Pope Francis: “Who am I to judge a gay person?”
(CNS): Pope Francis has softened the Vatican's attitudes to homosexuality but affirmed its resistance to female priests. While taking questions from reporters on the plane back to Rome from Brazil last week, the Pope was asked how he would respond to learning that a cleric in his ranks was gay, though not sexually active. "If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?" he said in Italian. "You can't marginalise these people." Francis' predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, formally barred men with what the Vatican deemed "deep-seated" homosexuality from entering the priesthood.
But Pope Francis said gay clergymen should be forgiven. When someone sins and confesses, he said, God not only forgives but forgets. "We don't have the right to not forget," he said.
"The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well," Pope Francis said in a wide-ranging interview with Vatican journalists. "It says they should not be marginalised because of this but that they must be integrated into society."
The pontiff also addressed the question of the Vatican's reported "gay lobby", saying he hasn’t run into significant resistance to reform inside the Vatican, and joked that if there really is a “gay lobby” he hasn’t yet seen it stamped on anyone’s ID cards. However, he condemned lobbies in general.
"The problem is not having this orientation," he said. "We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem."
Asked about Italian media reports suggesting that a group within the church tried to blackmail fellow church officials with evidence of their homosexual activities, the Pope stressed that Catholic teaching calls for homosexuals to be treated with dignity but it was something else entirely to conspire to use private information for blackmail or to exert pressure.
Francis was responding to reports that a trusted aide was involved in an alleged gay tryst a decade ago. He said he investigated the allegations according to canon law and found nothing to back them up. But he took journalists to task for reporting on the matter, saying the allegations concerned matters of sin, not crimes like sexually abusing children.
On the role of women in the Church, he said: "We cannot limit the role of women in the Church to altar girls or the president of a charity, there must be more. "But with regards to the ordination of women, the Church has spoken and says no … That door is closed."
Category: World News
There seems to be a lot of confusion over this matter. Ultimately, God is the giver of life. Jesus said that those who are of the truth will hear His voice.
Funnily, He told the religious crowd that they were of their father, the devil. So deceived people base their opinion of God on the religious crowd and they end up being seriously derelict.
God is love. God does not talk to arrogant people, but should a human soul humble itself, there is no secret that He will not withold.
If you haven't tasted a strawberry, you are not in a position to describe its flavour. You may have an opinion, but it is just that, an opinion.
"Taste and see that the Lord is good."
And this is the same religion that allowed a fat old XXXXer of a priest to rip into one of my girlfriends during confession because we were sleeping together but had no intention of getting married. So according to the Pope you can pound the fudge to your heart's content but healthy consensual heterosexual sex between two adults is a sin. I've been an atheistsince I was in my teens and it's one decision (punching out that priest is another) I will never regret. Got no problem with the gay community, happy to go out drinking with a number of overtly homosexual friends as long as they respect my preferences, but even they think this pronouncement is a bit perverse.
This has been misreported by the press. The pope was not saying that homosexual practises are OK, but rather that we should discriminate against persons who have that orientation. Orientation versus homosexual acts.
Oops. That should have been "should NOT discriminate".
“Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me.”
Jesus stood for protecting the persecuted, so I think his compassion would be for the gays.
Ruling by fear, George Carlin got it right: “Religion has convinced people that there's an invisible man … living in the sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn't want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer, and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you. He loves you and he needs money.”
Pope Francis is a cool cat. Keep on rocking the Catholic church I say, he might make some see the light of humanity, compassion and tolerance.
I always love the religious boys, the underlying sense of guilt makes it seem so much more fun.
There may be a god, but religion has nothing useful to say about the subject. Hate and fear is all they sell.
Of course you are the only one who has anything useful to say on the subject. What an idiot.
See – this is the hate starting up.
If that's hate then you are definitely guilty of it.
I don't have a problem of homosexuality I have a problem of the Catholic Church on a whole IGNORED the fact that priests were raping young boys!!! This was ignored also by the Popes who were Popes at the time. Paying the victims does not justify the crime and it doesn't make the person who committed the crime pay for his actions!
i like the term unviersal creator. logic > religion
The Pope did go on to reference the Church's teachings on homosexuality which is homosexual orientation is not a sin but when one participates in homosexual acts it becomes a sin. What he shared was nothing novel. It's been the teachings of the Church from time immemorial and documented decades ago.
