Mac backs a ‘new’ McLean
(CNS): More than a year away from the general election Nomination Day, the premier has thrown his support behind John McLean Jr as his candidate of choice for East End. Although McKeeva Bush said that McLean Jr, who will run against the incumbent Arden McLean, is not a member of the UDP, he emphatically backed him at a public meeting in the district last night. The premier stated publicly that he would be giving the proposed candidate some $200,000 from the Dart donation for him to project manage a number of local community initiatives in an unorthodox move that would by-pass the official PPM member of the Legislative Assembly for East End.
In an orchestrated public meeting in East End on the very spot used by the opposition member Arden McLean just a week ago, the premier took aim at the current MLA and accused him of doing nothing for his district as he backed the younger McLean to take the seat in 2013. Although he emphasised that McLean Jr says he is running as an independent candidate, Bush made it very clear he had the full support of the UDP.
Bush said the young would-be politician had come to government with plans and proposals for the district, which he had presented well and justified his reasons for asking. As a result, the audience heard, government “was going to help him” and Bush said he would get money to open a community boxing and regular gym as well as a tourism and craft market, among other things.
Despite the obvious implications, Bush openly revealed that the cash he was giving to his anointed candidate would come from the money being donated to government from Dart as part of the proposed ForCayman Investment Alliance.
The premier claimed it was McLean Jr that had come to government first about getting things done at the school, although the current MLA McLean had said it was him that had acquired the government money for the East End primary school improvements.
Bush told the people of East End that, unlike their current representative, the UDP had tried to help the people, as he pointed to the affordable housing that had been built in the district and the work East Enders had been given under the nationwide clean-up programme. He said they would get more work when Dr Devi Shetty’s hospital project was underway.
He called out Arden McLean for not giving work to the people in the district when he was a minister and had the seawall built. He criticised him, too, for trying to take credit for getting Shetty to agree to build an old folks home in East End, as Bush said an assisted living facility had always been a planned part of the project.
Although the meeting, which attracted a large crowd across the street at the local bar, was billed as a government update, it looked very much like a UDP election campaign meeting as Bush spent considerable time attacking the district’s opposition member and praising his preferred candidate.
The premier did, however, cover many of the same issues that he had covered at the recent George Town meeting. He continued to attack and criticise all of those opposing the various projects that his government was attempting to get started and said he needed the support of the people for these projects to get them back to work. Bush complained that he had to “put up with good governance”, as he pointed to the auditor general and the governor, who were insisting that he follow certain processes before the key deals, such as the cruise dock and the ForCayman Investment Alliance, could be signed.
Category: Politics
To: Sat, 03/03/2012 – 05:07, I live with a woman from Belize and she does not know what you are talking about. So please do not tell anymore lies on Mr. Dart. Belize is a very properous country.
That boy is handsome and young with a smile. I will vote for him. I am sure he will come with new ideas.
We are looking for people to run our country Cayman, not handsome young boys with a smile. That is the kind of stupid voting mentality that got us in the mess we are in today.
It's a corny photo right out of 80's USA electioneering, designed to influence the less astute to vote for the nice young man who looks like "he's a success, knows what he wants, and how to get it done… etc. etc." What you should be asking yourself is, what is his track record in his own life so far ? (and political life if he has one). I'm not aware of him already being a typical man of the people, just another chancer trying his luck I reckon. By all means prove me wrong, set the record staight, but please don't vote for someone just because they seem to have the right look about them!
Don’t forget dart was in Belieze in they kick him out, I leave the rest for u find out Cayman!!!
In short, John McLean Jr. won't get far, after basically being endorsed by this maniac. As was stated before, be careful who you affiliate yourself with.
Run Johnie run!
Run while you can, Johnie!
Yes Johnnie – run while you can ~ straight to the LA.
Just remember, our fax machine is not for your personal use.
Johnny, think it what it may! you run with the party that has the most developers and investors behind them.
Dont forget the history, the great USA made 4 years ago, when all the industries and big money put a BLACK man President of the USA.
He had the most campaign funds in the history of the USA. Caymanians need someone like you that has the people at heart. Dont give up on your people, there's not much of us left, but at least give us the dignity to keep our families in food, shelter and education.
The big money people did not put Barack Obama into office. Instead, millions of small donors over the internet swelled his campaign coffers.
That is good advice for the greedy and unscrupulous. There is no such thing as a free lunch. As we have seen with McKeeva's govt. you will no longer represent the people who elected you but the big money donors.
Word of advice to young John: Be careful with whom you politically "afflilate", becuase your political career might be scuppered before it begins. "Independent" should mean independent,
Mr. Duncan Taylor:
Can you please stand up and let us know what the FCO and Her Majesty's Government have to say about this $200k payment?
Is it par for the course good governance or corruption?
The wider question is what kind of organisation is the DART group if this is how they conduct business?
Do they think this kind of behaviour is kept under wraps? The entire world can read CNS and savvy honest investors will not elect to do business in Cayman and especially not with the Cayman Islands Government.
XXXXXX
How does DART intend for "Caymana Bay" and the Cayman Islands to flourish if the economy is crippled by the perception of corruption?
Seriously? Premier must equal Dictator! Big Mac has learnt from Fidel.
Keke not taking note from Fidal, go a lil farther south, MAC taken political lessons from Jamaician Party members, and Baines is in close connections with Jamaicia "anti-corruption dept" lol, and this is according to his anouncement on rooster 101 "talk with the commissioner".
So with this being the case, do we really have to wonder where we are headed, or where we have gone wrong???
This is just blatant vote-buying.
You cannot accept a political party's money and be called 'independent'.
Corporate and private donations to a ploitical candidate is 'lobbying; a completely different thing to giving and accepting money to have an advantage over your opponent come election time.
I'd so love to see Cayman's voters tell McKeeva Bush and Dart where to take their money and 'shove it' in these next elections.
sacha baron cohen should base his next movie on mckeeva!
I will run as an independent too…I will run anywhere with a quarter of a million!
Ugh!
My God! Did this really happen!!?
WTF?!?!
This is just a down right insult to our people,country and democracy! Will some one get this a_hole out of office or else I will have to come over there and deal with this.
By my calculations $250K can only buy about 4 votes. If we take the example of Andre and Waldo and the other two whose names I have forgotten, $5000 per month for four East End Park Rangers to patrol Coxswain Hole from now until the next election would use up the entire sum.
