Bar robbed at gun point
(CNS): Police have confirmed that George Town detectives are now investigating a possible armed robbery outside bar of the Brick House on Saturday around midnight. According to witneses a masked man armed with what looked like a gun demanded cash and escaped with the contents of the till as the bar was closing. Police conducted a search of the area and as yet no arrests have been made. The Brick House, in Grand Harbour, is owned by Harry Lalli, who is also one of the owners of the Next Level nightclub, the scene of Carlo Webster’s murder on Wednesday night.
Police said on Sunday afternoon that the 911 Emergency Communication Centre received a call from a member of the public reporting that a masked man, carrying what appeared to be a firearm, approached the bar and demanded cash. Detective Constable Gustavo Rodriquez who is investigating the incident said: “We would like to hear from anyone who was in the bar who saw what happened or anyone who was in the area who saw a vehicle leaving at high speed.”
Police have been told that the offender approached the bar from the car park adjacent to Books by the Bay. He demanded cash and was given an undisclosed sum from the cash register. He left on foot heading towards the Dog House. The offender is described as dark skinned between 5ft 5ins to 5ft 6ins with short curly black hair, wearing a black shirt and blue jean pants with black stockings over his head.
“We believe the offender ran past Dog House to the car park and made off in a vehicle, possibly an SUV. We would like to hear from anyone that was in the area who may have seen something that could help our enquiries,” said DC Rodriguez.
Anyone with information about this crime should contact DC Rodriguez 526-0767. People can also call Crime Stoppers on 800-8477 (TIPS). All persons calling Crime Stoppers remain anonymous, and are eligible for a reward of up to $1000, should their information lead to an arrest or recovery of property/drugs.
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Category: Headline News
RE: "Submitted by Sir Henry Morgan (not verified) on Tue, 09/15/2009 – 09:16.
I am sorry whodatis, but what an absolute pile of rubbish."
Dearest "private Henry Morgan",
Perhaps I failed to clarify my point.
My point in this matter is focused on the era / time / initiation of the genre of "gangster rap – NOT the message!
I agree, for the most part the message is the same today as it was yesteryear – however, back then it was driven by the genuine struggle, frustration and disenfranchisement of its participants. For example, Tupac in many of his songs and lyrics came across as a legendary prophet – absolutely amazing artist!
The difference today is that the genre is carried forward for monetary ambitions only – of both the artist and the FAT CAT mega-rich, white owner of the multi-billion dollar record company. Furthermore, the strength, prowess and value of a "great" rapper is measured in $ signs today. In essence there is no longer much honour to be found within the genre.
So, though the actual lyrics and message may appear the same today as before – it was at least coming from truly lost, angry and hungry souls back then. Today we have a situation of young men who have given up before even trying and decided – "Hey … I’ll be a ganster rapping thug!"
(If one has knowledge as to why he is failing in his environment, yet he continues along the same road – then he has no genuine excuse or reason for his actions.)
This is how I view the average gangster rapper of today. Always crying … "Whoa is me!" Liar! No you’re not – NWA, Tupac, Biggie, Eazy E etc. were very clear on the reality of life. However, for some reason young people choose to ingore the warnings and advice that ALL of these artists offered at different points in their careers.
I hope this helps to clear up any confusion .
RE: Jedi Dread,
I sort of see your point where you say we "shouldn’t blame the music", however, we have to bear in mind that today music is not just MUSIC.
Every popular songs now comes with a music video and that creates a visual for young people to absorb, study and copy. It is a very difficult to compare 1960’s rock fans bobbing their heads to the stereo to a 12 year old, adoelscent boy observing some tatted’ up, bling wearing rapper parking his Lambo next to his mega-yacht (both likely rented for the video nonetheless), where a boatload of stacked caramel honeys anxiously await him. Especially, when one considers that he achieved all of this by the drug / thug game – no?
To be a rocker one had to be musically talented and inclined – anyone can be a thug! I believe this is where the danger lies.
RE: If Only / Anon / Bit of Common Sense
I agree with all of your points (especially the points on parenting) and thank you for the kind words.
Lastly, all of this talk about gansgster rap depresses me – I like to remember a time before hip hop took such a negative detour.
Heavy D & Da Boyz / De La Soul / Arrested Development / A Tribe Called Quest / Scarface – anyone?
:o)
Re:
I am sorry whodatis, but what an absolute pile of rubbish. The message is still the same in the music as it has always been. Biggie, Tu Pac and Easy E were all about the same things that the rappers today are talking about being… cash, violence, drugs, cars and women. The songs are there to prove it, I guess you weren’t really listening to the message in their songs, so why don’t you go back and listen again before you start spouting crap all over this forum.
You might want to start with ‘Louiseville Slugger’ or ‘Gimmie Dat Nut’ by Easy E. and then come back and tell me what he was rapping about??
I must say you do write very well, its just a shame that the content was a bigger pile of rubbish than Mt Trashmore.
And btw it’s Sir Henry to you.
CITA and crime
I commend the CITA for getting the message out. Countering negative news is very important for the tourism industry. I would also encourage the CITA to use their lobbying force to pressure the CIG until they take additional action to counter the ever upwards spiraling crime rate in Cayman.
Lachlan MacTavish
Can’t blame the music folks… remember when they were saying Satanic Verses were in Rock n Roll, but to hear it you had to play the record backwards?
Please, not all rap is bad, not all reggae is bad, not all rock is bad etc…
People have to accept responsibility for their own actions. <<What ever happened to that.
I listened to Ozzy Osbourne and TuPac… I didn’t go out there and bite the heads off rats or go Thuggish to the Bone… c’mon…
for example here’s a hip-hop song with a good message…
T.I. feat. Justin Timberlake… Dead and Gone
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=52587518
Cannot believe we have regressed to blame the music again.
Footloose, anyone… anyone?
– Jedi Dread –
Jedi:
I am a hip hop lover. and when I say hip hop I mean the culture and all 9 elements to it. Not only that but genres of all kinds, however you must admit the "brand" of rap we got is completely different than what our youngsters are embracing. Where we looked at rap as a art form of lyrical expression and rhythm, a way of telling a story of hardships, love, life along the way it got harder and more violent to the point of what is now referred to ganster rapand which turned battling to beef. The litereally chopped and screw up versions is what’s being fed to the youth now…not just in Cayman.These kids fail to realise that most of it is just entertainment and only for the 3 to 4 minutes of the video and everything is gone when the director calls cut, the real people that live the life are either in on the run, in jail or dead, and is not the glorious life, every REAL gangster wishes they chose a better path. They recite Lil Wayne’s "flow" but fail to realise he’s speaking out both sides when it come to making money; pledging gang affiliation and next minute talking about collaboration album with anti gang message. All these rappers that claim to be products of Tupacism, yet never listen to the lyrics or the see the true realisation most of these gangster rappers come too after everyone around them drops like flies because of the ochestrated beefs that go too far. These kids need to realise what most the older rappers are saying now, when the "Game" eventually catches up with them. And sadly the game is catching our young men as well. I’m sure between us we could come up with scores of rap songs with lyrics of encouragement and realization, however I’m sad to say until these kids sit and listen and stop and think, they will never get the true message.
They wont look at T.I. now as say wow he’s stepping up and being responsible. How many of them do you think watched road to redemption and walked away with T.I. message? None. Instead of taking his lead they will turn to the other artist that is making money off the naive audiences that keep them paid, while we as a society have to deal with the viral influence that is being spread and manifesting in the worst possible way due to not having proper guidance to begin with. I think parents now a days say "I use to listen to rap and rock" but not the dumbed down over sexed gun totting violent stuff our youth are exposed to these days. Now it’s all about sex drugs and money.
I once heard a interview with Lupe Fiasco (for those who dont know, a rapper) where he said:
"When people started choosing me as a role model, I knew I had to switch up what I was saying. I knew what I was putting out there wasn’t healthy. It was real, but it wasn’t healthy. So I was like you know what, I have to show another face. I got to put something out there more positive. Because the worst thing you can do in this world is lead people astray." The Cool was an excellent album that portrayed all the hardships currently being faced by youth without proper guidance and the street life they tend to follow.
You know that’s what we need more off, people to stand up and be like i will commit to be a positive influnce, but how do we start? How do we get these kids to see we want to help them so that they accept our help and not retaliate?… parents need to be enlighted to the media that there kids are really following and play a more active role in monitoring the influences, music, movies, friends and even family…the kids need proper guidance and role models.
