Bush proposes payroll tax

| 24/09/2009

(CNS): After several days of tough negotiations with representatives from the UK’s Foreign and Commonwealth Office, McKeeva Bush told CNS on Wednesday evening that London was still holding out for some form of tax and had not granted approval for the government to access pre-arranged borrowings. The leader of government business said that he had offered the idea of a community fee or local tax, which would, he explained, have to be linked to payroll. Although the details of the proposal have not have been finalized, Bush said it would be based on earnings.

During another tough day of negotiations with still no go-ahead from the UK to access the $372 million loan which government has already negotiated with private banks in order to balance the 2009/10 budget, the planned resumption of the Legislative Assembly for the budget presentation on Friday was postponed until Monday 28 September.

Bush said that he would be meeting with the business community tomorrow afternoon before he convened a wider public meeting at the Court House on Thursday evening, by which time he was praying that he would have a decision from the UK and be able to outline where government intends to go. He did not say if the community enhancement fee would be across the board or apply just to work permit holders.

“Hopefully by tomorrow we will know. I am praying we will have an answer,” Bush said. He added that the planned meeting with the press on Thursday morning would have to be cancelled as he expected to be continuing talks with the UK, but he believed the meeting would be televised.

Explaining that to the keep the UK happy Cayman would have to implement some form of sustainable revenue raising measure, he said the community fee was the only type of tax he had not taken off the table.

“As you know, we have been opposed to property and income taxes but the community fee has been an idea that has never been ruled out. We will, however, have to bring in a mixture of this new fee and raise other fees as well to get the necessary revenue,” the LoGB explained, adding that he had been involved in the negotiations via telephone since he returned from his trip to the UK at the weekend.

Bush told CNS it was regrettable that Cayman was in such a difficult situation and he placed the blame squarely at the door of the previous PPM administration, which he said had really “messed up” and in particular the former education minister, Alden McLaughlin, whose insistence on the schools, the LoGB said, had contributed to the precarious financial situation the country was now in.

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  1. Anonymous says:

    I hope CNS let’s this be posted.

    I am from the U.S. Yes, I have been to Cayman Islands.

    Here’s what I see. The comments on this blog is exactly what has happened in the U.S. I am shocked that all of you haven’t figured this out. I am with Average Joe on this one, One World G.

    Can’t you guys see what’s happening and what you’re doing. You are fighting amongst yourselves – much like what has been happening in the U.S. the past few years. Here in the U.S., it was, "we’re filling jobs Americans don’t want to do." Stop this!!!! Look at the U.S. as an example and don’t follow the same footsteps. All you need to do is look at the "healthcare protests" in the U.S. to see the divisions in the U.S.

    I thought I was the gov’s job to protect the interest of the people! To make sure big corps don’t take advantage of the people….There used to be a time that the corps were afraid of the gov, now it seems this is not true.  Please, stop fighting amongst yourselves and work together to find a solution.

    The islands have changed, much like the U.S., drugs and crimes are rampant. Why is this all of a sudden? Here’s what I have been thinking: I think this was done so people wouldn’t know what is happening, and by the time they realize what is happening, it would be too late. To keep it real, I have never seen so many people under the influence of drugs in my entire life. I have never seen the population so afraid of what’s happening to them in my entire life – this of course, I am speaking of the U.S.

    Yes, I am angry at what’s happening in our country. I am angry that the big corporations are fighting to stop universal healthcare. At the same time I think our country is at a point of no-return. Some times I wonder why not just let the corporations run our country and just have limited gov – like onePres, one senator and one rep. I’m being sarcastic, but, think about it, if the corporations are making all the decisions.

    This makes me think of the late commedian George Carlin, he said something to the effect, "people think they have all these rights, well, if they can take them away, they were never rights, they were privileges."

     

     

  2. Anonymous says:

    So sad that McDinejad was the one "negotiating" for us. Sounds like he got nothing but bad news.

    Cayman needs new leadership.

    PPM and UDP spending sprees over the years put us in this mess. PPM’s 5-star schools, new roads, stadiums, etc all introduced massive up front and maintenance costs. UDP’s projects like Boatswain’s Bay is burning through cash.  