Regardles of how the money is spent, should he be successful in buying the majority of the electorate in East End then there will be no more money forthcoming until the next general election. The West Bay electorate seem to have very short memories and vote for whomever gives them a little "hep" the week of elections, but I doubt that the people of East End or anywhere else in Cayman (other than perhaps certain parts of Cayman Brac) are that gullible.
Really. The $500 envelopes are hand delivered. Driver and Car Rental paid in full.
Arden, this is just one more thing that you have to talk about with the FCO in London.
What will Dart do when the UDP are no longer in power and he finds he has wasted his money on them? The time is just around the corner!
Dart has had to deal with whatever idiots you elect and he will continue to have to do so.
250,000!!! That's a lot of refrigerators, ac units, and cases of beer!! West Bayers must be furious that they not getting any, afterall they voted HIM in.
COME ON EAST END! Stand tall and strong like the men and women you have always been behind your experienced, brave and dedicated leader. Cayman is depending on you to NOT give your country away like the West Bayers and George Towners and Bodden Towners. Cayman is in a desperate enough position already and the cancer is very obviously very determined to spread until it consumes us all. DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN East End.
Hey johnnie take the money and do what you have to do for the people of east end. We the people of north side need some help up hear also. so mr bush dont forget about us in north side help us out . because we have no future under or leader now.
Signed by 10 voters of north side
Hahahaha, 10 voters that could not even give themselves 1 thumbs up!!! Hahahahahaha
You are one of the few idiots in North Side and just exposed your ignorance. Your representative is not perfect but he is sure is doing a much better job thansome of the others. I hope your alternative isn't the punk I heard is being set up by the UDP but I really think North Siders have better sense. God help them and us if they dont!
You need to tell Mac who you want to handle the cash.
It would appear that ANY good that Mr. McLean has done, can do, and will do is greatly overshadowed by all the MANY bad things that Bush has already done. Even though Bush still holds the key to the puplics money box the general consenses is the money ONLY goes to whats good for Bush and never goes toward whats good for the people.
Yet he is still "Premier" which in Caymanian means holder of the cash box.
And people who actually work for the good of the people (like John) have to sell their soul to get the peoples money to work for them. Caymankind. And truly Pathitic. Caymanians should not be proud of what they have created and called Government.
Na today Bobo them East Enders going be una match . Mckeeve stop wasting Government money or should i say DART money.
John Jr, You are a good guy and I believe you want to help your district!
The honorable thing to do is to turn down the cow-towing by the Premier and instead request that the funds be placed in an account for East End and managed by the current MLA.
We used to have respect in this country, but it seems that we have replaced respect and decency with dollar bills and political deviance!
Arden, you just won aneasyer reelection as the man that can not be bought.
Here is an idea.
Johnny, you run in the 2013 elections, if you win and become EE representative, then and only then will you ask the Government for and accept the money to do these projects in EE.
Mr. Premier since you want to help the people of EE and you have this money to burn, in the event that Johnny is not successful and Arden is back in, you take the$200K and give it to him to do these projects.
Now I know you is a Christian man Mr. Premier and you got a pure heart and clean hands so I say hold off dangling that carrot in front of Johnny. Just encourage Johnny to run and simply say “Whoever wins, I am giving the 200K to for the betterment of the district.
If you insist on only giving it to Johnny then we have to wonder is this really for the betterment of EE or you are allowing the devil to take hold of your pure heart and the horns are beginning to show and expose you as just a very spiteful man.
Johnny, you are young and I believe you have good intentions and I know you love your district and your fellow East Enders but think long and hard who you are doing business with. I know you just want what is best for EE and you are just grateful for the funds but these are not just funds, this is the ransom being paid for your future loyalty.
You take money from this money now before the election and you will destroy your reputation with the EE people. Your father was an honest politician and he did many good things for us East Enders. DO NOT disgrace his legacy or name.
Sometimes we think things are golden opportunities, glittering in the sun only to later discover it was only some broken bits of glass. Be afraid of any deals with this man, be very afraid.
What a brilliant Move Mac…if you can’t beat um in East End…support someone with the same last name to confuse voters at the poles..LMAO…….Arden, I thinks your slogan should be “VOTE FOR THE A AND NOT THE J!”.
Note: I think East Enders are a little smarter than that Mackeewa
Only 6 Seats are guranteed between all three islands. See in order
1. Mac- Loved, admired and respected by most blood line Caymanians, Investors and Status Holders. Knows how to plan and make BLOOD out of STONE in a short time.
2. Kurt- A man with Magnetic charisma that we all love. He knows how to warm us with that big smile and promises. We Caymanians love him.
3. Rolston- Very serious and do not give a hoot who likes what he says when he opens his mouth. Nevertheless, when he says something or promise you anything he delivers. We love that about him because he is reliable.
4. Eugene- Because he keeps his mouth shut and nobody knows about him, he appears like the cool guy.
5. Aldine- He means well and we all love him for that. Just that some of us do not support him enough to make his job easier.
6. Mr. Eden- We just cannot move that man. What a sweet ole soul.
Now, all six of you gentlemen who have already won your seats with us whether it is one-man vote or party vote, should stop fighting and unite for a better government. Quench the bad burning blood between yourselves and learn to respect and love each other. Try it because it can work.
You started off real bad with your #1 point – speak for West Bayers if you want but that statement dont apply to outside of the Republic, TRUST ME!
What has Arden done for EE lately?
You mean like stopping one rich man and one ignorant government from excavating and selling half the district?
To 7:41 what has Arden done for East End?, a heck of a lot more that you give him credit for. You all got more under both govts than North Side got, trust me, we are still begging but it goes to deaf ears. They say as long as Ezzard is in we wont get anything, and same thing under Edna, if you speak out you get your hands tied and what you say goes to deaf ears.
Ezzard & Arden is what this island need more of, true honest representatives.I can wait.
Somebody is very seriously desperate to get Arden off their royal a_ _. Stick like a tick Arden. Jook like a thorn, sir. Cayman is supporting you. And I am sure East End is too.
This sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face. You are getting some money to repair your district and jobs. Just because you do not like Dart and it is his money you buch of fools do not what the projects to get started and neither do you want the jobs. Well, go die of hunger. John, please get the projects started and employ only the WISE men from the East who will be able to feed their wives and children and keep the roofs over their heads.
