Pension suspension rejected
(CNS): A significant part of the government’s original plan to cut around $89 million from the operating budget included a proposed suspension on pension payments for Civil Servants. However, the idea has been rejected outright by the Cayman Islands Civil Service Association, which pointed out in a letter to the deputy chief secretary the danger of destroying the entire fund through such a measure and placing in jeopardy the retirement of thousands of civil servants. Instead, CICSA has suggested a number of what it said were viable options that its president, James Watler, hopes will be considered by government as it puts together the budget for 2009/10.
Leader of Government Business McKeeva Bush said last week that the freeze on pensions had been rejected, but his government would be going forward to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office with alternative expenditure reductions and revenue raising measures to secure the UK approval for a loan which has already been negotiated to balance this year’s budget.
Watler said he hoped that some of the myriad suggestions submitted by the CICSA would be implemented and that the association’s rejection of the proposed pension suspension would not be seen as stubborn resistance. Watler said that since the call came that government needed to take drastic measures to reduce expenditure, the civil service has been seeking ways to cut public spending but the membership has also made a long list of suggestions to raise revenue.
Christen Suckoo, the CICSA vice president, also told CNS that between them the membership had come up with a raft of sensible measures that could, if implemented, raise some $160 million for government.
Following a meeting at the George Hicks campus, the CICSA began collating viable ideas from the rank and file to present to government, not just about spending cuts, but about raising revenue as well. In his letter to Franz Manderson on 28 August, Watler outlines two areas that his organisation sees as a potential source of immediate cash for government. Firstly, he notes the failure to collect fees owed and that government should take immediate action on uncollected and outstanding revenue. Secondly, Watler noted the low level of many government fees and suggested the time had come to put some of them up.
“There are many revenue items on the government books that are very low and have not been raised for decades. These should be examined to see which can be raised without significantly impacting the citizens of this country,” Watler wrote. He also noted there were many things that were duty free, which he said which could be examined to determine if they should stay that way.
The CICSA also noted the issue of dormant accounts and suggested that there is anything from $40-80 million sitting in dormant accounts in the Cayman Islands and said government should enact legislation to allow them access to those funds.
A direct alternative to the pension freeze by CICSA was the idea of the pension fund buying a government asset, which it would lease back to government in the short term and government would buy it back in the long term. This would inject a large amount of capital into government coffers.
Watler also noted that CICSA was in favour of introducing a money transfer tax on remittances leaving the Cayman Islands. “Much has been said about the amount of money leaving the country on a regular basis through remittances to other countries. The government can see a significant increase in its revenue if it will take the step of introducing a charge on those funds,” he wrote.
The president said that CIFSA members have come up with many other measures, including an increase in the duty on used car imports; establishing a public transit system and the re-examining of work permit fees. Although the CIFSA has presented a raft of cost cutting and revenue raising measures to government, the organisation said it does not support direct taxation or the introduction of a lottery.
Watler said he hoped that government would begin to utilise the knowledge and experience within the service to find the answers to the deficit problem. “The solutions to our problems are sitting in the minds of the lower ranking civil servants who work our systems every day and know their inefficiencies, but who are currently not being actively engaged in the process.”
Watler said the service was committed to doing all it could to help government and that members wanted to be involved in a holistic way to find positive long term solutions and not just band aids for the immediate problem.
Category: Headline News
As a PPM supporter for the past 5 years and more recently in the May elections, after watching their press conference today- I have come to the conclusion that they have no clue. I am no supporter of McKeeva- but I will say that when he sets his goals to get something done; it is accomplished. Now we might not like or agree with the way he went about getting it done BUT at the end of the day it was done. Suffice to say, the UDP did NOT beat the PPM. The PPM beat themselves (ourselves)!!!!
I say this to ask that blame not be laid at the feet of Civil Servants as over 75% of them are hard-workiing, ambitious and dedicated employees. I say blame this budget short fall on the narrow minded and short sighted last political leadership. Let the Civil Servants continue to get paid- but there are many (XXXXXX) that can be gotten ridden of so maybe thats a way to begin easing the financial hardships of the Government.
Caymanian participation…also holds the work permit. Don’t let the important issues be side-lined by digging up the old bone of ex-pats and chewing on it. The question to be asked… realistically… is how many ways does the country want it? No ex-pats? Or just some? Doing the work no one else wants to do? Taxed? But not allowed to vote? Stay for the certain period of time allowed by law? Then.. take your children out of school, say goodbye to friends, sell your possessions? Never be allowed to purchase a home? Or land? Work from year to year not knowing if your permit will be renewed?
