PR to get much tougher
(CNS): As all expat workers will now be allowed to stay in Cayman long enough to make a permanent residency applications, the government is about to make it much tougher for them to be approved. Applicants will require more points to qualify, and despite the premier talking about the need for a wider cross-section of people to get PR, it will now be even more difficult for the not so well off to stay. A review committee has recommended that the points system be revamped to focus more closely on the economic, social and cultural needs of the Cayman Islands, and although it will give a clearer indication to those applying what their chances are, cash investment, income and earning potentialwill be essential to the outcome.
Officials said that the revised point system will allow government to select permanent residents who have the skills and experience in occupations that are needed in the Cayman Islands in the short and long terms but the premier said it would now be tougher to get through. “It is certainly going to be more difficult to get permanent residency under the new regime,” said Premier Alden McLaughlin.
The proposed new system will use data from the annual Labour Force Survey, the National Census and work permit statistics to determine the ratio of Caymanians to non-Caymanians in the workforce.
If government settles on the recommendations, points will be awarded based on the occupation in which the applicant is working and additional points will be available if their job is designated as one that is needed for the advancement of the national, economic, cultural or social objectives on a long-term basis. As the country evolves, government should adjust the desired occupations and that a list of priority occupations is gazetted to ensure transparency.
The “skills” category in the current system will be dropped and replaced by “education, training and experience”. Points would be given based on the level of academic or technical training received, the length of education or training and its degree of difficulty. The committee suggests that the higher the level of education, the increased likelihood that the applicant would be able to continually obtain gainful employment and maintain himself and his dependents, according to a release from government explaining the proposed changes.
Despite the occupation and educational standard of an applicant, unless they are financially well off, the goal of achieving PR will be very tough for those who have not injected a significant amount of cash into a property or a business.
Total investment made by the applicant, debt ratio and average monthly income will be significant and no points will be awarded to applicants without a total investments of less than CI$50,000 for the last five years. Maximum points would be awarded to applicants that have invested more than $500,000 over the past five years. The committee also recommends that points should be awarded based on the actual amount of personal funds invested rather than on the basis of funds subject to a mortgage.
This means wage earners who have managed to buy themselves a home could still get zero points if their deposit was less than $50,000. In addition, applicants will not get points for pension contributions but will need to demonstrate other means of being able to support themselves.
The new system also takes aim at what the government said was one of the most abused categories under the current points system of community contribution. Government officials said applicants join service clubs shortly before making the application for PR in order to boost points but the revised system clarifies priority areas and sets minimum levels of service to the community. Applicants who demonstrate active involvement in the training and employment of Caymanians and the rehabilitation and mentoring of offenders would get higher points.
The PR history and culture test remains, but questions will now be randomly selected from a bank of 300-400 questions to reduce the likelihood of questions being copied and circulated. Under the new points system, the requirement for references has been removed.
Also being removed are points for being married to a Caymanian because those who are already receive considerable benefits under immigration legislation. They will still be eligible to apply for PR but will be assessed on the same level as all applicants. PR applicants who have Caymanian grandchildren will not be awarded special points.
A new additional category is age, which does not bode well for those under 24 and those over 60. The committee recommended controlling age diversity to balance the labour market so that the long-term sustainability of worker supply to the islands is assured.
The new system will also seek to balance nationalities and although the new system does not identify any particular one, it will directly impact Jamaicans as they remain the largest foreign national group holding work permits. Under the current points system, the awarding of points in this category is discretionary but the committee said this should be changed, giving top points to foreign nationals from countries that have less than 5% of their nationals holding work-permits.
Points can be deducted in the new system for health reasons as well as for bad character or breaking any laws. With appeals being made tougher and an increase in the application fee, government is hoping that a more stringent PR points system will reduce the number of applications and allow only a few people to eventually go on each year to become Caymanian.
Category: Politics
A foreign worker / couple would be better off financially buying a residence at the beginning of their stay in Cayman, then if the PR application blows up on them, they can at least sell & get a good margin of equity back, which they can then do something esle with or take the money with them. So glad I got PR back in the 90's and status after, as I wouldnt put myself thru this current proposed application head-ache with the hope of satisfying the board
Had I bought the property I was interested in when I arrived almost 7 years ago, I would have lost a heck of a lot of equity in the property by now. Property prices have dropped significantly since I arrived here with the recent recession and I see no evidence of them recovering to the levels they were when I landed. Luckily, I decided not to buy as I wasn't sure if I would qualify for PR and didn't want to take the risk of having to leave the island and the property empty in 7 years time. I'm also glad because like you, I can't put myself through the head-ache of hoping to satisfy some board as to my eligibility.
I think the whole process regarding investment in property or business is overly complicated, should be trashed, and started over. In terms of financial qualification for PR, surely this would be better if based on the census statistics from 2010: Among the employed non-Caymanians, 69.4 percent earn below the GDP per capita bracket, 11.8 percent are within this bracket while 15.9 percent earn higher than this bracket. So why don't we say that only those within or above the GDP per capita bracket can apply for PR, provided they have adequate pension and healthcare arrangements to look after themselves and not become a burden to the public purse? Everyone else should be rolled over automatically. Then those that qualify to apply, can go through the points test and residency should be decided regardless of whether they own or rent property. Just as others have said, many would not consider investing in a property or business here until and if they got PR – why invest if you could potentially be thrown off the island leaving your property empty for a year, possibly more while you apply for jobs to get back in and then the whole debacle starts over again, and again, and again, every 7/8 years until and if you are granted PR. I for one will give up my property in my homeland and invest everything here once I know I can stay. Until then, I'll rent.
