Payroll tax for expats only
(CNS): Full story — Foreign workers earning over $20,000 per year will be paying 10% tax on their earnings, a government official has confirmed. It is understood that, despite promises not to introduce direct taxation, rather than cutting operating expenses the premier is opting to make expatriate workers pay. Full details about the tax, which is being described as a "community enhancement fee" are expected later today. The premier made the surprise announcement to Cayman 27 on Wednesday morning amidst an island-wide power outage. Officials told CNS that the fee would be applied to the earnings of all private sector work permit holders who earn more than CI$20,000 but not expatriate civil servants.
Although revenue expectations have not yet been confirmed, government hopes to collect around $50 million for the public purse from the new tax, inside sources tell CNS. However, it is not yet clear how government proposes to collect the new revenue or how it will enforce payment.
The premier is expected to make an address to the nation on radio and TV on Wednesday evening to reveal his government's intention to introduce the tax in the forthcoming budget in order to balance the books.
In an early reaction to the announcement the opposition leader said he was not surprised that this had happened. He said that the premier's failure to meet any of the requirements set down by the UK in the three-year plan and, more recently, the fiscal agreement had seen the UK place a gun to the premier's head as they can no longer trust him to cut revenue because he has persistently promised but persistently failed to deliver.
"This adds to the increasing uncertainty and concern that has been part of Cayman for the last three years and is bound to lessen the attractiveness of this place to do business, work or live," Alden McLaughlin said. "We have been treated to all sorts of uncertainty from budget to budget, as well as the constant breaches of procedure and process, along with attacks on officials and allegations of corruption and police investigations. And now in these already difficult times the business community has this to face."
The PPM leader warned that this form of income tax would make Cayman unattractive, presenting the danger that the ex-pat community would shrink and undermine the revenue government was trying to collect.
"The Miller-Shaw report had strongly advised against taxation as it will make the Cayman Islands less competitive in what is already a difficult global situation," he said. "This is the thin end of the wedge. Who would want to come and live in Cayman now?" McLaughlin asked, predicting that Caymanians would be the target for the next round of direct taxation if there was a mass exodus of the country's high earning work permit holders.
The independent member for North side, Ezzard Miller, pointed out that the premier had just spent the last three years amending immigration laws to attract this type of person and now, in an ironic twist, he was about to drive them all away .
Miller also questioned government's hope of collecting $50 million and estimated that it would be lucky to collect $10 million. Furthermore, there would need to be a new system put in place in order to collect the money, which would likely cost government more than a $1m as there is no infrastructure to collect from people's earnings at present, he noted.
"This is going to be the nail in coffin of the economy. Many of the people he spent the last three years trying to attract, for whom he amended the immigration law over and over again, will be driven away and, given the existing cost of living in Cayman, it will make us completely uncompetitive," he added.
Suggesting that government would collect far less than it hoped to, he said this revenue would have been found far more easily through cutting expenditure, such as the $10 million Nation Building Fund.
Category: Politics
As a Caymanian with a knowledge of the history of these islands, I am greatly concerned at the Expatriate Tax Proposal, and I THERFORE CALL ON OUR LEADERS TO WITHDRAW THE SUGGESTION AND APOLOGIZE TO WORLD FOR EVER HAVING SUCH A THOUGHT.
News of the proposal has already been circulated around the world and if not quicly withdrawn will cause a total economic collapse of the Cayman Islands.
Until foreign investments came into the island, Grand Cayman had the slogan "The island that time forgot." Life was simple for those who remained on the islands and lived on meagre earnings, supplemented by less than sumptious amounts of money sent home by other family members who went abroad to seek a living. WE MUST THEREFORE AVOID THE SHOO-ING AWAY OF FOREIGN INVESTORS AND CONTINUE TO ENCOURAGE INVESTORS WHO COME TO OUR ISLANDS WITH VALUES THAT ARE COMPATABLE WITH OURS.
The Cayman Islands have no natural resources and no industries that can replace the foreign investments that have brought progress to our islands and employment opportunites for own people.
This proposal has put the future of the Cayman Islands in a most precarious position andI again beg our leaders to withraw it rapidly and to weigh seriously any other proposals that may be under consideration.
Burnard Tibbetts, MBE
Dear Cns and Anyone with sense,
Think of the people that fly the airlines, we currently are allowed to import a certain amount of goods without paying duties. I say we simply collect on everything and do awaywith the $350 (local) and $50 (foreign) import allowances and charge on everything. This way there would not be friends of customs officers going through or government members getting free rides. Search everyone and charge duty on everything and there will be a huge surplus.
Forward thinking.
In an economy which is already bad, how does our wonderful Govt. expect a civil servant to find around $1000 a month to pay for their family's health insurance? Hello there Mr. Premer, we are already suffering from your gas duty hikes – paying more and more every month for food. electricity, water, health care, etc. I have a good job and have had to cut down to the bare bones at the grocery store to make ends meet. Could you not phase this in over a period of time. Here's another thought – stop wasting our money. $71,000 for 2 daysi n Panama – that is more that some people have to live in a year. Your blatant waste of our money is absolutey disgraceful. Now you have added fuel to the expat vs Caymanian fire with blatant discrimination. How abotu MLA"s start the ball roling with a 30% payroll tax – just to show us how comitted you are – and stop double dipping. This is immoral and unethical.
Some of you on here making threats and statements about destroying Cayman and its future must really believe you are indispensable I would like to share something with you are not and just like every Caymanian living here you are going to die that is ultimate proof of just how indispensible we are. These statements and stances only stand to quantify your true intent or reasons for being here on this island and re enforces to the native population who feel threatened by your presence already that they have a right to be that way, which inturn produces resentment and anomosity towards yourselves. Cayman is unfortunately experiencing number changes some good and some bad unfortunately those incharge including or political and governing bodies are constantly meddling and tinkering and trying to influence some of these changes and outcomes to benefit themselves which is and will always be a big problem. We are also now paying a high price for some of our past successes and mistakes Please get grip people and try and have a positive discussion about the problem instead of assuming this very hostile and aggressive posture towards Cayman. Simply principal two clenched fist cannot shake hands and problems are those things we see when we take our eyes off the goal. Tell our politicians and governing power to stop playing games with our future and those of our children by working together not fighting against each other. Homey don't play that game!!!!
Cayma will forever be in hell. Cayman will forever be on a sinking ship unless McKeeva is out of power for good. There is no one who can run this country as we can cleary see.
There needs to be a UK take over. Hopefully it's coming soon.
Mac is pushing this island off the edge.
I hope everyone can see and everyone understands that he is starting with expats.. but that's not going to be enough money to help Cayman out of the hole McKeeva's mistakes put us in. Therefore, Caymanians are next. The island is going to go livid. It's going and already starting to be total chaos. It's going to be unbearable. Expats will leave and expats will stop coming, Caymanians have too much pride and no sense, but think about it Caymanians… YOU NEED the expats. You'll be crying for them when they are gone. Tourism will go down because of all the bad publicity and nastiness that goes down here. I hope everyone is prepared, the worse has yet to come.
XXXXXXX
UK TAKE OVER. WE NEED YOU.
For the record, I am a born Caymanian. I'm away getting my degree because I'm one of the few Caymanians that got off their asses and are thriving to actually become something. I am embarrassed that this is the country and I was born and raised in.
The President of the United States says we are a tax haven. Let's not make President Obama a liar!
Mr. Premier keep the "community enhancement fee" that is not taxes it is simply a fee to fund the upkeep of our community. We have absolutely not direct taxes. We have your back Mr. Premier keep on the "community enhancement fee" we do not have taxes this is just a fee that one must pay. This is the best move that you have done since the 80s Mr. Premier we support you.
"Taxation without representation is tyranny" – James Otis
Remember this Cayman, taxation, once installed, only goes one way: Up. Likewise, government spending (and debt) only goes one way: Up. If you want proof, consider all the countries in the developed world.
I assure you now, remember this, within the next decade this tax will be rolled out to all; Caymanians and Expats alike. Within the next 20 years, the 10% will no longer be 10%.
"Dance with the Devil, the Devil don't change, the Devil changes you"
Yawnnn!!! Go … stay … just make up your minds and do it. Whether this goes through or not it's good to know we have a fair amount of leeches and it'll only take the threat of 10% of your income (which your employer will probably pay anyway) to send you packing. Well I say BE GONE with you. There won't be much of anything left here either way, given the rampage this tyrant is on.
You want to talk about leaches…. Do you know that more than 16 per cent of voters get handouts from Children and Family Services – even some people with new cars, nice homes and good jobs? Do you know that some Caymanians stopped making their mortgage payments just so they could get their hands on some of the free :Save the Mortgage" money McKeeva was handing out – which by the way is exactly the kind of Caymanian leeching that this expat tax is expected to fund? Next time there's a hurricane threat, notice that there will be a line of of Caymanians to collect free plywood, even though they have storm shutters. Days later, this plywood will be sold to small Cayman contractors for a reduced rate – a nice little windfall for both parties. How many Caymanians ever pay their HSA bills? Maybe half, but I doubt it. The amount of leeching Caymanians do from the government is truly shameless It's part of the reason Cayman is in this mess. Then there's the biggest leech of them all, the Civil Service. Half of the people working in Civil Service are absolutely useless and can't even be bothered to answer the telephone on their desk. Yet, you're going to call expats leeches because they complain that only they will be taxed to fund Caymanian leeching from the Government, even though they can't enjoy most of the benefits of that tax money because it's reserved for Caymanian leeches. You are truly delusional. My only hope is that when crime gets out of control here because of the unprecedented coming economic storm and you head to the UK, Canada or the US for refuge, you are treated by their citizens as you treat others.
Leeches? This is the type of xenophobia that makes this country stink. This country was built on expat (especially Jamaican) blood,sweat and tears. It was rebuilt after Ivan on Jamaican blood, sweat, and tears. Without overseas input Cayman would still be a fishing village, and the only thing for you to do on a Saturday night would be to go to a tea dance and listen to Swankey. You bite the hand you feed out of, my friend.
And by the way, it's not the 10%, it's the discriminatory and undemocratic nature of this rediculous tax. But if it is introduced, it'll be the same old story — expats carrying the Cayman economy. Can you imagine the shift in the moral high ground? "Well, I'm an expat. I don't get healthcare. I don't get social services. I don't even get to vote. I have to pay privately for my child's education. And I pay income tax. You're a Caymanian and you contribute to the country how?"
This tax will be Bush's Waterloo.
Looks like UDP took a page out of the Obama campain's playbook by enciting class warefare…Smart political move to stay in power, but bad for Cayman's future.
Anyone know if Shetty's operation or its expat staff will be exempt from this new tax?
You can bet your bottom (tax) dollar that they will be…. otherwise they will not be coming here….. You can also bet your bottom dollarthat Dart will still get all HIS waivers and duty concessions for years to come. But we the fools will continue to pay for all them. Well, not this donkey-face fool. I will be out a here quicker than you can say "goodnight irene".
what/who is shetty?
(believe it when you see it !)
There will be more exemptions than my dog has ticks.
Fellow Caymanian and Expats….
Please let us all calm down and work together. I myself a Caymanian thinking with logic says to tax ex-pats is unfair. I also know the hardship as my wife is a Caymanian and has been discriminated in a deliberate attempt to keep her out of her field and thus far, have been sucessful. So I am suffering on 1 income as a civil servant with two children.
Expats, in some instances you have not done right by Caymanian by importing some very negative attitudes and self preservation in mind.
Caymanian, it is our country and we need to save it and their are many ways to do this. Our forefathers would be ashamed if we left our values and prinicples to bow to current angers.
We do need to come to the quick and full understand that they are needed for our betterment (expats).
Now, to change this we need to talk with our families in cool, calm voices and say listen….the issue with Cayman is that the Expats need to be regulated and that has to happen by us. No more boards filled with one caymanian puppet. We need a clean sweep. I have had the priviledge of working with our Caymanian student interns this summer and they are smart and able to do many jobs…make no mistake….they can survive in the real world.
So, we need to think of a way to get out this mess…..it is easy really, we have United Kingdom passports and that gives us a lot of advantages. Not many should be on CIG social services…this should fall back on Her Majesity Government…
We don't need UCCI…we can utilize the fine institutions in the United Kingdom to teach our students. Many of the formerly suffering Caymanians are now in the UK.
As far Cayman is concerned we need to seperate the wheat from the weeds. We need to provide jobs to our people yes and we need the Expats too as they bring certain talents.
At the end of the day this is our country but it is sometimes their companies that operate here. We need a balance but it is clear that we cannot have the current situation at immigration going on where nobody does anything and many of young capable Caymanians are out of work
Tax is not the solution…what is the solution is pushing some cost back to the UK…Like the cost of the Governor and his staff. Cayman for years has offered UK persons employment here so we need mutual benefit now. The UK must help us by taking the cost of education….We must help ourselves by not raising taxes and right sizing government.
God bless all the people of Cayman
Pure discrimination – but if you think that this is not carefully calculated to open the door to tax for all, you are wrong. Someone will challenge this on some ground or other and it will eventually mean tax for all of us. If Govt. would only stop wasting our money, they would not need so much. Their reckless spending verges on a criminal act.
As just confirmed, the tax is also aimed at those with PR. Within its scope is ALL compensation including bonuses. Also confirmed by local and international lawyers, there were no red flags regarding breaches of human rights.
"Also confirmed by local and international lawyers"
fool……….. facts fool, facts..
*sighs* I'm away at University right now, and it looks like I'll be staying away. I am a born and raised Caymanian, but I no longer feel any ties to the country I grew up in. I will not be returning to work there once I have completed school. I have dual citizenship, so why should I? I can stay here where bills are cheaper and there are more things to do than get drunk and gossip about other people's business. Cayman is going under and there is nothing anyone can do to save it. The most anyone is going to do is come on CNS to whine and complain. Good luck to those staying on the sinking ship!
I as an expat, have been here and loved my time in Cayman truly. Its been hard sometimes feeling unwanted implicitly or explicitly, even though you personally have done nothing to create the anti-expat sentiment that slaps you in the face most of the time. The vitriol coming from both sides is so sad to see, because truly one could not exist without the other. If Cayman was not here, where would some of us work. And if Expats were not here, who the hell would they have to tax. Caymanians, what you need to understand is the TAX is not the issue, the issue is why not everyone. Why are Caymanians not being asked to help bailout their government. That is the issue.
You may not need expats, but you do need the expat companies to provide employment to local people. You do need the passive income generated from rental properties, you do need foreigners to fly on KX and indeed to help support this economy. All people are concerned with is the apparent unfairness of the proposed tax and all the animosity that has followed it has been awful to see! Whatever the intent the outcome can't be good!
So what is the point of the crazy import duty on things then? Isn't that where our revenue comes from… paying way too much for stuff that can be purchased much cheaper in the states?
You know, I jumped on the band wagon earlier, even though I dont care for the whole UDP, PPM foolishnes, but after reading 12 pages of comments, I have to say Im still on the band wagon about this.
Here me out for a secod and try to understand where I and alot f Caymanians are coming from:
While I agree with what most people have to say about having accountability and spending properly, the thing that echoed in posts the most was cutting the civil service, number quoted even went up to 50%. No one argued, that the tax should affect a higher salary bracket. No, just cut Caymanian Jobs period
While I agree that some weight lost is needed there, I can not believe the audacity of some expats. Everyone knows that the majority of CS is mostly Caymanians. There are locals that have been working there for more tha 30plus years that make less than 3k a month. That probably would never get another job nor a job that would pay them anything close tothat amount of money.. all due to education or other issues. hard working Locals non the less. To think that most expats would gladly see the CS number slashed for their 10% is mind blowing to me. You all would rather see Caymanians out on the street than give up 10% of your over inflated salaries, and you expect some of us locals to support you? Just like how you all have band together I will stick with my Caymanians people through thick and thin.
Quite a few of you expats have made your statements that we Caymanians are dumb, lazy and no good, and while I would agree that some do fit that bill, I would rather see them prosper more than any foreigner. You all need to realize that you are trying to ask Caymanians to pick you over their cousins, moms, dads, friends….FAMILY. Call me bias for all I care. We dont cut our families throats for strangers.
Let me say this last thing. When things are getting bad, most of you have already said, you are leaving, you have somewhere else to go and can reap the fruit of another country , CAyman will suffer without you. All I have is Cayman, no where else to go, good or bad, and I will pick my people over foreigners any day. It wasnt the idiot politians that made me feel this way, but actually seeing the comments finally put the nail in coffin for me. Something we caymanians felt, now to see it in words on CNS is a true revalation.
I wish you Expats the best, and whether or not this goes through,I will remid you that I and many more locals will have the words written here today etched in the back of our minds of what you Expats think about Caymanian people and how you all would waste us in the wind over your 10%.
Feel free to send your UK passport back
I get why you all are angry but the average Caymanian didn't gather together and plot against expats to promote this tax. In fact many caymanians are against the expat tax and are joining in the protest. So lets stop the blame game and the childish spats and threats. It's boring now. I think it's easy to spit hate back and forth but that makes no difference. We ALL still suffer. Caymanians are angry and dissatisfied with our government for good reason but it's no reason to hate or blame expats. Expats are angry at this new development and the animosity they feel they're receiving from locals. But this isn't an unique occurence, this kind of foreign vs. local animosity occurs all over the world. Not to Pollyanna the crap out this but i think we should make an effort to be kinder to one another. Get to know one another better. Make an actual effort. Most of our animosity comes from ignorance and ignorance comes from a lack of knowledge. So if we claim to be an educated generation we need to start acting like it and grow up! When you really get to know people your attitude and opinions change.
There is no comparison but yet i'll throw it in anyway: Before, and after, the American civil rights movement in the 60's there was a lot of hate, assumption, prejudice, etc but when people started to work on breaking down these walls attitudes changed. People who were different united with one other. I say, try to see the other side of things. Talk to people you wouldn't normally talk to. Get out of this small minded state that we have ALL places ourselves in.
More importantly, grow up…this isn't a the playgrounds.
CNS why has by far the most commented upon article ever in the history of this site and continuing hottest news story in the Cayman Islands been relegated to a second-tier headline halfway down the page? Don't be so shy – leave the tax issue near the top, because it's at the top of our minds.
Another smokescreen? Perhaps this is so ridiculous that Mac knows the FCO will not agree and so he will suggest introducing gambling without a referendum "because we don't have the time for one"?
As a Caymanian, I must say that I like expats. So, I believe that our expatriate friends should receive better hospitality from Caymanians. Are you CaymanKind?
Also, I hope that our expatriate friends see that there is real frustration amoung Caymanians who themselves are unfairly treated by 'some' expats.
The international press are starting to have some fun with this as well, though it's all BAD FOR CAYMAN:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2012/07/26/you-know-its-bad-when-the-cayman-islands-calls-for-income-taxes/
That's just great! Thanks Mac for making us look like the fool that you are.
BVI,
Here I come
…to pay payroll tax at the rate of 14%, 8% of which will come from me as the employee.
Smart move. Didn't you know that BVI also has payroll tax?
http://bvinews.com/bvi/too-many-graduates-unable-to-find-jobs-malone/
The Caymanians who actually have ambition and want to work and do something useful with their lives wouldn't agree to this movement if we were actually given first preference when it comes to jobs because most scenario's with jobs in Cayman goes a little like this —> READ BELOW<—
Caymanian Vs. Foreigner :
Both have the same qualifications.
Both would require the same training in order to complete employment with the company.
Caymanian needs no PERMIT.
Foreigner: Needs PERMIT TO WORK WHICH COST THE COMPANY MORE MONEY.
Outcome of who qualified for the job: Ding,Ding,Ding …. A Foreigner.
Wow is like I didn't see that coming *Sarcastically saying that*
So see I think each and everyone of you would also be fed up if this was happening in your own country. Oh wait! It's proberly the same reason you came to Cayman to beging with! Yeah man that's what it is! BIG MAC raise those permits up 110% if possible. They need go back home now they all been here too long now. We need to shine a little now.
Utter bullsh*t.
I've tried to hire locals a number of times and have never been able to find somebody qualified, never mind motivated to do the job.
Ask any employer on the island if they would take an expat over an identically qualified, motivated and applied Caymanian and the answer will be the same every-time. The Caymanian. And the reasons are obvious.
If you have issues with being overlooked or not employed maybe you should look at yourself. Employing anybody here is expensive and risky, hiring expats adds to the risk and expensive. So tell me, with those factors in mind, do you really think employers will hire an expat over a local?
I know a lot of great Caymanians in different industries here I would love to hire – smart, hardworking and good people. Expensive though.
If you work hard and lose the attitude you’ll go places.
Shine doing what? Basket weaving? Fishing? Going back to sea. You do realise that when expats leave they take the jobs with them, don't you. You noticedthat when some 5,000 expat workers left after the global financial crisis began, unemployment of Caymanians went up and not down, didn't you? You noticed that the real economic hardship of the global financial crisis in Cayman didn't start when it started for the rest of the region, but only after several thousand expats were made redundant or transferred to offices in less expensive jurisdictions, didn't you? You know that when expats leave, there will be thousands of empty apartments and hundreds of empty office and retail spaces, which will not only hurt Caymanian landlords, but local banks that hold the mortgages for those properties as well. And you do know that the local banks employ mostly Caymanians, right? And that when the local banks start losing money, they will make Caymanians redundant. Do you have even an inkling of the consequences of what you're suggesting. No, I thought now. You'll be shining all right.
Right On Brother!
The revolution starts here and there are those that will stand up and be counted.
Will there be free food?
to be told 100 times that you are not qualified (or overqualified), or some crap only to find out that some foreign hero with the same ole degree and experience (or none) got the job. time and time again. unna turn to wear these worn out shoes that a lot of caymanians have been wearing while kicking the can down the road.
Sweet Jesus.
All it takes to graduate from high school in the Cayman Islands is attendance.
Isn’t that more than apparent when reading some of these comments?
Imagine, the world is reading this nonsense.
Good grief.
Get your facts straight that has now changed. Hush ya mouth!!!
You conveniently forgot it is also Caymanian business owners and employees who are doing the hireing. Perhaps its the history of Caymanian work attitude versus expat (anyone but caymanain) that tips the scale? All you "poor me" Caymaaaanians have had a hundred years to shine. Still not shiny.
Come on guys. Maybe the government is planing on building us a lovely new community center.
I myself would gladly pay taxes, if, in return, the representation was given and the infrastructure was improved.
By my reckoning, the amount collected would be enough to build the oil refinery, the Special Economic zone (if they can be tempted back now) and the completion of the Christian Bell tower.
In fact, there would be enough cash left over to complete the bell tower with a gold bell complete with a massive golden bell end.
July 26th, 2012
DearMr.Bush,
We the people of your birth place the Cayman Islands, would like to give you a round of applause for this action taken howevereven though this is a start we would encourage you to please take into consideration the amount of unemployed Caymanians that are in Cayman today by you announcing this action maybe there will be more Caymanian faces in the working environment instead of seeing someone whom you don't know and doing a job that a Caymanian female/male could be employed and doing.
Although 10% is a start we would like you to turn it up a notch to about 55% this amount will ensure more jobs for the Caymanians out there who want to work but cannot get work because a foreigner is choosen over a Caymanian who would work twice as hard because they want to prove to who have this saying that goes " Caymanian children are lazy they believe in this intitlement" although some may have that way of thinking others don't so don't label us all as one because not all of us are lazy some of us came up very hard and want better in life … every human being is not the same; and altough you foreigners may not agree with what I have to say it's simply too bad; because if it was your homeland and others could come to your country and take up all the jobs,land and other beneficial things that are offered and when it comes down to you and yours … you and yours are always lefted behind then labeled as lazy. I'm pretty sure ya'll would feel a way about it and eventually become fed up with the way foreigners are being put before you in you're own country;and it's not fair for us who are decent Caymanians with a proper outlook on life and have goals we want to reach but cannot reach them do to finanicial issues which is caused because lack of employment.
Mr.Bush excellent start please don't stop here continue to increase the tax on permits this will be a good outcome for your people this is what makes the Caymanians sigh in relief this helps takes nots out of Caymanians foreheads wondering when there will be change.
Continue to make more beneficial changes for the Caymanians.
Right on Sibling!
This will tell them what they need to hear.
After all, what did the Expats ever do for us?
I have booked you in for a mental examination, I fear they may put you in a straight jacket friend!
So when expats leave and businesses shut down how exactly is that going to improve the prospects of unemployed Caymanians ?
So I guess by your comments you will be handing in your birthrighted UK passport too? Thought not….
You really don't have a clue, do you? When the cost of doing business goes up, the businesses move to where it is less expensive. In turn, that means LESS jobs for Caymanians and not more. Good luck to you finding a job then.
Dear Younia,
Your comments may be taken a little more seriously if you would proofread your post and correct the grammatical and spelling errors.
As Caymanians, we should be ashamed at the illiteracy inthese islands.
Dear Younia,
the precise reason why you don't get a job is your English, which appalling.The grammar and the spelling are horrific. Nothing to do with the fact that you are Caymanian, but in your case, your English would not be good enough to work in a law firm or a bank!!!!
Besides, it seems that a lot of Caymanians do take advantage of the benefits offered by the UK ( public health, unemplyoment benefits so forth and so on…)when they migrate there. So, you see, it's not all about the "foreigners" taking advantage of the sun and the sea , it's also about some Caymanians taking advantage of another country when they can too.
Remember wehn you point your finger t someone, there are 4 fingers pointing at you.
Peace and Love
No more comments
HAHAHA!
Thanks for the laugh.
You should have proofread your own post before criticizing someone else.
Good try, Forrest!
Let me explain something to you that OBVIOUSLY your young years do not grasp.
I AM A CAYMANIAN. I have lineage going back 7 plus generations.
I love the Cayman Islands with all my heart and soul and I stand by my beliefs there is NOTHING wrong with the 7 year rollover policy BUT…..This is the worst decision a politician has ever made in teh Cayman Islands. The ramiphications of this decision is HUGE. It is a COLOSAL F UP of EPIC PROPORTIONS.
I hear the idiots saying ohh leave and more will come. Really!!!??? Before yes. Rollover see ya but guess what someone right behind you because WHAT Great place to work and save money but guess what? NOT WITH THIS.
And I hear all the spin doctors on this about the %. Any which way you spin this UNLESS an employer pays your pension or payroll tax YOU the Employee is out 14.28%. Not 5% or any other % 14.28%. Because give 10% away does not equate to having 10% put into a savings for you or even 5%.
When you take out a pensions for 5% it's like you give yourself a 5% raise BUT you can not collect it until later in life. A Payroll tax is like giving it to a bumb on the street actually I take that back. In that scenario someone who needed it got it. Giving it to the government is more teh equivalent of flushing it down the toilet.
Taxes do not work for people who can manage money. It's like giving a gambler money or an alcoholic a beer. Give a man $50 and he spends $49.99 on stupidness he never used before he had the $50. Have you ever heard about being bgroke at a higher level?
Taxes are not the answer. Cutting expenses and slush funds are where you start.
Me got educatshun and will run all yer hege funds when you leave. Cayman will survive without you expats
wow,good job mimicking Caymanians…you are an ignorant moron. To all the expats who care about this country I hope you stay but to idiots like this please be the first to go. Kisses!
10% is not much for expats. Should be more!
Why's that?
Please enlighten us!
Relocation allowances, rental allowances, car allowances, half or full school fees paid, bonuses and bigger salaries. Most HR personnel are Caymanians, we know what's going on.
Ignorant comment. The average expat in Cayman now is a Filipino, Indian or Jamaican working for very little money. 10% of their income being taken away would be a huge problem for them. Not every expat is a highly paid white collar worker.
Troll
Oh well………………More jobs for our Caymanian children returning home with their Degrees!
No more waiting in line at the unemployment agency!!
LMAO. you really think that? Cayman is a sinking ship.
Dear Children in university,
don't bother come back here. Cayman has zero to offer you. Caymanians will soon be taxed too; it's just that some of them are too ignorant and simple minded to see this.
Sincerely, another Caymanian with a degree.
Tax the ones making the BIG BUCKS!!!!!
They can afford it. Their Company pays for everything anyway!!
POOR people fed up now.
Rich getting richer and Poor getting poorer!!
You don’t pay taxes, they take taxes. – Chris Rock
Get over it expats we do not need you here. I am a woman with education who has no job and 2 baby’s to take care of. I AM Caymanian! I should have a job but the express get all the good ones. I apply but the expats look at my cv and say I do not have skills they need. Not fair! My baby’s daddy gone and I need a job!
You need condoms and to lose that sense of entitlement!
A fellow Caymanian.
Presumably contraception wasn't amongst the subjects you studied? You shouldn't be having kids if you can't afford them.
Well, at least you got rid of your baby daddy
Sorry to say but your education has obviously failed you.
Your atrocious use of the English language is perhaps one of the reasons why you don't have a job or the job you think you should have. Your resume was most likely just as poorly constructed. You probably applied for a position above your abilities which the interviewer noticed. If you are Caymanian and you really WANT a job, you could flip burgers at BurgerKing if you needed to. There is no shame in that, you know? However, instead of doing what needs to be done in order to take care of your two babies (not baby's), you sit back and expect the expats to pay for your problems. Has it not occurred to you that the expats "get all the good ones" (i.e. jobs) because they actually have the necessary skill and education for a job that you think you should have? You need us expats more than you believe. Who do you think is going to provide you with a job if we are all gone and have taken our businesses and spending power elsewhere? Good luck to you then.
Well get off your fat a*se and get one then
make some more babies from expacts…..
Dear ESTG please stop using threats scaremongering and fermenting subversive tactics in the islands or at your place of work please dont take away the only thing Caymanians have left and they are good at.Please pay your 10% and hush
All Right then, all I can see is people complaining, there is no Caymanian or expat suggesting a solution or recommending a solution.
My 2 cents are the past government put us in this debt, they borrowed 250mil in a year, increased the civil service by 33% and the average salaries in the civil service from approx. 50K per year to 70k per yr. Now we have Supreme Leader taxing people expats 10%, he should have done it at 5%.
The pension being cancelled for expats is a good think, but our Supreme leader has it wrong, it is not going to help me the small business man, what it really helps is the large business, eg, I have 3 employees and pay 5% 250pm per employee $750pm, $9,000pa, now let’s look at a large company with 150 employee’s (now I know pensions are less due to salaries under 60k) so let’s work on average $175pm that’s $26,250pm and $310,000pa in savings the company will no longer have to pay. BIG SAVINGS!!!
Maybe our leader should have looked at this and just said no more pensions for expats and Caymanians for one year, whoever everyone has to contribute these funds to Government. So let’s 25,000 people pay pension ( we some don’t, but for those who don’t large fines of say $25K per company, but actually fine them and send the labor office out to do their job), so 25,000 at an average of $150pm equates to $3,750,000pm and $45,000,000pa. NOT PERFECT BUT AN IDEA…. Budget covered……. OH and I am sure there is more than 25,0000 paying pensions.
