$8M missing in vehicle fees

| 30/08/2012

_DEW9181_0.jpg(CNS): The police commissioner said he believed there was as much as $8 million missing from the public purse in connection with uncollected fees from unlicensed vehicles on the road. David Baines told Finance Committee members last week that now the RCIPS had recruited a significant number of staff to take it beyond just a response capability, he had officers that he could now deploy in proactive work with the DVL staff to begin to address that problem. These high visibility operations had, he said, already boosted numbers at vehicle licensing. He also explained that while the stand-alone traffic department has been merged into normal response, specially trained officers were still working in the RCIPS.

Answering the usual questions from MLAs about the almost $33 million allocation in this year’s budget to the police service, the commissioner spoke about how officers were deployed. He said that prevention was an important part local policing and there was a strategy in place in which the police patrolled and targeted vulnerable and at-risk areas as well as monitoring known offenders. He said that improvements in security in the face of increasing armed robberies would often see offenders changing their actions in response to increased preventative methods employed by business owners as well as police surveillance.

Despite the increase in the police budget, which was mostly down to the boost in numbers throughout the service, the commissioner pointed to cost cutting measures in the service through better management of police marine vessels on patrol and cutting fuel use. He said that the marine fleet had never been as well maintained and ready for use as at present, with just one boat undergoing some minor maintenance.

Although the police helicopter had been under threat of being sold off under a previous budget proposal, there were no specific questions about it being sold from Finance Committee members. Baines told MLAs that the helicopter was capable of flying as far as the US and had been staffed with first responders so it could be used in medical emergencies as well as police matters

The commissioner explained some of the recent changes to the RCIPS and said the Drug Task Force was now part of the Serious Crime and Drugs Task Force, which reflected the changing threat of serious criminality the islands faced recently.

The number of neighbourhood officers was increasing and was up to eleven dedicated officers, Baines said, noting that it was always a battle for the RCIPS to facilitate the advancement, development and specialist training of officers while at the same time filling the neighbourhood beat officer posts.

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Comments (108)

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  1. Anonymous says:

    It is not the registration fee…what about the car insurance if one of these idiots crashes into you?

  2. Anonymous says:

    Check the Dump sure you will find alot of the cars there with plates if "Mr Scrap" did get them. 

  3. Dred says:

    You know what we are making a whole lot of hoopla about nothing.

    Answer me this question. Do you think that number was much different last year this time? Answer is no. Why bring it up now? Why not a year ago? Two years ago? Reason. Funding.

    We know that every department is having to cut expenses and every department is TRYING to justify their big budgets. RCIP is no different.

    When they are ready what they do is to pander to people's whims…

    About 2 to 3 weeks ago it was the amount of road accidents so we need more police doing stops. Last week it was people speeding thru school zones so we need police there at the school (this has been true for years now not just this year) this week it's 8 million dollars in uncollected unlicensed vehicles. All they aretrying to do people is to play to us BLOGGERS so they can GET THEIR BUDGET.

    Here are teh facts. Our Police need to get tech happy so they can ahem "get more done with less" as they say it in the private sector. They do not need more manpower what they need is more BRAINPOWER in the RCIP. They do not need a BIGGER BUDGET they need is a SMARTER BUDGET.

    So let's stop playing their game because we are so gulable. Let's demand that they create better systems not use the old systems. The fact is people have learnt how to beat their old system. I am 1000% sure they have a lot of TRASH on their computers. Outstanding that are not outstanding and outstanding that are simply uncoillectable BUT it looks good on their books.

    RCIP. Stop the BS. Get SMARTER….Fosters has brains in aisle 5. 

    • Anonymous says:

      Agree..this is BS..you maybe have $1 million in uncollected fees..the rest are in the dump with the plates still on …

      What the RCIPS needs to do is hook up a computer system into patrol cars with scanners that automatically scan license plates that are tied into the DVL.  That way, when driving behind someone they can just get the details and see if the license coupon is expired! Simple!

      But actually I do enjoy the current system quite a bit as the lazy police don't bother to pull me over for tickets etc.  The only problem is that they don't pull over the crazy drivers much either.  Truth is I don't like to drive after 9 on a Friday, Saturday or Sunay or Holiday as I don't feel safe..Its a trade off but I think it is possible to make the place safer for drivers and enjoyable for responsible motorist without being a facisit sytle police service pulling over granny's and making them blow on the spot.

      I spent some years in Ft. Lauderdale Florida attending university and I can see how bad having Nazi style policing can be in terms of making life difficult or just generally affecting the community preception.  Often when I lived in the US I felt like a criminal already in prison and I often thought to myself do these people really think they are free..far from it! they are just in a bigger cell as they were not really free to do much without a worry about the law…Like O gosh if I pee in this bush I might get arrested and prosecuted for lewd conduct or if the police doesn't like mehe will arrest me and they will find something on the books to send me to jail..so we need to be careful and strike a balance

  4. Anonymous says:

    Maybe if we didn't have to take half a day off work and lose our holiday entitlement to actually get the vehicle licensed in the first place people would have more incentive to actually want to get the fees paid.  It is one of the most painful tasks I have to do, and usually involves 50 other poor sods in the same boat crammed into a small waiting room like sardines in a tin, with one cashier working.

