“Justifiable discrimination”

| 10/02/2009

It’s sad to see Cayman’s church-leaders so fixated on homosexuals, and so certain that they (the leaders) speak in the name of the god of the universe. In truth, they speak only for their own personal god, a false god with mean prejudices.

Look, we don’t live in a theocracy, yet. It’s none of the churches’ business what sexual shenanigans anybody gets up to in their private lives as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. The root cause of the anti-homosexual agitators is simple personal distaste. And personal distaste is not of itself a good reason for making anything illegal.

There is something pathetic about people who pore over ancient history books seeking support for their prejudices. Don’t they have anything better to do? After all, the religious doctrines of three or four thousand years ago are not always justifiable today in the civilized world. All ancient holy books (including the Old Testament) report the ancient gods’ approval of slavery, rape, racism, sexism and mass slaughter. But times and customs have changed; those practices are no longer the virtues they once were.

Ancient texts also report the old gods’ disapproval of other practices, and time has changed the civilized world’s attitudes towards them, too. Moses reported a long list of practices that his tribe’s god abominated. The list of abominations included sacrificing blemished sheep, some intimate acts between men (though not all), shaving men’s faces, and revering statues.

Christianity inherited both Moses’ god and all his prohibitions. None of those prohibitions carry much weight in the Western World today – except sometimes among fundamentalists whose beliefs owe more to the tribal values of the ancient Israelites than to any later enlightenment. One same-sex marriage is more deplored by our anti-homosexual lobby than all the corruption, exploitation and cruelty in Cayman.

At the moment, our whole constitutional Bill of Rights is being held hostage by the Lobby. The Lobby rejects civilized standards of tolerance, and wants discrimination to be allowed as long as it’s justifiable.
Well, two generations ago discrimination against blacks was justifiable in the United States, southern Africa, and half the nations of Europe. The ruling classes decreed that it was not natural for blacks and whites to eat together, sleep together or sit next to one another on the buses.

The Governments of those places despised blacks, gays, liberals and outside agitators. Today the Governments have changed; but many of their people haven’t changed their prejudices – and have even added some to the list. Think: Moslems. It’s a shame to see Cayman in such company, and so many of Cayman’s churches drawing their inspiration from such models.

Seventy years ago, many of Cayman’s Christians felt the same way about men and women of colour as some of their descendants feel about same-sex couples. A hundred years before that, slavery was an accepted feature of society. Just imagine if earlier Caymanians had been as stubborn in their defence of the colour-bar as some of their descendants are of the discrimination against homosexuals.

Arguably, anti-gay sentiments are a subconscious substitute for racism. As one prejudice becomes too unpopular, another is slipped into its place. Prejudice is as prejudice does. At least with gays you don’t have to worry so much about your daughter marrying one.
At a Commonwealth human-rights conference in Gibraltar in 2004, women judges from West Africa told us of their problem persuading some men in their jurisdiction that wife-beating and what in my youth was called “queer-bashing” could not be justified by reference to ancient tribal traditions. In Cayman, our people have (mostly) come to accept that wife-beating is an uncivilized tradition that can safely be abandoned. Queer-bashing, however, is apparently still acceptable among many of our church-goers, and many of our politicians too. A US historian once wrote, “Politics, as a practice, has always been the systematic organization of hatreds.”

Discrimination is catching, that’s the poison of it. If the doctrine of justifiable discrimination were to become entrenched, who might its next victims be? According to our present Government it is now justifiable to cancel the Legal Aid that allows poor people to be defended against the courtroom wiles and tricks of professional prosecution lawyers. They will be denied the full protection of the law, in defiance of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

This discrimination against the poor of Cayman is a very risky enterprise because it confirms Cayman’s steady retreat from “the rule of law”. That is bound to affect our image among offshore professionals. Their overseas clients are rich people who don’t need Legal Aid; but how much confidence can those clients feel about doing business in a jurisdiction that is gradually distancing itself from the rule of law? And the local professionals themselves: what does it do for their personal reputations when they accept this situation without protest? How much time before their silence is taken as collaboration?

Britain is obliged by several international treaties to ensure that its colonies apply the protection of the law to all, without discrimination. Most of the thirty Articles of the Universal Declaration specifically forbid discrimination against minority groups, either explicitly or implicitly.

