Police must follow earthly, not heavenly, commands
(CNS): The police commissioner told a former officer sacked from the force because she refused to work on Saturdays that there can only be “one lawful command” for officers of the RCIPS and that was an “earthly one”. Following a disciplinary hearing of Sergeant Theresa Solomon, who had converted to Seventh Day Adventism and refused to work from sundown on Friday through to Saturday evening, David Baines dismissed the officer because he said she had sworn an oath to the RCIPS which she was intentionally breaching. In the hearing, which was released by the RCIPS, Baines said he could not support Solomon’s request for an exception that she not work on her Sabbath because her contract was a secular commitment.
“The oath of office and employment contract are a commitment between the secular employer and employee and represent the expectations and requirements of the RCIPS and the Government of its police officers and supervisory officers,” Baines stated. “There can only be one lawful command, and that is the earthly laws of the Cayman Islands, and the commands you receive from the officers of the RCIPS."
The commissioner pointed out that the RCIPS is an emergency service and all its officers are required to work 24/7 to be responsible and, when and where necessary, save and protect life.
“The nature of our job is that we are unable to schedule when the call for assistance will arrive, we cannot cancel demand between sunset on Friday to sunset on Saturday,” he said. “Quite to the contrary, that period is one of the major demand periods for the police."
The dismissal of PS Solomon was an unusual one, he noted, because the breach of the discipline code was fully admitted and intentional because of the officer’s conscience and what she claimed was a directive from God.
“Regrettably, that stance places her in direct conflict with her employers and the law of the Cayman Islands,” he said. “As a police officer, she swore an oath to uphold the law in the office of constable, there were no exceptions or restrictions in that promise.”
Baines added that the size of the RCIPS would not allow the officer to be excused to facilitate her Sabbath without disadvantaging others and at additional cost to the organization.
“You are a respected officer, well regarded by your colleagues, supervisors and myself,” Baines told the Sergeant as he dismissed her from the police service.
See related story here
See the commissioner’s full statement below.
Category: Local News
Even orthodox Jews are allowed to work on Sabbath to "Shomer Israel"
"protect Israel" to guard the state.
The bible rules do allow for bad guys not following Shabbath.
Did she really? For those of you who agree that she should have been given the day off based on religion. Then you would also argue that any officer who is of the christian community (faith)should be given sundays off! SMH
If you believe in the nonsence of the bible or any other religion, you shouldn't be working for the police anyways.
If you actually believe we are all coming from adam and eve, and don't understand what inbred means, believe that snakes talk to people, your are simply an idiot.
WARNING NOT FOR SCOFFERS OR THE DOCTRINALLY INSECURE!
http://amazingdiscoveries.tv/c/9/Science/
As for Ms. Solomon’s dismissal, I have no comment other than that if I were the commissioner, and especially seeing that at themoment there aren’t hundreds of SDA officers vying for Sabbaths off, I would have been more considerate. It’s called Religious Accommodation. They have it in other countries and it never results in wholesale conversions to Seventh-day Adventism or any other religion. But who knows? I see here what very likely could have been a power struggle and Baines simply had bigger teeth.
What I cannot ignore however, is the flagrant lack of respect shown to God, His Word, and to one who has chosen to follow them as best as they know how. Notice those thumbs? The more bitter, derisive and ridiculous the comments the more those thumbs go up. But to be completely fair, can we really blame em? I mean, we grow up in a world where from as early as we can remember, we are drilled to believe that we evolved from monkeys. We chuckle n, just relax while watching The Simpsons, Sex in the City, Dexter and others whose only constant and seeming main objective is to ridicule Christianity and tear down the very principles our societies were built on and for which some of our forefathers died. And then we turn around and look at the mess were in n wonder how in a few weeks we could have so many shootings on our Beloved Isle. But surely these were bible believing bandits, bussing offthey guns right? And let’s not forget the weekly stickups n bank robberies – them must be them fundamentalists.
Come on people, WAKE UP!
Did you know that the black plague and wholesale deaths caused by physicians not washing their hands, was stemmed by principles outlined in Leviticus?
Christmas n New Year’s Day is right around the corner, how many more lives will we have to lose before we see the wisdom in Proverbs 20:1
Out of one side of our mouths we scoff at the commandments of God and out the other we comment about the good ol’ days when we didn’t have to lock our doors, and how today it’s so hard to find a woman with even a semblance of purity.
Honest Astronomers, Archeologist, Dieticians, Geologist, Biologists etc., one after the other, are taking their hats off to the Bible.
History… Do you know what the claim now is? Historians, unwilling to accept The Bible's prophetic accuracy, claim that it must have been written much more recently than was once thought. And, in came the Dead Sea Scrolls, putting a sock in that.
People, wake up!