    Its easy, lets get an online system where you can do everything with the click of a button, insurance and inspection fees.  Surely we have the ability to set up a online system where people can pay their renewal/license fees its like living in the 80's!

    The first insurance company on Island to set up a system where you can get a quote online, pay for insurance online and print your cover note off will make a steal !

    • Anonymous says:

      A friend told me that you will soon be able to re-license your vehicle and/or renew driving license online.  It is presently being tested.

    • Anonymous says:

      Good comment.

      When I was working in the Cayman Islands this whole licensing process reminded me of the UK back in the late 1960s.

      And your annual inspection? I did vehicle safety inspections in the UK during the late 60s and they were tougher than that. Bottom line is that there are private vehicles on the roads in Grand Cayman that would have been declared unroadworthy in the UK over 40 years ago. You also have major problems with the trucks being used on the island, most of them are just completely unroadworthy wrecks that should have scrapped years ago.

      In the UK I now license and insure my car online. Obviously it still has to go in for the annual inspection (MoT) but the paperwork for that is also processed online by the test centre and right now all the records for my motor vehicle are instantly accessible to any police traffic patrol in the UK. 

      One of the features of the fancy new CCTV system is supposed to be ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition), which in my opinion is one of the most significant recent developments in effective roads policing. The problem is that without a proper vehicle database it's a complete waste of time and money – cart before the horse mentality in action here.

      Quite honestly I think Commissioner Baines comments are complete BS. If he was really serious about this he would be pushing for a fully computerised system of vehicle records to tie in with ANPR. With that in place his officers could sit by the roadside merrily catching offenders without disrupting the traffic flow with roadblocks.

      He also needs to address the 'friends and family' attitude that allows his officers to turn a blind eye to traffic offences committed by people they know or people who might be important enought to cause them problems.

      Last month UK police forces clocked up their one-millionth uninsured vehicle seized and crushed so If he is really serious about this here's a suggestion – give everyone on the island three months to get ther vehicles road legal. After that any vehiclefound in use without insurance, a current sticker or a current inspection is impounded, crushed and sold off for scrap.

       

       

       

       

  5. UH UH UH says:

    Mr. Baines, How about spending more time and effort doing important things like solving all the those unsolved deaths etc. that  exist here in The Cayman Islands!

     

    By the way: Here's a little math on the assumed $8,000,000.00 loss of revenue!  

    If  we used an average of say $150.00 dollars [annual fee] per vehicle, "which I think is reasonable" we would have something like "53,333 vehicles" that have outstanding fee violations. If that's the case some one or some department are not doing their job.

     

  6. Anonymous says:

    Cayman's testing and licencing procedures are totally unfit for purpose, How can you be sure that any vehicle is properly road worthy with the 3 minute check that they offer, you see vehicles that should have been condemned years ago, being passed every day? Then you go through the indignity of having to sit and be lectured by an official who believes its his Civil Service duty is to question your faith whilst on government time. Then, you have to sit with a multitude of other frustrated enquirers, driving test candidates and fee payers for anything up to two hours, in a cramped and uncomfortable room.

    The only reason that I can see for this nonsensical system is that it is designed to keep people employed in mind numbingly menial jobs on the government payroll.

    Why isn't the test credible and why can't you pay your test fee at the testing area, instead of wasting so much time at the mercy of individuals who care little for customer service or job efficiency? Time to get into the 21st century.

    • Peter Davey says:

      10.18 If you pick a day and time during the month when volume is low, you'll get throigh very quickly. The staff  processing my licence renewal last month were as efficient and thorough as they could be. Smile at the world and it smiles back, usually.

    • Anonymous says:

      You are exaggerating. I have found the service in the new facility very good. Perhaps you were not around a few years ago when you had to STAND in a line for a minimum of one hour…sometimes the line went out the door. I am thankful for the new system where you can take a number and sit to wait your turn while reading your newspaper. If you don’t want your pay to be cut while you are not on the job, just hire someone to do it for you…it’s not expensive and it will save YOU a lot of stress.

  7. Blackspade says:

    this has to be the easiest fix for the entire law enforcement community in cayman.

    3 databases with increasing levels of login security 

    1.vehicle registration and insurance- info regarding vehicles that have been registered and expiration dates of registration and insurance info.

    2. drivers licensing and identification- link immigration,police, records to form a data base that works/ not OTRIS 

    3. aircraft, road vehicles, and marine vessel registry- aircraft already have N numbers that canbe checked. road vehicles have license plates that should make it easy to tell what car the plate was issued to. Marine vessels just need to be checked for safety equipment and marine worthiness then have a registration number issued to them.  if there is a problem doesn't the RCIP have a marine unit, patrolling the borders is only 1 part of the job.