OK, so a doctor, lawyer or accountant comes to Cayman, falls in love with the place and commits right away to the island, buys a million dollar house with all cash, butgets no points because 7 years later he or she has not invested sufficient money in the island in the last 5 years. Seems par for the course I guess. I mean who needs that sort of person around, right?
“…with all cash” – This fictional doctor sounds to me like he’s dealing more than prescription drugs!
Copy paste from the official proposal:
"Total Investment is defined as the summation of the following; Purchase price of property plus stamp duty paid less total liabilities in residential property OR total payments (loan deposit plus interest payment plus principal repayment plus stamp duty paid) on residential mortgage for the last five (5) years whichever is higher."
So, the lawyer who paid his house in cash 7 years ago, will still get the full points awarded. The 5 years only applies to residential mortgage.
And if you purchase your house as a couple with a joint mortgage as most people do – only your 50% of it counts. This is beyond ridiculous!
Why do you say that?
So you were hoping that you could double count the same house for two persons application for PR? LOL.
i look forwar to an official response from the chamber of commerce and the tourism asscoiaction…….
Yes, let's wait for the surprising response from those two expat mouthpieces.
Tell me, since you are being so flip about them being expats, WHY are those positions not filled by Caymanians? Why are expats the ones who are leaders in the tourism industry in YOUR country?
I find it odd that you made that comment with a derogatory tone yet those two positions and agencies serve no other purpose than to attempt to improve the business and tourism sectors of the economy which, one assumes, in turn helps Caymanians.
So, if, as you say, those expat mouths have something today, perhaps you should listen instead of being insulting.
West Bayers are considered expats now?
Twit.
Can we add attractiveness to the criteria? Everyone benefits.
That might limit certain nationalities.
no problem
I wish the CI$100K + I have paid my Caymanian landlord over the last 7 years was counted as an investment. My Caymanian landlord certainly feels like I invested in him and will be very sad to see me leave when I fail my PR test purely on the basis that I'd rather rent, than own property and meet all the other requirements.
This is a good point and worthy of note. Many of us would rather rent than buy and would otherwise qualify for PR. Its a shame this couldn't be taken into consideration as rental payments are an investment and also assist Caymanian property owners who would otherwise struggle. Personally I would rather not invest in property until after my PR application was decided, it makes no sense. I'd rather not risk leaving the property empty for a year or more while I was on rollover, and then while I hope to secure employment here so that I could live in my own property once again. I'm sure there are many others out there who feel the same way. The Caymanian rental market thrives on rental income from expats. Incredibly dumb approach if you ask me.
This is true for me too. I would much rather rent until I got PR, and then I'd definitely buy knowing that I could stay. But as the ultimate decision as to whether I can stay or go rests with government at the 8th year, I'm not prepared to buy when I have no idea whether I'll be granted PR or not. Do I stay or do I go? Its all out of my control. I'd rather not risk such a huge investment if there was even the remotest possibility that I might have to leave the island, and my property empty, for a year, and potentially for every 8 years thereafter until and if I am finally granted PR. Cayman already has a stagnant rental market that could easily be revived if those with rental properties, can provide for themselves in the future and could pass all other aspects of the points test were allowed PR. This would actually facilitate a revival in the rental market and, upon granting of PR give a boost to the property market when those of us who are granted PR, subsequently invest in property to live in and businesses to run for the rest of our lives. I cant believe the PPM were dumb enough not to realise this and incorporate it into the new proposal.
Points to consider when fathoming why this is going to be put forth. We have a load of hoke grown born social services dependent class already. This class is growing rapidly, for which our lovely gang loving girls allowing any rude boy to jump on her and throw several children. Then you have the one’s collecting the funds and smoking crack or drinking liquor all day complaining that the expat took my job. The Political minded man needs votes. This end all but the wealthy workers home and put a local back to work will not pan out as Alden has stated that hundreds of he jobs will never be held by a Caymanian. So those folks will go home and a.new round of expat will arrive as the ones here more than likely will not qualify for PR but the degenerative class will be happy that the planes are being boarded. This will back fire as this will burden businesses severely,hence why Government will not agree to the 9 yr show down for themselves as an expat can stay foverever hypothetically as long as they have a contract regardless if they qualify for PR. For Eric Bush to state this level the playing field it is a stretch of the imigaination. My question begs as to why do we want to send people who have been here for nine yrears only to bring in new ones? At least these people know their job and the people. Caymanwith thw crime and policys is not an attractive place to come and make long term plans
Since Cayman is not attractive any longer, then that is why they should be happy to leave.
"Since Cayman is not attractive any longer, then that is why they should be happy to leave."
I will tell you why, because it has become home for many of us despite becoming more unattactive as the years go by. Despite the rising cost of living, the rising crime rates, the rising divide between people, it's still a home for people who have spent 8 plus years here making friends, memories and lifelong connections. I can't believe how many people don't think twice before slinging the "don't let the door hit you" insult so casually then wonder why people think Caymankind is a joke.
Caymanians should be happy that so many people want to come here to contribute to the economy. How many countries in the world are struggling to find the work force they need to contribute to their economy?
How many countries in the world are struggling to find the work force they need to contribute to their economy?
Well according to many here on CNS – they don't need us? We're taking their jobs and we don't contribute to their economy… apparently!
Does it not make sense that people who don't make enough money to get PR don't? Well lets say we open the door for anybody irregardless of salary. Like domestics? Cost of living is constantly going up. How would they afford to buy a house? a car pay insurance etc etc? They wouldn't be able so how about a medical problem?