Now the above is only for a year. What the government has to do in the next year look at cutting costs, possibly take away the following from the Civil Service;
A 10% in salaried employees making over 60k per yr.
MLA’s 20% decrease
Reduce cost of travel and training overseas, a majority of this can be done online, in fact screw you guys going away for meetings, SKYPE it’s free ( That’s what I do now and saves me 35k pa)
Collect a fees that are currently not being paid i.e. the Hyatt Hotel (wasn’t it 25k per day in fines), 3 yrs now, that’s approx. $27 million owed to us. If can’t pay, too bad, we now own it and sell it to Dart for $30 million.
Small fee but adds up, boats license, I pay mine but I put money on it that 90% of people don’t, now this is not much money but say 2,000 boats @ $250pa equals $500,000pa.
My email seems to be getting to long, so I’m off, but these are just a few ideas.
We need to assist all the donkeys……..stop bitchin
I’m sure I’m going to get a bitching from some people, but I don’t give a …… I VOTE!!!!!Just don’t know who to vote for anymore….
Please explain how expats not paying into a pension fund is a good thing?
Because they money you would be paying into the pension would now go to the tax. Remember this, when expats leave you all can take your pension money you don’t have to be 65yrs old (like Caymanians). So eventually when we Caymanians get taxed too… We still got it worse off… So stop complaining or go back home!!
The price of indifference is high eh?????????
Here's where your tax dollars will be going:
http://centos6-httpd22-php56-mysql55.installer.magneticone.com/o_belozerov/31115drupal622/health/2012/05/23/failures-revealed-cinico
http://centos6-httpd22-php56-mysql55.installer.magneticone.com/o_belozerov/31115drupal622/politics/2011/06/24/10m-spent-nation-building
http://centos6-httpd22-php56-mysql55.installer.magneticone.com/o_belozerov/31115drupal622/local-news/2012/06/05/%E2%80%98gasboy%E2%80%99-still-being-abused
http://centos6-httpd22-php56-mysql55.installer.magneticone.com/o_belozerov/31115drupal622/science-and-nature/2012/04/26/government-invest-15m-solar-panel-project
http://centos6-httpd22-php56-mysql55.installer.magneticone.com/o_belozerov/31115drupal622/politics/2012/06/25/10k-offer-home-repairs
http://centos6-httpd22-php56-mysql55.installer.magneticone.com/o_belozerov/31115drupal622/crime/2012/05/23/private-brac-paving-illegal
http://centos6-httpd22-php56-mysql55.installer.magneticone.com/o_belozerov/31115drupal622/foi/2012/07/06/panama-party-cost-70k
http://centos6-httpd22-php56-mysql55.installer.magneticone.com/o_belozerov/31115drupal622/politics/2012/03/23/miller-chec-deal-won%E2%80%99t-pay
http://centos6-httpd22-php56-mysql55.installer.magneticone.com/o_belozerov/31115drupal622/local-news/2011/08/31/slow-progress-accounts
Without annual accounts and real transparency it's safe to assume these are just the tip of the iceberg.
This is the real issue and no amount of tax will solve the problems until the leaks are plugged. Unfortunately it's politically expedient to introduce a race-based tax on people who can't vote, and let the voters keep their noses in the public trough. It's a pretty shocking state of affairs and I know myself and others will be leaving here on principle ifit ever comes to pass.
Yes, and thereafter you'll tell everyone you ever meet how you left that horrible backwater called the Cayman Islands, and so will everyone else, and they'll all tell their friends about what happened to their friend who used to live in the Cayman Islands until they taxed him unfairly, and so on, and it'll spread ill will about the place across the globe over the next few decades.
Your point?
http://centos6-httpd22-php56-mysql55.installer.magneticone.com/o_belozerov/31115drupal622/local-news/2012/07/06/filling-gab-could-save-2m
I have heard of 5 real estate deals that died today, I'm sure this is the tip of the iceberg. The damage is done whether this goes through or not.
Not surprised at all, you would have to be retarded to buy a home here now as an expat.
We just closed last month on our condo, I want to throw up.
Please join the new Facebook discussion against this tax:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/168178783316497/permalink/168487176618991/
There is talk of a protest and march but does anyone think that Mr. Bush will be bullied? Perhaps expats should take a break from Cayman for 6 months as you can always come back and perhaps greeted with open arms.
This "gowerment" has lost the plot. They just committed political suicide because they are not willing to do the hard work and make tough choices.
I am unconvinced thatthey are approaching the budget issues from the correct angle. We have an expenditure problem not a revenue problem.
Here's a skeleton 24 point plan that took me just a few minutes to come up with. It addresses both expenditures and revenues and lists things that should be evaluated/leased/divested:
ADDRESSING EXPENDITURES
1) Cut the bloated civil service and their pension lengths due to existing manadatory retirement age. [get rid of mandatory retirement age or at least raise it!]
2) Eliminate double dipping [pensions and salaries for civil servants and politicians].
3) Immediate cuts to politicians salaries.
4) Immediate cuts to civil servants salaries.
5) Reduce services. (Post Offices can be sold off or reduced in size like in UK and Canada). 8000 people on social services help is insane. Cut the crap!
6) Introduce efficiencies. Put more services online. Eliminate people waiting in line and working in central GT in high cost real estate. Do more service via mail eg drivers license renewal, business license renewal, passport applications, etc. Why does it seem like everything in Cayman needs to be done in person to get things done?
7) Eliminate slush funds like the "nation building fund".
8) No more non-essential projects. This means Hurricane Hilton, Little Cayman bunkers etc. They are not needed.
9) Change the approach to budgeting in the Government where department heads are under the impression that they must completely exhaust their annual budget to get the same or more during the next budget year. Reward department heads for doing more with less.
10) Eliminate the hundreds of blackberries that even junior employees in the civil service have.
11) Eliminate all non-essential government travel. Online meetings people and conference calls people… No first class or top-end hotels for anyone that does need to travel.
12) Ban entourages that accompany politicians and government departments like CIDOT overseas.
ADDRESSING REVENUES
Without introducing taxes more revenue could be gained from the following:
1) Investigate and collect Health Services Authority accounts receivable.
2) Collect work permit fees and other existing immigration fees that are due.
3) Sell 51% of Cayman Airways shares.
4) Sell the Turtle Farm to the dolphin park operators.
5) Collect the $6 million owed by Mike Ryan. I'm sure there are others that owe money as well.
6) Sell the waste water system.
7) Introduce solar powered parking meters in central George Town and other busy areas.
8) Increase hotel accomodation tax rates and don't give them away to developers.
9) Extract equity from government auhorities and companies. CIAA seems to have money to expand Cayman Brac airport which is not a critical project. Get that $ and put it in general revenue.
10) Enforce fines on non-compliant businesses. The recent HSBC fiasco is just one of the many incidents that is begging for government to levy a fine due to their actions which has damaged Cayman's reputation.
11) Stop giving out so many concessions before blocks are in the ground. Shetty, CEC and others have been given so much but have not put one single block in the ground yet. Where is the benefit to Cayman??? Cut the crap. We can't afford to operate like this.
12) Introduce a lottery but not casinos. Numbers are already being sold/played everywhere. Better to have a share of this revenue rather than introduce taxes. Caymanians are against gambling but they hate taxes even more!!!
At the end of the day, Cayman's economy needs Caymanians and guest workers and all must be treated fairly. Divisive and unfair policies are not useful. Introducing taxes when an economy is already in tatters in just plain ignorance.Now do some sensible work so we can succeed.
AGREED!!!!!!!!!!! finally someone with ideas……..
Get more traffic police and start pulling people over for non compliant cars and not using indicators, wrong lanes, etc. that should help on the revenue side as well!
It won't work because only expats are bad drivers and commit crimes. Just ask any Caymanian.
….and donate some of your Stan Thomas money
Please remember – this has NOT been passed. Please do not fall into the hype online and elsewhere for a "proposal".
But the damage is done; people are rightly riled up & fed up at the continuing idiocy of the MLAs. Is this the straw that broke the camel's back?
Its not a camel. Its a big pig and its belly is holding more weight then its legs will. If you could only move its bowl a little to the left it would starve to death.
I understand unnah suffering i feel unaah pain but you all better pay that 10% ya feel me!
Well expats/work permit holders I think you all should stop complaining and be thankful to at least have a job and live in the Cayman Islands. For one, you all are treated completely different from the local/caymanian people in every aspect.. you CANNOT expect to always be treated the same as the Caymanians. Caymanian should at least have some kind of benefits in our own country. I'm sorry to hear that you all will be getting taxed but guess what, if you were to go back home to your home country most of you would be getting taxed anywhere, so why the fuss? In addition, at least you all will have the ability to be exempted for contributing to pensions (just use to same funds that you would have contributed to pensions to this new fee SIMPLE!) and guess what, Caymanians will not get the opportunity to be exempted from contributing to pension… you here us complaining.. government workers will not have to contribute for health insurance.. do you see an uproar??? Pretty sure many of us ain't happy about that…
For some of you saying that businesses will suffer.. well you shouldn't have a business so full of expats that it cannot function if they get up and leave… hire people who are legal to work here without a work permit.. and train/equip them for the jobs you have.. there are MANY out there!!! Caymanians, are the only one suffering here in Cayman.. all you expats got it good! So my advice to all of you complaining expats..who obviously can find the time away from your jobs to write nearly 500 comments on this thing…. SHUT UP, SUCK IT UP.. and if you do not like anything that is happening in the Cayman Islands you are FREE TO LEAVE! No one is stopping you!
I did leave so you don't have to worry about me. 10% tax is paid to a country who cannot manage its budget and paid by people who have to leave after 7 yrs? Some people may stay, but when the tax is raised next year and the year after that, they will leave and guess who will be left to pay the tax. There are so many other nice places in the world.
That’s ok, they will get their own tax soon and then…. This is going to be on the caymanians too….
Where did you go and how does the tax rate compare to what you would have paid if you stayed in Cayman? Also, are you commenting on local issues because you still have family living in Cayman?
Exactly my point idiot! Eventually we will all have to pay tax! You all have the option to opt out of pension do it! Caymanians will never have that option… So at the end of the day whenever you go get up and leave you can get whatever money you have in pension and go bout your business, Caymanians can’t get anything until age 65! Who will have it worse? Caymanians! So like I said shut up, stop frigging complaining… Or go back home! Us qualified Caymanians wi happily take your job 🙂
I'm sure there are any number of unemployed Caymanians who, with just a little training can jump into the shoes of the doctors, nurses, teachers, lawyers and senior accounting professionals who will be leaving.
?
Leaving XXXXX. Bag ya groceries and pump ya gas… Awww shit there ain't no groceries or gas. Farm the field mofo cause that's whats left!!! Seriously, I AMA lucky Caymanian who has the option to leave, and will, cause I ain't stayin with you around!!!
Because fool when we pay tax in our own country we get something in return…you know things like healthcare, free schooling that sort of thing.
Then go! Ain’t no one stopping you.. More jobs for the qualified Caymanians for once!!
This is exactly the xenophobia Bush panders to with this tax proposal. Xenophobia based on utter ignorance of the importannce of expatriot influence on Cayman's social and economic success. Sad comments originating from an empty head.
I have recently read thru 7 pages of comments on CNS this morning, and out of anger and blantant total disregard for my ignorance, I myself made posted some comments that after re-reading them I have relized that I too stooped to your level and I offer my apologises.
I now can see that at the end of the day, my beloved Cayman Islands is completely doomed, not because of the "Exodus" of expats, but the division that the Ultra Rich, Middle and Extremely Poor classes have between them.
When the cost of living was consistantly being increased only the Poor people were crying out, as the COL continued to increase, the middle class started to feel the pinch, yet no one in the expat community was rallying about government not continuing to raise the cost of living.
There are numerous households both Middle and poor who are currently without electricity and water and have been for months,there are parents who are unable to provide just the mere basics for their families, even double income families are struggling to keep their heads above water right now.
The Social Services are overrun with people who are barely surviving, those who were laid off and are still unable to obtain employment, those who at present are living as we were in the aftermath of Ivan, some of you have posted about the various community volunteer work that you are associated with, why not actually do something in the community that really counts, walking a dog helps the dog to get out of a cage but eventually if they are not adopted they are put down correct?
There are families without food, and basic necessities, why not contribute to these causes?
Help were it really counts, oh and by the way don't get me wrong and jump the gun, there are those as well who are very lazy and only want to sit down and collect welfare and never do a days work in their lives, these are the people who have given us a bad name in regards to not wanting to work, but on the other side of this same coin, Social Services are also overwelmed with expats as well.
Cayman is our home, it is and at least for me will always be home, I have no where else to go, nor do I desire to leave my homeland to seek more financial gain in another mans country, however if it came right down to it and that was a choice that i had to make then so be it and as they saying goes, when in Rome do as the Romans do. If the law of the land dictates to me that I am to abide by a law then I must abide by that Law.
Expats who have arrived at our shores seeking betterment for their families have always been welcomed by us, but as of today and after reading the many many insulting, degrading and very hostile comments made here by someIi have a completely new regard for all of you, some of you have acquired businesses, property and have lived here for a long time, therefore you have seen many changes that have taken place in these very small islands, and alot of those changes have not been in the best interest of the Caymanian people, but just as the Polish sat aside knowing what was happening to theJews behind the fence, and as they viewed the genocide of millions and never lifted a finger to save those people, you all looked at the Caymanians and said to yourselves it isn't happening to you so it did not matter to you, you were all safe from the demise of the Caymanian Natives, not a single one stood up and protested for us we were the lamb to the slaughter, and you all turned a blind eye.
You all came to a country were we all were raised to be our brother's keeper, we accepted and took you all in, and when it comes down to it all, you all know very well that this recent rant from the tyrant will to pass in the wind, but to now know how you all really feel about the Natives here is so very sad, we Caymanians will seek change in 2013 and we will change many things that have been done to this country and bring her back to glory.
To the many who have stated that the Cayman Islands was developed on the backs of the expat labour, please refrain from drinking the coladas, long before the bankers and money laundriers ran here with your dirty money (please retain this in your brains, it wasn't just legal tender that florished in this country as we are so apprently well known for in the media are we?) so when you want to boast and brag about your actual contributions remember the real actual contributions that many of you flocked out shores with) Thats just the banking industry Iam talking about.
As for the Tourism industry, our great grandmothers, grand mothers, mothers, aunts etc, tugged many a day laundry carts up and down the hotel and condo stairs cleaning rooms for a visitors, which befriended many of those seem housekeepers and upon returning to Cayman would actually spend a portion of their holiday at the housekeepers home with her and her family, and while most of the front desk and administrative staff consisted of the easy labouers which was usually an expat, so the sweat of their brows and the toll of ther backbreaking work and that oh so beautiful Caymanian hospitality and smiles that greeted the repeat visitors is what developed our tourism industry to what it is today.
Investors came because WE Caymanians had a home grown product worth gold, they saw that a lot of money could be made from Cayman and just like the Gold Rush in California every fool rushed in to claim a stake before it was all gone..
Last but not least, you all may think that Cayman can not survive without expats here, you are so wrong, with the current Caymanian population, once all eligiable Caymanians have employment the economy here WILL continue to turn around, and rebound, the current unemployment percentage in this country is of it's own Natives and this is wrong, within some families there may be only one person currently employed and that salary has to go to so many exspenses that no there is no extra for unnecessary items, however if more than one person within a family has additional sources of income then yes our economy will survive without the abundant amount of expats that are currently here occupying Caymanians jobs….
So if you want to leave, go on right ahead, beacuse next year we will call for and get change anyhow and it might just effect you all in the same way as this new tax would.
What a nice Grimm fairy tale.
UGH.
Protest OR Pack! The choice is Ours!
You got it wrong.. Go home or shut up!
Say no to discrimmination!! Those days should be over!! Taxes for none or tax for all!!
After reading the hate filled diatribes of all of the delighted Caymanians who just love rhis new development we've decided to fulfill your wishes. Of course our poor divorced Caymanian landlady might not be delighted when we give our notice at the end of the month..oh..and maybe the local businesses and their approximately 60 Caymanian employees who will now lose the current and upcoming work that my evil expat husband provide(s) might not be delighted..oh..BritCay might not be delighted to lose the insurance premiums on our 3 vehicles…oh…Fosters and Kirks might not be delighted either since we spend a ton of money there as well…oh…Blackbeards liquor will weep with despair as no more wine, spirits or beer purchases. Lets not even think about how Digicel, the Water Authority and CUC will fare. Sunset House and Grande Olde House will probably go into receivership, but who cares, you'll finally be rid of us useless burdens on you.
Guess they'll have to turn to selling crack and weed when we're all gone or raise their rates to reflect the providing of the same level of service to the seriously depleted population.
I feel sorry for you Cayman and wish you all the best. Bye now….
You won't regret leaving – we did and are enjoying the change. We did buy a house, which we kept as we like to vacation there and if the country keeps going the way it is, it will only be a matter of time before Cayman will welcome expats back. I honestly think all expats should leave and see what happens. It will be a chance to return at some point and have the upper hand.
We saw it comeing 5 years ago and have the same plan. Its been nice living in a developed country again.
I get why you all are angry but the average Caymanian didn't gather together and plot against expats to promote this tax. In fact many caymanians are against the expat tax and are joining in the protest. So lets stop the blame game and the childish spats and threats. It's boring now. I think it's easy to spit hate back and forth but that makes no difference. We ALL still suffer. Caymanians are angry and dissatisfied with our government for good reason but it's no reason to hate or blame expats. Expats are angry at this new development and the animosity they feel they're receiving from locals. But this isn't an unique occurence, this kind of foreign vs. local animosity occurs all over the world. Not to Pollyanna the crap out this but i think we should make an effort to be kinder to one another. Get to know one another better. Make an actual effort. Most of our animosity comes from ignorance and ignorance comes from a lack of knowledge. So if we claim to be an educated generation we need to start acting like it and grow up! When you really get to know people your attitude and opinions change.
There is no comparison but yet i'll throw it in anyway: Before, and after, the American civil rights movement in the 60's there was a lot of hate, assumption, prejudice, etc but when people started to work on breaking down these walls attitudes changed. People who were different united with one other. I say, try to see the other side of things. Talk to people you wouldn't normally talk to. Get out of this small minded state that we have ALL places ourselves in.
More importantly, grow up…this isn't a the playgrounds.
I don’t think you really mean that about ‘all the best’
Hi All. Good to see so much dialogue on this important topic. Please don't let this divide good hearted people. This tax idea is idiotic, ill-timed and short sighted. Its definitely discriminatory and can only hurt us. Why?
Let's knock off the duty concessions for DART /Oceana / Water Colours and whoever else is on the band wagon, NOW!!!! They can afford to take on the debt of the Cayman Government. I, or all the Caymanians I know, could not afford to live at Camana Bay, Oceana, Water Colours, Salt Creek.
This will kill the economy. The main and only reason people and companies come to Cayman is there is no Tax. Mac says “We have first class infrastructure here,” he said. “None of our competitors are in as good a position as us.” What infrastrucrure LOL work permit takes months to apporve, business licenses take months to approve and endless more things
Initially this option will look and work good for a year but donw the line it will kill the economy. Less investment, less skilled labour and more…
I think Mac had a bad dream, and he should not have shared it! How are we suppose to continue to live. Realize expacts out number TRUE Caymainians. Note that TRUE Caymanians do not have, the $$$ to help our youths or The luck of making sound decisions and in some casesboth.
Ask yourself MAC and his adviors. (this is not a MAC attack but rather a eye opener for all)
When the Expats Business Owners pull out close thier operation and leave our Islands who will provide our Youths the Future with jobs?
Q. Will it be theMcTaggarts? The Boddens? Hurleys? Kirkconnels?
A. I think not cause they mind their own. Yes sadly the rich stay rich. what about our aspiring Youths. Are these Caymainai Business Owners going to open more businesses to employ our kids our future?
Q. When our Govenment sees that the Caymanian Busines Owners are not looking out for the Country but themseves (which is fine as they made their riches and are entitilted to do what they will with their businesses and money.) Will the Govenment create post and postitions for our Youths?
A. Highly Unlikly as they cannot employ persons now due to funds and taxes and economic changes. When our youths start looking it would be a sad realization that they cant get employed.
Q. Why hurt the people (Expats who invested in our country and opend jobs for us) ?
A. Because ….. Sigh… Simply the leaders and advisors of this Country are shallow and belive "This is my Cayman and no expact should be living here free" That is such a lame and ignorant mentality.
We are not living in Primative times here. We must be more open minded and consider all effects this change will make.
I plead as a Caymanian, a Young Caymanina with 2 Caymaninan Childern "Think Before you Speak, Pray before you Act, and be prepared for the outcome.
There is a Demon sitting above Cayman. his name is Mammon. He is the demon of gluttony and unjust worldly gain. He is laughing at us as we distrory our precious Islands for the love of Money.
Do it right. Make the Right decision.
Signed: Young Caymanian who work for an Expat who pays me well for me to take care of my family and enjoy my beautiful Cayman.
SWN.
Dear Expats
If you want to show the true economic value you bring to this country and the local businesses organize a “shut down Cayman day”. In essence it is a pre-planned day where all expats avoid spending any money. Don’t go grocery shopping, don’t fill your car with gas, don’t go to the hardware store, don’t go out to a restaurant or a bar or a movie theater, don’t get a haircut or go to a salon, book your dentist/doctor appointment on a different day, if you have to travel that day try not to use Cayman Airways, anything that you would normally spend money on don’t spend it that day.
If businesses complained about the economic impact of not being able to sell liquor on referendum day imagine the impact if all expats stop spending money for one day. Any day (except Sunday) would work but if you want to make the biggest impact pick a Saturday. This would surely provide government (and Caymanians) some insight as to what a day in the life of Cayman would look like once all the expats have left.
The best would be if we all leave and let Caymanian’s run our restaurants to see what will happen.
We are all professional and hardworking people who are here to make grand Cayman the best place to be in the Caribbean (for tourists)…..
everybody in the government will see soon what they have from that ……..
To all concerned expats. Let’s have some feedback on the idea of a mass protest outside the government buildings next week followed by complete work stoppages (except of course for essential services). There is power in numbers and we need to use it.
When you organise this protest, please do not exclude us concerned Caymanians who will join you because we know this proposal is just so wrong.
Our boss just pulled all the staff into a meeting (4 expats, 4 Caymanians), he said that if this goes through he is moving his business back to Canada and has suggested that we all start applying for other jobs if suitable! I didn't need this anxiety.
I am a boss with 30 employees. We have operated here for over 15 years. When we heard this news my wife was distraught and nearly cried. She said "thats it, lets sell and get out, I can't take any more, after all those years we are nothing but second-class citizens'. What upset her was the callousness of this discreminatory taxation. I truly feel sorry for my Caymanian and expat employees, I have alwasy looked ater them, but what is there here for them? Caymanians are having their land stolen from under them and now the expats are having their pensions stolen from them.
Are you going to leave because of the impact that this tax will have on your business or in protest because of the impact that it will have on your employees? Please provide additional details.
Why did he move the business to Cayman in the first place and what is the tax rate that he was paying in Canada?
Doesn't matter. This tax changes the whole paradigm.
The expats. also rent property or buy houses. They shop in our supermarkets and stores. Go to our restaurants Use our utilities and help our economy in all ways.
From what I am hearing this story is on Facebook which means that it is being read worldwide.More bad publicity for Cayman.
I don't see investers wanting to come here.
Why don't we sell citizenship to 100 wealthy people for $1,000,000 each for a total of $100,000,000? Weathly Americans are giving up their citizenship at unprecedented numbers and they need to have citizenship somewhere. Most wouldn't live here full time, or tax our systems in any way, or take any jobs from Caymanians. It would be a win win.
For a mil they can get citizenship in better places.
When do you leave?
Personally, I think one of two things will happen here.
1) the UK will deny this proposal and say that all residents, Caymanians and expats alike, will need to be taxed across the board and Mac will come back and say "well, I tried" and then have "no choice" but to implement the tax acrosss the board. This will strengthen his case for independence from UK.
2) The UK will say okay, the tax movesforward on expats only, Mac gets reelected, and then once he's in and safe again, he will proceed to tax Caymanians anyway (perhaps as part of the UK's plan all along, only this will be kept hidden from public until after the election).
Once tax is introduced, it's here to stay. If you look at all civilized countries from war time onward, once tax is started it only becomes higher and higher. This will not be a "few years" thing as he mentioned in his press conference the other night.
Caymanians wake up! You are naive if you believe you won't be next, but by then, it will betoo late, most expats will have bolted for greener pastures and you will be well on your way to economic collapse. Like others have written – the lifestyle is nice here, the climate is beautiful, but why pay tax when you can pay tax back home (remember, many of us are paying tax already back home for work we do here), AND get all the wonderful services that come with it, like free healthcare (Us exempt), social services, safety net if we become unemployed, free education, and other municipal services that this country denies us?
For the most part, expats are educated, free-spirits not tied to one place. We are flexible by nature and can easily pack up and move sticks. Nobody, not even an expat, likes to feel like a second-class citizen and discriminatd against when they are contributing to the economy and the livlihood of a teeny, tiny island, population 50,000. If you want to go back to being fishermen and battling mosquitos, be my guest. But boy oh boy, you will certainly have nice churches, won't you!
How can say you're against dividing the country (OMOV) and then all of sudden decide to implement something like this that can split the country in half. Sorry, 70/30 if you want to get technical.
Love the picture CNS you forgot to check his pockets cause paper money is not going to fall out that easily we need to shake him a little harder? 22% A hear ya deh Mckeeva!
When the infrastructure and bureaucracy are put in place to collect taxes, who will be next on the list? Caymanians, now is the time to stop this before it starts. Anyone who looks at government spending sees how wasteful they are. Giving them more money to keep this merry-go-round going is not the answer.
ONE LOVE
Caymanians, who think this is a good idea, consider this.
This idea could push this county into a very deep recession and cause years’ worth of damage to its population and reputation. I for one will leave if this happens and return home where my bills are cheaper and I see the benefit of my tax such as free health care, free schools, good roads and cheaper bills.
EXTRA REVENUE MEASURES ARE NOT NEEDED.
ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IS INCREASE THE VALUE
FOR MONEY SPENT BY GOVERNMENT,
FROM FORTY FIVE CENTS 00.45c to SEVENTY FIVE CENTS 00.75c
on the dollar $1.00
There you have it problem solved. Ahhh but then I wont get re-elected,
seee I'm more important than the country and all it's people.
McKeeva's modus operandi : destroy Cayman.
"No taxation if you have a say on representation"
WHY are Expat CIVIL SERVANTS not included. this reaks of DISCRIMINATION….maybe trim some of the pork fat from the CS and this will help. Stop hiring people who cant get or hold a job in the private sector. I can think of an HR Manager who worked at a local bank but was let go and came back to work in the CS to torment and step on Caymanians. This is what needs to be done!!!!!!
Caymanians this not the time to bash Caymanians!!
Look I agree with the majority, this is ludacris and extremely damaging for ALL OF US.
But please bashing each other will solve NOTHING.
SO STOP!!!
I just moved home from completing my Master's Degree, excited to gain experience on my beautiful island with an abundance of opportunities! Now I know if this goes throught these opportunities will be far and wide. This does not just change the situation for expats but EVERYONE. It will change the talent we bring in, the people who I'm being trained by right NOW, for example. It'll change my circle of friends as many of them are expats because I have more in common with them. The extremely sad and scary part is, other Caymanians like myself have seen the world and have dual citizenship with various countries and are not afraid to live and work somewhere else. I am one Caymanian always trying to better myself and grab what opportunities I can and if they no longer exist here, I will leave too. And we are the ones that need to stay and make the difference. But how can we? What can we do?!!! I'm so sad for my island, which has changed so much in my 23 years. It's heartbreaking. It is so difficult to hear others ask how we are going to change things, who is going to step up and run and bring fresh and educated blood to the table?! And to know for someone to do so is someone giving up their dream to save our country. There is a big task at hand and I am hoping someone is willing to take it on. To my fellow Caymanians: ignorance breeds ignorance – stand up and make a difference. To my hardworking expat colleagues – this cannot go through and if it does know that there are thousands of us on your side. I'm almost jealous that you can leave without looking back. You know why you loved these Islands, help us save them. We need you. And to Mckeeva: open your eyes to the real situation, the real problems and the real solutions.
Of all the comments posted this is one is written from the heart and the most sincerest and honest that I've read.
Thank you for your point of view and sorry that you feel you won't be able to stay on island.
So now I get to pay taxes in my own country AND in this one…
And you gave HOW MUCH TO THE CHURCHES?????
Nation building..community building
And you're worried about scams from Nigeria! LMFAO!!!!!
He had to get the tax from somewhere after he gave dart the rights to room tax
Do we really think the UK will approve this garbage???? Could they hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
The reality here is that, even if the UK refuses this tax proposal the damage to Cayman's reputation is already done.
Any expat that was planning on investing in this country has realised the risks involved of placing their livelihoods into a place where they have no rights.
I left Africa for its blatant racism, and given recent events, I have to say the similarities between Mckeeva and Mugabe are quite uncanny.
One can only wonder when Gov't will start nationalising…
If we tax their nationals more of them will stay = more tax revenue for them = good for the UK
If we have more revenue, that makes us a lower risk for needing financial assistance = good for the UK
If we lose our financial industry, that will be one less reason to remain a territory = we leave the UK = good for the UK
Uh, yeah, they will approve it if they can.
So THIS is what happens when the un-educated govern in a complexe and in an increasingly globalized economic system. This Island will make a terrific (or terrifying) case study for my upcoming thesis ! Thank you ! – Sincerely, a fellow traveler
Time Line:
1) Mac announces "community enhancement fee" for expats only,
2) UK denies saying any taxation must be applied to all,
3) Mac starts his campaign for independence siting too much UK interference in the running of his country.
4) Independence and Mac's coronation.
Please my Caymanian friends: Locals and Expats alike. We do NOT want independence. We want honest politicians and frugal spending. My grandfathers going back to the 1700's here would not want this disaster and the people of West Bay need to stop drinking the kool-aid of craziness.
Please, please, please…..do not let Mac kill this little BTOC.
I CAN VOTE and would rather be under direct UK control then let another group of self serving politicians ruin my home.
Stop the madness, stop the PPM and UDP. Stop party politricks. Independence will only throw us into the madness like our Eastern Caribbean cousins. STOP MAC NOW.
PEOPLE ARE NOT JUST THREATENING TO LEAVE, THEY ARE MAKING REAL PLANS TO LEAVE. I am a senior accounting manager (CAYMANIAN) and this will destroy our businesses! Businesses no longer come here because of the tax situation, they come here for the seasoned business environment we have created with decades of experience in specialised financial industries. At least 60% of the people who make up this environment today are expats and they will NOT stay to see this through. On the other end it is NOT CaymanKind that keeps tourists coming but dedicated expats who run the tourism industry. Our country's business model will go up in smoke from both ends!!!