  3. Anonymous says:

    March 2008………………..

    Why did ACE choose to relocate. The answer seems to be in the ever-changing political winds.

     

    On a conference call, ACE Chairman and CEO Evan Greenberg > said Cayman was "incompatible with ACE as it stands today. The Cayman incorporation brings little to us, yet it exposes us from a reputational, financial and tax perspective. It creates unnecessary uncertainty."

     

    duhhhhhhh, didn’t anyone notice ?????????????????

     

     

  4. Lolly says:

    I am an expat.  I don’t mind paying some tax to help out.  I do think the burdenshould be evenly spread – as much to heal the divides that are so horribly obvious on these boards.

    But at the same time Mac should probably say these taxes are temporary and tell us all a fixed date for their review.  That way, if he keeps them in place, Caymanians can decided by the ballot box if they want the taxes to stay.

    For me I need to save money to make it worthwhile being here.  I can’t buy a house because the taxes and realtors fees are too high to ever consider it an investment.  And I can’t really invest in a local business because of the 60% rule.  No hard feelings on my part but I know I can’t.

    So a little increase in taxes and fees may only be a little increase, but it may start to tip the decision for a lot of people who live here to start to go back home.  And please don’t say "Good" and "See ya", workers like me keep three other people on the island in a job.  If I left their jobs would be in danger, people who work hard and do their best and whom I care about very much.

    Nothing is as black and white as posters on this board would like it to be.  There is so much anger on here, but revenge and petty tribalism will be the end of Cayman’s prosperity.  Yes I can fly home, but for those of you who consider this your home, good luck, but I fear what wil be ahead for you all.

    • Anonymous says:

      Lolly, I read your post, can sense that your words are genuine and while I agree with most of what you have said I think you need to understand the background to the divides that unfortunately now exist in this country.

      You said in your post, "workers like me keep three other people on the island in a job. If I left their jobs would be in danger, people who work hard and do their best and whom I care about very much".  My question to you is, "Are these workers that you refer to Caymanians?"

      You also said, "petty tribalism will be the end of Cayman’s prosperity".  The problem you see, from a Caymanian prospective, is that Cayman’s prosperity has been of little benefit to Caymanians; if it were otherwise our public coffers would not be empty today. So, our "petty tribalism" you see is about trying to claim our place and our share of what everyone else has benefited from in our country.

      • Anonymous says:

        I disagree, there are allot of ridiculously wealthy Caymanians and the majority in the well off bracket because of all this prosperity, to the point where you guys came across as arrogant 2 or 3 years ago. The reason your public coffers is empty is not because you did not benefit, it’s because your government squandered all the money

      • Gerald says:

        "Cayman’s prosperity has been of little benefit to Caymanians; if it were otherwise our public coffers would not be empty today"  I don’t think that adds up.  It is simply the source of revenue chosen by the governments over time does provide enought income today to meet needs. 

  5. Anonymous says:

    In defence of payroll tax

    I’d like to make a few points in response to the ranting and raving about the prospect of a payroll tax.

    1.  Stop saying that you can barely afford to live.  If you have cable TV, eat out four times a week and drive a car worth $10,000 or more (i.e. nearly everyone I’ve ever met in Cayman), you can evidently afford to live just fine.  Life isn’t about the things you own, it’s about experiences, memories, family, friends and community.  The best things in life are free and no tax will ever take them away.  You might have to wait a little longer to buy a new TV or purse or iPod.  So what.

    2.  Besides, any payroll tax introduced should have an earnings threshold beneath which you pay nothing.  Say CI$40,000.  The threshold should be increased for those with dependents.  This would help out single mothers and other hard-working carers.  The payroll tax shouldn’t make anyone destitute.  Stop trashing the idea and start thinking of solutions.

    3.  There already is a payroll tax on employers.  Calling it a [work permit] "fee" does not make it any less a tax.  The difference between a tax and a fee is that a fee covers the cost of the services received (e.g. a vehicle license fee). 