So it means you and I and our children and grandchildren would pay like we've been doing for 35 years.We need these class of people for labour which Caymanians are not doing. They get paid a substantial amount of money that when they go home they can buy homes and put something in the bank. They can't afford to live here. We don't really want to pay for them till they die do we? So lets not worry about them ,they good. Lets worry about us and our brood.
Well, I guess it is time to start packing my bags… I get the hint.
After 6 years of following all of the rules, promoting this country, bringing hundreds of tourist here and doing a job that no Caymanian wants or can do (or even existed before I arrived), I can see that I am not wanted here. I am not rich, and cannot be an owner in the industry that I work in (watersports), so I highly doubt that I will be able to get PR. Nor is it worth it for me to try since it is a gamble that has low odds of winning.
I know, I know… don't let the door hit my butt on the way out. I have heard it many times before. I get the point, somehow I am taking somebody's job. Or somebody will replace me. I guess that is a gamble that Caymanians are happy to take, and I will have to take my expertise to another country.
The expat community sees the writing on the wall, and I am not the only one that will be leaving before we get kicked out. The immigration policy that is being promoted now will only encourage expat workers that will come to make a quick buck, send most of it home and then leave when their time is up. Gone are the days of Cayman that promotes foreign investment in small business and innovative people that helped this country grow for the last 20+ years.
So goodbye Cayman, it will be interesting to see how the next few years go. And I can only hope to depart before I get shot, mugged, disrespected or broken into. I wish you all the best of luck… you will need it
So Mr./Mrs watersport person. You are telling me that only you can do the job that your doing? That your boss cannot find a better watersport person from your same country or other places around the world to come to replace you? You are telling me that when you came to Cayman Islands you had all expectations to live here forever? What is so wrong with your home town that you would run away and expect to come here and get PR.
Get a life man. You work. You get Paid. If you do good job you get seven years. If you can afford it you get PR. simple as that.
Go home, relax for a year with your savings. Come back with intentions of working for another seven years. Why does everyone think that this country owe them something when they come here to work?
6:45
And why do you think that your country should benefit from all that expat workers bring without owing something back. Oh, I know.. we come here because our countries are so horrible and we do nothing but enjoy the sunshine and party and have a grand ol life right and that should be enough.
Have you ever stopped to think that your country benefits economically from all the workers that come here? And in return we expat workers get what? The right to vote or representation? No. But that is fine, we know that going in. We get to work, to pay high rent and utilities and yes.. to enjoy a nice life.
I found it interesting that your point was that this person wasn't indispensible because another expat worker would come in and fill his place. So, what is the point of making him leave then only to have another expat come? Is that what you want? An endless revolving door of immigration where no one is ever encouraged to think of this place as home where they can grow roots and invest? Sounds like a plan. Good luck with that.
I guess your attitude is, thanks for the 7 years of work, now get out.
I can answer your questions in-line:
1) No, not the only one. But there are this many people with my qualifications in these countries/areas:
– 8 in the USA, 2 in UK, 1 in Caribbean, 0 in Cayman Islands
I am not trying to toot my own horn. I only say this because an indescriminate policy is discriminateagainst people that could benefit your country.
2) Maybe. But the real question is "Would they want to come to your country going forward.?". If you are telling them that they have no future here, then the answer to the question is "No".
3) No, I did not expect anything besides a fair chance to play the game by your rules. Now the rules are changing, and I don't fit the new criteria. When I first came I was welcomed, but now I am persecuted. I can tell that you want me to leave, that is why I said that I will go. Don't think it will be to my "hometown", but I will consider the other countries that have offered me permits as well.
4) I have a life, thank you. I did do a good job. I did get 7 years because of hard work. I will not be able to afford PR. I get the point…. do you get mine?
5) I will not go home and relax. I will continue to work hard… just not for your country anymore. That is why I posted my original post, because you do not want my hard work anymore. I will leave you be. Good luck with my replacement, you seem confident in his/her abilities.
Don't worry about us. We were fine before you got here and we will be fine after you leave. Enjoy your new Life
ok, I won't worry then, and thanks for your well-wishing.
I have read the history books and talked with natural-born Caymanians about your history, even though it is not required of me yet. I wish you the best of luck with your return to fishing (though the amount of fish have decreased dramatically in the past 20 years), turtle-ing (Turtle Farm will attest to that profitability) and to sea-faring (as the salaries of seafarers has also decreased dramatically {considering inflation} in the past 20 years)
So your not fine because we are here now?
Not sure where you are from but you should consider inquiring of your own country what it takes to become a citizen or get a working visa there, Cayman is not any different than many other countries.
I am fully aware of my country of citizenship's immigration policy. And yes, I would qualify to to have a work permit there as well.
I would be happy to tell you about my qualifications in person (or other communication method) if you would be interested to hear, but I don't feel comfortable to tell you all my details in this forum. I feel an already heightened sense of persecution lately due to the immigration debate.
If you would like to discuss this further let me know a way to contact you.
Where are the 1500 jobs being advertised? I have been looking at the newspapers and I am not seeing anything new. I would have thought the employment section would be huge by now.
The bill has not ben passed yet!!!
So they are basically looking for a single Korean with a masters degree, with no kids, earning 250k plus per annum who doesnt go out and saves all his cash, spending all his free time mentoring a young person and has an encyclopedic knowledge of Cayman history.
Should be easy enough to find …..
You got it bro!
Excellent news. Where do I sign up???
Like you attitude North Korean, thats some get up and go you have there, Notice I didnt discriminate between North or South in my OP? I leave that for Govt to do on our behalf ….