Dear "Henry Morgan",
RE: "Submitted by Sir Henry Morgan (not verified) on Mon, 09/14/2009 – 10:57.
RE: whodatis Don’t blame BET or gangsta rap for the worlds problems. The worlds problems are responsible for creating gangsta rap…"
You sound like I did back when I was a huge fan of some of the greatest "gangster rappers" (Biggie, Tupac, Easy E) – to this day I rate "Ready to Die", "Me Against the World" and "All Eyes on Me" as some of the greatest and notable music albums of recent time.
However, we have to keep things in perspective. Back then those guys were passionate and pouring their hearts and struggles of their people into their music. However, today what we have are a bunch of idiotic, "wankstaz / studio gangsters" whose only ambition is to make a quick buck – and all at the moral expense of their own people!
Let’s examine the general format:
1. Get some street cred (preferably by being shot – or even shoot yourself as Lil’ Wayne did).
2. Sign a contract
3. Do a song with Justin Timberlake (because the "larger White market" is where the big $$ is at.) Yeah – real "gangster" huh?! Sounds more like a commercialised business decision to me.
The legitimate (political / socio-economic) reasons behind why gangster rap even came into existence can no longer be argued – simply because the artists are now doing it merely for money!
The message is now entirely one of: "look at my bling – look at the ice (diamonds) – look at the candy paint on my Lamborghini – look at my ho’s (women) – look at my dough ($) – you’re (the purchaser of his cd!) too broke, you can’t do it like me!! – only fools go to college – make dat’ money man!!"
To top it all off it is now carried out in the most vulgar, misogynistic, ignorant and glorified fashion!
Here is where it relates to Cayman.
Cayman, due to its unrequited love for the UK, has never really embraced its history, hence, its cultural identity is a great intangible, white-wash of a Bible thumping mysterious entity. Many of our youths cannot identify with whatever it is our people / culture is supposed to be. Therefore, they latch on to the thing that appears, sounds, appeals and are exposed to the most – African American music (Hip-Hop / RnB).
It is to the point that many of them actually identify with and adopt the common African American’s plight as their own – ghetto lifestyle, ex-convicts, drug dealers on the corner, Momma is a crackhead, Daddy is not around, bullets flying by one’s head every night, police harrassment, racial discrimination by way of schooling, employment etc. Whereas some of these factors may be present in the lives of some of our youth – it is by nomeans to the extent that the majority of them like to PRETEND it is.
I am speaking from experience here, as I had a friend that grew up in the same good neighborhood as I did, a child of long-term married middle class parents – yet he was convinced that he had life as hard as "The Dogg Pound" did over in Compton, LA! (By the way, he has become another statistic in Caymanian society.)
No longer can BET / Gangster rap / hoochie mommas be excused – not in America or in Cayman – because, as I’ve said already, it is no longer a defensible art form.
Many African Americans themselves are now fighting against this poison as they realize that it does far more to hurt their people than to help. They are tired of being the dancing clown for the entire world, especially since others tend to utilize their "services" for mere youthful entertainment whereas their own people take its fatal message to heart and involve themselves in cyclic negative lifestyles – as many of our own have resorted to as well.
In conclusion, "Henry Morgan", that argument of yours used to defend "gangster rap" is no longer valid. T.I. said that America is a nation built upon violence hence the music genre reflects that reality – to that I say…what nation has not a violent history? If that’s the case shouldn’t Germany be spitting out some of the most brutal "musicians" (due to time line) – what about Africa – shouldn’t there now be a "75 Cent" of Darfur?
Caymanian kids do not realize how good they have it here. They really have no business identifying with the "ghetto" African American experience. (The average Caymanian salary is higher than that of an American, the average standard of living is higher than that of America, UK and many EU countries (personal opinion)).
However, I must admit that I don’t say this with much conviction. For as I outlined earlier – due to our history, lack of cultural identity, the rise in crime, and now the blatant discrimination against locals in (certain sectors) of the Caymanian workplace (glass-ceilings etc.) perhaps they soon will have true reason to identify with the most disenfranchised group in America?
Hmmm….
(* Note: In no way am I suggesting that African Americans are an inherently dysfunctional group due to race (as I am sure many will conveniently interpret my post to suggest.) All of the aforementioned issues are common-place at the lower socio-economic levels of any country. I can take any of you on a tour through certain parts of St. Petersburg, Russia or Manchester, England that would make your head spin!)
New found respect for Whodatis, extremely well written and thoughtful post. I 100% agree and couldn’t have written it any better. Glorification of the thug lifestyle is the primary source of problems associated with the recent rise in crime and should take the lions share of the blame.
Amazingly well put together and presented.
I consider my taste in music to be across the board from ABBA to Garth, LL Cool J to Beethoven, the Beastie Boys to Whitney. My radio is programmed to receive Rooster, 106.1, 104.1 and Breeze. I can pretty much handle it all.
But I cannot get my head around Gangsta Rap – the need to swear and glorify violence for the sake of it. There is an underlying anger, in many cases not too well covered, that only breeds on itself.
Throw this glorification into an already tense world – economically and racially – and it is like a lighted match in a room full of dynamite.
Sadly, Cayman has changed. It is part of the price of progress. We cannot turn back time, and despite intonations from many posters that that is what they want, deep down inside not many really want to sleep under mosquito nets without a/c and our beloved electronic gadgetry.
Instead, every family needs to take responsibility for themselves. Educate the youth of the ways of the world. Encourage tolerance and understanding. Respect and acceptance have been erased from most minds of the youth of today and replaced with anger and instant gratification.
We are a society that wants it all and wants it now. Sadly, wanting it all means the good will, and has, come with the bad. We hear rants about taking our island back, when in fact, we should be embracing the multi-cultural society that we have become, and working together to better it.
Banning BET is not the answer – parents, guardians and family are the answer. Noone came into this worldknowing it all. We learned. We learned from our family, our friends, our parents and our peers. We made mistakes, and were guided back on track. Sometimes this took a brief conversation from a parent, other times it took a stiff whack from a teacher.
Over time, however, society has frowned on the whip approach. We got soft. And a young mind is strong and stubborn at times. If you treat it softly, it will test for new limits. A cigarette becomes a spliff. Rap music becomes Gangsta. A fist fight becomes a gun battle.
Parents, take control of your kids. If you cannot do it, enlist the help of someone who can. It is tough love. They may say they hate you for it. They may lash out. But if you don’t, then you cannot sit back and blame society.
Parents can control who their kids hang out with. They can control what they watch on TV. They can control what they listen to.
Be nosey, be in their faces. TV always on? Turn it off. You pay the bills, you control the TV. If an allowance is used to buy something disagreeable, pull the allowance.
Sadly, there is a lost generationthat is out there now. They have grown up without controls and are showing us what happens as a result. They are shooting at each other, killing each other. Dealing drugs to keep the cash coming.
I do not know the answer for this lost generation. Obviously if they are breaking the law, they need to be held accountable. It takes seriously tough love to turn a friend or family in to the police, but I am not sure there is any other way. If not, the tears shed over the loss of someone close are as much for the sadness of not correcting them as they are for their loss.
My heart goes out to the family of Carlos. I did not know him, but I do know a member of the family. I do not even know the reason for his demise.
But I do know he is a mother’s son. A sister’s brother and a friend’s friend.
And right now, I am almost certain that every single one of them is wishing they had done something different before it was too late.
Stop the hatred and vitriol. Stop blaming everyone else.
Start taking responsibility – if not, you have noone to blame, hate and curse at than yourself.
In the discussion of controling crime & illegal firearms here in Cayman I often hear reference to the United States and I want to strongly refute any comparisions between the 2 countries.
Cayman’s small population and limited area and borders make it a realistic expectation that crime and illegal firearms can be dealt with and the public need not resort to arming themselves for personal protection.
There are probably only a dozen or several dozen sellers of guns in the country and arresting , convicting and or deporting these misery sellers ought to be achieveable.
When the public has had enough from the criminal element and choose to step up and report the criminal activity they are aware of then crime will decrease.
Dear Lachlan MacTavish,
While most of your points are realistic and promising, how does ‘Banning the Importation of Firearms’ have any effect on Crime. These guns are Imported Illegally.
Banning Firearm Importation only serves to keep firearms out of the hands of those who are Qualified to have them.