    4.  Why is everyone so feverishly opposed to a direct tax?  Indirect taxes are arbitrary and anomalous.  They are onlyloosely progressive.  Progressive, direct taxes are the only way for the cost of government services to be spread fairly across society at large that benefits from the services.  Why should the cost of the police force be covered by work permit fees?  Why should the cost of road repairs be covered by airport taxes?  Why should the cost of drug enforcement be paid for by the shareholders of overseas companies?  These are services to the public and ought to be paid for by the public.  I hope all you people railing against direct taxes try to buy a home in the next few years when stamp duty has increased by 5% because you didn’t want a direct tax.  The money has to come from somewhere. There is a reason the vast majority of countries in the world have direct taxes – they are fair and effective.

    5.  Without direct taxes to raise and lower there is no political accountability for public spending.  How about introducing a payroll tax only for those that voted PPM in the last election? 

    6.  Someone made a good point that income tax would be fairer because many wealthy retired residents enjoying services would escape the payroll tax.  This is a fair point, but an income tax would require a militant inland revenue service which would take several years and several million dollars to create.  In any case a) many of those retirees will have paid a great deal of tax in stamp duty and import duty over the years and b) lack of tax is probably the main reason they are in Cayman in the first place, taxing them may well scare them away permanently which would only harm the local economy further. 

    7.  For that reason I would advocate an annual property tax based on kerb-side frontage which would cover the cost of public road and infrastructure maintenance as well as some other public services related to property ownership (for example a contribution to the Police according to the amount of time they spend preventing or investigating property-related crime). Obviously this should be higher in more affluent areas, which should in turn be better maintained and policed. 

    8.  Stop saying a small payroll tax will increase staff turnover.  I’ve never heard anything so preposterous.  You’re saying that someone with a job in Cayman they have been perfectly happy with for years, will be so indignant at a 5% payroll tax they will quit their job to move "back home" (wherever that may be) during the worst recession for 70 years with record unemployment rates where if they are lucky enough to find a job they will most likely be taxed at 50%?  Riiiiiggghhhtt.

    9.  Stop saying taxes will creep upwards.  No political party that increases taxes needlessly will be re-elected.  If they are, then the public obviously likes the amenities and services the taxes have paid for.

    10.  Casinos – why not for heavens sake.  It seems the argument against it is mainly on some nebulous religious grounds even though a) there is no explicit condemnation of gambling in the bible and b) 8 of the Ten Commandments – sins which could scarcely be more explicitly condemned – are legal in Cayman and nobody is campaigning to criminalise them (the only two that are illegal are murder and theft, unless you count lying under oath as bearing false witness).  Social problems could easily be avoided by simply requiring a strictdress code (black tie) and high table minimum (I can’t see any dog city residents renting a tux and putting it all on red every Saturday morning).  This would help keep it exclusive and attract wealthy gamblers in their droves, whether foreign or domestic.

    • Lolly says:

      I have to say without trying to sound alarmist, but a 5% reduction in my salary together with the likely prospect of more tax increases in the future, has a fair chance of being the "tipping point" in me deciding to leave.  I doubt I will be alone.  It is also much more likely to be a deterrent in new people coming here, which is a more significant problem for the long term.

  6. Anonymous says:

    The G-20 meeting in the US has produced its first interesting suggestion. Powerful countries within the G20 are floating the idea of a financial transactions tax.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/25afd1d4-a905-11de-b8bd-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1

    Some might be tempted to say "what a good idea for Cayman to do as well" – which would be the bad idea. On the other hand others might see a ray of hope for Cayman which would occur if we do not impose such a tax. If as proposed this transaction tax is applied in the G20 but not outside, then there will be more business opportunities for Cayman – assuming no politician in Cayman messes it up. If Cayman screws this up then there will be even more reason for business to relocate out of Cayman.

    Just thought that I would offer a ray of distant hope in this otherwise bleak picture. Now where are we going to find a politician who will not screw things up?

     

  7. Anonymous says:

    If we are being forced to come up with taxation why dont we impose a small percentage income tax on our offshore corporations?