When they stop granting permanent residency to mistresses of married menthen I will be impressed. The man will buy the property so that the mistress can fulfill the “investment” criteria which carries many points. Then to add insult to injury, the mistress is not even qualified for the position that she is in and they could have trained a Caymanian to fulfill that role.
I am not against permanent residency if the person is fit to be a valuable member of Cayman’s society. However, it does not matter how many points they add to this system as long as they have people who abuse the process and there are minions who sit there and approve these unwarranted residencies. Cayman needs more transparency in this area!
I couldnt agree more. We need good thinking and caring people sitting on the Board that are capable of making those decisions for us. No rubber stamping either and rushing to eat all those nice lunches. In fact the board should not be comprised of supporters of just the present Government.
Mistresses are very valuable members of society. Ask the French.
A lot of this goes on in the accounting world.
Well maybe if they wives upped their game, successful men wouldn't need mistresses.
Sounds like a certain Mistress messed with your hubby.
Shave your moustache – that will be a start
Whether we like the changes or not at least we won't be importing more poor people and then it will stop those draining the purse strings of Government. Before this country had high caliber of people and financial influential people along with tourism being almost all Caymanians. Now we have depravation, people rushing to Government for handouts (not a Cayman culture), begging for a squeeze here and there, people setting up make shift shacks on corners and at the beach disturbing the poor tourist who pay an arm and leg to get here. Unfortunately these third world mentalities have brought their culture on board and trying to shove it down our faces without any shame. We need to stop and go back to a real Cayman Culture with those wishing to reside being a part of that culture. Tired of seeing e.g. bus drivers not born and bred here trying to hold conversation with limited vocal bury with passengers, people selling their wares at the corner of every street, people on island not registered with Immigration and slipping through the cracks without legally being here. Just a few months ago outside Fosters in Savannah a young lady from dare I say it Jamaica was trying to get customers to purchase one of her health magazines and she was only here studying for two weeks with a collegehere. I told her what for though and that I was going to report her. She quickly moved along with magazines and black bag that she had the magazines in. We need to get back to sophistication where tourists count it a joy to be here. Well down PPM for trying to improve the current system we have. Robin Hood does not live here.
So a child born in Cayman, to paper Caymanians can get 40 points upon turning 18. Where would that child, who knows nowhere else, get the other 70 points?
This is completely wrong and morally without conscience. The policy of the government is now to break up families. The children and young people are already integrated members of the community. They are the friends and schoolmates of Caymanians. How can a school leaver fill these brackets to have enough points to reside with their family and friends in Cayman. Most of these people have not known any other home. I guess they are to be banished to countries they have no ties to besides a passport. This is a great great shame on our country and I for one am so ashamed and embrassed by this. Wake up Cayman Government and do the right thing. Regularize these people and stop making them suffer. Most are pre-Ivan and arrived in the late 90's. My feeling is this is a massive risk and will be very costly if challenged. Another option is apply directly to the governors office for PR or Status who are bound by natural law ethics and not prejudice.
No, a child born in Cayman to Caymanian parents is Caymanian.
God only help us
God only help us if this bill is passed. Can’t you all see that this bill is only for the benefit of a certain class of which the PPM is all about ant that is the Accountants, Lawyers and Trust officers and the list goes on.
Now tell me what is going to happen to my son and daughter when they leave Law school and can’t find a job. Are we saying that Caymanians should only occupy the middle class jobs. This is crazy. But you all voted PPM not me. But the bad thing is when you all tek wood I have to take it with you and I don’t suppose it is pleasant .
Not watching the crime rates these days? God has left the building.
A few comments. First of all of course the UK immigration law is more flexible it can afford to be because of its size. Secondly, of course expats wont like this decision I would not expect them to because what they want is to be given PR and then have the choice as to whether to live here permanently or go back to their home country if they choose, but Caymanians have no where to run to. Thirdly its a bit late to make the criteria to stay harder because the riff raff are already here and committing crimes thanks to Bush. I know of some who had no financial means to stay here and did a short stint at humane society before they applied and got their applications approved so these people should be looked at again and I am sure alot of them have not even fully paid for their PR.
First, UK Immigration is not in any way more flexible…based on the size of the UK. Actually the UK has more people per square mile than Cayman. (650 vs 453 per sq mile).
Secondly, Caymanians have the "right" to a British passport. So by you're terms, that givesall Caymanians somewhere else "to run to".
Thirdly, as far as is reported in the local news outletsband in court, most of the current crimewave in Cayman is being committed by Caymanians….. being from another country doesn't make you "riff raff". Being "riff raff", makes you "riff raff". As far as I'm aware, that has never been designated by a passport.
Factor in the amount of US passports held by Caymanians and I would say that they have more places to "run to" than most expats.
Just get ready to deal with the IRS if you do go.
Your first comment completely misses the point. The point is that expats form a relatively small proportion of the UK's population as compared to Cayman where it is roughly 50%.
Caymanians don't have a right to a British passport. BOT citizens have such a right but not all Caymanians are BOT Citizens.
So, if you have owned your home from say 2006 it counts for nothing? Am I reading this correctly?
So what this is in short – the folks that are due to depart, will almost for sure board a plane out of here as most do not have a prayer of PR. Unless you are making a sizeable income, have a skill that is in need, are from a country that we do not have alot of people from here already, be under 35 and have a close blood Cayman tie, you are out. We will send these folks out and not replace them with Caymainans but new work permit holders, as the Premier has stated, most Caymanians do not want these jobs. This is just going to be a huge burden on the businesses and not good for the tourists. The bottom line is the companies need these staff members, the family's need the nanny.