Whether or not this goes through, this proposal discriminates and makes some of our most valuable assets feel unwanted. If I felt that you had done everything let alone ANYTHING to come to a solution before having to turn to this I would accept some sortof tax but not this way. Tax me too. I can vote. If you had created faith among the people of the Cayman Islands, by the time you had to turn to taxes, we would support the decision. But we all know these funds won't go into our community but into the deals that you set up that no one agrees with. Those deals you sign? Sure businesses were going to come, but now no one will work in them. Watch your fake empire crumble before your eyes Mac.
I just don't get it. I don't know anyone who supports this guy. Not ONE. How is he allowed to do this? How do we initiate (AS PEOPLE, seeing as the referendum didn't turn out that way) a way to successfully bring him down?
WHEN ARE HIS DAYS(!) IN COURT?!!!
Ironic isn't it that we are already starting to brainstorm schemes to avoid liability for the various new fees?
And it's all going in one 'Govt' ear and out the other.
Sad and destructful for all.
478 comments by 9am today. Well, he may not know how to stimulate the economy, but he sure knows how to stimulate discussion.
Apparently he knows something about stimulating mass exoduses as well.
Alright, I can see this is a hot topic so I will throw my two pennies worth (10%) in. Before moving here I paid around 40% income tax and lived in London where the cost of living was about the same. That said when I paid 40% I got my healthcare for free and if I had had kids at, that stage I would have had their schooling covered and if I were struggling financially or out of work I would have been looked after too. So I didn’t really mind paying 40% because I could see what I was getting for it. I think that what I pay in copay for medical, and school fees plus the 10% I will still be better off than previously. I also have a better quality of life with less commute time, less germ ridden public transport, less rain and some wonderful friends. I will not be dashing off if they add this tax.
What does get my back up, though is the discrimination of it. It is clear why he is doing it….because those effected have no voice to complain. If he tried to pull this on Caymanians he would be voted out faster than he could say “income t….”. The only way that expats have to protest is to leave. If they do that in droves then there will be big problems. I, however, will not be uprooting my children just to make a stand. I guess I will stay put and grumble a bit.
Balanced and sensible – you must be a lawyer! We'll have to tax you extra.
Depending on your housing costs, to live comparably I reckon cost of living here is actually 20-30% higher than living in London (let alone the rest of the UK.), so the marginal gain starts decreasing rapidly with a direct tax.
However, the direct hit on income is one thing, but then you have to worry about who will leave. E.g. Will your kids' teachers stay? Is it worth committing long term to living in a country which seems incapable of managing itself prudently, when being here for an extended period of time is an onshore career killer?
You already have the insecurity of rollover and an unstable hedge fund industry.
This proposal underlines that expats have no welfare or other social security.
I can't believe this proposal will go through, as it is discriminatory and so blatantly counter productive fiscally. However, it is still a real shock in terms of thinking about whether this is the right place to coomit to bringing up a family.
Having lived in London it is definitely nonsense to suggest that it is cheaper living there. London is an expensive city. You would have to live in a hovel to pay the rent that you pay in Cayman.
Sally, are you completely mad? How long do you think your cosy middle class life style is going to last on this rock once the service and tourism sector collapses through the total rejection by expat workers of this lunatic tax.
Contrary to popular belief amongst the ladies that lunch in Caymana Bay, it is the poorer workers on Cayman that keep this so called paradise afloat. Without them who would make your skinny latte, granary and houmas sandwich or Mojito's, who would look after your kids, your laundry or your housekeeping?
One things for sure, they won't be Caymanian, they'll be too busy tearing themselves apart trying to find someone else to blame.
Read the writing on the wall, Cayman is falling apart under the strain of their own incompetence. Live with it or move on, but don't appease stupidity with a like for like comparison with the UK, they are literally worlds apart.
Dear Soapbox Sally, I can agree to a certain extent with your views.
However, this 'country' with the so-called government looks to me more and more banana [I-cannot-call-it] republic. There is a Dictator in power who does whatever he wants, and a few chosen ones are following with approval hoping for crambs from the table. And, you might be one of them.
Expats of your type, that are coming from -25 or with more rainy than sunny days part of the World, will agree with this Dictator hoping that your private business will off set some, if not all, of your taxation by passing it onto the clients. So, majority of not so welthy (and happy) expats that are paying for the priviie to live and work in 'paradise' are seeing 10% cost of living rise.
Someone has lost marbles here. Or conversaly, take it or leave!
so you will the 10% tax and your money will go for the enhancement of Cayman, of which, you get no direct benefit. Next year, the tax could go up another 10% so now you pay 20%. What will your cut off period be?
Alright,i can see this is a, poster i respect your honesty, not like most of these posters.
Was going to look at a house to purchase on Saturday in Snug harbour – just rang the realtor and cancelled.
how many square feet? which house? I've been looking for a nice place in snug harbour for ages!
Hold tight – there will be a lot more available soon and at bargain prices!!!
I am putting mine on ecay this weekend, 1600sq ft townhouse in very small strata near the end of Jennifer Drive
Look out for it if your interested
Its on Jennmifer Drive – big yellow house you can't miss it.
Will you stay in Cayman? If not, when do you leave and where are you going?
It is evident that the Cayman Government sentament towards expatriots is that of a second class citizen and taxation without representaion is the clear expression of that sentament.
You could call or write your repsentative in the US, Canada, Jamaica and Honduras and propose a entrance fee for Caymanians to enter those countries. Taxation without representation? Two can play at that Game. This will look good on CNN!
Game on!
FYI If you live in the U.S. you pay tax (income, sales, property etc.) whether you can vote not. But I must admit the blatant discrimination sucks. I know I have been discriminated against for years in many countries but it has always been most hurtful here in my own country so now I just sadly say to my expats friends join the club and that Bill of Rights is right around the corner. We all saw this coming. Fasten up your seatbelt it going to be a bumpy ride!
"Get up! Stand up! Don’t give up the fight!"
Looks like Mr. Bush has finally been made to understand that although the Governor is in his back yard, Cayman remains in the UK's back yard!
By delaying or not expanding the cruise ship dock, the budget would be balanced and none of this would be necessary.
Had Macdicktator not canceled GLF, we may very well have had the dock by now!
DISCRIMINATION TAX…….UK if you implement this please make sure you ensure no caymanians can go to UK and receive FREE MEDICAL, FREE HOUSING and DOLE MONEY. They have that now so make them work as hard as an expat to see how it feels.
So true!!!!!!!!and give back their UK passport!!!!!
Seriously? Don't make it so obvious what your nationality is…and to the comment about "working as hard as expats do". For you expats thinking along the line that there is only 'one type of caymanian, a lazy one', you can go ahead and kiss kitty. For the responsible, professional Caymanians that lay their ass down and work hard for themselves and their children, I dare you to say that in front of them. And may I ask what is the reason for you being here? To avoid substantially more tax is what I personally think. While I do not agree with what the golden arch is doing, you have no right to want to criticize Caymanians and may I add that by doing so, you just add to the argument to what us Caymanians have to say about you. While we have our few (as every other country including your home has) that drag us down, we have our many that pick us up and carry us along.
DISCRIMINATION TAX…….UK if you implement this please make sure you ensure no caymanians can go to UK and receive FREE MEDICAL, FREE HOUSINGand DOLE MONEY. They have that now so make them work as hard as an expat to see how it feels.
Tell me now how would a Caymanian which is a BOTC (BRITISH Overseas Territory Citizen), going to my motherland (England) be considered an expat???? Really!!!
call it what you like, but it's high time you all know what it is to be discrimination feels like….
I think you will find that very few Caymanians have moved to the UK since this law was passed and even fewer have made use of medical, housing, dole benefits.
I agree it is a discrimination Tax, but you cannot blame the Caymanian people, albeit the majority did vote for him at the last election. The majority of Caymanians that I have spoken to do not agree with this announcement either as they believe it is unlikely to solve the economic crisis the government is in. More likely, it will have a negative impact on business, the property market and on the people.
I believe McKeeva already knows that the UK is unlikely to accept the taxation of expats only and if there is income tax, it is likely to be across the board. He probably just wants to say to the people that he tried to prevent locals from being taxed but was powerless to stop it. The blame will be placed at UK's doorstep.
How stupid are Caymanians that think this wont negatively affect them? Seriously. First, my expat tenants are going to come to me and say they can no longer pay the rent. So I give them a FURTHER deduction and I earn less.
Any job infront of a computer can be transferred to another jursidiction. More tenants (AND JOBS) gone.
Once the above occurs Government will then turn to us for money. Its a natural progression.
So who are the winners in this? CS? I doubt it. One fact of life is money has to be earned. Their fat pensions, for which they do not contribute, will simply be inflated away. You will receive nothing. Why? Because you preferr to support big government rather than earn aproper living.
P.S. At first I thought Mac must be delusional as he owns a real estate company. Then I realized he not only doesn't sell to the common man, but he gets the deals before they get to the market.
sorry to say this but : up yours…but how stupid? Are you implying we are studpid to start with and but to what degree?!
And how mcuh will the government actually collect?
Many employers already pocket their employees' pension and health care deductions.
Who will enforce this? How will it be enforced? Will the enforcement be effective? Will certain well connected employers be exempt from paying?
Just wondering.
wow.. lots of comments here by expats. What I find funny is; During the whole issue with Mac and his minions along with PPM and their stupid rebuttals, most expats were smiling and going on their merry way. I asked quite a few how they felt about the whole government and the issues the island had and about 95% said they didnt follow it nor care cause it didnt affect them. They love the water, they get paid and when its time to go home, they go home. NOW… that he has brought up something that affects their wallets, its mayhem in cayman. Now they want to march with Caymanians, they want to kick the dictator out.. Its really funny how -10% of your salary will motivate most people to actually care.
I welcome all expats to come and march. lol, but deep down we all know that your marching for your 10%, not for the people of the cayman islands.
Imagine if they wanted to tax people whoalso made under 20k!! now that would be something, Probably a riot?
You all can jump up and down and also please put your thumbs down.lol. whatever makes you sleep better at night, but what I am saying is the hidden truth.
See you guys on the beach 🙂
they don't have rights…they can't vote….how involved can they be….
Voting is just ONE way to be heard. There are many other ways to make a difference and take a stand.
Not to forget that you want to kick them out of the country after 7 years – are you suggesting they should forget all that and feel an accepted part of society with an interest in the long term consequences of what the government does? Of course they only care when it affects their pocket, because they have no reason to do anything else.
And what about you – what will you say in future when the expat tells you that you are just a taker – you don't contribute as much to the costs of community services as he does, but you benefit from a raft of items that he is not entitled to? Moreover, he has no vote and no ability to control the level of expenditure of the tax he has to pay to pay for it all, leaving you free to enjoy the benefits with none of the responsibility of paying for them – what will you say then? Here's an idea – how about you start paying some UK income tax in exchange for that British passport, your rights to resie there and enjoy all the UK citizens benefits that you dont pay one cent for – what's that, you didnt care about British politics but you do now?
Re: "I welcome all expats to come and march. lol, but deep down we all know that your marching for your 10%, not for the people of the cayman islands."
Truer words have never been spoken, my friend.
It is what it is, regardless of how controversial.
The worst mistake the vulnerable members of our society could make is to believe that certain individuals truly give a damn about their plight.
They did not yesterday – and as soon as this latest dust settles, it will be back to the status quo.
(Thumbs away ….)
🙂
I am an expat. I get rolled over next year. I protested against the East End Seaport, I protested against the Oil Refinery, I have put my name to various petitions against lunatic proposals made by Bush which would adversely affect the future of the Cayman Islands and Caymanians. Damn right I will march against this tax – not because I have a problem paying it, but because I have a problem with such blatant discrimination by so-called "leaders" in this day and age. I would equally protest against discrimination against Caymanians, having already made myself unpopular in certain workplaces for speaking up against such discrimination when I see it.
Please don't generalise.
One good thing about this tax proposal is that it brings out the xenophobic expat haters to enjoy further attacks on the foreign workers.
Give the vote to expats and see the political situation change overnight.No more A/C bribes or paving there would be a whole new and higher level of politician in the country.
Don't worry I know that will never happen the only solace I have is that you Caymanian haters must live with yourselves.
It is ironic that Caymanians are leading the charge in the demise of their own country.
Why would I want my money to enhance a community I have no stake in?
95% of the people you polled… hilarious. Yeeeaaaahhh right, and 85% of all statistics are made up. I'm sure that sounds great for your flimsy argument but that's about as much validity as that statistic has to it. In this economy (or any for that matter) who doesn't get upset with something that effects their wallets???
In one breath you are quoting ridiculous statistics, in the next you group us all togetherand say that Ex-pats "love the water, get paid and when it's time to go home, they go home". What a ridiculous and vague statement to make.
Sadly, regardless of anyone "jumping up and down" or marching this isn't the really sad thing about the 10% tax proposed. I think many will agree that one factor that has affected the economic conditions is the significant amount of less Ex-pats who live in Cayman over the last few years. It has hurt business because there is simply less money being spent… for those who make the argument that people from the UK or the US pay much more in taxes in their home countries… bear in mind that many people like myself took a large pay cut in terms of GROSS income moving here… it didn't matter since there aren't any taxes here you end up with the same NET amount of money which is all that matters.
Your statement that you've unveiled "the hidden truth" shows how much thought you've actually put into this. What's "hidden" about what you said??? From what I can see the only thing that's hidden is the fact that this is discriminatory and not fair because it IS taxation without representation.
You will see people on the beach… the question is how many less? If all Ex-pats were to go home tomorrow you would realize how much they contribute to the island, it would cripple the economy… that's a fact.
and which "Blooming" Economy would you go too? China? You people are full of so much hot air.. You can try and twist the words all you want. Money is the reason you and many expats are here, not to mention the ego trip some of you all are on. Now your pockets are being looked at, you cry.
If tons of expats leave, things will get rough, but we will endure, and we will fix it and move on.. and once its up, you all will find yourself right back here again, banging on the doors so you can fill your pockets. I watched as many of you ran from this island during ivan, and came back after your homes were finished and you could turn on A/c, while we stayed and rebuild. We did it once, we can do it again. and as someone else said, you can leave, there WILL be someone else who is willing to take the 10% loss to actually have a job here, sp keep fooling yourself that cayman wont last.
Actually, i won't be seeing you on the beach, or out fishing, or at the airport when you go on your monthly R&R trip to the Sister Islands, Jamaica or Miami. You see, I pretty much work my butt off seven days a week. In a office full of Caymanians, I'm pretty much the only one that does that. There are a couple of exceptions, but most Caymanians stroll in 15 to 30 minutes late every day, leave at 5pm on the dot, disappear at least two afternoons a week and are mysteriously sick exactly 10 days every year. I, on the otherhand, usually work through sickness because if I don't, work my company needs done just doesn't get done. I can only take vacation in September because doing it any other month would be too disruptive to the company. Yes, I make more money than most of the people in the office, but I can tell you that my hourly rate works out even less than some of the Caymanians who sit around, drive around in new SUVs, and complain to their friends on their new iPhones during working hours that they don't earn enough money and that they need to find a new job. And now the government wants to tax me to fund people with an even worse work ethic in the civil service and you expect me not to complain. Listen, my Caymanian employer has already agreed to give me a sizable pay rise if this tax is implemented. The raise will actually mean slightly more money to me than I'm getting now, even after the tax. But guess what? Caymanians in my company will not be getting pay raises, now or anytime in the near future because my employer's cost of business just went up and the prospects for business if a lot of expats leave are not good at all. So you can sit on the beach and gloat all you want, but Caymanians are going to end up feeling this just as much, if not more, than expats, especially those expats that are really key to businesses.
on the strike can we demand that Mac & cronies take a 95% of salary and dup dip community builiding fee.
These politicials seem to be most responsible for destroying Cayman.
80% of the time it is hard working expats help the economy along….we need their special skills 60% of the time and they bring 60% of the business here
A born Caymanian
Maybe you could cut back on the number of pensions you collect while you're at it, Mr. Bush?
Is it not easier to get that two million back from that church in West Bay McKeeva?
How much tax is Dart going to pay,or should I ask someone to please list all his exemptions.I know the list will be long.
I need to understand this better. If a husband and wife in Cayman is making USD200,000 a year between them, then they have to pay 10% on that, it equates to USD 20,000 that will go towards the Community. Now this couple also will make about USD 100,000 in bonuses, so then this expat couple will still go home with their USD 280,000 per year. That's a lot of money folks. Very few Caymanians will even make that bonus per year and you don't call that DISCRIMINATION too. Their bonus would usually be more than the Caymanian annual salary. Now that the shoe is on the other feet, they are now crying discrimination to our government? Give me a break! These same expat workers are suppose to train Caymanian in the workplace, but they don't. Instead they snubs the Caymanians, they reaps all the social benefits of their companies, they don't even socialize with their local peers in the workplace and they gets in their little groups and laugh and talks about us Caymanians. That too my dears are discrimination. Too many times these very same expats tries to suppress their Caymanian coworkers in the workplace. Today nthey are hired as Accountants and are taking away the Caymanian jobs of Administrators, no one comes in from Immigration to check on this. They have all the say in the work places and if the little Caymanian opens their mouth on an issue, they are automatically deem "a disgruntle employee" and is automatically discriminated against. Yes Siree, it happens ALL the time in the Private sector, especially. Most of these Companies encourages the "piggyback" systems, meaning that the expat can help bring their friends and family members to work in the same workplace as them, giving the qualified Caymanian no chance at all. Something needs to give in the Private Sector, too much discrimination going on.
What the heck are you talking about. I don’t have any of this going on where I work. You know not what u speak of.
Let me introduce you to a wonderful new concept. It is called "conjugation". Many of us use it daily. I suggest you try it.
Two wrongs don't make a right. If there are problems such as 'non-training' (and we all know there are some) then address those problems. Charging a 'fee' doesn't fix that problem or any of the other ones. The goal should be to have Caymanians earning those salaries and bonuses not penalizing the peopel who do. The next step is that the Caymanians who do achieve will be targeted to pay for those who don't. Which is basically what income tax does in every other country. My fellow Caymanian, if you think taxation is the solution to others earning more than you, you're being fooled. It hasn't brought the have-nots closer to the have's or reduced the cost of living in any country, it just leads to tax avoidance in overseas banking centres. 🙂
Dear Tit for Tat – having read your response it has reaffirmed my belief that if the expats leave Cayman the jurisdiction will cease to exist. The very quality of your response is a clear indication of why Cayman needs expats in the first place.
I don't know which Cayman you live in but there are Caymanians taking that kind of money home, and if they don't they sure as hell act like they do with the Audi's, Mercedes & Range Rovers I see Caymanians driving. People you need to face reality, if there were Caymanians to meet the demands of employment here, expats would not be here! If expats are such a problem, send us all home and figure out how to sustain your economy on your own and see how far you get.
Now, people miss the entire point, it is not that the tax has been proposed, its the fact that its has been proposed on a segment of the population that has not recourse, who will benefit nothing from the fee, there will be no "enhancement' to my quality of life And please note, not all expats take advantage or mistreat Caymanians. Not all expats make 6 figure salaries.
At the end of the day, one thing remains true, the world is round, and today for expats tomorrow for Caymanians. We can leave, but where the hell will you go if this place caves in
Look at your use of the English language. This is part of what is holding you back, that and your mindset that you are entitled to something. Educate yourself and work hard and you will get ahead or continue to blame others for your misfortune and stay stuck forever.
I'm not sure what makes you think that many expats earn that kind of money! If there has to be income tax, shouldn't it be the same for all regardless of nationality?
Why should a Caymanian earning in excess of $100,000p.a. pay no tax, whilst an ex-pat who earns less than half of that have to pay tax? There is already hugely inflated work permit fees, a cost for schooling children, higher duty for purchases of property to list a few.
Amazing that people have this conception that all ex-pats are on $100k+ a year salaries with bonuses that double that. Most of the ex-pats i know live month to month, hand to mouth, just to get by and pay their bills. The offset is that they get to live on a beautiful caribbean island. Take that away and no-one is better off here.
Can we expect a revolt against this discriminatory tax from the expat community? Now that would be interesting! Or will expats just "roll over" in one way or another on this one?
Roll over and take our money!!!!!! Is'nt that what you all wanted all along? We will leave you now that you got your desire.
Feeling thankful that I moved back to the UK when the work permit fees were hiked up so much it was impossible to maintain a profitable business. I now pay 30% tax but my children get free education at a great school, they get free dental, we all get free healthcare, we can vote, and should we lose our income the government supports us. I am so thankful we got our Cayman property sold, which went on the market as soon as the permits went up. Good to see its not just expats who think this is not the smartest move.
Time to form a Foreign Workers Association. Thanks Mr. Premier! The divide widens.
i tell ya wha…you ever hear an unthankful bunch…the world will fall apart…you imagine talking about staging protest, when the EU is going to hell in a hand basket from bail outs and the US economy is still sluggish. .yup 10%….5% would have been better…and for a year or two and our guess workers talking about protesting in our country!! You hear my trial ya today. This just goes to show you what I said a long time ago…we have empowered unna to our detriment.
Well guess I bet someone yesterday I would pay them a hundred dollars for the first lawyer or accountant who leaves for a 10% community enchancement fee.
These people got to go man. Can't say I like mac's policies but this measure is necessary now. Write bellingham…it's a domestoc matter beside he probably the one screaming for it. The UK knows taking away our bragging rights of not taxing income would be a difficult one for us. That's why we need to get back in the black so we do not have to go cap in hand to the UK for approval of budgets.
Would unna prefer a half percent levied on all savings account and 2% on all transfer from savings to overseas as well as an increase on the transfer companies? Better yet… unna want to go to the UK where they tax income between 40 – 55%?; how about a US state with Federal and income tax?
Reading these disrespecful comments, as if unna made the CI and our world would fall apart tells me so much about unna. You have choices, as we do, and if unna don't like it, then leave. Yup I said LEAVE!!! I know unna think we will fall apart, but as Ivan showed when unna left by the tens of thousands… Caymanians stayed home and rebuilt their country. Did we have foreign help? Yes. But they were well paid and in some cases overpaid because we wanted it done fast.
We cannot continue to have unna believe that our world ends with unna. I don't think unna realize that the CI existed before you came here in the last 1 – 7 years and will exist long after you paying 45% income tax as 1 in millions of accountants and teachers, lawyers in smoggy, rainy gloomy england or wherever you go.
Yes, there are many places better than CI and many places where you believe that 45% gets you the holy graile….but I assure you if you believed that you would have left long ago…better yet, you would not be here! It still good in beautiful Cayman Islands even with a 5 or 10% income tax for a year or two. About unna want a stake in CI. We owe unna nothing more than pay for work. Nothing else.
Discrimination?! My backside. It's a line item in the government budget and it's called revenues from work permit holders!! Nothing more and nothing less. Trust me and God knows, I want the UDP to go fly a kite but this time they making the fowls come home to fly and it's not all that bad.
Unna is just crazy on ya man. Got me fired up with unna condesending, low, spiteful, two faceted remarks. The Caymanian as a nation of people is not depended on unna for nothing more than work for pay. Again, pack unna bags up and live somewhere else. And please save unna replies about unna will do just that. I have hundred of expat friends and the decent ones understand that it's still good even with a 10% tax for a couple years. They are still respectful and recognize that we owe them nothing more than honest pay for work. Enjoy unna 45% income tax bracket back home. I am just plain romping, roaring mad. Unna too facety ya man
forget my coffey where is my whisky?!
unna..unna…unna…….unna needs to go back to school…but we all know like Mac and his uneducated self this is not a requirement here to run your mouth…
just plain rude….
yeah unna…i could have some other choice words. You don't want to pick a rowe with me ya now. UNNA would like to believe we not schooled; but, we know this about UNNA. We accept the arrogance UNNA bring to the table.
You sir are the epitome of everything that is wrong with the attitudes on this island. I won't denigrate you on your prose; I don’t think CNS supports comments that long.
I will say this. If you think that this is a positive step for the Cayman Islands you are sorely mistaken. Read the comments here and try to be objective.
To you and all those Caymanians rejoicing in ‘getting one over’ on the ‘rich, lazy, atheist and selfish’ (I’m paraphrasing) expat community, know this – if they tax us, you are next. The long term damage to this country will be overwhelming and irreversible.
If you cant be bothered to educate yourself on the basics of communication (English in this case) how can anyone believe that you have educated yourself on what it is you are trying to communicate?
Also your slang sounds a bit patois. I bet you are a closet expat. UNNA PAPA CAYMANIAN NUH ?
You are a disgrace to Caymanians to be honest. One of the reasons why expats stay on this beautiful yet flawed island is because of the people and how warm and friendly they are. It is uneducated, moronic baboons like you who are destroying the island, the economy and and ultimately the quality of life for Caymanians.
You cannot see past the end of your ignorant, racist nose.
Why isn't this tabbed under the Crime section, it should be!
mckeeva..you are a godamn idiot and now you will feel the wrath of the people who make this place tick…..
The problem with this present government is that they are not willing to give up their pet projects in order to get the budget balanced.
Look at the two-month budget; you will see money listed for the ongoing of their pet projects.
For starters, what needs to be done is (1) put all pet capital projects on hold, (2) cut all these special funds (eg nation building and the slush fund) and handouts to churches, etc., (3) start to re-combine departments in order to do a gradual reduction of the Civil Service thereby eliminating the need for so many high-end (high-paid) employees (eg let PWD be responsible for all government buildings' construction and maintenance as it was in previous years), (4) go to a simpler accounting system, and … … …
Let me save you all a lot of Blood Pressure meds.
Here's the short and skinny….
UDP is a big bunch of @#@ ups and they need our Jolly old Mother Ensgland to accept a budget we are proposing. So our hairbrained schemer decides…..huuuuummmm Slush fund or Taxes or cut CS…..Can't cut CS cause well thats UDP death in 2013. Can't cut Slush Fund (aka Solar Panel, Nation Building Fund, Home Repairs) So Tax it is.
But before we start to blow some gaskets lets understand this whole thing for what it is.
This is words on paper to pass a budget. He doesn't know man in teh moon of what this entails. He seems to think this kind of thing can be thrown together overnight.
As I sit here I pitty thepoor fool honestly. He's going to:
1) Establish a office space
2) Hire Staff
3) Acquire hardware
4) Acquire proper software
5) Establish proper policies and procedures
6) Train Staff
7) Train Businesses
8) Create means to detect who should be paying and who should not be paying
And do this all before he leaves office? People it took us 3 months to understand OMOV and there were still some 2 to 3,000 idiots who didn't get it. How easy was that to get? One person gets one vote. Simple you would think.
Ok. I get that the law firms and banks will be kind of easy to target but past the big businesses how do they know who didn't pay but was suppose to pay? Are they planning on auditing businesses? How many businesses pay in cash to their employees?
Ok another hypothetical question. As you know many businesses are seasonal. Sometimes things BOOM and then they go dead. So in Months 1 – 5 I am making more than the prorated 20,000 per annum but then business falls off and I end up making 18,500 per annum, Do they claim back bacause they never met limit? Is it based on calendar year?
This is all piped dreams. Systems like this takes a year or two to set up at best which is far more time than he has left as Premier of this country cause unless he is prepared to give the whole Island new fridges he won't get back that seat. I believe the OMOV must have shown him the distain the people have for him. (PS I like Jenn-Air Stainless Steel please)
Let me help you Mr Bush and I do not have any PHD or Masters. Just a lowly person on the totem pole with some accounting knowledge.
Cut the bleeping slush fund, cause you and I know and half of Cayman know that your Nation Building, Solar Panel and Home repairs are nothing more than vote buying schemes. That's 25+ million right there. Move ahead with automating as many functions you can throughout the CS and move those employees into private sector. Offer some incentives to businesses who take on CS staff.
People RELAX. Big Mac is pulling another Refinery crap out the tail pipe again for us to jump and rail about. This is not even a good pipe dream. This makes Cohen and Cohen look like government bonds.
I am saddened by the fact that we have such a silly person holding our most sacred seat. I wonder if he thinks the UK FCO are idiots. Does he actually believe that they think he can do this at the drop of a hat? Many small businesses struggle to understand simple payroll and he thinks they are going to easily grasp payroll taxes!! You know how many of them will actually pay?
So do not blow a gasket anyone. This is only to play the fool in front of mother England sssssh lets hope they buy it.
By the way. I do agree CS should pay their health and pension (duck….incoming!!!!)…wooops…..darn hard hats they don't make them the way they use to. Aaah crap made in China!!! Damn you CHEC. DAMN YOU!!!!
I guess McKeewa over looked the fact that he will have a tought time getting his name added to the List of National Heroes of the Cayman Islands as he is the FIRST PREMIER TO INTRODUCE TAX TO THE CAYMAN ISLANDS…….
You are dead right, but doubt if there is enough bronze anyway
Caymans & Expats United Against Taxation – a FB group that has over 1700 members in less than 6 hours. Join it. Let's show our faces. It's an easy way to start a movement.
Caymanians**
Tell me who to contact to join up – I am one expat who has had enough and am willing to lend my voice to this fight – Why should I pay for the continued inefficiencies of a bloated, humungous civil service and an incompetent bunch of politicians who refuse to tighten their own f….ing belts and pay their own fare share of expenses, take paycuts, etc. like the private sector has had to do in the past 4 years, but expect the rest of us in the private sector to continue to pay for their extravangances and their F…ing way of life? No Sir, not willing to do that! Tell me who to contact and I will gladly join this movement and I willingly will go to the U.N. on my own F..ing expense to categorically say NO TAXATION WITHOUT F…ING REPRESENTATION!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/168178783316497/
Why not just turn in your work permit and leave? That would send a clear message.
Bro… a Facebook group isnt going to change anything. For your information… Liking a Facebook page doesn't change the world buddy.
It's settled. It's happening. Nothing you can do now besides deal with it.
No but we use the group to communicate to each other how we are going to stop this. We haven't REALLY TRIED TO STOP THIS GUY. WE need a better place that the anonymous haven of CNS to come together! It takes a few seconds to join and to leave. If he doesn't work it was worth a 10 second try. We need educated organisation by educated people who are willing to try and make a change.
Search Caymanians & Expats United Against Taxation
Let's make it go viral and start to plan how we can make a difference.
Yes, we need a place where we can gather in our numbers but put our names to what we say. Mac has Facebook. He'll see what he's done.
Come on… lol
Having a Facbook page to complain is fine a dandy but since when has Mac actually cared about anything besides his own pocket? McKeeva has a Facebook yeah.. you think he sits there and reads all the shit peolpe post? Na. He sits in his nice house and plans more idiotic ways to benefit him and hurt the country. McKeeva doesnt care man.
Type your issues on Facebook as much as you want but until McKeeva is out of power and a UK take-over takes place. Cayman is DOOMED. That's it. Done.
……. you really thing that McKeeva is going to change his mind now because you have a Facebook group with 2000+ likes against it. No. Come on get realistic.. We can all see how he works and a Facebook group isn't going to change the man.
Plenty unemployed people around the world with more qualifications that will gladly take the jobs of those who leave. So please, trying to bluff, to get your way wont work!!!
