Close the GT dump
The ecologically detrimental, aesthetically offensive, air and water contaminating George Town landfill is not just a George Town or Dart issue but it is a major threat to the quality of life to the entire Cayman Islands. The site is not lined and the drain-offs are harmful to our health and the eco system and will have a long-term negative impact on our tourism product.
A sensible and sustainable solution is urgently needed in the interest of the future attractiveness of this country as a place to live, work and visit. The decades long debate, research and political rhetoric has to date failed to advance us any closer towards a solution. MLA for East End, Arden McLean, has repeatedly indicted the People Progressive Movement (of which he was the Minister with responsibility for the landfill) for its failure to deliver to the people of this country a workable solution to the George Town Landfill crisis.
With a national consensus and mandate on the urgency for a remedy to the dump, the United Democratic Party (UDP) has proposed closing the George Town landfill, remedial development of the existing site, and the development of a state-of-art refuse disposal site in the district of Bodden Town with no direct cost to the Cayman Islands coffers. The new site would be properly lined and embrace best practices of waste management and would not resemble the current site that was not afforded the conventional wisdom of current practices.
As a resident of George Town who drives past the landfill every day and witnesses the stench and unsightliness first hand, I welcome this proposal. However, I am amazed that the long awaited solution is being resisted by a segment of the society, including Mr Arden Mclean and the PPM. This resistance is obviously politically charged because there is no obvious intellectual rationale against having the commonlyaccepted threat of the George Town Landfill being remediated and the processing of the national refuse being moved to a less travelled and less densely inhabited area of the island. In the absence of logic in an argument, politics is normally endemic.
While all people should have a right to object and state their opinions on matters of national importance, it is wrong for the objectors of the new waste management facility to embark on a campaign of misinformation and scare-mongering in order to make their case. At a public meeting in Savannah, on Monday May 8, several preposterous statements were made by the PPM representative for Bodden Town and the leader of the Coalition to Keep Bodden Town Dump Free, where they claimed that people as far as 10 miles away from the new facility would get cancer and a litany of diseases that even they could not pronounce.
If their claims had any validity, the hospital would be packed with the hundreds of George Towners who have lived all of their lives within a three (3) mile radius of the current dump – and clearly it is not! Furthermore, by implication, these objectors are saying that it is perfectly acceptable for the residents of George Town and the entire western end of the Island to be adversely affected by the mismanaged waste for the entire island, if its effect (as they say) is felt as far as 10 miles away.
No individual is desirous of having the landfill in his or her “backyard” but it must be placed somewhere. George Town, the country’s capital, has hosted the garbage dump and its residents have suffered for decades. It is foolhardy to perpetually compound the problem by adding more garbage to it. It must be relocated, with all modern waste management expertise employed at the new site.
Accordingly, the residents of Bodden Town will not have a similar experience as those of George Town who suffered from aesthetic, air, water and noise pollution.
Category: Viewpoint
Lorna,
While I respect your right to an opinion, I would like to encourage you to stop drinking the Swanky. I fear the brownish color is not from the brown sugar.
Seriously, this is where your opinion derails. There is intellectual rationale to oppose the dump being moved to Bodden Town, which you have chosen to ignore. Those groups that you appear to distrust/dislike have listed numerous scientific and legal concerns, which you have not addressed, nor discredited.
Lorna, I was unaware you had a medical degree and/or had conduct valid research on this matter. Please advise us of the outcome of those findings.
If the new waste management plans are going to be so effective, will not cause illness and will not be unattractive or smelly, I can only say it is a gem! Then let’s leave it in GT as an example of how modern and effective we are, here in Cayman. Hiding that kind of modern and highly effective waste management plant in the bushes of BT would be a mistake. Don’t you think?
Move the dump to West Bay. Its where it belongs.
Speaking of land.
WHY DID THE PPM NOT PAY OUR POOR CAYMANIAN PEOPLE WHOSE LAND THEY CONFISCATED?
YOU GUYS HAVE A VERY SHORT MEMORY.
AKA: "Stuck on Stupid"
I agree with the two former mInisters letters on today:-
It is wrong for the PPM Minister or any other Minister to take peoples’ private land and not pay them for several years. Saying that the roads are needed is not good enough. Governments must respect private rights and pay its debts promptly.
Mr. Bodden and Mr. McLean you are absolutely right and can't be wrong.However Alden is a Festival celebrity and people are more interested in symbol over substance. It would shock me if they responded to this most important letter of caution in yeserday's compassand a slew of information you just provided. Lets see how smart they are.
We can not leave the country up to the younger wannabe legislators who have no experience. Some older heads need to get into the race and set things straight.
We have no choices but Mr. Truman Bodden and Mr. McKeeva Bush. Mr. Bodden is a conservative that is an asset to our country being a financial center of the world placing high. However we must realize that just because he's not charismatic does not mean that he does not have supporters because he does.
Mr. Truman Bodden should make a come back and we shall see if the people will chose the PPM big wasters and spenders or will we chose Mr. Truman Bodden – AKA as the Bill Clinton of the UK territories! the man who kept our public purse balanced and with millions of dollars in surplus. Its something to be proud of!
Are Caymaninas that smart to bring this man back or do they want to keep on fighting between the UDP and the PPM getting no where!
I can't remember any unemployment when Mr. Truman Bodden was leader of Govenment business it was unheard of! there was no such thing as over spending.
There was no such thing as borrowing!
Where has all our money gone?
Ask the PPM. Ask Alden and Kurt.
Is that what people want more of these two?
Or will be vote smart and put Mr. Truman Bodden back where he belongs?
