close down as the Chinese take over town.
He actually admitted he's not qualified?!!! My my my….there is hope afterall.
News Flash: The people will "constantly oppose" and continue to constantly oppose any of your so-called projects by: A. Asking questions B. Wanting value for money. C. Demanding accountability for poor decisions. Get used to it.
Come on McKeeva, the only one that opposed (and cancelled) the GLF proposal was you. Stop placing blame and get it done. You are wearing on everyone's patience!
No lie!! The GLF dock was exactly what we needed. How sad and short sighed too screw them over for CHEC. There is no logic.
I needs to be in George Town period.
It is ridiculous to bus people around once they disembark. It's the same as lining up to get a tender.
You would be swapping one line for another.
Pay attention!!
I surely hope we stop busing the majority of them on our tours, sting ray city and turtle farm. That will really cut down traffic. NOT.
George Town is the best place for the port, and the deal with the Chinese is the worst option to get it built!
CNS): "The premier has said that the cruise berthing facilities must be in George Town as a result of the investment made their by many local merchants" I agree, but couldn't we as well have the people of these islands, participate in a vote or survey, and acknowledge what they think and feel about the major issues regarding a berthing facility and tourism in the Cayman Islands? Why is it that these guys are always calling the shots for what's best for Cayman? For crying out loud, in your development initiatives, show some democracy!
Would the people be given the option to vote for no berthing facility?
We vote for the government to make these decisions, it's their job. What will be the point in having elected officials if we vote for every decision ourselves. Frankly I don't have the time to vote everyday.
I can see the point of having a referendum for material constitution changes or independence, but for development issues.
All the taxi drivers are for the move to Red Bay, I wonder why?
All the businesses want the dock in georgetown i wonder why? Please don't say investment. People who own taxis and busses and boats invested also. The amount matters not. The stores are mostly dutyfree. Where is the trickle down economics to the people of Cayman. Try renting a store in georgetown. Then try getting a job in george town. Hmm get the point yet? This will allow more trickle down…
What would happen if Royal Watler would turn into a shopping mall and the two giants would be banned from renting there? What would happen if the Chinese had the shops there for 99 years? They would be the biggest investers there right? Please put it in Red Bay its the best place for all Caymanians Thank you.
Changing venue wouldn't matter. It is the labor and anti-business laws that we need to reform. Businesses should be given incentives if they hire Caymanians to at least 50% of their workforce and/or educate young Caymanians to work for them with recognizable certification. They should be exempted from having to pay certain fees. Laws could be in place to dramatically lower work permit cost for those companies that constribute the most back to the community in terms of employment and education. It is so simple even a 5 year old could do the math. As well give Caymanians incentives and lower T&B fees to start their own businesses and create more jobs. If we had applied the Linton Tibbetts way of doing business a long time ago, we wouldn't have been in this mess.
Trust me, if you cared, if you found out that a policy or law is to be passed in your community, on your doorstep, or backyard… you will anxiously find the time to vote.
You will declare like others, "I live, work, call this place my home, I elected these MLA's in power and this is not what I elected them to do!"
The people per each district or constituency, should have, at least an ounce of political power to remove MLA's or politicians that are not representing them. Not have to wait until after 4 years whilst the two party system, really the wreck up the country! We need a fairer referendum process, initiation, and be able to recall politicians. We also need UK representation not only for our financial industry – but most importantly, UK representation to secure our democratic rights and liberties from modern day colonial acts.
Vote? Okay, sounds fair. How ’bout you put up a couple million, then loose
it all to an uneducated boob. Then wait 3 years covered in shit, kept in the dark, with no say while your future is determined by someone with a grade school education. Yeah, lets vote. I vote for the squid.
Mr. Bush, if you truly care about the George Town merchants that have invested so heavily over the years(and who have been losing so much over the past several years) and the overall future of Caymanian businesses, you should immediately cease discussions with CHEC and re-establish negotiations with GLF.
