Cayman lottery
About 10 years ago the government set up a committee to look into the potential of a lottery in Cayman. I was asked to chair the committee. We found that around 15,000 persons were in the 'Numbers' database at the time and in an unofficial poll found that 70% of the public supported having a lottery in the Cayman Islands … about half that amount supported casinos.
Based on information gathered, we estimated that around $700,000 per week was put into the Numbers system in Cayman, with some $200,000 plus returned to players. We found that quite a bit was being spent weekly on the Florida lottery and also online lotteries from around the world. We were also made aware of card, domino, blackjack and such games being played regularly for money.
We estimated conservatively that a legal lottery would begin with around $50 million per year being placed into it and that number would double very shortly afterward, with international players (cruise ship passengers, etc) being added to the mix. Of that, the return directly to government would be $20-30 million per year shorlty after start.
We did receive some negativefeedback from the churches, who we also had discussions with; their biggest concerns seem to be the casinos. Given the size of the 'Numbers database', it is clear that churchgoers were also purchasing Numbers. Of course, a downside to gaming is that folks who can least afford to will spend on a lottery but they do now anyhow.
We looked at lottery systems around the world, from daily/weekly system to online lotteries to lotteries such as "El Gordo", the Spanish lottery which has 4 or so mega-draws each year. We communicated with Camelot, which runs the UK lottery. We proposed to government at the time, based on our research, that the lottery be set up here and run by an independent company licensed by government (similar to Camelot) and that a percentage fee for such a license be paid directly to government.
So … I say all that, to say that lotteries are welcomed (wanted) in the Cayman Islands and that the government can make money from allowing one to be created here. The Numbers game is live and active, so we thought the country should make money from the existing gambling. My gut reaction … it is time to legalise the lottery, folks.
Vote in the CNS Poll: Do you think there should be a legal Cayman lottery?
Category: Viewpoint
My dear, I hope that you actually read the article. Gambling is happening regardless, and if the Government developed and actively maintained an entity that monitored and hopefully protected these people (aka cash in as well) from immoral schemers, then it would be just. (Side Note: Please audit the entity CIG)
Some people spend money, the Government collects (some of it) and the whole public will benefit.
Also, please stop it. The church should not be used as a tool to force people into single sided views. This is why a large majority of the public are against church views regardless of their intentions. You are unintentionally bashing the church imagine and making them seem like a bully, and in doing so making God (or what ever deity/s you worship) look like a cranky old person that likes to cuss everyone that steps on their lawn from their porch.
God loves and respects everyone and thing. Even if we don't want to believe that, because some hater says so.
What I am sure is that God would buy a lotto ticket…think about it…he knows everything so he would be sure to win everytime!!
I want a casino,and lotto but i am afraid that the population on cayman wont support a viable operation, I would like to point out that in Roatan population 100k that there casino sucks and is gross. It just cant get the energy required to work. 2. the casinos in the bahamas suck and are mostly like funeralhomes ….that said Atlantis in the bahamas dosnt suck but that is because it it is really not a casino. they have a marina 10 restaurants, a waterpark, 25 stores and 1000,s of hotel rooms and lastly they have a casino.That said if cayman built a mega resort like atlantis it would do well,…. maybe….. but do we really want a mega resort that would be required to support a casino?
How come Burns Conolly can post an article that has been sensationalize on your wall for weeks, and someone else post their viewpoint in no time it is replaced by another viewpoint. What's up with that CNS?
CNS: Sometimes we get a lot of viewpoints sent to us and sometimes not. As soon as someone sends us a worthy commentary it will be posted.
14:30 totally agree with you and if BIG MAC gets back in or someone who is addictive and have the power to make decisions for this country. Then dog eat our supper!
Burns tax is enivatable and honestly speaking the rich should be tax the most. After all it is they who this country has been mastazied to accommodate. Gone are the days of bare foot man and Andy Martin!
Forget about Mac….if we have direct tax all happens is that you and I pay….the rich know how to avoid paying…in fact that's why most are here now!!
"mastazied' what is that supposed to mean?