LEADING THIS COUNTRY INTO financial victory once again!
Truman Bodden is responsible for the current state of education in the Cayman Islands. Now ask yourself if that is a good thing.
"It is wrong for the PPM Minister or any other Minister to take peoples’ private land and not pay them for several years".
It might have escaped your attention but the PPM has not been in power since 20 May, 2009 – three years ago. If compulsorily acquired land has still not been paid for and you wish to blame the politicians for it then it seems that the UDP has 3 years of blame.
Truman simply road the wave of these Islands economic prosperity. His last period in government (1992-2000) fell exactly between the recessions of 1991 and 2001. It was Cayman's heyday. Low unemployment was not due to him. Budget surpluses reflected increasing govt. revenues and a complete failure to invest in needed infrastructure that led to the overspending in 2006-2008. He failed to address the pressing social problems declaring that wedid not have any gangs in schools. Today we have murderous adult gangs destroying the fabric of this country as a result. He was also very backward with his thinking vis-a-vis the UK. We do not need any recycled politicians looking to reclaim their place at the trough. We need young, bright thinkers with fresh ideas and a new approach.
If Truman wants to be returned to govt. he should not be wasting his time criticising a former govt. which has been out of power for 3 years and instead comment on the performance of this govt. and its scandals and tell us why he would do a better job. But we understand that political favours have to be repaid and so we won't hear that any time soon.
Let me get this straight now Mr. Anon[sense] Wed, 05/16/2012 – 11:13.
You are telling me that we have just two choices! And those are either Mr. Truman Bodden or Mr. Bush. And you go on to say that when Mr. Bodden was leader of Govt. and that he kept our public purse balanced, and that we had a surplus of millions of dollars. This I will agree with, but it had a lot more to do with the then financial secretary and people like Mr. Benson Ebanks & others being people of frugality,not just Mr. Bodden. The financial position we now find ourselves started with the Boswain Beach project in the late 1990s prior to that we were still in good financial standing.
We were then under the leadership of one and the same Mr. Bush you mentioned in your naming of those whom you would prefer to see lead us today. For your information mr. Bush is the LEADER and it is thru him and those hangers-on, that he surrounded himself with, that started us on this financial suicidal plunge, then along came Mr. Alden McLaughlin with the most expensive schools in this hemisphere.
Let's give you a simple chronology of the wastage of funds during the construction of and even to the present-day operation of the Turtle Farm [Boswain Beach].
1. Initial cost estimate $24,000,000.00 final cost $68,000,000.00 a cost over run of approximately 180% and it has been subsidized since it's opening to the tune of some $10,000,000.00 per annum. I guess you'll call that frugality. I call it waste. "See former auditor Dan Duget's report on this blog for more wastage under the present leader Mr. Bush"
Now in fairness we'll talk about Mr. Alden McLaughlins screw up with the school project. This too like Boswains Beach was going to be done no matter how much the people protested about the cost. Which was estimated at $50,000,000.00 per each of the three schools proposed! Again an outrageous amount for school buildings but when leaders become arrogant in their determination to do it their way, no matter who may try to point out the folly of such wasteful spending, they do it because it's their idea and NO ONE is going to change their mind.
Now back to the present Govt. and their Money Management Skills! I will not get into details of our present financial situation but will just mention some of the projects that are continuing to cost this Island and it's People outrageous amounts that we will never recoup in any way shape or form:
1- Schools another $300,000,000.00 [$600,000,000.00 total based on estimated cost of changes and pay-outs and pending law-suits etc.
2. Docking facilities If we count all the stops and starts the funds payed out to settle broken contracts etc. let's say another $3,000,000.00 forget about Chinese deal that if consummated will [not counting the add-ons and the change orders etc.] say another $400,000,000.00. "Here I'm being VERY generous". And on top of every- thing we may never own it for [50] fifty years.
3. Then there are the miniscule amounts like the $6,000,000.00 owing by one Mr. Ryan.
4. Remember we are already carrying a deficit of some $500,000,000.00. if all of these new proposals come to fruition within the next year combined with our present indebted- ness we are looking at somewhere in the vicinity of "READY" $2,000,000,000,.00
That's right "A TWO BILLION DOLLARS" deficit!
I could go on and on, but here I will think of the readers of this blog, not wanting to depress them. So I will end by saying this:
Forget about party politics and vote for people who you believe will look after the interests of all the people and not just the big "CAMPAIGN DONORS" or "HIM or HER-SELF
""Signup for the "ONE MAN ONE ONE VOTE" before leaving on vacation"
I think you mean debt is $500,000,000, not the deficit which is far lower, probably in the $20,000,000 range.
You may be right but who can say? Annual government revenue is $500,000,000. Somehow that's not enough.
Anon it is obvious that you are UDP.
On one hand we have the UDP who gave away all those statuses in such an unprofessional manner. Lets get it straight I have no problem with statuses being given away but they opened the gate and everyone game in. The people of this country held them accountable for it. They voted them out. Now before you go and ask PPM followers to remember please do the same.
Now do I believe that the PPM is the answer. Lets just say we all better hope that they learnt their lesson the first time around. The premeir has made them look like amteurs in politics. Gentlemen if you have not figured it out yet, you are playing in his yard now.
Truman Bodden was a Minister of Education, ask the question? How many scholarships were given to the less fortunate during his tenure????? Let him stay in moth balls and let the progress continue.
Ship it to the Brac where they dig big holes and send the aggreagte to Grand Caymen.