Some of these Nannys are the ruination of our children today. While there are some that the poor kids respect more tan teir parents. They would be nothing without them.
And despite all this money will still change hands and PR status, like work permits, will be granted regardless of the rules. It's definitely not a case of what you know here but who you know.
I agree with $$$ people earns because we’re stuck supporting people that have pr abd their kids etc! And that’s not being racist or anything else but the truth! (Caymanian)
Looks like I wasted my vote on PPM……….very sad, I hope the human rights courts intervenes.
WOW, backwards we go. We need more people here not less……..
cayman shooting itself in the foot again….
If 20 ppl apply for PR with all these requirements I will walk naked to East End! Don't worry folks I'm sexy and in very good shape 😉
History shows that nations succeed when they are open to immigration and fail when they close the door.
We are cresting the top of the bell curve and don't even know it.
I'm pretty sure you're already surfing the downward slope, and well into the ride, and for the crest you're talking about you need to look backward and way, way up…
Take a look around you. Cayman is very open to immigration. To suggest otherwise is a farse.
No country can remove immigration controls entirely so what you are inferring makes no sense.
Succeed like USA and Greece with trillions of dollars of debt that they cant pay back?
I say we should be more like Japan.
Japan is no less indebted than the US and Greece.
Like the UK, not to mention the Nordic countries.
Unbridalled immigration in those places has caused serious resentment and let's not forget that Cayman is a small place. It should be tough to become resident here. If you think it's tough here, try Bermuda.
If you don't like it, you can always go back hoe and fix the reasons why you left your own country and then perhaps the Caymanians would be beating the door down to come and live in your place…not.
If you are a guest here, then don't take it for granted.
Actually they are beating down the door to live in my place.There are many Caymanians who only applied for and got a British passport so they could go to UK to collect benefits. Have they contributed to the NIS? No! Do you (or they for that matter) see anything wrong with that? No! Talk about entitlement mentality.
Well if you have an issue with migration, take a look at the Overseas territories Decision of 2005 (later revised 2008), where the UK government made provisions for all citizens of Overseas Territories (OT), the right of access to the UK. Furthermore, the law clearly states that there will be no repocritiy regarding the right of access of UK citizens into OT's.
So if you have an issue, take it up with your local MP.
Y
I am Caymanian and I hate this provision. I never realised we sent Brits home until recently when I lost two of my closest friends to rollover. And now another is leaving. I find it very saddening that our MLA's (MP's are in England) don't see fit to choose to reciprocate as a gesture of goodwill. Many argue there would be a sudden influx of Brits if this was done, but I don't believe it. Had that been the case we would already have seen this influx in the good ole golden days before we had any restrictions, crime, recession, etc. and well before we put immigration restrictions in place to control our population. These are just the type of alarmist conspiracy theories that Mr Foolio and his cronies like to band about to frighten us. Last time I checked (the 2010 census) Brits only made up about 5% of the expat population in Cayman, and out of that only 2.7% have status. I wish the Brits were not rolled over. We are a British Territory and we treat them like foreigners. They make us welcome in the UK and we should do the same here. I'm not one of those Caymanians who wants independence. I embrace the UK and I am grateful to be from one of its territories.
Actually this is true. 3 of my Caymanian friends have moved to England in the last couple of years and all have received immediate support from social services with housing and food, utilities, etc. and assistance finding work, schools for their kids, everything. All on the British taxpayers money… and I paid into that system at the higher income tax rate of 40% for 30 years before coming here. When I go back, I will receive no assistance for 6 months – go figure!
Hello Been There, history has a way of evolving, ole boy nothing stays the same, so please dont talk the same ole crap that's been said over and over again. We cannot take on everybody who want to live here and we as sure as hell dont want to pelase everybody, especially those who have tried to buy out the process for so olong and now as time has evolved have become Masters of corruption and subterfuge. THey all know who they are! And another Ting.
Japan certainly did'ntfail after closing its doors for nearly 300 years did it? Japan also maintained it's cultural identity very well. There has to be a balance and the current system make it far to easy to earn PR. Other countries are tightening up or considering this as well, look at Australia for instance.
So true, just look at the UK, total disaster! Also it was recently announced that 1in 4 immigrants is involved in some sort of crime! Seems like Cayman is heading in the same direction!
this has got more holes than a piece of swiss chesse…..
the european court of human rights will make mince meat out of this….
The PPM know only a handful of people would have the money to take it to the courts. And just before they do, at the Appeals Tribuinal – voila – the applicant is successful. The point system maybe the official rules, but it certainly isn't how the game is played.
But that handful and others like them could pool their resources together and start a joint /class action.
ECHR has no jurisdiction regarding a countries border control. So that argument has no validity.
this will be do more damage than the rollover…as usual cayman takes one step forward and two back…..
whatever happened to the supposed caymankindness???????
It probably went out the door with the future unemployed Caymanians kids.
Seems to me this country is about making life easy but not for their own.
It got smarter.
By making the point system harder it ensures only middle managers who make above $75k a year will qualify. Completeley shutting out graduating Caymanianas in the future.These qualifying folks will also have the ability to provide their children with an education that poorer Caymanians cannot afford- forever keeping the divide alive.
The winds of change are blowing and the present politicians, their chambers cronies and potical advisors are not necessarily aware of what really is going on. Why did Alden go to the Ritz to explain his rotten, horrible immigration plan -to a group of elites who are feeding at the trough? Why not go to rockhole in GT where the real problem lies?