It isa reference to a condition in which the victim is rendered into a state of mindless compliance to the whim of Mac, named after the drooling reaction "Yes, masta" to all requests by Big Mac. To use the term in a sentence, "Foolio spent years humiliating himself as an MLA once he was fully mastazied"
Foolio's tail was actually wagging him until he encountered Alden's special brand of psychiatric treatment.
solution:
bring in gaming/casino legislation for a 24 month trial run….. after 18 months, study the overall affects and then legislate accordingly…
I assume you are joking.
So people will come in and set up a casino with the risk that it wil be closed down in 18 months? You are either an idiot or you take the rest of us for idiots.
$20-$30 million per year to Government which it would then turn 'round and spend $40-$60 million more per year with nothing to show for it.
If the aim is solely to improve government's finances then it is a waste of time. You could give government all of the money. It would still spend more.
So to put it in the context of this discussion, government is addicted to spending as sure as a junkie is to drugs or a compulsive gambler to betting. So the question is, do you wish to facilitate government's distructive free spending habit?
I don't. Stop enabling government with funds. Don't feed the beast and maybe it will stop growing or even get smaller.
It's not time for a lottery Burns. It's past time for smaller government.
I totally agree with you regarding a smaller government. It is clear that between the size of our civil service and the number of people on social services that it is unsustainable for our revenue system. We have to reduce both and do so quickly. Having said that, our report to government recommended that these funds were earmarked for uses not currently supported by government and not as a supplement to government. At the time we looked at the UK and they were sending their funds through a non-governmental system to needy causes. A few of the USA lotteries were doing the same. Our committee at the time agreed with you that we did not want to just dump this money in treasury. Burns CONOLLY.
We need both. Smaller Government AND diversification of revenues. AND yes you can have it both ways.
Sam put put I could not agree with you more. I have never bought a number in Cayman but I have no problem with anyone else who wants to spend their money that way.
I too would like to see the numbers game decrimilised so that people who are carrying out an activity that is harming no one, do not have to go to jail.
HOWEVER I don't want government to make one red cent from this which will just be wasted. I also do not want to hear that the money is earmarked for education as Government will still waste the funds that they no longer have to spend on education.
what about 2 million visitors to the island…people on holiday do things they would not normally do at home…look at Las Vegas…so a lottery (perhaps UK style-totally transparent as to where the money is going) or casino's couldbe a winner..
I am all for bolstering the public purse in new ways that do not involve taxes or fee increases.
But let's get real people.
What is it about the track record of the elected/administrative governments of, say, the past 12 years, that might possibly give anyone the slightest degree of confidence that a public lottery could actually be implimented, let alone managed successfully?
Read what Burns said, the government would only issue a license and monitor it…an independent company would operate it.
it takes a government here 4 years to do a pedestrian crossing…….. issueing and running a gaming license would take even longer….
Not if the company is run by a poltically connected family. Then they can sort things out very quickly.
nothing good can possible come of this. Cayman would end up importing more 'specialist' labor. The 'fat cats' would control this and the poor working class Caymanians would lose theirsavings into it to booth. Not to mention further erosion to our social values and pool influence on our youth. Do your research people. Don't be seduced by avarice into believing that this could possibly be of any benefit to Cayman.
The hell with the churches! If the bible thumpers don't want to play… then don't! Who are they to make that decision for the rest of the population and the government?
Illegal gambling is already big here so the social issue they try and exaggerate is rubbish. Your taking it off the streets and making it legal where it can be taxed. Do it already!
I think the term is "To hell with the churches…". "The hell…" doesn't make a lot of sense. Otherwise I agree completely. Start a lottery and let the Ritz build a world-class casino.
Gambling in any form is evil.
My church will fight the importation of gambling into our beloved islands tooth and nail. We are holding a series to bingos to raise funds for the fight.
But gambling leads to fornication and drinking and neglect of family and fornication and squandered hopes and dreams and fornication… My 6 baby muddas all said so cause I bet dem dey not get pregnant but der it wuz..
Let's have a referendum!
Every1 knows that Cash pot is the lotto of our choice in Cayman.
lets not have a divisise, time consuming, epxpensive referendum….lets get something done!!!
Macau 's government makes so much mone y
it returns funds to its citizens every year
Just be sure to make it impossible for goverment officials to buy their number with money drawn from a goverment card at a ATM
Or swap it for fuel bought with a CIG card!