The Dump is a threat to one of the biggest sectors to our whole economy i.e. Tourism
So go figure the risks to the whole country if it is not dealt with.
there is a reason why Mt. trasmore is the biggest thing on Cayman.
there is a reason why it is right in the center of veiw as the cruise liners come in.
there is a reason why it just gets bigger every day without ANY real try at fixing it.
there is a reason that the Caymanian people are O-Tay with this.
there is a reason why Caymanians can not even let someone fix it for them.
Yeah – its all a conspiracy by the British Governement, the Chief of Police, dem Bloggers and dem pesky devil workshippers to stop things from going ahead…
blinking nuisance they are!
Just close it down and open in BT. BT has to make some contribution to the nation other than professional whingeing and self-pity.
Your professional whingeing and self pity is noted.
I resent your disrespect of Boddentown the historic capital of the Cayman Islands that have been disrespected for years with the marl trucks being allowed to drive through the district creating noise confusion and dust. Each marl truck should be forced to pay a fee to drive through the district. Ezzard could man a road block.
I thought the whole idea of the BT Bypass road was so the trucks would drive that way. They don't and they race through the main street where the houses are all so close to the road. It's pretty frightening really. Many children walk those streets too.
I absolutely agree with you about the dangers of these mad truck drivers on the main road, but then again, when you look at the state of the bypass – pitted with potholes and obviously neglected, perhaps this explains the truck drivers using the main road instead? Plus, as you have noted, they like to race through, so they prolly don't like the speed bumps on the bypass slowing them down either.
I always wonder why they build thier houses so close to the road??
"Professional whingeing"?? In Bodden Town? Hmmm…? Sounds kinda kinky. Ya know…I don't think I have had a good whinge in a long time. Maybe a trip to Bodden Town is in order. So you're saying there is lots of pretty intense whingeing going on there?
But, is it legal to go around whingeing in public in Cayman?
How about maundering?
Gee. If this catches on, Cayman will probably try to enact anti-whingeing and anti-maundering laws to ensure people don't go about whingeing and maundering among each other around polite company. Especially in Bodden Town, where apparently there are "professional" whingers. Wow! Sounds like a party to me! How much does one pay for a good whinge these days?
So, where is the logic in having two contaminated sites on island? Why not just do what needs to be done to the existing landfill and impliment a recycling facility at the same site? It would cost less in the long run I'd figure…
Anon 12:30
The logic is very simple The Government do not have the 100 million to spend on the existing dump. Mr. Dart is trying to negoaite a deal with you the people of the Grand Cayman to establish a new facility without the worry of us finding the 100 million dollars,
But all we worry about is what Mr. Dart's land will value after the deal is settled…how stupid is that? Mr. Dart will alway be a millionair, and people with your mentality will always be a dunse.
Dart is a billionaire because he is a vulture capitalist. Please look up that term.
Dart is a billionaire because he knows how to get things done efficiently and effectively.
Cayman is a third world banana republic wanna be where little is started and less is accomplished with an incredible amount of money spent(or something) because of incompetence. Please have someone look this up for you.
Switzerland is a third world country.
actually, he is a billionaire because his dad invented foam cups
what are foam cups?
FYI: I think they are used in the new biodegradable Wonder Bra.
Its that thing that you drink your idiotizer from every morning.
Now, now. No need to insult my intelligence and call me a 'dunse' as it were. Also, I never once said ANYTHING regarding the value of Dart's land as I could care less about the man and his money really. My issue was the environmental side. Where is the logic health and safety wise creating another hazardous site on the island that will probably end up looking like Mt. Trashmore version 2.0? Why are we instead creating another future problem and relying on someone else to 'solve' our problems for us? We live in a capitalist world and nothing is ever for free.
And I'm sorry. Whatever happened to 'you made your bed now lie in it'? The GOVERNMENT of Cayman created this mess and has wasted money over the past decades ignoring it when they should have fixed it. It should be up to the Government to organise the budget and finances of the country to allocate the necessary funds towards creating a solution. Pandering to your favourite rich millionaire who is giving us a 'deal' regardless of the health and safety risks as long as it doesn't affect him is a irresponsible and frankly stupid wayof running a country.
The dump is a hazardous, disgusting eyesore and needs to be dealt with in a manner that takes into account the future effects not just the present tense.
Frankly, people with YOUR mentality disgust me with your easy way out and lazy options. So what if Dart is offering to establish the place. What good is it if the long term affects of having 2 contaminated areas greatly outweigh the very short term results. This Government is too used to doing patch work when they should concentrate on fixing things.
Lastly, if you're going to insult me and other Caymanians of whatever origin who share my same views, learn to use correct spelling and grammar as it really doesn't help get your point across.
(100 million on a new facility?! What is made of? Marble?!)
And for now the dunse outnumber the logical in the Cayman voters gallery. So for now the logical wait. For the inevitable.
And there were other solutions that were focused on what CIG claimed they wanted – the dump mined or remediated at the current location and a private company taking on the costs and the risk. But somehow they got thrown by the wayside for a Dart solution. I wonder why that may have been?
So why didn't the Government take the equally "simple" options that beat Dart on the official tender process and also offered to fix the problem, in situe, which didn't involve the government spending the money? You can keep harping on with the same shit about government saving money but it doesn't alter the fact that other equally cheap and less inconvenient options were put on the table and accepted prior to Mr Bush deciding to dump the process and go with Dart, like he dumped GLF and went with CHEC and dumped two locally-operating banks in favour of the Cohen deal…
Wheelebrator was going to be paid..silly.
Dear 09:58,
Some spelling lessons!!
1- The correct spelling is: MILLIONAIRE not Millionair.
