Elmslie: No Sunday shopping
(CNS): Members of Grand Cayman’s oldest church have expressed concerns publicly about government’s plans to lift the Sunday shopping ban. In an open letter Dr Dave Hazle of the Elmslie Memorial United Church has set out some of his congregation’s concerns that trading on Sundays will not bring about the economic benefits expected and will see an exploitation of workers. They are concerned about Cayman losing its one quiet restful and relaxing day as well as the traditional Sunday lunch family get together. Holding Sunday special for resting, recreation, family or religious observance is an important part of Cayman culture worth saving, the church leader said.
In the church’s submission on the government’s proposal for the liberalisation of the Sunday trading laws, Hazle said there was no guarantee that the change would increase economic activity as the same amount of money may simply be spent over seven instead of six days. With the fast-food chain Chick-Fil-A, known for its strict closed-on-Sunday policy,making greater profits with fewer stores than KFC, the minister said Sunday trading is no guarantee of economic benefits.
Pointing to the dangers of lower paid workers being exploited and forced to work longer hours without the benefit of overtime, the minister said liberalization could increase discrimination against workers who don’t want to work on Sundays. Government’s promise of protection for employees against discrimination gave little comfort, he added.
“Given the current rate at which labour matters are dealt with we have little confidence that such discrimination will be properly policed and the rights of workers protected. Both expatriate workers and Caymanians who do not want to work on Sundays could be vulnerable to such discrimination,” Hazel said.
The church leader also said that having a designated day when commercial activity is limited promotes rest and relaxation as well as making family interaction more likely to happen, but changes in the law could undermine local culture.
“The practice of families gathering for Sunday lunch, which has been an important part of Cayman culture, could become a thing of the past,” he warned as he noted the articulation of Christian values in the country’s constitution. “Sunday trading has repercussions way beyond the religious,” said Hazle.
While Elmslie is the first church to circulate its position in writing during this latest public discussion period on the subject, it is by no means the first or only church to raise objections to the proposal to life the Sunday trading ban.
The consultation period initiated by the finance ministry was expected to close Wednesday evening and a summary of the consultation results will then be prepared for Cabinet.
Officials said that any legislative changes to emerge as a result of the consultation would not come into effect before the 4th quarter of this year and any changes made will be reviewed one year after implementation.
Government has cited a number of reasons behind the proposal to lift the ban, not least to allow competition between all retailers as the laws currently allow some but not others to open. It has also said Sunday shopping will improve consumer choice, with access to the same variety of goods on a weekday and increase convenience to consumers as well as provide job opportunities for those who want to work on a Sunday. The ministry also hopes it will maximise efficiency and productivity across the whole retail sector, reduce congestion and queuing as well as reducing waste for retailers selling perishable goods.
Although religious factors were expected to influence the debate, and the churches represent the majority of the opposition to the proposal, the growth of Seventh Day Adventists in Cayman is also a consideration, as the current situation discriminates against that group, as well as other religions holding a day other than Sunday as Sabbath.
See full letter from the Elmslie church below.
Category: Local News
As I read the blogs of the debate on Sunday Trading, I can’t help but think of the compounded evidence of hearts being hardened towards God and the very disregard for what is written in The Word of God as God’s guidance and direction to us as His people. When we disobey and wilfully sin and are faced with devastating consequences as a direct result of our actions, we immediately realize that the only one to turn to for help is God. So why not save ourselves from such turmoil and obey instead of kindling God’s wrath against us due to disobedience.
It has been said that we are no longer a Christian community. To the contrary, I believe we are still a Christian community however, standards have been drastically lowered and the attitude of “anything goes” has been adopted in some areas and are fast being adopted in other areas. I believe it is time for CAYMANIANS TO WAKE UP and stand for something that is worthwhile standing for or we will fall for anything! This is the same worldwide. But today I speak directly of our islands. This goes beyond routine actions and heritage, this is directly related to the expectation of us by God and no matter how the MLA’s twist it, they cannot change The Word of God! Changing a law doesn’t make it right and one day we will each stand before God to be judged.
The Bible plainly states in Exodus 23:12 “Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine donkey may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed”. Other references of God reiterating this very important instruction by Him can also be found in Luke 13:14, Deuteronomy 16:8, Leviticus 23:3, Leviticus 12:5, Exodus 35:2, Exodus 34:21, Exodus 31:17, Exodus 31:15, Exodus 23:12 and Exodus 16:26. The Bible also states 1 Timothy 6:10 “For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows". If you want confirmation of what happens due to greed of money, read the daily news paper”.
Some may differ to say that their Sabbath is on Saturday, again it has always been our belief that Sunday is our Sabbath and therefore it should remain as it is. All manner of religions are coming into our country and suddenly we are forced to feel obligated to make everyone happy. Well… I will remind you that Jesus couldn’t please everyone and certainly the MLA’s won’t be able to, so if this is a vendetta to gain votes by possibly making this change, I think they are sadly mistaking. The Caymanian people don’t forget things easily and I promise you this will be reflected in the way the votes are cast come next election.
Also, we pray for our leaders and depend on them to also seek God’s guidance in their decisions because He knows the future. Wisdom and knowledge belongs to God, so does mercy and wrath. We certainly do not want to fall in The Hand of an angry God. May God guide the decisions we each make and especially the MLA’s as they make crucial and complex decisions on our behalf. May they diligently seek God for HIS direction and WAIT for HIS response.
I stand firm on The Word of God. It doesn’t matter how many likes or dislikes this post receives. God too was scoffed at and spat on by His own people as they nailed Him to The Cross where He gave His life so that you and I could have eternal life. Our respect and obedience is due unto Him!
Despite what bloggers have written in their view of this topic, whether they are Caymanian or foreigners etc., I pray that God will yet again have mercy on the Cayman Islands and block every plan of the enemy and override every attempt and decision by legislatures and MLAs that would cause more destruction to our little islands by reckless decisions.
I am blessed and proud to acknowledge that I am a Christian – I'm a part of the family of God.
CNS you have a troll and smiley face option. What about a ? mark option. Because I really don't understand this comment.
I have to work monday thru saturday 60 hours total I am paid well
But I dont get to spend it because on sunday everything is closed
So i just send my money overseas No Problem
There you go! .. Sunday trading law only helps the employers.
For those arguing Sabbath as well- If you really read the Bible Jesus bypassed Sabbath to meet with His disciples on the first day of the week (Sunday) this is simply why we meet in worship on Sundays. Jesus came to fulfill the law. He is the promised rest (for the soul) that the law (10 commandments was pointing to). Keeping the Sabbath, not murdering, stealing etc. all were to keep the people ofIsrael within limits of holiness untill the Messiah came which would save people from their sins and bring soul rest. Something the keeping any of the 10 commandments could not do in itself. It was Sabbath keepers that nailed Jesus to the cross. They despised Him because He was establishing a new way.
Jesus did many miracles on Sabbaths which made them hate Him all the more. The 4th commandment and all others are good and right in their place. How does one keep the Sabbath Holy? Remember the punishment for breaking it was death! Jesus came to change that and bring life! Thus- yes be saved, keep Saturday holy and Sunday and Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday and Thursday and Friday! He wants a Holy life not just for one day. If we are to follow the Bible then we are to meet with other believers on the first day of the week and Jesus and His followers did.
Yes there must be some places that will be open such as essential services hospital, police etc. And even some businesses like restaurants and hotels (we are a tourist destination) after all. But there needs to be limitations. Also bars unless serving meals should be closed. We cannot stop someone from drinking alcohol while eating but it should not be bar rooms to hang out all day in and get wasted. Drive around on Sunday afternoon and although there still alot going on there is some measure of ambience. Sundays should be preserved as Cayman history DOES contain. Not a day of business as usual.
God bless.
The church needs to stay out of good economics! I am a Sunday worshiper!!
…who values money more than Christianity.
As far as I can back as I can remember, hotels (including stores in the hotel), bars, restaurants, mom-n-pop stores, the airport, fire station, hospital, police station, hair salons, gas stations, duty-free stores, tourism based businesses (think bus/ boat tours, waters sports etc) have all been open on Sundays.