The British Government exempts Cayman from all of them. Our anti-homosexual lobby, like the anti-immigrant lobby and the anti-Legal-Aid lobby, all draw support and inspiration from that exemption. Thank you, Britain. Good job.
 

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

Category: Viewpoint

Comments (42)

Trackback URL | Comments RSS Feed

  1. Anonymous says:

    Reply to Some Thoughts

    good god, if Christianity along with other world religions taught just half as much tolerance and understanding as you talk of the world would be an infinitely better place. Your letter was the most intelligent and thoughtful thing i have read in a very long time, i can only hope you are a young Caymanian planning on running for office.

    CNS: We were also impressed with this comment and have posted it as a Viewpoint

     

     

     

  2. anonymous says:

     Question for Pastor Love

     

    I reread your post and still don’t feel confident that I understand what you are trying to say. 

    It seems you are saying that your god is against integration and interracial marriage. Is that what you mean to say? I don’t want to misinterpret you, so I’m just asking for clarification. 

    Are you really saying that your god put the oceans where he did in order to keep black people and white people apart? 

    If so, are ships and planes the devil’s tools? 

    Did god make the English Channel to keep the English and French apart? Why didn’t he put an ocean between Canada and the US. That would have been nice.

    Be honest, Pastor Love, if she was agreeable, there was no ocean between the two of you, and if nobody was looking, would you kiss Halle Berry?

    Come on, be honest. 

  3. Some thoughts... says:

    OPINIONS AND FACTS

    This is an interesting debate… but there is a lot of arguing here!
     
    Arguing usually arises when someone states their opinion as if it were a fact.
     
    When I state something which is my opinion, I will try to say “I think…”
     
    Personally, I have never seen God, and I see no evidence that he exists – so my opinion is that God probably does not exist. During the course of my life, however, I have been wrong about many things, even some very simple things, so I have no reason to believe that my option on this matter is especially valid or important.
     
    My good friend sees God “in everything” – so she very strongly believes that God exists. I would say she was an intelligent person… so maybe she is right about this too.
     
    One thing is for certain, arguing opinions makes for great debates, but it never changes a fact.
     
    God does or does not exist, whatever we may think, and whether we like it or not.
     
    CONCEPTS AND CATEGORIES
     
    Communicating with each other can be difficult sometimes. Our minds and feelings are complicated things.
     
    Few of us would claim to be able to say “exactly” how we feel about something, let along communicate that feeling effectively to another human being.
     
    To help us, humans generally categorize things to help structure language and facilitate communication. We refer to things as “good or evil”, “right or wrong”. However, these things are really just concepts and categories. They facilitate communication – they do not actually exist in the real world. There is no “right or wrong” in the world… there are simply lots of “things” in the world, and if we do not approve of these things we tend say they are “wrong”, and if we do approve of them we say they are “right”. This helps other people know our opinion regards these things.
     
    Another way to categories things is on a scale. Rather than imagining the two options of “right” and “wrong”, we can think of a sliding scale, where something is “perfect” at one end, a “grey zone” in the middle, and “evil” at the other end.
     
    I think that, for any given fact in the world, it is unlikely that any two people would placeit at exactly the samepoint on that scale, however, I would say that most of us are happy to make a judgment on where the “right” place on that scale should be.
     
    This is tendency in people is why we have things like war, debates, human rights and inequality.
     
     
    RAPISTS AND ABUSED CHILDREN
     
    There has been some interesting comparisons below; comparing the seriousness of homosexuality to pedophilia / rape etc. so I would like to comment on this… (though I don’t think it is very relevant to the news article).
     
     “I feel sorry for rapists. Sometimes abused children should be punished.”
     
    I think most people reading the above quote would have to read it twice, and then assume there was some awful typo here. I think few people would be able to reserve judgment on a person who made such a statement. However, this is my own opinion.
     
    Let me see if I can win you over to sharing my opinion with an argument which is only based on facts from my own life?
     
    During my life so far, I have discovered that making a cake is generally easier if I have all the ingredients. Making a judgment, however, is different. Sometimes, the more information I have, the more difficult it becomes to make a judgment. Sometimes, it is easiest to make a judgment when I have no experience and no information. It is easy to judge from a position of ignorance.
     
    What if I told you that the rapist who I feel sorry for brutally raped a young lady, repeatedly?
     
