30% duty for GT dump
(CNS): Government would need to raise an additional $18-23 million to deal with the current landfill at the George Town location, Mark Scotland has claimed. The minister for health told his constituents in Bodden Town that to get that cash government would have to raise duty to as much as 30% to pay for it but the proposal being considered by Dart would not cost the public purse anything. As a crowd of demonstrators chanted and pushed home their opposition to the plan to open a new waste-management facility in Midland Acres, Scotland said the facility would not be a dump and accused the demonstrators and opposition of misleading the people and offering no alternative solutions.
Shouting to be heard above the demonstrators at a government public meeting on Thursday evening in the district, despite having a microphone, Scotland said, “No one is moving any dump to Bodden Town.” He said that the type of facility being proposed would have no impact on the surrounding area and people would not be able to see it.
Scotland said that the government did not have the resources to implement the solution that had been put forward, referring to the Wheelabrator bid which had been selected by the Central Tenders Committee following a request for proposals at the end of 2010.
“While it could be argued that the solution put forward could solve the problem, it could cost you, the Caymanian people, substantially more money than the proposal we are now considering for the facility … I didn’t make that up,” he added as the demonstrators grew louder.
“The study that the PPM did for the landfill said we would need to raise the fees and taxes on our people by an additional $18-23 million a year to be able to operate that facility at the George Town dump … Instead of import duties being at 22% we would have to raise important duties to over 30%,” he added. Scotland said the capital costs to tackle the dump at its current location would be over $100 million.
He said the public private partnership which was being proposed by the Dart group was a practical solution because it would not cost the people anything substantial. He said neither the PPM nor the current government could afford to do it without increasing fees on everyone. In the face of the chanting, he said the objectors had to stop misleading the public as the minister claimed the Dart proposal was not a ‘dump’ but a waste-management facility.
“Look at any urban city in the US today and see where the waste-management facilities are,” Scotland said as he suggested they were all near residential or commercial areas. “They have little impact on their surrounding areas.”
The minister said the new landfill would include recycling, composting, waste to energy and other methods. A technical review was currently being undertaken, which involved a wide range of government agencies, he revealed, including the National Roads and Water authorities, planning, the Department of Environmental Health, the Petroleum Inspectorate, fire service and the Department of Environment.
He said the terms of reference for the Environmental Impact assessment were now being finalized but there was much work to be done on both the technical as well as the policy side as laws will need to be changed.
Scotland accused the opposition of not having the political will or the resources to address the problem but claimed the UDP did have the political courage to do what is right for the whole country, as the protestors in his constituency continued to chant.
Both Scotland and Dwayne Seymour, the government legislative members for Bodden Town, face an uphill battle to persuade their constituents that opening a new landfill and waste-management facility in their district is a positive move.
While Scotland made it clear that government was pressing ahead with the proposal for the relocation as part of the ForCayman Alliance, Seymour, who acted as master of ceremonies for the meeting on Thursday, emphasised that nothing was finalized as he acknowledged that he had not said very much publicly about the proposal. “That does not mean it has my consent,” he said as he skirted around offering his full support to the project. Seymour told his constituents that he believed the UDP government would get to the right solution to address the landfill problem.
The current proposal forms part of a deal which government is negotiating with the Dart Group. The private sector investor has proposed giving government land in Midland Acres in exchange for the land at the current dump. Dart has proposed developing a new modern waste facility there and then handing over the running to government. It will then remediate the current landfill and cap the mound to create a more aesthetic appearance which the developer has said would then enable it to begin work on the major residential elements of Camana Bay.
Category: Politics
Mark, if this is the best you can come up with as a defence to your support of moving the dump to BT, then you need to hand in your badge, you are no longer fit to lead
And Jon Jon, quit riding the fence, what did you campaign on? Well, that's why we elected you. stick to it or get out.
I support anything the protestors and activists oppose.
good rule of thumb….
… if you are mindless McKeeva supporter.
That must have been a top of the line stainless fridge with all the bells and whistles.
30% duty increase? If the UDP Government says it I don't believe it! Lets have some verifiable figures from a reputable accounting firm. Bet that will make some UDPers "turn tail and run!"
When have we ever been able to have them produce independent "facts"?
If it's not a dump, it's a waste management facility… why don't we put it in West Bay ?
