Lawyer: Roadblocks illegal
(CNS): A local criminal defence attorney has filed a complaint with the director of public prosecutions and the police over what he says is the illegal temporary detention of drivers during police roadblocks and checks. Peter Polack told CNS that he believes the frequent checks set up by the RCIPS where they randomly detain law abiding motorists are unconstitutional. He said the human rights now offered to the Caymanian people under the Constitution are not being protected by either the police, the attorney general or the home affairs ministry and the people need to use the law to hold them to account. He said that the police have other ways to check licence infractions and do not need to pull over law-abiding drivers.
“The police traffic check points for vehicle coupons is, in my view, illegal and a complaint has been made to the DPP for unlawful detention,” Polack said.
The lawyer explained that he and many other drivers were detained by officers, despite committing no crimes, in a traffic check close to the cricket ground in George Town at about 10:30 pm on Saturday 11 October.
“The Constitution guarantees freedom of movement and the police should only stop the citizens of this country in any public place on suspicion of commission of an offence. The Department of Vehicle Licensing has an available database with any expired coupons and the police should not be detaining citizens for this purpose," Polack said.
"The Constitution guarantees the people of the Cayman Islands certain rights, which they must enforce as they cannot rely on the attorney general, the commissioner of police, the minister of home affairs and premier to protect them from obvious and open breaches of their human rights by the very same persons sworn to protect them.
“Recent examples require voters to demand people first. Those who endorse this behaviour or fail to denounce this conduct should feel the lash of the electorate on Election Day,” the attorney added.
In his complaint to the DPP Polack points out that the member of the RCIPS who stopped him and other drivers displayed no visible identification or number as he was wearing a dark protection vest.
“In reply to my query as to the reason for the stopping of my vehicle and detention I was advised that this was a 'coupon check'. Persons who were observed being stopped in an extensive line of traffic late at night were not advised of the reason for their temporary detention,” he noted.
Polack pointed out that the coupon checks and the temporary detention are unnecessary because of the DVL records to which the police have access. But worse, he claims, these stops amount to a breach of section 5 of the Constitution, which provides that no one shall be deprived by government of liberty and security of the person. He also said that Section 5 (3) says anyone detained has a right to be promptly informed of the detention without having to ask.
The lawyer warned the DPP that the roadblocks also amount to a breach of section 13(1), which provides that no person shall be hindered by government in the enjoyment of his or her freedom of movement, that is to say, the right to move freely throughout the Cayman Islands. He added that the Penal Code requires those employed in the public service to protect and uphold the constitution, not breach it.
Nor is Polack alone in his concerns about the police road blocks. The former minister for community affairs and memebr of the previous UDP Cabinet, Mike Adam, said he too has had concerns about the road checks for some time.
“This impromptu coupon check is a third world practice that causes harassment for the motoring public. Needless to say, while one is unlawfully detained it provides the opportunity to detect other offences i.e., DUI, Seatbelt, Window Tinting,” Adam said.
The police do have the power to stop and search people if they have genuine reasons to suspect someone may be involved in criminal behaviour, especially in relation to drugs. But it is unlawful for police to merely stop people in the hope or on the off-chance that they might have committed a crime.
Category: Crime
They stop the vehicle look to see if the coupon is up to date but dont see if the license number on the coupon matches the license plate number .. LAUGH MY BUTT OFF!!
Nor do they check to see if the license plate is covered up with one of those amber things that makes it impossible to read.
If we follow Peter Polack's logic then speed limit signs ,stop signs, traffic signs,and traffic lights are all unconstitutional,since they serve to detain us. Where does this man get his ideas? This is utter lunacy.
That’s stupid logic. Please consider the meaning of the word detain. Here, let me post that for you:
detain (dɪˈteɪn)
vb (tr)
1. to delay; hold back; stop.
2. (Law) to confine or hold in custody; restrain.
3. to retain or withhold.
I'm not sure it is a offence to have an expired ticket if the car is found not moving but parked, also one could say they were on their way to renew the ticket at that moment, hence the after 4pm and on weekend stops, they phsycally have to catch you using the road to make it be and offence if I remember correctly.
Insurance is a different case I think you go stright to jail for that, along with drunk driving.
The way I feel is let licensing do their own dirty work and let us drive the roads freely.
This is just one lawyers opinion. It doesn't mean he is right.
This is just one layers opinion. It doesn't mean he is right.