  8. Anonymous says:

    I agree that a lot of fees are probably for old Ivan vehicles that people didn't turn in the plates.  I know I have a old car in my yard but I lost one of the plates so I couldn't turn it in.  

  9. Anonymous says:

    It is simply astounding that the neither the RCIPS nor the licensing department have figured out as yet what to do with this problem, in that, under our Traffic Law, the annual vehicle licensing fee is simply a yearly tax which is due on the anniversity of the original registration of the vehicle, until it is either certified as being destroyed by the Director of DOEH or exported by the Collector of Customs. Therefore, all owners of vehicles must pay the yearly tax and it should be a fairly simple, albeit tedious, exercise for the Licensing Department to send a demand notice to anyone who fails to pay the tax. In fact, as long as you own a vehicle, you have to pay the fee each year and the age old concept of ‘turning in the license plates’ is not even recognized by the current traffic law. Consequently, there is no reason why the police need to wait until someone drives an unlicensed vehicle on a public road to pounce on them and issue a ticket for driving an unregistered vehicle, as owning an unlicensed vehicle is technically a breach of the Law, and, in my view, could be prosecuted under the general penalty section of the Traffic Law. However, If we want an absolutely clear solution to this, all that is needed is to promulgate a simple amending provision that provides penal sanction for not paying the annual fee, within, say, one month of it becoming due, and then the police (or a licensing dept officer) could then deliver a summons or ‘ticket’ right to an offending owner’s door. Problem solved. And all without the need for any stupid annoying roadblocks.

  10. Anon says:

    Certainly many of these unregistered vehicles are no longer on the road, thus the fees are not collectible. Carrying the numbers on the books is a waste of time, and a distortion of the real revenues that can be recouped.

    Wipe all pre2008 or 2009 numbers from the balance sheet, they are uncollectable. Crack down on those left. Don’t waste time and inconvenience those of us us that pay our fees with roadblocks. Get off your butts and check parking lots and roadsides.

    Everyday in GT I see numerous vehicles with violations. Okay, mostly over tint and obscured plates, but still…

    Why not offer a percentage of the fine to anyone who finds a violation? Puts people to work, and reduces the burden for our police force. Win,win.

  11. Anonymous says:

    Listen folks, simple solution. 2 Police on  a scooter each

    with log books patrolling parking lots and construction sites.

    write up offenders and give them 5 working days to pay.

    Problem solved with minimum expence and revenue collected or

    vehicle taken off the road with plates taken  in and they have to pay up

    to the time they drove the vehicle.

    Geeeeeee that's too easy, we need 4 vehicles and 6 cops to hold up traffic

    to be effective!!!!!!!!!!

    Do  the traffic department have records of who are unlicensed?

    Simple print out will make discovery of offenders very easy.

    • Truthseeker says:

      I don't think the road traffic law extends to private property "parking lots and construction sites".

      If your argument is based on a false premise, then perhaps it is not so simple after all?

      Please correct me if I am wrong!

      Truthseeker

       

      • Anonymous says:

        @@@@@@@@@@@@

        You have to drive on public roads to get to those private places.

        so write them up,

         !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Traffic records will also show the owner residence.

        &&&&&&&&&& CCTV will show their daily activity

        Excuses to support any kind of breaking the law's is what's

        got us to whare we are now.

        Report those you know that are breaking any law.

         

  12. Anonymous says:

    The million dollar CCTV system should be used to flash unlicencesd plates as they pass the cameras. A polieman futher up the road should then be able to stop the car and give out a FINE

    Also could send out fines by post/email to vehicle owners who dirve unlicences vehicles

    We have the technology so use it (done in London to good effect)

  13. Anonymous says:

    No one respects the Police in Cayman because they don't enforce the laws. Every day I witness speeding in general, speeding through school zones, passing into oncoming traffic, motorcycles riding between lanes (yes that's illegal too), and the occasional idiots with their kids riding in trailer boats being pulled down the road. Law and order is dependent on enforcement of the law. My guess is that the problem starts at the top. 

    • Anonymous says:

      Could not agree with you more, I've seen polie on many occation, ignore bald tires, no seat belts, no break lights, the list goes on and on, Blaine, you're a joke, waste of time.

    • noname says:

      Actually its starts mostly in the middle in Cayman.  Thats where most of the Caymanians are "given" jobs.

  14. Anonymous says:

    Thanks to social media and smartphone technology I know where all the roadblocks are at all times. Beat that one Baines!

  15. Anonymous says:

    Baines, arent you the same man who claimed that we Cayman doesnt need a traffic department with dedicated traffic cops?

    You came in and disbanded the solution, allowed this problem to grow to $8 million when we can least afford it and now plan to come back to govt for more money to fix a problem that didnt have to develop in the first place! SMH!!