Exactly! What's wrong with a shiny new waste management facility right next to Camana Bay on the existing dumpsite. A great tourist attraction too as they are in other countries. Hell it even might bring some spin-off foot traffic into Camana Bay!
The proposed waste to energy plant can use the waste gases from the to be remediated dump. Not to mention the relandscaping of the existing dump can be designed so as to protect the facility from storm surge. Most of us have an idea what happened at the dump during Ivan.
I said it before, I'll say it again; if its right next to Camana Bay, Dart will be forced to make sure it is designed, operated and maintained like a "Waste Management Facility" not a another "Dump".
Where is the logic and reasoning in moving it and potentially (Likely) contaminating a pristine site?
UDP, you increased the cost of fuel, business licenses, work permit fees and stamp duty went up 2%… and you have the nerve to talk about what another government might have done? You increased cost of living and doing business more than any previous government.
UDP increased the cost of living in cayman? Does anyone know what causes high cost of living in a country? Anyone care to share?
Well increases in taxes on gasoline and diesel which is used for transportation is obviously inflationary. Increases in permit fees and business licences increase the cost of doing business which is passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices.
Here's good example of WTE cost…
http://no-incinerator.org/questions/incineration-costs.html
For everyone to read..
http://www.wickedlocal.com/northandover/news/x916853846/Wheelabrator-agrees-to-pay-7-5-million-to-resolve-multiple-environmental-violations#axzz1oxSMV9q2
The operator of three Massachusetts municipal waste incinerators has agreed to pay $7.5 million to resolve allegations that it emitted ash through holes in the roofs of two of its buildings, failed to properly treat and dispose of its ash, repeatedly dumped wastewater into a surrounding wetland, and failed to report a sudden release of hazardous material to the Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection (MassDEP).
Wheelabrator Saugus and Wheelabrator North Andover allegedly committed multiple violations of the Hazardous Waste Management Act by failing to properly treat and dispose of ash, and the Clean Water Act by failing to contain fugitive ash. Wheelabrator Millbury and Wheelabrator Saugus allegedly committed violations of the Clean Water Act and the Wetlands Protection Act by releasing ash contaminated water and ash sludge into waterways or wetlands.
Don't worry, Cayman will never have any adeqaute environmental legislation, so they won't break the law here.
I wish CNS would post the facts about the RFP's regarding th GT Dump for all to read….So everone can see how much or how free it will be…
CNS: It's all on the CTC website.
If its not a dump then just lets keep it in George Town!
Or we could build one on that new road Mr. Dart is building to West Bay.
I doubt anyone would protest him putting this on his land where that new road is going through.
Hands up all the protestors who paid their garbage fees in full and on time before they were scrapped.
Thought so.
I simply don't believe any number that this government comes up with any more.
Serious question – do they pull these numbers out of the air themselves or do they hire some crony to do it for them?
You wouldn't BELIEVE what they pay those cronies to make the figures support THEIR arguments.
At least this article starts to inject some reality into this issue. You are getting a private party to fix a problem that has existed for years only because governments (past and present) have not had the money or the political will to address themselves. The dump will only get worse and if CIG is forced to fix the issue it WILL require an injection of money from everyone who lives here. That injection will be in the form of higher duties or more likely direct income tax because CIG do not have any money growing trees in the backyard of the new building. That is reality. If you think you have issues with your CUC bills now wait until you have to face higher costs on a daily basis to pay for a dump.
Now would the general public (regardless of where they live) rather have a private party take care of this issue at no cost and know it will be done to the highest standards or pay for the remediation out of their own pocket (which really is only fair since it is our garbage) and hope that those in charge actually do it right? Seems a little too good to be true doesn’t it?
Don't you get it….Dart only plans to build the structure, they have no plans to run it. Gov't will still have to come up with the money to manage the facility. And if they don't have any funds now what do you think will happen in another 15 – 20 years when the facility will have been poorly run as a result of lack of funds. We will have another dump on our hands that will need to be taken care of. Only this time we could have a potentailly bigger problem with waste that has leaked into our wetlands and farmland. You think Mr. Dart is going to step in and solve that problem too?