If this tax was imposed on Caymanians only, not one Legal Alien woukd have said, cry-out or protest about the "unfairness" of it.
The double standards of SOME of the people who come here is unreal. They claim that they are not racist or bias, but their actions and comments show other wise.
But if a Caymanian even mentioned the word "Caymanian" with pride, the first thing you here out of some people's mouth is that they are being anti-expat.
The time has come to cut the civil service by 50% and social service and say no to payroll taxes for expats. Cayman cannot live without expats and their money.
Please note – that people can add or invite people. The number is inflated. You have to go and look through the people who have actually JOINED. The number is not reflective of people who actually "like" or "belong" to the group. People can just put other people in it without their permission. Please – somebody note that as it is getting many people in trouble.
RICH PEOPLES PROBLEMS! Please people, 541 miles to the east is an impovrished country called Haiti, who dream about getting 2,000 calories a day or having the fortune of having their kids go to school for more than a few years.
Here, we are arguing about whether expats will save less money to ultimately take back to their home country, or civil servants taking a bit of a pay cut. Come on people.
And oh yeah, some of us when a whole 9 hours without power on a nice sunny day, and I never heard so much whining in weeks.
Cool your rhetoric kids. Even the poorest of us here have it better off than most of our friends 541 miles to the east. Its nice to have rich peoples problems.
Although you point is taken, its not the people of Haiti that made themselves poor. It was dishonestand corrupt politicians. Cayman does not exist outside this world.
And I think you must made a valid point in responding too – "…its not the people of Haiti that made themselves poor. It was dishonest and corrupt politicians…"
Perhaps the original poster will now see the irony of Cayman's current position?
Why don't you volunteer your time and go over there then?
Everything is relative. Haiti's plight is terrible but unless the 10% is going directly to help them it's irrelevant.
I do, three times in the last year. So, thanks for your encouragement. You might find it fulfilling as well. A little bit of red tape at first, and take a couple of shots, and we can gladly use another hand (seriously).
Spend a little bit of time there and meet a wonderful and humble population, and these 'problems' here will just seem trivial.
Is there no one who has the power and influence to stop him???
This is certain death for our beloved Island!
Mike Ryan, but he’s traveling.
Do not worry, it's a stratigy, the UK will not approve of it
and then he can continue his b-s about the conspiricy between the FCO, PPM, Indipendment MLA member and others against his GOVT, SHIP WITHOUT RUDDER.
Thank God for the FCO and the FOI law otherwise you know where we will be
Out with Bush..out with the LA…I know the Expats he great organizational skills…I watch them put togehter their events all the time…Expats I challenge you to put together an event against government and put it right on their doorstep.
Make them do what is right….cut the bloody services and the staff to go along…privatize the garabage operations, make the port cut salary on senior staff and other overpaid staff, reduce the amount of members in the house, do not pay members or ministers any salary, reduce senior senior civil servants salary by 20-30% (AG is worthless and many more like him), close down a few post offices, deport foreign prisoners in our jails, collect outstand money owed by Ritz Carlton developer or make them pay by threating to close down the resort until money is owed, close down CINICO and lease the hospital out to a private organization, close down UCCI and use the money instead as vouchers towards students studying oversea, legalize small amounts of marijuana and free the weed prisoners and expunge their records, institute a national lottery, stop giving churches money, cut the amount of flights to Cayman Brac on cayman airways and let Island Air deal with this business, don't expand airport in the brac, drop the international standard on Cayman Brac port, stop granting duty waivers on foolishness, discourage land banking and encourage a system where consumer credit is cheaply and readly available. Implement and encourage investment into natural gas fuel generation as to drive down the cost of energy and thus the cost of living. Promote health in the citizens by taxing (junk food and soda, liqour and cigs) and offering discounts. Remove duty free allowance on returning travellers and make it subject to a minimum charge of $75 for the first $350 spent abroad. Put a proper financial system (banking/insurance)in place to deal with the financing of agribusiness and remove stupid laws that deal with imprtation of plants and animals/soil. And if this don't start reducing expenses levy a head tax on every adult person living in the country and without payment of this fee they will not be entitled to government services. (work permit or Diver license) that would be fairer
Caymanian
Oh you forget one thing repeal the mass status grants that is the basis of all the problems that the Cayman Islands are now experiencing and there is more, much more to come our population has increased by far too much. Caymanians this was the the straw that broke our backs the MASS STATUS GRANTS and nothing else. Now go undo that! and stop complaning about taxes we need to get money from somewhere.
Thank you very much, nuff said…… Exodus, make um get to steppin yes…..
You won't have to worry about the population soon, your economy is going to sink beyond reach once all the expats leave. Last one left please shut the door.
Close down ucci? You do realize it’s gonna cost at least triple tosend each student overseas to study? Did you think about that before ou posted?
Does UCCI offer a proper education? or are you complaining that the expats snub you in the office…well, get a proper education overseas and then you will be able to compete.
Oh…and P.S. school in the UK ain't expensive my friend and the last time I checked all Caymanians hold British Passports and are entitled to reduced fee. Sooner you take America out your mind the better with their corporate education system all about making money..
Yes, close down UCCI and offer vouchers!
ah i think you are a bit behind a uk education was more affordable before the current changes.
However I don't think ,if they can afford it, going overseas for a few years hurts anyone. It when they come back qualified and their is filled permenantly by an expat whose primary qualfication ( this naturally does not apply in all cases!)
"..encourage a system where consumer credit is cheaply and readly available".
You mean follow the example of the U.S. pre 2008? Isn't that what led to banking crisis?
Just like Michael Manley said in the 70’s, that there are four flights a day to Miami, if you don’t like it here you can leave.
This is what Mac is saying now.
How did that work out for Jamaica?
Not so good I would say.
But history is lost on those who refuse to study, or even worse I fear, cannot even comprehend even simple economic principles or are to pompous to learn from the mistakes of others.
The thumbs down are from the pompous. To your point, they don't even know it.
alot of times the majority is moved by the whim of the moment and are not well informed. As time unfolds, it would be interesting how the future generation will see these comments. All these attacks on the premier without understanding what the foreign office is all about
If this tax comes into effect, can I suggest that we change our national anthem to "God save the Expat" (sung to the tune of God save the Queen), as they will have bailed us out of our mess, and a little gratitude is warranted me thinks. It might just wash away the feeling of guilt, failure and inadequacy that all Caymanians must be feeling right now.
How come you all are crying and ready to take action now when Caymanians were out there protesting all many of you did was laugh and past sarcastic remarks. Feel da heat in unnah draws seat.
Wow over 400 comments..this is serious indeed..
HOw about 4000+ members on this Facebook group? In less than 24 hours
http://www.facebook.com/groups/168178783316497/permalink/168487176618991/
Could not have said it better, DESPOT to the nth degree!
Waste, foolishness, pride and greed, stirred together with arrogance and stupidity. This is a sad day for anyone with a conscience or a brain.
Also, shame on you, UDP MLAs who haven’t got the pair to do what is right.
You are 10 times worse than Mac!
SHAME ON YOU!
So will non – caymanians be able to send their children to public school? Oh yea right why would you want to do that. Will they be allowed to access all public services afforded to Caymanians? I think not.
On the other hand, maybe because they do pay tax they will get first treatment at government agencies. They do pay for it so it is right they receive services first. Then the handout but the loyal expat can be received by the lowly Caymanian who did not come to his countries aid in a time in need. I am not trying to be rude but paying taxes is seen by some as a duty to the nation. I for one would pay tax if it was needed. But the government, this one and last have failed the country and ruined our childrens future. An election should be called if the UK could give us a couple of months of borrowing.
However if tax is only put on expats they can consider themselves the savoiors of the Caymanian people and they will let us know that without us and their money you would have nil. I for one would be ashamed of this outcome. If protests are coming I would allow say to expats go out and protest because I am with you. Employers can spare the time off and should encourage this. Do not be afraid of reprisal as Caymanians will be standing with you.
Dear Mckeeva can we run two more torpedoes on their sinking ship the M/V Big Bonus a Property tax 2% and a infrastructure fee 3% Thanx
OK perhaps my math is not great today but everyone keeps saying a 10% tax…My math says its more like 20%
Please provide details of the calculations that you used to reach 20%.
two income families would be my guess??
15%. 10% for the nation building and 5% in lost retirement contributions.
FIRST IT WAS ROLL OVER from the UDP and their followers for empty headed brainless idiots, Get rid of the expats, NOW we have the Premier's discriminating expat tax to get rid of what ever expats are still remaining. Less consumption, less construction, less rentals to expats, less sales, less eating at local restaraunts, less shipping, a retraction of the financial industry, a retraction of the legal and account industries, the death of the Shetty hospital, the death of CEC special economic zone, the death of economic expansion and growth and the EXPANSION of the CIVIL SERVICE. Long live the civil service because you will be the last generation of civil servants when the country goes down the sink hole.
It's time that Woody Foster and the Foster family, Bridget, Charlie, & Jerry Kirkconnell and the Kirkconnell families, Randy and Bryce Merren and the Merren family, the AL Thompson families Atlee Bodden and the Bodden family, Adrian Briggs and family and all other large Caymanian business families come together and rasie all hell on the UDP fools as they have the most to lose having invested their entire family capital into this island.
If you all do not become proactive, vocal and out spoken on these issues we will have no sympathy for you all when we wake up soon when it is too later and it will all be over. Remember the Bahamas when one man Pindling damaged the country so much that it took over 20 years to recover. This will be Cayman after the destruction of our despotic tyrant and dictator has finished with this country while he and his accomplices XXXX hide out in the DR with Michael Missick.
SAVE CAYMAN NOW
Chicken little said the "Sky is falling, the sky is falling" even the Lord Jesus Christ said "Render to Cesear the things that are Cesear's and to God the things that are God's". Tax whether direct or indirect this is the only way to get out of the mess.
Interestingly you plead to the very families who run the main cartels on Cayman. They are the ones who hold up the open market and free trade, they are the ones who stop outsourcing to worldwide authorities and they are the ones who keep the cost of living so high. However, they are also some of the biggest expat employers and exploiters so their word should hold some weight in government. After all, most of them are decended from immigrants who made Cayman their home, why should they now be allowed to put up the barriers to others.
Shaw – Miller Report
Major Recommendations in Report by Shaw – Miller – Jefferson (Initiative directed by Premier Bush):
1. Do not impose direct taxation.
2. Orchestrate substantial privatization and other asset sales.
3. Make significant reductions in operating expenses.
4. Develop and maintain a separate contingency fund.
5. Complete audits of all Government agencies, Statutory Authorities, and State Owned Enterprises.
6. Reform the budget process to improve transparency and increase accountability.
7. Improve the accuracy, reliability, and usefulness of data produced by the Economics and Statistics Office.
8. Review Government activities to identify and implement efficiency-enhancing applications of information technology, related reforms, and contracting out.
9. Study ways of raising the same revenue but minimizing the adverse effects on economic activity of various levies on the financial services industry, the tourism industry, and the goods and services industry.
10. Attract private capital to solve various infrastructure challenges and to develop new enterprises.
11. Increase the number of work permits, reduce work permit fees, and make the guest worker program more flexible.
12. Eliminate the tax on funds exported from the Islands, to lessen the inequity and to quell rumors that the Caymans may well tax other types of fund transfers.
Major Conclusions:
1. The Cayman Government's fiscal performance was acceptable until recently, when
growth in spending outran growth in revenues.
2. The Cayman Government is on a path that is no longer fiscally sustainable.
3. The Cayman Government has huge unfunded liabilities — specifically its civil servants' defined-benefit retirement and healthcare plans.
4. Personnel costs are crippling the Cayman Government's ability to restore its fiscal balance and by any reasonable standard are excessive and unsustainable.
5. The Cayman economy and its Government's revenue are highly dependent on the financial services and tourism industries, and additional levies on either would likely be counterproductive.
6. It should be possible for the Cayman Government to restore and maintain fiscal sustainability by undertaking major cuts in spending, by privatizing enterprises, and by selling other assets.
7. The Cayman Government can improve its efficiency and effectiveness in a number of ways, ranging from completing audited financials to reforming the budget process to make it more transparent and to make officials more accountable.
8. Significant opportunities exist for the Cayman Government to enable the private sector to supply needed investments in the Islands' infrastructure and to develop and broaden the economy's base.
3
Thanks for sharing that. Points 10 (Dart and Shetty) and 11 (total opposite of recommendation) are interesting.
As some previous posters have said…this is most likely a ploy for the UDP to have the UK/FCO reject this (as it should!) and then the premier/UDP will come back and say the UK/FCO is requiring that ALL residents be taxed.
Then the premier/UDP can continue blaming others for their own incompetence and go about spending on themselves and their schemes and cronies, and campaign for re-election.
Please fellow cayman voters…don't fall for this foolishness…vote these imbeciles out! They are killing any hope for our futures…for generations to come…
Do not take this unadulterated xenophobic announcement at face value. This is not about the economy. This is pure, political, provacation with a pernicious purpose. Think about how this announcement will be received by the Governor and the FCO. Think about what it's REALLY saying.
The Damage is already done.
Our International Reputation as a place of Financial 'Safety' is now MUD.
LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS.
He Hath Floundered Upon the Sea
The price of your indifference 10% suck it up! When people complain about this huge expansion in various areas of gov't especially law enforcement not a word out of your fingers or mouths just how are we suppose to pay for all this $&!#. It seems that when it comes to areas in whch expat benefit or are employed they are conveniently quite. Well unfortunately all of these expanded services cost money and they dont seem to want to send some of these people home so someone has to pay?????
I suggest you speak to Caymanian business man that you trust so that you can getva better understanding of how this works…you obviously have no clue as to how this will impact you.
Payroll taxes will sink this country just look at what it has done to the USA, UK, Canada, Ireland, Australia,Germany, Bermuda and BVI and many other countries. We will sink and people will leave in droves just look at all these countries they are sinking. Where will the expats run? The jobs will disappear so please government cut the civil service get rid of 50% of the Caymanians and roll back the payroll taxes on expats, they are our life blood and back bone. When expats leave where will we get our money, who will support our business, who will rent/buy our real estate? Cayman cannot live without expats…. see what has happened in Bahamas do we want to be like them, expats don't want to live or work there they are so poor and we are so much richer than them and it's only because of the many expats that live and work here. Cayman say no to taxes and yes to cutting the civil servants by 50% Caymanians can do without jobs they can fish and live of the land, expats need the office and other jobs and they are the people who have the expertise to develop and run these islands.
Taxation without represenation! I know this story. It starts with a dictator and ends with a Tea Party!
Expats already pay more for taxis
Please expand on this comment with some more specific details from your research.
Muppet, they said TAXI's not Taxes, come on wake up.
Mitt Romney needs to do something to protect his favorite country, the Cayman Islands. Mitt for president!
"10% tax on expat workers" really translates to "lets make it so expensive to do business here that only Dart can afford to increase theexpat wages to compensate" Leaving all other businesses without their crucial expat work force.
Ha – the joke is on us. A discriminatory 10% expat only tax will be shot down and that it has to be everyone. Mac then comes back and says, okay, I'll lower it to 5% for everyone. Yay! He has saved Cayman! It's not like he doesn't know there will be oppostion… this is all a political play.
You’re onto something. I too believe this 10% tax will not pass only for expats; it discriminates – plain and simple. Then Bush will turn around and tax everyone and say, “Well my fellow Caymanians can’t say I didn’t try.” This news is very upsetting and if passed, will change an important element in our history.
Or the FCO will say "no" and Macamathics will say he has no choice but to introduce gambling. Rumour has it that the Ritz design included a casino.
Now tell me, where else on the globe do you find direct income tax ONLY on expats? If the government is unable to produce a budget which satisfies the UK with regards to income, then it is fair for them to introduce measures to increase the revenue. But my God, why not income tax on all workers in the country earning over a certain amount (yes, maybe 20000). What message is being communicated to expat workers? It is now inevitable that middle and high income expat workers will be leaving the Cayman Islands. It certainly will no longer be attractive to live and work in the Cayman Islands. I am an expat worker who in recent times, have been rethinking living here. This news has helped to seal my decision. I will have no choice but to look elsewhere.
I am not sure how many persons are looking at the true picture…this is a clear act of discrimination against expats. Cayman cannot be sustained with Caymanians only; as a matter of fact, look around; look at other jurisdictions which are thriving…it is a union between many nationalities. We all need one another. We all need to work together to build a better place. Why pick them up from their countries and treat them so badly? If you don't need them, leave them. I hope they can rethink the way this is being done.
Show me the country that an Expat working in these islands are from and show me where they do not pay income or payroll taxes and if there is such a place than this tax will never see the light of day. With this I say again, state your case or forever hold you peace and be silent and stop sounding off. Taxes expecially income/payroll is the best of the evil "Taxes".
With all due respect, is you needs to "hold you peace". Idiot.
Only if it is applied to all, as it is in all the named countries. Do try to keep up.
With an island crawling with tax accountants and lawyers (that manage affairs in highly complex tax scenarios) … it’s probably not going to be that hard to find a loophole in whatever half baked scheme Mac puts together…..
“Tax evasion in the Cayman Islands” …. will take on a new meaning!!
When Mac first said he was going to tax money being sent out of the Cayman Islands I ran over to Butterfield Bank and wired the whole account up to my account at Citibank in Florida. After a while I thought of the irony: I was hiding money in the USA to avoid taxes in the Cayman Islands!! How funny was that? Needless to say, for those who bother to stay, salaries will drop like rocks and "{unrelated" bonuses in the Channel Islands will skyrocket. Yes indeed, lawyers will come for the "lifestyle" and earn $19,999 a year in salary, and live off of money from "back home". On the other hand, when has anything Mac has said he would do actually happened? If Mac said the sun would come up in the morning, the odds of that happening would actually drop. In conclusion, might I mention that old chestnut: "Weeez broke, no there's a surplus, no weeez broke, no there's a surplus, no weeez broke…".
On one hand he 'claims' that he is trying to attract business to Cayman & on the other hand he is doing everything to chase business away. What utter foolishness. Cayman is HURTING!
Has anyone else noticed the recent increase in duty? It seems to have been slipped un undocumented. Take note.
Stupid is as stupid does.
As a Caymanian I am appalled that this "private sector only/expat only" tax has even been suggested. And yes, I am willing to demonstrate to show that this is so wrong.
Caymanian, really? the reality is no one can have their cake and eat it too, so you my child run along and protest the taxes on Expats such a pity that you did not feel the same way about the mass status grants that you and 500 generations of Caymanians will never recover from. So Mr. Ms. Caymanian run along and protest the tax on expats and I hope you advocate for the cutting of jobs in the Civil Service for "Caymanians" that would be a better move than taxes for Expats. Jim Jones came to Cayman just in time DA!
"500 generations of Caymanians"
Cayman was only discover just over 500 hundred years ago, settled less than 400 years, so now Caymanians are having children at 10months old….wow, just wow
Yes, I am really a Caymanian and how dare you assume that I agreed with the mass status grants? That was the WORST thing that McKeeva Bush ever did to Caymanians. You are the one who wants to have their cake and eat it too, you want expats to pay income tax but you want access to the free benefits that only Caymanians get. In the next breath you say "cutting of jobs in the Civil Service for "Caymanians" that would be a better move than taxes for Expats" so your whole arguement contradicts itself!
Caymanians really need to understand that this isn’t about expat vs Caymanian, this is about the CI Gov taking the first step in on a slippery slope that will have a detrimental effect on the Cayman Islands. This first step targets a group that has no voice on the island and it knows that, Bush also knows that there is minority of Caymanians which will think this is positive for Caymans. The reality couldn’t be further from the truth.
Most people on this board have said, the next step will be a tax on Caymanians. Look at every country in the world with taxes –taxes do not get reduced, they get increased, they get broader and they will always hurt those poorest in society most. This move is obviously designed by Bush to get reelected. He’s hoping that enough people will support his anti-expat tax and vote for him accordingly. It’s a clever move given the reaction from the opposition today. The comment here has already shown a divided Caymanian opinion.
The future tax on Caymanians is just one of the negatives impacts on the road this tax will pave. Somebody already mentioned the CEC, a very ambitious project run by great people that will (or would have) brought great opportunity for Caymanians and revenue to the island. Even rumors of this tax are going to make selling space more difficult for the CEC. So that’s less future opportunities for local kids, less rent to local landlords, less money being spent locally, less tourists coming to visit and a black mark against Cayman with international investors… etc etc…
Expats will leave if this tax is introduced. There are enough people on lower incomes for 10% to have a major impact. There are also enough people on large incomes for 10% to have a major impact. Those who can’t afford to stay will leave, those that are losing enough significant income will be gone to another jurisdiction. As with the CEC the knock-on effects are far more than just that individual (and his family) leaving. It’ll only be a matter of time before business start leaving too. Companies will stop hiring and start planning the move.
The government will need more staff, systems, procedures infrastructure in place to handle the tax collections. Great more jobs for Caymanians! Probably not though. To maximize profit the collection will need to be either handled by an existing department or people will be moved to create a new one. Maybe they will hire though, when did logic play a part in all this… Collections is one thing though – what about enforcement? That means a new set of laws, tax lawyers, auditors and much more… and that means more cost.
Those expats that are smart enough to know how to avoid that will pay a minimum, those in the middle income bracket will suffer most. Unfortunately this first step will create further divisions between locals and expats, but that’s just a nasty byproduct.
Caymanians that want to start their own business will be adversely affected as there will be less people to buy their services and products. If they need to hire an expat they’ll need to either pay them more to make up for the cost of living here (and tax!) or try to pay them some cash ‘under the table’ to keep them below the 20k, forcing him to take illegal measures.
As much as it might sting the fact is Caymanians won’t be able to continue with the lifestyles they currently enjoy if the expats start pulling out. If you think expats leaving will mean more jobs for locals you’revery wrong, expats leaving will mean companies start leaving and with those companies go the jobs. There’s nothing special about Cayman, companies are here because of the tax situation and if that changes drastically they’ll move on to another one.
I really hope this tax doesn’t get introduced, I really think it will be disastrous for the islands.
The working people of the Cayman Islands, expats and local people, and show the government that we will not allow this to be introduced.
No one want taxes but at this juncture it is a necessary evil. Every expat on this islands has paid income taxes from whence they came so this is nothing new to them. There are income tax in every other BDT, Cayman was the last bastion without income taxes. So to suggest that expats will flee in droves is not the truth. Where will they run to that is remotely close to Cayman and will not have to pay taxes, Bermuda, BVI or Anguilla? Well last time I checked they will have to pay income tax anywhere in the world then again I might be wrong I hear there is not income taxes in Monaco maybe they can afford the standard of living there and I am sure they will be most welome. So I guess if income taxes are imposed here in Cayman half of the population will flee to Monaco where they will not have to pay income taxes. I am so very sorry to know that our loss will be Monaco's gain, such a shame but I am sure Prince Albert will be very happy to add a few more millionaires to those that already make up the many that live there.
Yes, all expats have paid income tax in their own country. And for their taxes they received representation, a vote and benefits. None of which an expat will ever receive here.
Not to mention the cost of living etc…
As has been said over and over in the comments here, this tax is not comparable to other jurisdictions. Essentially the CI Gov is asking non-voting, non-indigenous population pay for their ineptitudes and prop up the Cayman economy. People will leave.
There’re plenty of smart Caymanian people here that have spoken of their horror at this Tax.
For a country of its size Cayman has a massive budget. Where does all the money go?
You as an expat pay taxs in Bermuda and other places, do you get to vote, fool.
Someone needs to wake and smell the fried plantain, many hard decisions have to be made in life, but Payroll tax is not the answer to government “cannot balance budget” issue.
Health and pension – you learn a thing or two from the private sector. Most companies offer health insurance for employee and other family member would be an added cost to employee – less money to payout to CINCO. Pension could be done in the same way… 3.1% contribution perhaps. Here is another option about CIG pension – use it to invest into government projects… what do you do with anyways? Give it to a trade broker that loses it and tells you “so it goes sometimes!” Instead of these road trip to China, Europe, and South America where you do nothing more than spend CI treasury money on $1000/night hotel rooms for 10 persons and fatten your bellies up their food and liquor… Go on some COST CUTTING MEASURES AND ECONOMICS training course. CIG needs to find a way of keeping the money earned in Cayman in Cayman. The “rollover” policy had the greatest effect on these islands economy because it made the ex-pats stop spending and investing – saving and transferring money out became the new trend among them. Tender contacts only to local business for CIG or local projects again the money remains here in the Cayman Islands – where did you guys learn economics?
More cost saving measure is to reduce the size government starting at the top. This 18 member LA proposed should be cut down to 10 members, “no backbenchers”, and a premier – total 11 elected officials. Place the right people in the right ministries who are capable of doing the job.
The cost of living needs some work as well, especially the fuel cost. The fuel cost is found in nearly every bill these days… CUC and Cayman Water! Soon see LIME will add fuel cost adjustment to the bill, too!
UDP and PPM, please stop arguing about who did what is the past and fix the problem.
Can someone explain the math for me? Some commenters here are stating that this will only bring 50$M to the government coffers (not taking into account the cost of operations).
If I do the reverse math, this gives me gross expatriate total revenues of 500,000,000$
I’m guesstimating that there are around 33000 work permit holders, with maybe 10% of them earning less than the 20$K requirement for taxation.
Now 500$M / 30000 taxable expats means only 16666$/year…! Something definitely does not add up…
Your number of permit holders needs to go down, and the percentage earning less than 20k needs to go up.
The reality is that if this pernicious and viciously discriminatory tax is introduced (andto remain sane I have to trust that the FCO will not countenance it and force through a grown up budget) it will affect only a very small number of work permit holders, notably those in associate positions in the professional firms, in supervisory positions in our hospitality and construction industries and those in private medicine. However, it will likely not affect helpers and domestics, low paid workers in hospitality or, most importantly, the mythical class of the allegedly super wealthy partners in law firms and accountancy practices, the vast majority of whom DO NOT HOLD work permits as they generally have status, either handed out ( a small number) or earned. So the ones who will pay will be those most mobile and employable elsewhere. The population might think the white folk in their big houses will be paying but they wont be
The tax will generate very little revenue, and probably cause a loss as the squeezed middle income professionals stop spending and the CIG has to introduce a new slew do tax collectors to recoup the tax. Economically it is a complete farce. Socially it would be a disaster and commercially it would suck the professional and management/supervisory heart out of Cayman’s core businesses.
We can only hope that the whole package is truly the last salvo of a wounded wolf designed to provoke and shift blame and that it will be strangled before the necessary legislation can be introduced. Now is the time to look to our Governor for action. Let’s hope he has the support of London to do so
It’s operating expenses. A boatload of new cs jobs. It’s a robin hood thang.
How did you get to 33000 WP holders? Every recent stat I have seen says between 19000 and 21000. And there are a hell of a lot of supermarket workers, gardeners, cleaners, and hospitality staff on less than 20K a year, expecially if it ignore gratuities. And thats before you eliminate the expat civil servants, and anyone else Bush decides to give a dispensation to – Shettys team, CEC, Dart look like candidates. Mind you, cannot blame you – suspect Bush just pulled the figure from thin air too!
Doesn’t the Cayman Government have tens of millions of dollars in trust for thing such as the national housing foundation, the preservation of marine parks, etc. This money should have been accumulating for years as the has been very little spent in these areas over the past few years. I am sure that many Caymanians would be willing to have this money allotted to our deficit in order to assist with the current economic situation. This seems like a much better option than taxation. While it may not be the most palatable alternative, this plus proper expenditure control in the future seems feasible. There has to be other options because if not Cayman has a very bleak future ahead.
The missapropiated Environmental Protection Fund is long gone.
These monies have been spent even before having been collected from tourists and Caymanians alike.
That's the same for our duties, fees, etc……………………
We are spending and wasting what we don't even have!
This brilliant idea will guarantee that we'll continue doing the same but with less funds to draw upon…….the expats.
Brilliant Governance.
What you are suggesting I believe is called "Misappropriation of funds".
It does not address our leaders having champagne taste with beer money or bare pockets.
It is a band-aid on a nasy cancer.
It is not sustainable.
Um, Mac done spendthat already…
Does anybody know when this goes into effect? As a teacher I will seriously need to consider whether or not we can still afford to live on the island. I know a number of other teachers that will be in the same boat, but I guess they won't really care since it would only be private school teachers that would be taxed.
NEXT MONTH
I have decided to pay my staff six months in advance. Is that ok?
You got a lot of laughs for this post but I don't know why – given that Cayman 27 News last night did indeed confirm the madman's plans to introduce this next month (August). Utter and complete lunacy.
We should all write to: bellinghamh@parliament.uk
Tell Henry everything, (and there's a heck of a lot) that's been going on over the years – the discriminatory policies, practices and procedures, the insane projects and proposals, the spending sprees, the corruption, the failure to implement the recommendations of the Miller Shaw report in part or at all, the CHEC deal, the Cohen deal, the schools, the oil refinery, the law suits at the public expense against Miss Sookie, CNS and Hurleys, the Christmas light bills, the Brac paving, the entire OMOV debacle – which is ongoing because of more typical MadMac antics… oh gosh the list is endless but you get my drift by now, all culminating with this lunacy. I imagine a full and detailed chronology would be horrifying. Oh, and while you're at it tell him how Bush is blaming the UK and others for all of this even though it is he who appears to be single-handedly killing Cayman right now.
I wonder what the Auditor General makes of all this?
As much as I too desire Bush to be removed from power I fear that the more people run to the UK for help the less power the people of Cayman will have in the long term. The next elections will be here soon allowing us the opportunity to bring control back from the chaos. As much as the current problems need to be addressed it would be far worse if we became the next Turks and Caicos.
me no need ewe expat. me gots me eduashun.
Tax Expats? Who spends their money with Local Businesses? NOT us Caymanians !
No, we jump on Cayman Airways to Miami and shop, and bring in all our stuff 'Duty free thanks to our Cousin (insert name here) who works at customs.
If Expats have less Disposable Income, CAYMANIAN BUSINESSES will suffer as a result.
Especially when there is a mass-migration of Expats who are already living hand-to-mouth because of our high cost of living.
Less Disposable Income means less Commercial goods imported for local consumption. Import Duties are between 20-40%, while the Expat Tax 10%.
The end result will be even LESS Revenue for Govt.
I wonder which Genius thought of this one? XXXXXX
Certainly not the Premier, we KNOW that he doesn't even have a High School Education, heck I don't think he even finished school.
“NOT us Caymanians”….. Speak for yourself.
@Reality Check, Expats import much more goods from overseas than the locals do, locals save up for their trips to Miami to shop at Walmart, Kmart & the Fleamarkets, and other low priced stores, while you all shop at the pricey department stores, and as for local businesses you all shop with your gold or platanum credit cards while the locals shop with their paychecks, I dont know where you got your info from but you need to correct yourself, we Caymanians had Tax Free status granted to us NOT to you, if you dont like the idea of coughing it up then you know what to do…….