2- The correct spelling is: DUNCE not Dunse.
Why did you use two exclamation marks? Why did you use those colons? Why did you capitalise those words? Is it because you are not all you think you are?
Akording to my dictionarie "dunse" is the way a dunse spells dunse when speeking of other dunses. So maybe 9:58 was rite in the way he rote it.
and how much is Dart going to spend? better do some research as Govt is still going to be responsible for it
I am surprised that Dart would want to purchase the dump in George Town. Cayman, please be careful. If you lose this wealthy man who else would want to take on the dump issue and the garbage mountain? This could be your last chance to make things right with your waste management system, as recycling will be too costly, and excavating the mountain, very hazardous. I think UDP/Dart is doing the right thing. Cayman, the dump needs to be relocated.
If you are suprised it is because you do not realise that Mr. Dart's development Camana Bay is located right next to it and removing the dump from there will greatly improve the value of his property and the enjoyment of visitors to Camana Bay. In other words he doesn't want it in his backyard either but he came and found it there.
Personally I don't have any strong feelings about the issue.Just pointing out the facts.
The problem is that the dump is in all of our back yards… There are very few worse places on the island it could be situated in face
Anon 17: 39
You too are swaying away from the issue..the dump needs to be shut down. You like the rest are only looking at the greatly improved value of Camana bay property…so what? many things have been moved for development to take place. whats the XXXX problem with Mr. Dart doing it?and improving his property.
This man is only trying to compromise, so both sides can win. Cayaman gets a new waste facility, Dart takes over the toxic dump and sore eye from our touirist area, and do what ever he wants to do with it. Give it a break…my friend… stop the bull shit!
Fact: Caymanians made the dump what it is.
Fact: Caymanians can not fix it by themselves.
Fact: Caymanians don't want anyone else to fix it.
Conclusion: figure it out……….or not.
the UK will end up takeing responsibility for it.
Along with everything else.
Caymana Bay was built with a view of the dump. Didn't Dart see that when he started developing. He put his city next to our garbage facility and then complains. Where is the logic in that, XXXX
Only the intelligent can understand this……………Too bad.
The present situation with the dump is what happens when a purposeful ignoring of foresight is the result of greed induced over development at a pace which the needed infrastructure to accomadate this is only an afterthought to the gold rush mentality which is Cayman's recent history and the consequences of which can be seen in every single quadrant of our country, society and economy. That being said, we have to find and execute a viable solution to this problem for the good of this country.
To allow Dart or anyone else to simply move it because it now affects his "Dartville" is no solution at all and it proves the unsustainability of allowing one such as Kenneth Dart to buy such a monopoly of everything Caymanian. The dump as it sits needs to be properly remediated where it is first and foremost. Moving the dump, in the best of circumstances, to Bodden Town makes no sense logistically, environmentally, socially and it defies common sense.
Kenneth Dart now owns far too much of Cayman, wether it be land, business establishments or political influence. Those who have thrown in their lot with him have done no favours for this country, despite the well funded PR campaign which tries to say otherwise. The slice of Cayman's "economic pie" which Dart Inc. has bought out is far too large and it is a most unhealthy monopoly. That this correlates to a lack of Caymanian owned businesses is no great leap XXXX.
XXXXX If Kenneth Dart wants to move the dump because it is now an affront to his olfactory and visual senses then he can damn well pay for shipping it all offshore himself, including the biggest and most bilious amalgamation of gargabe in Cayman which is William McKeeva Bush.
The real and lasting solutions so direly needed in this country will not be found unless and until the manipulators, profiteers, monopolizers and political pimps are dealt with as they should be and permanently disallowed from doing further damage.
too much hatred in your blog to be considered worthy of reading.
Caymanians all. Look to the truth. Nothing will ever get done again in Grand Cayman other than the depleation of funds. No dump moved or fixed. No schools finished and used. No more problems solved until you solve your leadership problem. Which you can't solve. Complaining is your only weapon. Your shield is pride. Good luck.
IF Mt. Trashmore can be remediated, then why not do so? Why promise to remediate it AND then move it? There are too many variables hinged upon it being moved — trading this property for that property.
At the very least, separate the issues. You want to know if Dart Corp. has Cayman Islands best interests at heart? Fine. Treat all the issues separately, and watch the proposals fade. Many places in the U.S. that capped landfills and waste management facilities later on had negative consequences — often in the sub-cap methane buildup and ground/water remediation (RCRA and SARA superfund clean-ups in some cases).
If we have the technology and intelligence to build a "state-of-the-art waste management facility", then why in the name of God would we then move it to a residential area??? If we have the maturity to fix it, then fix it and quit using the dump as a political playing piece.
Can anyone enlighten me as to what the land size is at the current land fill and what is the size of the proposed land fill in Bodden Town? I am just interested to know because I do believe the dump needs to be left right where it is, close to where the majority of Cayman's waste is generated and I believe it CAN be done. Part of the land fill can be closed to facitlitate the construction of the new and improved waste management facility while the other part of the dump operates as usual. If land is needed maybe Dart could donate back some of his next door. The problem is that the sole reason for moving the dump anywhere else is only to appease the Dart family who own the property next to it which they knowingly purchased and they are the ones putting pressure for it to move. I fail to see how moving the dump can improve anything for anyone other than the Dart family and those they pay off to get what they want . Anyone with any other beliefs needs to come out from under the rock and see what is really going on here. Fix the problems of the dump at the dump …don't take the problems and dump them in Bodden Town…..signed……a George Towner
I don't care who it is that wants to move the landfill, it needs to be moved to a much less populated area for the benefits of all citizens (I mean all as the new landfill should/would be created from day 1 with up-to-date methods to severly limit pollution in all respects and other practical improvements). If anything, Dart is doing us all a favor and if you can't see that then you have blinders on. It is in the middle of the most densely populated area of the island and one of the first areas that visitors see… it seems so cut and dry easy to make this decision. Now what happens to that area after it has been moved is another story. There are countless examples from North America where old landfill sites have been turned into incredible nature areas with actual green-space which this island sorely lacks.