This is a complex issue which brings tremdous social cost and social damage that corrudes the local culture. For some idea of the social cost of gambling read this: http://www.walkerd.people.cofc.edu/pubs/JGS1999.pdf
I think you are missing the point. Gambling is already prevalent here in Cayman, and the CIG is not benefiting any. Furthermore, it is not scoffed upon by the majority of the society, nor by the authorities. Therefore, policing it (for whatever justifiable reasons) results in diminishing returns.
He/she did not miss the point. Just being an idiot. Raffles okay, Bingo okay. Numbers Okay. Lottery BAAAD, Casino BAAAD. Idiots. We are all gambling one way or the other. Numbers are so prevalent even Police are buying (ooops). Even people in your own congregation, maybe even you, are buying them. All we are saying is let the government have some so we can pay our bills.
ooh a nice casino boat to run out international waters and back.. sounds like a WINNER…
Anyone you know have such a vessel?
weekend at bernies?
don't you mean wessel?
…and is it sacred?
I'm not sure a lottery would be a good way to go here. It would not bring any money into Cayman form elsewhere, and the population is too small for the prizes to be attractive or the returns to be worthwhile.
licensing a casino on the other hand would bring money into cayman, create jobs, and generate revenue for the government.
obviously it would upset the imaginaryfriend brigade, but Cayman has to plug the gap in its public finances somehow
You should read Dale Carnegie's 'How to Win Friends and Influence People'. Hint: it is not by insulting them.
You smell.
Too small to be attractive? I guess that's why no one goes to Kirk Freeport during the Christmas period…
Burns,
Well said and anyone who says otherwise has thier head in the clouds. Illegal lotto only benefits the criminals in Cayman, who guess what, reinvest that money into drugs, guns and more criminal enterprises.
Same arguement for the legalization of marijuana but consider the lotto first.
No, we do not want all vices made legal. Just the ones our Mother Country has legalized.
Every day I see somebody selling raffle tickets for churchs, field trips, charities etc. Is that not gambling as well????
Please save the hypocrisy and let Govt get the revenue as they desperately need it. I also need a chance at the 50 mill as well.
Otherwise.
I predict that this will lead to almost no revenue for public projects, will increase hardship in poor families and will make a considerable amount of money for a rich politically connected family whose company will get the licence.
More revenue from a new source will only mean more money for Cayman’s politicians to waste and steal. You know I’m right.
When you want to know the financial viability of a project, you put an architect in charge of the committee.
When you want to know the environmental impact of a project, then you put the accountants in charge of the committee.
When you need good legal advice, that's when you gather a few Barker's Park Rangers from West Bay to interpret the law.
It's hard to understand why McKeeva's last term was not as successful as we all expected it to be.
LMAO…you're so right!
Conolly said this study was done 10 years ago not in McKeeva's last government. Like everything else it just sits on a shelf somewhere.
I hope that I am (forever?) correct in using this term, but the study was done during McKeeva's penultimate term in power.
Burns forgot to add the government expenses of purchasing lottery tickets for the unemployed and indigent.
In addition to paying rent, water, electricity, and cellphone service for the 8,000 people who are also getting food vouchers, we need to add $20 per week for each of those individuals which means government will pay out $8,000,000 per year, and in return perhaps 3 or 4 people each year will no longer need government "assistance" after they win the lottery.
For those advocating casinos, we need to get over the silly notion that we can compete in that kind of market. No little country can possibly hope to play at that game with any real success when Las Vegas and the like are also sitting at the table.
What we will end up with is some god awful sh*tholes like the casinos in Turks and Caicos. I have seen the Gaming Saloon just by the cruise ship peir at Grand Turk and while our poiticians might think a wood sided, ship shaped, barn with a few slot machines is a wonderful thing, it is completely low brow and awful.
The only hope we have for a viable tourism model is based on limiting supply. That is why high end tourists used to come here. We lost the plot when we embraced large sized hotels and cruise ships. The well heeled mostly moved on to somewhere more quiet where they could buy an expensive residence and look out on a less crowded beach.
If Gerry and Renard are completely honest, they will acknowledge that in the old days they sold a good deal more expensive jewellery to a smaller number of that type of tourist than they now make from bulk sales of tanzanite to the cruise herd.
Could not disagree with you more.