When the UK ‘Outlawed’ handgun possesion, handgun crimes went up more than 40% in the first 2 years alone. Reason, the Potential Victims were no longer armed.
See the following article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm
Food for thought !
Dear Richard Wadd…….
Thank-you by the way for using your name. I respect that greatly.
I have read numerous articles similar to the one you attached re gun control. For the UK and Canada mostly. My almost 4 decade experience with Cayman tells me that we cannot use data/stats from much larger countries as a comparison to Cayman. We are very sophisticated in some ways and very naive in others. Cayman IMHO needs modified global standards and rules for SOME issues. In the case of guns the most intelligent, sophisticated and mature "gun owners" in Cayman are different from one in the UK or Canada. It is a cultural thing. A Caribbean thing. There is a more casual and forgiving approach in The Caribbean…
What I am saying is there is no need for guns in The Cayman Islands for anyone…….anyone at all. Having laws that allow for the importation and ownership of firearms just naturally opens up a can of deadly worms.
If the CIG banned the importation and private home ownership of all firearms, provided secure police locker storage for firearms presently owned and on the island (owners could check out their "target pistols" for the Saturday shoot ….BTW…..I know of soooo many hand guns that were imported as target pistols…..most are stainless 357, 40, 44, 9mm….real target pistols ;-)) passed gun laws that would put someone in jail and fine them a lot of money for fire arm possession…..then allowed illegal guns time to be turned in….then ENFORCE the laws…patrol our borders….have expat police…..then I believe we would see a slow gradual drop in gun violence.
Social, economic and geographical issues create situations for violence. This is dangerous grd but why do the local so called cool dudes wear their pants down around their hips or wear colors….Caribbean ting….naw mon…..Television movie ting.
It is soooo sad but I bet you the moron who killed the poor individual in The next Level held the gun sideways….da gansta ting.
People create the violence….not guns…..but people prone to violence who have access to guns will use guns for violence.
All due respect sir but Cayman is to small in many ways other than the size of teh island to have guns.
All the best
Lachlan MacTavish
"Thank-you by the way for using your name. I respect that greatly."
Now that’s funny….
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" – Adolf Hitler, 1935
Er…. Lach………do you think his name really is Richard Wadd? I presume it’s a nom de plume. Richard=Dick and Wadd as in Johnny Wadd of porn movie fame. Maybe I’m wrong. If so, apologies Richard.
Names………you know because I use my name all the time I never play the …analyse the "nom de plume" game…….He GOT me…….to bad….wish more people COULD stand up and use their real names.
Lachlan MacTavish
I am sure he answers to the name Dick.
Don’t worry Lach, most people don’t seem to have caught Dick’s trick. Those of us who are brave enough to use our real names should not worry about that but instead just hold our heads very high.
Richard Head (aka Richard Cheese)
It never amazes me as to Mr. Wadd’s ability to make amazing leaps of logic without any foundation but he has surpassed himself with the line "Reason, the Potential Victims were no longer armed." There is no basis to say this and if you knew anything about the UK’s attitude to firearms you would know it is nonsense. Gun crime increased after the Dunblane ban because gun crime was increasing. No-one, not even the nutters in the Countryside Alliance tried to say that the ban was causing an increase in crime.
Access to guns increases gun crime. Evidence – the USA. Need we say more. We banned hand guns in the UK following the Hungerford and Dunblanetragedies, but in the US these type of events happen a few times every year.
RE: whodatis
Don’t blame BET or gangsta rap for the worlds problems. The worlds problems are responsible for creating gangsta rap. If there were no problems in the world then gangsta rappers wouldn’t have sh!t to rap about now would they??
The governments of the world are responsible for the problem we are facing because they have been ‘dumbing down’ the people. If childeren were properly educated we wouldn’t be dealing with such a high crime rate, of course lack of guidance from the parents also plays a roll. But with no education and no guidance from parents of course they will idolize and want to be like the only role models they know (rappers who they see on TV).
It’s like gangsta rapper Trick Daddy says in one of his songs… "The children are the future, and if they can’t read and write then they’ll grow up an’ shoot yah!"
Dearest Mr Weller thank you for your history lesson it was most informative and please stop threatening to leave and do carry out your threat to leave us in deep doodoo. However before you go please reverse the role of Jamaicans in Cayman To what if Caymanians were in Jamaica and what would be the outcome. Respect and tolerance has its limits and as Clint Eastwood aka Dirty Harry would say "A mans got to know his limitations" We do appreciate your concern though!
At a minimum all buisnesses should have a security guard available to them in todays society. The time has come. Every Buisness Owner take heed.
A friend of mine in the UK, a young mother with an 5 month old baby, was lamenting on Facebook the other day that, because the baby will not sleep at night, she is so tired that she doesn’t even know what year it is, never mind what day.
Someone, unknown to me but obviously living in Cayman, wrote, "In Cayman it is 1965."
He’s wrong. It’s 1956.
In 1958 the, "Notting Hill Race Riots " took place in that part of London. All that summer there had been simmering tension between white Teddy Boys and black Jamaicans and it all boiled over into violent street fighting in August of that year.
There was no equivalent of CNS in Notting Hill in the early fifties but if there had been I think that the comments would have been similar to some of the things we read here.
The Jamaicans had been invited to come to the UK. Officials went to Jamaica and pleaded with them to uproot and take the biggest risk of their lives. Hundreds did just that and later thousands followed them. As soon as things got tough in the UK as things always do eventually, who did the disaffected London youth blame? The Jamaicans,whose only crime had been to accept an invitation thinking that they were helping a country in deep trouble after fighting a long and expensive war with Germany.
Those hundred or so Teddy Boys (that’s all there were) were responsible for one of the most disgraceful episodes in recent British history. It’s odd how ashamed I feel at the moment writing about it.
See any parallels? The Jamaicans did not come to exploit or take advantage of Britain. They came to help the Mother country in its time of need. I’m sure that there were some bad eggs among them but they didn’t deserve the hatred and bile that was poured upon them.
Please think before you blame us for all the problems Cayman has. Unlike the Jamaicans in London 50 years ago, we can all pack up and go and then you really would be in deep doo doo.
Why not try it and see how deep the doo doo is? You might be surprised there is no doo doo at all.
You really don’t get it do you? Left to itself this island is economically unviable. We rely on foreign input for absolutely everything, from the financial services to the staffing in the hotels/bars and domestic help. Without ex-pats the Civil Service would fall apart and the very few ‘competent to excellent’ Civil Servants that there are, all seem to be Brackers.
Even the Caymanians giving out the press release to do with Civil Service days off in return for a pay cut couldn’t get it right. They forgot to or neglected to or were too incompetent to mention that the extra leave was to be paid leave. As they are probably poorly educated and probably only got the job because of a family connection, it is hardly surprising.
This country produces absolutely nothing apart from rum cakes and Barefoot Man songs. Ships arrive full and leave empty because Cayman has no secondary industry whatsoever. We don’t make anything to sell abroad.
All we have is tourism and those numbers are declining rapidly. Apart from the sea, sand and sun, what else do we have to offer tourists? Sorry that should be, what else are tourists offered? A trip to see turtles swimming in their own shit or some captive dolphins in a totally unnatural environment. Both ‘attractions are ludicrously expensive. There is no sense of history here and certainly no culture.
Visitors come out feeling disappointed and let down. What do you suppose they tell their friends when they get home. Three months ago two friends stopped of here on a cruise. They had been here before and were a little embarrassed to admit to us that if they hadn’t agreed to meet us at the Paradise restaurant for lunch, they would have stayed on board in the A/C. The sea, sand and sun is available all over the world and usually much cheaper too. Cayman has competition but you would never think it.
West Bay Road looks like it entered a Miami lookalike competition, and came fifth.
Look at the anti-expat postings from Caymanians. When it is clear that the writer is Caymanian, the posting is littered with words which are wrongly spelt, a total absence of punctuation and a word order that frequently makes the piece unintelligible.
If this gradual tide of venom against ex-pats continues to rise, some of us will go and if I knew then what I know now, I wouldn’t have come here 5 years ago. My colleagues back in the UK are aware of the situation here and I promise you that there will be no rush to replace me when I go.
I feel cheated. I arrived five years ago, two months before Ivan but despite that I really thought I was in Paradise. The Caymanian people were so warm and friendly and did all they could to make me and my wife totally comfortable and welcome. We told each other that it was too good to be true and it was.