So I'm not sure where the idea that Sundays in Cayman have traditionally been a day of rest came from.
As far back as I can remember….. young one you have not been here or around very long because I am not yet 55 and remember when Sundays in Cayman was traditionally a day of rest.
My friend, Evidence that most of the commenters here are not Caymanian… they visit CNS only with the agenda of dogging our Christian culture and supporting employers to exploit us. It is sad that one of our own MLAs has turned on us, our families and the precious times we have on that day of rest.
Less money to the churches coffers on Sundays, hence their protest.
Can this pastor have a word with my wife. She makes me cut the lawn and tidy up the garden on Sundays. I really would love a rest day!!?
Well we all need to be very careful when saying that the grocergy stores cannot be open on Sunday because it is the law and it is the day that gives Caymanians a day of worship and rest. This means we have a Sunday Law. So why are can a person buy alcoholic beverages on Sunday??? Also, I have lots of SDA friends that worship on Saturday. Do we close that stores on Saturdays, since this is a day of rest for these people? Come on Caymanians, read the Bible and see which day is the Sabbath as the Lord says
If you really read the Bible Jesus bypassed Sabbath to meet with His disciples on the first day of the week (Sunday) this is simply why we meet in worship on Sundays. Jesus came to fulfill the law. He is the promised rest (for the soul) that the law (10 commandments was pointing to). Keeping the Sabbath, not murdering, stealing etc. all were to keep the people of Israel within limits of holiness untill the Messiah came which would save people from their sins and bring soul rest. Something the keeping any of the 10 commandments could not do in itself. It was Sabbath keepers that nailed Jesus to the cross. They despised Him because He was establishing a new way.
Jesus did many miracles on Sabbaths which made them hate Him all the more. The 4th commandment and all others are good and right in their place. How does one keep the Sabbath Holy? Remember the punishment for breaking it was death! Jesus came to change that and bring life! Thus- yes be saved, keep Saturday holy and Sunday and Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday and Thursday and Friday! He wants a Holy life not just for one day. If we are to follow the Bible then we are to meet with other believers on the first day of the week and Jesus and His followers did.
Yes there must be some places that will be open such as essential services hospital, police etc. And even some businesses like restaurants and hotels (we are a touristdestination) after all but Sundays should be preserved as Cayman history does contain. Not a day of business as usual.
God bless.
How many of these good church folks partake of Sunday shopping when they go off island – none I hope – they spend their Sundays away in church and resting in their hotel rooms, right???
As frequent visitors to the Cayman Islands, one of the MANY things we enjoy is that there is one day of the week that is different here. While allowing businesses to be open on Sunday does not force them to be open on Sunday, past experience shows that most will follow the herd once the door is open. If the majority no longer think that Sunday should be treated differently from the other six days of the week, Cayman is a democracy, and the majority rule. But, a decision to lift the restriction on commerce on Sunday begs the question "Why?" The answer is probably that the priorites of enough people have changed so that the freedom to do whatever one wishes, the perceived notion that more money can be made, the desire for access to goods and services on demand seven days a week or the desire to be like surrounding countries is deemed more important than an uninterrupted time to relax, to be with family, to be alone, to attend Church, or simply continue a time-honored tradition. As some have already expressed, we have other things that drastically need addressing–recycling, trash management, crime reduction, to name a few–before looking to change things that are not really broken–at least from a grateful visitor's perspective.
I can appreciate a tourist's perspective, your opinions are of value as it is a tourist destination. However, not every tourist will share this view.
On the other hand, as a Resident, I would welcome shopping on Sundays, if at the least be able to buy groceries.
I can get where you're coming from…but as someone who lives here, it can get incredibly annoying and a hassle. I've needed to get groceries on a Saturday but have had conflicts, sickness etc and have to either get in the car and go shop with a debilitating migraine, or either starve on Sunday or have to go out to eat and spend money at restaurants. Living here, that gets a bit expensive. As a visitor, chance are you're on vacation and don't have all the little things to do that comes with living here. No Sundays takes a free day that I would have to get things done and basically forces me to be lazy and do nothing.
When one reviews the majority of the comments in this thread, it becomes clear that most posters are not actually concerned about Sunday trading laws in Cayman, but are more focused on challenging what they perceive as the conservative Christian culture of Cayman in this particular regard.
Not only is this disingenuous, but it is also incredibly sad.
Regardless of the principles on which a society or custom is grounded, it is very disrespectful and arrogant to maliciously attack on that basis.
Whether these individuals are Caymanians are otherwise, we all need to bear in mind the long-term and bigger picture at hand. In other words, are we putting at risk yet another unique quality of Cayman as we attempt to "modernise" our country?
Are we honestly so passionate about Sunday trading?
Is Sunday trading truly at the forefront and a priority in respect to what the country is lacking right now? Or is this all simply a battle of The Traditionals vs. The Liberals?
*Note: For those of you calling Cayman "backwards" in this regard – may I remind you that practically ALL the major, western, democratic and liberal countries impose and or allow limited trading on Sundays. All it takes is to shut up for a minute, think, and look around – it is the absolute truth.
The general theme of this post is simply to bash yet another elementof Cayman life that many Caymanians regard as worthy.
(It is as if some of you don't get out much or simply lack the common decency of respecting people's cultures. I am quite certain not a single Caymanians has landed in the USA, Canada or UK and protested against their (metropolitan) Sunday trading laws. I know I haven't. I choose to live and let live. It would be nice to have others return the gesture.
Am I right when I say we live in a Democracy? If so the word that comes to mind when I hear democracy is choice, it should be my choice what day I worship, what day I shop on, where I shop, my choice if I own a business and conduct Sunday trading.
Id say you are wrong. We dont even have a one man one vote system!
Except democracy is based on the choice of the majority. Recent example was the referendum on Scottish independence. Many do not agree with what the people voted but majority decided it was not for them. Something similar is applicable here with Sunday trading.
Oh people, remember this follow fashion broke monkey neck.
Cayman will never be a true democracy until church and state are separared and corruption is stamped out. All three feed each other and have no real interest in you and I.
Take any recognized socalled Democracy in the world today and tell me if they give people absolute CHOICE to do what they want to do?! If well-off business owners had absolute choice to do as they please to people making low wages under them that would mean chaos, an exploited society. As it is today we have no real enforcement of the Labor Law, and if we do there is always corruption – so what make you think they will defend the low-wagers, the helpless and vunerable? It is not going to happen. One day off from seven days is the only day of escape and to organized family affiars for these people. You know what … why don't you take a trip to Bangladesh and do what the women there have to do around the clock and then come back here and tell us again how bad Cayman is, how un democratic we are. 🙂
Why is Cayman such a third world country? Why do the Cayman people force their own beliefs on others? For example if I have a company and I want to conduct Sunday trading I should be able to, the labor law states that employees are required to work 40 hours per week, after that 40 hours any extra will be paid as overtime time and a half, if I as the employer don’t want to pay time and a half after the 40 hours then I hire additional staff in order to cover the days that my company or business is open, that would make a dent in the unemployment rate.
Secondly whether I’m a Saturday or Sunday worshipper, whichever day I worship then I would rest on the other day. Why do we Caymanians feel that we have to dictate to people just because we are in Cayman, if you go to church on Sunday and then go home to relax then you do that, stop worrying about what the other person is doing, we Caymanians need to realize that the world does not revolve around our beliefs, and does not shut down on Sundays.
Thank you
11:52 you are not caymanian you are just a greedy expat and when our country is destroyed you will run and find another country to leech on to.
Observing a traditional day of rest does make you a third world country. You are one of those idiots who think following everything happening elsewhere is an improvement.
Cayman is the same kind of third world country that Dubai is they choose to close down all government offices and buildings on Fridays and Saturdays and we choose to close on Sundays. More wealthy people live in Dubai and they don't lobby the government there to change their policies because the major financial markets in the world are open on Fridays the millionaires in Dubai work around they system in Dubai why can't the few rich, middle class and everyone else here work around the NO sunday trading laws that existed for generations here in Cayman? When you go to rome do as the Romans do!
To be honest I love a quiet Sunday but not for religious reasons. It forces me to take a step back and slow down. I never knew though that it was LAW not to have Sunday trading. Does this mean that petrol stations, bars, restaurants etc. are breaking the law when they open on Sunday?