References to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries andin different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
Lots of mixed messages here. The new Pope says he is not one to judge gays. Right, on that count. But, goes on to say the Church, presumably as history has shown the ultimate word on the interpretation of the Bible, would never allow women to be ordained as priests. Can't find that written anywhere in the Bible, or even any mention of excluding women. So, the Pope can admit to having no right to judge gays, but doesn't find a problem with his church judging women as being unworthy to follow the priesthood. Another example of an outdated and out of touch patriarchal religion. Which continues blissfully to marginalize half the world's population. The Roman Catholic Church will never succeed in preventing continuing sexual abuse of children (by and large young boys) by it's priests (all men) until it stops being an exclusive and male dominated religion. Or club. But after all that what it was designed to be, and it had nothing whatsoever to do with faith. Or religion.
The popester is irrelevant..
How can you trust anyone who wears clothing that looks like their grandmother's doileis and wax poetic about the existence or non-existence of limbo all the while preaching against condoms and protecting pedophilia clerics.
However, the Vatican is an incredible museum of fine art and the catholic church knows how to put on a show that makes all the other religions extremely jealous. Their gold encrusted pointy hats show that they are in touch with a god that does not exist. It is all about money and control.
OK, a reasonable start, now how about letting the women decide what to do with their bodies…
Fine, so long as what they're doing does not involve taking another life.
i dont get it …when you are a teacher , you behave like a teacher
when you are the boss of a company , you behave like the boss
when you are the president of USA you behave like the President
and when you ARE the POPE you should behave like the Pope
not like a school boy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Twelve years of Catholic education turned me into an athiest. Full stop.
That is because Catholicism is a gross perversion of Christianity. Vicar of Crist, really? Can forgive you your sins, really? Holds the place of God on earth, really? The authority to change devine law, really? Can anyone say blasphemy? Not to mention, almost everything believed and practiced in that system comes dirctly from paganism.
22.04..spot on..they stole those acts and rites to get people into the catholic church….nothing original of their own to offer…
They are also the oldest running coporation in earth's history.
First of all, much of the Catholic doctrine you have cited has been modified or abandoned in more modern times. Secondly, and more importantly, the vast bulk of Christian dogma and celebrations are derived from paganism – this is not limited to those which are uniquely associated with the Roman Catholic church (Christmas and Easter are two of the most obvious examples which immediately come to mind). It is immensely hypocritical for you, as one flavour of Christian, to be deriding another flavour of Christianity, simply because their beliefs lack intellectual or historical credibility.
None of it hasbeen modified or abandoned. Just read the New AdventCatholic Enyclopedia. Add to that "Pontifex Maximus", the title of a pagan Roman priest of priests and also of the Roman Emperor, which has been assumed for the pope.
It is also nonsense to claim that the "vast bulk of Christian dogma and celebrations are derived from paganism". At Easter we celebrate the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. At Christmas we celebrate his birth. True Christian celebrations are not about Santa Claus, Christmas trees or Easter eggs. The celebration of the last supper on Holy Thursday is deeply connected to the Jewish passover although they now run on different calendars.
Of course you can draw certain vague parallels in other religions but that does not mean that that is where Christianity drew its inspiration from.
God still loves you with an everlasting love, ready and willing to forgive.
Try another road.
10.11 Hope you are not suggesting some dodgey back alley?
Come to my church!
Regards,
Tom Cruise.
Infallibility of the Pope has gone out the window. I'm sure we have several hundred christian preachers in Cayman who can tell him how wrong he is on this one.
only God can judge
Why isn't God on the X Factor panel then?
Actually I'm pretty good at judging too – I judge that you've been brainwashed by powerseekers using religion as a tool for mind control. Free yourself of empty beliefs my friend – join the new religion of science.
He is an endearing individual and seems to connect with the masses which is a good thing.
However, when it comes to Catholic issues I am more concerned about the safety and welfare of sexually abused children at the hands of the clergy than the "plight" of homosexual adults.
He has already rocked the establishment in a number of ways which was long overdue – I look forward to more action from Papa Francis.
Who knows, we may finally witness a prominent figure doing some genuine good in the world today, because the typical western president, prime minister and politician aren't worth two of their fiat cents (pence).
Speaking of fiat money – I trust he doesn't go as far as challenging that particular network. If so we can look forward to another JFK-esque public brain splattering – only this time in the convertible Pope Mobille.
Hmmm … I wonder who they'll blame it on this time – probably Zimmerman.
😉
Why do you have to spoil what began as a reasonable statement by turning it into yet another anti western, mini rant?