God says, “I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand…” Jesus says, “Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe.” So in the light of II Timothy 3:1-4, it should come as no surprise when the youth them rinksing of they machines in WB, but it should stand to us that the bible is what it says it is and that it can be trusted.
For those who don’t know, understand or even trust anything the bible says, but who are of inquiring minds, who aren’t insecure/ afraid to examine the other side of the story the following website is for you. For Christians of any denomination who are tired of being ridiculed for your faith, this link will be of great interest to you.
WARNING NOT FOR SCOFFERS OR THE DOCTRINALLY INSECURE!
http://amazingdiscoveries.tv/c/9/Science/
Thank you for reading.
I read this, and just threw up a bit in the back of my throat.
http://richarddawkins.net/
Take a moment to watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr1I3mBojc0
I am a Christian – more of a spiritualist – ie very open minded and believe we are all looking at God but through different windows and to respect all faiths….
I can't however believe the ignorance of so many who take the bible literally, or cherry pick what to follow from the bible. If you believe we shouldn't work on Sabbath (whether you consider that to be a Saturday or Sunday) have a look at this guy's attempt to follow the bible literally as you are doing:
http://www.ajjacobs.com/books/yolb.asp
"The Year of Living Biblically is about my quest to live the ultimate biblical life. To follow every single rule in the Bible – as literally as possible. I obey the famous ones:
But also, the hundreds of oft-ignored ones.
So, if you don't work on your Sabbath, fine. But for goodness sake please be EVEN about it and also do not shave your beard, and when you see the person who you know is sleeping around and he is married – please do pelt a rock at him.
Here's another (if you are so strict for instance on keeping the Sabbath holy, you should also keep this one – so theoretically all SDAs, and all Christians who follow the bible literally, should wear white to church, and always?): "Let your garments be always white" Ecclesiastes 9:8.
I love this one: If you set your slave free after six years, but he decides to stay, then you shall bring him to the doorpost and bore a hole in his ear. (Exodus 21:5).
Er, OK except there is the bible now promoting something (slavery) that most decent people today believe is heinous and is also now against the law.
The other thing I find bizarre about the sabbath thing is that on perfectly good Christian who may be Presbyterian will keep Sunday's as her Sabbath, and Seventh Day Adventists will keep Saturday. Each one believing the other is slightly erroneous, but each one good Christians no doubt.
I think the point was to keep a day holy and restful, and take time to praise God on that day, and love our neighbours, but I don't think the point was to read it so literally.
Listen be mindful of your statements “Spiritualist” if you truly knew and understood your bible you would know that the scriptures in which you quote such as the clothing of mixed fiber the slave and so on were from Moses law! These things were done away with and only the laws of the ten commandments stand without the radicalism that Moses had called for at the time.. Jesus changed all these things when he came to Earth. This is why we no longer need to Sacrifice an animal to and need a priest to pray on out behalf. When Jesus died on the cross he was the ultimate sacrifice and we can now go on our knees and pray directly to God through Jesus. Please do not put these things in short format to confuse non believers.. read your bible entirely and understand.. dont just pick here and there to confuse people. Smh.
With all respect, if the commisioner gives her that right he sets an operational plan. So tomorrow when other police officers say they want it off or if Sunday worhipping officers want Sunday off he would be in a mess. So he has made the right decision.
I appreciate your comment, and my guess is that you will agree that we can find better solutions to the problem than dismissal
She refused to show up for work. What was he suposed to do? Give her a raise?
Here is my take: Solomon was party to a "contract", an agreement between her and the RCIPS – an agreement to which she was a willing party; her newly formed religious beliefs made it impossible for her to honour her contract without contravening her beliefs. So what to do?
The Bible teaches that Christians must act honourably and be faithful to their word and their commitments but must not be a party to accords that contravene God's will; therefore, the honourable and Christ-like thing for her to have done was to ask to be excused from the former agreement and try to negotiate a new agreement. If the RCIPS could not accommodate her desired work shift request, then she should have acted honourably and resigned with no further hooplah. It was the officer who acted in a very un-Christlike manner, apparently just to make a point. Sadly, the only point most people got from her drama-queen antics is that a dogmatic approach to Christianity is just plain stoooopid.
As an atheist, I am always amazed at the amount of **** that people get away with because they claim to have an imaginary friend who cannot be verified or proven but who must be "respected".
Richard Dawkins rocks.
That's about right — and that's about all he can do.
As Dawkins once said: "Well, what if I'm wrong, I mean… anybody could be wrong. We could all be wrong."
For example like you are now… RD is a very articulate writer on subjects of profound importance. Since you think "rocking" is all he can do, I expect you've never read his works. That would make sense, if you are religious, since reading books is frowned upon by religion since it might lead to analytical rational thought, the abandonment of baseless faith, and after that, who knows? Reason perhaps? God forbid! (…and I mean that literally.) Read first, then criticize. Otherwise, you sound quite uneducated (which is how the church would like to keep you).