Excellent post.
I am a Caymanian.
Great post, I too am Caymanian and if I moved to a country to work where I knew I could only stay for a maximum of 7 years and wouldn’t know when I would be told to leave I would send my money home too. Why would I invest my money in a country where I am guaranteed no future?
I am a rich expat accountant and i send my money back home. I send it back home because with the current work permit system I can’t guarantee I can stay in this country for more than 2 years and therefore I have a short term view about life on this island. So I don’t buy a flash car and pay the 30% duty but instead buy a $5,000 1996 Honda CRV. I don’t buy a $500,000 condo and pay 7% stamp duty and instead pay rent to a Canadian resident in Toronto. I don’t buy a TV and pay 20% duty. I instead pay for endless flights to Miami for golf , and Vegas for entertainment. I’ve been here for six years now and my caribbean experience is at an end. I estimate that I could have given the government close to $100,000 if it had given me longer work permits in an industry where clearly there are not enough Caymanians to fill the jobs in the industry.
Don’t worry…..you giving us more than $100,000……..if ya know what I mean!
I am a (relatively) rich expat lawyer, and I don’t send my money home. Since I have been here, I have bought a home, 3 cars, 2 boats, numerous tv’s and white goods (for what it’s worth – ie nothing) and am considering trading into another bigger home and keeping the original one. I do not spend endless weekends off island, I patronise local establishments and I work all hours God sends for my employer and my clients. I give money to charity, although as I chose to doso anonymously and independently without the need for self aggrandising fanfare or a journalist (sorry CNS), no one knows.
Ironically, none of this makes me any more valued by the people of this Island, or any more likely to obtain the Holy Grail of an extended work permit, security of employment, PR, promotion in my place of employment or any other benefit than the rich expat accountant who sends all my money home etc above. Consequently, my overall experience of life in Cayman is anxiety and fearfulness for my future, albeit in the sunshine.
I do not believe I am alone in the expat professional community. Damned if we do and damned if we don’t.
By your post you have demonstrated to the Caymanian people what an ungrateful expat you are.
People like you should be declared persona non-grata.
You are a rich expat accountant and didn’t buy a tv for 6 years?! You must be kidding, but if you are not Cayman is not the problem.
What is it that you propose exactly? As soon as set foot in these Islands you should be granted permanent rights and then you will not be a cheapskate and spend some money?!
You would be ongoing on endless flights to Miami and Vegas regardless. What is your point?
I am suspicious about this post! It has all the makings of categorization, and stereotyping to encourage commentary, as well as promote divide. However, someone may know of an individual (or individuals) that may very well live accordingly. Furthermore, what is the benefit of an individual outlining in so much detail their lifestyle to aggravate others with such an audacious, and arrogant overtone?
This could very well be just "fish bait".
-Islandboz
A wire transfer tax is likely to be illegal indirect discrimination on the basis of nationality and thus would be unconstitutional under the new Constitution and expose the UK (or more accurately the Cayman government) to a massive damages claim for breaching Human Rights obligations.
Funny, Bermuda has had human rights legislation since 1981 and most of its taxation expressly differentiates between Bermudians and non-Bermudians yet no one has challenged it in the courts as unlawful discrimination.
Caymanians remit funds abroad as well where they have relatives: Jamaica, Honduras etc. No discrimination.
First the Privy Council did recently make serious inroads into discrimination in Bermuda. Second it has only recently been confirmed that the ECHR and the Human Rights Act applies to the UK’s governance of Cayman. The clock is ticking on discrimination of residents – the starting point will be residents cannot be discriminated against when it comes to tax on the basis of nationality.
If you are referring to the Thompson v. the Bermuda Dental Board decision that has nothing whatever to do with taxation.
But it has everything to do with illegal discrimination on the grounds of nationality.
…which this is not. Is that your reasoning – any case on discrimination on the basis of nationality means that applying taxation of remittances is illegal? I hope you are not masquerading as a lawyer.
I do hope you are aware of the concept of indirect discrimination.