  16. Anonymous says:

    Just a suggestion…i just came back from holidays from overseas and was amazed at the control systems that are in place on the roadways. On toll bridges no longer do they have booths tocollect money but have a overhead system that reads the plates and send the bills automatically through the mail. If left unpaid a vehicle cannot get re-registered. As well they have cameras for speeding that fine the vehicle for infractions and again unpaid the owner cannot get their licence renewed. Why not use this technology to send fines for unlicensed vehicles to the owner and fine licensees for speeding, this seems to be a very cost efffective means to deal with these deadbeats. We have very few major arteries that go into the districts and they would be unable to avoid these cameras and hopefully catch these delinquent individuals.

     

    • Chum bag says:

      What is the point in all these cameras? They cost millions and there is nobody watching them…..I know this because South Sound Rd is a racetrack late Saturday night and there is not a police officer in sight, nobody ever gets prosecuted for speeding or dangerous driving and many are moving at over 70 mph despite the fact that there are cameras everywhere!
      David Baines has opened a can of worms and it is evident from most of the posters on this website that the population are very disgruntled with the shambolic policing of the RCIPS traffic cops.
      Mobile speed cameras would generate a massive income and not require any more officers to man them….and whilst you are about it, put some tax, number plates and working lights on the Marine Police trailers, remove the illegal tints from several police vehicles and stop your officers from using their vehicles for personal use, shopping trips and collecting their kids from school (fire service included)

  17. Bob says:

    my truck hasn’t been licensed for a year now and i have no intentions on doing it anytime soon 🙂

    • Anonymous says:

      Lets get this straight.  Over $8 Million dollars is owed in outstanding licensing, etc and we are just finding this out now…that is why this country is in the mess it is in now.  How much longer is this going to go on?????

      • Anonymous says:

        With all the huge and very public waste going on right now in Grand Cayman you pick this as the reason?  Really?

    • Anonymous says:

      Same here, but a van and only since March.

    • Anonymous says:

      That's all very swashbuckling, but if you really had any guts you'd have provided us with your number plate, assuming you've got one!

    • Anonymous says:

      Spoken like a REAL Caymanian.   Right?

    • Anonymous says:

      And this is how REAL caymanians show respect for their country and their laws. (We all get it)

    • Anonymous says:

      Amazing that people take this baiting comment by an anonymous poster and use it to launch an attack on Caymanians generally. If this is the contempt with which "REAL Caymanians"are held by expats is there any wonder that Caymanians do not trust expats to make decisions in their best interests?

  18. Anonymous says:

    Idea – instead of disbanding the RCIPS' Traffic Dept adnd the Community Beat Officers (whose dumb idea was that?) as they did, why not convert ALL officers to traffic / beat duties.. ?

    I'm sure the crime rate woudl drop (but only if they walk, or turn off the car's AC and roll down the windows).

    • Anonymous says:

      I seem to recall reading something here on CNS in the last couple of days to that effect, i.e. what you have suggested is what has been done. 

  19. Like It Is says:

    1) Set up a roadblock coming out of West Bay.

    2) Stop all Japanese cars over 6 years old.  All green Civics will be stopped.

    3) Checking for licensing and insurance.

    4) Seize the 90% of cars that fail the check.

    5) Point to the bus stop and tell them it runs regularly.

     

    • Anonymous says:

      Definitely agree with you about the green Civics. Nine times out of ten the cars I see driving recklessly are older Japanese models. Very rarely American/European ones. The antics of some of these road users astounds me – they speed, weave in and out of lanes, tailgate, overtake dangerously etc etc. all with an air of utter disregard for the safety of others. And they appear to show no sense of a fear of being stopped, in fact quite the contrary. (Where are the police??!!!!).  If I was a policeman I could write up at least ten of these repeat offenders every morning, and I'm pretty sure many of our readers could do likewise. Sorry to state the obvious, but we need some serious law enforcement on our roads to curb these dangerous driving practices.

    • UH UH UH says:

      Did I hear you correctly? Bus runs regularly! That would be great if we had real busses with set schedules that users would know when the busses would be at a certain stop. What we need is a scheduled bus service with comfortable seats that people willnot feel  like sardines in a can. And if we had such a service a lot more people would opt for the bus even if they had to pay a little more.

  20. Anonymous says:

    The problem with unlicensed vehicles is due to the fact that police roadblocks constantly target people living in the eastern districts (Hurleys roadblock) and west bay (Tiki beach roadblock). The fact is that the majority of unlicensed vehicles are registered in GEORGE TOWN! Thus, no roadblocks are conducted on the major interconnecting roads in GT(Walkers road, eastern ave, shedden road, smith rd, crewe rd, etc) andpoeple livng there know this so they dont bother to license their vehicle. Also, the 8 million dollars outstanding represents several years of vehicles not being licensed and not that there are a majority of vehicles being unlicensed! THE RCIPS can easily determine where the majority of offenders live by reviewing the DVDL database and target those areas instead of penalising persons who live in the east and west.