I suppose it was really impratical to think that Baines could not have asked 1 of the other 300 officers who didn't have a religious excuse to work that shift and to give the poor lady a break for her Sabbath?
Many Adventists are able to work out this same scenario with their bosses on a regular basis. Don't believe for one minute this will set anyone straight on the matter as it is dealt with all the time and will keep on being dealt with in the future. Lot's of people want ceratin days off for many other reasons besides religion and they work it out between other colleagues and their bosses. Maybe this lady didn't have very good negotiating skills.
Baines needs to be just as hard nosed with criminals as he has been with this lady.
Yes it was and is impractical for Baines to give her special treatment. And then what happens when 100 other police officers are converted to her SDA faith do they all then get the Sabbath off. Come on folks lets be realistic here. She accepted employment under a contract and she has to abide by that – every day is a day or rejoicingand kindness and praise and sabbath and if we lived our lives like that the world would be a better place.
She should be treated no differently than any other staff member. Why should she be given preferential treatment because of her newfound faith? Baines made absolutely the right decision both morally and professionally.
You know I might entertain this arguement IF she was not an officer (now former officer), tying to uphold law and order in Cayman.
To me, if you are in the medical profession, police, fire etc you work any time, any place that there is a need to assist the safety, health and lives of people. If she were a medical professional would her God think it is OK to walk past a person drowing just becuase it would be "work" to provide medical attention or CPR? Geezzzz.
Second, if I understand things correctly, she was an officer first then converted to SDA. She changed, not her job. IF this was that important to her she should have figued on a new job when she converted. Her decision is right up there witha recovering alcoholic continueing to work in a bar mixing and serving alcohol.
Third, in her profession as on officer, common sense would tell you Friday night and Saturday night would be busy working days and nights with drunk drivers, domestic violence, robbery etc. Are these crimes against God's laws and humans not worth stopping or preventing in the eyes of her God?
Sadly it is people like this former officer, that make most us dislike religion and in particular the SDA.
As they say, common sense ain't so common anymore!!
People need to live holy every day not just a particular day. I am not hung up on any special day. I understand that some religions have holy days, holy water, holy artifacts etc, but more important God is looking, above everything else, for holy people.
Someone stated that "FYI… this one of the few democratic countries where Christianity is enshrined in the national Constitution. Things should be interesting when the Bill of Rights is introduced next November.
As far as the practice of the religion, and keeping all 10 Commandments… that is an individual choice. Each is led by his own conscience.
However, there is no sin against doing good on the Sabbath — that argument is EXACTLY what Jesus Christ was convicted to be crucified for (healing on the Sabbath) — and by religious people!
If a police officer or any other worker works to help others – and does it to the Glory ofGod – on a Sabbath, who am I to question them?"
I don't understand why someone in the RCIP that was a Seventh Day Adventist, did not sit down with Theresa Solomon and explain to her the true tenets of the faith? RCIP lost a good woman officer, and I felt someone of her faith in the service could have at least reasoned with her, and explain to her that fighting crime is a good thing.
I am am a Jawa, from the Sand people of Tatouine and my worship day is monday, unless it is a bank holiday then it reverts to the previous friday.
What concessions will be given to us?
wootini!
A Jedi does not require a day of rest nor any recompense for the path he leads.
We are Jawa. We are not Jedi. They can have all the force they want, but we have lots of robot parts for sale. Except for Mondays.
I really have to petition my boss on this. I really want to go to heaven and I am so confused about which day to keep holy and refrain from work.
The Pastafarians claim Thursday.
The Muslims claim Friday.
The SDA claim Saturday.
Catholics and others claim Sunday.
American football says Monday.
Dominoians or Papa Johnians or Subwayians say TwoForOne Tuesday.
Wednesday is super special because it's hump day… if my wife doesn't have a headache.
To be on the safe side, I have decided not to work on any day.
I’m a Pastafarian, and I want Pasta Thursdays off so I can eat pasta, I mean worship, at my favourite Italian restaurant.
You can learn more about my religion at these links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
…and the good people of George Town best not make the wrong decision, because of Deuteronomy 13:13-19:
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases…you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.
When exactly is this and will there be free food?
Exodus 31 verse 15 tells you exactly what to do:
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.
….. and at this time, a man will lose another man's hammer.
So are you saying that as "Christians" we are to do absolutely nothing and therefore, the entire world is to be at a standstill on Sabbath? What then happens and the law enforcement stops, the criminals will be on the loose. Think of the consequences, don't be stupid. The God that I serve is a God of Order, not of senseless behaviour. GET REAL!