    The big issue with the OECD and G20 nations is that the reason these corporations are operating offshore is because they are not paying any taxes on their income.

    The tax agreements we have made with the OECD nations will most likely result in a mass exodus of these operations from our shores.

     So if we came up with a low rate income tax on the profits of our offshore corporations it would kill the argument that they are not paying any income taxes, and at the same time would save the companies the higher tax rate they will face if they moved their headquarters back to their home countries.

    Of course we might need to amend our tax treaties to avoid double taxation.

    If this is possible, we might appease the OECD, keep our offshore companies and increase our revenues base all in one solution.

     

    • Anonymous says:

      Not a good idea. Other jurisdictions, including some OECD countries, do not tax their offshore companies. The prospect that our companies will remain in Cayman paying tax that they would not have to in BVI or the Isle of Man or dozens of other places all for the weather and the chance to be jerked around by clueless politicians is somewhat remote. The only thing that will make Cayman’s OECD competitors happy is if we totally disappear.

    • Anonymous says:

      Because they have been issued with little certificates that say they will remain untaxed in Cayman for the next 50 years by the Government already

  8. Anonymous says:

    Tax people who have more than two cars per household that will bring in extra revenue, solve the traffic problem and good for the environment too.  They do something similar in Bermuda if you have more than one car.

    • Anonymous says:

      I see you been peeping in my garage.

    • Anonymous says:

      Cars are already taxed. No matter how many you have. If you want to keep them licenced and on the road you pay.

  9. Joe Average says:

    172 Comments.  Things really got stirred up with the mention of a payroll tax and it is.. a tax on income… so let’s just reverse thw wording and tell it like it is.  It seems there have been quite a few "proposals" put out there by the LOGB (that’s Leader of Government Business) and basically it looks as though he was flying them up the pole to see who would salute rather than giving any of them further examination beforehand. Criticisms of the LOGB stumbling around in the dark, or blindfolded trying to hit a pinata appear to be justified.  Just the same, I would not want to be in charge of this decision because it would not matter what you did….someone would cry foul. The issue of where we’re going to get the money has created all the above comments and more on CNS.  But most, if not all of the comments are coming from one segment of the population.  Average people.  Ok we’re not average we’re quite special.  And we’re talking amongst ourselves.  But where is the commentary and opinion from the financial sector? The other portion of the population not visible here.  Are they not concerned like the rest of us?  Or are they gathering in boardrooms, making long distance calls, and talking amongst themselves?  This crisis has been caused… because we got the word from Big Brother…or in this case Big Mother.  That we’re cut-off.  Unless we put together some kind of guaranteed and constant source of revenue.  The "T word" in other words.  Why are they not appearing to be as fearful of this as we are?  The silence is deafening.  But note….all of the proposals require taxing or imposing fees on residents.  And the latest one…a payroll tax…has been cleverly worded to exclude a tax on corporate profits.  As it is has been suggested it will not be a tax on earnings but drawn upon workers’ wages.  And we are not alone in this because like residents everywhere we are captive.  We have homes, jobs, and we live here.  With the push of a button or several most firms here can move their operations somewhere else.  "We don’t like your tax.  We are gone."  Be aware, I’m speaking of the differences between corporations and individuals.  The ironic part about it all is individuals everywhere are being asked to make sacrifices and alter THEIR lives in major ways when in fact it was large banking corporations that caused the problem.  Have they altered their lives…or lifestyles?  Not apparently.  Have taxes been imposed on their windfall profits and bonuses which they reaped from this disaster?  It doesn’t seem so. 

    So the question is and this doesn’t specifically apply to Cayman… where were governments everywhere looking as this financial disaster was in the making?    BEFORE……….as they now appear to be…..they looked to us? 

    Why haven’t they looked to the cause?  Why?  Because it was only a disaster for some.  For others it was like being given the keys to the treasury.  But not us.

    We only pay INTO the treasury.  We’re not allowed to take OUT OF the treasury.  That is saved for emergencies.

    I ask you who put the blindfolds on the people WE elected to take care of OUR economies and futures?  Or maybe they didn’t have blindfolds.  Maybe they just worked for someone else.  And we paid them.