In my opinion, roadblocks are annoying however they have there purpose. I feel that roadblocks should be conducted at random times and for a minimal amount of time, not 45mins or an hour, they should be a few mins here a few mins there and areas like west bay road, and yeah just east and west of sunset house during the evenings to catch some of those drunk english officers as they drive out of the parking lot, from the rank of PC to the second highest rank in the RCIPS. And that way they wouldn't be able to reverse into a privately owned trailer and just park their vehicle back in the parking lot and go back to drinking until after the PC's show up and leave. What people on here don't realize is this the drunks are one very serious issue, but the criminals are by far different they know who is working and when , 8-12 officers at a road block where's the coverage. Example a road block at grand harbor just between Hurleys exit and Selkirk drive entrance robbery happens at west bay road esso , what's the traveling time from grand harbor to west bay road , give and take 5-6 mins for an emergency response vehicle/s to arrive hmmm criminals know that the officers are that amount of time away which gives them more than enough time to rob the gas station and disappear into thin air. How long do you really think it takes to commit a robbery, under a minute that gives them what 4-5 mins to vanish. This is more than just what's constitutional from what isn't people. The police have a lot more important things to solve than spending an hour or 2 conducting a roadblock, what about all the burglaries that's being committed and the robberies, and murder. Put as much emphasis in coming up with a strategy to fight crime and regain the publics trust and confidence in the Rcips as what is put into figuring out when and where and what time would be best to conduct a roadblock. When was anyone ever arrested for any other offense other than DUI or other traffic infraction. Yes DUI are a concern but be proportionate and reasonably with it. What's more important traffic infractions are the alarming crime rate in cayman.
And you wonder way the crime rate is increasing..
What a load of bolacks
What a fickle bunch you all are eh?!
Just a few news stories ago Cayman was being lambasted as "3rd world" for our stance regarding Sunday trading – but now some of us are still complaining when these "1st world" absurdities pop up in the country.
Wasn't the call to modernize and "catch up with the rest of world"?? Well, there you go folks … issues like these come along with the package.
Make a choice.
Let's all agree to aim for the 2nd world then. Communism is underrated.
There should be a 24hr roadblock with sniffer dogs on all roads out of West Bay and East End.
… and GeorgeTown. Stop leaving yourselves out!!!
GT STINKS! It is the Capital and it is a DISGRACE!
Camana Bay tho… Jolly brill!
I agree Mr. Pollack its not necessary to stop people in a roadblock. Anyone can see these criminals driving around during the day or night. The database could easily be set up to give info on any driver without a coupon or ins.
Police in riot gear are not necessary to drive around and stop drivers for traffic infractions. It looks like we took a step back . I believe police would find more criminals hanging on the roadside not working and check them. I believe if we have a coupon for factory tint or medical problems that would be fine also. But if not check them when they at the grocery store or parked in town.
If a roadblock is necessary use it at night . Thats when the drugs and drunks are moving around like mice.
I recall years ago being flagged over by a solitary police officer stood by the side of an empty road so that he could check my tax disc. At the time I thought he was acting unreasonably towards me and that I was being imposed upon without good cause, and I still have that feeling today whilst sat in a line of traffic awaiting the same thing. Yes, I know it can provide the opportunity for all manner of things to be brought to light to help in the fight against crime, but if that argument is to be accepted then why not stop me whilst I'm walking down the street and search me? After all, I could have stolen property or an illegal weapon. Or why not do a search of my home for the same purpose? Or my place of work? My point is that we all need to take great care in accepting what is done to us by the police with our acquiescence in the name of helping them fight crime. There is a fine line that no sensible person would wish to be crossed, and being stopped by the police for no good reason other than to check if I've paid my road tax remains for me a step too far. On the other hand some folks might feel it's worth it – I just don't!
There is certainly nothing wrong with traffic stops especially on weekends when some people tend to over do it with the alcohol, but we really have to take a step back and weigh the odds, because every time we read the news all we can see is good law abiding citizens being attacked by robbers armed with knives, machetes and what appear to be firearms. It is very disheartening to see that with all of the CCTV cameras on the streets and with the highest amount of police officers per capita in the world and this sort of criminal behavior continues to occur here in Cayman. So if the RCIPS would dedicate as much time and effort as they put into road blocks.Patrolling the streets and spot check some of the shady looking characters that roam the streets day and night some of them with T-shirt tied around their head or riding their bike with a machete stuck up between the rear axel and the seat. Imagine a Burger king worker can't even take a chance after finishing a night shift to walk along West Bay road for fear of a knife or machete wielding thug robbing them of their possessions?