    (I doubt many people will share my opinion based on this information).
     
    He was caught, and the news devastated his family and friends, and sent shock-waves through a quiet community.
     
    (I think most of us would agree that, though we feel sorry for the innocent victim and family members, it was probably best that he was caught, and he should be punished… I think probably people would vary widely in what they would think a suitable punishment for the rapist would be…).
     
    The rapist was a young boy… still a school. He had been brutally abused by his father, since he was an infant.
     
    Maybe now you can understand my opinion. Maybe even share it?
     
    Did you alter your initial judgment, once you understood the facts of the individual case?
     
    How “bad”, exactly, is this person? Should he be treated as an individual or simply categorized as “evil” and “rapist”?
     
    What do you do when the abuser and the abused are the same person?
     
    How “bad” is someone who inherits a devastating legacy?
     
    Sadly, this case is not unusual. I understand that a very significant proportion of abusers were once abused.
     
    One thing is for certain, arguing opinions makes for great debates, but it never changes a fact.
     
     
    KILLERS
     
    When I think about it, I know quite a lot of killers and victims.
     
    I know a murderer who is incarcerated and dedicating himself to stopping youths from making the mistakes he made.
     
    I have a friend whose father lead a double life, with a second wife… then, when his sister discovered the truth, his father murdered his sister.
     
    Now I think about it, I know several people involved in fatal car accidents… fatal to others, not to themselves
     
    Maybe you think I am a policeman, or I work for a social group, or I am a prison visitor or voluteer? I am not. There is no aspect of my personal or professional life that is relevant here, what-so-ever… so I guess it must just mean that, if I stop and think about it, there is a lot of pain in the world.
     
     
    HOMOSEXUALS
     
    I think that, rather like rapists and abused children, killers and victims, old people and young people, black people and white people, people who are good at baking cakes and people who always seem to burn the edges and leave the middle bit runny, “homosexuals” and “heterosexuals” are just two more ways of categorizing people.
     
    Personally, I am a heterosexual… but I would like to hope that these is something more to me as a human being than having sex with women.
     
    I think that, if someone thinks that the “heterosexual” category defines me as a human being, that that would tell me more about that individual than it would tell me about myself.
     
    LIFE
     
    Someone below has described life as “ a vale of tears”.
     
    Rapists and abused children, killers and victims, homosexuals and heterosexuals have all played a part in my life.
     
    This is a fact.
     
    I think that for some of these people, life is probably tougher than I could ever imagine.
     
    Non-the-less, I love my life, and these people have all contributed to that life in some way.
     
    I intend to make the most of my life, and do my best not to judge anyone based on a category.
     
    The more people I can make room for in my life, the fuller and richer my life will be.
     

     

     

     

  4. Anonymous says:

    In case god calls me, does anyone know if he uses C&W or Digicel?  And if I have to call back, is that considered Internation Roaming?

  5. Anonymous says:

    Actually I was referring to the partnership of man and women, leading to original sin, after all if Adam did not trust Eve (as you trust your wife), he would not have eaten from the Tree of Knowledge as she told him too against God’s wishes

    No confusing matters with wife bashing, Genesis 3.16 will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."

    So if you can use the bible to "justifiably discrimate against homosexuals, then it is a small step to use it to justify the punishment of your wife if she doesn’t obey you.

    As for spread of disease which is inherent in the homosexual lifestyle., Actually the most common STD is Chlamydia, where in the US alone 50% of women under 30  have evidence that they have had chlamydia at some time during their live, so it seems a hetrosexual lifestyle is also inherently disease ridden

    • Anonymous says:

      I am glad we are now agreed that the sin had nothing to do with marriage per se. It also had nothing to do with man/woman partnership per se. The "trust" that you attribute to Adam could have existed in any kind of relationship including friendship, parent-child, homosexual etc. However, even the trust that you read into the passage is incorrect. The Bible says Adam was not deceived (1 Tim. 2:14).

      You are clearly attempting to justify rebellion by twisting scripture and reading into it whatever you wish to find and ignoring whatever clearly does not fit. Rather than justifying domestic violence, scripture clearly says that the husband must love his wife as he loves his own body and sacrifice himself for her (Eph. 5:25). It says the woman must respect and submit to (not obey) her husband. It does not say the husband must enforce submission any more than the wife can enforce love.