  21. Anonymous says:

    I don't enjoy when the first question the vehicle inspector asks me is "have you prayed today sir?"  At first I thought it was a veiled reference to the state of my vehicle but, after I showed him my indicators, he started telling me that the Lord had a plan for me. I told him i was an atheist and next thing I'm on my way to Andy's Autos for 2 new shock absorbers and a tire rod.

    • Quarter Pounder says:

      I mean whose fault is that but yours?  Seriously.  Have you prayed today – yes, sir, 5 times.  Once to the east, twice to the west, once to the north and three times to the south.  I even prayed for you Sir, for you and your family.  Blessed be they.  And with that, end of conversation.  Telling him you're an atheist effed you over – not a smart move.  When in Rome be twice the Romans, even if you don't believe.  But thanks for the story, pretty hillarious. 

    • Anonymous says:

      I know what you are saying "Have you found the Lord?" isn't the way most vehicle inspections start.

      • anonymous says:

        Didn't  know he was missing..but don't call the RCIPS and expect THEM to find him..probably say he contributed to getting himself lost..

    • Godshmod says:

      It is disgrace how others are permitted to impose their religiosity in these modern times.  Imposing Chirstianity is religious discrmination and harrasment against those who do not believe either that religion or any religion.  "When in Rome" is not an argument, I do not have to have my basic rights infringed because such barbarism is endemic.

      • Anonymous says:

        I have the strong impression that you are not a Caymanian? Actually the Roman's were fanatically religious, hence their persecution of the Christians for refusing to worship their many gods. And I don't think any Caymanian is expecting that you all of a sudden "get religion", just that you have an understanding and appreciation of where you are, and have some respect. Yes, my friend, this will involve you putting your precious "basic rights" (whatever they might be) on hold, poor you. But you will survive, God willing.

        • A Theist says:

          Why don't you forgive me instead and turn the other cheek?  I am not going to have bronze age fairy stories rammed down my throat.

        • Anonymous says:

          You should go to church, its like a big club and we have lots of fun ostracizing others and making them feel out of place, and you get lots of extras like undeserved promotions and free trips if you belong to a choir, land at a discount, sometimes my bills get myseriously lost since some of my church members work for the utilities company, and you can eat like a pig and not care about your health because we are all going to heaven…yeah..whats not to like when you get to live under the auspice that you are a seeker of truth, yet you can take advantage of peoples view of the universe.

      • Anonymous says:

        "barbarism"?

    • Anonymous says:

      Sounds like His plan was for you to drive a safe vehicle and continue to be an atheist for the rest of your life if you want to. It's your choice.

      • Anonymous says:

        I think you mean his plan, as opposed to His.  That is, it was the vehicle inspector's plan, and a good one, at that.

  22. Anonymous says:

    Why not sub contract this out to the private sector and pay a company a percentage of collections? This is routine stuff for debt collection agencies who have the systems and experience to do this sort of job effectively. A lot of it is likely to be for various reasons but the collectible amount should come in quite quickly once you start agressively impounding the cars of offenders. I’ll do it for 10%.

    • Fish chomper says:

      And whilst you are at it, dump that ridiculous helicopter and purchase an unmanned drone to watch criminals, it would cost a fraction of the running costs, stay aloft for hours at a time and not irritate the population…..come on RCIPS you have got to get real and live in the real world.

      • Anonymous says:

        Tad worried about the drone thing. I mean, are you talking about something that could blow up a target if need be? I don't want to get taken out on the West Bay Road 'cos the car I'm driving is mistaken for a criminal's, thank you very much!

    • Anonymous says:

      And Boom! Over night you are the enemy of half the people on Cayman and all of those working (sorry, getting a paycheck from) in CIG.  Why do you think they are unable to do it now?  2 words.  Third world.

  23. Anonymous says:

    This is what the police does best so I guess they better get on with it.

  24. Anonymous1 says:

    I think the police should just hire a handful more staff who are dedicated to these kind of violations such as licensing and parking tickets, have them patrol the parking lots and town and just give out tickets.  You get revenue from the ticket and the hope they go and pay their fees after.  These people could easily cover their own salary with just a few tickets a day, and if you ever look at how many cars are illegally parked or have illegal tint in town you'd know it wouldn't take long to get two tickets.  Just my 2 cents.

  25. Anonymous says:

    Blaine’s, if you wrote tickets for the most obvious seen every day(except by the police) offences then we would have plenty money in the kitty.
    Get off your butt and do your job or give me a ticket book and pay me commission on tickets produced. I would be wealthy in a heart beat. (if you could ever get them dealt with by the courts) but that’s another issue.

  26. Dred says:

    What a croc of @#@.

    That isREDICULOUS. XXX

    Let's do the math shall we and we will keep it brutally simple.

    8,000,000 divided by 1,000 = 8,000 hummers not licensed

    Did we all get rich overnight cause I am looking outside and I do not see no Hummer in my yard.