Never, ever have I been stopped at a roadblock, or know anyone who has in the UK. Its a ridiculous practice. People used to see one set up at say LoneStar roundabout and pull off into Royal Palms ffs and do the same when they set them up at the Hurley r/bout except they would drive through the car park……
Pulling people to check coupons is a lame excuse and if its not an excuse and the truth then it a poor use of resources when it can be checked byt other means very easily.
I have no issue with road blocks as long as they catch criminals, drunk drivers etc.
A little inconvenience to you Peter might just be what saves your life or that of someone else. Keep it up RCIPS. As far as I’m concerned those road blocks are helping to protect my right to live safely in my own country.
With all due respect, I think you are missing the greater point here.
Yes, the greater point is that people who having nothing to hide having no reason to complain about this sensible crime prevention strategy. You are an apologist for criminals.
Oh my Lord, we bitch that the RCIP do nothing, then when they do we still bitch. Get a life, with the checks they can also detect DUI, which could save a life. Too much rights has ruined the USA do we want that here also.
If Peter wins this one I will purchase one of his pallets, er I mean works of art.
Get a life……wait till something happens to you and then you will change your tune.
Yes, i agree completely. When things evolve whereby you can get stopped by the police for no reason and searched by the side of the road, only to be let go because they coudn't find anything unlawful on you some, simple minded folks will indeed change their minds. Excellent point.
My God what is this Island coming to…. It is becoming the the USA.. I am out of here soon anyways as a native caymanina looking for a better life I have no other choice.
It is being bought by an X-US citizen and rebuilt as he imagins it.
Don't bother coming to the States. We don't need you!!!
The States??? Caymanians moving to Monaco, Dubai, Singapore, Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden and France. Why run from 3rd world to 3rd world?
What! ?
A Camanyan has a choice of where they can live… and work…say it aint so!
Don't tell Lizzard or the Emporer of East End
Currently, under the Police Law, police officers have the power to 'stop and detain any person whom he seesdoing any act for which a license or permit is required under any law and require such person to produce his license or permit'.
It will be interesting to see if Mr Pollacks' arguments about the constitution hold water as this could become a dangerous precedent to erode some basic police powers which most feel aren't being used enough as it is!
Can you please tell me where / what section of the it states this I would like to read more on this thanks
Your missing the point. If you are driving home with your family you see not doing an act that would give them powers to detain you.
06:05.Unless you have a lawbreaking family member on board.
I'm not sure I follow this story, surely you only get detained if you've broken the law by not having a valid visible coupon, all the ones I've been through have been a slow drive by a police officer, at worst you might claim you were slowed down a little. So where does the 'detain' part come in?
Great! The only law enforcement they actually go out and do and its illegal? I guess its now down to wait until there is an accident then go when they get the call. If only they could take a government sponsered trip to the U.S. and take notes on how to actually catch dangerous drivers and ticket them without causing problems for every one else. The roadblocks worked here because they could call all their friends and the "honorable for life "families and warn them.
I came here to say the same thing. It the only way they know
15:16.You say " If only they could take a government sponsered trip to the U.S. and take notes on how to actually catch dangerous drivers and ticket them without causing problems for every one else."I have seen a few examples of that on America's most shocking,not sure that I would recommend high speed chases or armed police in hot pursuit for our local officers.
Americas most shocking is not Americas normal. Me having to tell you that just shows just how far backwards the "normal) is here.
The constitution of a country is devised to be followed by all, no exceptions to the rule. If this practice of illegally stopping and detaining persons is in contravention of our constitution then it is illegal and no one, not even the governor or the queen nor their repreentatives, has the right to breach the constitution of The Cayman IslansS. Thank you Mr Pollack for bringing this issue to the forefront.
Hell, we need more road blocks, not less…far too many crazy, drunk, dangerous drivers and unsafe cars.
I think there needs to be a balance. Have roadblocks only when there are emergencies, and not on busy hours when people have to go and come from work.
I personally have no issue with occasional random road checks tocatch drivers in the actof driving without insurance, coupon licence etc. What is annoying though is that when drivers are found without these items…particularly insurance…they are allowed to continue with production of documents at a later date. That means someone could hit me who is uninsured etc and driving illegally having been sanctioned by the police to do so! Confiscate the car at the road block….that will sort out the criminals. Persue them at their homes/work from data from vehicle licensing. A good few weeks of that will sort out the criminals for sure.