Your dumb and the rest of people who rate, which I'm sure are not Caymanian! This has nothing to do with pushing beliefs down on people. It is the Law! And it was legislated for a reason because our forefathers knew too well about the exploitation of workers. You talk like you are an expert in the Labor Law … do you seriously think that employers will not use the Sunday Trading law to their own advantage and have people working around the clock. You are a fool!
Any posting that opens with “your dumb” (sic) can be swiftly dismissed.
Sixty per cent of the employers and business owners that you refer to will be caymanian.
The majority of employers that would fill the service industry vacancies for Sunday opening will be furriners with permits taken out, held or approved by Caymanians.
I guess you are right, your forefathers did know a thing or two about the exploitation of workers.
Sorry but it is obvious that those folks backing the MLA for Sunday Trading, brought up the issue only for business profit – they could care less about the workers on the low-wage scale. It is further obvious that they are making a big stink about our culture norm because they have no respect for the people here.
Hold on a minute. Don't businesses have to have a Caymanian partner who owns 60% of the business. Once again a disconnect!
Politicians beware of the silent majority. Status Quo won't cost you votes but you will pay dearly if Sunday Trading is approved on your watch. Cayman is still a special place because of our religious and spiritual foundation. Be proud of it. All of the Johnny-come-lately non-believers that are so vocal for Sunday trading do not understand or care how we came to be such a special place to live and raise families.
I hate to break the news to you, but the "Johnny-come-lately-non-believers" are the ones that are the silent majority, and that includes Caymanian voters. The ways of the past are gone. Young Caymanians really don't want what you're selling, partially because they see that what you're really selling is a product that has nothing to do with the salvation of souls.
AMEN! Well said.
I disagree with you. I'm Caymanian (of many generations) and i'm all for people (all people) making their own choices.
13.24 if your employers open on Sunday because of the law change how does going to the dentists or doctors change if you have to go to work? You write as if the law wouldn't affect you?
Next Up. A law to make everyone go to church on Sunday because you can't do anything else. Then we will all be eternally honorable.
This debate has being going on for decades now, as far as I am concerned if someone wants to open their store, please do so, if you don’t, then they don’t have too.
I am really tired of this topic, we have a lot more problems on this island to deal with right now, like crime, unemployment and educating our kids!!! Maybe the churches should be spending their time on these matters and give solutions to assist our community, not always be negative when change is bound to happen.
So why are the churches allowed to be open 7 days a week? Maybe they should be made to close one day!! Or does the pastor collect overtime?
Draconia Rule
If a business want to trade it should have the RIGHT to choose it's days of trade. Not be dictated to……..
Dark ages….
Like, leave it or lump it.
Or just ignore it and keep watching the money roll in.
Sunday Trading will increase employment for all the out of work Camanyans.
Look what the changes to the liqueur licensing hours has done!.
Bring it on everyone will work.
fine if I cant buy groceries on a sunday because its a day of rest then there should be no construction on sunday either or after 6pm on all days for that matter…..we get no peace on sunday our day of rest because the workers day of rest is Sat…how is that fair?
Folks,
Do you honestly think God is fazed by any of our opinions? He looks at our hearts, plain and simple. One's religion and the condition of their heart are not necessarilythe same thing.
Many times during quiet reflection, I see myself standing before my Creator on that incredible day and I don't think that our arguments, however self-righteous, actually mean anything.
God does not do BS, so neither should we.
Your God is BS. Mine is real.
The decision needs to be made one way or the other. Either businesses can open on Sunday or they can't. It is unfair to allow some businesses to be open and others not. So if the church and majority agrees that Sunday is a day of rest then the restaurants, bars, gas stations and little side stores also need to be closed.
My wife is from philippines, before she married me she was born and grew up there, in a city where business is open from Monday-Sunday except the government offices. She said that when she moved here in cayman to start our family, she realized how blessed the people and the island to leave like this. Everything is closed during Sundays, we have a great culture which we give value to family time and if we need some stuffs we can still get it from gas stations and still can ho to open stores and restaurants at Camana bay. We both don’t get the idea why they wanna change the culture and custom that we caymanians already cherished since we’re born. Are the people pushing this to happen really that desperate of profiting than to think about the greatness of this kind of simple way of life. Hope that they will not change this.
What about people who onserve on a different day? are you saying your religion is the one and only? that only your religion counts? Religni is the#1 reason wars and conflict globally.
Mankind is the cause of all wars, not religion
But mankind uses religion to justify war
Hence why I said Religion is the "scape-goat" not the reason.
Mankind fighting over what? Religion my friends. Religion.
Total rubbish. The two greatest wars were fought because of greed. Many other wars are fought over land. Religion is used to hide behind in other wars but in every case war is started by mankind.
Which is not the same as causing war. It is more often used as an excuse for war
Mankinf can use anything to justify what he wants to do. The point is don't blame religion, blame mankind.
I thought it was saroman in the depths of mount doom.
Religion is the "scape-goat" not the reason. Tread carefully on this subject.
So, I can't shop for shoes on a Sunday but I can sit at the bar and get wasted all day. Sounds fair!
Sunday trading is coming regardless of public consultation. The people in power have already decided. If they truly cared what the people thought, there would be a referendum.
hypocrisy and ignorance……cornerstones of cayman society…..
I think it will not come. In the unlikely event that it does, it won’t be for long. There is a big movement going on in Europe to save Sunday. Religious leaders, politicians, trade unions, etc. are all involved and behind it. As European Union and the UK go this way to save Sunday, it will come to Cayman also. At the core of this issue is religious observance of Sunday (no Scriptural authority by the way) but to get non-religious support they are pushing the idea of saving the family, which is what the vast majority of people will agree to, as if opening a store on the venerable day of the sun is responsible for breakdown in the family unit. So the Sunday observers will get their way in the long run. Don’t worry.
There is very little chance of Sunday trading being reversed in the UK. Too many people would lose their jobs. Some countries and regions in Europe (which the UK is actually part of, by the way) never implemented Sunday trading, others did. Some partially implemented it (in the South of France, for instance, many shops are open on Sunday during the tourist season, but not over winter – in Paris they are open every day). Even where Sunday trading is permitted, many shops don't open, by choice – the reality is that usually only the big supermarkets and DIY stores open, or those shops based in major shopping centres (malls) where there are likely to be sufficient customers to make it profitable.
I Worship the God Thor so don't expect me between Wednesday and Friday.
I bet hell will freeze over the day any religious group on this Island gets with the 21st Century.
Getting them to leave the Bronze Age would be a good start.
I would much prefer if I would be able to make an appointment with my doctor and dentist on a Saturday or Sunday! Many doctors/dentists have the last appointment at 4:00 p.m. making it often impossible for many to make a dentist/doctors visit during the work week, especially considering that in many doctor/dentist offices you have to sit and wait for about 1 hour before you get actually through. Yes, I am aware weekend emergency care is available but that isnot what I am talking about! I am talking about scheduled appointments!
Maybe your doctor and dentist would quite like to have some time off as well.
Sundays are special. They are for hair of dog Bloody Marys, sex, eating good food, drinking lots more booze and ideally more sex, ideally not necessarily with the person from the morning. Keep Sundays special.
You must be a catholic.
Wrong. Catholics observed Sunday with the upmost respect! Sunday observance came from the Catholic Church in honor of Christ resurrection on the first day of the week.
And please stop trying to twist this subject into a religious one when it is cultural!
Yawn!
"And please stop trying to twist this subject into a religious one when it is cultural!" What? The Churches got involved. And not on "cultural" grounds. Anyway, Christ was never resurrected, that is just a fairy story. So your basis for supporting Sunday closing is without foundation.
At last. There is something cultural to be found.
Will this mean that the nightclubs can stay open past 12 on Saturday nights ?
If Sundday is to become " just another day" thean I would expect the answer to your question would be. Of course.
Dancetastic! I am going to need some more boogie shoes.
Personally, my opinion on this is not based on Christianity or religion.
Instead, it is primarily influenced by a wish to maintain what is a cultural norm in this society – one that is being constantly hit by all angles might i add, with many negative ramifications.