      As for the Chlamydia angle, this is obviously not inherent in a heterosexual lifestyle but comes from a sexual immorality, in particular a promiscuous lifestyle. You have succeeded only in showing that If we followed the biblical model these things would not happen. 

       

      • Anonymous says:

        One final point. What we should take away from the Genesis story is that whenever we elevate any human relationship or desire for a human relationship above our relationship with God and obedience to Him, trouble will follow. This is true whatever that human relationship or desire for human relationship should be – heterosexual, homosexual etc. 

        Make that two final points. If you approach scripture in an effort to debunk it or to find texts to prove what you already believe then you willl find what you want to find but it will not necessarily be the truth. Read it prayerfully without prejudices asking God to guide you to its true meaning. You will be surprised by the wonderful peace and clarity that brings.   By the way, Pastor Love, you should heed that advice as well.      

        • Gautama Buddha says:

          I’m glad you said ‘Story’.  JK Rowling couldn’t do a better job.  Too bad the writers of the biblical day weren’t cashing in.  Or is it because they were always ‘high as a kite’? Damn, these stories are  good. 

      • Ebanks the Plumber says:

        "You are clearly attempting to justify rebellion by twisting scripture and reading into it whatever you wish to find and ignoring whatever clearly does not fit."

        Is this not what our illustrious CMA is doing?  We don’t like stoning to death so we’ll ignore that, but let’s keep the bit about sexual discrimination.  And my wife really doesn’t fancy my brother so she’s hoping that he goes before I do.

        • Anonymous says:

          No, Ebanks the Plumber the CMA is not doing that. The CMA is also not relying merely upon the Old Testament for its views (as you imply) but on the witness of the entire Bible. However, it is what many in the gay lobby do when they seek to pretend that scripture, both Old and New Testament, does not clearly condemn the practise of homosexuality. However, like Christ who did not permit the woman caught in adultery to be stoned, the CMA is saying "go thy way and sin no more". 

          Tell me do you also believe we are "discriminating" against paedophiles when they are punished for their crimes? This whole idea idea of ‘discrimination’ has caused people to completely lose their moral compass.    

          Whether you believe the Bible is the word of God is dependant upon revelation and faith. It is not understood by the carnal mind. It is foolishness to those who are wise in their own eyes but are perishing.    

          • Anonymous says:

            "Whether you believe the Bible is the word of God is dependant upon revelation and faith." 

             

            At last, a religious character who is not so misinformed as to claim that the Bible is "fact".  

            • Anonymous says:

              I think you may have misunderstood my point. The truth of the Bible does not depend upon whether you believe it. However, your realization of its truth is dependant upon revelation and faith and not by a process of reasoning. It is foolishness to the natural mind.  

      • Gautama Buddha says:

        So you’re saying that pure Christians don’t suffer from desease?  And what do you tell a woman that gets an STD from her husband to whom she is faithful?  And what do you tell a man that gets HIV from his wife to whom he is faithful?  That they deserve it and perhaps should go to church more?  What recommendations do you have for dying Christians?  Follow the Bible and your days shall be long?  And to whom do you consider is the keeper of a promiscuous lifestyle; homosexuals or just black people? If you were to get your facts straight, you’d see that everyone suffers from STDs and HIV.  

        • Anonymous says:

          Gautama Buddha,

          You are seriously confused. I was assuming that you understood the rudiments of the Christian faith. We suffer from diseases because we are sinful and live in a fallen world permeated by sin. With sin entered death. If you were not so hell-bent on proving Christianity and the Bible false you just might see the Truth and theTruth would set you free. It is notmerely about going to church more; it is about having a living relationship with God.  Dying Christians have nothing to worry about. They are leaving a vale of tears to enter a joyous eternity. O death where is thy sting? O grave where is thy victory?!  Would you be able to say the same, or in the those last moments would you shiver at the thought  of "what if I was wrong and there is a God and I have done nothing but despise and reject Him?".       

          • Anonymous says:

            OMG, so YOU and your fellow faithful brothers LIVE in a world permeated by sin!  LOL 

            Well, why don’t you find another world to live on, or Iheard the Amish have lots of land.  Maybe you can all can live with them and do their daughters.  I heard they’re virgins and so young.  You all can be sinful together and then maybe that Christian sin won’t afford you any desease.  It’s just the non-christian sin that does. 