Who is advising this Govt? PPM insiders themselves are not happy with Alden's madness.
Making PR tougher cuts out graduating Caymanians? How do you figure?
The permanent divide and social issues this PR bill will make.is unreal People turn out in full force for the demonstration and take your country back !
Alden has always been and will be for the elites. He talks about equality in the PR system and then raises the point system to exclude certain sections. Why make the claim to be fair and then play turncoat? PPM do not forget – you are hanging by a slim majority – a lot can happen in 4 years
McKeeva set up half of the people at the social services 'trough'. Half of them are 'new' caymanians that went straight there once they got their PR or Status
There needs to be a reduction in the number of people getting PR or Status because the Govt cant afford to all the Toms, Dicks and Harrys that come to Cayman looking a handout.
We already have PR persons who cannot afford the application fee and borrow to pay the fees and/or cannot afford the PR annual fees. So who would you like to now get PR and Status down the line since those that can afford to live here and support their dependents will not work for you. As long as you have a roll over policy, you have to accept that a point system is necessary and by its nature only the financially fittest can make it here long term or those we chose to try to attract such as teachers, doctors etc.
We already have PR persons who cannot afford the application fee and borrow to pay the fees and/or cannot afford the PR annual fees. So who would you like to now get PR and Status down the line since those that can afford to live here and support their dependents will not work for you. As long as you have a roll over policy, you have to accept that a point system is necessary and by its nature only the financially fittest can make it here long term or those we chose to try to attract such as teachers, doctors etc.
Don't forget the blatant age dicrimination…..
Apparently long term residents need to be rich, have lots of spare time, like making bad investments, have lots of degrees, be young and not be Jamaican.
As well a s the Race discrimination, this is going to look bad for Cayman just the mention of it by the premier..
You mean just like Australia, Canada and New Zealand whose systems have the same provision?
I heard Eric Bush on the radio last week and wondered where his idea of revamped points came from and realized it was way off base!!!
Bush said points would be given where no Caymanians were in the field and used domestics as an example, but so very flawed when he said points would be awarded in fileds where there WERE Caymanians in the field and it sounds flip-flopped on the points awarded system??? Accountants, Law, A/C, electricians, Admin…vs Domestics? BIG DIFFERENCE for locals trying to get white collar jobs.
I think the whole idea of "Domestics" needs to be taken OUT of the equation!!! It is the middle management jobs and white collar jobs that Caymanians are being pased over for: Skilled workers and trades. 33% of the TLEPs should be filled by Caymanians. Either by a section to recruit or mentor or promote vocational training?
The key is not a new point system, it isbetter education and getting our locals qualified to do the jobs we are giving to permit holders. Educate our people and if and when a local cannot be found suitable (not preferable as it is now, THEN grant a permit)
Yes, any Caymanian can get a job at a hotel…Gee, thanks. 2,000+ unemployed locals say the system is flawed.
Hire a qualified local? How about at a top firm as an IT Manager? (oh, sorry…those are all recruited from overseas.) How about Accounting? Law? The same…I have worked in accounting firms, banks, and law firms and see the parade of expats and no going up the ladder for locals…. it is sad. The local ruling class is keeping out it's own people from moving up.
It will be interesting what impact it will have on the mid to high range house values, already the mid segment is stagnant so I can't see that improving. I think it effectively kills the low priced home market and that segment will be left to the investor for rental properties. It will deter most people from making any kind of signifigant investment on the island as PR will be out of reach for the majority of expats. I think we can see a signifigant down turn in housing starts and thus shutting down the smaller construction companies. Now we will need the big investor with large projects to sustain that sector. Its almost like we're biting the hand that feeds us scenerio and I forsee more unemployment for Caymanians. Tourism sector it should not be impacted much as there is always a revolving door worker to take their place. I guess time will tell.
KYD$50k should not be a hurdle to the kind of people that would normally expect to qualify for PR. To be considered for PR years ago, we had to prove up well over $100k in investment, plus demonstrate community service, provide references, medical, and pass the history exam – then the application eventually advances to the Board for subjective criticism. It's still not any harder than that now.
Under this system Bernie Madoff would have been welcomed. And Martin Luther King would have been out of luck.
Yes, I remember Jesus ignoring the old, infirm and poor and focusing on recruitment the young, rich and healthy. Some Christian values being shown here.
You remember?! Were you the 13th Apostle?
Reading some of the posts and viewing the votes.
Maybe we are simply expressing our "Britishness"??
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10359006/New-immigration-curbs-are-a-race-relations-nightmare-says-Shami-Chakrabarti.html
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/michaelheaver/100239523/theres-a-reason-british-youngsters-arent-working-dave-its-called-immigration/
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/06/theresa-may-london-crime-wave-scaremongering
As always in life, context is everyting.
And the context is that the UK immigration laws are far far more generous than anything Cayman has had for the last 25 years.
He couldn't find anything helpful in the Daily Mail I guess………..
Which must mean that most Englishemn are foreign born, right? Wrong. Call me when there are 200 million Expats in the UK, in addition to the 50 million locals.
Well I for sure damn well would hope so!!
However, Cayman is / was a tiny island-nation of 30,000 as I was growing up – our population has literally doubled in less than 30 years.
How much has the UK grown in the same amount of time?
Surely not by 100% as we have. If so, there would be no more UK as its own people would have burned it all down to the ground by now.
Anyway, my post was not to support or criticize the proposed changes to our immigration policy or the immigration policies of the UK. I was simply highlighting a few similarities between the 2 sides.
Lastly, no one can deny that many Brits (and Europeans) now consider their nations' immigration policies as the number one reason behind many of the difficulties, friction and hardships of their respective countries today.