Trade is a function of work and action therefore it entails a noticeable degree of interruption to a relaxed state of being of any community. Cayman's history, culture and personality has developed alongside a trend that has featured minimal Sunday trading – which has also allowed various forms of family bonding and social gathering. (No one can deny or challenge that fact.)
This weekly cycle or pattern is at the very core of how we have developed as a community, as our Sunday traditions have been at the very core of Cayman. Therefore, a suggestion to simply do away with such a significant element of Cayman life should not be taken lightly.
My family had a strict custom of attending church on Sundays, however, many of my cousins and classmates had other customs – such as going to the beach with family, visiting "Granny" (because mommy daddy weren't working), going out on the boat etc. Sundays was our day to unwind and reconnect on a social level with those in our community. Also, it was a day that was "respected" like none other – even by the non churchgoers in the community.
My general point is – why rock the boat (yet again)? Why? There is no pressing reason to expand our Sunday trading laws to "equal" those of other, bigger jurisdictions.
Some argue that modernisation and progress demands a change. To that I say, we have had many implementations of such yet Cayman is arguably the worst it has ever been – socially (rise in crime, family breakdown, drug abuse etc.). Is this the final magic pill that will solve all of our problems … and by chance said pill of magic coincidentally calls on us to disturb one of the longest standing cultural traditions of the country?
Furthermore, I believe we need to cease treating this tiny island nation as a "big city" at every opportunity. I say that because introducing "big city" traits will only continue to bring "big city" problems.
*I lived in one of the UK's biggest cities for a few years and did grow accustomed to Sundays being treated as any other business day. However, when I attended a friend's wedding in Nairn, Scotland – I was fresh out of luck when I realised I had forgotten my cufflinks. It was a Sunday and there were no options as everywhere was closed. Same country, different areas, different Sunday trading laws. Never didI question or challenge the Sunday trading laws and customs wherever I found myself. I simply respected the differences and accepted that each village, town or city must have their own cultural reasons.
I ask all of us to bear in mind the prestige state in which Cayman was (initially) found – and to kindly respect that. For it was because of our unique quirks and customs that we arrived at the jewel in the Caribbean sea to which so many have flocked. Let us not discard and discredit every aspect of Cayman life on the basis of some random economic theory. At the end of the day, some things are more important.
Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for reading.
(Typing in a rush – please excuse mistakes.)
Go to rumpoint on any given sunday and SEE what Sunday traditional "family" time has become.
I applaud your efforts though, and agree with your post 50/50. I think we should be able to shop for GROCERIES on Sundays, that's my only issue. Basically, you can go to any bar or restaurant (which has a bar) and drink yourself to death (your choice) on a Sunday, BUT you can't go shopping for groceries???
We continue to act as a "backwards country".
Native Caymanian.
Arguable points here.
Thanks for replying.
(Personally, I do not drink on Sundays. I suspect this is partly due to my family's high regard for the day as a child, but mostly because tomorrow is Monday!)
🙂
I don't drink "who dat is". The only reason I brought up the point of drinking is that ALOT of people do just that on Sundays, you and I are the minority.
However, I cannot support your label of Cayman as a "backwards country" in this regard.
Even the biggest and most capitalistic countries in the world employs limited Sunday trading in various ways and areas.
Limited by hours only but any business can open. no one if saying not to shortenthe buiness hours winows but give every business the chance to open.
God intended it to be – we set one day aside from 7days a week to focus on God only and get rested !! We want it to stay this way in Cayman….period.
Errr…..which day was it that He set aside again for rest and worship???? I read bible from Genesis to Revelation and not once did I find where that day was changed from the seventh day to the first day. Just saying.
The first day would be Sunday right? However, it is tricky because we are all going by the Roman Calendar, food for thought. Shit, google it if you don't understand.
Actually, the 4th commandment says nothing about worship, just about rest. Whether it is the first or the seventh day will obviously depend upon which day you start counting, which would assume that Sunday was the first day of creation and indeed that we should take a seven 24-hour day creation as literal. Our current calendars cannot give us that information. If it helps you, you can think of Monday as the first day of the week. The point is that the divine plan for physical, social, psychological well-being is that we should take one in seven day off for peace and quiet. It is difficult to have peace and quiet if it is a regular day for everyone else.
Period!
Thank you for replying to my post.
😉
@ 16:00 you can dictate your household rules to those who live in your house, not the rest of us. I have left behind the fantasies of youth like Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy and God because they have no place in a rational adult mind.
So thetooth fairy, the easter bunny and GOD are on the same level?
No offence but you must be an American! SMH.
There have been many men greater than you with 'rational' minds that were also believers. The 'rest' could also equally argue with you not to judge because you believe it to be irrational. Faith is a hard road to take in the modern world because many demand proof of the existence of God. Atheism is an easier route to take.
oh ya, and God wanted us to get wasted while we are at it. At least he/she prioritizes!
But my God tells me to observe on a Tuesday. What you mean to say is that y don't want Cayman to change from observing YOUR specific type of religion
Did you mean "get wasted"?
I suspect a doodoo-storm is about to hit this thread – so before that happens, I would just like to thank everyone that supported my little post. Honestly, considering recent trends, I was quite (pleasantly) surprised by the overwhemling positive reaction on CNS and elsewhere thus far.
Having reread my own post, the passion expressed therein surprised even me. I guess this is what we refer to as "culture".
Everything I said was heartfelt and I believe speaks to how many Caymanians feel on the issue.
Stand strong Cayman.
Thanks again.
– Whodatis
As one of your strongest critics on this site I feel that it is just to congratulate you on a piece well considered and written. That said, I disagree with your argument and believe that leaving things the way they are will inevertably restrict the growth and expansion of the most important revenue earner for the Cayman Islands, tourism. We cannot expect unemployment to fall until Caymanians wake up to the factthat they will have to work in the tourism and service sector, a sector that relies on a 24/7, 365 day schedule. You simply cannot have a reliance on tourism and decide to have a day off because a minority decide that it is good for you and your spiritual integrity. These islands are unique in that the vast majority of workers in this sector are on work permits. Go to most other Caribbean islands and it is obvious that this workforce is made up of local labour, and they are proud of that fact. For Cayman to achieve near full employment things must change, work ethics and customer service are the obvious ones, but an expansion of trading hours and fewer excuses not to go to work also need attention.
Simply put, times are changing as are your revenue sources, the old reliances are slowly ebbing away and the people must adjust to meet that challenge. Stay over tourism will be your life blood if the politicians ever get round to building proper hotels and resorts. Accordingly, Caymanians should expect to be employed at all levels and be paid a living wage in return. But, this vital economic power house cannot continue to be restricted by an antiquated religious observance or a reluctance to work in an industry that requires coverage over a 7 day period.
Finally, good to see that you're not indulging in you repugnant penchant for UK bashing or indulging in fanciful conspiracy theories. When you're not ranting incoherently you can sound quite sane. Well done sir, the medication must be working.
Respectfully I disagree. You say why rock the boat and I and many others say we want options. Many of us work 5 or 6 days and Sunday would be a time when we can actually shop to get our things. For all your speech it was pointless waffling. The simple fact is that this was all done for religious reasons and in todays soceity when religions observe other days its is a pointless position not only that but the fact that others are allowed to disregard it such as restaurants, hotel bars, gas stations, smaller grocery stores, watersports and a host of others it means the law is worthless. We simply need to grow up as a society and allow businesses and people to do what they feel when they feel in terms of shopping. Some businesses will choose to open and some won't and this is all fine. No business is going to do it to make a loss. When I was a child I did as a child and now that I am grown I put away childish things. It is time we followed suit.
You are entitled to your opinion, but kindly do not refer to mine as "pointless waffling" in the process.
At the end of the day, I stand by my initial post, and as far as I am concerned, it trumps all the points you have raised in yours.
well 17:38 you just quoted from the Bible, wonder if you even know that…"when I was a child I did as a child and now that I am grown I put childish things behind me…" Corinthians 13:11
"Rythm is a dancer"
Snap. 1991
Thank you Whodatis, I could not agree with you more! It was especially good for you to highlight that the Cayman Islands are not the only country that does not allow trade on Sundays. I say it should remain just as it is, a wonderful part of our culture and traditions.