            FYI, we are already in hell, if you’re bent sending me there because my beliefs are different from yours.  Are you going to send other language speakers there too because they don’t speak your language or pray to your white God in English? 

            And I wish you a first-class ticket to heaven Mr. Faithful.  I hope the blankets are warm and the tea is hot. 

          • Anonymous says:

            And by the way, God called Hell and left a message.  It said that he doesn’t see your name in the book of life and that Hell should make a place for you. Too bad.  I guess your Bible had some pages missing or wasn’t made in a white man’s shop.  Better luck next time. 

            • Anonymous says:

              When you have something coherent to say I will respond.

              What’s with you and the "white" this and the "white" that? Who told you I am white? 

               

  6. mdu says:

    I thought Gordon Barlow spewed out despise etc..but Pastor Ken takes the cake!His issues run deeper than Gay..Color has a prominent place in this posting of his..WOW…

    I disagree with alot of what Gordon has said but I pray never to have to worship ANYDAY at a church where the pastor feels he can dictate my life..gay, straight, black or purple.This is downright HATEFUL..And if you hate you kill….

    God is a God of LOVE..Pastor LOVE as you call your self..do you think Jesus would have EVER written the things you wrote in thisforum…spewing hate and disgust for humans..regardless of their sexual orientation? Jesus would have sat amongst them and loved them regardless.

    How can yopu call yourself a man of God?

  7. Anonymous says:

    and a footnote on other forms of discriminiation that this supposedely civilised government is allowing in its constitution.  Legal aid will be granted to those who cannot afford it "if it is in the interests of justice".  Under the Human Rights Act in the UK and the European Convention on human rights where an individual’s liberty is at stake they are entitled to legal representation if they cannot afford it.  Currently – and no doubt under the exception this government has negotiated with london in order to derogate the human rights of its people still further (nb it is pretty much only the Caymanians who can’t afford to pay for legal representation) – people go to prison for many years – eg on drugs charges etc because the Chief Justice does not deem it in the interests of justice to grant legal aid.  A civilised society is measured by its system of criminal justice.  The system here is disgraceful.  All persons whose liberty is at stake should be entitled to full legal aid – including at the police station – where at present they can be detained for 12 days – yes 12 days! – without any legal representation – unless they can afford to pay – or the lawyer does it pro bono.  Incidentally the majority of criminal practioners on the island are expats or expats with status.  Caymanians just don’t want to do the job – too little money – too much hassle.

    Wake up Cayman – don’t discriminate against the poorest and most vulnerable members of your society.  Afford them full human rights. 

  8. Anonymous says:

    "Bible marriages, a Man and a Woman, is what God started and only that sort of a marriage will ever please God and be the right sort of a marriage."

    Mr Pastor Dr Love, I thought that God originally made just man, and then created woman after the seventh day and really that didn’t turn out to well either, with the marriage leading them to commit original sin.

    Will this lack of definition for "justifyable descrimation" also allow those who are adulterors to be descrimated against or even women if they don’t let their husbands rule over them, will wife beating be abled to be justified?

    Question, who many more adulterors do you know over gays in Caymanian soceity? as for "How can a lifestyle which if applied generally would lead to the extinction of the human race ever be a good thing?"

    Doesn’t the vow of chastity also cause extinction if everyone follows it?

    • Anonymous says:

      "I thought that God originally made just man, and then created woman after the seventh day and really that didn’t turn out to well either, with the marriage leading them to commit original sin".

      I think you need to read Genesis again. It says nothing about the marriage leading them to commit original sin which seems to be whole point of your comment. 

      Dude, I gather the "wife beating", "adulterer" questions are your attempt to confuse the issue.   

      "Doesn’t the vow of chastity also cause extinction if everyone follows it?".

      Yep. Don’t recommend for priests etc. It is not good for man to be alone. Also serves as a cover for paedophiles and homosexuals. However, what it does not cause is the spread of disease which is inherent in the homosexual lifestyle.

  9. Anonymous says:

    The homophobic ranting of Dr. Ken have nothing to do with true Christianity regardless of his professed faith. The love of the true Christ is missing from his words and his hurtful attacks are his own demons speaking.

    There are many hateful people who profess a great Christian faith but their words have the hollow ring like sounding brass or tinkling cymbal.