This is where religion gets stoopid: the Bible clearly sets forth what God expects but God's people often choose to just pass up on obeying commandments that do not fit their lifestyle or their ideas about how things should go. It's kinda like you go through a cafeteria line and pick and choose what to put in your plate according to your personal preferences and inclinations that day. The Commandments seem pretty clear to moi. But do they really mean what they seem to express, or are they subject to interpretation? If they are subject to personal interpretation, then what's the point?
Don't get me wrong: I am with you on this one. I mean if we take the Sabbath Commandment at face value, the world would come to a standstill and people would be forced to have a day of refraining from any work, enjoy total rest and relaxation with little to do other than contemplate God. (Uhh…hold on here…wasn't that the idea behind this Commandment? Well, those dusty old rules were ok for then but times have changed, right? So we need amendments to the original Ten. For example, in the present case we could have reference to, say, Commandment 4.1.d. subsection (iv.): "It shall be OK with God for RCIP officers to work on the Sabbath." God did not make things clear enough, so it is up to us to make suitable amendments, right? Of course if God had added proper clarifications Moses would have needed a truck to carry the tablets down from the mountain, so I kinda understand why the Ten Commandments are so brief.
Like you, I tend towards the idea that the Ten Commandments should be amended to suit the circumstances and practicalities of the situation; for example:
"I am the Lord they God and thou shalt have no other gods before me."
(Except for followers of Big Mac, of course. They must be exempted from this one. Mac hates not having the last word. When Mac learns what God's word has to say about some of the stuff he does as Premiere, I am confident that Mac will direct McField to file a lawsuit.)
"Six days shalt thou labour, and on the seventh day thou shalt completely chill out and do no work: neither you, nor your children, nor your indentured expat helpers from less advantaged countries."
(Except for cops, doctors, other emergency personnel…and bartenders. Right? But then again, how about pilots, CUC power station workers, hotel employees and water plant workers? They are at least as necessary as bartenders to maintain order, no? And NO cooking on the Sabbath, right? Jesus gathered and ate raw stuff on the Sabbath, so that's ok. But few people refrain from cooking on Sabbath and eat raw stuff; those that do not cook need the services of restaurant personnel, no? So they get a pass too? You think that going through a fast-food drive-thru to "gather" some chow might comeunder the "Jesus gathered food so we can too" blanket pass? How about pizza delivery? Gee, this is getting confusing. So where do you draw the "no work on de Sabbath" line anyway?)
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours wife."
(Yeah, yeah…but what if she's really hot and lives right next door and she always sunbathes topless around her pool every Saturday afternoon?)
"Thou shalt not commit adultery."
(Ok, but what if she's really hot and she comes over and sunbathes topless around my pool every Saturday afternoon while her husband is off playing golf? Ok, ok… I can see I am gonna have to write the amendment to this one myself.)
"Thou shalt not kill."
(Brings to mind the story about good ol' southern boy who, when asked why he shot the feller laying dead at his feet. The hick replied, "Awww…The b_stard just needed killin." So do we get a pass for people who "just need killin'? For example, if we kill in self defence? But what constitutes self defense? Suppose someone comes at me with a cow cod and I clat him dead with a big leg of cassava? Do I get a pass? Where do we draw the "no killin' line? Simple, Commandment 6.2.b., subsection (xii.): "If thy neighbour shouldst cometh after thee to smiteth thee with a cow cod, doeth with him what thou willeth; the Lord shall continueth to blesseth thee". But what if this is the neighbour with the well-tanneth wife who cameth home early from golf? Is smiting me with a cow cod considereth "work", in which case I executeth righteous judgement when I clatteth him with the cassava? It getteth complicated, huh?)
Why do you rail at the idea of keeping the Sabbath in accordance with God's Word? Was it not God who commanded that Sabbath be honoured and that anyone who breaks the Sabbath commandment be executed? I do not see any fine print in Exodus with an explanatory note containing exceptions for cops. You are pretty much saying it is up to us to make exceptions and amendments, right? Great! So me and my nicely tanned neighbour are good to go on Saturday, huh?
BTW: Is the "Sabbath" Saturday or Sunday? From sunset Friday evening to sunset Saturday like in the Bible? Or is it 12AM to 12AM? If Sabbath is Sunday do we go from sunset on Saturday? Or what??? To be safe maybe we better let our cops off from Friday evening at sunset until 12AM Monday morning. Help me out here; as you can see I am a bit confused.
Dear friends and readers. Being of a particular religion don't make you any more of a christian than a garage will make a Toyota convert to a BMW.
The problem in the world today is RELIGON and not RIGHTEOUSNESS! Remember, it's Righteousness that exhalts a nation not a religon.
When we distinguish between the two your Heavenly father will Bless and safely keep you from all harm.