Reply to comment -14:35: I think you're slightly off-centre here. Licencing issues, insurance issues, etc. are not criminal offences; they are breaches of the law, but not criminal offences. However, to get back to the topic under discussion, I am personally a little ambivalent on this one. If the police catch a serious-crime criminal I shall, like all law-abiding citizens, rejoice, celebrate and offer kudos, but it does annoy the dickens out of me when I have to spend valuable time waiting in line in order for police to check whether or not I am in compliance with all relevant laws. One has to remember that it is usuallnnot merely the six or seven minutes it takes to check one person that is at issue here. Add the time it takes to check the thirty, forty or fifty cars that were ahead of you and then you actually have an idea of how long you can have to wait in line for the exercise to complete. I am mindful her to mention the fact that Mr. Pollock pointed out that since the Licencing Dept. has a database of all cars registered in the Cayman Islands they could spend a fraction of the time the that the police rob us of to do a search for delinquint motorist. Once they determine who is delinquent they could pass the info unto the police for them to handle as they see fit.
This is a qualified lawyer?! I hardly think being in a queue of traffic is being "detained by police" or "restricting freedom of movement" and he is intentionally misconstruing the wordings & the Law. Can the DPP complain to the Law Society for him making mischief?
If the police don't do much people complain, & if they do take action, people complain.
The number of approval votes for this post surely points to the need for greater public education on issues relating to personal liberties.
‘Complain to the Law Society’ ! Well, Peter has the right to speak freely his thoughts and observations. You should understand that simple and basic Right first. Education and understanding, don’t let your schooling interfere with learning more, don’t stop learning, ever.
I'm happy to give up some constitutional right for the safety of the islands citizens & residents, by & large. While road blocks wont really affect anyone law abiding , it may allow the police to aprehend thieves , drug runners & other non-law abiding individuals. Just look at the news of robberies , car-jacking & burglaries. Give the police some public assistance in getting them
The use of road blocks must be proportionate to the intent. If RCIPS sets up a road block to look for robbery suspects during the first few hours after the crime having occurred, that would be legal under the Constitution as it is proportionate. Likewise a road block set up a day or two after a murder would likely be proportionate. However a road block for that same robbery mentioned above may not be proportionate the next day as a judge may determine that the impact on law abiding members of the public may trump the likelihood of finding those suspects.
I am entirely for RCIPS having all the tools in their toolbox to catch criminals but it must be proportionate in order to be lawful under the Bill of Rights.
Could the use of road blocks not be considered proportionate on a Friday night after 10pm based on the number of people who drink and drive regularly? Until behaviour changes and it becomes iregular that people drink and drive surely they have an open book to continue with the stops.
I just assume that after 10pm on Friday or Saturday that everyone's been drinking and adjust my driving accordingly.
I’m out after 10pm most Friday nights. I don’t drink, at all. So you see, your assumption is wrong, not “everyone”. This is a dangerous line of thinking, something about too much power equals corruption/abuse/control, it’s absolutely true too.
So is Polack suggesting that officers, after checking their database of expired coupons, should now come to individuals homes and issue the a ticket? I am sure he will make noise about that too…just update your coupon Polack like a “law abiding” citizen and I am sure you will be ok the next time around!
In addition to road stops could not the folks handling the desk jobs not do a computer scan to find unlicensed cars etc?Seems to me this would certainly help the situation.
Leave it to a lawyer to make a case over nothing. I am more than happy to be stuck in traffic for an additional 5 to 10 minutes if it means police are dealing with those who ignore the traffic laws on a daily basis!!! Come on now, just give it a rest.
I did not think of that one…
I agree with this 100%. With the level of crime increasing in Cayman, I would rather know that the police are spending a significant amount of time patrolling neighbourhoods, business areas and tourist spots. People have lost faith in the police as we don't see them doing their jobs, following up on leads and using the resources available to them (CCTV cameras) to catch criminals. There are so many complex things that the police can do in Cayman, but we only see them lingering in the bush to hand out speeding tickets and at road blocks. People are fed up!