Soooo already we have them getting expensive Work Permits to work here….. but now adding tax to them, thats a better idea………
Being a local, I cant help but think who voted for these fools into power now….. Shame on us!!
But we still let them takecontrol of everything…. instead of focusing on where money is being mostly lost and trying to cut back there……. lets charge the people more to live here in our expensive paradise already!
Losing Expats will just make it worse Big Mac!
This country has been BUILT on the backs of Expat-labour. Their sweat and toil, intellectual contribution, skill and commitment to building this once mosquito-infested swamp and turning it into what it is today, is the reason WE are so prosperous.
And this is how we wish to repay them?
If EXPATS were to go on STRIKE for just One (1) day, it would CRIPPLE this island so badly that it would take YEARS (if at all possible) to recover from the fall-out in the Financial Industry, Hospitality Sector, Transportation, Health and Legal Fields.
But what did we expect when we Elected an Un-educated Despot for a Premier?
Fix the CAUSE of our Financial issues.
CAYMAN doesn't need "New sources of Revenue", we need ACCOUNTABILITY in Government.
I agree he is a very bad premier and we need accountability.
However I think not being respectful of everyone's contribution (expat and local) is a very bad idea.
This is not about us and them, but about a VERY VERY BAD PREMIER. Education is not the main issue with him. A man with common sense would listen to both sides of the arguement prior to making a decision.
The isue is his lack of ethics and a surplus of greed.
United we stand, divided we (all those who fell the wrath of Mac) fall.
18:38 that is why we should build our own people, so they dont treaten us with striking and saying how we would starve if they was not here.
I hope next time our esteemed Leader decides to comment on the 'DESK CLERK' in London he will think twice. The little demi gods, strutaround tempting fate and this is what we get.. Lesson, be carefull who you choose to lead, the likes of Foolio and Mac are puffed up with their little office and can only talk big in West Bay and George Town. Next time you may get IMF then you will really suck salt.
I just listened to Kee Kee do his usual "wasn't me" Shaggy impression in the form of a radio and TV broadcast to explain the budget mess. It turns out that imposing this new tax was necessary in order for him to keep his multi-million dollar slush/vote buying fund.
This isn't near as bad as one may think.
Will it cause a lot of expats to leave? Yes.
Will it business to have to increase salaries, with some then having to cut staff and/or pack-up and move elsewhere? Yes.
Will Cayman regress back to the old days after 60% of the buinesses leave? Yes.
Will we have back the Cayman we once knew and loved (and miss). Yes.
In every cloud, there's a silver lining. Bad for Cayman of today (who wants it, anyway?) – good for Cayman of yesterday!
Back then we owned cayman. Now the difference will be Dart owns it.
And who was it that Sold us out to the DART's in Cayman?
If DART were running our country, we'd ALL be much better off.
Nobody uses silver thatch rope anymore, and the turtles are gone. WAKE UP!
PLEASE PLEASE List below how many business companies you think will leave Cayman !!
I bet the numbers will be considerable .
"Expat workers will likely have to pay the tax for a few years" was stated on the news tonight. Absolute Bull. Once its here it will be here forever. Because of his negligence he decides to recoup his losses in a manner that will destroy this island. Now many expats will claim they make less that 20 k a year. salaries will be subsidised by other means. Many of the higher wage bracket people in the finacial industry stand to loose a lot of money. As the employees pull out the businesses will follow. Greener tax free pastures. The banks dont want to give a loan to someone who makes less than 20 k a year. So if you arrive and cant buy a property you might as well send all your money home. And finally this will not affect the civil service expats… the civil service. The area he was supposed to get a handle on to control the budget and reign in the expenses. This is a joke. Beware Caymanians the tax will soon spread. He says its not something that sits easily with him. he knows how this will effect some people. Lead with an example big mac! give 10 % of your salary to show you care.
All of you expats can argue but it is very simple, if you dont like itwell go back home!!!!! all of you that making all the money just come to cayman to take advantage of this island, that is the reason why you are here. As far as i know cayman airways and other airlines have one way tickets. Bout time the expats pay something back to the island that they benifit off for such a long time!!!!
And how about Caymanians give something back to the island they benefit so much from?You are currently paying bugger all. No doubt you intend on your 'free ride' to continue into infinity and beyond
The best way to express your disapproval would be to turn in your work permit and find a job in another country where you can enjoy the same standard of living without having to pay any taxes. Also, as the global recession has left many highly qualified people without a job, it would be interesting to see how many qualified individuals around the world would be willing and able to take up your position.
Cayman will quickly understand the folly of this decision and take the necessary corrective action.
Hey this tax would be ok IF I knew that the money wasn’t going to be wasted. The best thing to do would make the government accountable to you Caymanians but that will only happen once you get taxed.
Hope you know how to cast a net or a fishing line and grow some produce on your bit of land.
But it's too hot out to fish …
And I sold my daddy's land to buy a new Escalade..
As a born and bred Caymanian, may I urge you to stop typing, close your mouth and think before to make anymore comments. Please.
Take advantage of what?? The treasure we here grew on trees? People invest their money here because of seasoned talent – 99% of which was NOT born and raised here. I am Caymanian and the possibilities for us are endless. I have had NO problem getting a job, keeping a job, getting promoted and there are no more unusal obstacles of doing this than in any other country. These opportunities would not exist without these institutions and these institutions would not exist without expats. There will always be greedy people anywhere you go in the world. The only reason it may seem like there are more here is because of the opportunities!! Shoot, I am greedy!!!! I want to take advantage of those opportunities!!!!! This is taking them away from all of us!!!! (I can use exclamation points too)
Dear Tito,
If your Caymanian relatives would pay all the unpaid medical bills that government refuses to collect, the government coffers would have over 50 million dollars. For years Caymanians have been living on high style on the revenue that expats bring to Cayman. Maybe the expats should all go and make some Caymanians work or a change.
We would be happy to take una jobs! lol.. FINALLY have a say and be in power in our country!
Ignoramus
And you will be left in a mosquito infested island thatching ropes, as in old good times :).
You do realize that the UK will not allow a discriminatory tax and Mac will have to come back and say well I guess we have to impose this tax on everyone but “It’s not my fault!” It’s the UK forcing me to do this.
Think about it
We benefit from Cayman, yes but we also contribute the economy, we rent your apts, we buy groceries, pay CUC and the Water authority, we buy property here and pay the exorbiant stamp duty, we contribute via sponsorship to every school event, by sponsoring Caymanian children. We give to Cayman most definitely. If it was for expats coming here and investing in Cayman, via money, intellectual property and skill, that Caymanians could have or sustain the quality of life you now enjoy, demand?
Be real Cayman, the same people that helped you get where you are, are now being kicked in the teeth and openly discriminated against, wow!
And if we go home and the proposed budget can't be sustained, who will he tax, where/who will it come from?
You sure does have lots of learnin’ in Mac-o-comics yuk yuk. Them expats ain’t no good at all.
Why on earth hasn’t a one off windfall tax on hedge funds been considered? Say 0.25% and a promise in Law not to return for more for 50 or 100 years? The hedge funds have benefitted from the stability here for years, and if they pay a tiny percentage of their worth just once it could provide the stability for years to come. The UK did it once for certain dividends, it is not a new idea….. BTW how much has been added to the coffers from Dormant Accounts?
Do you know how much money passes through this island daily? If you taxed .25% of all the transactions that happen daily, the goverment would make more than their 1/2 a billion dollars a year that they now collect, with a stroke of a pen the problems of this island would be solved, no taxon anyone except the banks who make the millions a year. Do you know that there is 21 Trillion dollars here that is hidden from their mothers country,( a trillion is 1000 billion). Now alot of influential people would scoff at this tax and say it would ruin the finacial industry, and lobby (pay some corrupt politician XXXXX to not persue this tact). But of course this makes to much sense, and because we live in Bizzaro world it won't happen
Wrong, .25% of zero is zero.
I well recall being asked to explain to the then Exco why their proposed .2% of all transactions wouldnt work, they didnt like the answer but they had to believe it!
Basically, Caymans financial industry started with a tax on overnight deposits in New York where virtuallly all $ are banked. This cause many banks to open "Cayman" branches, and CIMA gave them licences to operate without real personnel here, just a representative bank. Each night by a flick of a switch, billions was transferred from NY to the relevant Cayman branch, thus avoiding the NY tax. Guess what would happen if you try and tax it? Just accept that the fee CIMA earns is easy money and dont get greedy!
In fact think about the tax introduced about 10 years ago to tax local transactions, that didnt work either!
What you should do is what I suggested to the Exco members at the time, a social "security" charge on all employees, say 2%, they liked the idea of a steady income but couldnt divorce it from the idea of income tax. You cant have it both ways, and you cant isolate certain classes of individual for tax, it wont work!
Yes I do. NO money (or very little) “passes through” Cayman. It passes through Cayman licensed and registered entities elsewhere.
Don’t post if you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Every thing this man does is CRAZY ………………………………………..
nuf said ! Thank You
From the age of 5 I was taught "Don't bite the hand that feeds you." Those of you who are "hurry come ups'' have been warned.
In military terms this is a "scorched earth" policy. If you know that you are going to be defeated in the next election what you do is implement economic measures like taxes that are disastrous but will have most of their effect during the next government's term.
What am really looking to see, is if Ezzard Miller and the rest of the PPM Gang is going to object to this too. Then we know where Cayman ians stand with these people.
This is a good decision made by the Premier, because Cayman is over run with expatriates who do not even pay garbage fees much less anything else. They are scraping the bottom of the pot in this country dry and sending it back all of it to their own country. They hardly support anything belonging to a Caymanian, Just bleeding Cayman of every cent, besides they are the ones with the biggest mouth and the most say into Cayman business. They are commenting left right and centre, telling us what to do and what not to do, and will not mind their own business.
Definately all of the blogs on here against The Premier and this proposal, we know who they are. I told them to keep out of our affairs but they would not listen. Dictating how we live and how we spend our money. Do not want to give Caymanians any job in their office and Business places, just kick the Caymanians aside, and disrespect us, and any Caymanian who does not support this is nothing but a fool.
I AM NOW GOING TO FOLD MY HANDS SIT BACK AND SEE WHAT THE PPM HAS TO SAY.
Join our Facebook group and we will protest, march, take the day off..whatever…
https://www.facebook.com/groups/168178783316497
As an employer, I am now considering reducing the salaries I pay to Caymanians so they end up sharing the burden with the ex-pats. Fair is fair, and it is surely against the principles of natural justice to only tax ex-pat work permit holders.
You already pay Caymanians less than you pay their expat counterparts so nothing new about that. Now you are trying to justify it.
Well if they didn't take 20 days off a year sick and actually worked instead of eating all the time then I might
What about the expats that are seen every night of the week and on weekends at the sports bars and resorts do they call in sick at all or just show up hung over and leave early, nothing said are done about that i bet….. oops sorry their your reliable employees huh? the Caymanians are the lazy sitting all day eating doing nothing thats all you can see. Maybe if we Caymanians boycotted some of you employers lets see how the Tourist would look at that the Locals be discreminated against in their small country by expats!!
Some excellent speculation and rhetoric there thanks for that.
This locals being discriminated against is such utter utter bullsh!t. Get the chip off you shoulder, put your head down and work hard – that's how you will get ahead in life. Blaming everybody around you for your failings will get you nowhere.
You should have been my boss……
how do you know that?
It is a well known fact. In many cases it gets paid by benefits such as housing allowance,school fees paid for children, vacation back to their home country paid etc. together with part of the salary paid elsewhere. Same job, less pay.
Let's just say I work in a position to know these things.
Your idea Sir / Madam is awesome!!! What a lesson.
That would be your excuse to put more money in your pockets unless you're passing it on to the expat. Tit for tat won't cut it
You proberly pay the Caymanians below the expats current salaries now anyhow, so what would be new, bet you don't pay for the Caymanians accomodations, travel exspenses, relocating cost, bet not!!! the coin has flipped and the Caymanians still getting the shit end of the stick…….and you talking about fair is fair???
To Caymanian to the Bone & Proud of it – if my employees used spelling and grammar like yours, I would pay them less, much less. No, hold on a minute, I would not employm them in the first place, because at the very least I expect my employees to be able to spell and have a basic education. Poor IQ for a glass of water that you are!
You have obviously never worked outside of Cayman. I'm certain your employer would gladly pay your accomodation, travel, etc., if you left the island.
It is 15% and not 10%!!! The amount the individual pays depends on whether or not the employer wants to use the 5% they previously had to committ to the pension to the payroll tax instead. This would mean the employee only pays 10%. Otherwise, the employee has to pay the 15% themselves.
McKeeva's worse nightmare: To be the first MLA in our history to introduce DIRECT TAXATION in the Cayman Islands. What is the UK thinking by pressuring us? Their aim is to kill the Goose that lays the golden eggs. The special in London from long time had something against Cayman being a "tax haven." Anthony Trevors is right. The this decision is being forced upon us by just a few men in the Foreign Office. So a few of them will make a decision for a 55,000 populated island, as if they know what is best.
In what way is Cayman a goose that lays golden eggs for the UK? Just how much money prestige or anything you like to talk about dpes the UK extrac t from Cayman.
Utter Nonsense
I think you will find that what the UK required was a balanced budget not tax. Tax came on the table when the Finance Minister couldn't do the arithmatic.
Folks, the realityof this situation is that we have to stop blaming the U.K. government and accept that this is a situation created solely by our own government. As evidence of this we need only reflect on the historical relationship between government and the Auditor General's office over the years, when numerious alarms have been raised but successive administrations, UDP and PPM, have chosen to ignore the warnings. The FCO has worked with us, especially over the past three years, and ample opportunity has been given for this government to come up with financial strategies to remedy the situation. Unfortunately, however, the usual ostrich mentality took over and our so called leaders buried their heads in the sand and pretended that there was no problem, all the while gallavanting around the world at great expense but producing no tangible gains as a result. Instead they managed to come up with unbelievable schemes to spend even more, e.g. million dollar give aways to churches, the Nation Building Fund – which seems to be a pot to dip in, refusing to cut back on the huge civil service etc. Well now we are looking directly in the mirror and the stark reflection we see is the ugly mess that our own government created. Uglier it will become if we don't wake up, work together and try to mend this country, rather than raving and ranting like a bunch of lunatics constantly intend on tearing each other down. The blame game is over people, face it!
This wont stand up. They tried in the BVI and for you smug Caymanians, guess what? This is only the start!
You should DEMAND reduced spending (including churches and politician's travels instead of losing the expats that helped build Cayman…..and repair it after Ivan)
Do not turn on the expats and accept this. Demand Big Mac to cut his fat pockets instead.
Let Cayman remain tax free, period.
Smug Caymanians??? oh were smug now because you expats are having your goose who has been laying your golden eggs butchred?? Really, I wish you could see my face right now I look just like the Joker in Batman!!!! and by the way in what way did you all HELP to rebuild Cayman after Ivan??? Mastic (CUC) is still be paid today via our enormous utilitiybills you damn liar, the only thing you all did was jump on any available flight and hauled ass outta here just like what you should do now, after the majority of Caymanians pulled together and got OUR island back to some degree of normalcy you all returned in droves looking for the slightest bit of oppurtunity to take advantage of. Please remember you ARE a visitor here and if you don't like it tough, and as far as this is only the start yeah for expats, read our history and remember why you all have flocked here to reap the benefits of US (not You) being granted TAX FREE, we have ground to stand on to fight any taxes being implemented on US Smug CAymanians if we so choose to and you DON'T…….
Tanks Mac, the savings ill reap from the free education and healthcare will more than make up for the loss in income.
Oh dear me.
Firstly, it must be noted that CIG has had its hands excessively tied by the UK regarding borrowing in what is now officially the greatest and most profound global economic recession in modern times.
The latest news surrounding the British economy released just today is a prime example of this fact.
Considering that in the last 60 days the Bank of England has pumped something like GBP 100bn into the British economy, yet it still receded by almost 1% in Q2 of 2012 , it is obvious to any one with at least half a brain that this is NOT the time to be restricting countries from borrowing. Especially when those countries are enjoying relatively vibrant and flourishing industries / economies as is the Cayman Islands.
The UK is adamant on squeezing down on us and in my opinion it is a spiteful, unnecessary and most of all HYPOCRITICAL tactic on their part. Alas, here we are today.
However, all of that being said – I take no pleasure in knowing that expats alone will be taxed … especially starting from the $20k salary range.
Caymanians are traditionally proud and upstanding people and in my humble opinion, this proposal by our elected government kinda' flies in the face of our collective and long-standing ethics.
That being said – some of the comments on here are absolutely ridiculous, inflammatory and unhelpful … on both sides of the debate.
Caymanians should not rejoice in the wake of this announcement – especially as many of us "born Caymanians" are of expatriate parentage – myself included. Not to mention the inescapable unfairness of such a proposal.
At the same time, claims of "racism" are particularly ridiculous as every possible category of race, nationality, color, creed, and religion makes up our expatriate community – as well as our (modern) Caymanian community.
Also, the mantra of "no taxation without representation" does not generally apply on planet Earth in this year of 2012. (E.g. I know many a foreign worker in the USA, EU and UK that are all subject to taxation yet are disallowed any input in the democratic process of the respective countries.)
However, if these changes do come into effect many of our expats can find some solace in the fact that salaries are generally higher in Cayman and a 10% tax is significantly lower when compared to their home countries.
Clearly politics is at play in this decision, however this is the global order of the day I am afraid.
E.g. The USA, EU and UK have voted for and enacted many questionable policies as of late as it relates to immigrants, refugees and political asylum seekers. In manyof these instances thousands of people have had their most basic of human rights trampled upon and ultimately had their lives placed in danger.
It is not an ideal situation at all but in the grand scheme of things, when everything is viewed against the wider backdrop, it is clearly "unfair" but not as outlandish as many are making it out to be.
Furthermore, for every expat that is now suddenly determined to jump ship over the proposed 10% – there will be another dozen scrambling to hop aboard S.S. Cayman.
How do I know?
Have you picked up a newspaper or flicked on a news programme recently?!
* P.S. @ PPM and @ UDP – Both of you ought to be ashamed of yourselves for getting us into this mess … both parties!!
You are disturbed in the clinical sense, boyo. The second (and sometimes the first) sentence of everything you write about negative things in Cayman always begins with a diatribe about the UK in particular and sometimes Canada and the US. Are you that defensive about your native Cayman? The other thing I notice as one who works full time and has a family to support financially and, equally or more importantly, spiritually and morally, is that you are CONSTANTLY posting very very lengthy comments. Do you have a life outside of CNS?
I take it you have no rebuttal to whatever point in my post twisted your pretty little panties then?
(By the way – the first half of your post was an observation of my provision of (desperately needed) context to the issue at hand – not an attack on any other country, idiot.)
Furthermore, for being such a critic, you sure do seem to be keeping an eye out for my "very, very lengthy comments".
Nevertheless, at least try to contribute to the discussion next time, ok?
*Whodatis is once again subject to a barrage of ad hominen attacks as a result of voicing his opinion … never seen that before, have we?!
@Whodatis, Nice!! (is this too short?) lol,
I enjoy your lengthy comments they are very informative, thank you for your contribution as well..
Thank you for the support – much appreciated.
Your "spirituality and morality" dosnt make room for freedom of speech does it?
The post spoke of facts, if the truth hurts then maybe you should stick to your busy life of dillusion.
Thank you!
Well we cause this on ourselves folks. When one party makes a serious blunder they leave for the other party to deal with it, and you know fixing the country's deficit is never without a challenge when you don't know what the deficit really is. People are denying the fact that PPM as well spent money like it was forever on roads and schools. Under the UDP the UK has become ever reluctant to accept this government's budget. Many times government asked for borrowing to rev-up the economy, and many times the UK turned them down. We have to move forward and grow wise from our mistake. Next time vote in an Independent, someone who is fiscally prudent and knows how to truly represent the financial industry.
We dont have to accept this style of government/mis-management.
LETS PROTEST!
Take a day off work to do it.
Thousands in the streets will make them rethink this madness.
This form of taxation is bad for everyone in Cayman; Caymanians and expats alike.
Another large hole in an already sinking ship…..
All U critics shutup. U need 2 understand that all the power and reasoning of a grade 5 edumacation went into this decision!
Maybe you should wait until you graduate grade 5 yourself before throwing you hat into the ring.
U no wat i meen?
The article is clear, the Premier failed to meet the REQUIREMENTS set down by the UK. In 2010, he was given a 3 year plan to fix what previous governments had done. I recall how they were to attempt an auditing of government accounts. The Premier tried the ForCaymanAlliance deals, but that didn't work on time. So the UK place a gun to the premier's head, who can trust them. If PPM was in or some other group of MLAs, the trust level would have been the same. They can no longer trust our politicians including the Premier to cut revenue because he has persistently promised but persistently failed to deliver. So for the bloggers who are saying we need a change in government, perhaps we do, but will that help the level of "trust". Over the years, we took the devil (FCO) for granted. The only way we can get away from the devil is independence, and I don't think we would be so stupid to take that route. It is unfortunate we have to bow to their demands, but then again, it is in our best interest we change the way we deal with our funds.
As a Bermudian I would like to personally thank the Premier. This will definitely help reverse the flow of people from Bermuda and will likely bring us new business.
As another Bermudian, I thought the very same thing…in fact my husband accused me of posting your comment! Lol.
I am a Caymanian and I am loving this. Finally, our government will have more money to spend on us locals.
And I know for a fact, as God made Moses, that they will NEVER tax us Caymanians. It just won’t happen, I’m sure of this.
This tax is good for this country and for all Caymanian living here.
Thanks UDP for doing the right thing and not cutting too much on expenditures that support so many of us.
After all, expats can afford it. And If they can’t, they will leave and create more job opportunities for us.
I guess your house has a new roof and your drive way is paved.
You are so ignorant. I actually feel sorry for you.
HAHAHAHAHA! You have GOT to be kidding me. LMAO.
You can't SERIOUSLY believe that Caymanians are never gunna get taxed.
And if the expats leave… I wanna see all the Caymanians with the qualifications to fill those jobs. OH WAIT… we won't.
I wanna see all the Caymanian doctors that's gunna be in the new hospital. LOL
All these jobs are gunna be beating away all the qualified Caymanians right? hahahahaha
#sarcasm.
I suggest that you think about this seriously… Cayman needs money. If the expats leave… Cayman will still need money and don't think they will be concerned about Caymanians then.
We WILL be taxed my friend.
Shetty wll e excluded from taxes
A classic example of Cayman Christian principals
Jesus would be proud!
Just like Judas taking someone elses 30 pieces of silver to betray your fellow human
to quote Leviticus 19:33 and 34
When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 3 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
You are caymanian and an ignorant fool.
Wait, you are also living on free hand outs from the government……
sincerely another caymanian
I hope the fridge mckeeva gave you rots your food every time you fill it groceries.
Do u know any thing about economy. I guess not
Economics101: Cayman's not big enough for You Expats and US Caymanians any longer, we have grown in numbers and we need our country back, our younger generations who have been afforded "proper college" education will now be returning to take your jobs as they now have earned their place in the prestigious law & accounting firms, and higher management positions which you all expats are currently in occupying.
Hows that for economics, it's only you fools who believe that you are superior to us Caymanians, just like how you believed yopu were to the native american indians, and the african americans whom you all forced out of their native lands…
But Not Today Bobo, Not Today,
signed Prof. In Your Face…….
Reply to I am a Caymanian..
One problem to your thinking….
There are not enough trained Caymanians to take over the jobs the expats leave….
When companies cannot get enough trained workers, they will leave……..
Can you not see that will hurt all Caymanians…
You see this is exactly where the problem lays, untrained Caymanians you say well we now have Caymanians returning home from Universites overseas and then we have recent graduates from our very own UCCI and ICCI ( or are these two Colleges not prestigious enough to apply for your jobs) who once hired can and will be able to DO YOUR JOB(S), so I can't see the hurt in you all now packing up and leaving, at least when visitors actually come to the Caymans they will see the Caymanians and not expats as they currently complain and say that they do not see any "locals" only foreigners during their stay here in Cayman…….
Having the qualifications does not automatically mean you got the skills – does nobody get this? There are many very educated and very qualified people out there in all parts of the world who simply find themselves unable to convert the theory from college or universitiy into practice in the workplace. I know, I worked for a very intelligent qualified attorney, who turned out completely incapable of doing the job, and despite the coaching, training and encouragement of his colleagues and employers, refused to listen and learn. Nobody wants to employ somebody with this kind of attitude, and its quite prevalent here, and this is often what leads to all the vitriol between Caymanians and expats.
Sometimes sarcasm can be so subtle it may not be obvious to all…
So I must pay 10% of my hard earned money to a government (present and past) that mis-manages money? Wastes it on lavish trips? Gives away free gas? Over-extends themselves on public projects without proper planning? Has no sense of corporate governance? No accountability?
And what do I get in return? No representation? No health benefits? No subsidized education for my children? No benefits???
I'd rather pay 30% in Canada! I'll get health care. Subsidized education for my children.
Those saying that it's not a big deal because you have to pay 30% in Canada, this is USA and that in UK are not comparing it logically.
I will not be used for someone else's greed and wastefullness. I will not be seen as less than the person standing beside me just because they were born here. We are human alike. Let's see if this passes.
1. My pocket can't afford it
2. My dignity can't afford it either
We left after 6 yrs and glad we made the move back to Canada. This tax is unfair and why pay money for nothing? At least in Canada you have rights, status, etc. It is simply not worth it to stay in Cayman to throw money away.
It’s always funny to read a person’s response, most of the time it’s usually to fight the issues that affects them directly but in this case however everyone in all areas will be affected. This is what I call someone taking the easiest way out without any forward thinking, in business when things get tough most people go to firing staff instead of looking at the business and coming up with a solution to improve the bottom line and protect the business going forward. This is absolutely what the UDP is doing and there has been no though to the consequences.
What part of their income will really be taxed, salary or all investments.
We have always been an attractive place to work and make a home by many expats and this is a huge part of the wheel that runs the Cayman Islands, there are few uneducated people out there that constantly complain about expats, what if they all left can you imagine how Cayman would be. If all goes to hell with this tax bill you might even find the upper class Caymanians migrating to other countries?
What we need are good financial advisors that don’t have a stake in the game or any political connection to the Cayman Islands, to review some of these crazy deals that only pay in the end of the deal and not at the beginning. We have been making one sided deals for far too long and they have to stop to save the island.
Politicians need to stop thinking about what the country can do for them and start thinking about what they can do for the country and this would never happen, it’s time for a reality check now.
Mac is no BoBo. Consider this: Mac imposes an income tax on expat workers. The UK comes back and says it is discriminatory and youeither have to tax everyone or no one. Mac runs out and taxes everyone and then points a finger at the UK and blames them for imposing the income tax on Caymanians. He gets more tax dollars to waste and someone else to lay the blame at their feet. Quite brilliant actually.
Maybe but that would only work if he can figure out how to impose total amnesia on the entire public that is aware of all the waste he has presided over and led. He will also need to figure out how to convince us that there is no such thing as cutting back on government as an alternative to giving the politiians more money to burn.
MORE destructive stupidity. Just stop and THINK for One minute because you can kiss CEC or the Special Economic Zone, Dr. Shetty's hospital, future hotel development, and expats goodbye and all the law and accounting firms with foreign offices will move their business offshore and run just token offices in Cayman. The Premier and the entire UDP are so stupid and totally incompetent in that they cannot reduce expenditure and make cut backs in Government thinking that the only way they can balance a budget is to increase revenue with a decision like this tax on Expats only.
Cayman's Government and Civil Service is non sustainable. It has reahed the same high levels as in Greece with 11-12% of our population being civil servants paid huge percentages over private sector pay levels with benefits, pensions and health far beyond private sector practices. Unsustainable Government leads to an unsustainable economy as we are seeing in Greece and other EU countries.
How much more damage can this madman and his blind followers inflict on our nation ???
BULLSEYE ,,,
Does bush remember one of the principal reasons that the American colonies fought for Independence – ” NO TAX WITHOUT REPRESENTATION “. This proposal will create a class of Expats paying tax, who are not entitled to vote in Cayman elections – interesting concept. And why DOESN’T the tax extend to Caymanians – could it be anything to do with losing votes next May – perhaps the same reason there is to be no reduction in Civil Service salaries.
British and American history are both covered in high school, so why would you expect Mac to remember things which he never learned about in the first place ?
CALL FOR RECALL NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Err… the former American colonies currently demand tax from anyone working there whether you can vote or not. That is fairly typical worldwide. Nothing particularly interesting about the concept.
People seem to forget that the slogan in the American colonies had to do with colonists being taxed by the British government in a land across the ocean on the basis that they did not use their infrastructure, public services and amenities. That is not the issue here at all.
Eeryone will be taxed
Once a tax is introduced, it will only increase and expand.
Watch for it, Caymanians will also be taxed within a year, as will all businesses.
After all, the 50M$ expected to be collected is nothing compared to the big hole in the gov’s budget and they will need more in no time.
Does this mean I get free healthcarre now that I will be a taxpayer ? Just askin ….
Hey Mr. Taxman, uh I mean Mac, XXX! Make the cuts that are necessary now. It won't matter anyhow as I don't see you being in power after the ballots are counted come 2013 elections. I finally get to use some of my tax quotes, see below. Should I say thank you Mac? If the Lord loveth a cheerful giver, how he must hate the taxpayer! -John Andrew Holmes People who complain about taxes can be divided into two classes: men and women. -Author Unknown
The plus side is that Cayman Airways and other airlines are going to have a boost in sales as the expats leave THEN the government will still need money and realize that the only people left to tax is the Caymanians. Therefore..
Sincerely, Another Caymanian.
I think in that last couple of sentences, you're referring to West Baya's.
Sincerely another very concerned Caymanian. What do we need to do to make this all STOP!!!
Bombard Henry with complaint letters. Demand he does something. If he gets enough surely he would be obligated to do something about it, one way or another.
bellinghamh@parliament.uk
If U cant keep up!! Get your leaders in order.
I hopemy caymanian landlord will understand I will be breaking my lease to find a cheaper rental. As a financially responsible individual we based our expenses on our salaries and stick to a budget and pay our bills every month on time and in full. As an expat couple we must figure out a way to live without 10% of our income. All money I will not be spending in our Cayman community. Not because I am being spiteful, but because I simply can’t afford it! As for our investing here any further I am sad to say I can’t afford that since the money I was using to save for a home in Cayman will now be used to pay a tax. The reality is I love this island, I love my caymanian and expat colleagues and I love being apart of our Cayman community and contributing to the local cayman businesses. But loving something and being able to afford and survive in it are two completely different things! Tuition for the kids well that’s a whole different story. Qualifying our income to even have our kids with us an even bigger concern! The economy here has been rough for a few years. crime is becoming part of daily events and now money that was being contributed to our societies economy will be used to eat and for many people repatriate or seek other employment. For the first time in many years I don’t see my future in Cayman and I am very sad! To be clear I don’t want to leave, but we are not sure if we can afford to stay here pay rent or a mortgage and insurance, utilities, tuition and for inflated goods and meet the monthly bill. Living in paradise is now coming with a price that only the politicians will benefit from. Not too mention what’s next?