Jesus and working on the Sabbath
Religion is a topic that is extremely sensitive, no matter how you broach it, it will never be completely correct in the heart of someone. The mere mention of religion typically resonates throughout one’s being from origins that are frankly unknown and unexplainable. Therefore, its unexplainable presence to many is the only reason it should never be questioned. This strong innate sense of a definite connection with the great creator and architect of our universe has undoubtedly caused bloody conflicts for millenia. History contained within the Holy Bible and in works from earthly scholars have recorded that much of these conflicts are caused by man that have twisted divine truths to fit his own agenda. Moreover intolerance which then leads to conflict are further perpetuated by ignorance of the layman simply relying on the utterances of twisted divine truths from those intelligent enough to light their own path.
Before delving into my rather succinct contribution I would like to state that much more Biblical background facts are available to corroborate my point. Therefore it is not mere conjecture on my part. Posting it in this specific forum will be far too lengthy.
The fact that Jesus kept the Sabbath does not in any way prove that the Sabbath is still in effect today. The Law of Moses was in effect till Jesus' death (Col. 2:14), so Jesus was born and lived under the Law (Galatians 4:4). He kept the Sabbath for the same reasons that He kept the laws of animal sacrifice. But when He died, He removed the Old Law and instituted the gospel (Hebrews 10:9,10). The New Testament nowhere requires resting on the seventh day of the week, as did the Old Testament.
However, by no means whatsoever does the above give the right to any man to disrespect God and his Holy word as did Commissioner Baines in his tactless statement “The oath of office and employment contract are a commitment between the secular employer and employee and represent the expectations and requirements of the RCIPS and the Government of its police officers and supervisory officers,” Baines stated. “There can only be one lawful command, and that is the earthly laws of the Cayman Islands, and the commands you receive from the officers of the RCIPS."
But your right to believe in a fable, as literally irrational as that is, does not give you the right to point to that same fable as authority to ignore the requirements of the real world.
Some versions of religion require people to kill other people, fly airplanes into buildings and whatnot. Do you really want to support the position that people can point to the fables as authority that both justifies and binds their actions? If so, you have to say that the 9/11 hijackers were doing the right thing, because they REALLY BELIEVED that their fable required them to kill all of those people.
Good enough for you, good enough for them, right?
However, I find it hard to agree with Baines's notion of a "divide" between the earthly and spiritual order. Isn't it imbedded in the police belt buckle, the solemn words in Latin, "Dieu et mon droit," which means, "God and my right hand"? Such words are the motto of the British Monarchy. Not saying that Solomon does not hold a flawed interpretation, but the fact that Baines would use a secular argument to quench an extreme religious view, makes me question his faith in the Queen's view of a Supreme God that "determines" the policies of men, rule, and power that was bestowed to her. Would he dare say that there is a "divide" between "Dieu" and the British Monarch of England? Of course, I advocate the separation of Church and State, but I can't help but not see the contradictory nature of this British system. Anyways..
Actually, a more correct translation would be 'God is my right' (but not literal) and refers to the Monarch's divine right to rule – the belief that the monarch is in effect appointed by God. Without getting into a philosophical and religious argument, I think it unlikely that Her Majesty believes that God 'determines' the policies of men – this would imply that there is no free choice in the world, that everything is pre-determined, and therefore God is not able to act as He see's fit.
It's "God AND my right", as in "God and my right shall I defend." Est means is; et means and.
Libertarian, there is an important difference: your right hand isn’t imaginary.
I agree and disagree at the same time. To say that they law of the land takes priority over the law of God is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, the Sabbath is the sabbath of the Lord our God.
However, Jesus showed how we can keep shabbat without too much concern. I cannot support that she refused to work on shabbat/sabbath. If she thought it was that much, find somewhere else to work.
Yes sah,
So the law of God takes priority over the law of the land?
But what about people who have a different imaginary friend to you, who gave them different laws? Which one do we follow then?
Keep your religion where it belongs, in your own church and your own conscience.
It belongs in the bin, actually. Humanity can’t move forward until it rejects the superstitions of the prior dark ages.
So much for freedom of religion. You are clearly in favour of tyranny in support of your own belief system.
Freedom of religion means that we are not compelled to hide our religion as you suggest.
Commissioner you are so wrong!!
haha, get you fingers off the thumbs down button, I'm just kidding 🙂
All the officers that worship on Sundays, you should now apply to be exempted from working from midnight on Saturday to midnight on Sunday, leaving the SDA workers to fill the void. Do you now see the unreasonableness of your request Ms. Solomon? I don’t think the RCIP is trying to be disrespectful to the fact that you have found God with the SDA religion but you cannot possibly expect them to bend to every wish and command of every employee based on their religious affiliation. In short, what you were asking for was special consideration which could be interpreted by other officers of the RCIP as management being biased.