I do not understand the whole issue re 'exploitation of workers'. Surely the point is that if the owners of shops decide to open on Sunday, then these shops must be staffed. The staff will be paid for this work. If current staff do not want to work, then new staff will be hired, whom will also be paid. Where is the exploitation? And surely this will also be beneficial in terms of the current unemployment issues.
MIssing the point – Sunday and Holiday workers are entitled to overtime pay. People are already not getting the pay and benefits they are entitled to by law, so why should they be forced to be giving up their Sundays, which is often the only day they have to spend with their spouse and children? Don't get me wrong, Sunday shopping would be convenient, however, considering that grocery stores are open until 11p.m., is it really necessary to be able to shop 7 days a week or is it just pure seflishness of a few? We do not always need to follow everything the USA does. What's next? 24 hours/day grocery shopping?
You seem to think that the whole world works Monday to Friday with saturday free to ru errends. many people i the hospitality industry work mon-sat with SUNDAY as their only day off and only day to get things done.
I respect what religion you’re in sir, but I would say, I am strong in my faith and religion, it is myfamilies culture passed on through our generation, I came from abroad and settled here in cayman. The church I attended since I was baptized back home is open from sunrise til midnight for parishioners and anyone who wants to pray.From Monday til Sunday, same here in cayman our church practice that way. What ever religion you are, you can come and pray anytime. So there’s no excuse of saying you got no time to devote your self to your God and say that you can only do this on Sundays. You can even pray whenever or wherever you want to. No one can stop you from these.
Providing you pay your ten per cent.
Off to the casino machines I go then!!!
I disagree with Elmslie's view here.
Many people already work on sunday, and that's not going to change! Also, many christians worship on saturdays, or otherwise.
It is therefore discriminatory for any religion, or denomination, laws that govern sunday (or any other day) trading.
It seems that if bars can open on sunday….then it should also be legal for any other business to choose to open. And by extention, it should be up to individual choice as to when to shop.
It would also help with the chaos that is involved with trying to do all our business / shopping on saturday.
"Many people already work on sunday…" Bear in mind that those people who work on Sundays do works that are highly necessary or emergency purposes like ambulance drivers. Still I think forcing employees to work every day including a Sunday is not right.
Growing up in Jamaica, on Sunday mornings you got up and went to Sunday school and church. You got home, had lunch and went and got some rest. Lunch would be either a slice of bun and a glass of milk. On that day no shops were opened. There was no noise from the children as everyone had to be inside their house on this day. Not even the television would be on. In the evening at about 4 you had your dinner and then the tv came on for you to watch the Sunday Matinee. That is what I remembered growing up. One of the things that I love about Cayman since moving here almost 20 years ago is the weekends and especially Sundays. You get to relax. People keep their children inside and it is just peaceful. Of course I take advantage of the little shop down the road to buy something that I forgot on Saturday in the supermarket. Of course, I take advantage of the places that are opened on Sundays, but I like the fact that there is a day of rest.
For those who argue what about the Adventists. Well, what about them? They worship on the Sabbath (Saturday) and as soon as the sun sets they go and do their shopping at the supermarkets etc. The Sabbath keepers are also in the shops that open on Sundays getting their groceries done. Frankly speaking if you are a very good Sabbath keeper, you prepare yourself from Friday which is Preparation Day. That way you have nothing to worry about.
I say leave things as they are. It has worked for the last how many years. People who have come here to live and work get accustomed to the lifestyle of the Cayman Islands. You don't see other places changing to accommodate workers do you. Leave well enough alone.
While there is nothing fundamentally wrong with businesses having the choice to open or not open on Sunday, the employee must also have the right, without repercussion, not to work on Sunday because of their religious beliefs. Many businesses have people employed who are of the Seven Day Adventist denomination who refuse to work on Saturday. Perhaps it could work out that these persons would work on a Sunday???
A law restricting trading on Sunday may actually be contrary to our Constitution because one would be giving an unfair advantage to them over other religions and isn't that discrimination?
The Consitution is shit, seriously. True PPM garbage. Trust me, I have read ALL 60 pages of it.
Yes, only 60 pages long!
It is the most contrived crap I have ever read.
How hypocritical? Using that backward logic the minister himself should be resting on Sunday and not standing up on stage "selling" his product to the sheep in the congregation on Sunday. Don't be fooled, churches are big businesses that require cash from their members to survive. They get this cash from collections on Sunday. If I can't buy groceries on Sunday because it is illegal for the stores to be open the churches should not be allowed to sell their product on Sunday either. After Hurricane Ivan stores were allowed to open on Sunday and it worked fine. Let's move on with more important things people.
Here's my 2 cents. I like Sunday being different, it does force you to do other things, however, I also run out of time on Saturday to get everything done.
So here's my thoughts, probably won't work, but lets give it a go. Workers, generally will get shafted by some employers, they need some sort of protection from being forced to work 7 days a week, or 6 for that matter if they don't get paid properly. This is a sticky one as we already have laws on the books about overtime, tips, pensions, vacation etc that don't get enforced.
Have restricted opening times, say a max of 6 hours, or whatever the business comes up with that is viable for them to open, just not a full day. Nothing open before 11am, should keep the Church folk happy, as long as there's an 'early option' for going to church.
If you do have an objection to working Sunday's as an individual then that should be worked out up front, but the employee can't be discriminated against if they do go that route, on the flip side maybe time and a half is mandatory for Sunday work, however see problem 1.
There's room for everyone on Sunday, just need to make sure there's a decent compromise all round.
I truly am tired of reading about potential employee exploitation and laws need to be in place before this could work because workers would be taken advantage of has anybody in this forum ever read the labor law the laws already exist true some aren't being enforced and that's an issue that you would take up with Department of labor. However the laws are very explicit the standard maximum work week is 45 hours before you have to start paying overtime the standard maximum work day is nine hours before you have to start paying overtime unless the person is salaried and managerial if they are salaried and non-managerial then you need to be paying overtime this is a pet peeve of mine with the financial services sector and how they manage to get away with not paying overtime to the salaried staff but that's a conversation for another day.
Furthermore the hotel sector does not shut down on Sundays they managed to trade seven days a week 24 hours a day 365 days out of the year and they managed to employ people and function and make a profit and cater to her tourism sector which is one of the pillars of our economy.
Nobody is forcing a business to open on a Sunday if they choose not to, stop using the argument that if they don't then they will lose to their competition they will lose to their competition if they do not provide appropriate products services and pricing that the consumer wants it is a combination of things that causes one business to succeed over another business and there's nothing wrong with healthy competition it is called a free enterprise system.
nothing is saying that I have to enter into a shop on the Sunday either if that happens to be the day of my Sabbath. There is always going to be naysayers to any change people simply don't like change.
For those who use the argument that it will be the breakdown of the families believe me the breakdown of families is not going to occur because a store down the road happens to be open on Sunday the breakdown of families begins in the home not outside of the home just food for thought just my two cents from a Caymanian who is happy to see Sunday trading take place.
And then we should stop Saturday trading also……what about Seventh Day Adventist, its there Sabatth among a few other religions?
Why? This isn't about pandering to a particular religion. It is good for the community to have a day off when there is relative peace and quiet. Traditionally that day is Sunday.
Sundays not so quiet anymore. Cars and bikes racing all over, loud music playing everywhere.
Sunday in Cayman HAS changed as the people over the last 30+years have lost touch with their morals and values and have failed to instil those same values which their ancestors taugh them onto their children!
The "good ole days" are GONE! Time to make some MAJOR changes so as to PRESERVE what very little piece of paradise we have left.
You missed the word "relatively". It is still relatively quiet and peaceful compared to every other day of the week.That is a good thing.Let's preserve it.
Yes? And you missed out the entire section where I talk about Caymanians having lost touch with their morals and values over the last 30+ years. Try preserving those things and see how damn hard that can be!
Elsmlie is one of the founding churches in these Islands and agree with their stance. So far as the Adventist are concerned, they came here and found us honouring Sunday as our day of rest! They chose to remain. There is NO reason whatsoever to open to trading on Sundays. It is apart of our culture that I wish to see remain.