Tell me something? Is there only men in EE? News Flash…there are just as much working women in that district and alot of them already hold decent and respectable jobs! You are the fool, dont you know that there are quite a few WISE women from the east that can read between the lines!
Here we clearly see that it is really the "ForParty Investment Alliance" – not the ForCayman Investment Alliance. Dart donates, which is nothing wrong to donate for a good cause; however, the motif of such donations is not to really help East End, but it is like what the article has said, "an unorthodox move that would by-pass the official PPM member of the Legislative Assembly for East End." Once John accepts the donation, he will say he is representing East End, but what if his UDP comrades, especially the Premier should disagree with the wishes of the East Enders to do their own thing, will John after taking the 200,000 thousand donation, stand up for them? You see, there is nothing wrong with donations, but you have to see through the donation, and ask yourself the question, "I am losing anything in return?" It may appear that you are not losing anything in return, but gaining parks and new facilities for your district, but what about the clear and unfiltered "representation of the people of your district?" What do they want? And will you stand for their cause against a growing and intruding government? Regards
you make sense here, but i disagree with your most recent comment
Four Community projects? Based on projects which have been priorities in various Districts over the past 12-16 years let me guess:
1. Another boat ramp, 2. Launching ramp, 3. Slanted concrete platform built into the sea to use to launch boats, 4. An area where boat owners may safely launch their boats.
Hmmm. I read this article and my first thought was that McKeeva is trying to screw Johnny over. Yes he "promises' money, but really, he should've given that money to Arden during his time in the house, so that Arden could have done something for East End. But since Arden is oppositon – Bush's UDP members were able to vote no to whatever his requests.
I am sorry, Johnny you had my vote from the start, but in order to keep it, I need you to disassoicate yourself from McKeeva and his UDP party. You are a man of honour, and that you were planning onrunning as an independent is what gave me hope. But Bush just screwed you over by making that speech last night. The part where he says that UDP is backing you….that means you arent independent anymore……. or at minimum it means that Bush feels that he can buy you out, and make u UDP member as he did with Dwayne Seymour and the others!
Johny, do East End proud and denounce your association with McKeeva. Also, don't accept those funds to build those projects. Or maybe accept the funds, and use them as they were intended, to help bail the East End people out of financial debts.
Don't get me wrong, the boxing and the gym are great ideas (it shoudl also include a public pool in my honest opinion), but don't take McKeeva's bait, as he is leading you to use money that was publicly assigne for mortgages, nOT community development. It will make you look bad.
People of East End, please don't fall for McKeeva's shit. I still feel he is trying to sabotage Johnny by associating hime with UDP. Johnny, seriously, please stand up and make it clear that you are not goign to be bought! Once you are in the house, then you can make changes. Have a lot more to say, but need to get ready to go to work.
Now come on, do you want Daddy to put him over his legs and give him a good spanking? He has no choice but to accept the "gift" or he will recieve a gift (a good hiding) from Daddy!
Absolutely disgraceful – but what wonderful fodder McKeeva provides for a UK TV series! The people will love it! It will make a lot of money! McKeeva has already written the script – just need to find the actor! Easy!
The script is being pitched as we speak. Obviously it is a comedy.
arden is a small minded backward nimby……but this has just guaranteed his re-election!
mckeeva can do nothing right…….
Why is John Jr getting such a bashing for this? As far as I can tell, all he is guilty of is asking the government for financial assistance in funding much needed community projects in East End from the public purse? Isn't this an upstanding community leader who is trying toimprove quality of life for the people and community whom he clearly cares about deeply? As long as there is complete transparency and the money is used as proposed , then why is John Jr at fault?
Did John JR ask for UDP support and backing or just assistance with these proposed community projects? As stressed by Mckeeva, John Jr is an independant candidate and I know that he only wants only the best for his district. I feel that Mckeeva has completely turned this around for some kind of personal gain and UDP vote mongering fiasco and I feel very sorry that John Jr has been pawned into this game.
John Jr, we need a response from you and quickly, let us know exactly where you stand and what your intentions are? Otherwise, from the comments I see, I fear most people will believe you have sold out!
Good luck to you John Jr as I strongly believe you only have the best intentions for your people!!!
Cayman continues to self destruct
cayman people let’s get over 50% of the one man one vote and then that would force the gov to make it law & shout down the free fridge, stove, sand man down
(keke) lmao. If you’ll want change now is the time, this is for you & your kids kids!!
Anon 21:25 if you dont now the full story then dont speak. You do not know of all the projects that Arden has presented to the current government for help but was turned down. Arden is an honest man and fights hard for his people but Big Mac is hell bent on ensuring that any thing he ask for is denied. I must say I am glad that he is giving it to Johnnie because asa huge following of Arden this is a win win situation for us. I guess you can figure that out without explantion.
let the games begin….sweeter as the days go by….
This not new Johnnie has always been UDP I am from East End and know much more than I can say in this forum, but I know for a fact in 2009 Johnnie had only some small signs because of a limited budget but a week before the election all of a sudden some big signs appeared in the district and what color were they?….so green with envy….any way Big Mac you should be warned to stay out of East End politics next time you come up here we will not be so polite.
People People….
Desperate times calls for desperate measures….
Let's look at it from where he sits…
Elections 2013
WB – He could feasibly loose one seat there if there are any WB people contending the NOT SO strong holds where his less than steller comrads will fight for. So that's say 3 in WB. We know he is trying to get 5 seats there so he can get at least 4 from WB.
GT – Elio is a weak link in the chain and if I am PPM I put either Kurt or Alden against him and give Mike a free ride so to speak but take Elio out. So They could be down one there also.
BT – This is a political disaster for UDP. They could loose both seats because of the Dump issue and Big Mac knows this.
This is what has lead us to this point and the two aspects of his new schemes. He needs 1 extra seat in WB so he has a chance of maintaining 4 people in WB with hopes of a 5th.
In BT I believe even he knows he threw his candidates to the wolves. They are now out on an Island the way Roy and Gilbert were after Ivan. So possibly loose 1 or both seats.
So to even things out he wants to attack in East End where he can kill several birds with one stone namely:
– Hush a big mouth who he can not stand.
– It's a 2 swing if he manages to remove Arden and get Johnny
– It's also payback for the referendum and a few other things that were between the two of them.
What we as a country need to do is simple. Keep the pressure up. The people of East End need to know the FACTS. They need to know its not that Arden did not try to get stuff its UDP would not give him. They also need to realise what this really is. It's a campaign injection aimed tAKE Johnny look good.