I don’t know much about the SDA religion but Ms. Solomon’s case is not about religion. She has made it about religion in order to gain sympathy for a choice she made but as Mr. Baines said she in direct contravention of her contract, he may be sympathetic to her plight of no longer having a job but he has to follow the rules. Otherwise every week we would have some person who wants some special consideration because of some religious belief. Total chaos would ensue.
So I suggest that Ms. Solomon and all the SDA members, supporters etc stop making this about religion. You are behaving as though it is her right to be employed on her terms (deciding when to work because she felt she got a directive from God.) Don’t misunderstand me, I am by no means making fun of Ms. Solomon’s belief but you have to also respect the laws of the land, otherwise people can do whatever they feel like and say they got a directive from God.
I would love to be able to work from home so I can be a full-time mother but my employment contract says nothing about being allowed to work from home so unless I renegotiate a new contract if I want to be a full time mom and still get an income then I need to find another job that will accommodate that.
I completely agree with the Commissioners decision. He had no choice to make this decision even though it is clear he was sorry to see a good officer leave the RCIPS. Unfortunatley if you wish to uphold a right to religion you must be prepared for everyone to uphold their right to religion. If Ms. Solomon were to be granted her request, then equality (as per the "soon come" Bill of Rights) demands that the Commission likewise grant any or all of the religious Sunday sabbath observing officers the same concessions. The result? Almost zero officers working from Friday to Sunday night!! Imagine the chaos.
Your opening paragraph makes a good point.
I saw exactly this kind of accommodation operated in the USA, where Jews work shifts that cover the Christian Sabbath and religious holidays that their faith does not recognise so in return they don't work on Shabbat or their high holidays.
The same happens in the UK where concessions have been made to a number of religious groups. It's doable if the will is there, but it clearly isn't here.
Totally agree. Great job commissioner.
Unfortunately, Mr Baines still has the provisions of ECHR to contend with.
As a former senior officer in the UK where this kind of issue is not uncommon, the CoP must be fully aware that this is likely to end up in litigation that he cannot win and also that it could prove very expensive.
Dumb move, RCIPS is supposed to uphold the law (even if they don't like it) not ignore it.
Ok Sir, my friend, a member of the Rastafarian religion which uses ganja as part of their sacrament would like to use it as they wish, so the CoP should grant him his request?
In the UK R v Taylor (2002) established that was not the case but in 2008 the Italian Supreme Court ruled that Rastas could possess and use ganja on the basis that it formed part of their religion.
Who knows what the outcome might be in Cayman? Anyway even without the Commissioner's permission I seriously doubt you would be the only cop smoking the stuff or that anyone would do anything about it.
http://centos6-httpd22-php56-mysql55.installer.magneticone.com/o_belozerov/31115drupal622/crime/2011/08/22/full-scale-police-op-nets-teen-ganja-smokers
Somehow I think I can guess what the outcome would be in Cayman!
RCIP was upholding the law. She was dismissed because she did not turn up for work whenever she was scheduled to work on Friday nights or Saturday mornings and during the hearing she specifically told them that she was going to continue not showing up for work anytime she was scheduled to work those times which means the employee was showing blatant disregard for her employer and the contract she made with them!
If the employer submits to this kind of behaviour, every month and employee will have found something in the ECHR that means their contract "violates" their rights but from my viewpoint, even if the ECHR stipulates one thing BUT my employer and I agree on something that goes against that via a contract, who is the EHCR to dispute it? I made the agreement which is what Ms. Solomon did, she agreed to a contract 12 years ago and now she wants to change the terms of that contract, the RCIP have simply told her we cannot change the terms of your contract due to XYZ. What about the rights of all the other police officers who may or may not have religious affiliations?
That was a no brainer if you ask me – nice one Baines, good decision – can't believe she thought she'd get away with it.
100 % behind this decision, a commanding officer is not an imaginary body. He needs to be listened to and obeyed.
Secular law has nothing to do with personal belief, religion is something that should be practice in private and should never conflict with the application of the law.
On an Island which professed itself christian based, using the sabbath as an excuse to avoid or skip shift is intolerable. Just look around on Sunday and see how many supposedly good christian respect the sabbath. Most construction sites are beehives of activities, while you can’t buy a loaf of bread at a supermarket.
The next thing will be if you practice Islam, don’t work on Friday, while if you are practicing Judaism you don’t work on Saturday. And what ever other spoof that may come.
Never did I think I would agree with anything the Commissioner says or does, but this one I have to agree. Unfortunately when she took the job she signed a contract which didn't state she needed Saturday's off. Just like people whose religion is observed on Sundays. Does this mean that all the people who observe Sunday should have that day off. If she had agreed with the Police before she took the position as a police officer that she needed Saturdays off due to religious purposes and then they changed their minds after the fact, no that would be wrong, but she took the job knowing she would not be getting Saturdays off. I don't think she will win on this case. A contract is a contract!!!