I cannot believe you directed me to read this post ………… There I go again, becoming angry at you.
You have no idea of my history. 80 to 40 years ago we had a thriving industry building schooners that were sought after and exported all ove the world ( an average of 6 per year even without modern mechanical tools and plants). We had a thriving thatch rope industry manufacturing a product that was in high demand through the world because unlike hemp or manilla rope the rope made from the fibers of teh Cayman Silver Thatch palm dod not prematurely rot in salt water. We exported a much sought after red henna dye made from the bark of the mangrove trees. We had a thriving Catboat building induatry that supplied the needs of the Island to the point that importation of boats were unheard of. We exported professional top notch labor in the form of seamen that were the envy of all nations. We had subsistance farming that supplied the needs of all Caymanians locally making it unnecessary to import food and meat. As recently as 20 years ago we had a tourism industry that thrived on the good will and disposition of the Caymanian people, not white sand, sea and sun. At the first hotel I worked at we had a 65% repeat clientel because people returned to see the local friends that they had met here and advertising overseas was almost unheardof.
You came here 5 years ago and assume to know my history? You know nothing from whence my people came. You assume that what you found here represents the way we were. Have you ever considered that the doo doo you speak of was dragged in on the soles of people who, for all the wrong reasons chose to force yourself on this island. (angry man again)
Yes I know things have changed. They have changed because of outside influences and people like you who speak of Cayman as if you really know what you are talking about when you don’t. (really really angry man again)
Hey Robo Cop…
I do not believe I have ever read a more hateful and ignorant posting regarding the Cayman Islands. It seems clear that you neither appreciate nor understand the land in which you have come to live. It is expats with attitudes like yours that give the rest of us a bad reputation on this island. I don’t know when your contract is up, but Bon Voyage when it is!
The Cayman Islands might not have a wealth of natural resources but Caymanians have always found a way to maximize what God has given them in order to provide for their families and make their way in the world. That will not change. With or without tourism, with or without financial services, with or without expats, the Cayman Islands will find a way to survive and, hopefully, flourish in the years to come. They always have. I suspect they always will.
Idle minds will always find things to do.This is a situation of all the residents not one group. The media should not be used for the promotion of hate and biasness. But i guess that will stop when someone swings a lawsuit at one of the medias.
We all must become aware of out surroundings at all time. Change our thinking and install security equipment in our homes, business etc. Crimefree Cayman is non-existant now. Dont wait until a crime comes to you. It is happening everyday. Take measures now.
But is it my imagination or is it that non-caymanian businesses are being robbed?
Lalli is Caymanian…through status, but isn’t that still Caymanian?
No. You need at least 7 generations here to become a "true blood Caymanian". Everyone else is just a "paper" Caymanian (aka an invading expat).
Nobody (except a few sad losers that have never left the island and sleep with goats) cares about being a true blood caymanian. The majority of blood Caymanians live in northward or should do at least.
Lots of people want status so that they can legally reside here and avoid paying taxes for as long as possible
I couldn’t give a flying fork about being thought of as a Caymanian, but what I do like is having the status so I can run businesses without needing to have a ‘silent’ caymanian partner.
Here, here. As a 6th generation Caymanian I firmly believe that if we limited the vote to those with 6 generations or more (and proof of it) we would all be better off.
Anon Mon 16:22:
Your suggestion is NOT good for genetic vigour, ie it would lead to the problems associated with inbreeding.That has been a problem here in the past-don’t go there, that’s misplaced nationalism.
You are being very silly. No one questioned whether the late Sir Vassel Johnson was a true Caymanian yet he was not born in these Islands or to Caymanian parents. It more a question of self-identification and loyalty. He considered himself Caymanian and did not simply adopt a flag of convenience.
P.S. It so happens that I am an 8th generation Caymanian.
NO!!
I am a 7th generation Caymanian. I can count those with 4 generations or less whom I consider true and honest Caymanians on my 12 fingers.
There is no such thing as a non caymanian business…or did you not know that all businesses need a 60% caymanian partner?
Anyway…these issues have nothing to do with Caymanianness or non…why do you always need to bring this in to the argument?
This is a sad situation and it will take everyone to participate and help the police in stopping it!
The sources of Statistical Evidence for supporting Capital punishment have to be looked at very carefully when doing research, or one can arrive at the wrong conclusion. For example, Jamaica has CP, but hasn’t enforced it since the 1980’s. No deterant there.
The REAL deterant for Crime is not Capital Punishment, but rather Corporal Punishment, and ALL the statistics support this.
Real Punishment is reflected in the saying, "He who FEELS IT, knows it".
Just like raising a child, the bounderies for controlling certain types of behavior in any society MUST be defined by a Porgressive system of Punishment that is reflective of the level of tolerance the society has for that type of behavior.
When we offer the same level of punishment for the murderer as we do for the petty thief, we are lowering the values of our society. When a victim can be brutally Raped, a innocent child sexually abused, and we only see fit to give the offender a 6 month ‘vacation’, WHAT are we really saying?
To the child: your innocense and pain means nothing to us. The fact that you will bear these scars for the rest of you life means nothing. It must have been your fault for tempting this adult into commiting this crime against you.
To the Perp: Go and ‘chill’ for 6 months, just don’t do it again, and we will forget all about it.
Why are the Victims made to bear these ‘Scars’, while the criminals get away (quite literally) with murder?
Hard Labour, the ‘Whip’, and Dreaded Prison conditions, THESE are real deterants, and they NEED to be applied to convicted criminals, as well as REAL sentencing, not just a ‘slap-on-the-wrist’.
Stop ‘bleeding your heart’ for the criminals, and start doing it for the victims, or else we will ALL soon become victims ourselves.
Where does one hear that a ‘machete weilding’ individual who threatens bodily harm against individual/s is released without charge, while those who dis-armed him, and possibly saved lives, are charged with assault?
By the way, has anyone done an article on the ‘Northward Experience’? What can a prisoner expect in Prison here in Cayman? Facilities? Food? Visitation? Lodging / Cells? It would make very interesting reading to those who haven’t got a clue !
At the end of the day, to Deter Crime, one MUST have effective punishment, and Incaceration alone just ‘ain’t cutting it’. Time to resurect the forms of Punishment that have a Historical Track-record of being effective.
The Hell with ‘Criminal’s rights’, I say bring back Victim’s Rights !
Re: "Victim’s Rights"
We currently have rights, but, "If a man neglects to enforce his rights, he cannot complain if, after a while, the law follows his example." ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Otherwise, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
To the poster:
Undoubtedly it is true, in fact self-evidently true, that better family units lead to better societies.
The real question is as to who is responsible for the destruction of Cayman society: with the men whose drive to fornicate with young Caymanian women who are not their wives overwhelms any rational thought about wearing a condom, or the young Caymanian women who drop their panties and jump in to bed with these deadbeat men who are not their husbands without regard to the consequences of such rampant promiscuity?
Or is it the fault of a society that refuses to educate young people about sex? Is it the parents or the teachers? The fornicating men or the promiscuous women?
Or the child who picks up a gun, because nobody was there to love him?
Or maybe it’s my fault, because I stood around while morality collapsed, and did nothing to help? If that’s the answer, then I am truly sorry for my failure.
But either way, young Caymanians would you please keep your dxxxs in your pants and your underwear on your a$$es. A trip to church, with an open heart and mind, wouldn’t kill you.
Crime is a major problem on this island and we do not get control, we will suffer dearly. The deadlines will turn away would be visitors, the prospective investors will take a second look and we will be a people who are scared to leave out homes. Some will start to put burglar bars on windows. All of us must work with law enforcement to stem this tide. It is already getting out of hand.
I agree with the poster who suggestthat we must carry out a thorough check on who is on this island illegally. These people should not be allowed to stay and the persons harbouring them should be made to pay.
We must revive neighbourhood watches and take out communities back.
Our children must be made to respect law and order- We have to start at the pre school and the primary school to instill rules. Parents must be re engaged in the proper rearing of their children. That’s where is MUST begin. In the home. We have to stop making excuses for our children’s wrong doing.
Come on people of Cayman, let us join forces to rid this island of the criminals and while we are at it, the prison must be a place where people should be scared to go, it must be seen deterrent. It can no longer be seen as a home away from home for some of these people who are repeat offenders.