    What is there without love? Ask Dr. Ken if he is happy?

     

  10. Gautama Buddha says:

    Where is this God that you speak of?  No one has ever been able to produce hard evidence that he exists, and sure, no one has produced hard evidence that he doesn’t exist.  So in light of these two, why invoke the Bible as a premise for scaring the world into order and to giving 10% of our salaries to churches that preach hatred and corruption?  Christian beliefs make up for 33% of worldwide adherents to religion.  So, there you have it, Christians are in the minority just like blacks, gays, and your beliefs.  And as for the White Race, there are more Asians and therefore Buddhism is more dominant.  Shall we then say that’s two strikes against Christians and thus a strong reason to rid them like Hitler tried with the Jews?   So why compare, demonstate, and flex your muscles on the premise that one is better than they other?  Didn’t your Jesus come to wash you clean from this behaviour?  It seems like he’s needed again.  So the next time anyone thinks about putting another man down because he’s different, think about how different you and your beliefs are in a world of over 6 billion people and why your views and race should prevail.  PS, why does God keep changing his mind; new testament, old testament?  Flip flopper!

    • Anonymous says:

      Dear GAUTAMA BUDDHA,

      These are answers to your silly questions!

      Don’t question God, for He may reply: “If you’re so anxious for answers, come up here.”

      ‘Where is God’?, ‘Let me first ask you, Where is He not?’

      The Old Testament lays the foundation for the teachings and events found in the New Testament. The Bible is a progressive revelation. If you skip the first half of any good book and try to finish it, you will have a hard time understanding the characters, the plot, and the ending. In the same way, the New Testament is only completely understood when it is seen as a fulfillment of the events, characters, laws, sacrificial system, covenants, and promises of the Old Testament.

      • Gautama Buddha says:

        Hi, You.  How about we meet outside so that I can stone you to death and then maybe you can call your dragons from the sky to bite my butt. 

        If you go to court for drunk driving, the police have to produce hard evidence to this clai, and chardge.  Therefore, you’re in the court of public opinion and you have yet to produce any hard evidence that your God actually exist. 

        FYI, I read your stupid Bible from front to back for 16 years and couldn’t find anything that would convince me to yield.  However, what I did see was teachings of hatred and torture, how demons will torture me if I don’t sacrifice my son and how I should rob of my friends of their eyesight because they were bad.  In addition, you think the way your do and live in fear because you are condition to do so, you little puppet.  So, how dear you question others sexualality, beliefs, convictions and morals when you’re so against anyone questioning yours?  Oh, I forgot O’mighty one, you’re reading the Bible.  But don’t forget that you God did say that not everyone that knocks on his door will be welcomed in. 

        Ya betta get on your knees and serve your idol.  😀

         

         

  11. Sounder says:

    Gordon Barlow can be objectionable, but never in all my years of reading his articles has he come remotely close to being as objectionable as Pastor Love. Never was a name less appropriate. If this is Christianity in any form, I am very glad I am not a religious person.

  12. Anonymous says:

     "… Wicked Men are responsible for the race issue.  God made all the races, and put Oceans and miles between the color of man and their physial appearance.  But wicked men had to travel miles and cross oceans to bring the races together, and It was all against their will.  God put mankind where he wanted them and where they lived fit their situations and customs…"  – Pastor Ken Love

     

    I question who the Pastor thinks settled the Cayman Islands, and who brought God here as well.

    The Cayman Islands were settled by Sailors (men had to travel miles and cross oceans) 

    Caymanians are known for being very skilled sailors…So Pastor what are you saying about the people of Cayman?

    A Pastor should inspire and bring the flock together, not divide

    God also made Gays! Who would choose to be the object of so much hatred?

  13. A Human says:

    It is sad that christianity has created so much hate and wars over the years. I am certain that God wants us to love all people and creatures.

    Homophobes, stop hiding behind scripture as an excuse for your hate. God created us all and only God can judge us. So MAN shut up! Do you really think that there are degrees of sin….sliding scale with Gay at the top and lying at the bottom. Those without sin…..feel free to cast the first stone.

     

  14. Jack Meoph says:

    Hilarious! A Baptist preacher talking about racism!

    Is Pastor Love a Southern Baptist? He sounds like it.