You really are a one trick pony.
…or perhaps you simply lack the foreisght to see the clear relevance of my post.
I could have expanded further but decided against – because those that get it, get it – those that don't … well, they reply with bitchy little posts like yours.
Run along now.
P.S. Are you not concerned that my opinion means that much to you? Hmmm … aren't you?
🙂
Your opinion is of no meaning to me at all but it is of great interest. Your sole "trick" of being able to turn virtually any topic into an anti UK diatribe is fascinating and provides me and many others, with great amusement. I hope that doesn't sound patronising. It's not meant to be.
At the moment, 33 people agree with me while "those that get it" number just two. (You and your Pilipino Housekeeper), I assume.
To further our entertainment, let’s see how you get with providing an anti British slant on these:
1 Mohammed Morsi appears to be in good health.
2 A stolen Stradivarius, missing for two years, has been recovered.
3 A new record time of 7.3 seconds has been set in solving Rubik’s cube.
Go on. You can do it.
An Admirer
Ok, you are obviously an over-sensitive Brit however, I fail to see how your disposition relates to my post. Where did I refer to the UK? In fact, judging by the content of my post, any logical person would assume the USA was in mind at the time of penning.
You and your friends really ought to get over yourselves.
I think I'm getting to you
Oh, and another thing … what is it with you and your constant reference to my "Philipino Housekeeper"?
Are you the same person that has made it their life mission to decipher my racial and national background and continually injects snide remarks here on CNS in that effort?
You truly are a sad, sad case.
Bit of advice – never allow the life of another to consume you like you have … especially an anonymous blogger. I could be friggin Prince Harry for all you know.
(smh)
Nah, whodatis, Prince Harry is quite intelligent..plus he has an all consuming love of the uK, unlike you with your obssesive hatred.
There is nothing worse, Whodatis, than someone who thinks they are really clever but actually is a numbskull, trying to prove that he is really smart. In fact that person is so dumb, they cannot actually get their heads around the fact that they are so dumb, and so go on thinking they are clever…Whodatis..you got a real problem man, go take an IQ test, maybe that will prove that your need to post on here is pointless..
Re: "There is nothing worse, Whodatis, than someone who thinks they are really clever but actually is a numbskull, trying to prove that he is really smart. In fact that person is so dumb, they cannot actually get their heads around the fact that they are so dumb, and so go on thinking they are clever…"
I could not agree more.
just proving the point whodatis…just you carry on proving it..
Oh dear … aaaaaand again, eh??
You are really making my day, buddy!
😉
But you did expand further.
You wrote " …aren't worth two of their fiat cents (pence). " That addition of pence was because you were concerned that the reader might not throw the UK under the bus along with western Europe. Despite what you say, you don't like the idea that someone doesn't get it – let's face it, it's those that don't get it that you want to wind up.
Pence: The Power of one Word
I was going to ignore this but, nah …
So, to conclude, we see the power of a single word, don't we?
You (and your friends) are much too sensitive and really ought to take a chill pill. The paranoia is quite disturbing.
* President. Cents. JFK. Convertible (as opposed to cabriolet). Zimmerman. Those are all terms, characters and historical references that you somehow skipped over and managed to dig into Super-Duper-Defender-of-All-Things-UK mode on the account of a single word in a lenghty post.
Come on now …
(smh)
Oh dear, that's a lot of words for someone who doesn't care!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23517977
Now, Whodatis brought this issue up many many times to highlight English "corruption". Is he going to say sorry now? Why even ask, the man is incapable of saying "I was wrong".
I do not think it applies to western politicians in particular. Power corrupts everywhere – even in your backyard. On the other I can also find plenty of examples of the opposite, examples of good prominent be people standing out – from every corner of the world.
I know you don't care and are mostly enjoying taunting us westerners (being a scandinavian myself) which is always a pleasure and fun to read.
On another topic….do you think Mugabe might get re-elected?
Keep the antagonism real 🙂
1) So I guess you meant
"..because the typical president, prime minister and politician" instead.
2) I do not know where you are from. The term "western world" is very loose. Is Cayman part of the western world? In some senses yes – others not. Maybe western with a carribian flavour? But I could say that for my own hometurf as well (not the carribean bit).
Keep going. Maybe by the 3rd or 4th try you'll learn to spell "Caribbean".