GLF's plan is by far the best plan for local businesses as it minimizes retail on the port(20,000 sq ft vs. 100,000+ sq ft for CHEC) and only requires a 25 year lease. Why are you continuing to make us suffer? It could only be for your own personal benefit, because it sure as hell isn't for ours! If that is the case I think you should really consider leaving Boltins Ave and heading east, The Far East!
Please stop talkinG and build the DAMN PORT!
Excellent news! This should hopefully stop the South Sound Red (Bay) Herring in its tracks.
Poor Bueller,
Swallowed that much lemonade, did you?
I am sure the captains are not ones to give up on a simple statement by the Premier- nothing he has said these last two years has come true. His statement is likely the only "herring" in the room.
Thank goodness the UK has to sign off on the 'value-for-money' and the Environmental reports. I cannot wait to see them given the position of the countries finances and the reef loss there.
If Mac thinks the Chinese are going to let Caymanians get any part of the proceeds from this project he's been smoking the wrong stuff. Look at what has been happening with CHEC in Jamaica.
He's also again conveniently ducked the issue of the one vital element missing from these proposals – the feasibilty study. Where are the figures to show that the cruise berth will, wherever it goes, attract enough business to be self-funding? There's a simple answer to that – there aren't any.
Don't be fooled people. GLF has the money. As you saw from CG's email, GLF was actually putting $39 million of their own money into the project in addition to the Citibank financing. While we speak, our competition in the Bahamas is using the very same Citibank to finance their US$400 million dollar airport redevelopment project in Nassau, and winning awards for it nevertheless!
In the immortals words of Bugs Bunny, "What a Maroon".
HE STOPPED GLF. HIM. Not us. HIM. HIM as in Premier McKeeva Bush. HIM as in head of UDP. Apparently unbenounced to his own party member Mr. Cline Glidden who had RECOMMENDED GLF. And……Mr. Cline Glidden was, AT THE TIME, the MLA in charge of the project. OR SO WE THOUGHT.
What a Maroon….
Such a spin doctor. Trying as usual to pin the tail on another DONKEY BUT HIMSELF.
Let's see now…..
GLF was recommended by Mr. Cline Glidden who is party member to UDP.
GLF was also the winning bidder to the project and recommended by CTC.
GLF also fulfilled and went apparently slightly ABOVE AND BEYOND what was needed and yet THE PREMIER, MR. Bush CANCELLED it.
SPIN THAT WILL YOU!!!!!
God WHAT A MAROON!!!
Dred, you use this word a lot, but tell me please, what the hell's a maroon?
You need to watch some old Bugs Bunny cartoons from the 1950's and 1960's to get it.
Honestly. You have to ask? You really can't figure it out? Are you the Premier?
At least he admitted George town was not the best location but he was going to make the decision to spend $300 million there anyway….typical! My way or the highway. True Mac.
Admitted. That sums him up. He should have been admitted long ago.
Not listening to the people will sure get you reelected! I guess it’s got that time where something has to get done, even if it’s wrong as elections are almost here.
Sure it has to be in Town, otherwise I will not receive my $16 Million.
I sure hope the Kirks and Island companies will wake up. They are big losers in town when the Chinese move in with their mega mall there. Their same investments will be worth nothing. They are only being used.
Kirks and Island Companies should insist on the GLF plan as the two of them could be the the main tenants in the GLF plan which only had a maximum of 20,000 sq ft of retail.
i wouldnt worry about island companies, it is a dart company – i bet dart could shut down island companies tomorrow and not lose any sleep about a bad investment…..otherwise, why would they so easily walk away from the port deal that they were chasing (under Decco name)…think about it….they're planning long term up camana bay and beyond…so if someone else builds a port, they'll win anyhow as they'll run tours to camana bay and they'll have th ebig stores there….pretty clever really……i know it seems crazy, but dart is so wealthy, losing out downtown is probably a very small line item on their big P&L and thats simply the way things are……as to Kirks…..do you really think they're awake at the wheel on this one? they're the same guys who built a massive shopping mall at the wrong end of town even when they knew the current port was being built at the other end…..