Well done Mr Walter and Cayman Islands Civil Service Association for your firm stand in this matter. Don’t be swayed by the culture of fear and unacceptable choices being offered. "Jobs cuts OR pensions cuts" equates to "starve now OR starve later". Some choice! You are right to guard against short-term quick fixes at the expense of long term stability. To the posters who don’t seem to know – there are many hard working Civil Servants (working on your behalf), people and services whom you might actually miss if we were gone, and many of us work for quite modest salaries. So, while sweeping cuts to the Civil Service might sound like a simple and attractive option, they are also inherently unfair.
Well Mr Watler, what do you think would be better, get a salary every month or for Government to pay into a pension fund that, (Lord forbid), you may not live to get?? The Civil Service needs to look at this proposal seriously and vote on it. I have many friends employed by Government and they would rather keep their jobs and receive their salary every month, instead of making a big deal of the pension suspension.
Many of our expat population send their money away due to our own Bureaucratic bungling. Most can not get a local Bank account because they are discriminated against in the most stupid way.
To get a local Bank account they must provide a Bank reference from their own country (In English). Then they must provide utility bills in their own names and all sorts of other unnecessary ignorance.
Take a young Cuban coming here to work on a Permit. Most likely that young Cuban has never had a Bank account due to the economic situation in Cuba. He or she would like to keep their money out of the hands of the Cuban Government but is unable to Bank it locally because of the local requirements.
For those who can provide the necessary requirements at the end of the day they are again stuck with the $10,000.00 withdrawal limit and has to go through all sorts of Bureaucratic ignorance to get their money.
The Rules and Regulations that apply to the expats are a great disincentive to them to Bank locally, so blaming them for sending their money home every friday afternoon is an unfair allegation.
While many of these requirements apply to Caymanians as well, the situation is different in that Caymanians can easily provide these requirements unlike a lot of expats. Many expats come here and rent from Caymanians who provide utilities included in the rent, These people dont get utility bills but are expected to provide them in order to deposit their money in our Banks.
In addition to a reference letter from a profesisonal who knew them for at least five years!!!! So an expat who came here by him/herself cannot open an account because they cannot provide a reference letter to the bank.
And the worse is, they need to line up for at least one hour just to do a transaction in a bank, unlike in western union that can process transaction in 5 minutes and are open til night.
What the Hell are you talking about Watler?
Following a meeting at the George Hicks campus, the CICSA began collating viable ideas from the rank and file to present to government, not just about spending cuts, but about raising revenue as well. In his letter to Franz Manderson on 28 August, Watler outlines two areas that his organisation sees as a potential source of immediate cash for government. Firstly, he notes the failure to collect fees owed and that government should take immediate action on uncollected and outstanding revenue. Secondly, Watler noted the low level of many government fees and suggested the time had come to put some of them up.
This is the biggest piece of hogwash I have ever heard. Watler is admitting that one of the resaons why we are in this mess is because the civil servants that he represents are not collecting fees due to Government? Watler…… tell the do nothing civil servants to get offtheir a**es and do th ejob thatthey are being paid to do ….. collect the taxes that are in the law. Who is this "Government" that you are talking to anyway? It is the members of YOUR UNION that needs to collect taxes ….. not some phantom.
And what is your solution??? Tell Government to put these taxes up higher on the people so that the members of your union can continue to sit around and not collect them once again?
The way for the Government to save money on this exersied in the long run is for you to stop obstructing the necessary changes that need to take place.
The civil service MUST be shrunk by eliminating the multiple department heads that do the same job for every portifilio seperately and to centralise these high paying accounting costs back into central government. And yes Mr. Watler….. it does mean fireing those high paying expat and local accountants that you and your union so rabidly defend like some kind of knights in shining armor. It does mean also getting rid of some of those high paying top jobs that are being filled with seat warmers. Replace them with ambitious young Caymanians who will actually work to collect some of the uncollected taxes that you lament about.
Your idea of taxing money going out of the country is one that I support. The country they are destined to go to sure taxes them when they arrive. My problem with the union you repesent suggesting this is twofold. One, the overpaid people in Government, by your own admission do not have the ambition to collect taxes that they are already being paid to collect. Two you should stick to suggestions that are real cost savings within your own organisation and leave suggestions that impact the private sector to the private sector. You know nothing of which you speak being a career civil servant. You are only parroting what the private sector has already put forward and should be enacted post haste with private sector input.
You sir should do your part and stick to meaningful suggestions that will result in real cost savings from the civil service.