Remember, 10% does not take into account that your employer may very well stop contributing to your pension plan… And the proposal calls for that 5% going straight into the government coffers…. So around 15% tax for most expats. That’s right 15%!!!
Oh well I knew this day would probaly come in the end….guess Mac has gotta pay for his bell tower somehow !!
Shame as I was probably going to buy a house over the next few months, guess I wont be able to affiord it now…
You will be able to afford because property prices will be dirt cheapm as the mas exodus takes place.
With the fact that he cannot submit a balanced budget, nothing more than he realizes he has to implement taxes or the UK putting on pressure for taxation. With election coming up he doesn't want to tick off the voting public, so who is the scapegoat? Expats.
Any Caymanian with integrity ought to stand up and fight this. I see quite a few Caymanians laughing and rejoicing over this because it's not them. When the Governor tells him that he cannot discriminate against expatriates, watch what happens. Caymanians will be taxed too. This is the trick, watch the cards carefullym it's a slight of hand.
1. Mac announces this
2. Governor says no discrimination
3. Mac has to tax ALL (locals and expats alike) and blames the Gov for Caymanians being taxed.
And 10%??? MADNESS!
It is not April 1st so please tell Mac not to be a fool!!!
Um, April 1st is just once a year – this one fool365 days a year – at our expense.
Now maybe some of those expats that have always supported Bush and the Weedies are having second thoughts, especially about having talked people out of supporting the referendum for OMOV. Maybe those registered voters who never bothered to vote for OMOV now wish they had. Reaching that magical number would have been the beginning of clearing this land of the Bush and the Weedies if you get my drift. Too bad so many people have been asleep over at Camana Bay for so long.
All the expats I know were in favour of OMOV…your expat circle must be full of stupido's or what really happened is that you made that up.
Glad I have only been making minimum payments on my apartment. Won't hurt so much when I cannot sell it and give it back to the bank, before leaving in a few months.
Pity it's come to this, there were so may alternatives that, if implemented, would have avoided this catastrophy.
What about the people who have $$? Try & get some $$ from those rich folks, like % on there $!
It has been a good run boys we have had our way for over 45 years with no hinderance from various political governments we controlled. We have carried the game and Cayman has gotten the blame. Nothing last forever as you know so we must not be so greedy. We have been indifferent on so many many issues effecting these islands until it has come home to us.We have now been called upon to pay our share of this economic miracle that many of us have made a very good living out of and are continuing to do so. .EIC Tax 10% Stop crying and whinning 10% is only the cost of maintaining my pooch Sir Winston i will now have to scale back on his meals after all he is getting a bit overweight. Have your fun Cayman we will get it back in another form of benefit.
This makes sense to me, Mac is not for Democracy. He didn't like OMOV which basically made each individual equal, not I have 4 v otes ,you have 1. So why not hit out at expats, discriminate because they arent from here. Think he needs to rename UDP as nothing Democratic about them.
Tribal logic: Lets cannabalize the weakest ones with the least rights.
to poster 16:57 Look who's talking about weakest link and tribal logic ,africa,india,american indians etc anyone listoning?.
The Premier's philosophy was from the beginning to start various projects, but somehow he has been restricted by diverse factors. If he must present to the Governor a budget that will prevent them from taking us over, so be it! I don't see why we must oppose him at this stage. In the end, it is up to the Governor and FCO, because they have made themselves in charge of our Financial destiny. The Premier is not in charge anymore! He had his chance to turn things around since PPM left us with a deficit, and so be blew it. Nothing more he can do.
There is a TV address tonight? Shouldn't he be in London for the opening ceremonies?
Do not worry your selves, it will not be implemented.
It is just a plan to fool the voters and the UK.,
pension plan, medical plan still not inforcable, only those with
a conscience contribute and comply.
Our problems can be solved very simply without increasing any
additional revenue measures.
Government reports show that the country only get value of 00.45c
on every $1.00 spent meaning 00.55c are wasted.
Therefore every $1 million $'s spent, $550,000.00 are wasted.
Leave the budget at last year level and increase
the value for money spent to 00.75C and there will be no need to increase
Taxes, yes taxes.
If this is done it will be the same as increasing revenue by 30 to 66%,
but no that takes management, commitment, dedication and work ethic,
but politrics will not allow it to happen! SO S-A-D, heading South on a high
speed train are we, and the track signals are not working properly.
Lets have another referendum with a question like "Do you want to change the current sytem of taxation by introducing payroll tax" – everybody who wants this new tax votes yes, everybody who doesn't want the tax votes no and everybody that stays home votes no as well. That ought to let Kee Kee know what we think of his idiot idea.
We can't afford another referendum. You think they cheap or wah?
Not that expensive – we can reuse the signs that government paid for.
Wow, where to start?
For those Caymanian posters spitting vitriol, be thankful there is no law on Inciting Racial Hatred here or you would be in Jail. What happened to Christian behaviour?
To the reasonable Caymanian posters, thanks for your considered opinions to help this debate along.
Ex Pats are by definition free spirits. We have no roots here and are here because we want to be. If circumsatnces change, whereby crime spirals out of control, the cost of living becomes too great, Governments fritter huge amounts of money, and the locals start abusing us, then no one should be suprised that we move on to a jurisdiction that welcomes us.
But what then for Caymanians? Premier Bush himself said it was necessary to have three ex pats for every adult Caymanian to ensure the current standard of living for locals was maintained. He understood that if you have non contributory healthcare and pensions for the thousands of Caymanians in government jobs that someone else HAS to pay for it.
I'm just an ordinary person, no way rich, paying housing rent to a Caymanian, office rent to a Caymanian, mine and my wife's work permit fees, licence fees, 22% (minimum) import duty etc to the government. Friends & family come and visit and spend their holiday money here. We spend our earnings here on the island inbars, shops etc.
Drive us out and who replaces the roughly USD 400k that just a couple of ordinary joes like us contribute directly or indirectly to the GDP?
Nobody is driving you out. Whereever you're from, I am sure they have taxes. If you are running away from taxes, just say it, but don't make this like ALL expat our on the same board as you.
So suddenly no ex-pats in the private sector will be actually earning more than $20K.
They may be getting more than $20K but it will be paid in kind (company cars, rent paid by employers, company credit cards, money paid into accounts outside the Cayman Islands, that sort of thing) just like it is everywhere else in the world where there's no proper system in place to collect taxes.
This is a 'tax neutral' jurisdiction full of lawyers and accountants who can run rings round any form of direct taxation that CIG try to impose.
$50million???? In your dreams!!! If this nets $1million you will be very lucky and I bet it will cost $10million to collect that.
Dumb move.
I already have fifty clients seeking my advice how to reduce this draconian tax. I will make out like a bandit. So for starters less employees and more consultants. Ride on bushman
I think I recognize this voice, and he is absolutely correct. If you want an example/precedent just look at the creative tax accounting of High Income earners in the UK. By the time the experts have got hold of this, whatever Tax Collection administration you put in place will be tied up in knots they will never unravel in this, or the next generation of the Cayman Civil Service. OR, if those potentially exposed to this tax regime simply up and leave the island, you will have a costly Tax Dept., and no tax revenue.
As a Caymanian supporter of the UDP at first I thought this is a good idea, afterall the "expat", "immigrant" lawyers and accountants here are the highest paid in the world I beleive. I have personally known lawyers who retire within a few years of starting their career here. When you live in Canada, correct me if I'm wrong because I don't know the tax rate there, you "everyone" pay's say 40% tax. Now a US citizen living in Canada has to pay Canada 40% AND the US say another 40% leaving him with a mere 20% of his earnings. Rediculous. I read about a US citizen living in Canada who gave up his US citizenship for that very reason. US citizens living abroad have to pay US taxes after a predetermined income. Cayman is expensive to live no doubt, our power costs USD .42kwh compared to USD .08kwh national average in the States. I guess my point is this, citizens of other countries who wish to live in Cayman, enjoy our island (yes were not the only island in the world to live and work), and if attracted here for earning potential such as a lawyer for example, then I think it is nominal for them to pay 10% tax to the Government on their earnings. Perhaps the legal field is not the best example though because I think I read recently where "expat" lawyers have to pay $10,000 per year now if they wish to practive here. Still, this is nominal when I see all the mansions in Cayman owned mostly by "expat" lawyers and accountants. SO YOU GO BIG MAC AND DON'T FRET! I don't think these type of workers who make up a large portion of our economy will leave when their still making a fortune compared to "back home". Risking sounding ignorant, I do beleive other "expatriate workers may leave if their barely making ends meet now but these may not be the type of workers we wish to attract as they don't contribute to our economy, they only take jobs Caymanian workers out of work could easily fill. So all in all, I think it's a great idea Mac!
IDIOT! If the Caymanians wanted those jobs and had the work ethic to do them, they would have the jobs now. Grow up and get real.
Perhaps you should read the blog below about how Caymanians will be next in line to "donate" to fix bad financial decisions/management – and then may be think twice about what you wish for……
This government can’t cut any fat from their expenses, including suspicious spendings (the gas card fiasco, the 2 million lost from the port deal gone sour, overpaid staff, overspending on gov. travel, civil servants with government cars that they take home, very large concession to developpers like Dart, large sums of tourism revenue given to the Chinese, etc) and they want to implement a tax???
This revenue will only feed the ineffeciencies and lack of governance that we all know too well.
Next thing we will hear is that all that new revenue has been spent and they need more….wait for it, everybody will be taxed eventually, including Caymanians.
I keep reading RACIAL DISCRIMINATION.
So what you are saying is that government should TAX EVERYONE? THANK PREMIER! KEEP LOOKING OUT FOR CAYMANIANS!
You are a flippin IDIOT.
Signed, one mixup baby from north side.
What a typically IGNORANT comment – did you leave West Bay Primary the same year as bush.
These are the days our Premier will need our prayers and support. We came from a long journey of trying to recover the economy after ppm was in power. Let us remember that whatever happens, we will stand side-by-side to look out for each other. We are outnumbered but we are strong when we admit our mistakes and stand together. Above all, let us put away the blame games.
Clearly you support all the lavish spending the Premier does with the public purse and how he has handed Cayman over on a plate to some businesses, not to mention that since Mr Bush has been in power our country has suffered considerably (and we all know this is not the first time) – perhaps almost to the point of not return. If you are Caymanian, as I am, and care about your future and that of your children and grandchildren etc – please research a little deaper about how Mr Bush has "managed" this country in his current term. After you have done that, and you really still support him – then all I can say is that I hope to god you are the minority – because if not, Cayman is seriously in trouble.
The PPM did not make a mess of the economy – I believe they were simply trying to clear up the mess Mack left them!
Personally, I would like to see neither the PPM and/or UDP run our country as they have done terrible jobs at it in the past/present!
What bothers me the most about this, is the fact that this is so discriminating towards expats. Why are we the only ones to take on the responsibility of the government's debt when we don't even vote and elect the "leaders" who are the ones drowning this island in debt… If they want to fix their little islands problems, EVERYBODY should be in the same boat…Now, are we really going to see any changes with the gov. charging us more, or is this going to be just MORE money in their pockets?!?!?
Why not apply this to Government contracted expats also. How much more discriminatory can you get? I also assume that those in the new "Special Economic Zone" will be exempt, and Shetty, and will Dart's people have some kind of exemption on this also?
Mr. Bush, you have totally lost it. Once again you will not get my vote next time around.
Note that once again, the government refuses to eat it's own dog food.
Tax the private sector expats but not the expat civil servants. What hypocracy.
I'm a successful entrepreneur myself and this is ridiculous. This opens the door for a discrimination lawsuit. Expats only.
Just join by clicking " Like".
LOL
McKeeva, if I was you, I would take the money I make from that tax, and put it straight way into the cruise berthing facility so ships can come here alot easier. Many businesses in town suffering because tourist are not arriving like they should. The other MLA s should chip in and render there support instead of tearing down government efforts.
If I was Mckeeva i would haul ass and leave you fools here to suffer, Una too ungrateful una dont see the man trying!!
Yeah he trying alright – VERY trying.
We would have never had to reach to this, but after PPM's spending spree in walmart in 08 and UDP's nation building to the pastors, we are in a mess. The uk will jsut make it harder for us pressuring the premier to make these 11th hour decisions for the island. And I'm sure Mr. talk Alden can do better
but after PPM's spending spree
———————————————————-
The UDP hasn't reduced spending, they remain on the same spree.
This new proposed legislation is ridiculous. The government should learn how to manage their budget better considering all the tourism, immigration fees, filing fees. Just saying…
Time for a change!
Also, this opens the door for a possible lawsuit for discrimination if you ask me.
Please say this is not so!!!
I am sick and ill about this. Mac, you are a moron and I hope you get jail time for ruining this country.
Bermuda is ready to take all our business and expats.
Well if the "community enhancement fee" is anything like the "Nation Building Fund" that will be millions for the Cayman Churches (the "good" Christian ones).
So…….Take 10% of expat wages and give it to the Churches
Basically, in exchange for all the duty on goods, work permit fees and now the proposed direct taxation expats get no rights, can not vote, no health services etc and will also be forced to indirectly TITHE to churches they don't even belong to.
Taxation without representation + forced religious practice (+ a leader who dictates how elections will be run) ……. no wonder Mac thinks this isa good idea, it worked well in the Middle East for many years!
Immediate call for 3rd Party Assembly. All top brass and respected leaders should assemble to form a third party as Cayman is no longer represented by people who have the nations (not just Caymanians) interests at heart. We can find a way that these leaders would be able to retain their current postions. Remember this is a country of 60,000 and not a nation of 100 million like both other parties would want you to believe. The country no longer has effective government and is run by failed business men turned career politiicans. Both parties are to blame as are we the passive electorite who have been led to believe we must vote in grafters and favour mongers. The silent majority should stand up and no longer tolerate such utter incompetance.
Everyone needs to see that he would rather take us down the road to direct taxation rather than have his buddy from the Ritz pay the millions that our treasury is owed. I wonder why he doesn't want anyone to go after that money????
Exactly, the government waste millions in mismanagement and they now want to have the expats pay for it.
In time, this extra revenue will be all wasted just like the rest of the government revenues. They will then be asking for more, but the next time it will be from Caymanians as well.
What a great way to run this place.
So all those who vote don't have to pay tax, and all those who pay tax are not allowed to vote.
Genius.
We all pay taxes, but they are indirect.
The choice was clear – reduce waste in government including the personal servants for the politicians and the luxury travel for politicians and cronies or introduce a new tax.
The Premier offered a budget to the UK, they refuse it and said they wanted more CUTS, so now Premier is thinking smart. Okay, you want me to give you a budget to make more cuts on Caymanians, I will show you CUTS. So he gives them what they always wanted to see, a TAX, but to their surprise a tax on all of the foreignors that come here. Got to hand it to Bush, he not only win referendums, clever, and de boss, but he sure as hell will look out for his Caymanian and West Bay district!
That may or may not be true but if this legislation becomes reality, people leave and the deficit will continue to increase.
Great job Mac. The expats claim caymanians dont want to work, so since they do and are so much better than we are then you are correct let them pay for reaping the benefits of our sun, sand and money.
Our hardworking caymanians of the past worked to get cayman this way for us and they treat us like idiots well since they are the smarter ones they should pay.
Now they complain, but when educated caymanians complain they laugh at us!! Best move you done in 3 years mac! You got my vote in 2013!!
This explains the anti-expat rants I heard last week whent he UDP took to the road and had a meeting in Bodden Town. I wondered why Julie was cussing about the expants so much.
Isn't this simply racial discrimination? In any civilised first world society it certainly wouyld be seen as that.
I didn't realize that expats were a race…
Expats comprise a whole set of races, multiple discrimination at once.
This is what happens to the Natives when they open their arms to ungrateful people to come in here and rape our country of everything, we should have had many many requirements put in place to avoid all of this, Expats and Politicians should have term limits 4 years max for both to live and work here and for holding office, plain and simple.
The word "expat" fool doesn't mean "race"
Lawsuit!
You are so very right, and it's gotten a whole lot worst since expats came here treating their Caymanian host like some dog begging for a bone, but you know what this is what happens when equality is not for everyone….
Expats catch the breaks and caymanians don't no sweat off the expats back,
Caymanians catch a break and all hell breaks loose…..
EQUALITY!!!!
There are a few possible outcomes to this:
1) It is merely a political ploy to secure an election win next year- as one poster put it- a very strategic tactical move the spin master himself
2) Businesses increase expat wages by 10%. Not realistic as it will increase their cost of doing business, but it could happen in some cases
3) A certain number of expats leave. Some on the principal of unfairness, others because the total cost of living elsewhere is comparable when this 10% tax is taken in to account. Many will stay because they moved for lifestyle not money (there are more of these folks than most realize).
4) The divide between expats and Caymanians will deepen. When an expat is met with indifference at the service counter, they will likely be more inclined to confront the indifference when they are paying direct taxes as opposed to indirect taxes.
5) Many expats in the professional fields chose to move to Cayman, but not because they had to nor needed the money. These are the most likely ones to leave. They will be replaced by more expats of the type who 'need' a job. The recruiting companies should be the first to notice any trends in this situation.
6) Caymanians will be next to be taxed if this initial tax sticks.
Mac took the easy way out on this one. He knew it was politically incorrect to reduce the bloated civil service and implement the necessary austerity measures. He chose the lesser of two evils.
Anyone know of any other BOT or country who taxes the immigrant/expat differently than than citizen?
Give all expats status, then they don't pay the tax, then they vote McKeeva out!:)
As for point 2 – just then charge Caymanians more for goods and services than expats
This shortsighed Government have given no thought to the huge number of new staff who will be required to keep track of all this taxation – just another 'bloat' to all of us with even more overpaid civil servants!!
Well, at least they don’t need to hire anymore employees. They have such bloated numbers of servants on service !!!!
Clearly the tax was levied on expats because Mckeeva need to win the next election. When he have won every one will be paying tax as well. Private sector expats, dont worry your self about such nonsense of 10% tax. I can tell you from a legal point of view it CANNOT be implemented. So dont get over acted. Mckeeva or Cayman Isalnds cannot do that, I gurantee you. And I know England will turn it down. Its not legal. Not the way he intends to bring it in.
lol.. welcome to the world of politicians, bubba!
I truly wish this had come out before I closed on my property a few months ago. I would def never have bought property on this island. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. When businesses pack up and leave (and they will) – will McKeeva get Dart to hire them all?
Only if they areUDP supporters.
alden, can we use your multi-million dollar school for a tax haven?… it cant be that costly to live there, can it?
Anything to change the subject from Bush's incompetence in handling the country's finances.
People, relax. Like everything else this man said before ( drilling, cargo port etc. etc) it is not going to materialize. There is no legal basis for such a discrimination.
Since when has a legal basis been required for anything this government announces or does?
CUC Press Release:
The current island wide power outage has also affected MacKeeva, whose brain is wired to the grid. Once the generator is turned back on at our WB plant all will be restored.
Stop calling it a 10% tax!! It is only 10% if your employer pays 5%, otherwise you have to pay 15%. So either way, the tax is 15%!!!!
OK, you can never balance your budget, you try to entice foreign investment, you say you have to compete for investments, yet you turn around and now introduce payroll taxation for expats only. Watch out Cayman – expats today, Caymanians next time the budget cannot be balanced, of before, if we experience the "shortfalls in revenue" which surely will come now that you have introduced PAYE!!
What I don't get is, a "community enhancement fee" to be paid by expats only. Yet, those same expats will not get to enjoy the newly enhanced community as they will soon get the boot. Really, if one employee pays tax, all employees pay tax, including the civil servants! But I guess that would hurt big Macs pocket.
Well there goes Shetty, Cruise Berthing Facility, Dart Deals to generate the economy. Happy now Opposition?! So much time wasted on opposing UDP and so little cooperation in creating revenue, jobs, and business on the island. You guys opposed every development idea there was. Happy now?!
Ummmmm, last time i checked Mac and the UDP stopped the development of the cruise ship piers (and cost the country milllions for breach of contract), breached contracts with developers of the schools (and have yet to pay over millions), paid Cohen for breach, handed out millions to their local church, have failed to cut any expenditure what so ever, continue to spend money we do not have, cannot balance a budget or get their finances in order, are led by a guy under 3 criminal investigations, constantly lie to the Caymanian people (i dont think they know the meaninig of the word truth) and have not got one single project off the grond to date.
Yes the PPM put us in debt but the UDP have trebled that and put us on the doorstep of the UK for takeover.
Where do you live?Do you follow the news at all?
And now with this measure there will be an exodus of expats, more unemployement and crime, no investments and a rapid decline into oblivion.
And you will still blame the PPM and praise Mac.
You need help.
lol. You are the blaming the OPPOSITION for this? The govt. is responsible for this. Bush failed to take any steps to reduce substantially reduce expenditure (but in fact incurred more by breaching contracts) and claimed he had a $25m surplus last year. This has to do with his own incompetence.
You are a mental case. This is your beloved Premier doing this no one else.
CUT THE DAMN CS DOWN. We are not talk about throwing employees out on the street we are talking about NO GRANTING PERMITS but moving CS employees into private sector jobs.
So before you go bashing. THINK!!!
Everything and everyone has said CS staff is too large. We need more automation around the CIG in Immigration, Customs, Vehicle Licensing, Hospital Cashiers all around CIG we can find systems to put in place to remove 30%-50% of the process if not more.
NO Government just has the balls to do it. They fear loosing their jobs come election time not realising loosing ones job is far better than the country ALL HAVING TO PAY TAXES!!!
Miller Shaw said so. Everyone in private sector is saying so even some CS people are now saying so. UDP—-PPM GROW SOME HAIRY ONES and do what is needed to be done.
TAXES is not the answer. TAXES only lead to more TAXES and only lead to MORE WASTE.
Give a man $50 more and he'll find a way to spend $49.99 of it on stupidness.
Fix the leaks beforeyou even think about taxes.
UDP YOU ARE A COMPLETE AND UTTER FAILURE!!!
How can you possibly blame PPM for this when you claimed you FIXED THE PROBLEM AND HAD A $25 Million surplus before. If you FIXED IT how can you scream any longer about what they did.
ALL IT EVER WAS WAS AN EXCUSE. UDP IS AN UTTER FAILURE!!!!
None of the Chinese working on the piers will be making $20K per annum. Shetty's doctors are not likely to make $20K per annum either. In any event, the ForCaymanAlliance agreement and the Shetty agreement both probably exempt them from any government imposed taxes for the next 100 years.
The moral of the story? Scratch Mac's back and he will see to it that your's is not bitten or stabbed in the general mayhem.
I understand the UK want good governance and fical management in the Cayman Islands, but what I don't understand is stern measures of imposing tax on a society. Cayman is too small, we rely on foreign investors to make a living, you can not treat us like you treat England and tax the people over there.
The problem is the UDP has painted us into this corner by not managing the economy and Govt. They constantly blame everything on the PPM but they fail to acknowledge that they are responsible for everything that has transpired in the past 3 years and the administration prior to the PPM. They simply are out of their depth and this fatal blow to our economy is the final straw. The UK forced their hand simply because they refused to follow the frameworks and rules they signed up to and are basically running rampant abusing the Nation building fund, paying settlements, racking up crazy travel bills, adding to the cost fo the schools, but not one single capital project has materialized. I wonder if Shetty and the Enterprise City people are happy with this development. or will they now pull out? PS. We still have no Cruise Berthing Facility and probably wont get one. The only person that can be Happy about this development is DART! He is Caymanian so he doesnt have to pay 10%
When I left Cayman my income doubled and I started paying 30% in taxes, and I receive all the wonderful services that society offers in regular first-world economies for those taxes. Those who can do the math, I'll see you over here. Those who can't do the math, you can ognore this post.
"The independent member for North side, Ezzard Miller, pointed out that the premier had just spent the last three years amending immigration laws to attract this type of person and now, in an ironic twist, he was about to drive them all away ." And in an ironic twist Ezzard appears to defend the Caymanian, but jumps on the Expat's side. :o))
Do you understand that it is in the best interest of the Caymanian to have expats here on island since they do boost the economy in so many ways?
Someone has to pay for the millions wasted/stolen by Cayman Government employees-the most underworked and overpaid in the world. Who else if not expats? So the stealing/wasting can continue.
I am the child of an American and a Caymanian. All of my life I have been torn listening to my Island grandmother curse the expats and listen to my expat family complain about the caymanians. This needs to stop!!
We are all human, there will be good and bad wherever you may go in the world, but what the "Premier" did will only create more tension in our society and make young men and women in the working world like myself decide which side to take.
I personally don't want to take any side at all! The last time I checked we were all still humans and for a country so wrapped up in a religion like Christianity and the whole"love thy neighbor as thy self" thing they taught us in school isn't being applied.
We call this paradise for the look of the place, so can we please also call it paradise for unity of it?
I am with you! Just one comment- this place is not a Paradize. It is on the verge of ecological disaster. The BIG DUMP is a ticking time bomb. Neverending spraying against mosquitos is not as harmeles as one would think. So many locals get diagnosed with cancer. So many people have allergies of unknown origin…Nobody drinks tap water, despite claims that is safe to drink.
Whenever countries introduce a new tax it is always later widened & increased, so eventually we will all (except for Dart & other mega-rich people obviously) pay it, & pay a lot of it. 10% on Expats is just the start. As they leave, the rate will go up & more people will be taxed. Mr Dart please bail out the country so direct taxes are not required; or, Sensible People please run this country & cut spending, waste, incompetence & corruption.
Anon 15:39-
I agree with everything you said, exept for "Mr. Dart please bail out the country so direct taxes are not required".
Like he "bailed out" Greece and Argentina? No, thanks. Google it if this is new information.
Otherwise, I think your post was spot on.
Well done MAC.
They pay way more than 10% in their homeland anyway. We will see now who really have Cayman best interests at heart.
Why do they even discuss work-permit fees when their employers pay them.
They come here and expect and demand the best but do not want to pay their way.
They will complain because their free ride is over mate.
You are obvisously not in tune with world affairs. Proportionately it will be one of thehighest tax in the western hemisphere. Check your facts
if no expats in cayman, most caymanian will be cleaning toilets.
Are you really that ignorant and obtuse?! It's no wonder we need so many expats to work here if we have Caymanians with the intelligence level of a door stop writing posts like this.
And your free ride continues! lol!
Free ride? I pay for everything I get here and so does every other expat on this island. At least in other countries with taxes you get something out of it. ie. education, health care etc.
Let me know where the free stuff is!
Yeah We pay more in our own countries, but the cost of living is 50% less in our countries, and the tax we pay in our own countries go towards benefits of us/everyone, in this case, we will be paying tax because the people running the country don’t know how to budget or cut expenses, that tax will go right to the waste basket,
Then when most of the expats leave cause its just not affordable to live here anymore, and next year you the Caymanians have to pay the tax, i bet you will feel great
We will see who has Caymans best interest at heart? my friend your own people don’t have Caymans best interest at heartI
So short sighted, and this short sightedness will be the end of Cayman
FYI in my home country where i pay tax, education is totally free, there is no duties on computer equipment, etc.
See you later, i leave September.
Bye
What a total idiotic post. What a tool. Expats pay more than any Caymanians in duties etc and their employers pay the permit fees. What do you pay? Not alot. Just keep pushing out kids without the money to care for them and they end up robbing places and people.
We wouldn't mind paying tax to have Cayman's interest at heart, but it would be absolutely throwing our money away as the government cannot budget properly. Plus why should we pay tax to country that doesn't want expats. Some will stay for the lifestyle, but this is going to sour a lot of expats and they will leave. We left and haven't regretted one day. We still own a home there and look forward to vacations, but that is all.
If there is a need for the implementation of a "Payroll" or "Income" Tax in the country, It is not beyond reason that those who will NOT be paying the tax will most likely be neutral or in agreement on the subject. While those that WILL be paying the tax will be less than pleased. I do not think that a more "divisive" subject matter could have been raised by the Premeir on the day the island lost all power……! Is there a hidden meaning in there somewhere?
Mac has all the power we lost it when his Puppet MLA's who are testicularly challenged decided to blindly do what they are told by Mac. Not standing up for what is right for the people.
Gentleman and Lady, It is not too late to "grow a pair" and put in you own vote of No Confidence now and stop all this before it is too late.
PS. Governor, I would give them a week to do this and if they don't it is time to step in. I cannot see how the UK could support a discriminatory tax like this. And yes I am Caymanian.
so i've to sit in my office (I'm the only expat in a team of 7) and know that I'm now being paid 10% less than I was last week while everyone else is getting the same. ludicrous, I understand what some people are saying that 10% isnt a lot etc but the fact is it is a lot when its being imposed on a salary that you already earn instead of you agreeing to that tax when you accept a job.
Did you really expect better from a person who barely has a high school diploma?
Expats aren't the only people being driven away by this outrageous government (and when I say government, I mean Mr. Bush because it seems as if no one else makes any final decisions). Young Caymanians who are fed up with this nonsense will be leaving too…
Barely has a high school diploma ? You are – sir/madam, a Master of Understatement.
I am an immigrant, I work here for a living. I am not an expat. Expats live on retirement income in foreign countries.
Today I woke up to an island wide power cut. No problem, I thought, I'll have a refreshing cold shower while the monopoly electricity supplier works out how to take the frog out of the wires. I'll go to work, where I work for a living and deal with the day. I didn't stop to wonder how the whole island could be power free. Not till I got to work.
Work was dark. Dark and hot. Everyone was there, Caymanians and immigrants alike (we all work for a living there). 'Don't worry', said CUC, 'we'll have you light and cool in no time'.
2pm and no power. No power means not only that I'm smelling choice, hot, frustrated and unable to work in our computer oriented world, but that I'm losing money. We're all losing money as we can't work. We can't service clients, we can't do anything. Nothing. How can this be happening in this place? I work in the middle of GT.
I'm sent home, where my premium cost electricity is flowing. I fire up CNS to find out when I can get back to work to start earning my living again. Haha bobo, no power news but we're gonna tax your income now. Just yours, immigrant, not anyone else's.
Turning to the fridge for some sustenance I find the salad I bought on Saturday has grown mould. Feeling fragile, I wonder about a cocktail. No go, Saturday's lemons are wearing a grey coat of mould too.
I can't eat mould. I can't drink. I can't work to earn my living. I am discriminated against and to be taxed.
This is a war of attrition and I have lost the will to fight.
Also, do we get a discount on the next CUC bill as a result of this power cut?
Very well said. Just want to ask- this is an allegedly a Christian country. How come so much hatred? What do they teach you in churches? Why do you hate us so much? Cayman kind? I hear many proudly say about "people and culture"? What people, what culture?
We clean your beaches, walk your stray dogs, buy raffle tickets sold by your kids, volunteer for a hospice, donate blood, trying to implement recycling to keep your island clean.