Never thought I would say this – spot on, Baines!
I totally agree with Commissioner Baines on this one. We need protection at all times especially in these times. What would happen if this was approved for Ms. Solomon and then the entire RCIP department became 7 day adventist.
Commissioner Baines should also be barking out "Earthly Commands" which should be strictly complied with and enforced, in regards to "certain officers" who stongly believe that they should not be working night duties and in particular after 4:00pm. You will see these same officers by night "all jolly and around and about" getting plastered and in particular, for "Happy Hour" at the local pubs on Friday evening's.
Isn't this not a FACT that also needs to be addressed immediately by Commissioner Baines, same as his actions against PS Solomon belief's; that she should not work certain times of the night or day based on her religious belief's ??
I worship Satan on Thursdays and don't get the day off ;-(
I was wondering who’s been buying up the blood of newt. I can never find any at the store anymore.
I agree with the decision. Otherwise, I would make up my own religion where I am unable to work from sundown on Sunday to sundown on Friday. Or how about I make my religion deem that I must get paid on days that I am off… Or how about my religion saying my dog needs a paid vacation and therefore I should be entitled to extra annual leave… where do we draw the line as to what is acceptable and what is asinine, and where would we draw the line as to which religions to allow to surpass the work contract bound by the law?
I myself am not religious, but I do have Seventh Day Adventist friends who would not put their boss in such a shameful situation as to assume it their right not to work on a particular day because of their faith. From what I understand (though I am certainly no expert), the Seventh Day Adventist Church does accept that those working shift jobs may "adjust" their Sabbath so that it coincides with their day off, granting them access to work full time and also simultaneously comply with their faith. This then allows them to still fully follow their religion without disgracefully and lazily using their religion, or any other sacred religion to that matter, as an excuse to get Saturdays off.
I am a Seventh Day Adventist. One cannot adjust the sabbath by any means. However, one can choose how to keep the sabbath even when one has to "work". Shift work such a health, fire and police for example goes without saying that someone has to do it and doing your job does not make one less a Christian. Rather what one does on that day. Example, if I can find the time to take a break and worship a little, meditate a little, help out a little, this is fine. Just my understanding.
What about the old rule:
“Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.” – 1 Corinthians 14
What about it?
Don't start on the sabbath thing, trying to say it's done a way with. I'm not convinced it is. Jesus himself said that neither a dot nor tittle of the law shall be done away with until heaven and earth pass. Last I checked-still here! He said He didn't come to destroy it but to fullfill it…in other words -show us the way. I truly beleive that keeping Shabbat as Christ kept Shabbat is the way. Bearing in mind that healing, eating was not forbidden. Jews like my ancestors kept that to the "t", no turning on lights, no driving cars, no cooking food. To some degree we do the same. My Grandma converted to Chrsitian (SDA) and kept shabbat like Jesus showed us. If we are hungry-eat. If one needs help-help! It's better to do good than nothing! Not just on sabbath either though, but since that'sthe topic and the only day mentioned in the Talmud and Holy bible as the day of rest, who can change it?
It's never been changed.
Shaloma and ahava,
Kosher Nostra
The Lord of the Sabbath can change it. He is our rest.
You mean the same Lord who said He's the same today and always-never changes? You mean He changes times and dates and confuses us? Or are you saying that He made a mistake when He gave the law and since we can't manage it, He made another way? That sounds you you've mistaken God for someone else.
What part of "new covenant" do you not understand? Try reading the New Testament. It is all explained in there.
I LOVE it!
Instead of a wedding ring, Christian men should give their new brides a ball gag, a collar, and a leash…maybe throw in a riding crop for some added submissive spice!
Ok, what if they do not have a husband? What then? Remain silent and clueless?
That makes TOTAL sense!
Interesting. So you are telling me that the SDA'a merely "adjust" how to keep the Sabbath? In other words we can tailor the meaning of the commandment to our liking?
Does not the Forth Commandment say "But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work"? Seems pretty clear to me.
Regarding your "understanding": What part of "not do any work" do you have a problem understanding? "Not do" is absolutely prohibitive; "any" is all inclusive; "work" usually means gainful occupation, but can have other connotations relating to expenditure of effort. OK, sure, I suppose God will agree that you can choose how to keep the Sabbath…as long as you "keep it holy" and "not do any work".
Please explain your opinion because I seem to be having problems locating the fine print in Exodus 20:8 that exempts police or other shift workers (or those who on the Sabbath opt to "worship a little, meditate a little, help out a little") from the absolutely prohibitive, all-inclusive command contained therein.
If we can cut some slack on the Forth Commandment, we can "adjust" 'em all to suit our proclivities. (You think maybe Big Mac is on to this?)