    8,000,000 divided by 185 = 43,243 cars not licensed

    WOW. 43,000 cars not licensed. Maybe we should get rid of vehicle licensing cause at that rate we areall driving illegal.

    This is a STUPID number.

    I am betting that they messed up with Ivan and many vehicles that were turned in plates wise saying these were lost vehicles they are still carrying on their books BECAUSE IT LOOKS GOOD.

    Don't believe me that CIG would do this? Let's take a look at Company Registrar and ask them to review their books for companies that are closed and they have no chance of collections. Let me tell you that amount would be MUCH MORE THAN 8 MILLION COULD BE CLOSE TO 80 MILLION if you ask me.

    In Ivan we lost several thousand vehicles. Someone said to me the number was as high as 8,000 vehicles. I believe even though most of turned in our plates these people never cleared them from the books.

    BUT even though that could be there it barely touches the edge of 40,000 unregistered.

    As I said 8,000,000 is simply a STUPID number put out to DRUM up emotions. Its not real.

    • Anonymous says:

      Dred,

      You have just highlighted the biggest problem with the RCIPS…it's the dire need to a logical thinking.

  27. Anonymous says:

    what happen to alot of policemen personal cars that have expired stickers & dark windows Mr.Baines? you should make sure your house is clean before anything else!

    caymanian

     

    • noname says:

      Spoken like a man with expired stickers and dark tint.  Or maybe just a caymanian complaining about caymanian police?

    • Truth Hurts says:

      is that all you are worried about? Really? What Baines is doing here is commendable to target the large numbers of vehicles on the road which are not licenced.

  28. Anonymous says:

    They're gonna spend about $12M to collect the $8M pending!

    • Anonymous says:

      It’s not supposed to be about the money, it’s about enforcing the law of the land.

      If some people are allowed to break the simple laws without experiencing any negative consequences soon enough a number of those people will break more laws and our social fabric will continue to disintegrate.

      • Dred says:

        Do we really want to go there?

        Raffles are breaking the law…

        Numbers are breaking the law…

        So should we be arresting Pastors….ooops I thought it was about enforcing the law.

        Laws are enforced only where it's convenient inCayman.

    • noname says:

      Thanks to ?

  29. Anonymous says:

    $8,000,000 represents around 44,000 car licences. Is this possible? Perhaps there's a decimal point in the wrong place?

    • Anonymous says:

      Some offenders have years unpaid that all have to be paid up when they get a new licence

    • Anonymous says:

      Some offenders have years unpaid that all have to be paid up when they get a new licence

    • Anonymous says:

      It depends how many months/ years each vehicle has not been licensed.  No doubt some of these vehicles are those destroyed by Hurricane Ivan.

    • Anonymous says:

      I would agree that you are probably close, but perhaps the registrations cover multiple years. Afterall, there is not a fine from the MVL if you don't renew on time, rather you just pay what was owed during that time.

      I think if they really want to get serious about this and stay serious moving forward, you would charge double the registraiton fee for back registrations.  It would give a huge incentive to stay registered.

    • Anonymous says:

      I'm pretty sure the licencing database is full of junk, as a previous poster said there's a lot of cars that had plates and have never been turned in after Ivan.  They should probably exclude anything more than 5 years out of date and start from their for their numbers.

    • Erik the Fish says:

      In most countries if you are caught driving an unlicenced / untested vehicle, your insurance is invalid which means that you are then prosecuted for :

      No insurance No Licence No Test certificate and your vehicle can be siezed and sold

      Should that not be the case here?

  30. Anonymous says:

    He knows $8m is out there that needs to be collected and he has done nothing about it. I say heads should roll!!

    • Anonymous says:

      I think Mr Baines picked up a nightmare when he took on this job.  It doesn't surprise me at all that when he has looked into things, he has discovered this.  I should imagine it is something that has been overlooked for years before he came along.  I imagine also he discovered many other serous polciing discrepancies that need addressing too.  I am just happy that these things are finally being unearthed and addressed.

    • Anonymous says:

      That'll be the oh so efficient Civil Service department that's responsible for issuing and monitoring licences at fault then. I suppose these will be the same people who will be whinging when their pay and conditions are cut or they lose their jobs for total ineptness. Cut this spare wood out of the system and make the rest do their damn jobs properly, oh yes and take their BlackBerry's away so that they actually put a full day's work in.

    • Dred says:

      The reason why heads are not rolling is because management is allowing the numbers even though they have no chance of collection to grow is because it looks good to have 8 million in receivables.

      All I have to say is THE POOR GOVERNMENT THAT HAS TO CLEAN UP THIS MESS.

      So Licensing Department has 8 million in receivables and let's say 20% is collectable and probably not even that we have a write off of 6.4 million in revenuesmeaning EXPENSES increase by 6.4 million.