And I assume you are aware that most other countries would not dream of locating a dump (or "state of the art waste management facility" to a wetland area, because there is no guarantee that a liner will do its job on an ongoing basis?
The current site of the dump is in a wetland area! I'm not advocating environmental damage at all. Obviously move it somewhere that makes sense in all aspects but move it all the same.
Anon 13:47 I would encourage you to look at the zoning immediately around the proposed facility in Bodden Town. To your surprise you may realise the entire area is zoned residential. Noting the fast growth rate of the Bodden Town district it is conceivable that in a few short years there will be many residences in this area.
This is in contrast to the current location of our dump which is zoned commercial/heavy industrial. There are very few homes at all in the immediate vicinity. Remediation on the current site with an efficient sorting, recycling and incineration component appears to be the best option especially when taking the zoning and small number of area residences into account.
The program that you suggest for the current GT landfill came with a $100,000,000.00CI + price tag. How do you suggest we pay for this?
When the government put the landfill/ new state of the art waste management facility out to tender – 18 months / 2 years ago? – numerous bids were recieved from very reputable companies to clean up the current site and create the new facility on site and run it efficiently – at NO cost to the government.
And I have a pet unicorn I will sell you for a cool $750,000.
"…with an efficient sorting, recycling and incineration component…"
"efficient"??? "efficient"??? "efficient"???
A public service in Cayman run efficiently?????
Good luck.
Anon 17:32
You could be right, but you must also explain that Mr. Dart owns 400 acreas ajoining the said property.
And within that entire residential zoning, is the scott's quarry, and not too far is the Bodden's quarry, and not too far is the Saresh quarry. Now can you explain why these quarries were given the green light to blast dynamites in your back yards, and not one Bodden Towner said a word in regards to them opperating these quarrys in a residential zone. You bunch of hypocrites!
There are two nasty evils here. One is nasty politics. the other is Mr.Darts money.
Thou shall not covet thy neighbour's house, thy neighbour's wife, his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbour's.
I hear so much talk of what Dart will make from these deals, so what ? its his money he is putting on the line for you Caymanians. for over 30 years we have practically gave away 4 miles of our public beach property to a particular developer, whom in return made billions, I have never as much notice even one scholarship given bythis person. I have never heard of one Caymanian objecting to his making his billions.
Mr Dart, as a Caymanian, Im ashamed of the ignorance of some of my peopl. On my behalf… please accept my apology for these hypocrites.
I think you better check your facts. Plenty BTers complained, myself included, but as usual nobody could give a flying truck.
Yeah…Im ashamed of the ignorance of some of my peopl, too.
dart is offering a solution that cig cannot afford to they by themselves…..
typical cayman response…… talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth…….
this is the chance of generation to solve this problem but nimbysim will unfortunatly win out……
Dart is taking advantage 0f the poor economy to buy more and more of Cayman. This is not in our best interest long term. We should not sacrifice the future for a bit of instant gratification today.
Anon 18:39
Do you know that many great cities were build and developed by one multi millionair. what are you really scared of?
Mr Dart is not taking anything from you or myself. He is an invester, nothing more nothing less. if you can't understand this then something is difinately wrong with people like you.
Don't you ever take the time out to read and educate yourself. Are you one of those grape tree philosopher that talk shit all day and judge people.
The only person Dart is offering a solution to is himself and his own wealth. He wants the dump moved because of the dramatic increase in value and profits he will make as a result of having the land next to Camana Bay dump free, paired with the closure of the West Bay Road to make room for his grand hotel and tourists – $$$$$$ – that's all he's in it for – not for you, not for me, and certainly not ForCayman.
So you are saying that we shun all businessmen who are in business to make a profit? Gee…so the Fosters, Kirkconnell's, Merren's, and other successful businessmen should be out of the picture, huh?
The approach to the landfill must be comprehensive. We must change our lifestyle to reuse more, and implement a true recycling program. With the quantity of garbage being redused the impact on where ever the landfill is situated is not as has been the case of the current landfill on George Towm.
No one should be engaged in the arguement that the landfill should remain in the current location. In the most populated area of the island, at the entrance of our 7 mile beach, near the airport, visual from the crusie ships and a nuisance to the financial community as their views from the 5th floor offices are clear caribbean sea on one side and mount Trashmour on the other.
It must move from the current site and if the proper studies have been done and engineering measures employed to ensure minimal impact on the Bodden Town society, then lets get it moved and stop talking about it.
Why move it? the problem can be solved right where it is however no one is interested in that because it makes the most sense and would upset the plans of one developer. While i am not from Town it is unsightly and something has to be done but based on past proposals i am confident that we can find a solution for it at it's current location.
Here is a question, if the new site in bodden town will contain no waste and in fact recycle most of the garbage and separate out the organic material like what is being said then why can't that be done at the current facility?
Why move it? Maybe because the current landfill site is in the middle of the most populated and most visited part of the island… do you really need more of a reason than that?
So where do Bermuda have their refuse processing centre?
Bermuda- the 9th highest population density on the planet (3175 person per square mile)
The Cayman Islands – 58th on the list (549 persons per square mile)
What choice do they have?