    And   THAT   is a hard realization to come to.  But what conclusion can you arrive at?  When financial institutions that were of the verge of bankruptcy six months ago.  Are now making huge profits again and paying out bonuses?  And we’re being asked to dig a little deeper?

    Let’s talk amongst ourselves but I for one am not digging deeper.

    Dig?

    • Anonymous says:

      AYE JOE!  I dig you.  Brilliant post!  All over the world they arebeing quiet because they know that they are making money while everyone else is suffering.  And all over the world Governments are bailing them out and turning a blind eye.  In the Cayman context, everytime you ask them to contribute their fair share they threaten to pick up and leave and no Government has been brave enough to truly call their bluff.  But I agree with you 100%. Corporations are shielded, the poor man suffers.  If Government wants to make cuts then it needs to be forced to place the knife where it truly needs to go.

    • Anonymous says:

      I understand what you are saying but the economic reality is that corporations never pay tax. They always pass it on – either to customers or shareholders or if they become insolvent and cease to operate due to high taxes they pass any outstanding tax liabilities back to the government. They actually can contribute more to Cayman if we do not tax them but rather encourage them to spend money on buying goods and services that they require here. The LOGB has indicated that this is what he would like to do through encouraging businesses to build bricks and mortar assets here although unfortunately he has shown no understanding of how to do it.

  10. Anonymous says:

    Hello my name is ___________ and I am a CNS Addict.

     

    • Harry Butz says:

      Anon – you cannot expect to come to these meetings with a comment like that and no name…

      But like ganja to coke – CNS is only ashort step frombeing a Twatter…

    • Lachlan MacTavish says:

      My name is            Lachlan MacTavish         and CNS is a great source of Caymanian news.

      Congrats CNS 

  11. Anonymous says:

    what a mess.

    well im an ex pat and work for government, here are my ideas mac,

    im prepared to pay towards my health coverage, if you are introducing a tax then make it small and across the board, i mean across the board, ex pats caymanians etc etc ,a small percentage from our monthly wage is acceptable, be it 3, 4, 5% but include everyone mac  EVERYONE.

    then tighten our belts and put cayman back up there. im very proud to live here. we have massive problems so lets pull together and dig ourselves out of this mess made by miss management of funds by previous government.

    hansenguy@yahoo.co.uk

    • Anonymous says:

      Re Expat …..what a mess….

      good advise….complains are many >>>good advise few!

      I agree with the Expat…..

      …. I am a Caymanian

       

    • Harry Butz says:

      Glad to see you step up to paying health care.  Maybe you could scoop in some pension.

      Go down the tax road, and…

      Well, I have offered the service of my barrel on other posts, if you are ready to bend over it – cause your 3% today will be 40% within 10 years.

      I promise you.

      That road really is slippery…

      Makes the alcohol, ciggy, spliff, coke arguement look like a walk in the park…

  12. Lorrie says:

    The proposed tax, or any tax on Caymanians, is a very "poor" idea in every sense of the word.  Why should we make money available to people who do not know how to spend it?  A good Caymanian and a close friend of mine once told me "Any fool can money, but it takes a  wise person to know how to spend it?"  In my eyes, the Cayman Islands Government has always spent our money too foolishly.

    Essentially, what is being imposed upon us is if we do not have a tax, we are not going to be allowed to borrow money .  By the UK forcing taxes on the Cayman Islands, they are forcing the people of Cayman to become responsible for themselves.   What do you do with a child when you want to teach him the value of money? You give him an allowance.  The UK is giving us an allowance by telling us to tax ourselves.

    Who is going to suffer for the Government’s foolish spending of money? The Poor Caymanians.

    The Born Again Caymanian, who left Cayman when it was mosquito riddled and came when the country prospered should be compelled to be financially responsible for his or her island.  The people who own the vacant condos along Seven Mile Beach should should be compelled to be financially responsible to Cayman.  The Caymanian who chooses to abandon Caymanian in search of a better economic climate should also be compelled to be financially responsible if he leaves the islands.  The developers who are coming in and destroying my neighbourhood, the oldest neighbourhood on the island, should be compelled to be financially responsible.  These are just a few of the groups of people who should be taxed. Not the true hard working Caymanians.