WE ARE ALL IN THIS MESS TOGETHER.
I would suggest that civial servants contribute to their medial and pension plans like all the rest of us have to do. This would ease the Government up in having to fund the whole pension and medical funds. Great savings for the Government.
Very brilliant of you Mr. Watler.
Everything your association has recommended is meant to protect your jobs and pensions at the tax paying peoples expense. You show absolutely no interest in playing a part to solve the problem.
Mr. Bush needs to start cutting the civil service now starting with your job as it seems you are part of the problem rather than part of the cure.
That would be what we would expect – mindless vindictiveness.
I agree to suspend pensions is not a good idea. It is better to decide now on jobs that should be made redundant. Another way to reduce the recurrent expenditure is to reduce salary levels. There are just too many senior civil servants jobs created the Public Management and Finance Law. A civil servant’s job can not be compared to a similar position at a private company. A civil servant have a lot more benefits and job stability than a private citizen so the salaries should never be the same. Yet the Chief Financial Officers make $30,000 more a year than similar poitions with a large multi million dollar private company. Governement can not look to take funds held in dormant accounts without first sending notices to the beneficiaries of the estates of these people. This could result in depositors reluctant to leave funds in the Cayman Banks. It is a worrying trend. I myself have accounts that have been not been used for over 7 years. Does this mean I have no use for the money?
Its time to trim the fat; for those expat civil service employees who have contracts ending, its time to send you home and downsize or eliminate the positions. This is the least painful way to begin reigning in government spending. Tough choices have to be made and this one should be a no brainer!
A wire tranfer tax will eat into the pension contributions of expats who have paid the monies in here but will retire back home, including civil servants/ So what? Well it will probably encourage expats to contribute to funds offisland which will in turn harm investment in the Cayman Islands by those managing the funds.
Self-Servants Credo!…
– Start paying half of the medical and pension contribution made on your behalf, like everyone else and save us $30 million…
– Cut your pay by 10% – everybody else is tighteneing their belts, so why not you? – and save us another $35 million…
– Cut the Sef-Servants numbers by 15% and save us another $53 million…
All told, if you stopped acting like Self-Servants and started to become real Civil Servants, you could save us: $30 + $35 + $53 = $118 million and balance the budget in one operation…
So, how about getting real, Self-Servants?…
To the poster at 17:20.. You know it never ceases to amaze me how small-minded people can be. Which article did you read? The one in which the President of the Association repeated yet again the Civil Servants willingness to be a positive contributor to addressing our present financial situation or the one you were writing in your head? The one that said that the organization came up with $160 million worth of solutions or the one about the many ways that you are solving the problem?
We may not agree with all of the ideas put forward by the association, so be it. But the ideas are out there, they have put time and thought into doing their part, what exactly do you have a problem with? Finally my friend, did you read what their concerns are? They are thinking loooooooong-term, which is what the rest of us should be doing. They think that the freeze will destroy the entire fund, its in the first paragraph.
Yes we now have to look for alternatives… oh wait a minute… they did that already! See how it works? They were challenged, they stood their ground, the came up with viable alternatives. As much as some Government entities frustrate me with their level of service, I think the Association should be commended for their participation so far. They have done their part, what have you done?
There are two problems – too much spending and too little revenue. The biggest problem on the spending side is the over-expensive civil service. There has to be a reduction in the size and pay terms of the civil servants and the Association’s reported simply refused to address the most critical step that has to be taken to achieve this.
Then they threaten to jeopardise our banking system (dormant accounts) or shamelessly play the "tax the ex-pat" card (transfer tax). Their militant refusal to offer any concession shows that greed seems to have overtaken public service.
Cut their numbers, cut their pay, cut their perks. If they do not like it the Caymanian civil servants can easily find employment elsewhere.
After listening and reading for a few days about Cayman’s financial situation I have a few thoughts.
** Civil servants are correct. Suspending pensions is not a good option. That action is only a band aid. The money will have to come from some where on down the line.
** The CIG’s present system of tax, duties and fees will not work in a modern day world economy. Most CIG income increases with consumption and vibrant tourism and financial industries. Experience a world wide hiccup, down turn in tourism and trade or God forbid an ‘Ivan" and the CIG cannot maintain.
** A land tax will create solid steady income that can be predicted and monitored and allow for proper fiscal planning and budgeting. Eventually it may even allow for the reduction of other taxes and duties. IE..duty on food imports to assist all residents or lower duties fees for the tourism and financial services industries to make them more competitive.