    If so, does he really think he has any credibility on race? Does he really feel he can preach to Gordon Barlow about how God frowns on racism?

    Pastor Love (great name for a anti-gay person, by the way) must not know that the Southern Baptists were formed specifically because of their stubborn support of slavery back in the 19th century. They probably never taught him that at Bible learnin’ school.

    But he at least should have noticed that his Bible condones slavery. I’m sure they at least read the bible at whatever fancy institution he attended. So if he is against slavery doesn’t that mean he is agin the good book?

  15. Rarer that a blue iquana says:

    Gee "Pastor Dr Ken Love" boy am I glad I’m fair skinned and not a "black man", because I thought it was tough enough just being gay and caymanian.  By the way should my "black"  frends sit in the front or the back of my car?  Is it Ok if I own a "black" dog?  Just one last question and it’s two fold, I want to go to Jamaica for the weekend, is that considered crossing the ocean to visit people god has seperated me from because of physical difference, and should I go CAL or Air Jam, are either considered "white" airlines. Just asking – I always want to be politically correct.

     

  16. Anonymous says:

     

    Here here Mr Barlow – Christian hypocrisy at its best.

    You are quite right, the bible, both the new and old testament, are full of outdated bigoted and racist reviews just as you state and through time and the civilisation of our societies, it has been realised that these views are either incorrect or not appropriate in our day and age. So many of the old ways that were written about have gone by the way side, stoning, slavery, sexism and finally racism (in the most part) and it is just a matter of time before the men of cloth get off their hobbled high horse and accept homosexuality as a very real and particularly unfrightening part of life in the Cayman Islands.

    As has been said there are countless other issues where the Christian church could add great value to the community and this is where they should concentrate their efforts. Most other Christian countries of the world have moved on and do not tolarate bigotism in any of its ugly forms, is it not about time Cayman moved on?

     

  17. Jack Meoph says:

    We need a gay bar in Cayman so all these frustrated preachers and politicians can release some of their pent up energies in a more satisfying manner.

    Poor fellows, don’t they know the squeekiest wheels on the gay issue are always the ones most in need of man-grease?

    Geez, will someone order them a few male escorts so they will simmer down and go back to something less harmful, like crediting god for hurricanes and earthquakes.

    Ted Haggard called, He said to be careful chaps. It may not end well for you.

     

  18. Anonymous says:

    Thats what preachers do…they preach, how easy it is to tell others what to do and how they should believe what you do.

  19. Anonymous says:

    Gordon is right. We are not looking at the human factor and the fact that some of the problems with homosexuals are genes related.

    We should encourage people to come into the christian fold and not despise them for who they are and try to exclude them from society. As stated, God has put every man on this earrth for a purpose and we should therfore try to fit everyone in oour every day scheme of life. What if homosexuals were the majority in the world? Think about that!

     

    Anon.

  20. Anonymous says:

     

    Dear Pastor Dr Ken Love,
     
    If you believe in "the God who created every thing" why is there a problem with homosexuals? Didn’t your God create them too? I guess the religious angle is only convenient when it fits your side argument.
     

  21. Pastor Dr. Ken Love says:

    Mr. Barlow,

    I do not know you and I have no desire what so ever to know you.  

    I just want to say, that I  lived in the days when there were water fountains for the black and white, bath rooms for each,  the blacks rode in the back of the bus, the blacks went to their own schools and the KKK was strong. I lived among the black when they marched and the Resurrection Cities with Martin King, and due to his leading, I was in the north when the blacks burned part of the cities, and on the West ocast the night Mr. King was shot and watched the blacks destroy property, burn shops, and the police protected then from the shop owners. In no way did I despise the black man, just they ways men’s hearts have taken them away from God, BLACK OR WHITE.

    I have taught in their highschools, preached in some of the large black churches, North and South, I have won the souls of the black man to the Lord Jesus, but they went to their own churches and were happy. But I hasten to say, black and white men can worship God together, and they have done so in churches I have pastyored. Also, there was a day when they were happy marring with in their own race, and working hard to make a happy home and raise their families in the fear of God.  BUT Lost men had to profit off of their color and race, and at any price they would have their way with the black man.   Read your New Testament, stay out of the Old Testament if that so bothers your frail, limited Bible knowledge.    Race and same sex marriages, and the BIBLE, THE GOD HONORING MARRIAGE, should not be spoken of in the same sentence.  Throw out the Precious, Pure Word of God and you will see the discription of a world that one day you will be living in, and that is coming soon.  For only the Holy Spirit of God and God’s Word is holding the tide back concerning  the days ahead.   I love the souls of men, regardless of their color and I  have pastored now over 55 years and have loved the people the Lord has sent for me to minister to.  I will never marry any one except a Man and Woman, nor allow any one who claim to be in a marriage other than a man and woman, be a member of the church where I pastor.  It is not Color but Scripture that makes the difference.