The practice of having Sunday off so people can get hammered at brunch, up at Rum Point or at one of the many open bars is a Caymn traditon that shouldn't stop. As for the poor souls who have work the brunches and bars, the gas stations and the hotels, they're all expats so who cares about them? And by the way – they all need to go because they're taking jobs from Caymanians. Except on Sundays.
09:17.You sound like a miserable individual.Hope you can find some peace.
Religion should never affect business regulation. We are a group of islands made up of over 140+ nationalities. Stop imposing Christian rules for everyone, this is the 21st century!
This has nothing to do with religion – it is a cultural thing that Cayman has been doing for over a hundred years.
Thats where you are wrong. The church has alot invested in Sunday business.
You religious bigots need to stop trying to force your beliefs down the throats of others who do not care whether or not you want to keep church service on a Sunday. Its ok for you to shop on the sabbath upheld by the Adventists but everyone else should suffer just because you feel Sunday should be kept as your sabbath? No one is stopping you from worshipping your diety so don't try to dictate to others what they should do on their Sunday. My thougts are my own and not yelled from a pulpit every Sunday morning,I refuse to be intimidated by those who delight in telling me that I will burn in an eternal torturing hell by a "God" who loves me.
Wonder how long you would survive in a muslim country with that attitude. Many rules not just in Cayman, were formed based on religious Ideals. You can't live in a country where you have no respect for the status quo.
So I have to have respect for countries where human rights are daily violated as a matter of course? After all its their custom!
@9:11 You are the true "bigot".You are a chauvinistic pig. Never the less your ignorance is just that, YOURS.
I am not with any specific denomination nor do I go around telling people who or what to believe in, I do however encourage EVERYONE to have their personal relationship with God.
I worship something which is much greater than any human being on the planet, greater than any denomination, or any Counrtry. I worship the Creator (you may laugh, but as I said earlier, your ignorance is your own).
Question 1 : Do you think human beings just dropped out the sky? or do you share the ignorant view that we ALL come from monkeys?
Question 2 : What is our purpose while here on Earth as human beings?
Find your own answers, and reflect. Hopefully you will find God somewhere along the way.
God Bess.
P.S I have not attended church since the age of 13 and I know God does not love me any less for it. I am 30 now.
I think it's funny that you openly believe in a magical-sky-Santa-creator and are lecturing others about their ignorance. That's amusing.
My ignorance? HAHA.
SCIENCE has taught me alot. Earth is a dust mite in the grand scheme of things, think about it, research, read books, study then form an opinion.
What? You think all Caymanians are ignorant monkeys hanging from a tree, worshipping as you say "a magical sky santa creator". Grow up.
"All will be called, but few will be chosen." Open your mind.
@ 15:27 oh wow, there is no need to get your panties in a bunch, calm down, just do what you believers are known to do – pray and everything will be just fine…lol
Bravo! Brilliantly said.
Every business in other countries open their doors on Sunday.
How about we put a pettition to close Canton Restaurant on Sunday, as plenty church members have their lunch there after? The servers doesn't deserve a lunch with their family?
Funny is that people fly to Miami over the weekend to do shopping and return to the Island on Sunday evening after a Sunday day out of shopping.
Do you think people would fly for shopping if Miami was closed on Sunday?
Come on…i believe that the business owners should have the right to open their doors any day they feel like!
We should form a line outside of Champion House Restaurant on a Sunday afternoon and turn back each and every person coming there from church (we can easily identify them, ohhh those lined polyester full suits, big buns, long sleeves and ankle length frocks), and let them know, that the food they are coming to devour was prepared by someone who had to work in order for them to have a relaxing sunday afternoon. Lets see how well that would go. A bunch of hypocrites because the marjority of hem only go to church to meet up/catch up and gossip and show off their new church hat anyhow. pssshhh – wooiii pray fe mi because I don't have time to waste praying for myself
Religion is an individual choice. Sunday trading should be open to all or closed to all. Currently gas stations, bars, restuarants,pharmacies are open. Be fair!
I don't think religion plays a major in role in this … Sundays off has been something that everyone has become acustom to both church goer and those who are not religious.
Dear Dr. Dave Hazle I attended a memorial service at your church a few weeks ago for a friend of mine and it was distasteful to say the least, let me explain. “The preacher took the opportunity during the service to advertise his “business” the church at my friend’s funeral, this in my opinion was “sleazy” for lack of a better word. Now on to Sunday trading, I’m not coming to your church or any other church on any Sunday unless it’s a funeral or a CLOSE friend’s wedding who was unable to find a spot on the beach. The church is big business and does very little to nothing for the community, but they’re very efficient in the area of collections 10% of vulnerable folk’s salaries. Hey this would explain why you have a problem with Sunday trading, Cayman in its current position needs all the help it can get, and Sunday trading is a great start. If you and anyone else has a problem with Sunday trading then start feeding the children. Yes we have schools full of them….
You say this because you have absolutely no idea what the churches do in the community in which you live. There are thousands of people who benefit from the welfare departments of the many churches in our communities. Maybe if you were a member of one of these churches you will be able to see exactly what the church does before coming here and maligning them.
Finally, a funeral service is never a place to preach to the dead. It is a chance to preach to the living. Deliver a message of hope for the future to those who are alive and to those who have the chance to change their lives for the better.
Well they should after all they get enough funding from the government. Taking money out of the mouths of the poor, given to the church, for them to give to the poor. Personally I would cut out the middle man.
I could not have said it better!
Oh there is no question that they play a roll in the community alright. In fact they are running this country, which in my opinion is just plain rediculous! I was at that funeral service and found it horrific that the pastor would advertise his "come back to church" service next sunday. I was so angy after hearing him rant. Talk about hitting people with your advertisements to save their soles when they are so vulnerable and impressionable si is. No, im sure that was not on purpose at all. But thats what Church's do, get people in their darkest hours, and tell them that they will be saved if they come to church. Oh, and dont forget to bring cash for that collection plate!
If I told you that I don't belive in Church you would say "Don't come then".
If you don't like to shop on Sunday then I say to you "don't shop then"
If by adverstising his business you mean presenting the gospel then that is what he is called to do and that is what you ought to hear when you go to churches. People come to memoria/funeral services who might never otherwise hear it so it is an ideal opportunity. If you don't want to hear it then don't go. The idea that the church is supposed to conform to your beliefs on its own turf is ridiculous.
I was there, he was adbertising his "come back to church special" the following Sunday. "Don't miss out!" "One Day only to save yoursefl?!" He was advertisng business just like other businsses should have the right to do.
He was inviting you to attend his church for a special service. You were not being compelled to attend. There is no "business" involved. No need for all that hullabaloo. Some people are so silly.
Yes he was inviting us, just lke any other business should invite us to shop at their store. just invite us, not force us to buy. Why is it ok for the church business to advertise and the other business cannot? Church is a business, plain and simple. Love our God but give us yor money.
I agree, I wouldn't want grocery shopping to get in the way of my football watching, binge drinking Sundays. My family would be torn apart!
08:56. Yours must be a miserable life.
is not the end of the world
Who's working these lunches on Sunday I wonder? Why is it okay for these individuals to be away from their families on this day? Are these people being exploited? Sounds a bit like talking out of both side of your mouth to me.
We already have Sunday trading – it’s just biased to some institutions. I'd like to hear the churches opinion on the fact that someone can go to a bar to get drunk on a Sunday but I can’t go to the store to buy groceries for my family.
Sheer craziness. The "Church" had a major role in the law that stipulates that bars must be closed by 12am on Satruday night to observe Sunday as the Sabbath, yet bars are open on Sunday monring before most "Church Services" have concluded.
Furthermore, gambling is illegal in Cayman yet when said "Churches" need more cash than what they take from their congregation every week, they hold raffles, which is a form of what? Gambling.
Two faced? "Our hands are clean, and our hearts are pure" (when we choose).