** The Cayman Islands needs schools, health care, roads etc. But they cannot have all of the above with a huge bloated government.
** I have heard rough estimates that the government is 30-40% bloated. Looks like a 25% reduction in CIG size would be a good start.
** Immediate privitization for waste management, water, sewage, the prison, health care, tourism facilities like Boatswaine and Pedro’s, DOT and PWD would trim even more CIG costs.
Borrowing and increasing present taxation systems will no longer work. Steady income streams and reductions in the cost for CIG to run the country will solve the problem for our children
Lachlan MacTavish
Mr. Bush you and everyone on this island know that the Budget deficit is caused by Government spending more than it earns, much of which is Civil servants salaries.
Since the civil service dont want a temporary suspension of their pension benefits, you are left with no alternative but to start cutting the size of the civil service to suit the Budget.
The sooner you start the sooner we will see some normalcy returning to Government expenditure.
Do what you have to and start handing out the notices now.
There are many Government departments that serve no purpose other than to overload the Budget.
Get rid of them now.
Look
To cut civil servant jobs, means increase unemployment and crime. I’m sure you don’t want your house to be burglarized. We have enough crime as it is! Apparently you have never been put in the position of knowing what it feels like to not have money to feed your family and self; or, could it just be that you hate civil servants and envy them for the privileges that they have
Throw a stone in the pig pen. The one who squeals is the one who got hit.
Well done buddy, you have just hit the nail on the head – ‘envy them for the privileges that they have’!! and here in lies the problem. The government wouldn’t be in such a mess if its employees didn’t have such wonderful privileges that you talk of! Full pension and Medical for a job poorly and inefficiently done, give me a break. This is the real world not some socialist state.
You seem very knowledgeable. If you can identify which government departments "serve no purpose", we can begin "handing out the notices now".
Would you like my reply privately or on a public forum?
Oh… be brave, anonymous, and say what you think you have to say in a public forum.
Watler and his cronies should be disgusted at how greedy and selfish they have been. One year’s pension holiday would have little impact of these alleged public servants but a great benefit to the nation. Shame on them and their greed.
Taxes on money transfers is a very slippery slope. Do we impose this only on the Jamaicans, British, Canadians, Filipinos,Hondurans etc. sending their hard earned income home to their families?
Do we charge it to supermarkets,building supply stores, allimporters, American subsidiaries, offshore companies?
This will increase costs to consumers and detract from our financial center, and finish destroy our country.
Think about the implications.
YES JUST THE EXPATS
As usual, EXPATS TO THE RESCUE!!
Yeah… just EXPATS….. because they are the ones who do nothing in govt…. all those teachers and policemen etc etc do absolutely nothing. Actually its only the Locals who do work and are needed to keep the civil service functional. PLEASE!!! Another myopic post…….
America taxes everything, including the dead – and it seems they aren’t on a slippery slope – in fact they control the World.
Git’em UDP – taxes on money transfers.
My friend at Tue, 09/08/2009 – 18:22.
This is not America.
Havent you noticed?
And also for your information – America does not tax money transfers.
The Jamaican Government benefits from remittances by taxing them in Jamaica.
Why should they benefit and the Cayman Islands not.
The money is earned here isnt it.
This is a very difficult situation here. Alot of Foreign workers send 99% of their salaries home and continue to be a burden on Society here. Alot of rental owners can contest for this, they make up all kind of excuses not to pay rent or their utility bills in a timely manner. I don’t mean to step on anyone toes, but the truth is the truth. Go to anyone of the Esso stations on a Friday evening and you will see for yourself. They get paid by 4 o’clock and by 6 o’clock all the money have left the Country.
In some other countries they are not allow to send the money out. So, I do feel that Govt should tax these amount and bring in the well needed revenue. They make the money here, spend it here. Now, before you jump ahead of me, yes, they have their families to take care of and we don’ t have a problem with that but have a heart and don’t expect to live here free.
Tax All outgoing money transfers.
People
Try to understand: If expats are taxed everytime they send money home, that would only kill their incentive to want to work in Cayman, and do so effectively. It would be a disaster to our workforce. Jamaicas and Fillipinos make up by far, the most expats on the Island. To implement a money transfer tax, it would put a heavy financial burden on the low income expat workers. Expats do alot of the low-income jobs that non-Caymanians don’t want to do. If pressured these same expats can contribute to crime in the Cayman Islands. Connect the dots!