    Wicked Men are responsible for the race issue.  God made all the races, and put Oceans and miles between the color of man and their physial appearance.  But wicked men had to travel miles and cross oceans to bring the races together, and It was all against their will.  God put mankind where he wanted them and where they lived fit their situations and customs.

    BUT the same sex marriage is an issue with God right in the middle of it. (It might help you sir to learn how to give some respect to the God who created every thing, plus allowed your mother to birth you, who by now ought  be ashamed you were ever born.)

    The Black and White issue was a sin issue, and came from the hearts of lost, and ungodly men. Bible marriages, a Man and a Woman, is what God started and only that sort of a marriage will ever please God and be the right sort of a marriage.

    I take my stand on the authority of the Blessed Inspired Word of God.  All other goundis sinking sand.

    Pastor Dr Ken Love

    .

     

    • Anonymous says:

      Dr. Ken Love,

      "Also, there was a day when they were happy marring with in their own race, and working hard to make a happy home and raise their families in the fear of God.  BUT Lost men had to profit off of their color and race, and at any price they would have their way with the black man".

      I hope you are not suggesting that interracial marriage is somehow forbidden for Christians. If so, that is simply your own ideology.  The only unequal yoking the NT speaks about is between believers and non-believers.  

       

       

    • Ebanks the Plumber says:

      I just love these cyclical arguments –

      Statement:  What’s in the bible is true. 

      Question: Why is it true?

      Answer: Because it says so in the bible.

      • Gautama Buddha says:

        Exactly, because the Bible says so.  Sounds like the IRS, "You owe taxes because we say so".  When actually there is no law that requires US citizens to pay income taxes.   So what do Christians and the IRS have in common?  They are bullies.  

  22. Anonymous says:

    There are some accurate points here. Unfortunately, history demonstrates that people are always willing, and sometimes eager, to cause suffering to others because they despise them or find some characteristic of theirs unworthy. This is what happened to the Jews, blacks, women, gays or lesbians or the others who have been victimised throughout history. Unfortunately, religious texts have been used to justify and uphold too much of this bigotry for too long. If we really do not want to "stone" people in this country, then let us treat them as we would want to be treated ourselves. I believe Jesus said that best. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That includes spending as much time worrying about poverty, domestic violence, child abuse etc as our religious leaders seek to spend worrying about what people do in private.

    • Anonymous says:

      "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That includes spending as much time worrying about poverty, domestic violence, child abuse etc as our religious leaders seek to spend worrying about what people do in private".

      Amen to that. I would not expect others to condone and bless it if I become involved in any immoral activity. You are right though that some people are hate the people as much as the sin which is wrong.  Also, homosexual ‘marriage’ is not simply a private issue. Contrary to what some apparently believe our pastors are not consumed with the homosexuality issue and do spend a lot of time with these other issues. These are all family counselling issues.  

  23. Anonymous says:

    God will hold you accountable for your blasphemy Mr. Barlow.

    Why is it that none of the major world religions endorse homosexual ‘marriage’? How can discrimination on the basis of one’s race (which has no moral content) be compared to society giving no blessing to homosexual relationships? How can a lifestyle which if applied generally would lead to the extinction of the human race ever be a good thing? Mr. Barlow, you denigrate those who fought against and abolished slavery when you make such false comparisons.  

    The stance of the CMA is deliberately being mischaracterized as "queer bashing". There is no hatred in the principles for which those men of God stand. Like Christ, they would never condone the stoning, metaphorical or literal, of homosexual persons, but would say, and are saying,  "go thy way and sin no more".  

    Mr. Barlow, it is your god that is false – one made in your own image based on your personal ideas of what is right. If you deem Moses’ God false  then clearly yours is the Golden Calf of rebellion against His laws.