This man's a joke. The Bible clearly condemns a person who becomes gay by choice. And it states it is a grave sin in the eyes of God. Man was made with organs to match those of a woman, to have sex, to make love, and to procreate – that is the natural order of things. To waterdown the issue that it is permissible for a man to be with a man or a woman to be with a woman, is to endorse perversion, intemperance, and sodomy of every kind.
13.57…your obsession with sodomy gives you away…
Give himself away? Can't you read his name is "Adam"! He died long before there was a city named Sodom. Geeezzz!
Yep…but the apple was eaten 🙂
Sodomy is not bad but I prefer astroturf.
As a perverse intemperature occasional sodomist I must tell you, I have an awful lot of fun.
ask yourself…. what would jesus do/say?
Go thy way and sin no more?
"…and sodomy of every kind". I did not know there was more than one kind. But please don't elaborate.
The Bible clearly condemns eating shellfish too and calls it an abomination, yet it seems so many locals do enjoy their Conch.
Leviticus 11:9-12
Deuteronomy 14:9-10
Why focus on the OT? The NT doesn't condemn eating shellfish. That is what governs the conduct of Christians.
Thank God for that, if we are allowed to disregard the OT, since this doesn't govern the conduct of Christians, can we also put aside, once and for all, the fallacy that God created the world?
I am no Christian. But where in the hell do you think this world came from? Answer you don't know! It is also a fallacy to say that the world was NEVER originated from a higher intelligence. You don't know and hence for you to say otherwise condemning the other is a sign of ignorance!
"condemning the other is a sign of ignorance"
I concur, but would advise you to look in a mirror
the agnostic at least admits his ignorance. so he has already look himself in the miror. errr.. it is for you atheist to do likewise.
I think there is more evidence to support there is a Go,d than the atheist claiming that there isnt one.
Ummm…not a fallacy and clearly taught in the NT. Also, you will note that my reference was to the "conduct of Christians". Improve on your reading comprehension, will ya?
The bible also clearly states if a man's testicles are crushed or his penis cut off, he may not be admitted to the assembly of the lord – Deuteronomy 23:1
Also whoever utters the name of the lord must be put to death. The whole community must stone him/her, whether alien or native. If he utters the name, he/she must be put to death. – Leviticus 24:16.
Maybe if more people instead of just going to church and listening to the verses they "like" to hear, picked up a bible and read it, we'd have more Atheist.
No this man is not a joke, religion is.
You taught me a new religious abomination, thanks! I didn't see the one about crushed 'nads before. Many thanks. For your reward, here are my go-to sites for the abomination that is religion: http://godisimaginary.com/ and http://godisimaginary.com/video2.htm
Here, another extremist !
"The Bible clearly condemns a person who becomes gay by choice"
Does the old work of fiction about the imaginary man in the sky make any reference to those or are simply born gay?
I tend to look to laws about what people can or cannot do, not this old security blanket that also permits slavery. And the law permits homosexuals to do whatever they so choose with one another, if both are at an ageof consent.
I think you forgot one big sin that is condemned in the bible…fornication and adultery…but those are ok as everyone does it. Actually all three were combined together as with Sodom and Gomorra. So if you are able to forgive the one you should also be able to forgive the other.
Why sodomy of every kind? Can a man and woman not get it on thus?
….by choice..?? I really can't see around that statement.
how bout i don't care what the head of a church says! what a waste of time reading this article!
Another nice story to take the attention from the real issues at hand as we read many headlines nowadays with these so called Men of the cloth, who continue to sexually molest children. I am not involved with nor do i intend to be a part of any religion, what a waste of time and energy!
and money!
Then why read it or comment? Wasn't the headline a dead giveaway?
Some signs of common sense at last in the Church. Now I wonder if Cayman is big enough to follow the same course…
Im gay. I am in Cayman. My friends know it. They dont care. No big deal to them. Not my choice. I knew when I was 10 that something was different. Toughuntil I got out of high school. Piece of cake since then. Im strong and confident. You dont like me because Im gay. I dont care. I dont like people who dont like others because of ascribed characteristics.
Dude: Welcome to earth… lots of roome here for everyone. Say cool.
I for one have no real problems against gay people. They can love and do as they please in the privacy of their own homes. That is their business. But please respect people's culture. Don't go about parading, campaigning and pushing your views or lifestyle on the public, especially to youngsters in school. Cayman is a peaceful island and shouldnt be a place to recruit youngsters to suffice the carnal desires of homos. That is not what people want here. Keep what you do in the United States. Peace