How to fight crime. Education of the parents, parenting and more parenting. Strong control of our schools by the administrators with NO parental or political interference. All public schools have a uniform code. Truency officers. Police taking young people back home after 10:00pm on school nights. Police presence at the schools keeping the low lifes away. New full CIG budget for the police department. Here is one you will not like. We have shown that we cannot control crime in our country with our present system. Recruit 100 UK and Canadian police officers on 3 year contracts. Watch crime go down. Recruit local constablutory. neighborhood watches with fast response police teams. Round up all the known drug dealers on the island. Continuos road blocks……at night…..until drunk driving is curbed. Control the borders. And last another that you will not like…….permanent ban on the importation of any firearms.
Lachlan MacTavish
Whatever you’re smoking must be illegal!
For those of you that weren’t here 4 years ago or have no memory we went through this same situation before with a previous serious spike in crime and the previous dummies and certain government officials scramble off to the LA with the very foolish notion that a bunch of draconian measures drafted into over 18 laws and amendments was suppose to fix all these problems.
I hope they see now and It is now also very clear that it did not effect crime and the reason they have not worked is because that was not the problem in the first place. So all you martial law pundits bear this in mind the more law you have the less justice.
One of the main problems of crime today is a serious disconnect with our young people and this started several governments back where certain government officials had no plans or foresight for our youth and when the word gang was mentioned he changed it to groups and did nothing because their children were unaffected or got situated in the Cayman business community, They made it by family name or mom and dad pave the way.
This forgotten generation of children however got involved with crime went to prison or were killed and also had kids some even went overseas They are now todays crime problems and add some serious foreign elements to this and you can guess where it goes from there. We also had a serious drastic change in Policing strategy in the past 6 years and certainly more political input which has not been a positive step forward in some instances. add economic hardships to this mix you end of with serious social implications.
Adding to this already serious problem is certain officials in Law enforcement conducting themslves improperly or in questionable situations in the public domain when they should be setting an example for the public. Causing serious mistrust and disrespect amongst members of the public and the criminal element also.
Simple fact – the majority of violent crime is committed by young males between 16 and 35. If you lock up a young male who has committed a violent crime until the age of 40, the incidence of repeat offences is very low.
On that basis, and on the basis that the first responsibility of government is to protect its citizens I say that government needs to significantly increase penalties for violent crime and implement measures (increasing the amounts paid out for information on violent criminals, electronic tagging, CCTV, etc) to increase the probability of catching the criminals. Deterence is based on a high probability of being caught and a fear of the consequences. We need to do both.
I also agree with previous posters about removing from locally available media all content that in any way glorifies "gangsta" culture – that includes some BET.
We need to reform Northward to make it a place the thugs fear going to. No more cell phones. No more TV. No more pizza delivery. Hard labour is what is needed. We also need to clear the foreign thugs out of Northward by arranging for them to be imprisoned in some terrifying foreign prison.
It is an unfortunate fact that some of our young men are lost and probably cannot be made into productive citizens until they are much older. We do need to work on crime prevention and the correction of our wayward youth but in my view the current emphasis has to be on increasing penalties and the probability of catching the thugs.
It is time to install CCTV cameras in all public places so that when a crime is commited the police can circulate the images to the general public. The island is so small these criminals would soon be recognised and charged. This approach was adopted many years ago in the Uk at football matches during the time when holliganism was rife. As a result many of these criminals were arrested and charged using the video evidence. It is now very uncommon to see any violence at Uk football venues.
West Ham v Milwall two weeks ago?
So one isolated incident invalidates the previous posters assertion that such violence is "uncommon"? Not in my book.
TWO PRONG APPROACH TO STEMING THE CRIME
Firstly all non-professional expats who are on work permit need to have their permits reviewed. Its a known fact that many of them have permits with no steady place of employment. These individuals have no source of income and somehow need to find away to survive albeit illegal. Obviously Caymanians are to be blamed for SOME of this increase in crime. On the face of it seems rather innocent; we are just trying to help someone remain on island with the hope they will find employment. We are doing our country a disservice by this practice.
Secondly, remove B.E.T.! I love hip-hop as much as the next guy but to a young mind, this instant gratification culture is destructive. Besides it has no place in Cayman culture. By the way I fit the BET demographic, so please do not misconstrue my thoughts for anything other than an attempt to fix a broken problem.
Concerned Caymanian
All black skinned males watch out. The cops are looking for you again.
Before everyone goes and starts blaming expats of any nationality, lets remember that over 70% (7 in 10) of prisioners in Northward are Caymanian. It doesn’t matter what nationality this hoodlum is, butthe fact that he is a thug, low life, loser who likes to play tough guy with a gun.
Excellent point. Some people still don’t get it.
True, but….most expatriate criminals are simply sent off-island and told not to return. THAT, just might account for why there are mainly Caymanians in Northward.
Which might be exactly why expats are a bit more carefull.
Any criminal record, even if it does not land you in Northward, and you automaticly lose your work permit. This is a mighty detterent as you will not be able to care for your family back home, who largly depend on the money send back, which is the most likely reason you came to Cayman in the first place.
Maybe we should expell the Caymanians with a criminal record. If they have no where to go, put them in a boat and we all know what we do with boat people.
I am not denying that a substantial proportion of criminals here are Caymanian but suggesting it is 70% because that is the ratio in Northward ignores the fact that as we are so soft on crime you either have to do something really serious or a series of little things to end up in jail. If you are caught doing something smaller and are not Caymanian you generally get deported and do not go to jail. Also – if you are an expat you are more anonymous and less likely to get caught. Nevertheless – the fairer way of determining criminality is on arrests/charges/convictions by nationality – not incarceration.
The rule of law needs to be enforced, it applies to everyone; tourists, residents and locals. Zero tolerance has been proven to work in many parts of the world including previously considered murder capitals such as New York City.
Some ideas….
– Have Police walk a beat in pairs in problems neighbourhoods
– Promote the use of Neighborhood Watch Programme
– Manditory sentencing when in possession of a unlicensed firearm (3 years minimum). Put signs up in those neighhoods where people may not have got the message.
– Sentencing of drug possision to supply should be based on the amount seized. 20 years can be quiet scary for someone hold a Kilo of cocaine.
– Have an agency to recover criminal assets which will ensure there is nothing left for the offender or his family to benefit from.
– Re-offenders have their sentence doubled automatically.
– Have an agency investiage people’s financial means which are not coming from obvious legitimate source. (Not unlike the powers of the taxman has elsewhere in the world)
For the younger Caymanians….
– Ensure vocational courses are available for those students who may or may not graduate. (Give them a sense of worth). This is a need for skilled labour in Cayman which financially can be very rewarding.
– Have away camps for teens (away from bad influences) during the summer months to learn something new (the Brac is far enough).
"Manditory sentencing when in possession of a unlicensed firearm (3 years minimum). Put signs up in those neighhoods where people may not have got the message."
This needs adjusting. I would be in favour of a 5 to 10 year minimum sentence on the use of a firearm in a crime PERIOD licensed or unlicensed. This is our problem right here 3 years amounts to a slap on teh wrist especially when you throw in good behavious.
I would institute real honest to God HARD TIME in Cayman. Our prisons are a joke to these people and is not a fear factor.
If we do not go for capital punishment and we have a joke for a prison then there is simply no deterrent for crimes like the murder at the nightclub and what we will start to see is more brazen acts.
Premeditated murder like the one that happened at the club should be met with something equally as hideous. Read into that what you will.
I heard someone say that fear of punishment does not but go to Singapore and see how they do things and then tell me about it.
We aere far too soft and have found ourselves falling into the nicity of prisons and crime. Some people can not be changed under any circumstances and having us pay for their loster dinner for the rest of their lives don’t work for me either.
We need our punishment scheme redone where drugs, guns, murder and rape are concerned. We need our prisons reestructured to be someplace people genuinely fear going to.
Any evidence to support the alleged deterrent effect of capital punishment – because there is a vast body of research out there that says it has no deterrent effect whatsoever, and if anything means that killer walk free as juries are less likely to convict on capital cases.
Anonymous 09/13/2009 – 22:32,
You might be correct that capital punishment is not a deterrent to some, but would please share with us how you would address the problem of violent crime, such as armed robbery and murder…?
Dred,
Section 39 of the Firearms Law (2008 Revision) currently provides a seven (7) year minimum for possession, unless there are exceptional circumstances.