It's now time for Alden to stand up and be counted. You know Arden and Ezzard will not go quietly into that good night. Alden needs to grow a pair and for a moment put down the lawyer hat and pick up the one of OPPOSITION.
Giving money to people to support you in an election is not a crime, it is not un-ethical and for sure it has nothing to do with corruption! This what is called helping the people no more no less! $200,000 Johnee my, my, my, myeeeeeeeee!!! Let's go down under and up East!
Um, in any other advanced country (which Cayman, being a world-leading financial centre is supposed to be) this is indeed a crime, unethical and corrupt. Only in Cayman can such foolishness be passed off as "help".
Here I am, folks. A rose between two idiots.
I think you miss the whole point, the bad is not receiving monies and gifts for a good cause, but giving and receiving it for personal advantage and gain. John may receive the money and have good intentions for the people of East End, but in return, he has to give his soul to the party, which is not so much geared towards free speech and democracy in the Cayman Islands. He has to mold his mind and make the party lead his decision. He can not think for himself and follow his own conscience without Dart and the members of the party, saying, "see, look what we have done for you and your district." Anybody can donate to a minister for a good cause, but seeing the UDP/Dart machine, I am convince that it is all about their advantage and gain. It is a UDP/Dart monopoly that they are after. If they really loved East End, they would have given to John the thousands, expecting nothing in return, no allegiance, et cetera
Giving money that belongs in the government coffers could possibly be a crime. I do not believe that Dart said the monies he was giving as part of his buying the island was to go to UDP campaign funds.
I think this needs to be investigated to make sure there is no corruption.
The heathen believes that there is no God and that money can buy everything.
I have what I believe is sound advice for Mr.John McLean Jr, and it is the same message I gave to Joey Ebanks of North Side in 2009 when he was running against Mr. Ezzard Miller. I recognized that Ezzard was the right man of the hour for not only North Side but for the good of the country. It was Mr. Miller’s season. I proved to be right on….. I invite readers to go back and read my articles during 2009 elections campaign.
Mr. John McLean, Jr.
‘It’s not your turn, and it is not your time and it is definitely not your season.’ Do not allow anyone to purchase you with filthy lucre.
I have confidence that the people of East End are very happy with Mr. Arden McLean and that he is a man of integrity, and they trust him. If something is not broken why fix it?
Allow Mr. Arden McLean to continue to serve and execute the good representation that he has given to his people of East End. Mr. Arden McLean is still a young man and is contributing greatly to the good of not only East End but the entire country.
I hope the people of East End understands the validity of my words and that they send a clear message to Mr. McKeeva Bush that “Money Can Not Buy integrity and that money cannot buy the People of East End.
Mr. John McLean, Jr., you are still a young man and have a lot of time. Your day will come, at the right time and in your season….If you allow McKeeva Bush to manipulate you at this time in your life because you are young and vulnerable; beware…these are the age groups that are the target of political bullies and political predators……You will not be in a position to represent East End nor the people of Cayman as a young inexperienced rookie you will function as the 3 small fries Big Mac tagged in on his coat tail in 2009. You will be a “Yes Man” because you are young and inexperienced the premier being an ole boy will run circles around you. This is not what the people of East End needs. When Big Mac says jump you will say how high? allowing yourself to be dragged into the political race at this time will only be to your benefitin collecting $11-$12,000 dollars per month, and you Mr. John McLean, Jr. will not at all benefit the people of East End nor the people of the Cayman Islands. You will become another puppet on a string. At this time in Cayman’s history we need some real hard core representation from experienced mature men and women with some years under their belt to deal with the likes of McKeeva Bush. That’s not you Mr. John McLean, Jr.. Mr. Arden McLean fits that shoe and has worn it well… and your feet are just not big enough to fit into them as yet. Be encouraged, your time will come, nothing wrong with waiting your turn. But its not your time as yet, and it’s not your season
When it’s your season no one will pursue you with money it will happen naturally.
WAIT FOR YOUR TURN
Florence Goring-Nozza
The money donated by DART was specifically given for the mortgage program, not for political campaigning.
So when those who need it lose their homes will it be the PPM's faultt?
The audacity of this man and his cronies is truely mind boggling.
XXXXX
The bottom line is that the EE district will finally get something for the entire community! Long time coming … It is my understanding that John McLean Jr. along with 3 other people from East End asked the government to assist with 4 district based projects. The Premier indicated his UDP government would assist and utilize $250k from the funding Dart gave to benefit the community. What's wrong with that? Perhaps the real question should be why hasn't the current member from EE humbled himself on behalf of his constituents and do the same thing? His desire to fight the current government based on his partisan loyalties is misguided at best and detrimental to the residents in EE at worse. At the end of the day the people are the ones who will benefit from these much needed projects.
Nonsense. McKeeva has been deliberately withholding from EE despite the requests of the MLA so that he culd claim he did nothing to help his district and give funds to his political opponent.
Star, please dont let your ignorance shine through because of diehard love of Johnnie!
Arden has stated forever that he has repeatedly asked Government, and more in particular Julianna, for the funding and help to do EXACTLY what McKeewa is now financing Johnnie to do, so wake up out of your Johnnie dream before opening that useless hole below your nose!
Money can't buy everything especially INTEGRITY!
Anon 2125 quite a number of fans bring this forward as a political payoff.
Well I would ask the question is DART giving the money to the Cayman Islands people or to the UDP?
If it is to the people then I agree with your response to the reaction of the people. However I believe this goes on to indicate the Premeirs support for John McLean Jr. This means that DART is giving money to the Cayman Islands People and the Premeir is then saying that the UDP is financially supporting.
If that is the context then I think they are justified.
Crony Capitalism at its absolute worse!
Mr. Dart, any comment from you? Governor, do you even exist – or like Santa, the tooth fairy, and justice, are you just a figment of a naiive imagination?
Wow, everyone seems really quick to jump on John Mclean Jr., and bash him because the premier is willing to fund some initiatives in East End. We all can see when Bush's motivations lie, but John is a proud member on E.E. who has done a lot there over the years. I think it is a great idea to open a boxing club and gym there to give people a healthy outlet for their energies. Boxing promotes discipline and hard work. It's not just a bunch of tough guys punching each other in the face. We are all proud of Charles 'the killa', so perhaps there are many more young people who could make a name for themselves in that arena. And since East End may be the last tradional area on island, a craft market is a great idea (as long as those crafts are locally made).