      I say make a statement to the public that any vehicle that has not been licensed for the past 8 years is going to be deemed to be destroyed and as such any vehicles found to be on the road with a plate this old will have to pay triple teh write off amount. Plus the driver will have his license endorsed.

      Then get that crap off the books. It must be crazy for anyone in your collections department to do collections when there is simply so much rubbish to skim thru. We know we lost vehicles during Ivan. Many people simply picked up and left the Island never to come back not turning in plates or anything. Many of these cars are at the dump.

      I highly doubt any vehicle is being driven on Cayman's roads with a license expired for 8 years. Let's be real. 1 year or 2 years yes but 8 years I highly doubt it. Just clean the slate and move on.

      If your collections department has a smaller more realistic batch then they can actively pursue the offenders and get them to renew by what ever means. 

  31. NeoSurvivor says:

    If the 8 million figure is anywhere near correct, that would seem to represent several YEARS worth of nonregistration.   I realise that many people have more than one vehicle, however I wouldn't expect that many people have an unregistered vehicle that is "on the road".  

    Whoof.   If there are that many cars on the road that aren't registered, I wouldn't guess that they were insured either.    Bad news.  

    • Anonymous says:

      21:04

      If Mr. Bains was to get serious, and collect from the 80% of vehicles that dont know what an Indicator is…especilaly when using the round-abouts.

      80% of the vehecle breaking this road code are  24,00 vehicle…. do your mats

       

      24,000 vehicle charged a penality fee of $150.00 just on a weekly basis = $3.600,000.00

      you total that for the year, 52 weeks in a  year  times $3,600,000.00 = $ 187,200,000.00

      And dont you fool yourself to even think  the nit wits, will change their nasty driving habits,  and start using their indicators…. when  charged this fee, weekly.

      I swear the drivers we have on our roads today  could pass for zombies.

       

    • Anonymous says:

      There are very many unlicensed, uninsured, and unroadworthy vehicles on the road.  Lets not forget that this 8m figure probably includes testing fees, etc. as well as licensing fees.  Its high time this was addressed.

  32. ANONYMOUS says:

    Historically, when the Police vehicle records were in hard copy form it was understandably an almost impossible job to pro-actively identify vehicles whose annual registration had not been renewed. However, with their current digital database, surely it would be possible to install software to automatically ” sweep ” the vehicle records monthly and produce a list of delinquent vehicles. As the database includes details of ownership and address location they could then follow up by whatever means they determined were most effective – if all new or renewal applications required an email and/or postal address, that would give them a “mail” contact facility. An enhanced deterrent could be to increase the penalty for failure to license a vehicle.

  33. Anonymous says:

    Umm David, are you saying the police and legal department cannot enforce the law against people that owe us 8 million even when you have their names, addresses, bank details, phone numbers, and know what they drive?

    • Anonymous says:

      And is it for the same reason the police dept. cannot arrest all those many CS big shots who have stolen $500,000 worth of gas every year for the last like forever?  You know.  The protected ones.  And we all know who protects them from prosecution.

    • Anonymous says:

      Bank details?

    • Anonymous says:

      When asked why the Officers were warning rather than ticketing we were told because the law hadn't been gazetted yet. Now the Officers are at the schools hopefully these people can be caught.

       

  34. Anonymous says:

    The issue is as it has been for many years: We need Better policing not More policing. I recall years ago Commissioner  Thursfield going on and on and on about the need for more cars and more policemen which he got from governments afraid to lose votes, But the result was no improvement at all in dealing with crime or general police performance. Today, driving from Pease Bay to town, I passed 4 police cars driving leisurely east. Doing what? Going where? Not to set up a road block to catch licence evaders. It is manifestly absurd that all this money is outstanding from unlicencsed vehicles. Can't they run a program on their computers to spit out the names/licence numbers/addresses of these delinquent accounts and go to the peoples homes? . On another matter, on my journey to town today, I drew into Bodden Town Post office to pick up mail. Beside me was a car with TOTALLY black windows ALL around. I watched the occupents (innocent looking people, actually) get into it and you could not see a thing. When I take my car for inspection, an instrument is used to test the tint to see if it is allowable. It ticks me off no end that others are getting away with this and the cops are doing nothing about it. It is this sort of constant "minor" lawbreaking that makes us so cynical about the police and I was DEEPLY unimpressed by Baines' same old same old insinuations about not having enough police. We have more than enough, Mr Baines. I told Thursfield and I'm telling you -make them operate better. You now have closed circuit cameras all over the place which Thursfield didn't have. Should this not have led to a drop in the number of cops you need? That's what technology usually does……….except in the RCIPS it seems.

    • Anonymous says:

      " You now have closed circuit cameras all over the place which Thursfield didn't have. Should this not have led to a drop in the number of cops you need? That's what technology usually does……….except in the RCIPS it seems."

      The 9-1-1 center is the home of the CCTV camera system – not the RCIP.

      http://compasscayman.com/caycompass/2012/04/19/More-than-200-CCTV-cams-installed/

      Per this CayCompass article, police at stations will be able to review footage from the station but will not be able to manipulate the cameras.