Try again.
So Bermuda has thei dump in the middle of the mot populated parish, and it does not smell (that is not my experience, but it smells better than our dump) so why cant we have the same thing done at the GT land fill?
IIRC It's at the back of town in Hamilton, not far from the Governor's residence – and I don't ever remember it smelling like the GT dump
All the more reason why it should stay where it is then, instead of transporting trash from the most populated and most visited part of the island all the way East to the old capital, and then transporting everything that gets recycled all the way back to GT to be shipped out.
Bermuda use to have their dump in the back of the city, but thats now used ONLY for horticulture waste. They build an incinerator over ten years ago and now burn their trash and sell the energy to the local power company.
No matter the need (it will grow every day until..) no matter the consequences(even the most fool fool can see it) there is not the leadership to get er done on Cayman now and for the foreseable future. The culture here is all talk and no walk. Can't fight it to win. Its too big. Small changes are big victories here. Lots to do but no responsibility to do any of it. Cayman is a country where time is standing still which is part of its charm but there is a price must be paid in da end. For now be happy they are still picking up the trash.
So basically the Bodden Towners don't care if the George Towners and their children get cancer from this dump as long as it is not them and theirs. As far as I am concerned Bodden Town is already a dump. We the people of GT have been taking your trash for years with NO COMPLAINTS. It is time for you to reciprocate.
Just move it already and stop the shit.
My health and that of my children is of equal value to you and yours so try to find a better argument than that about 'unnah children" to hell with the children of Bodden Town since that is obviously how the Bodden Towners feel about the children of George Town. Remember GT and West Bay Rd. are the money makers in theseislands not BT and the dump has to go!!!!
Is this the manifesto of another want to be politician using the PINP (party in power) strategy?
I am 100% certain that Lorna's manifesto will be an impressive document when it is revealed. A lot of people are depending on this. Lorna is a champion for the people. You might know but there are many of us who have been helped by this lady while the politicians are simply spewing hot air. Just wait and see.
So you admit she is only doing this to get votes then?
A wise man once said that only a fool or a dead person can"t change their mind. Which one are you? Look at the evidence; not at who you may think is 'pushing' for the project. Ask yourself _ is there a problem with the current waste situation in Grand Cayman? Well, is there? Now, what are the proposed solutions and what are the chances of them moving forward? Will we/the Island be better off if we do nothing?
I do not believe I really need to say too much about this post other than:
1) Last name = BUSH = Heavy Coolaid drinker
2) Never trust someone who says "I am not for….." but then proceeds to preech on their behalf without one negative comment about them. Basically if you don't get it Lorna "You are".
3) Anyone who sees the dump issue as good to move to BT is basically brain dead or getting something in the deal.
The GT dump needs to be resolved wjere it is. No lining is going to prevent the material from seeping into the ground. In fact EVERYTHING they are proposing for the BT Landfill can be done at the GT site. Why would you move your dump away from its major source.
So in short lets sum this up:
1) No gains achieved by move as everything that can be done in BT can be done in GT.
2) Dumps greatest source comes from GT to WB. Moving it to BT would be moving it away from its source causing:
a) Increased cost to maintain as trucks would have to travel greatly increased distances to the DUMP.
b) Increased cost of infrastructure as increased trucking would have an adverse affect on roads to outer districts.
c) Increased RISK of accidents as trucks streaming up and down the BT roads thru heavy residentual neighbourhoods.
d) Increased RISK in DAMAGE to the environment as area designated is a sanctuary and delicate eco-system.
3) No real proof of change. Dart is turning the LANDFILL or DUMP if you will over to the same people who messed up the previous one. What stops them from doing it again?
XXXX
Who is Lorna Bush? What is her profession? Is she related to McKeeva Bush? How? And wasn't she the one I saw beside Joe Imparato in East End when they had a public meeting on the East End Sea Port? XXXX
I think that was Pilar Bush you saw in EE. She also had dealings with the Premier that involved some land that the Auditor General found was sold for 3 times its value for a cruise ship port in WB.
Yes, just like all the other vastly over-valued land that successive governments for the last four decades have bought from their supporters to build roads, schools, a prison etc etc
Really? Can you give some examples and govts? The last I heard people were complaining that they had not yet been paid for land which was compulsorily acquired for roads under the PPM govt. and all of it was being done according to standard govt. valuations. I am not aware of the govt. having purchased other property for 3 times the value but may be you can enlighten us. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.
And which great PPM supporter purchased the old Red Bay Plaza where Durty Reid's was – just in time to seel it back to his Government (PPM) at a highly inflated rate? Then it was bulldozed for the East-West arterial!! It goes around; it comes around; heck I'm feeling dizzy.
Give us details, please. What was the govt. valuation versus the price paid?
She's from the Brac. I don't think she's related to Bush cause that's her married name. As far as I know, she's just a supporter.
There are a lot of words to this post and a number of subsections but the bottom line is that this person has no clue what is going on. Attacking the messenger is not the answer to a national problem. The GT site is not sustainable for the countrys needs into the future. What part of that don't you understand?
Recycling is the answer toxins will no be placed into the new site. Figure it out. Demand manitory recycling. Ask anyone in the USA or Canada how to recycle if you don't know. Paint, oil, toxins, batteries are not placed in the landfill. Glass, paper, plastic and aluminum are recycled. Do you follow any of this?
Fine, then recap, remediate and do your recycling in the current location. Moving the dump is insanity.