I don't mind the roadblocks if it is a SMART roadblock that serves a purpose. Sometimes, however, I dont understand their agendas. There is a police office stopped at the Shamerock road Red Bay school section almost daily. There continues to be people illegally using a school turning lane to get ahead of traffic and you'd think the police would pull these people over. 90% of the time the office is just sitting in his car and watching these offenders drive on by in the wrong lane. What exactly is he doing there? I never see him getting out to give them a ticket. Maybe once a week I see him on the side of the road checking stiickers however he leaves his car flashing which gives plently of time and distance for offenders to switch direction, turn around or pass the officer in the middle lane.
Agree with Mr. Polack on this!
The Police have the technology to check for coupons without such massive disruption to traffic. Also, if the Police would do more speed / radar traps, and just be visible and diligent at roundabouts and other roadways, they could more effeciently accomplish safer roads.
Road blocks are not just to capture licensing infringements they are used to deter drinking and driving . Drinking and driving is a real problem on the islands and many unnecessary deaths have resulted from it. I will give up my human rights so that I can drive without fear of being killed by a drunk behind the wheel.
Mr. Polack it is my understanding that under the Human Rights Law the Police can carry out any of their duties if it is in the interests of public safety. I would say it is in everybody's interest to be able to drive on a road from drunk drivers.
Try driving around in Ontario Canada on a Friday evening in summer and chances are you will be stopped by a road block and the police officer will put his head in your car, literally in your face, while asking questions. If an alcohol scent is detected you are pulled over for further evaluation.
With all due respect, that's, er, Canada.
You must mean a small radius coming out of Toronto. Ontario is 350,815 square miles in area, with no roads whatsover in a lot of it.
Like he said we are not a third world country so stop treating our citizens as such.
If we don't want to be treated as 'Third World Citizens' then we should stop behaving like we are!
Perhaps we should aspire to be more like Singapore, Japan or Switzerland, where people respect the Law & each other.
He is wrong about that. Hence the need for road blocks and checking cars for the many non law abiding persons living here. Of course every time the police do anything the criminals will cry foul. Lots of crying here. Look at what they have for leadership.
Better to speak up about the Police state now, than let it get too far, it isn't just GT the Eastern districts get them all the time day and night.
So what I get out of this is the lawyer is saying that using the police to follow up with the Governments creditors (those that haven't paid for a new sticker) is an illegal use of police powers?
So why doesn't the traffic licensing have other methods to chase creditors? As any local business would? Or don't they know how to create a template letter and send it to those that are past due on their stickers? It's not like they don't have the names and addresses.
This would be a simple method of collecting revenue without delaying everyone else. Oh.. wait.. but then the government wouldn't get the revenue from giving a ticket to a person that is having a hard time coming up with the money for the sticker….
This is just too much guys. Everyone knows that roadblocks are not only for coupon checks. Wonder what Mr. Polack or Mr. Adams would have to say if an unchecked drunk driver ends up crashing head on into one of them or one of their loved ones? Please stop complaining and let the RCIPS do their job. Human rights or not, I want to live.
I think they are speaking of road worthiness checks in high traffic times, rather than sobriety checks which have a value of deterrence. I suppose one could catch a drunk at noon on a Saturday, but it's probably unlikely.
Polack, will you also complain that the RCIPS are not doing enough when more people are injured or killed by drunken drivers?
Finally, someone has taken the time to examine what right the police actually have to intimidate people like this, and found they are in fact in breach of the Constitution. I cannot wait to see what happens with this.
Mr. Polack never ceases to amaze me with his absurd allegations. Some time ago he was on the band wagon where a Grand Court Judge had suggested that everyone was entitled to free legal advise. He even said that was constitutional. But alas, it must have been a different constitution than I have read because Cayman's present constituion did not say that. So could it be that Mr. Polack has once more read more in to the Constitution in his narrow interpretation of it than there really is?
If Polack thinks that slowing a vehicle down to check the coupon constitutes "detainment" then I am going to sue every taxi and minibus driver for unlawful arrest.
this is the last straw now!…..how foolish to think like this and worse yet put it in writing!!
I think people who are disagreeing have lost the whole point of Mr. Polack's article. We are constantly being told about the limited resources of the RCIPs in relation tocrime fighting. The DMV has an available database of persons who are in contravention of vehicle licensing. Use the database to issue tickets and fines against those persons who you know, as a result of the database owe money to the government.
Whenever I travel outside of the Cayman Islands, I am always regaled with stories from my family members and friends in the US and Canada about receiving notification in the mail about traffic infringements. They never see the police who are issuing these tickets as everything is captured on camera, from speeding to parking illegally. In addition, they have traffic wardens who walk around the streets issuing tickets to persons who are in volation of the traffic code.