Read Firearms Law here: http://www.gazettes.gov.ky/pls/portal30/docs/Folder/SITE83/GAZETTES/GS2008/GS352008.PDF
We need to stop living in denial immediately! Our worst nightmare has arrived and it’s going to get worse. Playing the blame-game is going to leave us with egg on our faces sooner than later.
Supporting single mothers would be the logical first step in reducing youth crime. I am a single mother, and I cannot tell you the sacrifices I have made to assure that my child DOES NOT go to Government schools. I do not have a shiny new BMW, I do not go out to bars and waste my money, I do not buy things for myself, I send my child to the best school I can, and save every week for University.
I know well of our public school system -the lack of parent involvement, the gangs, the appathy, and the rudenest of these young people is simply astounding. Most of these children have so little respect for themselves and others that it is frightening. Where are their parents???
I know many parents are uninvolved, they themselves are poorly educated and appathetic. Kids come over to my house that I have never met, I do not know there parents – why the heck aren’t their parents concerned, that their ofspring are AWOL!!!! Don’t they have the where with all to make after school plans??? Do they care so little or are they just so blind and ignorant? I do not know the answer, but it is very sad.
Yet, what are we supposed to do with our children from 3:00 to 5:30???? We don’t all have flexible work hours or the money for a helper! So the kids are left to roam free. If mothers were supported, and children had structured after school activities (manditory unless picked up by a designated adult) I assure you, you would see a decrease in crime. We as a country choose not it invest in our young people and now it has come to bite us in the backside.
With all the spelling errors in your post, maybe you should try sending yourself to that private school your child goes to!!
While I agree with some of your points re: that close supervision after school is strongly needed, there’s nothing wrong with sending your child to a government school! I am so TIRED of hearing our government schools being bashed…OVER AND OVER AGAIN…over a FEW ROTTEN APPLES! A lot of prominent and successful professionals working within our community right now have all been products of our public school system. What is needed is for parents toquit trying to be their children’s ‘friends’ and start being real authority figures. We all need to return to the old days of neighbours looking out for neighbours and that "it takes a village to raise a child" mentality.
For those young boys especially who insist on being deviant and defiant, then they must be made to understand and appreciate that to every action, there IS a CONSEQUENCE – and a very harsh one too, if needs be! For those parents who insist on turning a blind eye and to berate others when they’re child’s clearly proven him/herself deviant, then some punitive measures should be laid on them too!
Signed,
Tired and fed up…time to take our country back before it’s too late!!!
Cayman needs to address the rampant teenage pregnancy which is a significant cause of poverty and crime in this country.
I am also a single mother who transfer my child from a public school to a private school, and I also admire you for making the right decition for your child.
I’m sorry folks but most of the kids (not all) at public school have any manners and are so bad behave, kids cannot learn in that enviroment and most of last year kids didn’t get much homework because lack of printing paper, government does not have the funds to provide a good educations to the kids, they no longer have books like they use to that is why the young kids are out there looking for trouble because they didn’t learn much or maybe nothing at school.
Do you know that kids are being move up in primary school because the school wants to get rit of them ASAP so they don’t care if the kids learn or not that’s your job as a parent.
Are you doing your part PARENTS?
I am!!!!!!
What do you mean that you are doing your part? Are you suggesting that it is only when a mother sends her child to a private school that she’s being a good parent? Please! What’s really interesting is that the very people who attack the government schools for being "under-funded" and "under-resourced", are the same ones who gripe and complain about the school fees which are needed to run these institutions. Not to mention, they’re quick to protest whenever there’s a slightest mention of these fees being raised while, instead, turn around and boast of the "sacrifice" they make to, alternatively, place their child/children in a private school.
Unfortunately, in recent years, the poor mis-judgment was made to terminate collection of book and school fees as a means to assist disadvantaged parents during these present difficult circumstances. Incidentally now, there’s persistent criticism of the government schools being ill-equipped. Well, here now lies an opportunity for parents to TRULY do THEIR PART and become actively involved in their child’s education…even should that mean trying to source those necessary supplies. As the saying goes, "the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step!" Therefore, if you were truly doing YOUR PART, then you’d perhaps offer creative solutions on how to secure these resources…instead of laying blame on the schools for not footing the bill with absolutely little to no revenue from anyone at all!
I am proud to say that, I too, am a single mother…and I always seek to do right by my child! I am a product of the public school system and my child now attends the government high school. In fact, the education received through my earlier years of attending the local government schools was significant enough to attain a tertiary education and now be suitably employed!
As mentioned before, it is parents’ responsibility to discourage their child/children turning into those few bad apples that unfortunately corrupt our public schools and give them a bad name. Parents, be positive forces in your children’s lives and quit upholding their disgraceful unruly behaviour when it is that they are corrected by others. It is then…and only then…that we will start to witness real positive results in our children, schools and our community!
Signed,
Proud single mother and supporter of Cayman’s public schools!
Why did you have unprotected sex when you were not in a position to financially deal with giving birth to a child? Did you not know that sex makes babies? Why did you give yourself to a man who had not agreed to raise the resulting child with you (i.e. he was your husband)? Did you not discuss the fact that if he ejaculates in you without a condom, he and you will sooner or later become parents and what is he going to do when that happens (and it will happen eventually with unprotected sex)?
If not, WHY THE HELL NOT????? What were your parents teaching you??!?!!???
Why did you have unprotected sex when you were not in a position to financially deal with giving birth to a child? Did you not know that sex makes babies? Why did you give yourself to a man who had not agreed to raise the resulting child with you (i.e. he was your husband)? Did you not discuss the fact that if he ejaculates in you without a condom, he and you will sooner or later become parents and what is he going to do when that happens (and it will happen eventually with unprotected sex)?
If not, WHY THE HELL NOT????? What were your parents teaching you??!?!!???
That’s very rude. Making assumptions. She could have been married and her husband died. Is that her fault too? What’s wrong with you people?
The "B.E.T. Effect"
(Re-post: Sorry CNS – hope you allow.)
Cayman, this is what happens when you let BET television channel raise your kids!
Bottom line.
Stop ranting and raving about how things use to be 50 years ago.
Even the best of parenting skills faces a tough battle against what our kids are exposed to today (last 15 years) by way of popular entertainment – hip-hop / rap / dancehall.
Do you guys realise that today’s films, songs and music videos are essentially "how-to" guides and instruction manuals to a life of crime and debauchery.
I am a young Caymanian man, still in my 20s, so I’m not an old fuddy-duddy – but I clearly see the negative impact that 50 Cent, Lil Wayne and Young Jeezy are having on today’s youth.
The mindset is one of – get cash, get it quick, get it any way you can – forget about the traditional, legal and long-term approach…that way is for LOSERS!
Be a thug, drive a nice car, get the girls, get a dozen tattoos – hey, while you’re at it … why not impregnate one of those hundreds of girls that are now actually dying to sleep with you, Mr. Super Thug 2009.
Good luck to us all.
(P.S. Does anyone else realize that the growth of our local population is spear-headed by the high number of young individuals that follow this way of life?! People of this "class" don’t normally take the "family planning" approach to child-making – however, they’re making a LOT of (illegitimate) children nonetheless. How bright is our future folks?)
Great points. The last person who pointed out the ridiculously high rate of teenage pregnancies out of wedlock in Cayman was branded a racist – so watch out!
You are so correct. I can’t tell you how many times I stress about the availability of such low taste programming. Don’t get me wrong BET Jazz is a great channel, (not old by the way in my 20s as well), but the regular BET is horrible, and the thing is lots of other countries complain about the choice of cable providers having this channel. The other thing is do you realise BET is on the basic channel. Kids come home at 3 and some foolishness is on the tv about an icecream paint job. And that’s how they spend their evenings seeing influences of less that par talent flaunting “bling” and “grills” and quick riches. Another thing is You tube. While I enjoy viewing other you tube users creative viedos, I really feel there is a lack of parenting in monitoring the media your children are exposed to. The influences they pick up and with out being guided as to what is right is the problem. Please someone go on to you tube and type in Cayman FIght, the foolishness these children spend there time doing with media available to them such as camera phones and internet access not being monitored. If you do happen so see a child that you recognize and is family to you, please let their parents know how their child spends their time and also wasting resources in the school. I even saw one of a poor teacher trying to part it and then it gets gloried on youtube with bad language. Please please please. This is where it starts, not with government, police, etc. It starts with lax parenting. I’d also suggest to weststar to removing BET for trail to see what a difference it makes. BET has come under fire by cable companies and advertisers for poor programing.