      This article from April 2012 refers to Phase I of the CCTV project nearing completion. Has the work actually been completed and has the system been handed over from the vender?

       

       

    • Dred says:

      I am starting to see a pattern developing.

      First it was the road accidents. "worst in years" or some crap like that. Needmore officers on the road. That did not seem to get the public pulse jumping so now its 8 million outstanding.

      It's all about making the public heart pound so they can get more money in the budget.

      The first thing the licensing department is to get rid of any vehicle from their books that has not been licensed since 2004. These are destroyed vehicles and collection is unrealistic.

      Then come back and tell us what that number is.

      I am going to be realistic and tell you the 8 million number is a pile of rubbish. The only way that number could be anyway near that is if we are talking historical going back 30 years of all vehicles that plates were not turned in for. The numbers simply scream BS.

      Let's see what I mean….

      8,000,000 divided by 185 (license + insp) = 43,243 vehicles.

      I know we have a lot of cars in Cayman but really?? Now I say only 2 things here. Either we need fire everyone in licensing OR the numbers are simply STUPID.

      My belief is it just looks outrageous and said to stir up emotion for a HIGHER budget which the police are really good at.

    • Anonymous says:

      Thanks for the laugh. I just LOVE the armchair critics who have never been out there and faced the dangers that those cops do. Sure they are some bad cops, but there are plenty of good cops too, and plenty of positive outcomes recently.

      My favourite quote was your comment about the three police cars heading east – you have no clue what they were doing but you assume they were not setting up roadblocks. Classic.

      Oh and thank you for your highly informed opinon as to the numbers of police officers being "more than enough" with nothing to back up your opinion.

      • Anonymous says:

        You didn't really comment much of substance on the poster's main points 9:30 but you made his/her 4 cars into 3. Perhaps that shows how carefully you reviewed the content.

  35. Anonymous says:

    I bet they are including many cars that were lost to Ivan and never reported as no longer active.  I lost a car to Ivan with the Quincentennial plates.  About three years later, I still had the plates and asked if I could put them on my current car when registering it.  I was told they were accruing fees each year and I owed them three years times the registration fee.  Said no thanks and hung the plate on the wall!  I bet they're still accruing fees on my Ivanized car.

    • Anonymous says:

      Exactly, there are many people out there with their plates and unlicensed vehicles who won't go back to vehicle licensing because of the fees that have accumulated.  Perhaps its time to look at another way of dealing with this to discourage this type of behaviour.

  36. Missa Collecta says:

    Next they can go get all the historical outstanding garbage fees and school fees that went unpaid for so many years. That should cover what is owed to the pension fund……

  37. Anonymous says:

    Blah, blah, blah…….

  38. Twyla Vargas says:

    In respect of un-collected missing vehicle fees, I was very surprised to hear such a high figure.  To say this is because I have never seen the police to be on a more thorough, hunt and search,  vigilent mission,  in combating the process of having  vehicles licenced for the past months.  I mean, they really left no stones un turned.  Even if your licence plates was a little faded out or muddy,  with a straight face they were saying "You need a new one"

    I am very sure they will find a way to have all vehicle licenced in a road worthy condition.

    On other thoughts, I support the allocation of funds to the police budget. I do believe that we should never become stingy with allowing the RCIP to have sufficient funds to work with.  The RCIP has definately stepped up to the pulpit in many areas since the past year.  They are doing excellent work in combating crime,  considering the serious criminality which we had been faced with in past months.  I believe they now have realized, and accepted that the public voice on crime is "enough is enough" 

    Lets not cut the coat of the RCIP short, they are doing a  very good job.  Maybe we do not know every detail of what they are doing, but like granny always say. "Everything good fe eat is not always good fe talk.

  39. Anonymous says:

    Jamacian ,Honduran,Pilipino nationals that drive without licences or insurance, you can see the state of thier vehicles on the road and the police do nothing about it. Now thats a fact Jack. 

  40. You're So Vain says:

    $8 million missing from the public purse in connection with uncollected fees from unlicensed vehicles on the road

     

     

    Say what?

    A 12 month fee for a private motor car is $160 and the highest licensing fee is $1000 for a Hummer…

    8 million?

    Is someone doing math with their toes or are there 8 THOUSAND unlicensed hummers roving the roads?

    Hummmmmmm

     

    • Anonymous says:

      Licensing fees, testing fees, registration fees, etc.  Look at the number of unused vehicles lying around Cayman Vehicle still with their plates on and accumulatng fees.  Vehicle fees does not mean license fees only.

  41. Laughable says:

    Thanks to Facebook groups keeping me up to date on locations of roadblocks I’ll never have to license or insure my truck! Thank you social media!

    • Anonymous says:

      Soooooo true! I have one bbm contact that broadcasts messages at least 3 times a day where all the roadblocks are. LMAO!!!