The RCIPs has a lot of work to do, conducting traffic stops in the middle of the night should not be one of them unless they are looking for someone, then in that case, it is all bets off.
We have CCTV cameras all over the Island, we should use them to do more than just stand there staring into space and utilise them for these issues.
Happy day for all that practice drunk driving!
Within months RCIPS will be installing automatic licence plate readers on all cars, so stopping them won’t be necessary.
Must scan them as they drive by, and track any car’s movements across the Islands remotely.
But …would that also be an intrusion on civil liberties?
I'm happy to see that we're finally exercsing some sense in this Country! People's brains are drying up because they're frying them on the beach. All the freedom fighters in the world and in history didn't make change by sitting around on the beach. Lincoln didn't free black slaves by sitting on his buttons. Ghandi didn't just lie around on the beach. I can go on.
So, Polack, you earned your legal education, I say use it and let those that have no brain go to the beach and write their ignorant comments. Freedom for the wise and the foolish! lol
I thought the days of Jackasses and donkeys were long gone! But I see we still have a few around.
Ye, 21:15. That's why you don[t even have 1 thumbs up. Hmm.
You will not seethe Judean People's Front at thebeach. If you have come for a nice stroll on the beach, try the Campaign for Free Galilee!
I totally support these roadblocks. Much good has come of them. They are used all the time in the UK and there is nothing illegal about them. There should be a permanent one in place at all exits from West Bay.
why is that? to save you ass from getting caught from driving without lic, ins ect..if they r going to do this road block all the time, they should do it to all the districts at the same time,not just focusing on one district..AND I'm tired of everyone who has to bring in west bay in every comment..the island has it bad everywhere
10:05, WB is by far the worst of the lot, as are its elected Leaders and brainwashed minions.
Heck! Do more roadblocks! But enforce the laws!
How many vehicles out there are driving w/o license and insurance, odd colored lights, super dark tint, tinted license plate covers or no license plates!
If a vehicle is stopped and does not have insurance, how can they be allowed to drive away???
Believe me, if a vehicle is stopped and knowingly allowed to drive away and gets into an accident with me, it will be the RCIPS who will be paying for the damages.
Same goes with vehicles that are repeatedly reported to the RCIPS as not being roadworthy and uninsured and are known to members of the RCIPS, but drive right by and not stopped.
Just another argument for a vehicle pound. Impound those vehicles, get some revenue! That will encourage compliance!
Agreed. I thought I might explain why you see blue, pink, red lights etc on cars, they know there's nothing in the law that defines what white light is. The law says you have to have white lights at the front of the vehicle but some smart lawyer argued to a judge that his client's blue lights weren't breaking any law as the law doesn't define white. As white light contains blue elements how much is too much blue, when does it stop being white?
Now you and I could stand in front of a car and say yep they are blue but according to smart arse lawyer and judge we can't say they are blue because the law doesn't define blue, or white.
A one line amendment to define white light as being between 4000 and 5200 kelvin is all that's required.
07:53, 07:51 and 07:45, please, you appear to place little value to the freedoms we have a right to enjoy and which Mr.Polack has very correctly pointed out are currently not being respected by the authorities. If we are mute when this occurs a very dangerous situation can develop in regard to our liberties, can't you see that?
8:19, they can't see because their heads are up their a$$; has been from birth!
Get my drift?!
Well having the database is nothing. If I have a car parked in my driveway with an expired coupon so what. I have not commited an offense until I take it on a public road.
The only way for police to figure that out is road stops. If some idiot hits my car and he has no insurance I have little remit unless I have full comprehensive.
Now they could use the license plate readers the CCTV system has with a little technology and just pull them over further down the road but they have no access from a roaming point.
Also what do you do for drink driving. Same thing. I dont want drunks on the road.
Stop wasting peoples time.
Praise God someone that will stand up, so rare in this island
It's about time…I see all the negitive comments from people who have never had a constitution and clearly have no idea what it is for. It starts with a "Stop and Search" and ends with them your homes taking you belongings. The amount of Tyranny you will get, is the amount you will put up with! Wake Up Cayman!
Let me guess. You watch FOX news
It really shows.