At the very least we ought to bear this in mind as we tailor our policies to fit our own unique set of circumstances.
*Also, I trust that you (and anyone else who decides to speak on the behalf of the UK) understand the blatant hypocrisy and double-standards in your words.
Yes, and because of those laws the quality of life in the U.K. has deteriorated.
it's comparing apples to oranges, Cayman has 50% of population on Wp's, I expect any nation with that amounts of expats to have a large hurdle to citizenship, otherwise the loss of native control is so great to casue social disorder.
The Key is finding a balance, which is hard.
A better comparison is to Jersey, Guernsey.
Lets be real here. The only reason people want to come/stay in Cayman is because of the economic perks. Once that is gone, which I am afraid is happening, no point system in the world will attract or turn away anyone. So, lets not get our undie's all in a knot.
Very true. Those pushing the "Paradise" line just don't get that most visitors need to make enough more money in Catman than where they are from to justify the downsides of living in the place.
Again you have taken UK Immigration laws and not provided context. Here's some context for you.
UK = 60 million people. Cayman – less than 60 thousand people.
UK = direct signatory to the EU Freedom of Immigration laws. Cayman = exhempted from the EU Freedom of Immigration laws.
The problem in the UK is mostly that EU employment/residency rules apply so anyone can come in, along with their extended families, if the meet very basic criteria. The danger the Cayman Islands has is that if we turn the screws too tight it could end up in the European Court of Human Rights and that might just result in the whole work permit/PR situation being ruled unlawful. The phrase 'playing with fire' comes to mind here.
This bill is better than what we had in place for so long.
To Lorna Bush and Shaun Ebanks (from the radio this morning), you two must like the situation down at social services and the ever-increasing financial burden placed on the Government to fund people who get PR but cant take care of themselves (i.e. the importation of poverty) into the Cayman Islands.
I can also hear McKeeva now saying "The PPM is against poor people blah blah blah…" and trying to spin how HE has helped so many poor people, but in reality, all he did was direct social services to give them money permanently, therefore placing the burden on the Government because it wasnt his money that was being spent.
Taking care of Cayman's poor is important. Importing more poor people is stupid.
The key to politics is to promise the world and give dirt. These politicians CHOSE to keep us in the dark like mushrooms. No politician wants and educated voting class…they want you to depend on them and vote for them!! (again and again)
A decade of 2-party system and what do we have? He said / She said – Horrid education, a gang & crime problem, and unemployment…..yet, like sheep we allow our politicians to lead us with parties and promises.
Now that the PPM has the two C4C members Mervyn and Paul on their side they are going to to pass this immigration bill. The Government needed to look first at putting Caymanians to work rather than trying to protect the so called TLEPS.
We are screwed Cayman!!!!
I don't understand how I can be told for 9 years that I'm needed to fill a job then at year 10 be told that I'm not.
For the past 9 years I have had to fill in work permit applications which are approved based on a set of criteria but for PR the criteria to determine whether or not I'm desirable as a part of the Cayman Islands change. Why?
Why are the criteria different suddenly?
And why make it so difficult when clearly I can leave for a year or so then come back and start another 9 without any trouble by fulfilling the work permit criteria again?
And wow.. you can have a mortgage but that doesn't count for any points?
It seems to me that the criteria are just a little bit discriminatory and arbitrary.
It is because the problem has been kicked down the street for many years and now there are simply to many people who will qualifiy for PR under the current rules.
Too many PR grants= political suicide (even if it makes economic sense).
and I'm afraid you and many others are the ones that will pay for it.
Actually, that's not what's happening, and I think here is another example of employment matters being conflated with security of tenure matters. The criteria are different for the grant of a work permit and the grant of permanent residence because the statuses are completely different and have very different rights and privileges attached to them. Permanent residence is not a logical progression of a work permit or guaranteed if only the person is able to maintain a work permit for eight years. Permanent residence is a possibility for a small number of persons who have been able to maintain a work permit for eight years if they meet other *additional* criteria set out by the government.
The grant of a work permit says "at this point in time we need a person who isnot a Caymanian to do this particular job" and the grant of permanent residence says "we think you personally deserve to stay here for the rest of your life". The former is not based on you as an individual being needed, and the latter is not based on whether or not a Caymanian can do the job that you are doing (though occupation is a small consideration). Just because you have been able to obtain a work permit for a number of years doesn't mean you are personally needed forever. To be frank, what our immigration legislation says about people on work permits is that they are always replaceable by either a Caymanian or another non-Caymanian.
To put it another way, at year nine (no longer ten per the changes approved by Cabinet from the Premier's original proposal) it's not that you're being told you're no longer needed to fill the job after being told for eight (not nine) years that were were. At year nine you're being told "well, it appears you didn't meet the criteria to stay here, and because you didn't get PR you need to leave so we aren't forced to let you stay here just because you'll have been here for so long".
You can potentially be let back in after a one year break in residence "without any trouble by fulfilling the work permit criteria again" becauseyou're no longer in danger of staying here so long that the government will be forced to give you a status they don't believe you qualify to receive. Basically, the government wants to make those decisions about who stays, not have someone else make them for them.
This all comes back to the human right to "security of tenure". This international human right says Cayman can no longer let people stay here for decades without giving them the right to remain indefinitely and to have equal rights as citizens. That was what we used to do, but now if we try to continue allowing people to take out work permits for 20, 30, 40 years, but then not be able to retire here or ever be granted equal rights as citizens… they can challenge that decision in courts. The European Court of Human Rights in Strausbourg could review someone's application and say to our government "you let this person live in Cayman for X number of years, now you have to make that person a Caymanian because it is only fair".