    Mr. Bush says, he has a mortgage to pay like every other Caymanian.  He can get away with not paying his mortgage.  I, and many other poor Caymanians, don’t have that privilege.  Let us not forget the bank on the West Bay Road, or banks that went under.  You can not get a loan if you are not Caymanian or resident.  Who defaults and gets away with it? The Caymanians.  The residents loose their assets.

    We need to let the people of the Cayman Islands keep their own money, and the Cayman Islands needs a cruel lesson in money management.

    The Cayman Islands suffered a woeful disaster with Ivan. The economic crunch happened long before Ivan. We can not blame our circumstances on recent times it has been a steady downturn since 1990.

    Tourism can not be an industry. It relies too much on global economic strength. Educate the Caymanians.  Don’t encourage them to be taxi drivers.  Teach Caymanians the art of service and the techniques of business.  Then the prosperity will return.

    My words are harsh – Cayman is my home. But I’m heartbroken because my home is being destroyed by self-servicing entrepreneurs and not being protected by true Caymanians.

  13. Pastor Bucket says:

    Wake up Cayman

    Legalise Gambling – it’s already going on hugely here

    Legalise Weed – it’s already going on hugely here – and before any fools chastise me, consumption goes DOWN when legalised.

    Stop making Expats go abroad for a week/2 when their permits go through – let them spend $$ here!

    Legalise the RAMPANT prostitution we see going on in our bars

    Peace Be Unto You x

  14. Anne F. Shaw-Person says:

    Dear Client,

    I know that the last few years have lead you to wonder whether you should conduct new or existing business using Cayman as an offshore centre.  We appreciated your understanding when our experienced staff had to leave because they were, well too experienced to stay working here (I know it doesn’t amke sense to us either).  We were grateful that despite the ever increasing fees and costs of doing business here you have not left.  We were thankful that you did not mind us being closed a couple of business days a year on hurricane days.

    Well it is going to get worse.  The fees and costs are going up.  We are going to have to pass on additional costs to you, especially those linked to new taxes (or linked to increased wages needed to set off these taxes).  This is just the beginning.  We expect the costs to rise sharply.

    We are expecting staff turnover to increase sharply.  That expectation includes me.  I will be moving to [x] in the next few months.  [x] is cutting red tape, costs and encouraging investment.  While it is up to you, my suggestion is that you move your new business to [x] and start transferring existing business there too.

    While it has been nice working with you here, things have changed.  It is just too hard to provide good service with the hurdles put in the way to running a businessproperly here. 

    Let me know what you think about moving to [x].

    Yours sincerely

    Anne F. Shaw-Person

     

    • Anonymous says:

      Dear Mrs. Shaw-Person,

      Thank you for your most thoughtful and professional letter.  I noticed that you were careful to point out to me that [x] is cutting red tape, costs, and encouraging investment to entice business.  I also thank you for your advice to move my new and existing business to [x]. 

      Unfortunately, you seemed to use a template letter created by someone in your organization and forgot to actually inform me where [x] is.

      Therefore, as my own research has not revealed any locations that would become relatively better options for me than the Cayman Islands, even with the proposed increased cost of doing business, I would be most interested in finding out earliest the names of all of the [x]’s so that I can peruse these financial possibilities in a timely manner.

      Once I am able to analyze the options I will be in contact with you, or your replacement in due course.

      I know how easily Cayman Islands firms can replace existing staff, so I do expect that you will no longer be in employ to process my return correspondence. Thank you for your assistance throughout the past several months and good luck in your new endeavors in [x].

      Yours Sincerely,

      I. Smell B.S.

       

      • Anne F. Shaw-Person says:

        Well it depends what services I provide.  But fees of $2,000 a year to register a company, and to have that company registered by a firm that has a ton of payroll, work permit and property taxes foisted on it overnight, there are a lot of places that could be [x].