Again, everyone focusing on politics, personalities. Focus on the problem, the George Town "landfill" is a third world dump – no liner, uncontrolled fires, etc. The problem has been growing and festering for years while government dithered until they were broke leaving them few options. So what now? Does Government have money to remediate and build a state of art facility at the George Town site as one commenter recommends? Is there another offer being put forward by the private sector to fund a transition to first world waste management? What is the likelihood of Government being able to fund a solution in the next three five or ten years? What is the likelihood of another from the private sector offering to fund a solution? There is an offer on the table – consider it based on its merit and against the other option: continue doing things the same way and live with the consequences. Look at the offer (not who you think is pushing it or benefiting from it), consider the options, make a decision and move on.
There were MANY offers put foward by the private sector – almost a dozen i believe – to remedy the landfill on site and convert it to a profitable state of the art waste management facilty – which it NEVER will become under the proposed Dart solution which will only move the dump to BT then put in back in the hands of the government to run- which will meanall corners will be cut and it will never be efficient let alone profitable.
Put it back out to tender!!!
There were offers on the table in the respondents to the RFP, of which Dart was not the winning bidder, for a reason – because this was not the solution that government had requested. These respondents were being asked to provide the facility at no cost to government as a private solution.
A most sensible comment. Please stop the UDP-PPM rhetoric and for once, think about what is good for the country as a whole. 10 years from now, we will still be in this mess because of the small mindness of the PPM and their supporters.
First you say stop the UDP-PPM rhetoric then you go on to spout UDP rhetoric about small-mindedness of PPM supporters.
Sorry, can't help it; it's just a sorrowful fact. No go throw some red, white and blue paint all over yourselves!
No doubt the PPM supporters will say the same thing about what you call their rhetoric.
Lorna why is it that the present garbage disposal location can not be developed into a state-of-art refuse disposal site? Please give us an honest open mined opinion and stop using Mackeeva's very own words. I hope you can get a good UDP position.
Because Dart does not want it to be! Simple! Next question.
For once, try to get over this McKeeva-UDP vs Alden-PPM mindset and THINK. Offer some suggestions or something. The problem with the PPM and its supporters, they NEVER bring anything sensible to any argument. Just more politic rhetoric. Some of you are so badly affected by this syndrome, that you really are beginning to appear just downright foolhardy. Enough already. Let's DO SOMETHING Cayman!
Ammmmm – because the Government cannot afford it??
Yes, a good UDP position, and then move into Bodden Town near the Garbage Disposal, and tell the Bodden Towners how she likes it.
I think the landfill should be moved to Cayman Brac. With the barge having to make regular trips to the Brac it would reduce shipping charges and lower the cost of goods there. It would provide much needed work for heavy equipment owners on Cayman Brac, and many jobs for people in recycling. How does that sound Lorna? It's a little different when the backyard is the place you call home isn't it?
That is a brilliant idea and the perfect spot has already been identified! There is a huge crater on the bluff where Scotts quarried for years to get the material to make all the new Arden McLean's highways. So we already have the excavated site. which is well above sea level. Line it and use these new technology-driven ideas and we have a winner!
There is a lot of merit and job opportunitiesin this. Miss Julie please give some consideration to this proposal. It could help the Brac's economy greatly and help get that big hole filled in at the same time.
This country is its own greatest enemy. The government is broke and there is a solution to deal with an environmental time bomb that everyone with a modicum of cranial capacity has known for years and some people are looking at making a political career at killing the plan.
Instead of pushing for something positive for Boddentown such as mandatory recycling which would move the country forward these obstructionists simply want to kill the plan. The short sightedness and tribal regionalism will block required infastructure development and the damage is done.
I really thought the photo from the deck of the cruise ship of Mount Trashmore would shame or wake up the people of the Cayman Islands but apparently the infighting, back stabbing and denial are stronger than the reality of that photo.
Obviously the Boddentowners who are obstructing this plan are unfamiliar with the word compromise or cannot think beyond their district.
I guess the idea ,"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" does not exist in the Cayman Islands.
'there is a solution to deal with an environmental time bomb'
What.!? You mean dropping all of our toxic and other waste into the Central Mangrove Wetlands????
Great solution to the environmental time bomb.
I increasingly feel like I am living in an idiocracy!!
You really have no idea what those in the 1st world are doing with their waste do you? Toxins are not allowed in the landfill, plastic, glass, paper and aluminum are recycled. Paints , oil batteries are not allowed and are recycled separately. Wake up.
Aye, it's like the monkey said, "My people". You just can't please them.
One thing is clear though, the PPM has a lot more computers and people paid to sit there and blog all day long. While the PPM-ers are home blogging, the UDP-ers are out working for a living.
Maybe the UDP-ers have all jumped ship or maybe, just maybe they are out chasing behind the UDP croonies looking for hand-outs. I'm just saying, there is nothing to prove there are any UDP-ers left out there and if perhaps a handful does exist, there is nothing to prove that they are actually working!
Most UDP-ers cannot comprehend anything written, and without the green visual they have no clue as to whether or not they approve of anything. Hell, don't you remember that they didn't even know how to vote in the elections without the numbered flashcard.
The dump clearly has a detrimental effect on IQ if the author of this piece of horseshit UDP propaganda is anything to go by – those daily drives past the dump have taken their toll.
Dear Ms. Bush,
I feel I need to preface by stating that I am no supporter of any Party whatsoever for various reasons that could take up volumes, but considering what is transpiring in our island in recent times with our foolhardy Premier, I felt it was wise to attend last night’s meeting as well in Savannah called by the PPM to see what they propose to remedy this hapless situation that affects everyone residing in the Cayman Islands and those who invest here as well.