I am afraid that a certain lawyer may be trying to canvass support to launch his next career as a politician. Whenever there is a comment on here about the RCIPS about the way they deal with the vehicle offences it's usually that they don't do enough. Now here we have a moan about them doing it wrong. Is it any wonder that the officers feelthe public don't support them. It is said society gets the Police it deserves. Best we all be careful what we wish for.
The issue is exactly that the polce don't do enough. Police turn a blind eye regularly to traffic violations including speeding, illegal passing, vehicle defects, coloured lights, no lights, covered number plates, etc., etc., etc. Doing traffic enforcement only using roadblocks is rediculous if they aren't out there stopping all of the vehicles committing traffic violations in their presence. It is like they are scared to stop and engage on a motorist stop. You don't need to have 8 cops with longarms dressed in all black (like at a roadblock) to correct the behaviours of the drivers in this country. More officers out of the office and put on the road, making stops of those drivers committing violations with a useful ticketing and car impound system would turn this around in a matter of a few weeks! This isn't rocket science.
8:13, no Cayman Status foreigner can ever have a chance of success as a politician in Cayman so I am certain that this is not the motivation behind this.
Are my human rights not been violated when the police cannot protect me due to some bending of the human rights rules?
Can anyone please tell me of a way to check vehicles, drunk drivers ect etc etc. without stopping the vehicle.
I was thinking there could be a sign up that says" if you are committing an offence please pull over, if not have a nice day and carry on"
POLICE:- Please stop who you feel you need to when you want to. IT SAVES LIVES!
The problem here is ,we have too many foreign nationals in our police or law enforcement agencies here now, that come from jurisdictions where they truly believe once you slip on a uniform or are given authority you can do as you feel like to others. When provide with a weapon it is merely an oportunity to increase the level of unparalle intimidation or threat to the person they are dealing with. We have all seen this untrained behavior and conduct may times in Cayman. An officer presence should not or never instill dread or fear on citizens nor suspects it should be confidence (He is doing his Job ) and safety (he is there for my and benefit whether i like it or not.) This is something Derek Haines instill on many who work with him and its why his leadership is sadly missed now. Thank Mr Polack for raising this matter so many of these government and political law enforcement hawks believe otherwise.
I agree with 8:09. Thank you for posting.
If the coupon is good, you are free to go. The reason the traffic is stopped is either mismanagement of law abiding traffic or, more likely, a glut of traffic offenders. Please keep it up RCIPS. Of all the people we would hope would understand and empathize with the task of law enforcement, it would be the DPP. One look at their laughable conviction record and you'd wonder what side they're on!
While i don't know about the legality, there does seem something distinctly odd about being stopped merely so that it can be checked that you have paid a road tax. This is way over the top, doesn't seem reasonable and is a darn nuisance that needs looking into, definitely.
Give it a break please. Go find some other stupid thing to make a fuss about.
So If I follow correct, you are saying "randomly detain law abiding motorists" so this is the illegal part, but if the person is a non law abiding person its ok.?
Somewhere down the road, the police is supposed to know exactly who and when to pull over the criminals. Mr Polack you my learned friend have learned nothing , and is looking for something to grasp on. Go fight for those stupid iguanas that the same persons that breed them and let them into the wild is now paying persons to kill them.
As a law abiding citizen, I do not mind to see the police in action using this as an excuse to keep up with the criminals moving between districts. Get over it. We have other serious issues that you can defend, like defending this place from lawyers comming here from around the world to tell cayman how to use there laws.
If you read the article you would see that Mr Pollack's point was that the poilce DO know who the offenders are by checking the vehicle database. Then it is a simple matter of using the road blocks to check for the offending drivers, in the UK the database is connected to police cars so that the police car gets an alert when an offending drivers license plate is detected. This is an example of how to detect offending drivers without affecting the law abiding citizens. This may not be possible right now in the Cayman Islands, but a manual check will work the same, this will also detect one of my pets peeves, unreadable license plates.
And yes of course it is okay to detain non law abiding citizens, they are not abiding by the law and so need to be detained, charged, fined, or otherwise penalised.
In general the police do a poor job of penalising motorist for breaking the law, am always drivers with illegal tinting, illegal number plate shading, speeding, on thier phones, tailgating, illegalling hawling trailers without plates, people riding in the bed of trucks, etc. and a lot of the time I see the police drive right by without batting an eyelid. However is there is an opportunity to use their blues and twos they will rush to their target even if there is already 4 other cars there!