Perhaps you should familiarise yourself with the RFP that 8 companies responded to and were presumably prepared to accept the terms that were outlined. Oh, except at least one, which came 7th on the list and didn't seek to address the items that the government was seeking to address… Clearly others were prepared to absorb this cost on behalf of the people of Cayman…
Are you serious, name one of these companies that was willing to absorb the cost of the fix the Garbage issues on behalf of the Caymanian people….Do you really belive anyoen is just going to come here and do it for free…
CNS says the Bodden Town MLA's "skirted" the issued and the Compass says they "danced" around the dump, but it looks to me like they are "limping away from it" like a bird pretending to have a broken wing to lead predators away from their young still in the nest and unable to fly. In this case, it is the few BT voters who still support them that they are trying to keep in a nest of some sort.
Why is Scotland making reference to a PPM study on what it would cost to operate the dump at the present site? The cost to operate the facility at the present site is contained in the bids received by the UDP Government on December 3, 2010. If someone can get answers using FOI we would know EXACTLY what it would cost to operate the facility, a figure that I am sure Scotland has already seen.
The cost to operate the dump may have gone up since the UDP Government awarded a contract to Wheelabrator Technologies on December 17, 2010 for Comprehensive Solid Waste Disposal Management and Waste-to-Energy Facility (CSWDM & WTEF), but that is only because McKeeva (with UDP puppets) decided to break the contract after it was awarded. Anyone see another lawsuit in this?
What we have here is one man doing exactly what he pleases, with support of EVERY member of the UDP, and the rest of us paying for it.
I am a Bodden Towner, and I say TAX THEIR ASS MARK. If they want the Dump to remain in George Town, Them raise Taxes, Obviously we need lots of money to keep it there so TAX them, take your licks and walk out. Leave PPM to have it all, because they will have to keep the Taxes on the people of join Dart and move the Dump. 6 of one and half dozen of the other. If they keep up the taxes they are going to be under fire, if the Join with dart to move the Dump they are going to be under fire, so pull a straw.
Surely you meant "TAX OUR ASS MARK"?
As has already been mentioned, I too fail to see the logic – practical or economic – behind uprooting and relocating a facility (and service) that is currently central to its most dependent areas to a location that is very much 'out of the way'.
That sounds like a perfect recipe for unknown complications going ahead;
Traffic, congestion, noise pollution, air pollution, industrialization of a residential area, increase of health and safety concerns in the area and on its adjoining roadways … but to name a few.
Furthermore, the last thing this island needs is a flirtation with the spread of major industrialization to the eastern districts.
Then again, this is Cayman … not much appears to make sense anymore.
(Is there any type of blueprint or plan in regards to future development in this country? No candidate will receive even a mere minute of consideration from me come 2013 without a convincing commitment to this all important issue. They can stuff their self-serving "God bless you's" right where the sun don't shine – yeah, I said it.)
* Regardless, I doubt much will come my way from God via these bunch of jokers.
When all is said and done it appears as if someone is quite the special and important individual.
Must be nice to be that somebody.
the present facility stinks and has to close
The future facility stinks and should never happen.
Commentof the week!
The present government stinks and should close too
Would you like cheese with that whine?
No thank you.
However a sensible reply would have been much appreciated.
Maybe next time eh?
But your moan was fairly devoid of sense, so I thought the response was perfectly pitched.
Mke up your mind – was it a whine or a moan?
How about we raise the money by NOT giving the developers with lots of money duty concessions every time they ask for it.
When will these clowns realize their job is to represent the people who elected them not the People with the big dollars. They have all learned well at Mac's heels.
You can start with the 6 million that Mr Ryan currently owes.
I really beliebe that some of these larger projects are getting away with murder so to speak. We are giving away too much for them.
wells said…its about time the nimby's start facing the cold hard facts…..
Georgetown and West Bay are by far the two largest and most heavily populated districts in Cayman, and therefore generate by far the most garbage on this island. Just stop and consider what it will cost everyone in Cayman, and generations to come, to truck garbage from these districts all the way out to Bodden Town on a daily basis? Is Mr. Dart willing to consider this and offer compensation for this in order to have his own way? If it is in fact imperative to relocate the dump in order to please Mr Dart, there are certainly other places in both Georgetown and West Bay that a proper waste management facility can be built, but guess why THAT is not going to happen, folks. Very obviously Mark and Dwayne are more than prepared to lose THEIR seats in Government to keep someone else elected and to keep the most important man in Cayman happy. What a crying shame.
oh no!… a huge10-15 minute drive for the trucks!……talk about a small island mentality!