I understand everyones frustration with Bush, but don't discredit a man because of who supports him. Give John a chance at the next election, and if you don't think he is the right person for the job, then don't vote for him. Simple as that.
We don't think he's the right person for the job. Simple as that.
OH…MY…GOD.
Well that got me to start filling out my electoral registration form. No thanks Mac, John. I don't need any of your/Dart money to help me make up my mind.
East Enders will remember what Arden does for them and that he does it legally, ethically and through the proper channels. They will not be bought by Mr. Dart's money.
Ok buster
I thought this money was for mortgages and for Government. I did not know it was for UDP Political campaign. WOW Mr. Dart, be careful that McKeeva don't bring down your empire with XXXXX. It not a matter of how, but when its going to happen. Like Dr. Frank said "Time longer than rope".
The mortgages were also a part of the UDP political campaign. Unfortunately the Governor appears to be asleep atthe wheel.
East Enders are not idiots and I think most of them would agree that Macdictator just destroyed any political aspirations John McLean Jnr. would have in the 2013 elections. His further destruction will come if he accepts Macdictators bait. Are you with me East End? Make no mistake Arden is YOUR man for 2013.
I sure hope you are right and that they will remember once the nice offers for appliances, paved drives ways and others will roll in.
Just when I thought he could stoop no lower, the premier once again manages to leave me in absolute awe – Unbelievable!!!!!
John Jr. unless you are intent on committing political suicide before you even launch your polotical career, I suggest you put the low-life in his place – don't prostitute yourself for him…….or Dart. Furthermore, given your claim of independence, I hope that you have signed and fully support the referendum!!! You as an aspiring politician can only benefit from it and it would be good for you to make a statement (1) renouncing any possible affiliation with the UDP (2) refusing to be bought by the premier and his supporters; and (3) confirming your status on the referendum issue. This is an opportune time for you to show your colours!!
Great work to Al, Marco, Sharon, Kent, Johann and all of you who are working so tirelessly for the greater good. Keep the pressure on Cayman!!! He's running scared and becoming even more careless; this is a clear indication that we're doing something right!
MR MCLEAN JR . LET ME TELL YOU THIS you have just lost five votes in my house. if you had stayed on your own and goty advise from your father (WHO I VOTED FOR) i would vopte for you again. but when you joined with DR BUSH FROM OLD BUSH you lost us. john jr i will say to you pay your out standing bills, it will come up in other people MEETINGS
Who do you think you are fooling, you never had any five votes in your house for John. Jr.'
If you was a true man of the soil you would be glad your district is getting assistance.
You should be honest with yourself and do some serious thinking. Sopport young John. I cannot believe that an EastEnder is saying this. It is time that you realize that the push for the Premiers job is what all this is about.
We need a Premier, who has ability, drive, conscience, apptitude (not attitude), can speak with expression and not get confused with pronunciation and grammar. It is an insult to the people of the Cayman Islands, to have such a person as PREMIER.
you just ruled out every current MLA!!
sell out…..
uncle tom…..
I was there last night and got to see the Premier firsthand doing what he does best and that's talking about the pass and what he's done and making a total fool of himself.
If anyone is going to have any shot of getting elected in East End I would highly advise them to consider seriously before expecting DART funds from the UDP and think of the implications that may have on any political future which they hope to have in East End.
The Majority of East Enders are not so easily blinded by these smoke screens and frauders behind Mckeeva
Charles Clifford is right when he says if we accept party politics in Cayman this is a very dangerous road down which we will take our country. This political victimization by McKeeva is what comes with party politics, particularly this model of party politics.
I say we reject both parties at the polls in 2013 !!! Lets send them both a very strong message Cayman !!!
Amen to that Wed, 02/29/2012 – 13:40. Not only did Charles Clifford say that, others long before him did and I agree 100%. What we have brewing here is a J'can style politricks and I know what that is like. Cayman does not need it and would be wise to vote independently and force these jokers to work with each other instead of hiding behind all of the party jargan. Just look what is happening to the meetings of the LA? They have them willy nilly now, when it suits them. We never know when meetings are held anymore. That didn't just happen under UDP either because the PPM jokers did the same thing. Cayman needs to get its political dignity back and drop the party politics all together. Reduce the number of highly paid politicians and pick sensible people who will work to earn their salay and to the benefit of the country. Just think. Other than Ezzard and Arden with their up front approach, how many of the other duly elected representatives to we hear from on a consistent basis? Not many. There are others that we do not seem to hear from at all!
Please Chuckie, stop posting on here.
McKeeva needs to call elections in May 2012 as I don't think the Dart money will hold out for campaigning until May 2013 at the rate that he is spending it.
In defense of Mac, he's been getting away with questionable deeds for so long that he thinks his behavior is acceptable. For this we can thank the UDP voters, police, judicial system, civil servants and vacationing governors, who all either embrace or turn a blind eye, to such behavior.
I support young John McLean, and I believe he would do well if elected. I also support the premier assisting him with getting things done in the district, because Arden McLean was not very wise by siding with Alden McLaughlin. Alden is only seeking the Premier's post, but people cannot see that. Hello.??
I don't support either John McLean Jr or Alden McLaughlin and would surely not support his appointment as Premier. That being said, I am sure he would be no worse than who fills it now. God help these islands with so few good options. Both these so called parties need to be disbanded and done away with. They are all jokers, one no better than the other.
OK, ok…everyone shush! Let me get this straight…
1) Arden is PPM.
2) He has no sway in the House as he is a minority.
3) He has a big mouth, challenges the UDP and stands up for his country and the rights of his people.
3) He is the sole representative for EE.
He gets nothing from the government for his district based on 3 of the 4 points above.
Meanwhile John is a failed political hopeful. Full stop. I have heard NOTHING from him since the 2009 election. In fact, not sure I heard anything from him before that. He is clearly living in his father's shadow. Or maybe trying to emerge from it…whatever. Not important.
NOW, here's where my head exploded when I read this article.
MacAttack is going to GIVE johnny-boy almost-a-quarter-of-a-million-dollars to build up EE….won't give it to Arden, the district's rightful representative as elected by the people….noooo, he's giving it to an unknown (of sorts) who will use it to prosper the district. This is all fine and well – – – except that the REAL REASON behind the generosity and seemingly philanthropic gesture is not really to help EE at all…it's to make L'il Johnny look big and smart in front of his district. Oh and make ol' Arden look useless and washed up.