All Caymanian media houses need to press the Premier on exactly how Caymanians can invest and have equityin the project. This has been repeated several times now and yet no one has queried how (Austin / Gilbert). Surely, if true, the ministers must have some idea. Indeed, if its such a good deal, they would be interested themselves. I can't help but think its an outright lie to gain support.
The question of HOW someone can invest in this project is irrelevant at this time.
Just ask yourself, WHO would invest in a project under the control of McKeeva, Ellio, and the rest of the UDP?
You are going to have to wait a long time before you find out how Caymanians can invest in this deal. Ha.
Thank you for clarifying the location of the yet to be built berthing facility. When I disembark, I head for the museum gift shop to purchase locally made jewelry and then walk to the Lobster Pot for lunch after which I return to my ship.
It's nice to know I won't have to take a bus or a taxi to accomplish what is now a leisurely walk along the waterfront in George Town.
May want to rethink the lobster pot
When you visit Lobster Pot next time you will look out onto the side of those two concrete finger piers that you seem to love putting there. Plus your ship will be much closer to shore doing away with those lovely little snorkelers and boaters that you see from the Pot.
Sorry the let you know the piers actually face NW so no more seaward views from there. Try the Wharf, or in your case, Kentucy Fried Chicken, they are only another 1/4 mile walk.
Be careful what one wishes for….
Amen to that!
" Because of constant opposition and other issues it hadn't happened" … Based on the Priestly legal advice and Glidden email you were the only one who opposed GLF. There is no doubt other issues are involved which created your opposition. Truth will out. Its all very unfortunate as your job is to stimulate the economy and with either Dart of GLF work would have been well under way by now.
But will the "truth will be out" happen before Mac commits us to something that we can not change for generations.
This is what we have to fear in all of these " projects of his". It is the people of the Cayman Islands that stand to lose not him. He will be just fine.
The economic life boats on the good ship Cayman are for the first class passangers and the captain only.
The rest of us will go down with the ship.
If it looks like… If it smells like… If it feels like… If it sounds like … Then it probably is …
I may be wrong. This might be urban ledgend. This might be marl road drivel. Maybe a politrixter has planted false evidence. Who knows?
But my suspicion is that the cruise ship port construction has been delayed by XXXX
I have to give mac that, it has to be in GT. South sound is the dumbest thing I have heard in an age. But the reason you are getting pushed back mac is because you are handling it and very badly at that. You are under investigation for corruption and doing business with a firm that is known for corruption.
We all know how you do business, how you have been doing it for years and even if it was the best thing to ever happen to Cayman it can not be trusted because you are a part of it.
Just because you are a part of the Dart/West Bay road development deal it is looked on with great suspision when in actual fact it is one of the best deals in history for these islands.
You are killing these islands, step down now, do the right thing, you cannot be trusted and no one trusts you. Go home and stay behind your walls, we will let you keep them, but others are coming for you who are not so forgiving and you may have a different kind of garden view in your future.
This is really the problem. He can do no right. That's why he needs to give it up.
"McKeeva Bush described efforts made to develop berthing facilities since 2003 but because of constant opposition and other issues it hadn’t happened".
Does he mean like when the PPM had an MOU for the construction of the berthing facility and he cancelled it when his govt. was elected in 2009 and started again from scratch? The facility would have been in place now had he allowed it to proceed.
Yall catch up with this sources say that the PPM didnt know what a Businesscasewas when dealing with Atlantic Star. Yow all a dat mouth and no answers. Thatgoesfor Ezzard too they telling whenhewasdoinghishospital. If yallrememberMckeeva Bushstopped it. Now can y’all see why Exxard wants to take the Premier out. But wait wasn’t yea founding member of UDP. My laws the Breadfruits are mellow.
Are you really trying to compare in terms of corruption Ezzard to McKeeva? Honestly! Really? I will say this. Prior to this last term i wouldn't trust Ezzard but he has gotten mu attention and respect. Premier on the other hand never had my respect XXXX This is BY FAR AND AWAY the worst government these Islands have ever had and i wish not one of the UDP members ever sit in our LA ever again. EVER AGAIN!