However, we have to consider the practical implications of not having a "rollover" policy. Cayman simply cannot allow every single person who makes it here on a work permit to receive "security of tenure" and the rights of being a citizen. First of all, the infrastructure and budget can't support it. There would not be enough places in public schools, there would be more and more demand for education council scholarships and affordable housing, and the budget for social services would explode if we allowed people who cannot fully support themselves right now or who are at risk of not being able to support themselves in the future to access social services (poor relief, indigent medical care, etc). There are also concerns about changing what it means to be Caymanian, political control, being dominated by particular nationalities, etc.
I'm not saying this is all moral and ethical or that we have all of our priorities right, but we have to understand what our immigration legislation is actually intended to do, all of the implications of various changes, and what is best for the entire country. Is this current proposal the best? Maybe not. But the fact is we can't just give every single person who manages to come here on a work permit PR and then status. We need to determine what our priorities are as a country, what we value, what is practical, potential positive and negative effects of any policy, etc. Then we need to balance everything and come up with the best plan for a really complicated situation.
(Also, regarding your last two points, having a mortgage doesn't necessarily mean you've really "invested" very much and points can in fact be awarded to people who have mortgages, they will just be proportional to how much of that morgage has been "paid down" because that represents the actual investment in the property. The bank owns whatever part of a property is mortgaged, not the individual. And, yes, the critiera are a bit discriminatory, but they are *reasonably* discriminatory and they are definitely not arbitrary. They have been developed based on a system and there is a logical reasoning for the award of points that is set out very clearly with little discretion in the main – that is the exact opposite of arbitary. As a final point, "human rights" doesn't mean the government can't ever discriminate. It means the government can't discriminate unless there is an overriding public interest or unless that discrimination is reasonable and proportionate to achieving a specific and legitimate aim. I would say balancing immigration requires those considerations.)
There are people in Cayman that have been here 10, 15 years who have not been regularized. They are the friends and family of Caymanians and Status holders. The government has cast them aside and soon they will be sent off island because of these laws. Where is the fairness in this? I for one find it disgusting that the governments policy is to break up families. This government should be ashamed of itself.
Well – if Jamaicans lose points and couldn't get it when the pass mark was 100 – PPM definitely deal with their case by keeping them losing points and raising the pass mark to 110.
Talk about the house negro revenge part III
If you are labouring class and/or Jamaican, you don't stand a chance. Which I suppose is good because we haveso many Caymanians lining up anxious to take these labouring jobs…………….
Really, and just where are the lining up at ? If there were some many Caymanians lining up to get these jobs there wouldn't be Jamiacan after Jamiacan getting Work Permits for these jobs year after year ?
Labouring class? It will be difficult for a typical professional such as a Jamaican nurse or a Jamaican teacher to receive 100 points, much less 110. The revisions in the investment category are ridiculous, especially as they relate to mortages. But with the new nursing programme and the strong desire for British teachers, I guess the bill is perfectly aligned. Well, that is if the term limit become applicable to civil servants. The government has a mandate which the bill, if passed, will clearly help them to achieve. Best wishes to them. We can only pray that they achieve what they intend to achieve. May God grant us wisdom, regardless of our nationality.
Considering that the last raunch of status grants included a truck load of labouring class, who now have turned to Social Services, I think we can afford to bypass them this time around.
Who cares… Glad we are gone at the end of the month.
Dont let the door….. well you know the rest – have a nice life
Yaayyy!
Hope your flight is already booked, as there could be another few thousand going with you.
Hooooray Hip Hip. and another Ting
No aspect of this test should discretionary.
No points should be added or deducted for nationality. That would be racist pure and simple.
Just devise a simple fair test that cannot be manipulated by applicant or reviewer, and stick to it.
I think you have racism and discrimination mixed up…
OK quite right, agreed. It is discriminatroy. But no way should it be justified to deny PR to e.g. a Jamaican who otherwise qualifies with all the points required under the system, but to accept another nationality with the same (or less) qualifying points. Doing so in the name of trying to engineer the "cultural balance" is total hogwash.
Nonsense. Allowing so many of a single nationality/culture to establish themselves that they actually outnumber the local culture and overwhelm it is problem. Whether it is Canadian or Filipino's the problem is the same and is one that can be legitimately fettered.
Seen from your individual perspective (as a Jamaican, I presume) it may be hogwash, but seen for the greater public interest of this country it is absolutely justifiable and I guarantee to you it would satisfy the wide margin of appreciation we have in this area.
Obviously, it is not racist. Rather it is obviously the opposite. It is aimed at ensuring diversity so that all races/nationalities have a fair chance.
Obviously, this is no different that what is widely practiced in other "first world" countries. For example, the USA's Diversity Visa (http://www.dvlottery.state.gov).
Can't think of a better way to deter high end professional hires.
why? They will be the only ones that will probably qualify so i am not sure i follow.
Agreed.
As a Caymanian professional I just scored myself. I got 188 points – an easy pass if I was subject to the regime, and that was giving myself 18 out of 20 on the test and 0 for national origin given I happen to have been born in Jamaica.
High – end professionals ought easily pass. Your scaremongering is the only thing that would deter worthy applicants.
I didn't know the PPM's new and tougher points system has been released yet in order for someone to test themselves. And plesae believe, the boards are not generous when granting points. Where you think you'd get 80-100% you'd be lucky to end up with 50%.
There is no discretion so it is actually pretty easy to test yourself on this one.