I am very respectrful of Caymanian people. I am here working 1/2 year 12 hours a day. I am here to help my 2 kids in US to get through college.
Sounds like my day. Shocking. Losing the will to live
Very well written. Congatulations.
Wow Mr. Bush, let's create even more of a divide than there already is! This is not only discriminatory it is downright offensive. If you are going to tax, tax everyone and I mean EVERYONE. Hold on, you would have to declare what you earn then – right?
Mind you can we declare what we earn AFTER deductions? Once I have paid CUC, water, school fees, $4 for a loaf of bread, gas, insurance, health insurance, pension, phone, internet, etc. I a left with a fat lot of nothing – the real tax here is the cost of living perhaps the Government does not realise this!
10% tax rate
5% pension
it is 20% more expensive to live here and feed yourself
total 35% is the true cost of being here, I like sea and sun but not that much
This is an underestimate.
The true cost will be closer to 40-50%.
Speaking of Sea & Sun – Next Big Mac will charge an admission fee to the beaches to EVERYONE.
This is soooooooo embarrassingly stupid I am flabbergasted!!!! As a Caymanian I cannot understand the few of us who do feel they should not pay their own way. Where is this coming from?? Are you kidding me what kind of backwards way of thinking "oh we are in a mess because of our flagrant overspending and lack of any bloody foresight, oooh lets tax work permit holders." Jesus enough of this BS already. I cannot believed this got out of the meeting to hit the news this shite should have been shut down immediately and never seen the light of day.
If you think we can't balance our budget now try so implement this absolutely horrendous biased crap! Reduce the d!m expenditure on the civil service!!! Have them pay their own way like the rest of us, they have to pay for their HI and pension. I guarantee you they will prefer a cut in salary versus no salary with the way things are headed!!
We cannot generate $500M+ in revenues from 20,000 Caymanians only!!!!
Can someone anyone with a shred of sense in the LA pull Mckeeva aside and talk some sense into him before he completely destroys this place.
I wouldn't get too worked up about it, he probably needs a plus in the income column to get the budget through the UK's oversight, he's just given them what they asked for – taxation. My reckoning is that he's using this just to get to the next election in the vain hope he can grab another 4 years. He's run out of options, if he cuts spending he has effectively guaranteed he won't get elected as those cuts will be the electoral base, this taxing expats idea will fill a temporary hole – it's the last role of the dice – it's a dangerous game to play if he manages to alienate the whole expat community who make plans to leave before it gets implemented (or not implemented). I have to assume its all just a big lie to the UK Government just to get the budget through and that he's hoping the economy turns around before he would actually have to implement it.
Of course he might end up thinking its a good idea and go ahead an implement it.
Will expats really leave if this is passed? And if so, what leads anyone to believe that there will not be someone else ready to fill his or her shoes? After all global unemployment is up, and markets are saturated with professionals, especially in the finance field. I think you will find many willing to settle with a 10% cut rather than 100%.
Having said this, I too believe this cut should include everyone.
Income is down and costs are up.
Can you afford to lose 10% of your monthly income?
Can anyone?
20K is not a lot of money – $1666.66 per month
Do you think someone earning that or lets round up to 2k per month can afford to have $200 "cut" form their income?
Just how much money do you think food service workers earn? Grocery store clerks? Sales people? Helpers? I can go on and on…
This tax will not just tax those who can "afford" it – it will tax those who cannot.
The good ones will leave; you know, the productive ones who are valuable to employers anywhere in the world.
Exactly right. The best & brightest of any industry are always in demand. Last one out ask if the lights work…
Of course they will leave, why should they pay for your kids education?
So Big Mac says sure thing! And now a 10% “community enhancement fee” to be paid by expats.Say goodbye to expats, say hello to empty rental units, say goodbye to income from work permits.
Seriously it has gone beyond belief. I am Caymanian. I am in the private sector. I was in the tourism industry. I did not see Caymanians beating down my door to work in the industry because it involves having to work shift work, holidays, weekends and does not involve air conditioned offices. No right thinking Caymanian employer would pay the huge work permit fees, go through all the hoops and everything else if they could attract Caymanian employees, but they can't. I once spent over $3,000 in advertising to try and attract Caymanians as the ad said only Caymanians could apply and the ads ran for over two months every week, the wages and benefits were competitive, in fact better, and not a single Caymanian applied. I shut my business down and took another post in the private sector. Again as I watch my employer try to attract Caymanians it is almost impossible to get any response.
I do not want to see anyone pay taxes. I want to see the Government workers to have to pay their fair share and for all of the pork to be eliminated. If you are going to charge a tax then make all people pay but be assured you have just killed us Caymanians as well when you do this. I have a voice and I have a vote and it counts just as much as someone working for government so government workers be put on notice you will have to start paying for part of your health insurance and pension and all the rest and learn to live within your budget and not fly off to Miami every long weekend and spend your money there.
I am so sad to see my country take a path that will simply and utterly kill it. And they are right as a Caymanian I do have other options, look out EU here I come!
What a joke. Just wait for the exodus. Nobody in their right mind will live here and pay the “taxed” rates we do for goods and services AND pay an income tax as well.
Cut the size of the government and reduce spending.
I’d like to see the entry stamps in the Premiers passport just to China and the total cost of those trips paid for by the people.
Ithink any 5th grader could easily identify some of the over-spending and waste the people of these islands pay for.
This is a “pure play” move by Mr. Bush. He is a politician at heart and this is a very strategic political positioning, sort like a chess move. Oh he is good, he is tactician, brilliant tactical political move.
I admire his role playing, he is building alliances and serving the Opposition and Mr. Miller a “hot potato”, if they catch it, they get burn and if the drop it, they get blame.
By nature the Opposition and Mr. Miller always oppose whatever Mr. Bush puts forth, there he is using it against them to galvanize support for the next election.
If they agree with him for the first time, this will help to unite the people, strengthen Mr. Bush’s base, paint Mr. Bush as a man of the Cayman people who has their back.
If they do not support this, then it will come across that they are in favor of the Expat at the expense on the Caymanians. This will only serve to bolster Mr. Bushes support and base even further.
This is what I call “Check” and depending on the Opposition and Mr. Millers move it could be “Mate” It will be interested to see how they respond.
From a political stand point one has to admire is tactical maneuvering. It is politics folks!!
This will not get off the ground; it only serves to stir up controversies, throwing a wrench in the spook. The legislation and frame work does, not exist for this type of taxation.
From an economical view, it would be very, very bad for the Cayman Islands and I would not be in favor. This would be the beginning of the end.
“Take it easy” as my Jamaican friends would say. Don’t go selling your house just yet
I am Caymanian and I am NOT "anti-expat". Dear Hon. McKeeva Bush, please DO NOT REPRESENT ME AS SUCH. I say NO to this ridiculous proposal!! I, along with many others I assume, am apprehensive to say the least as to the next idea that pops out of the UDP's magician's hat.
Lemme get this straight – he says "no" to one man one vote, but "yes" to 9 district voting. He says "no" to logical budget cuts to decrease the deficit, but "yes" to direct taxation of expats??? All the expats will leave, and then where will Cayman be??? Don't ever even FOOL yourself into thinking Caymanians can do it all by themselves. The expats are crucial to our economy the same way all the flaura and fauna of the coral reefs are crucial to a thriving, biodiverse sea life.
I am Caymanian and I say NO! Petition and referendum time, and this time the people will be heard! I have my pen out and I'm ready to save this country.
Well I'm sure we all know what is next… right?
Caymanians are going to start getting taxed too… it may be less than 10%, maybe 5%?
But I'm sure we all know that it's coming. Be real and accept it, nothing we can do now.
As a Caymanian I have to wonder if this is meant to scare us and let us remember, since we can vote and we will be taxed, not foreign workers? Or, if he really does go ahead and tax foreigners will he then have to change constitution to make them eligible to vote?
I’m a Caymanian with a few centuries of Caymanian ancestors behind me and I’m scared to death of what this man and his ideas are doing to our country. Expats today, Caymanians after the elections.
Who does he think he is? The Sheriff of Nottingham?
Unfortunately Cayman has no Robin Hood, only “teefs” who rob the bank on the last Thursday of the month and then most likely “teef off” an expensive motor boat for a one ticket out of here.
Dear God what have we come to?!!
What a sad, sad state of affairs our country has come to. The dichotomy between expats and caymanians will reach an all time low if this law is passed. It's s shame to see such a beautiful country fall into the hands of people who have no apathy and common sense. Makes you wonder what this place will be like in 10 years….better join the gun club and get yourself a permit. This place will soon be overun with hatred and prejudice.
The 2 party-system and a Cayman divided has caused us to reach to this point of our history. The Bible says a house divided against itself will fall – http://www.cayman27.com.ky/2012/07/24/big-story-taxation-concerns-discussed
We know businesses will end up paying for this. Announcing this contemplated measure prematurely and creating panic in smaller businesses already struggling for survival, is like a cruel joke on top of increased work permit costs and other government fees.
I thought one of the conditions making tax "havens" possible is the idea of 'dual criminality' or in other words since there are no tax laws in Cayman, there are none to break. If it becomes illegal here to not pay taxes does it not open the door to extradition of high net worth foreign nationals seeking residency who may have broken a tax law in their own country however are immune since an equivalent law does not exist here? This problem that might be more perceived than real but could cause capital to leave Cayman. This is a question – maybe someone from the legal community can comment.
Community Enhancement Fee
If McKeeva is really interested in enhancing the community the quickest and best thing that he could do is vacate the community. Move to the Dominican Republic and share a house with Misick. I hear it is a comfortable place for ex-dictators.
Time to pack up and leave. This is the next Bahamas. Sheer, blinding incompetence. And yes, I’m sure there are plenty of Caymanians who’ll rejoice at one less expat. I’ll simply invite them to speak to the 22 Caymanians I presently employ and who will be made redundant.
This is blatant discrimination and contrary to human rights. And if Govt really is thinking of expropriating employers’ and their expat employees’ pension contributions to date, that’s theft.
2009 – PPM government spent like there was no tomorrow, leaving us with a void so void that we didn't know how much we lost (no auditing)
2010 – UDP was instructed by the UK to in three years time balance the budget of these islands, or be taxed
2011 – UDP made surpluses and it all vanished away over time. Promised deals to kick back the economy, but saw no deals started
2012 – UDP continues to spend and seek to borrow, but the UK refuse to allow them to borrow. They then were to produce a budget, but drag their feet and no budget, because they have nothing to show.
TODAY – This government inherited a national debt and dragged their feet, not meeting up to the UK's requirements. So if its not full british rule we are looking at, its full financial rule by them, and that is why McKeeva has to implement a TAX in order to avoid more loss to our financial independence.
HERE IS YOUR SUM! NOW, WHAT HAVE WE LEARNT?
F**k it.
I'm just not going to pay it. Simple as that.
I'll make the accounts look like I'm only earning 20k a year, process the rest of it in expenses and pay nothing in tax.
Who needs some help with creative accounting?
I was looking to buy a home here, but now have changed my mind. I cannot invest in such a corrupt, mismanaged place where the Govt goes from one blunder to another and nothing happens about it. If I am to get a 10% cut I will do less work. I am going to look for jobs elsewhere. I love this country and it’s people, but not the official buffoons. I will now just be here to get my pay and spend it elsewhere.
Me too, but I am not looking to invest my money in property here any longer! And while I am at it, my charitable giving to various local organizations will take a hit to come up with the 10% tax that I now face.
If they did this for everyone it wouldn't be so bad. But this is like saying only women, people with red hair, those who were born in the months of January & February….I can't wait for the discrimination lawsuits to start. With all the law offices here, it won't be long I would imagine…
Don’tbelieve this people, Human Rights laws will not allow only expats to be taxed….This is just a mother rumor started for political reason.
Mac, did you clear this with Dart? I can't believe he would give you permission to do this.
Mac was the one that spent our money during the OMOV campaign talking about we should not cause move division in Cayman. This will clearly cause the largest divide in the history of our country. We already have to much Us/Them, Caymanian/Expat division. This will just cause divide to become greater this is very dangerous.
Oh well they say change is good so whats all the bricking is about now the people on the Island wanted CHANGE there you go, !!!!!!!!!!!!BIG CHANGE!!!!!!! we are force to to pay health insurance, when we go to the doctors most of them do not except the insurance card you have to pay up front they say then cliam back 100% of the time you get no money back. (double charge nobody said or did nothing) Pension we are forced to pay 5% pension, then the companies invest our money we loss again becasue if the market losses we pay the concequience their again. now TAXES 10% start for the Expat three months later the Caymanian will have to pay 5%. LOL what a JOKE
Remember the East End port, big demonstrations, oh Ok the hospital is fine then
10% tax, there will be all hell breaking out, oh Ok 5% is fine then
If mac is such an uneducated idiot what does that make us?
Golly gee. I hope they are as serious and efficient about collecting it as they are about the pensions.
Lordy Lordy UDP finally got some balls…..
Cayman should start preparing for dooms day, as it seems to be coming sooner than expected. Once the ex-pats are all gone, who is left to fill the 40,000+ jobs that we do? No one!! There will be a economic collapse, no one will be able to afford the high cost of living and people will flee. Meanwhile McKeeva and his "crew" will be sailing away on a luxury yacht with no consequence to his actions.
the companies will leave and take the jobs with them. What will be left is Caymanians with no jobs .. and no companies to offer jobs to them.
The crying and wailing now is so terrible eh pay your 10% and hush. You dont like it the airport has aleast 6 flights a day. Those planning to leave keep dreaming no place else will put up with what you are getting away with here. 10% is a nice round figure kudos to the government. Come on haters big me up now
so why don't you pay it as well?
Its 15%
Dumbass
So, will introducing a tax mean better financial management of Government spending? Lack of funds is not the problem, it's how the public funds are managed that is the issue. With all the Accountants on this island surely we can find a decent one!
As for those saying expats from the UK are used to paying tax, yes we are, we are also used to receiving free healthcare, public services, legal aid, libraries etc as a result! This will inevitably be a downhill slope and tax will be introduced to all citizens regardless of nationality, if the way the money is managed is the same, it will just be thrown into the same big hole, never to be seen again.
Everyone is focusing on the negative here, what about all the exciting things that will come in terms of community enhancement. 10% is a tough hit, but if it means the community is enhanced I for one and am willing to buck up!
He Hath Floundered it Upon The Seas………………………………………………………..
So then businesses start paying expats 10% more than Caymanians for the same work. If not, this is going to create even more tension and animosity in the office. Even a minimum of 2% tax across the board would do this country good. I don't see what the problem is with it. A local speaking…
Actually it would need to e a smidgin over 11% to maintain parity…….?
Big MAC bad decision on ur part… remember all them status given out to people, well those same people are EXPATS…u kno wat that means NO VOTES for u in the coming election
The island already has taxation, they are just in different forms. Where do you think import duties go? Where do you think work permit fees go? Living on this island is much more expensive than other places, but it is offset by not paying income tax. It currently comes out as a wash for most people from most countries. Introducing an income tax will actually make this place significantly more expensive to live than other countries. If this were put into place, I would absolutely not be extending my contract. I'll go to Dubai or Switzerland. Say goodbye to the thousands of dollars that I spend every month in this economy that comes from overseas.
Worst. Idea. Ever.
Ooooooooh Yeah feel da heat in unnah draws seat The heathen back dem pan di wall It should be 20% you got my vote Mac its about that time. No more free rides look at these resposes pile up eh????
Its you who is getting the free ride and too stupid to know free rides never last.
There has always been discrimination towards different people in this country – think about it, McKeeva just gave Dart all those concessions while the everyday "joe" has to pay the full duty amounts.
Different taxes for importing your car based on value
Different taxes on registering your car absed on category
Expats have to pay for a fishing licence for shore fishing
Ellio with certain jobs for caymanians
Seems the only time there is an outrage is when it hits someone direct in the pocket!
This is a good strategic move made by the Premier.
**Caymanians First (BOT citizens)**
Keep The Good Ideas Coming Mr. Premier…
Well!!! The Premier is on a roll now. He knows just how to stir up the mood at the bottom of this little pond we live in. I must agree, this is one of his best ideas yet but I would like to know how and by what means will he be able to implement it. We must give him credit, every time he literally screws us true Caymanians over he has a good come back.
Please do develop this new idea because I would love to see the outcome before the general elections come around.
you all provoke Mckeeva till he said enough is enough.
Gullible Caymanians!!!! Stop riding the band wagon…
Why are some Caymanian people so gullible? In the last 20 years how many new government officials have entered parliament. You could count them on one hand. You all are constantly bashing the different parties but have you all stop to realize that at every new election it’s only a change from one side to the next. Every one of them that is in the house is accountable for the position of this little county. They all have a hand in sinking us in debt over the many years.
I personally think that they all need to look in the mirror before they accuse each other of their flaws. It’s high time that they wise up and unite to overcome this financial crisis and stop thinking about their own pockets and what back door deal that they can cut and get away with.
Remember if you push a man’s back to the wall eventually he will retaliate and it’s sad to say but that we as Caymanians will soon have to do. Literally fight to survive in this sea that is infested with great white shares especially the species that Premier is bread form.
This is a good move. Let's celebrate! Possible cuts could include:
No Govt. contributions to private schools, (Private schools should be able to budget from their own funds)
Close private schools which are low in numbers and have a fast turn over of staff.
Close down Govt offices that are non – functional eg. Labour Office
Close all overseas Govt Offices eg. Tourism (save on rental and staff. Computers can do
the same job from the Cayman Islands)
Cut number of staff and vehicles in all departments.
Replace foreign workers with professional Caymanians.
10% contributions should also include Govt staff. and across the board.
Good Luck Cayman. Every country is trying to survive and looking out for their own
people. We need to look outfor our own too.
Yes, I agree (sarcasm, please continue reading) – I agree that this is a wonderful move by the premier to return Cayman to how it was 50 years ago. Yes, I can see it now. Population will decline rapidly as all the expats move out (you don't see any point to them right bro?), all hedge funds and offshore banking will disappear instantaneously (the MAINSTAY of the Caymanian economy, not tourism for SMB bobo) along with your cushy office job, your SUV, your blackberry and your boat. Who needs them banks and expat people right?? We have our seafaring heritage that some of us (namely the people that support this move) are dying to return to.
A couple issues with that though – there is a reason why we do NOT make our living from the sea like our forefathers. It is a difficult, primitive and dangerous life. It takes courage, bravery and years at sea away from your family and country. If that's what you want for Cayman, your children and your grandchildren, then by all means yes this is a successful move for the premier.
You want to kick out the expats to the detriment of the economy? You go right ahead. The REST of us young, educated Caymanians will be fighting back to regain a semblance of our dignity and our country.
to all those EXPATS that loved KeKeKee WA NOW .
Those ones are now exempt Paper Caymanians.
Im a Caymanian and I think this is ridiculous. For one 10% is too much!!!! Second what government body will implement this foolishness! Third, will now be intitled to Status once they live here for the required amount of years? Or will they constantly be kicked out by the rollover policy that doesnt work. This is madness at every angle…..
Caymanians won't find this ridiculous (except for the paper ones), so don't be ridiculous!
I too am a Caymanian and this announcement has signalled the beginning to the end to these islands. PURE MADNESS!!!!
Can someone shed some light on how such blatant discrimination will get around the soon to be enacted Bill of Rights?
Its pretty simple. Exapts do not have rights.
Last one out, turn off the lights. Oh wait, they are off!
Something tells me that in the not too distant future there is going to be a headline about mass permannet residency and status grants……..
Tell that to the Brits prior and after the American Revolution… they still can't get it, and they still will pressure us to impose more taxes, you watchand see
Viva La Revolution
Next year we will have a new public holiday, revolution day, the day to celebrate when expats and Caymanians rose up together to overthrow the tyrant MacBush and banished him from the land. Perhaps we can even tar & feather him….
My understanding is that this tax will be imposed on work permit holders so those who arent on work permit but who arent Caymanian will not be subject to it. This is what happened….Mac looked at the numbers from last week's referendum and realized he is not so popular anymore, not even in his own district. So, he flogs some bastardized form of single member constituencies as an alternative (although he didnt think it a usefule alternative to propose until AFTER the votes were counted). So, the best way to take attention away from his unpopularity and try to lure votes in the upcoming elections is to propose an "anti-expat" initiative which will no doubt cause further divisiveness and will make Caymanians feel he is "for" them. I am a Caymanian and when I lived and worked overseas I paid taxes, but so did everyone else. I don't want my pay taxed (shoot I can't afford to have it taxed is more like it) and I can't support a segregated taxation of work permit holders. What is a community enhancement fee? Whose community will be enhanced and why can't it be done with the funds saved from cutbacks in how lavish our elected members live and travel. They are PUBLIC SERVANTS, they serve us and yet they seek to impose destuctive measures and don't even think twice about cutting back on their own frivolous spending. There is already enough divide between expats and Caymanians, let's call this what it is – a last ditch attempt at convincing Caymanians to vote for him. I am so tired of this leadership. I am a young professional Caymanian and am so embarrassed at the representation we currently have.
Is that so… work permit holders… that means my chances of getting a job! Boy next year I voting for you Mac. I know anyone making 20000 dollars a month will not feel a pinch!
It's $20,000 a year – FOOL!
Community Enhancement according to WB Dictionary:
1. Helping churches who support the UDP
2. Contributions to slush funds
3. Adhoc payments to supporters
4. contriburtions to Nation Building funds
5. Regular foreign travels to the Premier and his supporters and their families
6. Expenses for taking party supporters to Panama, Cuba and other hot destination
I don't care what he says or does….he ain't EVER getting this Caymanian vote again. He is a lunatic and apparantly proud of it. I say we march hand in hand (Caymanians and Expats) to the Governor's front door!!!!
I 100% agree. As another poster a few days ago said, "Young, Caymanian and educated – McKeeva's worst nightmare." Let's hope his nightmare comes true.
What a joke.
If anything it should be Caymanians only, or everybody paying the tax. How long will expats and companies here continue to prop up the Cayman economy?
The only fair way to implement this is to abolish the rollover and workpermit fees with it. If the CI Gov't want expats to pay for their ineptitude they should be awarded with status when they've contributed to the economy over a number of years.
I'm sure I'm not the only one considering my future in Cayman after reading this. The cost of living here is already too high, this tax will make living here unsustainable for many of people.
You sound very upset!!! Why? because you can't get your way all the time?!!! Too bad! If you don't likr it leave!!! I understant that there is some 200 plus students coming back from oversear with BSc Degrees and alomost that with Masters.
They will take your job!
No, they won't.
It's idiots like you that are pushing this country to the precipice.
PPM made it worse for us and UDP seals the death sentence. A massive debt of millions of dollars were unaccounted for back in the last days of PPM, along with the huge ongoing cost burden of the unfinished schools and other over ambitious projects. UDP had 3 years to turn things around after the UK gave them a deadline, but I guess they didn't take the Ax-man seriously enough. For the first time in the history of these Cayman Islands, we fell outside of the agreed ratios, by the PPMs excessive and wasteful spending, and by these two governments failure to pay any attention the country's balance sheet and UK's warnings. McKeeva has to do all he can now to make it easier for us. Hope and pray.
The new form or Rollover has been announced. Make sure the power is on at the airport with extra staff working in immigration as there will be a mass exodus. The Caymanians will also be off to the UK with their passports too as there will be nothing left here soon but turtles! Well done McKeeva Bush, well done!
Whoaaaa!!! McKeeva!! That is such a dangerous road to even contemplate going!!! It will also be seen as devisive, fracturing the established, good relationship that exists between expats and Caymanians. Such a tax would rip out the middle and senior management tiers that support all sectors of Cayman's economy. Businesses WILL close and move elsewhere – and we will have great difficulty replacing them because a) the cost of living here has risen too high and b) the attractions being offered by many other countries now far outweigh the benefits of working in Cayman. Re-think, there are other ways.
Oh Hogwash, you would say that to protect your interest. It's about time someone stood up for Caymanians in this country and let me remind you all that we got about 12,000 new ones since the mass status grants of 2003, so there, they will be benefiting too so stop the moaning and pay your 10% or go live some place else. Someone will come and replace, don't worry none of you are invincible.
I certainly agree. My only hope is that there are enough of us Caymanians that do agree to stand up and demand a difference.
McKeeva is the captian of the ship and I believe he is stirring the ship in the right direction. He made his mistakes, Alden too, but these guys are not immaculate. Left to the British, they will impose measure us like Greece. So I believe he is trying his best to avoid the outcome of what began after PPM spent hundreds of millions of dollars on a metropolis off Frank Sound Rd. You go Captain, people may criticize you now, but I remember what happened in 2008 when we had to elect you over Kurt and Alden!
You are so clueless you think the last election was in 2008. Such is the intelligence of a Mckeeva supporter.
Finally a UDP supporter who admits that the new schools were never just schools but community centres, hurricane shelters, community pools, post-disaster kitchens, night school for adults. It's a bit much calling the Frank Sound school "a metropolis" but maybe you are getting the general idea AT LAST!
The PPM may have overspent badly on the schools but they did not give our country away like Mac is to Dart.
Spelling is important! I am sure you meant steering but you typed Stirring. And that is what this nasty man Bush is doing, trying to stir up hatred between Caymanians and ousiders because that is now his only option. Throughout history, desperate leaders have done it, Hitler against the Jews,and plenty of others. Dont be fooled by this devisive option!
Where the heck is Dick Shaugneary when you neeed him??? "…stirring…"? "…immaculate…"?
"…impose measure us like Greece…"? Oh, the humanity!!!
This is outright discrimination. While one worldly Caymanian spoke out above, most will not, as they know…if not just the expats, it will be them too. They will be complicit in the death of their economy. The answer is not the money in, but the money out…except here the money out is a strong voting block civil service.
expats don't feel so bad i am sure the Caymanians will be getting the same news the day after election
Last I knew, a tax law could not be unilateraly introduced and imposed with out some sort of legislative process. If I am wrong please correct me. If I am correct – the author of this "news" piece ought to apologize for inflamming outrage amongst readers. debate, discussion and then, hopefully putting hte idea to rest is in order here. Mac probably has some kind of VAT envy and wishes to one up T&C.
He's going to blame the FCO and whoever else for 'Having' to bring this in…but lets be frank, the country is based on a flawed system……time has run out, new revenues must be found….simply cutting spending wont cut it anyhow……i'm no fan, but i will offer salutations for him having the courage to be the person who will be ever tainted with having brought clear, direct taxation into Cayman…..HOWEVER…….he's only gone about it totally back-a**wards!!!
guys – you can't simply tax one section of the population…..i'm sure there will be attorneys bringing this to Human Rights, etc, etc…..and its simply not morally right either.
he should've placed a payroll tax on everyone, period…..unless the expats are going to get their own roads? expats already pay a fee to be here, its called the work permit fee (regardless of who pays it, its a levy on expats, a discriminatory levy)
a 100% across the board payroll tax is fair…and it could have been at 5% rather than 10% on only expats with permits…..BTW, what about expats with PR and rtw that still have to apply for work permits, etc, etc???
this is going to be a mess…….it couldve been so simple
where you CAN easily discriminate to protect the voters is to levy a charge on second-homes….it happens everywhere, and the people who own Seven Mile condo's can afford it…and it wont kill the real estate market
what will kill enterprise is a patently discriminatory tax that in all likelihood will create an exodus of persons simply because it is so expensive here already, taking 10% off them may push many over the edge, and even those that it does not will be left thinking -wow, they really dont want us here
and that is disaster.
Let me correct you on one thing. Expats do not pay their own work permit fees to be here (at least they are not supposed to). This story needs to be rectified pronto as I'm also hearing that the 10% fee Gov't is looking will actually be employer/employee pension contributions so technically an expat won't have a pension here.
What other option does the Premier has. He took his budget to the UK, they refuse it because they wanted huge cuts, he tried with revenue creation and dart deals, but the deals will take along time. He has no other choice but to give them what they want. From 2004, since hurricane Ivan our government was warned about spending, borrowing, and more spending. Now we have to deal with this tragedy, thank you Premier, thank you Kurt and Alden… you guys ran things to the ground!
The UK probably suggested Payroll tax – that wouldn't surprise me. But when Mac tries to squarely place the blame on the UK for suggesting it, just remember that there is no way the UK would suggest a discrimatory policy such as this, they would have suggested taxes for all not expats alone. Don't let McKeeva try pass the blame onto them for his stupidity.
Try stop blatantly and irresponsibly spending the public purse like a kid playing with his first credit card, implement the recommendations of the Miller Shaw report, get your financial accounting in order so that you can get a grip on reality when budgeting for the future and try be responsible, that's what they can do (whether UDP or PPM). This madness has got to stop and now.
How about imposing taxes on EVERYONE if you have to impose taxes, instead of running a segregational government policy!
Wow, I didn't realize that there were still people like you out there. Will wonders never cease. Please educate yourself.
Yours,
Young, educated, irate Caymanian
already feel unwelcome here and this has been my home for 6 years. Two years ago i thought about buying property here seriously and making this my home , hopefully permantly. Ya, sorry but no more and this is the last straw. . This government will ruin this country! The minute this is bought in to effect , im packing up my stuff and leaving and taking my investments into this county elsewhere!
And you will be going where?!!! Sure there are many other countries that don't have taxes, but what do thy have..poor infrastructure, over populated, crime. But hey, you don't care about that because you feel you can be isolated from that right?! It won't affect you as you will be able to live in a "private" i.e. no locals community.
And you are from where exactly? Funny, I don't hear too much outcry and threats of revolution by the populas that are from countries that have extremely high tax rates. Yet when this country wants to do it, they require your permission?!!! Whatever. I have alot of good friends who are educated but can't get a job back in Canada. They will be glad to get a break from the cold and earn a better living. So you go, they're waiting….
Canada- no work? Your friends must fall in the same category as the Caymanians who are out of work and simply refuse to work or be retrained.
Plenty of work in Canada. In fact most friends are climbing the ladder very quickly- all professions.
Those who own businesses, (CA's, Engineering Firms, IT, Investment banking, Surveyors, Law, Plumbing, Electrical, Welders cannot find workers. In fact Canada has recently changed the process for hiring foreign workers to expedite the process because there are not enough Canadians to fill the positions- primarily due to the impact of the baby boomers retiring in droves at the same time the economy is ticking along.
So, why are you here then? since you know it to be so "good" in Canada?!!!
Good luck trying to find somewhere that will not tax you!
You obviously have no clue how many tax free jurisdictions are out there, many of which are much more welcoming than here. Fortunately I do, and I'll be on the plane to one of them as soon as this work permit expires. I hope you enjoy paying taxes, when Bush finally realises he can't impose it on expats alone, and has to impose it on all who live here.
Go then, I for one do not care lol.
Even though Cayman is in a bit of a crappy hole. Darn.
Can't say I blame you and if it were not for the fact that I am a Caymanian I'd have the same sentiment. Unfortunately when our beloved Premier opens his mouth most of us cringe just waiting to hear what ABSOLUTE CRAP he will spew. The man should be indicted for idiocy.