I agree with Mr. Polack! This random stoppage of vehicles is done merely to bring in a few dollars in fines to Government coffers. I witnessed a most laughable situation the other day. I happened to be near the Govt. dental clinic on hospital road when a prisoner was brought in, [I assume for dental work] wearing leg cuffs as he hobbled in, while being escorted by two men in black "prison guards I assumed" both were armed with what looked like AK47s.
After escorting them in to the clinic they 'THE MEN IN BLACK" suddenly appeared outside and stationed themselves at corners of the building firearms in hand while scanning an area about thirty {30} feet from the clinic [which is basically surrounded by other buildings] while doing what is known as sweeping the area with gun in hand pointed toward the building next door from where myself and staff members in the building, watched this comical situation.
But! Although enjoying comedic situation decided we had better move away from the window from which we observed this comedy of errors!
Not Funny! But Very Laughable.
The point I'm making here is, we have people wearing uniforms [security guards included] whom we expect to have proper training and who we should feel comfortable being around, and know that they have superiors who willmake sure that these people are trained properly and are capable of doing their job.
Mr Polack this is the big problem in Cayman now , that too many like you that feels and believes that you should be above the LAW when you are a good Law abideing citizen . I have seen too many good LAW abideing citizens drinking on the boat all day and get into your car and drive home, The LAW is that drinking and driveing is against the LAW this is why we get a D U I when we drink and drive . So leave the police alone they are doing a good job when they do these road blocks, they are trying to save lives ,the one that might saved might be yours . The police have the right to do a road block when they feel it is neasary to do thier job !
So we now know that the lawyers are on the side of the criminals. Gee there is a surprise.
These people who thumb down above are hiding something from the police! Come on let all work together with police to have crime free country and it won’t work if no roadblock and people refuse to help the police.
As a self-professed "law-abiding citizen", I am sure you would not begrudge Mr. Polack his right to point out the law? Yours is the most pompous remark on this thread so far and I hope that genuine people can see through your flowery speech.
AGREED!
Have I commiteda crime?
No
Am I free to go?
I think Messrs Polack and Adam are going too far now.
I don't really mind them. I just use the down time to chat on my phone or catch up with my texting. Lol.
RCIPS and government do not be afraid to do your job. You have the right to block any road in this island to do your job. I would rather be safe than sorry, what good is human rights when an uninsured driver kills another motorist because the police could not set up a road block to check for proper documentation. What about people who transport illegal guns in their vehicles where is the human rights of their victims?
That's a great argument for a police state. You should move to China.
So if an insured drivers causes an accident it's okay?
Besides when have the polices at these roadblocks asked to see your insurance? I've never been asked.
In order to get your coupon renewed you need to show insurance, there may be date differences between the two, and yes you could have a valid coupon and no insurance, but you have to start somewhere. You aren't required to carry your documentation here, you are legally allowed 7 days to produce the evidence of insurance, so it's fairly pointless asking – as you are allowed to leave anyway.
What about the collapse of any subsequent trial if it is shown that the police illegally stopped the vehicle in the first place, so any evidence obtained is lost? And are you seriously suggesting that the best way the police have of detecting illegal weapons being carried is to stop random cars and hope that the gang bangers have been stupid enough to not pay their coupon and give the officer some lip so he has an excuse for searching the vehicle. Hint: having expired tax is not a valid basis for search, and the chances of catching a weapon transport when you stop 100 cars with 20000 vehicles on the island!
This is lazy policing aimed at revenue raising offences. They cannot be bothered to trawl the database for expired coupons and visit the offenders, or even do something as simple as patrol the supermarket car parks and ticket for expired coupons, no insurance or window tint. Traffic cops cannot be bothered to actually patrol and pull over erratic drivers who may be drunk or drugged. Let's face it – how many vehicles do you see in a single day where it's obvious an offence – be it tint, seat belts, dangerous or erratic driving – is being committed. Now how many times have you seen a cop pull someone over? No – all too hard. Lot easier to set up a roadblock once a month. And how many people does that actually catch, and how many serious offenders? Hell, I reckon I could ticket more people in a single walk around Fosters car par, or on my daily commute, than these clowns do in a roadblock once a month.
RCIPS need to get off their a*" and do their job the same way it gets done in any civilised jurisdiction where the cops are actually committed and professional. "Do your job" is the right message – they do not need to break the constitution or breach basic human rights to do it, they do that because it's easier (but less effective) than doing it the proper way.
LOL, I knew this would happen one day 🙂