The Cayman Islands is not Turks & Caicos Islands. Let’s not compare the two please.
The Cayman Islands, UNLIKE T&C, being a tax free jurisdiction would attract gamblers who would look at the possibility of opening accounts and keeping their winnings here to invest.
This comment you made was very naïve to be honest.
Sure. Makes sense. You are a clever fellow obviously. Would you like to buy some acreage that I have in the middle of North Sound?
I have been to Provo and Grand Turk. We are only a slip away from becoming that sort of mess. And believe me when I say that only the recent election saved us and our financial industry from direct intervention by the UK government. it can all disappear very quickly indeed.
The UK would never want another mess like TCI…remember our budget is $600million…they sure don't ever want to have that on their shoulders. FCO screwed up in TCI and they know it now…they will never do that again…
This is basic single entry bookeeping. Burns has failed to include the cost of operating a Lottery, which would include the introduction of a Gaming Commission and another Government Department to oversee, inspect and regulate the system. I am sure that with staff, recruited from overseas (of course) and office expenses we would blow about $50 million annually. So the end result will be yet another losing entity that we simply cannot afford. Get real!!!
That was taken into account….the lottery would make money for our government as long as they only audited it and did not operated it. If it was a lottery like El Gordo it would make a lot of money for us. Burns Conolly.
We took it into consideration. A lottery can work, plain and simple. Its really only a decision on the TYPE of lottery and its administration. Burns.
It's you that need to get real!! Even if Burns did fail to include the cost of administrating the lottery, it is sure is hell overly exaggerated by you. Simply put, lotteries inherently are profitable (actually very profitable). Few personnel and computer systems are all that is needed for an administrative team. We can go on kidding ourselves that gaming can be over looked as a source of income, and that it's not 'holy' (yeah, that type of mentality is another topic). The hard cold truth is – We are a service based economy, our old model of sustainability has expired, and revenue from lotteries and casinos comprise part of the ‘need to implement now category’.
That's a lot of assumptions. Maybe in designing the lottery someone would keep in mind that it is meant to raise revenue and will therefore need an administration system that ensures it is profitable?
Really? $50M ? are you serious? Which regulatory body currently spends $50M ? I would like a job there. a Gaming comission would not cost that much to operate and the actualy cost would be less that $1M if done properly. Stop making up figures!
The Turtle Farm would cost $1m p.a. to run if run properly too.
All you have to do is pick an existing lottery operator in another country to also sell tickets here and pay a tax on each dollar that is bet. You put the financial crimes unit in charge of regulating the sales and payouts. The operator can be charged for the cost of regulation as well. Cayman is too little to have a lottery all by itself, and trying to pick a local operator will be an avalanche of graft and corruption. Better to sign up with a multistate lottery in the US or Mexico and participate in bigger jackpots and let them do the work of sales and operations.
Yeah, that would work. lol
Goooo…..Right Ahead!!!
I agree 100% Government would benfit from it they are all time crying that they are broke.
Wake up Caymanian, it’s time live in modern time.
100% Caymanian.
Burns, your assumption appears to be that the existing numbers game will be overtaken by the govt run lottery. There is no evidence that any such thing will occur making your argument for a lottery fundamentally flawed. A more realistic study which did not appear to be done by your committee is the feasibilty of a govt lottery in addition to the existing numbers game and other forms of gambling such as the Florida lottery.
We took that into consideration. Illegal lotteries such as the numbers game have been shown to fade away when legal gaming is available. Burns Conolly.
If I had the choice between a sanctioned, legal lottery and an illegal numbers game, I am with the legal one every time…no guarantee on the numbers game at all…
The only people who benefit from 'gaming', in all its guises, are the companies that run them. The players don't benefit, the Government's don't benefit and the public certainly don't benefit. All the public, Government and players are left with are empty pockets and rising crime and anti-social behaviour. And a bill for the Gambling Counselling the governemnt will be expected to set up to help people deal with an addiciton we can keep out of our small country now.
You can also do an unoficial survey to find lots of people in support of legalising pot and private companies willing to distribute it. (Think of the opertunities for entraperneurship!) and Government could tax it to the hilt and people would still take a chance with it. Doesn't mean promoting it is the right thing to do, Burns.
You really should not use such big words when your spelling is so poor!