Cayman culture is so devoted to unregulated capitalism that concepts such as labor unions, sick leave, vacations, or paid overtime for workers are considered abhorrent, because they would interfere with the exploitation of workers. Caymani workers don't particularly mind this system, because they all want to eventually gather enough wealth to become employers themselves, exploiting their own workers. In addition to the Rules, the Cayman also recognize the five Stages of Acquisition: infatuation, justification, appropriation, obsession, and resale. The five Stages of Acquisition may be based on the five stages of grief.
The Cayman concept of conducting trade and business can be best described in the episode "Treachery, Faith, and the Great River". It introduces the Great Material Continuum, a metaphor in cayman culture that describes trade as the binding force of all life in the universe, where there are "millions of worlds, all with too much of one thing and not enough of the other."
The Continuum is a ocean whose current flows from thosewho have to those who want. According to this concept, there is a finite amount of wealth and goods in the universe, and any goods taken from one part of the "ocean" must not be appropriately replaced or paid for by other methods. Thus, one must be sufficiently knowledgeable of the wants and needs of others to properly conduct business. A caymanian sufficiently skilled at navigating this continuum will certainly prosper and amass great wealth and power.
The concept is explained by the metaphor of a Caymani merchant on the sea using his boat to acquire goods in one city, then trade them at another city which needs them in exchange for something the second city has a surplus of, and so on. In the process, if the ocean is navigated correctly, every port along the ocean obtains things it needs, and the boat-trader profits from his service performing the exchanges.
If a Caymanian navigates the ocean properly, he can accumulate wealth and not distribute it throughout society, at various points along the ocean. This may demonstrate an important distinction, even in Cayman culture, between selfishness and greed. Caymanians believe that greed, while essential to their concept of economics, is not inherently selfish, because the pursuit of greed serves a greater good. This is similar to the "Greed is Good" speech made by Gordon Gekko in the film Wall Street. Alternatively, the concept may demonstrate that Cayman culture views both selfishness and greed as completely compatible with improving the wealth of the universe as a whole (which is a fundamental tenet of neoclassical economics).
Say wha?
@8:41 you will find that most readers won't understand what you are saying. I do, as I had an opportunity to go off to school and Uni. etc. but seriously for the majority it will go right over their heads!
Maybe now alot of folks will see that our biggest problem we have in this Country is educating OUR PEOPLE!
08:41.Looks like someone got himself a new book and fell in love with it's strange doctrines.I would suggest that you broaden your knowledge base ,get to know a little more about the Caymanian way of life ,and then comment.
The five stages of acquisition were developed after the three rings of the fellowship were lost in middle earth.
LOL Front of the class for you but it wasn't " Lord of the rings",
close but no cigar. Please try again
The MLA that brought this up is thinking only about the MONEY and the EMPLOYERS.
Those who wish to rest on Sunday will not be prevented from so doing. Those who work Monday to Saturday would be able to shop at leisure instead of tacking that chore onto the end of a busy day. Win-Win.
What this man is trying to say is that churches should be the only insitution allowed to make money Sundays. Selfish, ain't it? Those offerings are their bread and butter, people.
Don't be blinded by what he is saying. Here again religion is trying to tell everyone what do. We who know better should tell them to go and sit down with their self-rigtheous selves and hypocritical ways, as not everyone suscribes to that dogma.
The concept of "thou Shalt not Kill" is based on religion. Should we reconsider this as well?
So then how come so many people have been killed in the name of God perhaps you should look into the history of the Christian Religions and see how much blood is on thier hands.
Has anything been reviewed lately? I was hoping to sneak round to my neighbours yard later as he has an ox that I wouldn't mind coveting. If it is still down as a "no no" then I will just stick to goats.
At least one church that has some back bone!! I totally agree. Don't see how you make $1 circulate more with more days when all you have is $1? I believe there's more to this agenda than meets the eye.
Because that $1 will circulate more frequently. Basic economic my dear!
Wrong. They won't spend that $1 earlier in the week.
You have a computer – Google "velocity of circulation of money" and learn something
Can't have forced church service is there is sunday shopping right?
That would cut into church profits.
Well, if the Department of Commerce & Investment has anything thing to do with this subject, heaven help us all! I rarely get a response when calling this office and if I'm lucky enough to get one, the manner in which I'm spoken to by some of the staff leaves me to wonder if they were properly trained on how to handle their customers professionally. Go Elmslie! We totally agree with your points.
I'm with you on this one, buddy. This whole department is one big joke, especially on Sundays.
Thank you Elmslie!
No surprise that that is their opinion. What is surprising is that Caymanian leadership listens just to them and not anyone else. I wonder what their take on gambleing with some one elses money is.
Hopefully the church minister will confirm that he does not patronise any commercial activities on a Sunday, such as filling up at a petrol station, buying items from a pharmacy or eating at a restaurant. I would like to think his opposition is not hypocritical, only extending to those businesses that don’t provide services convenient to him.
Hello, isn't that the only day he does work?
This is very simple. No Sunday shopping period. With all the issues about unemployment, I have no idea why this is considered important. Sunday is a day of rest, leave it as it is. We need to stop destroying everything Caymanian.
Sorry, 00:15, Saturday is the day of rest to some Don't ram your religious beliefs down my throat!!!!
00:15, I am assuming you were drunk when you wrote your post.
"With all the unemployment" you want to keep people from possibly working on Sundays when these people do not have jobs in the first place?
You are a complete donkey.
10:41 this will not help put anyone to work they will just bring in more cheap labour.
Well it seems some churchs may be experts in economics – we can cut certain ministry staff and save money there. They are also experts in business so we can have them advise there too – more savings! Hallelujah they are also experts in the labour market – wonder why they didnt offer to help with the NWDA – we could have saved some money there too! And with the level of certainty in their opinions – it could be a hundred times more effective! And no need for the Yankee! Gosh I am giddy at the possibilities! And who needs EY! Thanks! Dont wait to be asked -sign up please!
That Church congregation organises itself to hurl insults at gay visitors, so it is hardly a beacon of clear thought.
Sunday family brunch?
First off, what about the housekeepers at hotels, or maintainance staff, food & beverage staff, front desk staff, Police officers, fire fiters, doctors, nurses, janitors, Diver masters, dive instrictors, water sport staff, spa staff. I can go on and on! What about them? dont they work on Sundays? seems the island has not fallen apart. Or do you just want to make sure people have time to come to your sunday mass. The reference of Chick-Fill-A is a good one that we should go by as well…. let the COMPANY or BUSINESS make the decision, not gov't to be open or closed.
Ultimately the decision is this: should religious interests dictate public policy for the rest of the country? It's a yes or no. The answer is obvious to those with a sense of reality.
You are asking yourself the wrong question so you must get the wrong answer. The right question is whether it is good thing for the community to have a day of relative peace and quiet. The obvious answer is yes.
21:15 YES.The answer is yes.
The "discrimination" that Elmslie (and us all) need to be most concerned with is; discrimination against those who worship on a day other than sunday.
Also; many people work mon – sat, and so sunday is the obvious day that many will find convenient to shop.
Many persons work shift work; Police, Customs, Immigration, Fire Service, Health Srvices, Hotel industry, restaurant industry and others…
The bottom line is that people and business should be allowed to shop / open as they please. Government should facilitate this….not get in the way by making, or maintaining, discriminatory laws to dictate to their citizens, residents, visitors when they can shop.
In this day and age where Freedom is cherished, let the people choose whether they wish to work on the weekend or not; Saturday and Sunday included. The work week should be Monday to Friday and if businesses choose to open on the weekend they are free to and the choice to work on the weekend should be left up to the employee without fear of retribution.
So hotels and hospitals and police stations and fire stations should be closed on Saturday and Sunday? Great thinking …..
yawn….. more backward nonsense from the churches……zzzzzzzzzzzz
No bingo or raffles as well then either!!!!