THEN, we understand that the almost-a-quarter-of-a-million-dollars is coming from our friendly local developer Dart – – – ok not so local (has anyone actually seen him up close and personal?) and well, not really so friendly either (those DO NOT TRESPASS signs all over his properties and beaches were a little mean!) Developer, yes…he's developing land, liquor stores, hotels, beaches, clothing stores, the list goes on….
So here we have a private conglomerate freely giving his millions (you don't think that almost-a-quarter-of-a-million-dollars is all do ya!?) to our "clean hands and pure heart" government to fix our woes all in a swift signing of the cheque! Nevermind that this developer has bypassed our laws, encouraged the changes of further laws to accommodate his grandiose designs, funded many a politician's dream projects and ignored the cries of the simple people in the name of progress and advancement and of course, good ol' fashioned dirty GREED.
Bottom line: The $$ given to L'il Johnny is not from our coffers, has more strings attached than a Round mango and is intended to oil a wanna-be politician into office all in an effort to push a seasoned one out – – – that seasoned one being a right thorn in the backside of the UDP. Smoke and mirrors anyone?
When this country FINALLY (FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT's HOLY!) comes to terms with what corruption looks and smells like (sometimes it smells like almost-a-quarter-of-a-million-dollars!) then we will FINALLY advance toward a democratic society and appreciate those few people who are raising their voices against the unbelievable acts of a government gone down the rabbit hole into Wonderland.
In the meantime, I INSIST that the UDP remove the D from their name as Democracy has NOTHING to do with what they are doing.
I FURTHER insist that the U*P members who can, please unplug themselves from this machine of mass destruction, grow a pair, and disassociate themselves from the relationship to salvage what is left of their dignity and credibility.
And finally- to dear sweet JM Jr – sweetie – don't do this. We know you love your district. You're such a sweet boy. But the deal you sign with the devil will pull you into all depths of hell unimaginable. Run the race, yes. But do it the honest way. Do not BUY YOUR WAY INTO government. People do NOT respect that anymore. Those are the actions of an era that is fading. The people of Cayman AND EE are wiser and awakened from the old ways.
Tell the U*P thanks but no thanks.
Heaven help us – people of Cayman…the fire is getting hot. The campaigning has begun. The U*P are running scared and reverting to old faithful…the mighty dolla! Do not be fooled. Do not look them in the eye. For you will surely turn to stone!
One of the best comments I have read on CNS in a while. Very WELL SAID!
Power of the people please shut the hell up,Arden Mclean had his chance during PPM's control of government,nothing much done for East End while they were in power,please stay of the computer and find something to do!!
Uhhhhh, did ANYTHING in my monologue indicate any support for Arden WHATSOEVER?!? I think not! Nor did I profess support for the PPM…anywhere. In fact, I abhor the party system – greatly!
But thank you for reading and taking the time to comment. Clearly YOU have nothing better to do with YOUR time.
Please stay off the computer and find something to do.
Pork Barrel politics – Cayman style ! Bush should remember that whilst money may enable you to buy a betterclass of enemy, it can’t buy you friends. Meanwhile, what EXACTLY is McLean’s role in the context of the expression “project manage” – is he to be paid for the time he spends overseeing the various projects and, if so, by whom, or is his a completely voluntary contribution, given out of the goodness of his heart. If he endorses the belief that there is no such thing as bad publicity, Dart must be thrilled to get this “freebee”.
So McKeeva accuses Arden of "doing nothing for his district" and then proceeds to say that he would be giving John Jr. some $200,000 from the Dart donation for him to project manage a number of local community initiatives.
It should be obvious to everyone that Mckeeva as Premier who has not granted funds for Arden to do projects for his district but is instead by-passing him handing them over to his political rival in an effort to unseat Arden. This is old style politricks but I am confident that EEnders can see through it.
Shouldn't this recent proposal involving money to influence a candidate be investigated?
Doesn't it fit the corruption criteria? Comm. Baines, have you retired? I'm sure the little female cop that you are dragging through the courts for something menial, that case should be dropped and you pick up on some real corruption XXXXX
If you're not serious about anti-corruption Mr. Baines, just simply throw in the towel and confess, you're only bluffing and seeking recognition. We don't think you're serious. where's your press release on the Premier's investigation or have you trashed that too? And you want our respect? This is really trifling.
Speaking of corrupt influence in politics and the elections. Whatever happened to the allegations of undue influence during the last election? Wasnt it Franz who was in charge of the voting station where this was discovered? If so, what did he do about it? Or was that just allowed to float away like so many other things?Just askin!
So $200,000.00 per UDP candidate, 18 candidates, equals $3,600,000.00, although the Westbayers will probably get a couple of million more, from one donor alone to finance the election campaign. This could be one of the biggest economic booms ever to hit these islands, probably even bigger than what Ivan generated when all this dough gets in circulation. Where do one sign up to be a UDP candidate, I'm ready to run on a UDP ticket as I could use the cash now. What a shock they're in for, cash um out, eat um out, drink um out and vote um out.
Now you have Got to be kidding me?! Is for real???
Didn't I hear Mr. Arden on Talk Today just yesterday saying that he practically has to beg the Gov't for money to be able to do certain projects and is still getting no where, because they are telling him that they do not have the money to do it?? Projects such as street lights that the people of East End are asking for, then our all mighty Premier is just handing out money to this man, who is not even an elected member to campaing/ buy votes, because he want to get Arden out of the house.? Money from DART.
As a young Caymanian woman, I have no regret in saying that Mr. Mckeeva Bush, who claims to be a Christian man, and the UDP Gov't on a whole should not have the heart to sleep at night. To have the audacity, the nerve. What a bunch of pathetic souls that have lost any sense of integrity that they might have once had. I am just at a lost for words.
Everytime that man opens his mouth I always think that there is no way that I can possibly be any more surprised. After reading the stories and keeping up with the drama, I am so afraid for the future of my child and family.
And I will stand up and say, anywhere, without fear that if the people of West Bay, vote for Mckeeva again, they truly are as fool as Tom.