So I say to you, Gurl, boi you making sure the UDP see how their money is being spent eh! You is on the radio more often than Austin, Gilbert and Sterling, now on the blogs with your viewpoint obviously participating with the misinformation campaign you so long-windedly wrote about in your submission above. Laughable and yet extremely sad for you to say the least! A good example that you cannot rely on third Party information or hearsay because it could literally affect the rest of your life.
Nevertheless your “tinted” version of Mr. Gregg Anderson’s address is extremely misleading and absolutely incorrect. As a result, I for one have now genuinely lost the respect I had for you and your communication skills. Mr. Anderson said that countless surveys conducted in North America have concluded that on average, odors from any landfills, even those classified as modern facilities can be smelt up to 10 miles away. This is factual, just drive into town. Furthermore, the proposed methods of disposing of new types of materials such as various new plastics and like “could” result in emitting carcinogens (cancer causing substances) into the atmosphere thus landing onto the surface and then into the water lens in this wetland area.
As a result why on earth expose the fastest growing housing district to such elements that “could” negatively affect our children in the new high and the two primary schools not to mention the immediate housing developments within this 10 mile catchment area. His rational was not unsound because he also said that their group’s concerns stem from the conclusions of these various studies that were conducted throughout North America stating that “no liners have been created thus far that is not known to leak or deteriorate.” So your leeching concern could be realized in Bodden Town as well.
In conclusion, he simply said, find the solution, from the six other companies that rated better than Dart in the Bid process to remedy the current problem and contain this harmful element to one area of Grand Cayman and not multiply it by taking it to Bodden Town! It is very sad that I would have to take time to correct misleading information from a well-spoken individual like you. I guess it just goes to show that power, pandering to one’s ego XXX can corrupt one’s judgment, especially to express it in written form in such a forum.
Thank you Tue, 05/08/2012 – 18:48 for so eloquently replying to this garbage written by Lorna Bush. It is sad when some of us stoop to such low levels for political play.
To Anon 00:56
And it is so sad when one stoops to snake level for political play, to brainwash their people. The dump needs to be shut down. lets stop fooling yourself and the blindsited, brainwashed people that differ.
As far as 1980, 32 years ago every man, woman and child in the Grand Cayman wanted this to happen. ( shut the dump down) companies came from all parts of the world offering the different Governments different proposals, which they failed to accept…maybe for the reason up untill today. we never had the money to do so. (one fifth or our budget)
Now Mr. Dart has come along, made a proposal to the Caymanian people to rectify the dump, with out costing us one fifth of our yearly budget. The political hopefuls see this as an opportunity to turn the hateful people of Cayman against Makeeva Bush ( the Cayman Primier) the leader of the UDP, the Government with the majority seats. They need a notion to remove him and take the helm next election so they can benifit from all this proposed development on the upswing. On the other side of of this, as you know how most Caymanians are, they envy their own people for what they gain in life. so one does not expect any different when it comes to Mr. Dart. and his money. especially that he is not from here. We suffer from a high level of Xenophobia ( hate expats) Lorna, thank you for that letter, it spells the truth. From a born Caymanian…
The day that you boys can get past the UDP/PPM thing and start to debate issues, we may perhaps begin to take you a bit more seriously. For God sake, you live in George Town too; don't you think we need a solution to the present landfill situation? Let's hear from you what you think the solution is. Anyway go right ahead painting your faces red, white and blue if that is what you think it takes to make a difference. Why don't you be the change that you would like to see – instead of continuing as the mouth peices of the UDP?
Agree with you Lorna. We should be thanking God that Dart owns the land next to it and has the deep pockets and personal interest in helping to solve this national disaster.
No!
Remediate and build "state of the art" facility at present site.
Or at the very least be real about the cost….include the needed infratructure (roads) cost needed to truck the majority of the islands refuse (from GT and WB) to BT as the current roads are not suitable for the inceased trucking.
The roads in George Town are not suitable either. What’s your point?
Just move it.
Err….the poster's point is clearly that most of the refuse is from West Bay and George Town so to truck all of that to Bodden Town will require huge costs in trucking and roads.
Lorna, why do you even pretend that you are not affiliated with the UDP? Would McKeeva really have put you on a talk show to spread govt. propaganda if he thought he did not have your full support? With him if you are not for him you are against him. As soon as he discovered that Frank was not singing note perfect from his hymn sheet he cancelled the show.
"MLA for East End, Arden McLean, has repeatedly indicted the People Progressive Movement (of which he was the Minister with responsibility for the landfill) for its failure to deliver to the people of this country a workable solution to the George Town Landfill crisis".
Explain that for me. How has Arden repeatedly indicted himself as the minister responsible?
If you want to declare your candidacy go ahead but please don't pretend that your comments are not "politically charged". If you offer yourself as an Independent candidate no one will be fooled.
Only the most uneducated of persons in Cayman believe that every issue is of political significance. Not on the kindest of mornings would I vote for a UDP candidate yet still I opine that Lorna’s point on this issue is indeed that to which common sense points.
"Only the most uneducated of persons in Cayman believe that every issue is of political significance".
Tell that to Lorna. She thinks the only reason there is opposition to putting the dump in BT is politics.
Grow up, both parties have done nothing for the dump, it was full pre Ivan in 2004, * years and 2 different parties ahve been in power and nothing done. Atleast now something is trying to be done. Simply the country cannot afford to process the current dump and need a solution for the future. Dart has offered a solution.
So waht is yor answer to the problem or is the only thing you care about is not in my back yard or not if the UDP are doing it