Lord grant me this day the strength to say what needs to be said. Grant me the wisdom to show the misguided the error of their ways. Leadership of Elmsie Memorial you are so misguided and off the Holy path that is set before you. Our mission on this earth is to follow in the footsteps set before us by the bible and the teachings of Jesus. In the Garden of Eden the Lord set forth Adam and Eve to enjoy the world that the Lord created. He said to them not to eat of the fruit of the tree of wisdom but allowed them the ability to choose their course in life. Themoral of this story is simple. We have choice, he grants us this, the ability to choose the right and wrong paths in life. The Lord wants them that come to him to come willingly with a open heart and this is why few will be chosen. Many Churchs today try to FORCE people down the right path yet our father in heaven did not. What message are you sending? Are you saying you believe his way is not the right path? Do you not realise that the path is narrow and that to attain this path one must WANT to be on it and not be FORCED unto it? Stopping Sunday Trading is not the answer. People who seek the Lord seek the Lord every single day and this is why when I hear about the "this is the sabbath" and "this is the day you should worship" I always cry for I see lost sheep struggling against man. There is no one day and this is what the new testament is about. Everyday is the right day to spend time with your Lord. Everyday is the right day to keep holy. No day grants you less time with him, no day is more holyier than the day you choose to be with him. It does not matter if you work on Sunday so long that in your heart your love is in the right place. I noticed you choose to fight for this by forsaking your religious stance and choose the life stance while in your heart it is the religious stance you take you only do not wish to show it. Let people choose what they will, this is a right granted by our father in heaven and take pride in the fact that those who do not partake and come to church are their by choice. No business will open knowing they will loose money. The Foster's and Hurley's group are wise and understand finances and will make their decisions wisely and likewise other businesses. Allow them the right to choose what they will do because this right was granted to them by our father in heaven and who are we to say his decision is right or wrong? May God Blessings be with us all here in the Cayman Islands to know and do God's will BY CHOICE!!
This is a tradition on OUR islands the almighty dollar is not worth doing this for as stated it won’t end up being very much of / if anymuch difference,
Save this part of our history and stop selling away our heritage
And I’m poor myself barely making ends meet myself but I hold church and family dearly.
Just in case you have not notice, there is already Sunday trading in Cayman as seen by the petrol stations, restaurants and bars that are open. What are you so afraid of. All people want is a choice. You would not be denied the right to celebrate the Lords Day or spent it as you choose, so why deny others that choice.
P.S. – I watched an R rated movie last Sunday. See you in hell!
There is nothing of any substance in this drivel. On what basis do they make their assumptions? Of course they conveniently leave out the minor detail that Chick-Fil-A has the right to chose to open on a Sunday should they so desire. Should we too not have that choice? Can we just accept that people should have the right to chose their own lifestyles and move on to more important matters, like legal exemptions granted to churches for example?
Sunday trading will undoubtably lead to an economic gain for the Islands; so the only real arguements are cultural and/or religious ones. Perhaps a limited loosening of blue laws would be a good compromise, as well as test of the cost/benefits.
I mean lets be real here for a minute here all you church goers… its ok for people to get absolutely smashed on a Sunday at Royal Palms or Brunch for that matter, but hell if you want to do some groceries at Kirks or Fosters on a Sunday well that's against the Lords will?!?!?
LOL! Hypocrites!
Furthermore, they all go to the Islands restaurants for lunch after Service where guess what? People are working.
These people are crazy, they choose to go to Church but no one else can choose to get their groceries.
Brainwashed eejits.
Really, the amount of beuracratic crapthat goes on in this island…. first they complain that there are no jobs… then we say lets open business on Sunday, now its against religious beliefs… this is the 21st century people!
It is quite simple really; if you've got an issue with shopping on a Sunday stay at home… let the rest of civilization carry on!
The Church is irrelevant, who cares what they think? Beat your wife and come see us on a Sunday, all is forgiven. Oh, and thanks for the cash.
19:41, would you like to purchase some of our raffle tickets too?
All those great Caymanian qualities are wonderful, but, it comes down to personal choices made by persons with, I hope, and educated conscience. Why should we need government regulation to run our lives? Secondly, if people do any shopping on a Sunday, that does not prevent worship, family getting together, people resting etc. It is not a matter of choosing one against the other.
Furthermore, not all Christians are Sunday sabbath keepers, so how do you want regulation for the Sunday sabbath keepers only? It is all about personal choice, whether guided by religion, or otherwise. The days when the churches dictated to governments, and governments dictated to the populace are long gone.
I am a Christian, but I believe that the churches as well as govts. should not attempt to run peoples lives for them. Educate your people, and hope that they will make proper choices, after all, they are not children.
I fully support this congregation's opinion. Cayman has functioned well for decades as it is. This is only being done to appease a select few. It is shameful that this government instead of focusing on actual problems like our terrible immigration policies that are detrimental to Caymanians, the high unemployment for Caymanians, the sickening dump situation, the total lack of new projects and business, they choose to focus on Sunday Trading and day light savings! OMG! Are these people for real? Read my lips (words) NO SUNDAY TRADING AND NO DAYLIGHT SAVINGS!!!!
Read my lips (words). There is no "S" on Daylight Saving.
What about the people who feel the same way about Saturday? You know, our Seventh Day Adventists brothers and sisters. They have to put up with all the Saturday shopping, partying, picnicking, and general mayhem. Why should we honor one religious practice over another?
Dragon Inn in Countryside now open on Sundays. Woot woot. Just saying coz you know the devil is in the details.
18:59, we picked our lunch up from Dragon Inn on our way back from Church last week, it was awesome that others had to work to prepare our food so we could enjoy our "cultural fatigue" when we got home.
We couldn't tip the servers though because we had given our extra change to the Church when the Pastor requested it, like he does every Sunday before we go to any of our countries restaurants after Church for lunch.
Great news, will be going there this Sunday, and sure as hell not to some church where they want 10% of my salary that could pay for a few of thier congregations dinners
Please Cayman, don't listen to this old time nonsense from the church people. We young Caymanians do not feel this way and all they are doing is perpetuating a dreary old Cayman of 50 years ago. It is time the influence of the church on things here was greatly reduced or we will never get ahead in the modern world.
Who died and made them God?
Just my personal opinion………. I do not want or need any church official or group trying to run my life. We should be allowed to do whatever we want any day of our life as long as we don't break any laws or infringe on someone else's rights. I don't try tell you church folks what you can and cannot do, so please give me the same courtesy.
Well written letter. Seems like most people think that the opponents to Sunday trading are only people who attend church but as Dr Dave Hazle has indicated it has more far reaching repercussions than justfor those who attend church and their beliefs. Some proponents are quick to say that the ban should be lifted to allow shop keepers the choice of whether to open or not but what they seem to ignore is that most of the time it is not the shop owners who are working at the store, it is others who will be forced to work on a Sunday because the owner wants to be open while more than likely the owner is at home relaxing with his family. As stated in the article there is no guaranteed economic benefit from opening on a Sunday. People have habits and while habits do change from time to time, there is no guarantee that people are suddenly going to shop more because the shop is open on Sundays. I think what will happen is if for example supermarkets are allowed to open, they will get the occasional drop-in customer who forgot to pick up toilet tissue or something else but I doubt there is going to be scores of people suddenly shopping on Sundays. My biggest hurdle with the Sunday trading is that there must be at least one day for people to rest, recover from our already busy lives. Most companies/businesses are open Monday to Friday, retailers also are open on Saturdays so if the law is changed and my employer decides that he wants to open on a Sunday then where does that leave me? I will have to work on a Sunday or else he will find someone else who is willing to. Even if he offers me anoher day off during the week in lieu, my children are in school during the week and my husband is at work during the week as well so family time disappears. So this is not just about religion, this has other effects.
I just got a call from my god, he says it is not a problem . . . . . .
Ummm…I think you were scammed!
I am a Jedi. You can sho on Sundays no problem. You will just not remember it.
Ok, we will not allow trading on Saturday, Sunday and Wednesday.
Grow up, we are in the 21st century.
Agree. Please ignore the greed of the merchants and realize that the working class would be taken advantage of and keep this day of rest. Even with holiday Mondays we are clever enough to plan ahead.
Thank you for being our social Christian voice.
Just like in most of the islamitic states, the church tells people what to do.
Cayman seems no different.
Time to keep religion a private thing and mandatory for everybody.
Times have changed, we are getting behind on the rest of the world.
18:20 i guess we are so behind time that we dont have school shootings yet-serial killers etc i want to go to your 21st centry country and live in your freedom your paradise,gee i feel so bad that i live in such a backward country woo is me,cayman we better start get with it lol.