Johnny my friend if you know what is good and ethnical, please I'm begging you not to accept the 200,000 dollars from Bush and look at other means, along with the sitting MLA (put pride or differences aside) on ways to raise funds for your projects. You are young and have good intentions, but accepting this cash is not the way you should go about it. East Enders are no fool fool and doesn't lean to kindly to XXXXX (this is what it's looking like) and their memories aren't short either. If you accept this money, this will show the East Enders that you're not an independant candidate, but an UDP in disguise and that you had stuck your hands in the DARTS cookie jar. Once you or any other candidate does this, your chances of winning an election in that or any other district is small. You have started off on a wrong foot my friend and I'm seriously hoping you will re-consider your position for the sake of ever becoming an succesful candidate in any elections.
Hi is UDP just like his father and Truman.
Did Dart give the money to The Cayman Islands governemtn or to Mac? The police need to investigate the premier taking money for favors. If it is the governments money how can Mac had it out like this??????????
CNS: "The premier stated publicly that he would be giving the proposed candidate some $200,000 from the Dart donation…"
Something doesn't add up here. Why would the Premier "publicly" disclose where these funds are coming from, seeing that he is a man who likes to do his business behind the scenes? People need to think before reacting to such news. The Premier does things on one hand, but on the other hand, something else that we don't know about.
The answer is…Mac cannot just hand out GOVERNMENT money. However if a private individual puts money in a fund for "community projects' the government has all right to hand it to whoever they want for "community projects" and at their discretion- Private contributor does not even have to know about it.
Nothing illegal, just too bad for Johnny. He is dead in next elections. He got touched by McKeeva's magic wand. Fortunately so is Arden- He showed us his dirty campaign style and arrogance in responding to this one.
I must have missed something. What was "dirty" and "arrogant" about Arden's response? Arden takes no prisoners but I have never found him to be dirty.
I've got news for you if you think that he will not be re-elected.
This is XXXXX. Arden has been trying to get these projectsdone and government has ignored his requests..
Speaking of Dart, maybe he has made a deal with the him to put his retail stores on the pier. Nothing would surprise me.
Has honesty and integritity gone out the window.
Time for a quick change..
"The premier has THROWN HIS SUPPORT behind John McLean Jr as his candidate of choice for East End. Although McKeeva Bush said that McLean Jr… is NOT A MEMBER of the UDP, he emphatically backed him… The premier stated publicly that he would be GIVING the proposed candidate some $200,000 FROM THE DART DONATION."
WOW!!! HELLO!! Does anyone else see the dozens of things wrong with the above statement? The number of XXXX and idiotic actions and words in the above three sentences is mind-blowing. To address the most obvious andblatant XXXXX: UDP support an independent candidate? Then he's not really independent is he?! Give him part of the Dart donation – that shouldn't have been donated/XXXX in the first place. Second of all, it is not Mr. Bush's choice to give that 'donated' money away. Why doesn't he support McLean Jr from his own pocket since this is his own personal opinion? He certainly is not struggling for funds himself.
I hope East Enders are smarter than that, and I hope McLean Jr realizes the consequences of doing a deal with the devil – the strings attached run a very long way.
Bad move Mac, must have been a slip of the tongue.
Puts Dart in the middle of the political arena.
Surely the FCO must be laughing this morning.
WE have redefined XXXXX and Dart along with it.
Sad …
How can This man give away CI$ 200,000.00 of Government money to a candidate? This is truly proof that is is not the For Cayman Alliance but the For Mac Alliance. This is sinful and I would assume illegal. Some how we have to stop this man. This is as he would say, "foolishness"
What a blatent (mis)use of funds for political purposes. The message is clear: "support me and you will get funds". This is nothing more than buying loyalty.
Whatever happened to upstanding independent thinkers doing what is right for Cayman?
Tsk Tsk! McKeeva is using DART money to buy votes in East End. At bthe expense of the West Bay Road. People wake up!!!
The two-party system of UDP and PPM jokers! Since we officially started it after 2004, we have this load of crap going on in Cayman, and sorry to say it is our own people who are selling us out! Increased crime, increased unemployed, and yes… probable increased corruption!
The party system was started by the UDP in 2001 in order to make the 'coup' to seize power from Kurt Tibbetts successful.
"Probable"? Did You say "probable", Anonymous2? Surely you jest!
Who's in the running for Little Cayman?
I don't think that the present elected member from East End, Arden Mclean, would have had much of a challenge from John Mclean Jr or anyone else for his Legislative Assembly seat, but the announcement by the premier that he is supporting John Mclean Jr in the next general election is great news for Arden Mclean, because if John Mclean Jr did not have much of a chance (in my opinion) to remove Arden Mclean before he sure as hell has absolutely no chance in hell of removing him if he (John Mclean Jr) is associating with the premier (or is being supported by the premier). That is like jumping on a sinking ship! No, that would be like jumping on an already sunk ship.
Well kiss mi neck back…WTF?
XXXX
em betta check me wit deh cheque of new stove and tv set, cause me nah vote straight if he nah supply
Disgusting and despicable!
Well, the proof will be in the pudding so to speak. If Joh McLean junior has any ethics, morals and values, he will politely decline McKeeva's offer and show to the Island that he is truly independent and can't be bought.
If he accepts this offer, then I can only pray that Easter Enders are not fool enough to vote in a man who started his campaign in that manner because one can only imagine what he would be up to once elected!
Haha…..good luck trying to get a local politician to refuse the offer of cash. but then again that is the biggest problem with Cayman politics- a lack of ethics.
I Totally Agree.
Let’s be honest, anyone taking money or favours from big Mc is either a fool or bought, either way the people of thiese islands, are not stupid and we see how you are just destroying this paradise with greed…..be aware that what goes around eventually comes around
Is this John McLean Jr. the son of the same John McLean Sr. (along with Truman Bodden) that writes all those letters to the Compass about how incompetent the UDP Government is?
Politics do make strange bedfellows.
Even more concerning is the fact that the Premeir said that he is giving Mr McLean $200,000.00 of DARTS money to boost his campeign and election prospects.
Surely the FOR CAYMAN ALLIANCE is pulling their hair out this morning about this slip of the tongue by the Premier, who they are bankrolling for the next election.
This running off at the mouth has to be making DART nervous in light ig the investigation into the passing of money from DART to the government for their stated purposes that is being sought by the independant member Ezzard Miller.
XXX I am afraid that he will spend as much as necessary to see that McKeeva gets reelected, thereby preserving his agenda for the Cayman Islands.
I will leave you (and remind DART) with this old Caymanian saying "EAT THEM OUT, DRINK THEM OUT, THEN VOTE THEM OUT". be carefull that you are not wasting your money.