Cayman simply cannot sustain a meaningful lottery given its tiny population.
I agree with you totally. What are we waiting for?
Yup. Makes sense.
Legalize and tax all vice.
Vice creates a mess that govenment must clean up. You might as well legalize it so that govenment has the funds to help clean up the mess.
If it is illegal. The criminals make all the profit and contribute nothing to cleaning up the mess they create.
Just be careful. The government, greedy as it is, just might become the criminal.
Very scientific estimates of a return to government of $30 million to start.
Here are some estimates of my own.
I come into contact with about 200 people on a regular basis. Friends, co-workers, customers, front counter staff of government agencies, shop clerks, restaurant staff.
Of these I would say two play a number on a regular basis. 2-3 times a month, $10-$50 a time.
In all good studies I would say plus or minus 10% in this case is acceptable.
So by my calculations, 600 people or 1% of the population (540-660) play $30-$150 a month ($27- $165) call it $70,000 a month with a return to the players of about $20,000.
Based on this I am conservatively estimating moneys played would be about $1,000,000 a year and after the operating costs of about $5,000,000 a year the gaming department would become an ideal target as a government authority to privatise.
You are clearly moving in the wrong circles. The Numbers game is huge here.
As huge as those big homes in Patricks Island?
It would be a new industry. Definitely some new jobs and huge revenue raising for govt. I don't see the harm long as its regulated properly.
Beware of your figures!
Your population is about a third of Jersey's where the lottery has been run for a few decades now. It was fairly succesful in the early years, but is less so now because the prizes are a fraction of those on the UK lottery which started some years after Jersey. The take for such a scheme will be directly related to population and yes, that is regardless of people passing through on business or holiday. Jersey had to combine with their sister Island Guernsey to make theirs viable, and even then it is frankly too small a base, you would do well to take advice from the Channel Islands Lottery office for precise numbers.
One small point though, as ever, the Churches have great sway amongst the politicians, in my humble opinion, that is sad. We know the Church is against sin, and so they should be, but they shouldnt be the sole arbitors on what sin is!
Who do you propose to be the other arbiters of what sin is – McKeeva?
I agree and I also say that Casinos should be looked at also. I believe we can set it up the way they do in the Bahamas. I would like to see summer tournaments to balance out our tourism sector. We need to get away from kissing up to churchs and start doing right for the country.
Gambling is not "doing right" for the country. Take the churches out of it, it is bad for our society.
Doing right by the country simply means taking the "religious" element out of things and looking at them at their face value. Simply put Ganbling via Casinos and Lotteries would lead to more revenues into the Cayman Islands. Done correctly we be no worse off than we are today as we do it all now EVEN THE CHURCHES and CHURCH GOERS.
Err…SOME churches and SOME churchgoers. My point is that it has a negative impact on society, and that negative impact would increase exponentially once it is open and legitimised. Don't be blinded by money.
A lottery for the public benefit will never happen because the politicians have not been able to figure out how to get their hands on the profits.
It's a lot like all the towering mountains of scrap metal at the landfills in all three islands. Instead of cleaning up the island by letting private contractors ship it overseas at no cost to the public purse, the "poluticians" have convinced themselves that it is worth millions and that there must be a way to get their greedy hands on a vast windfall profit. So it just sits there accumulating and, as usual, NOTHING gets done.
Is there any truth to the rumor that the Dart Group has already commissioned Architectural drawings for a casino, to be built on the cleared site near the old Marriott Hotel next to the public beach?
Drawings are fine. Even the Ritz had a Casino provision as part of its early planning. Developers have to consider these things at the conceptual phase so that they can adapt if the rules change say 5, 10, 20 years in the future.
Really Sir?? Is nothing sacred to you?? Does anything go provided it makes money? As a regular visitor to the Cayma Island, I am particularly attracted to the christian culture and in my understanding this extends to gambling and no music on Sundays. Practically everywhere else in the world I take my family, I have to be on constant guard against negative and the Cayman Islands provide me with some small reprive from that. In fact this is part of the particular charm of the Cayman Islands, as important as the seven mile beach and the diving, that brings me here.