People, to tax expats and foreign eutrepernuers is not a good idea! Any kind of direct taxation is not good for this country!
I disagree. This would give them an incentive to keep the money here and stimulate our economy. Had they done that to begin with many of them would have been granted permanent residence.
There could always be a tax threshold of say $200.
Why would they want to keep there money here? Thay are not allowed to stay and don’t know if they will be here year on year.
Perhaps they should just work for free?
A lot of the foreign workers you see in Esso making money transfers probably aren’t making that much $ to begin. How can they possibly send much home. Surely 99% is a huge overstatement of the funds they could send home. They have to eat!!
To put it in perspective – somenone that makes over $100K is going to the bank to transfer money not Esso on a Friday evening. And how many people do you think make over $100K?
To answer the other problems you mentioned:
1. Immigration should not let someone in if they cannot afford it
2. Landlords should evict people for not paying
3. How can an expat be a burden? they don’t get free school, medical, housing, automobiles, insurance, and food stamps. So what’s the problem.
You are trying to evade the point. This would also affect the very high wage earners whether or not they go to Esso to make transfers. Many more expats than Caymanians in the financial services industry make over $100,000. The place is teeming with accountants, lawyers and managers.
As for burdens, slums are arising because people are choosing to live in sub-standard conditions because they send most their earnings back to their home countries.
There all sorts of potential burdens when people turn up at hospitals and cannot afford to pay and if you deny them treatment there are screams of inhumaneness and discrimination etc. etc. Look at the case with the pregnant Jamaican lady who had the babies on the plane.
The issue isn’t about Immigration. Immigration looks at your salary and determines whether it is sufficient to support you. They have no control over what you actually do with your salary.
Evicting a tenant is not as simple a matter as you believe. Go read the new landlord and tenant law.
If you make your money here and send it out of the country you pay a modest tax. Simple.
Evading the point?
Please show my any lawyers and accountants earning over 100 grand who are living in slums.
Please
why not the money transfer on the ground?!!
What if it is a caymanian sending money overseas? Beacuse I know a lot of them that do it.
Stage II
Now that the Civil Service has refused to co-operate, now the UDP should start cutting staff and salaries.
I suppose you are one of those who think that the private sector can run everything and effectively ‘Regulate’ itself. It takes checks and balances in everything and Government through the Civil Service has to have the overall control of the country – otherwise it would be anarchy!
It is a pity that we don’t have proper unions here to offset the power of the capitalists, whose only interest are themselves.
It is also the role of Government to look after those that cannot look after themselves, and have a voice in society, in case you did’nt know. Services are needed to do the above.
What is needed is a 5-10% Tax on foreignors earning over 100,000 per year.
Which was the set-up in the first place. You are right to call it "Stage II". Pension "holiday" was an idiotic idea in the first place and would do nothing to help reduce the deficit but would only increase the national debt.
It is not a matter of the civil service or civil servants refusing to co-operate it is about the civil servants being expected to get the country out of the mess. Why should only one sector of the country be expected to contribute to the governments problem. The Civil Service Association is trying to come up with ideas that will stimulate revenue for the country and not penalise one sector of the community with having to bail the country out of its problems. Why dont the private sector employees take pay cuts and contribute that portion of their pay to the government to help pay the country’s debt.
What you have just described is income tax……..
I think that is point. The Civil Service is objecting to selective income tax against Civil Servants.
Come on now, speak the truth!
The Civil Service has not "refused to co-operate". The Civil Service has made suggestions.
Realize the fact that to continue to not recognize the pension liability and fund it in this generation is irresponsible and you should be ashamed of yourself to criticize the Civil Service for their position to oppose pension suspension. The Civil Service is right, that to stop funding pensions in both the Civil Service and the private sector is detrimental for the future children in the Cayman Islands who will have to fund social service payments to future old people who have not saved for their retirement.
Anyway you cut it, slice it or dice it the Civil Servants will have a pension, the only consideration is pay now or leave your grandchildren to pay more. How could you ever be proud to tell them that you did not do what you should have done and that you pushed the pension debt onto little children? Did you not know that to steal from children is wrong?
This generation allowed successive governments and business people to make the mess that we have today, do something for your grandchildren – demand better sustainable governance.