Spare a thought for the bar tender and witnesses. Not only has this robber stolen money he did not earn, but he has now added fear to the lives of innocent people that were there.
He is a coward and needs to get a job. Rest assured that he will be turned away from the pearly gates and hopefully spend some time in Northward.
OMG!! This is a shock! I go there very often with my kids…to eat and let them play at the skate park or in the wave pool. Infact, we were there earlier in the evening yesterday! What if someone’s innocent child had been shot! Well seeing as it was around midnight, I wouldn’t want to think that young kids would still be there at that hour of th night, but stranger things have happened. It’s a scary thought! But what baffles me is where were the police?? When we arrived there around 5pm the police were in the parking lot. He left even before we got out of our car, however I was under the assumption that he would be back later. I can’t say that I saw any security around, but if I’m wrong about that my apologies. Grand Cayman has definitely a turn for the worse and all eyes are on us! How sad!
Police cannot be at every bar at closing time……there are not enough police.
And….a constable probably earns less than the bar tener. I hate to sound callous, but it’s true. How can they be at evey bar at midnight? Do you know how many bars close at 12 on a saturday?
Where were the police?????? Do you really think there is enough of them to be at every bar at closing time?
After this weeks events don’t you think the clubs would be more of a focus???
You just cannot be everywhere at once. There are only so many of them.
Parents ask you child, where were you when this crime was taking place. Check and confirm that your child is telling the truth and take sometime and talk to your child about the growing crime.
It is not tourists or expat professionals that are doing this but locals.
If Cayman wants to rid itself of this crime then it will have to have a curfew between dusk and dawn for all Caymanians under the age of, say, 30 years.
13:06 give me a break about the governement need to do something.
Cayman need to start and kill one of these criminials and they will understand not to enter someone place to rob them.
Business place you need to structure your business with mirrors by the cash register and have an empolyee by that mirror with a licence firearm to shoot to kill.
Oh, you will here a parent crying on the news about what you did to their baby, but parents like I said talk to your child/children someone will soon take the law in their own hands and do this.
I see it coming/happening Cayman, hope it’s not your child.
This is madness, as there just a couple hours before ,this is getting real close to home.
I wouldnt go to the movies on Friday night out of fear, now I am afraid to go to one of my fav places to take the kids for food. I feel I am trapped between work and home now.
It is getting out of control!
I sincerely hope that there were cameras at this site as well and that the thug with the gun is caught and imprisoned ASAP.
Other jurisdictions, including financial centres like Monaco, have virtually eliminated gun and other violent crime through use of measures to record criminal activities and the movement of criminals (including cameras), zero tolerance on petty crime from littering to loitering, significant payments to informers, and rapid police action. Maybe everyone who is released from Northward should have his whereabouts electronically monitored for say 10 years after release so that police will know if he is at a crime scene. Similarly persons on bail awaiting trial for violent offenses should have their whereabouts monitored constantly.
A high probability of being caught together with Draconian punishments does deter criminals.
I also agree with the previous poster that somehow we have to impress on our politicians that we expect them to be doing something about crime rather than travelling overseas to beauty pagents.
♫ I always feel like, somebody’s watching me ♫
I think this is a problem with the younger generation not the people in prison, maybe we should start getting a finger print/DNA database together of everyone on the island? Also make the penalties stricter, give them 20 years for having a gun whether you use it or not. If you don’t have a license you’re going to jail or back to your country whichever applies. Although I think this is the young caymanians this time….
I agree. Make all crimes zero tolerance.
The problam with that is, people here don’t want to see it.
"Why you getting me for traffic offences??"…criminals don’t have insurance or coupon. (I do, I am law abiding and do not mind getting checked)
"Why concentrate on ganja?" because criminals and gun shooters smoke it. (I don’t, I am law abiding and do not mind getting checked)
"Why concentrate on illegal lottery?" because small stores get robbed because they have heaps of illegal cash. (I don’t play, I am law abiding and do not mind getting checked)
But NOOOO…..police tackle this and people complain. You cant fuckin win.
Well what will it take for us to wake up and deal with this new way of life in Cayman?
Are we going to form another committee, get another professional opinon on the crime wave, or are we going to attack it head on kick our politicians in the A_ _ to get some action going, or are we going to wait til we are looking down the barrel of a gun or see someone we love taking thier last breath that has been shot for no reason at all!
Come on Cayman lets join together and put an end to this senseless violence before we can’t even come out of our homes!
Cayman we are disfranchising our younger people and for people who dont give a darn about Cayman and have absolutely no regard but their own materialistic desires and comfort. their solutions are to use law enforcement to crush social concerns and problems so they don’t have to see it or deal with it.
Sounds like the best way. It is way to late to save these thugs. Years of poor parenting and blaming others has led to a generation of gangsters, too lazy to earn an honest living.
Your post typifies my comment as you are trying to blame others for your own families failures and your failures as a parent. You blame foreigners for their materialistic view, yet I bet you’re writing the comments using your blackberry, probably whilst sat in your landrover driving back from brunch.
Stricter law enforcement is needed to crush these villains. It is too late to give them hugs and send them to Disneyland. They need very very harsh prison terms. And yes, partly to teach them a lesson and clean up the country and as you say, partly to appease the tourists and expatriates that invest in this country and it’s economy and help to keep you surrounded by all the materialistic possesions you could ever desire.
You should spend more time teaching your kids right from wrong and less time beating your wife and biting the hand that feeds you.
Absolutely right! Poor (or no more like it) parenting is the failure here. I know I will get based saying, it is too expensive, I have to work 2 jobs, no time to take care of family, etc. Well to that I say "DON’T HAVE KIDS you can’t take care of THAT ARE GOING TO ROB AND STEAL!"
I wonder if this gunman was the same one at UCCI? I do not blame the government, the expats, or anything else, this is for sure the parents fault. Yes, you will always have bad kids with great parents, but that is the exception NOT the rule.
I like the Disneyland comment, that had me laughing, and it is so true. As Chris Rock said, "If you call your grandma, mom and your mom Tina, you going to jail!".
It will only get worse, this path has been laid before by other previously great Caribbean Islands, Cayman is just the last one to fall, but it appears that it has.
Mamby Pampby Scottish led views of incarceration and punishment (the same kind that recently feed the Lockerbie bomber) are why we cannot penalize transgressors in the way we wish. Ask Jack and Rattray… they are the ones stopping it.
Yup! It’s the damn "furrinas" again causing these crimes to be committed. Not a single Caymanian involved, no doubt. It will be fascinating to see if they are English, Jamaican, Fillipino, Canadian, Honduran, American, East Caribbean or any of these other criminals some posters are always going on about.
When it comes out-if it ever does- I’ll post their nationalities because we need to get rid of this damn furrin stuff in our country. Watch this space proud Caymanians.
You miss the point. Whether the criminals are Caymanian or Expat, the deterrence of punishment desired by Caymanians is being prevented by the UK.
Good. The rights reputation of the UK internationally should not be brought down by ill informed misguided knee jerk reactions.
"Cayman we are disfranchising our younger people and for people who dont give a darn about Cayman and have absolutely no regard but their own materialistic desires and comfort. their solutions are to use law enforcement to crush social concerns and problems so they don’t have to see it or deal with it."
This seems to be a bit like"blame the ex-pat". I am an ex-pat, i am sucking up my 2% pay-cut, I am not earning enough to save much or send money home.
A lot of Caymanian kids might feel disenfranchised, but that is because they expect to be handed great jobs without having train for them. boo hoo.
You should be teaching your kids to work hard at school and develop some sort of work ethic, not come out with these half-baked justifications for violent crime.
How does a young Caymanian train for a job if even the apprentice positions are preserved for the friends of expat managers and businesses lie with impunity to immigration?
So the logic is this:
Premises:
Conclusion:
Rocket science….
umm – there are plenty of positions working as waiters or barstaff, but these jobs don’t seem to attract any caymanian applicants.
As for no apprenticeships being made available, do not all businesses need to be under partial caymanian ownership? Why do the caymanian stakeholders of these businesses not do something about and ensure that opportunities exist.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the caymanian stakeholders know their business will be better off with an expat workforce.
Where I work, caymanians take 5 times more sick days each year than expats. I know who i would rather employ.