Beware of the unintended consequences of what you are asking? I dare say that should the Cayman Islands legalise gambling and lotteries, my family and most of our friends and colleagues will be unlikely to continue to bring our families here. As a result you will be damaging your tourism product and reducing your appeal for families. Further, it is commonly recognised that lotteries and gambling are not positive ane productive activities and do not bring prosperity to a society. Instead, it brings wealth for the organisers at the expense of the poor who are induced into parting with their meagre earnings by the image of token winners.
Cayman please continue to resist damaging your special culture in this manner.
God Forbid Mammon! Matthew 6:24……"You can not serve God and mammon"1 Timothy 6:10…." For the love of money is the root of all evil; which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows"
So why do the churches want 10% of everybody's income?
It is called direct taxation. It is what churches thrive on.
Anon 1717 because the bible they believe in says so.
And still more than 50% of the world I believe are christians.
Actually only about 1.5B of the 7B are Christians.
2.1 billion Christians. Muslims are about 1.5 billion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations
Sir! You may "visit" the island(s) regularly, but you obviously never pay attention to anything that goes on here either during a visit or when reading CNS. More likely your post is a joke!
don't hold your breath…we live in a place where you can't dance after midnight on saturday or buy groceries on a sunday……
so?? personally i see that as a good thing! get used to it!
You forgot but you can go to the hotel bar and drink up a storm…but you can't buy a bread at a grocery store BUT you can at a Gas Station…..only God knows how he keeps track of all the crap we do…. Gas Station can open but a Supermarket……Can buy bear but not bread……geeesh
well said burns…what you say makes perfect sense…… but we live in the caymankind wonderland, so don't expect anything to be done anytime soon……
I agree count on me to spread the word.
Time to bring in casinos too, and to legalise gambling generally. Why shouldn't I be able to have a friendly wager with my friends to make a game of dominoes or cards more interesting?
XXX Lotteries are regressive taxation on the poor that will only increase social problems and harm children. If there is to be revenue generated from taxation, high end casinos with entry restrictions are the way to go. The problem for the Cayman lottery model is that since the numbers of participants will be very limited it will never had a big enough jackpot to attract funds away from larger onshore lotteries. Your references to El Gordo shows how naive and out of touch you really are on this one. It is the jackpot that matters to drive lottery participation. Numbers will still be run whatever happens – they are still run in the US even though lotteries are prevalent. Virtually nothing will be gained by introducing a lottery. Lotteries are the idea of the lazy minded to extract money from the poor to be applied to middle class interests.
The tiny town of Deadwood, South Dakota (pop. 1,300) charges 4% of Casino revenue in taxes and raises US$7 million a year.
Deadwood also has the largest proportion of Viagra takers in the US
Is that why it's called 'Deadwood'…:)
I beg to ask the question who would be the Camelot? You or Mckeeva? Why don't you suggest more programs to help the youth? Whydon't you suggest doing more for the elderly? Too long we have been looking at sinful acts to cover our greedy ways.
Why do we have to be like everyone else? We see what the other countries are like with the drugs, prostitutions, gangs, brothels and the list goes on….these are already here however on a small scale. Gambling /lottery will change this country and it wont be for the better……
Our report to government suggested that funds coming from the lottery should be directed to programmes currently unfunded by CIG. We recommended 26% of the overall take be spent on youth, sports, arts& culture, education, elderly, heritage, community and the environment. Only 15% would go directly to government in fees. 50% would go in prizes. The remaining would be administration, operators profit and ticket sellers commission. Burns Conolly.
Drugs, gangs, prostitution, brothels???…seriously??…they are here already…where are you living, in a cave on the Bluff in Cayman Brac? Wake up man.
Thank you for a thoughtful comment, Burns, but these damn stupid dinosaur Old Testament church people here will never support it, just as they will never support Sunday Opening, though both activities are carried on anyway. It's all about Caymanian Heritage, you see, which includes gay bashing, calling non Christians such as Hindus derogatory names (remember the major player in our society who did that?), trying to preserve useless sections of road because "our forefathers used it" (Dart wasn't around then or they would have used his road), building masses of church buildings with money that could be used for social programs (have you seen the number of signs "future home of the church" of silly people etc) and so on. The younger generation is slowly coming through and will eventually change all this stupidness but until then, the politicians of all persuasion are scared to act for fear of being thought of as anti christian. Pathetic.