Any one interested in buying a 4dbr 3 bathroom house? Willing to give you a great price!
100k….let me know 🙂
101K…. if it's not in West Bay.
I'll go to 50k if it is in WB.
I'll give you 50% of what it was worth yesterday (which was 50% of what it was worth when Mac came to power), and that offer will drop by 5% per month until you can't give the house away. It's Mac-onomics, don't you know?
Go ahead Sir Bush, you wanted to get rid of expats to create jobs for Caymanians? Well, you will surely get your wish when we leave. However, here are a few more things to consider:
No expats also means:
– businesses relocating to cheaper jurisdictions
– losted Import duties
– less spending in local economy
– less rental income for Caymanians renting property
– since no rental income, more Caymanians will lose their homes since they won’t be able to pay their mortgages
– ultimately local businesses suffer and we expats can easily relocate to more expat friendly jurisdictions
Who things about this kind of nonsense? “community enhancement fund” when we are treated like scum/common criminals on this rock? Wow!!!
I say tax everyone, that spells sense. However, with an election on the horizon no chance of that flying.
This is outright discrimination. While one worldly Caymanian spoke out above, most will not, as they know…if not just the expats, it will be them too. They will be complicit in the death of their economy. The answer is not the money in, but the money out…except here the money out is a strong voting block civil service.
I agree with the tax and think it is long overdue. If expats don't want to pay then they can go back to their home to pay 30% taxes or more. Time and time again, expats have left the island complaining only to return within 12 months time or less as life back home (wherever that is) was not as good as the life they had/have in Cayman. Their are other expats more than willing to come to the island to take the jobs vacated by those who leave. Ask any expat who left the last in the two years who are wanting to come back as the jobs back home are are not available or the salary was half of what they made in Cayman, finding it hard to come back due to the tight job market these days. Caymanians are having a hard time finding jobs in their own country as to many expats control the hiring process, bringing in their friends, colleagues friends for postions, setting qualifications to suit their friends, leaving Caymanians who can do the job and willing to do the job not able to be hired. This practice nees to stop with tighter reports to immigration listing who they offered the job to, salary offered, so they can compare the offering being placed on the work permit. I have seen expats who hold jobs even though they call in late, have family issues, however, nothing is said to them. If it happens to a Caymanian, then the company issues warnings to them. It is downright UNFAIR pratices by companies against Caymanians. Caymanins, do yourself a favor and work hard, do a good job, and don't call in sick, being at work and report unfair PRACTICES to the labor board.
Do you charge admission to your fantasy world?
Ahhhh, the classic Caymanian Mythes begin.
You're right. We pay a lot in taxes back home. But we get something for it: services, for one, but also the right to vote. Is the government going to use my money to pay for sidewalks, street cleaning, social services, etc.? Unlikely.
There are huge opportunites for Caymanians here. This bs about expats hiring their friends etc… has to stop.
If a Caymanian is good enough they get the job, end of. If a Caymanian can't find/get a job here it's because of unrealistic expectations, poor interview technique (being late, rudness etc..) or they refuse to do the jobs they feel are below them.
The fact of the matter is, those Caymanians without the attitiude and work ethic problems are in employment and doing very well.
Unfair practices against Caymanians? Don't you mean a sense of victimization when they realise they are actually expected to work and only take sick days when they're actually sick? I could go on…
And for the record, I'm not painting all Caymanians with the same brush here, I know many smart and hardworking people in Cayman… but the attitude problems, especially among the youth, is appalling.
The bottomline line here is that income tax is going to drive people and businesses away from Cayman. Now if you can't see why that's a problem for Cayman (given your mail I suspect that's the case) then you need to invest more thought in it.
I am so tired of being blamed for why Caymanians are unable to find work. How about assuming some responsibility. My parents were not rich by any means, I come from a small island just like Cayman and I went to school full time and worked full time until I got a scholorship to finish my degrees. I graduated with honors and was able to get a job and work my way up. Nobody gave that to me, I woked for it, and so should you. Being Caymanian does not guaranty you anything, with the world's economy being what it is you have to excel in order to survive period.
Also if expats leave bobo, there is no assurance that A) Caymanians will get the vacated positions or B) if those companies will remain in the Cayman Islands. The difference is though, if most expats leave Cayman they will more than likely be able to work somewhere else, but can most Caymanians say the same, what skill sets/certifications/designations do a large segment of your population have, that would make you mobile globally
Take note, do you really think once the door of taxation has been opened it will stop with Expats? I would hope people are smarter than that.
What qualifications? Hell i'll do what all the expats do, falsify my qualifications and get hired, all i need is the internet and a color printer…….. duh!!!
Hell just look at our Police Force 90% expats, previous jobs listed, gardeners, pizza delivery guys, bag boy, BK burger Flippers, KFC chicken fryers, bell men, hell they all stepped up huh???
You think they had actual real certifications??? Really!!
Wow, that list of former jobs sounds like the brain trust running the country
actually, headline salaries here for professionals take into account the salaries in the major source nations. Yes, they have income tax in most of those places but the price of every single thing they buy there is much much lower and the quality and choice much, much greater. It's really a lifestyle choice, whilst it is affordable but there comes a point where economics put people off Cayman
I am an expat. I have Caymanian children whose Caymanian father gives NO FINANCIAL SUPPORT and the courts just do not care. So my expat salary cares for my Caymanian children and now you want to tax me 10%. See McKeeva trying to take the easy way out? UK says "CUT BACK YOUR BUDGET CAYMAN" So Big Mac says sure thing! And now a 10% "community enhancement fee" to be paid by expats. Mac, in your next life you are going to come back as an indentured servant who gets NO PAY. Say goodbye to expats, say hello to empty rental units, say goodbye to income from work permit fees.
REALLLYYYYYYYYYY ?!?!?!?!?!
Perhaps you should pick a better man?…just saying.
I am so glad I got rolled over last year. Life is SO much better for me off island.
Good luck to all those who bought houses. Betting the houseing market is going to be reflecting this TAX
i am glad your life is now so much better. why are you still on CNS?. Move on bobo.
Look bobo, we who have left LIKE to look back. I mean if you left a building and just as you were a safe distance away it then blew up, caught fire, collapsed, fell into a sinkhole, and then blew up again, are you telling me you wouldn't watch bobo? Really bobo? ["If you're gonna catch 'em, you need the right bait".]
But Lot's wife looked back and became a pillar of salt…
You sir. Sound like a tool. Cut your "Cayman Slang" and stop trying to be funny.
Another knee-jerk autocratic statement without consultation with business owners or any sort of private sector discussion. No improvement in Gov't accounting methods or transparency. No adoption of Miller Report recommendations. No disincentive or consequences to a leadership that continues to ignore tender processes and democratic debate.
This is ludicrous to introduce a payroll tax. But Mac was told by the UK to cut spending or they were going to impose this taxation on us. If I remember correctly, this is what the UK suggested to Mac. So without cutting our spending and his lifestyle, he bit that option up to the stinky armpit playing right into their hands. It won't be long before the UK says tax all Cayman Islands people regardless so Mac can borrow more money for projects Cayman does not need.
Employers already lie about what they pay their expatriates on work permit applications. So how are we really going to know if the 10% will be paid on the payroll tax, and not two or five percent?
I can see my employer giving his expats another 10% raise to cover their expenses. Meanwhile, me the token Caymanian, takes a 23% cut in salary to hold onto a job, while the expats get the cars, rent allowance, cell phones and overtime allowances. This is going to bury me down further into the pigsty.
Labour Board I hope you take notice of this!
The UK may have suggested pay roll tax for all, but it most certainly DID NOT suggest further discriminating against Ex Pats by taxing them – that's MadMac's idea.
Thank you mate for being so blunt!
No. this cannot be allowed!
Yesterday I was considering buying property here. Today I am no longer considering it.
An obvious massive revenue-saving measure is to have civil servants contribute to their health insurance and pensions like everyone else. And riddding the civil service of the dead wood that makes up the CS staff. will they do this? Of course not because they represent a huge voting block. Better to tax those that have no vote. I'm embarassed to be Caymanian today.
I'm selling!
Thank You very much sir for leaving us a piece of our own land!
you won't be able to afford to buy it back….
Yeaj because Caymanian land just magically ended up in the expats hands, huh? Nothing to do with some Caymanians selling their birthright!
You'll be needing the coconuts from that land shortly…
I know he's now lost his mind…… why don't you (Preimer) and Juiliana pay back the money you all used to pave those church parking lots in GC and CB. If you all so hard up for money. And yes for all you Caymanians out there wondering (I am a Caymanian too). I totally disagree with this pile of BS he's trying to pull. The expats living here should not be the ones for pay for all the money lost and wastedby our Government. The leaders who wasted it.
If this gets passed, this island will be more $crewed than it is now. God help the Cayman Islands and please take us out of the hands of this selfish and money-loving People who called themselves the leaders of these islands.
Cayman Islands is a sinking ship and Mckeeva will not go down with us. He's going to jump on the first luxury liner passing us by.
I totally agree that the persons who made the decisions and wasted the money should be the first ones to pay it back!!
Between all of the UDP and PPM MLAs, they must be worth about 50million in cash and property – start taking their money and assets before taking from people who had no say whatsoever in the decisions that led us to where we are today!
Enough BS, politicians must be held accountable and made to pay for THEIR own mistakes!
You mean between the UDP MLAs. The PPM, not so much.
You need to check your source of information. There is only ONE MLA UDP or PPM or otherwise who is a millionaire, he came into politics as a gardener. This speaks volumes.
Rubbish, you obviously dont know how to count. Plenty of them are millionaires.
I meant ALL OF THEM! Both parties are responsible for the state of the country now, Ezzard wasnt there before when PPM were in power, and he has no say in the decisons now so he should no tbe held accountable to pay up like the rest.
Go after their assets first. Like the directors of companies, politicians should be held responsible for the decisions they make on behalf of the company called "gowerment"
What about residents who are neither expats on work permits but not Caymanians either…?
the knock-on effect to the cost of living will send this place into economic oblivion……
Will this replace work permit fees or be in addition?
Neither, there will be no ex-pats here if this goes ahead.
MacKeeva has gone absolutely mad. This is going to impact everyone. Higher costs and lower property values. Harder to attract "expat" workers will be a major stumbling block for Cayman.
I am Caymanian – I do NOT support this rubbish! Government spending is problem not revenues. NO TAXES!
McKeeva is an idiot, a dinosaur XXXX.
I say remove him now! Enough is enough!
"No Taxation Without Representation" – perhaps the Premier should re-look at his history books!
He has afew books, but he hasn't finished colouring them all in yet.
That history lesson is taught at the high school level not the primary school lever so he didn't get that book and the school of hard knocks has banned that lesson from their cirrculum.
Cayman to become next Bahamas – crime up and business down and it's ruining the natural beauty which attracts tourism. Cayman's subsistence farmers will be a step ahead when everyone's left. Who's going to rent the apartments and houses?
So we are paying tens of thousands per employee in permit fees (tax) then 10% of salary more? If other OFCs see this happen and prepare well, they could make a killing here. Maybe you can get away with it by halving the permit fees but then as quick money grab, that wouldn't work.
Part of the problem is precisely the opposite in that the voting population tends to take out more and put in less (if any) but trying to put a realistic policy in place to change that endangers a party's power if they are not organised enough to deliver associated benefits.
What little beauty there is.
the final nail in cayman's coffin……..
It looks like the premier went to bed and had a dream and decides to pay # 10 today. Not 5 or 6 but 10. Has he calculated what 10% of a person salary is and correlate it to the rising cost of living? Where will the rent come from and other pertinent cost/expenses to survive in Cayman. And why should the minority pay for the majority? What voice or platform does an expat have to protest this ridiculous tax?
Most countries have taxation, whether VAT, income, corporate or a combination thereof. I believe that most expats have experience with taxation. 10% is modest when compared with the UK and US.
You've missed the point. The hard part is getting it introduced, then 10% becomes 15%, then 30%. Until the government gets its leaky, corrupt and wasteful spending under control it will keep going up and up until there's no one here to tax.
It's the concept that it's the indentured slaves who have to pay for the government's failure to live within its means that is the abhorent thing to this hair brained idea.
If we are to have payroll tax, so be it. Bermuda has it. The British Virgin Is. have it. No big deal.
McKeeva just doesn't want to face the political consequences of apply such a tax universally so, rather than applying it fairly, he is beating the slaves again, presumably until their morale improves.
BVI? 8% and a permit costs about a grand US for a CEO…
Hey, if BVI, Dublin, Toronto, Singapore see this coming they should do very well.
Here's to Cayman CEOs working from home with all operational staff spread elsewhere across three times zones…
Yes Bermuda does have a payroll tax but employees contribute a mere 4.75% towards the full payroll tax and the employee knows that before they sign up for a job! And it's paid for by all who work, not merely expats but bermudians as well. That's a far cry from… by the way we are now going to charge you 10% of your salary bobo.
It's true, but in Cayman we still have a chance to have an efficient government that doesn't visit the cost of its largesse on the working population. No fiscal changes should be made until all the reports we've already paid for have been implemented, and then we will see where the numbers finish up. Any solutions that disproportionately hurt expatriates will be damaging overall as someone like Mac doesn't appreciate how integrated we are as a community.
HAVING SAID THAT – Bermuda does have a 10% tax on salaries and their public services are universally better. More money does fix problems, but better not to have the problems.
As an ex-pat worker, I do not have issue with a 10% payroll tax as long as I'm allowed to vote. As well, any person on the Island that is eliglible for taxation should be eligible to run for any elected position.
If you expect us to pay more than we already do for your incompetence, better be prepared to be held accountable for how that money is spent.
Dramatic changes are neccesary for how the government operates in this country. Whatever you earn, spend less. A fundamental rule to operate any household, business or goverment. Until this happens, this country is well on it's way to becoming just another third world statistic.
you don't get it do you – we already have taxation in the cayman islands, this is the implimentation of direct taxation rather than consumption taxation. All caymanians and expats alike have experience of taxation – this just massivlely increases the cost of doing business here!
It if it so modest then everyone including Caymanians should pay, rather then discrimate against an individual based on Citzenship – this will just create more division in our already divided country. This makes me sick to my stomach – and I am Caymanian.
God help us.
SO why don't you pay as well? if it is not so bad
After expenses I have 15% to pay for food and fuel, now it will be 5%, I will better off elsewhere
Cost of living is to high here already without having to pay a descriminatory tax. Look at other countires with payroll tax, they include the whole population
so be ready to pay 10% as well, then we will here how dreadful it is
I could not agree more, 10% is fairly small. However I have accepted being treated as a second class citizen in this country because i pay no tax, but now you are asking us to be treated like that and pay for it…in the UK or US it you come in on a work permit it is for as long as you are in that job, not advertised on a regular basis with the chance of being thrown off, others changes will have to be made to ensure everyone gets a fair deal out of this… not to mention if it is lawful to tax under EU human rights/discrimination laws…
A work-permit is only permission to work for the duration of the work-permit ie not for the duration of the work. A work-permit is therefore a contract with the Cayman Islands and nothing more.
It is not a guarantee. When people come here they need to understand that simple fact.
Why is it so difficult to understand that Cayman is for Caymanians first and foremost and not in existence to provide for the rest of the world as well. We are too small for that.
Hopefully now firms will see the logic and economy of hiring Caymanians first.
Yes, you are right. Most expats have experienced taxes before. Many still pay some sort of tax in their coountry of origin. The question is should an expat with NO RIGHTS to vote, make any decisions about the direction of the country or even send their kids to a public school have to pay so that Caymanians can do all three. Sales tax would be more fair, but then Caymanians would have to pay too. Good luck renting apartments and selling cars in the future. That sound you hear if you listen is the sound of the jets warming up to take the expats home.
Excuse me?!!! hen I went to University in the USA, I paid three times the amount that an American paid, for the same education!!!! Why? because I was a foriegner, ops, I mean a leagal alien.
I, and the many thousands that were there as legal aliens didn't threatened revolutions and rose up in arms, why? because that was not our country and we knew we had to play by their rules!!! not ours!!!! When you go to Rome you do as the Romans do, so dear please Roaman follow the same train of thought when you leave Rome!!
you knew when you signed up that you'd be paying more than US citizens and that's pretty much how it works everywhere, tax paying citizens pay lower fees. That's not what will happen to expats in Cayman – why should anyone have to put up with what is effectively to them a 10% paycut? other expats will be attracted to cayman because 10% income tax is still low compared to most other countries, but what about the ones that are already here? Or do you like the constant rollover of people through your country? the rollover that causes less people to invest and put down roots and care?
so did you pay direct tax in the US while you were there?
Is Sales tax a direct tax?
Cost of living in UK and US?
Most countries don't have segregation and imposes taxes on everyone!
if this idiotic idea ever comes to pass I can only blame the chamber of commerce for not standing up to this incompetent shambles of an administration before now……
Thanks mac, i have been thinking about what else you could do to ensure your complete annihilation in the next election and not just a landslide victory for any opposition.
Thank you, yousosweet
Unfortunately the voters will love an "expat tax" and they'll love that the money keeps flowing. This is good for the politicians, it's just bad for the country.
Smart Caymanians would far rather have responsible and accountable government than disincentives to investment and growth.
Agreed but the evidence of ongoing support for Big Mac is not the best statistical support for the hypothesis that 'majority of voters' = "smart Caymanians" so I think you are both right!!!
our only hope is that, like every other announcement that this government has made, it will not actually happen…..
Yo, I'm out. Its not just the tax, is the whole positive/negative descrimination thing going on round here with the laws – this place sucks big time.
all because this spineless government will not tackle the overstaffed, over paid, underworked civil service!!!!!!
can the last one to leave please turn off the lights…..
Also, will the last one to leave please turn off the cash machine? It won't be neded anymore, and there'll be no one to pay its power bill.
When will it be introduced? Do tips count as payroll? Who is going to collect it? Has a law been drafted? Does this mean we will get proper government accounts to show where our money has gone? Does it really matter since I will be packing up and moving on!
You all know that you get Orange Juice from an Orange, you don't expect Champainge! What did you expect from a drop-out Premier another Theory of Realitivy!
He thinks 3,000 is more than 5,000.
Probably be some great deals on cars, real estate and boats in the coming months…If you were in the market might want to sit tight for a while.
time for an expat strike!
the chamber of commerce must stand up to this straight away…..or else this place is officially doomed……
Is the Chamber run by expats? Or are you saying most Chamber member business' are staffed by expats?
Well, maybe now more Caymanians can get a job, in higher positions too.
HAHAHA, Watch the applications for residency and citizenship roll in. Even more money for Government now.
While I know alot of Expats are going to be upset about this, Let me remind them that they are only here because they are making the type of money, that they would NEVER earn where ever they are from. Living that island life without paying taxes must be great eh?
I know of expats making close to 20k a month, and wouldn't even be spit at in their own country. So a little 10% shouldn't be anything to bicker about compared to not making earning anything back in their home country.
Good one mac, I might not be on your band wagon, but someone used their head on this one. More money for government = good stuff. Now dont go and spend it all off in one place. lol
are you an MLA or cabinet minister? sounds like cuz you are one deluded ignorant jackass
For every expat on $20K a month there are a hundred cutting your lawns, stacking your supermarket shelves, washing dishes in your hotels and mopping your floors. Jobs the so-called "unemployed Caymanians" refuse to even apply for.
Congratulations your comment does down as one of the most unintelligent, nonsensical and complete waste of time in the history of CNS posts.
We are all a little less intelligent now just for reading your post!
Let me remind you that you could not possible know why expats are here – your assumption that it is just about money is shite specualtion. If it is only a "little" 10% then you won't mind paying either.
You poor guy.
I'll gladly pay the 10% if they put it into the education system.
Of Course we all are.
We're not here earning 30% less than we did at home with a 25-30% increase in the cost of living because our husband or wifes position was moved to Cayman. The level of pay is the same only the choice was move or go. Or one go and split up a family.
If you think people are here soley on money you are very much mistaken. We are treated like a second class. The only reason we have jobs is that Caymanians didn't apply or weren't qualified enough. Here we are and after 5 years still afraid to think about spending the savings on a home as the impending dread of one of our work permits not being renewed is up and so the impending doom of having to leave and split the family up again until work can be found.
If this tax come true then I see the downward sprial of Cayman growing ever steaper. You all say about we come here but if you don't like it go home and pay tax. We Gladly. for my tax back home I got healthcare, a good public service, good roads, a national pension, a lower cost of living and a community that saw everyone as equal.
Please get your facts straight. We’re not here because we make more money here. At least i dont believe its generalised. I personally escaped the cold and wanted the experience of living somewhere else… I did the math and even with paying 45% income tax (thats before VAT, property tax, school tax, etc) back home, I only come out even when compared to living here. I make the same gross salary as back home but still the savings account is depleting with the ever increasing cost of living. So yes, a 10 to 15% tax would definitely impact my purchasing power negatively.
Outside of nice weather, mostly nice people (you get jackasses anywhere in the world), lifestyle and culture is seriously limited.
They are taxing the unrepresented to fund giveaways to the voters. Scandals like the gasboy cards, CINICO, misuse of roading resources in the sister islands are nothing more than the government turning a blind eye while Caymanian voters loot the national coffers. Then they cover it up by refusing to provide basic accounts and transparency. Now in order to pay for those practices they want to bring in a discriminatory tax on members of Cayman society that are not represented in the democratic process?
The worst thing is, taxing the expats is politically popular, and giving away money and perks is a time honored Cayman tradition so there is no way this tax will stay at 10%.
I'm married to a Caymanian and work over here. He set up his own business and we were planning to buy a home and make our life over here. Not now – I'm off somewhere where they don't treat foreigners like scum.
Ummm – If your'e married to a local why do u consider yoruself a foreigner?
Umm – because she is routinely treated like one?
and where is that exactly? would your home country treat Caymanians like ROYALS? my guess is no!
no not as royals, just as equals
Hardly. Discrimination is rampant all over Europe not to mention the U.S. and Canada. Heckin Europe they throw bananas on soccer fields because one of the teams has a black player.
And here you go to immigration, lie through your teeth, manipulate boards, break policy and laws. The difference, of course, is your actions are embraced whereas the banana thrower is condemned.
No, not royalty. Just as human beings. Its becoming quite clear why Mac is so popular.
I say let us all hit the streets and march against this crazy man! Expats and Caymanians together.
But its so hot man.
Ok, but I need to get my expat gardener to ride me down the street in one of those bicycle things the tourists like. Or maybe we could all protest in the Trolly Rodger?
“We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle” Winston Churchill
May be better to collect back from the "fuel" thieves? Don't kill the chicken laying golden eggs.
What a bunch of idiots. Obviously no common sense or understanding of economics. I guess that's what you get when most of the government officials barely have a high school education. It's just another nail in the coffin for Cayman.
I think i can hear cheering coming from North Side. Mac and Ezzard friends again.
Don't cut a branch you are sitting on.
Wow. I guess we will be packing up and going somewhere else. Then the govt loses the moeny they get from our work permit fees.
oh please, as if you would be making anything close to what your making now back home.. Your here for a reason. No TAX.. Stop bickering and pay your dues.
Paying 10% or making crap money back home… you decide.
No taxation without representation! Read the history books sweetie!!
Rubbish. I could do precisely the same job (and earn the same remuneration) lots of places in the world. The only difference is I would pay taxes but in return get access to top tier educational institutions, infrastructure and health care, not to mention a much lower cost of living. Once you start discriminitorily taxing people here without providing any of the above in return many will rightly opt to relocate (along with their businesses).
i would be making far more money back home – i don't live here for the money, like many expats i live here for the lifestyle.
Are you paying your dues? No of course not! Your just a taker!! How about you take some repsonsibility for the mess Cayman is in rather then ask the expats to bail you out.
Said the non-tax-paying Caymanian to the soon-to-be-taxed ex pat…
If it were a tax on everyone across the board, it might be easier to swallow, but nothing says you're a second-class citizen quite like a tax based on your status in society. It may seem right to some, but that's what I call discrimination. Too bad you don't see it.
As for the money I make here versus what I would make back home, you forget the opportunity cost associated with giving up our first-world employment to join you in this windswept "paradise" in the middle of the ocean. If we had stayed home, after a few years many of us would be earning back home what we earn here, don't kid yourself.
See…your mindset is what baffles me about most of you expats…here you are bragging about making just as much money back home yet YOU ARE STILL HERE!!! Leave then.
You don't get it do you. The poster is saying just the opposite – iof it was about how much money they could make they would leave but it isn't…..for many expats (and lets not delude ourselves that this tax is hitting the mega income earning layers, Fund people etyc, it is the scuba instructors, the bar staff the private sector nurses (etc etc). They come hear as part of life's experience not the money. They simply could not afford to take a 10% pay cut and the businesses that pay them cannot afford to pay them 10% more.
I don;t see you paying your dues?
and yes witha 10% tax, we can earn more money else where
now think that other countires tried implementing a payroll tax on expats and all found it was illegal and had t tax the whole working population
So ou will be paying soon, can you afford to lose 10% of your income?
Normally I just laugh at these comments but lets face the facts!! I make the same salary as I did in my home country but my cost of living (food and rent) are substantially higher. If the roads were paved properly, if the crime rate wasn't on the rise, if there were more public programs for the community, and if the public utilities were actually regulated I wouldn't care too much about giving "my share". This is an issue of the government not being accountable for their spending!! What spending does the government actually have as there isn't any intense infrastructure. Let's add up all the sources of government revenue vs the spending and then we can talk about fair share.
1. The issue is not expats going back home, its their going to other offshore jurisdictions, rivals to Cayman. That way we not only lose their permit fees, local expenditure, but we give our competitors a leg up in the war for talent.
2. Pay their dues? You do realise that the expats don’t benefit from a lot of government expenditure such as schooling, social services, scholarships, and have their salaries adjsuted to reflect the costs of their work permits, ? So you think their “due” is to not only pay the same as everyone else by way of duty etc and receive less, but in fact to pay more, receive less AND have no say in how government expenditure is spent. Sheesh.
Bulls**t, most well qualified accountants/lawyers can earn the same if not more in other locations, onshore and offshore, no need to go "home" as you put it. The difference is that you get something in return for your taxes in other locations, in Cayman it disappears into a greedy black hole.
Two industries are keeping Cayman afloat, Finance and Tourism, lose either one of these industries and the other will also collapse, it will be fun times then.
Notice how many financial sector businesses in Cayman are opening offices in other locations? Wonder why?
Soon come, nobody left to tax but Caymanians.
It's absolutely not true that all expats are making more here than they could at home (although I'm sure it is true for some). The fact is though that at home I'd earn 10k less a year because of tax but I wouldnt have to pay school fees for my children, or pay for my health care, we moved here to work in a different environment and to have the chance to live in the sunshine for a while. It will be very difficult for us to stomach a 10% pay cut (which is effectively what this tax would do). I could be wrong but I don't think there are any other countries who tax expats differently from how they tax citizens?
Why is it that commenters assume expats get paid better in Cayman then back at home? It isn't true. 10% tax on top of the decreased wages — I couldn't afford to live in Cayman.
The only reason I wanted to live in Cayman was for the scuba diving.
And the locals lose our rent, and the goverment a sizeable amount of sales tax. The lure to the Expat is the zero Income Tax!!
The Expats that like the Island will likely stick it out (the ones that don't are all but gone).
Regretfully, the companies that need expats are going to have a nightmare convincing new Expats to come here as a tax free income is the NUMBER ONE reason to be hear in the first place!
If the Island was managed right in the first place…………………….
This is why you make expats look like greedy takers. Most of us are not here for ZERO INCOME TAX. We are here to live in a beautiful tropical island because we enjoy the lifestyle, the year round beaches etc!
Just because there is ZERO INCOME TAX doesnt mean it is a draw to all expats because look at the prices of everything here! Everything has a duty of 20% to sometimes even 50%. That is a type of tax my dear.
My salary in the US was equal to my salary here in Cayman. I was in the 28% tax bracket including federal and state taxes but I was STILL able to save more money in the US because the cost is living is WAYYYYYYY cheaper. Frome rent to electricity to food prices to clothing to doctors visits and medicine and so on and so on. I will say that child care here in Cayman is the ONLY thing I have found to be significantly cheaper than in the US.
So speak for yourself about your loving the ZERO INCOME TAX. I love the climate and the beaches and the people and the lifestyle and so much more…..
Has the "Premier" gone absoutely mad?? (This comment coming from a Caymanian who will not have to pay taxes!!) Say what you want but I can't see how pushing a 10% tax on "expats" and driving them away from Cayman will enchance our community??? This is so foolish….
Is it April Fool's Day?!
So with this 10% I'm assuming ex-pats will be entitled to vote?! Doubt it!
I assumed that the work permit fees, which the Government pockets, was the indirect tax on hiring ex-pats. I'm unsure why Caymanians shouldn't pay this as well. It'll be very interesting to see how this island functions without the ex-pats and business that will happily relocate to the BVI as a result. Well done, Mckeeva, well done!
Mark my words, one day soon the BVI too will find itself at these crossroads.
To be fair, most countries (UK, USA included) collect tax from residents whilst only allowing citizens to vote. Having said that, most countries levy taxes on EVERYONE. Not just those that benefit least from the services and capital projects they fund.
This is indeed insanity, but what did anyone expect? The FCO drew a very clear line in the sand in 2009. Mac produced a "three year plan" which failed to produce the promised savings (or even accurate, timely accounts).
Will be interesting to see if the Governor gives assent to such an unprecedented, discriminatory tax.
And now they will get what they want………………………. a mass exodus of expats.
Is it really worth it living on this rock that has gone to the rats?
please leave I heard the Uk just raised income taxes…what state are you going to in the US…heard they doing well up there too.
Yep, we certainly are in the US, thanks!! I can buy 2 gallons of milk for US $5 and a gallon of gas for under US $3. I can actually feed my kids fruits and vegetables that do not cost $4+ a pound like they do in Cayman so they dont have to fill up on rice and dumpling and macaroni and cheese and become obese. My electricity bill including running an entire 3000 sq ft house was US $327. So while your Big Mac runs your country into the ground, we'll just kick back in our a/c house and watch! LMMFAO!
That's interesting. When I left the UK in 2006 I was paying 22% tax. If I were to go home now, I'd only be paying 20%. Sounds a lot, but then again as taxpayers we benefit from the system by way of free education, etc. Whereas Caymanians who have a British passport and choose to move to the UK, having never paid any taxes whatsoever, are automatically entitled to more benefits from our taxes than we are ourselves. Yet in Cayman they expect us to pay taxes and get nothing at all in return. Something wrong with the math there – but then again that's a common problem with MadMac aint it – I mean Math definitely aint his strong point as I believe he has freely admitted himself when he, the Financial Minister, admitted to being no financial expert. I think that's the only time I ever agreed with him.
No taxation without representation!
Taxation with representation ain’t so hot either. Except for today, boy it was scorching! No A/C without electricity = HOT!
Take heed Caymanians, taxation is a slippery slope. Don’t be surprised when your pay check is next on the chopping block.