Try driving from West Bay to Bodden Town and see if you can do it in 10-15 minutes, idiot. The trucks will take much longer than you, and they will be doing this every single day for the rest of our lives and those of our children and grand and great grand children and at ours and their expense, just to make one rich man happy. Go figure.
oh no the children!!!!!..hahahaha…. always a sign that you have lost the argument….
oh no…the children…
Perhaps we should count the thumbs, my dear child?
More truck driving jobs…
For Jamaicans…
The rest of us are very clear on who THOSE belong to.
Now THAT'S what I call progress. From proud seamen to garbage truck drivers. Guess which nationality you'll have to fight for THOSE jobs, Caymanians? Could only happen under the UDP gowerment.
Cheap non-unionized merchant navy jobs are not really much better than grabage truck drivers in terms of social standing.
what about all of the great caymanian 'sea captains'????
You are an idiot. A master mariner of a large ocean going vessel ranks with the captain of a jumbo jet. They are well-paid and well-respected.
Idle tal;k, i drove from George Town to East End on Monday and I timed it, breaking no speed limits, I made it in 20 minutes.
A shorter, less congested route than West Bay to Bodden Town I would dare say but you should be starting to get the point of my idle talk. Perhaps the garbage trucks could manage it without killing someone on the road in fifty minutes driving within THEIR speed limits?
If you figure in paid man hours, gasoline, tyres, wear and tear on vehicles, and wear and tear on infrastructure it is certainly not inconcievable that this factor alone could easily cost the Cayman Islands upwards of $500.00 per day at the very minimum, or $180,000.00 per year, or 18 million over the next hundred years. A drop in the bucket for Mr. Dart, it's true, but it hardly does our already pathetic deficit position any good. Not that THAT matters at all to the UDP gowerment, or, indeed, to some of our idle talking public.
That makes about as much sense as the rest of your posts – none at all. In terms of road miles that distance is approximately 22 miles. For half of that distance the speed limit is 25-40 mph while the remaining 1/2 is 50 mph. Even assuming zero traffic and an average speed of 40 mph you will only travel 20 miles in 30 minutes.
Look at it another way, how many trucks do you need to pick up garbage in West Bay and truck it to George Town 2 times a week?. How many trucks will you need to take that same garbage to Midland acres 2 times a week? Considering GT is 6 miles away and Midaln Acres is 13 miles away.
I have heard about this thing called recycling. I did not care to start this maybe 5 or even 10 years ago because all was going so well for me in Cayman and making lots of money. Life was good and no worries with economy or world events. Same ole same ole…
"Scotland said the facility would not be a dump and accused the demonstrators and opposition of misleading the people and offering no alternative solutions'. How in the world can this man possibly SAY this? If the facility is not going to be a dump then why on earth can it not stay where it is? That is the 'alternative solution' that has been offered over and over and over. Obviously Mr. Scotland is not concerned about how much duties would have to be raised to build the facility in Bodden town or how much it will forever cost every person in Cayman to truck garbage to that location? Are these people ever going to listen to reason?
I find it interesting that the demonstrators are the ones apparently misleading others when clearly the politicians are the ones that have made statements that have proven to be categorically untrue. The RFP was put out by this current government. Are they trying to claim that they had not done their homework before this was issued? The tendering parties were requested to provide all of the elements that it would take to manage the dump (and hopefully make a profit for themselves and provide all of the infrastructure to work with CUC to provide the power from the waste and clean up the existing facility at the same time). There were no garbage fees for the companies tendering and Government made no effort to facilitate the clean up of years worth of mis-management. But now the amount it was going to cost the private companies to clean up the many years worth of outdated techniques is being said by Government to be something that they were going to need to have to raise. This is quite clearly not fact, as is clear to anyone who takes the time to read the RFP. This is political spin to get anyone who does not have the time or ability to read the facts to think about theirpocket and not what is best for the long term future of the country.
To Dart it's a dump, for us a facility. No one wants to live next to either, but one clearly has an advantage."ForCayman" Aliance indeed!