No, but it is the son of the John McLean Sr. (along with Truman Bodden) that writes all those letters to the Compass about how incompetent the PPM Government is.
…even though the UDP govt has been in power for the last 3 years and have made some royal screw ups.
You see John Sr. is miffed that it was Arden who unseated him in 2000, and Tru Tru is miffed that Kurt replaced him in GT. They were both fellow members of ExCo with McKeeva in 1992-1998 (when he was removed for the First Cayman Bank scandal).
SOS but I’m confused, was Truman and John Mc Lean,Sr. criticizing the UDP in all their letters to the press I witnessed them criticizing the PPM and bashing them to piecesfor mismanagement of the public purse!
Which UDP and which Truman and John McLean Sr. are you guys talking about. You seem to not be paying attention to what you are reading and by whom the articles are written.
Those two former politicians seem to have condoned anything and everything the UDP has been doing regardless of how ungodly or unscrupulous it is, do you have your sailors and your political parties mixed up? I think so. Truman and John are The Premier’s strongest allies and don’t you lose sight of that. The PPM is on their black list.
Come again!
Compass and CNS need to review those letters – too many thumbs up for something that could be a big mistake.
The former LOG, John McLean Sr.’s, friend… has an axe for the PPM since Kurt Tibbitts defeated him in 2000, he thought that was pretty much the end of this former LOG’s political career as he stood a great chance of becoming Cayman’s first Premier, that’s where he was headed, Kurt ruined this for him.
So go back and read before posting 129 thumbs up.
HA HA HA this is funny!!! Now tell me why our MLA's could not work together? So Bush is only going to give EE money if it is not Arden. But willing to give EE money to someone who is not even a MLA at this time, knowing that he will be an Independent if he gets in, just to turn around and say "Remember how you got here" when he needs support for his XXXX ways and ideas.
Honestly!!! Is there nothing that we can do to stop this blantant trickery and tomfoolery? The complete lack of ethics and the respect for protocol on behalf of the Premier of this Country is embarrassing and disgraceful!!!! I cannot believe that in this difficult economic climate these "boys" cannot muster up some PRIDE and start acting like gentlemen and do what's best for the Country over self and Party!!
I am telling you nothing is going to happen until the electorate unite and take this mess to the streets. Playing nice is simply not effective with our Premier!!!
I listened on Radio Cayman last night and bush and solomon are two of the most disgusting people I have ever come across. When God deals with them for trading with his name for Money sake they will know.
Desperation! What a mess!
To use funds of the Cayman Islands government to finance the political campaign of a wannabe politician seems like corruption to me.
There he goes again, throwing money around.
Com. Baines, when are you going to get to work and deal with some
real anti-corruption against Politicians?
The very suggestion that Mr. Bush mentions giving John McLean $200,000 to spend in East End suggests that he is desperate to remain premier with John McLean’s support.
The East Enders are not for sale and Big Mac will find that out.
Arden are you there?
This is not good. this UDP government thinks it can buy even salvation with Dart’s money.
Lets fix them real good at the polls in 2013.
Don't worry, the East Enders remember that Mac did NOTHING for them post-Ivan.
XXXX Bush is back peddling because the majority of the country want 'their" country back. Ardem McLean wants change so Bush has to oppose him with old style politricks.
Support the petiton and the referredum. Bush states he has the voters support and leading the country in the right direction. Then let everyone have their vote. He would surely be re elected. Fellow voters the UDP are scrambling because they know they do not represent the majority.
Lachlan MacTavish
PS….what kind of system do we have? The Dart money is the peoples and countries money. One man simply decides to hand over your money, $200,000.00, to a non elected member of a district for so called district improvements. This is foolish. IF a majority of elected members decided that funds should be distributed to any or all districts then those funds should go through proper channels and the elected district representatives. voters, we have a system out fo control.
Lachlan MacTavish
District improvements my a–, those are businesses. Governor, FCO, somebody wake up. That is government's money not McKeeva's money.
Especially when the DART funds in question have been donated and earmarked specifically for peoples mortgages.
Guess what guys,
Truman Bodden is thinking about getting into the political race in this upcoming election.
If he does, McKeeva Bush will NOT be the next premier.
I think the UK is backing Truman Bodden.
The country is in a mess, Truman is not a money shark so we can work with him.
What the *##%!
Can we say Turks and Caicos?????
I recall John attempting to debate the constitution during the last election only to admit that he had not yet read it. If that is any indication of how seriously he take his responsibilities then he is mistaken that East Enders will elect him. If the people of East End want to move backwards in time 10 years, go ahead and elect John. Arden loves his district and will die fighting for his people, to change him now would be a disaster. The UDP believe that throwing $200,000 at John will make him attractive to the East End voters. I would like to see an account of where that money will be spent and an account when it is all spent.
This is typical UDP manipulation, they think that throwing $200,000 at this man will convince the public that he is the best choice. Why not simply support Ardens initiatives throught he proper channels and cut out the foolishness.
Mac needs to remember one thing! East Enders like me are not easily fooled.
Well that was the death knell for young, naive Johnny McLean. He is obviously UDP.
lol… for the Love of Money is the root of all evil! John, money can do lots things for you and East End. It is very tempting not to bite the Dart bait. But once you do, bear in mind, you will be obliged to Dart and not the people of East End. Please, don't sell out yourself for the love of money … follow your father's footsteps.
Unbelievable. Just another way of using the public's money to buy votes – this time to unseat an opponent. How disgusting! Are there really no laws in Cayman to stop this man spending public money any damn way he likes?
Boxing, what a ridiculous suggestion. So these kids can beat seven shades out of each other and compete forthe most tattooed torso as they emulate their role models.
Please, can you not find more worthwhile pursuits for our youngsters like agriculture, alternative energy, further education?
As for McKeeva waving the cash around, if this man is allowed within 100 miles of a ballot paper in 2013, then I can safely say that this country has lost its soul.
Boxing? not my kid!
I'm quite happy with my childeating chicken tenders at every meal, and playing Grand Theft Auto on x-box until he is old enough to start acting out the game in real life.
That is old news. McKeeva was supporting him in the 2009 elections too. EE people were not fooled, so he is now brought it out of the closet. There is no such thing as an independent candidate supported by McKeeva. If you are supported by him then he knows that he can count on your support if elected, i.e. you are a UDP candidate. We do not need any more UDP puppets.