SIR TURTLE:
I was swimming the other day and saw the young, drinking, and dissatisfied with life. That’s all, they believe, they could do to relieve themselves of the negative news of the economy. Ms. Sea Star advised me that there were SOME so dissatisfied with their lives that they were waiting for canoes "with supplies"
IF THE PARENTS EVER KNEW…
I SWAM UNDER A MORRIT’S DOCK ONE NIGHT, and saw one crying over some matters she had with his boyfriend. How the young people’s minds are so fickled to accept themselves and reality
IF ONLY THEY WERE TAUGHT TO TAKE THE TIME TO "SEE" LIFE AND APPRECIATE HOW THE "KING" HAS BLESSED THEM
This was likely a Civil Servant recouping his/her 2% up front.
(Speechless!)
I’m not surprised. I’ve sat outside the Brick House and eaten many times. The noise of the music coming from that bar is deafening.
I expect the gunman had asked them to turn it down and they hadn’t.
He was probably really cross.
Get a grip loser, if you don’t have anything useful to contribute then don’t bother.
Why do you keep going there if the music is too loud for you? Do everybody a favour and stay at home on your own you despicable waste of space.
The story here is that a popular bar/restaurant has been robbed whilst many innocent people were still around eating and drinking. If less people were scumbags like you and didn’t make such a joke out of shootings and crimes, then their kids wouldn’t be brought up thinking that crime is a joke and therefore ok.
Time for you to pi$$ off back home I think.
Quite the jackass, aren’t you?
"Time for you to pi$$ off back home I think."
Not a bad idea. Let’s all pack up and get the hell out of this new "little Jamaica".
Enough Caymanians have lost the warmth and welcoming they were once famous for, replaced with spouters of this vitriol. It’s a shame of enormous magnitude. This combined with the fact that this place is no longer safe for honest hard-working expats.
He’s right. It is time to go home.
You may or may not be the SOB that I perceive but you are very right and astute at your "Little Jamaica" analogy. That neighbours influence, coupled with that of Honduras and to some extent that of the US is undoubtedly partly responsible for our position… as well as others refusal to be a part of this community and give Caymanians fair opportunity.
Of course it’s everyone else’s fault but your own. Obviously you’re still blissfully unaware of the consequences (Next Level; UCCI; Brick House) of this type of attitude.
Actually, since I am an active mentor and take time out to assist young Caymanians to succeed, I know it is less my fault than others who I have watched do-down Caymanians in the face of warnings that a disenfranchised local populace could be everyone’s downfall. I have not given up yet – although you perhaps have.
I am the "nota bad idea" poster. I too am an active mentor of young Caymanians, though the ones I work with are very self-motivated and wonderful people, not disenfranchised would-be criminals.
I may be an SOB for taking my family out of harm’s way, but don’t think for a minute that I’m happy about it. The fact that I am seeing the fall of Cayman is one of the saddest events that I have experienced. I came here to joint you and contribute, to raise a family and share the gift that was the Cayman Islands. I never expected to fear for my family’s safety here, and have to run from an explosion of violent crime.
I may be an SOB, but this is NOT my idea of a good time.
The expat versus Caymanian stuff on CNS is quite depressing. Stresses are obviously there. But I think we need to remember it is probably not that many people on either "side" who continually post, apart from the one or two who are so angry when they read something they jump in too.
But then maybe I’m naive. If so, it’s a pity; it didn’t use to be this way between us.
Please hurry and go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Question: Why does Cayman never [poduce a comedian capable of raising even a titter?
Answer: Because Caymanians have absolutely no sense of satire or irony.
Do you know what those two words mean? I doubt it. It was never intended to be taken seriously. It was meant as a joke. You may not think it is at all funny but that’s how I meant it.
Of course anyone who tries to make a joke must be an expat who is only here to bleed the country dry and the robber cannot possibly be Caymanian and is definitely Jamaican because at midnight on a Saturday night all Caymanians are in bed getting an early night before Sunday morning church.
After reading the vitriol coming from Caymanians attacking expats in the Civil Service pay cut postings, I told my wife that I’d had it with Caymanians and we should go home.
"Wait a minute," she said to me, "you dislike all Caymanians, except those twenty or thirty whom you actually know?"
I’ve just shown her your posting and I think she conceded that I have a point. We may soon be returning to our corner of North London. We’ll be back among the Indians, Pakistanis, Jamaicans and Poles gays and lesbians who all get on really well with the 45% of us who were born in England.
You, as a bitter Caymanian will say, "Good riddance," but, believe it or not, it will be our gain and Cayman’s loss.
I had never encountered blatant racism until I came here but then I had never lived in such an overtly Christian society either.
Dr Mr Weller,
When people are being held at gun point it’s really no time to be joking around. It was only one itchy trigger finger away from another set of yellow tape and more really bad press for our Islands not to begin to mention another mother(s) crying for their child(ren).
I guess this is why the other writer was so hard on the point.
When you combine this with the murder that happened only a few short days ago I hope you can appreciate the more serious nature that people look at these incidents with.
There are many things to joke at in life but right now with all that is happening this is not going to be one of them.
A fair point and I apologise if you and others found my original comment to be in poor taste.
How refreshing to come across someone, who I assume is Caymanian, criticising me without using abusive language, and questioning my character.
You might join the twenty or thirty one day.
This guy has got to be lying about having 20-30 friends. Somebody as arrogant and self serving as you does not have that many friends.
And yes I am an expatriate and agree that he is a fool!
It’s funny that you automatically jumped to the conclusion that I was a Caymanian because I took issue with your bad jokes. I too am an expat and from a similar ‘corner of london’, the difference is I came here to work hard and enjoy a better life. To me, Caymanians are generally a very friendly people and I have plenty of Caymanian friends. Unlike you who merely thinks of Caymanians (and you admit it in your post) as an annoyance that you unfortunately have to deal with.
The drivel you wrote in your response was supposed to offendme except obviously I am not one of those ‘damn Caymanians’ you dislike so much so I don’t get offended by your vibes against them.
But I think I can count on the whole of Cayman being behind me (Locals, expats, tourists and even the fish) when I say, for the first time in your life you have had a good idea and now that your wife agrees, why dont you fook off home?
Arrogant fuckwits like you are the reason why some Caymanians will tar all expats with the same brush. XXXXXX
STAY AT HOME, I think it is time that families stayed at home more on week ends. Spend more time with you friends in your own back yard. Invite family and friends over, Bring our the grill, some music, and open the bottle of wine, the dominoes and and bingo. It is too much of a chance now just to hang out and do not know if you will make it back home.
I feel so much sorry for the family of that young man that was recently killed. Remember he is some mothers child, and it could have been yours. Dear parents and guardians, I know we will say that we cannot take off our heads and put in on theirs, but keep on communicating with your children. That is all we can do when they get big. Do not spend money on fast cars and such things. Watch them if they have money they have not worked for. Do not wash cook and support them if they do not have a job. I am a mother too and my heart cries for the mothers of these children. If they are trained up in the right way, and not encouraged in wrong doing they will remember your good words to them. Walk good.
This it how its going down Cayman and the streets are not safe and We dont need anymore Police either Over 350 police for 57,000 people the highest per capita in the world We simply cannot afford it! To the elected government Stop expanding this population the stress on our infastructure is starting effect Cayman society. In fact start curbing it before theses situations become more dangerous. And for those who think jail and prisons are the solutions think again.
One things for sure, this has become the wild wild west, its been coming for a time, the criminals have no fear of the police and all the talking and complaining in the world is going to change them. The youth need to be engaged NOW. The Goverment needs to shell out the cash for something for them to do NOW. When one of yours gets hurt or killed maybe you will agree then.
It’s not ALWAYS the Government’s obligation to "shell out the cash". Can’t you see that Government is broke as it is, and yet you expect them to dish out money that they don’t have?? The problem is children having children (i.e. teenage pregnancies), and parents not administering the correct punishment when their child/children does something wrong and parents not being responsible of their child’s/children’s whereabouts. Parents should NOT allow their children ages 17 and under to be roaming the streets at all hours of the night.
And quite frankly, it seems that the youth does not want to be helped. If they so desired that, then they would’ve made any and every effort to make life better for themselves, but NO…everyone just goes with the flow.
One is no longer able to effectively comment with gun crime after gun crime occurring in the Cayman Islands. All we can hope is that the public and the RCIP will join forces and deal with these thugs who have yet to learn that crime does not pay.
Tourist bars robbed at gun point, one step closer to a dead tourist.