While "doing your job does not make one less a Christian", the Bible is clear on the matter: if you do that job during the Sabbath, you do so in absolute contravention of the Fourth Commandment. (Do bear in mind that God can be even more vindictive than Big Mac whenever someone ignores one of his commands.)
The funniest thing that I find here is how we managed to keep 9 of the 10 commandments alive and well. But the Shabbat was done away with. I beleive what one SDA mentioned is that Jesus Himself gave the example on how to keep shabbat. Keep it not by serving the day, but by recognizing the day. No mondane or trivial work done- unecessary work. However Jesus, seeing that they need help/healing, did so. Seeing that he was hungry, ate. I truly believe that sometimes people, young probably in the understanding, had the broad idea (as does just Commentin).
But this one's for you Just Commentin- since shabbat is done away with, why don't you lend me your wife, or have me steal from you-surely you'd want me put to death. NAH TRUE?
The law is the law. How it's kept is between you and God-and either way, good or bad we have to answer one day. Remember the law was not designed to destroy us, but to guide us. You on the other should have been alive back then. Just kiddin'!
LOL!
The ethical requirements of the moral law are not abolished but have in fact been interpreted in a deeper way by Christianity. The old covenant dealt with external behaviour while the new covenant deals with the heart issues that underlie the external behaviour. A Christian must not simply refrain from committing the physical act of adultery but not look at a woman with lust in his heart. To entertain hatred in your heart is to commit the sin of murder. In short, enabled by the Holy Spirit, the Christian must love God with all of his heart (not just one day a week) and love his neighbour as himself. The Sabbath commandment was a "sign" of the old covenant (Ex. 31:16-17; Neh. 9:14, Eze 20:12) which is now abolished (Heb 8:13) and therefore simply pointed to the greater reality in the new covenant which is Jesus Christ who is our rest from the works of the law (Heb. 4). Of course all of the commandments were intended for our benefit as well. It is beneficial to our physical and spiritual health to havea day of rest once a week. Likewise we are no longer commanded not to eat pork but, despite what your taste buds say, it is a good thing not to eat it.
The first mistake you make is thinking that the Law means the 10 commandments. It means all 613 commandments in the OT. Since you are still under the Law I assume that you are still performing animal sacrifices and stoning people to death for adultery etc.
OK…Kosher! Let's make a deal!
Put you to death? Heck no! Nah true. I would have a much more creative deal for ya:
I lend you my wife, or maybe even one of my girlfriends (or, for a real party all of 'em at the same time) if you stone some brat next time one gets rebellous around you. I mean the Law is the Law, no?
My point is this: if observation of the Sabbath is still a valid expectation of man by Jehovah, as per Commandment 4.0.0, then "no work" on the Sabaoth means just that "no work" – no expenditure of effort for personal gain on the Shabatt. This is not a "broad idea" it is pretty specific, and perfectly well understood as such by the Jews of the day. If you want my "broad idea" it is this: if you "borrow" one (or more) of my broads – just to be on the safe side and not break too many Commandments all at once – try not to do it on the Sabat as things can get pretty strenuous with them. (But I suppose you can still stone a rebellous brat on the Shabbatth and be ok.)
"The funniest thing that I find here is how we managed to keep 9 of the 10 commandments alive and well. But the Shabbat was done away with." Nope again: the various mainstream denominations collectively extended it to include any time between sunset on Friday evening to 12:00AM on Monday morning.
Gee…people can't even agree on how to spell the word, when it is to be observed, or how it should be observed. This is absurd!
I say we are getting our knickers in a knot for no good reason. Let's simplify things and let's just go back to the whole reason the day was designed in the first place: pass me a beer and some chips and turn on the game!
PS: If I was alive back then I would try to be hangin' out at the temple of Aphrodite around the time my neighbours well-tanned wife is doing her mandatory temple hottie stint in honour of the Goddess. Woo hoooo! Pary time! (Hopefully this would not be on the Shhabbaathh.)
Should not cause any controversy, fully justified decision by Baines. Maybe the only one he got right so far?
I could have thumbed you up had you managed to restrict your comment to the first sentence.
That's ok, I thumbed-up-edded him because of the last sentence!
Secular law must take precedence over religious law.
Otherwise, many criminals would be able to hide behind a bogus religiion that justifies anti-social behaviour.
Remember Jim Jones, Jimmy Swaggart and a bunch of other crooks getting rich by shouting the lord?
Good work. I hate how most people fall over themselves to accommodate others' obscure religious requirements. If you are going to adopt a religion and adhere to arbitrary rules you have to expect there will be challenges and you will be forced to make sacrifices along the way. That's the whole point. It's right that you should bear the cost of the choices, not your employer or colleagues.
When one door is closed another will open,God provides for his own.
Meaningless drivel. Put another way, “xxit happens”.