        • I. Smell B.S. says:

          Like where? I assume you are in the financial services industry so give me some examples of the services that you provide at your firm and how the fees being paid here relate to other countries that you compete with.  I admit I was being a bit facetious before, but now I am genuinely asking for an education.

          I obviously think that Cayman has a long way to go before the industry has to worry based on pricing.  I also see that everytime the industry has been asked to give Government $1 it has belly-ached and threatened to pick itself up and leave Cayman (and let’s not mention the whole world economic crisis being caused by poor ‘investment’ decisions) so it has in many ways become the boy that cried wolf.

          And by the way, I saw a report that basically said that Cayman Islands hedge funds were taking all of that toxic debt and repacking it to the benefit of the companies that no longer had to recognize it on their balance sheets. Could you (or any other financial services people) explain exactly what that is and what the risks are to our economy of us having all of the US’s toxic debt in our funds?

          • Anonymous says:

            Well let’s look at incorporation of a company – we will be over three times the costs of the BVI now.

      • Anonymous says:

         Hey, let me tell you something Mr. B.S. It is the expats that give you all these businesses to work at. So I wouldn’t be saying stupidness at this time. I’m sure that if a tax were imposed only for the expats every single business on that B.S. island would be gone. Think about it.

        • I. Smell B.S. says:

          ahhhhhh huh? oh boy, okay i can’t resist the temptation. No expat has ever given me a business to work at, but I have had a few try their best to not give me work.. which is hard to do because I have a secret weapon… come close.. shhhhh don’t tell anybody…. I am a qualified Caymanian.  Yes we exist!  In fact there are quite a few of us.. some of us… we own businesses.  Some of us actually have more than $5 in the bank, can you believe it, no? I know, it’s hard for me too.  As for expats being gone, let me introduce you to the law of ‘rational thinking’.  I, having a family, may be really upset at the Cayman Islands for introducing taxation* but I will think rationally, compare the rate to my own country and that of other countries that I would consider moving my family to, look at the overall economic picture in all of those countries – which will help me to determine my chances of getting a good paying job in those countries, and then make the best decision for my family, which in my humble estimation will be to remain here.

          * I don’t necessarily favour income tax, I just don’t think that the argument that is being put forward here is a strong one.  I stand to be corrected.

          By the way, for the record, information was given saying that in other countries the community enhancement fee is only charged to expats.  That was a statement of fact, not a suggestion.  Also, Mr. Bush as far as I know has not suggested that it only apply to expats, he has said that it will be for every one resident in the country, which inlcudes Caymanians.

          Finally, for your statement to be true, every business in the island would first have to be owned by expa… wait a minute, do you even live here?  have you lived here? or are you getting your CI information from hollywood?

          • Stella says:

            At least we will have other countries to go to when then one is burned out in a few years time.  ’til then I will take what I can.

            • anonymous says:

              Wow, Stella, that was an incredibly disrespectful thing to have said.   I hope you don’t mean this.  I am an expatriate, and am stunned that anyone would approach the world so callously.  To the Caymanians who might be reading, I’m sorry you had to see that.  

              • Anon says:

                Yep, it’s the nasty narrow minded people like Stella that keeps fueling this expat vs. Caymanian war. Nasty little critter she is………..And they want to call us true blooded Caymanians bigots when we get up in arms about the way expats treat us in our own Country.

          • Gerald says:

            "which in my humble estimation" well that made me laugh.  Tell us another.

            My business is hampered every day paying that famous tax – support your qualified Caymanian.  It costs us a fortune it does.  From the secretary who just doesn’tdo her job but we can’t get rid of because her husband works in immigration or she is married to/related to someone or other up to the manager we had to promoted because, while they were terrible, they were a qualified Caymanian and boy did they let us know it.  Yes there are great Caymanians, but they are more than outweighed by the deadweight around where I work.  I am sorry to have to say this, especially to the great Caymanian colleagues I have, but honestly my business would be more profitable if it was all expat labour.  So I consider the need to hire "qualified Caymanians" over the best staff available a substantial business tax.

             

            • Anonymous says:

              Gerald your last sentence reveals your prejudice.  I have read a number of your posts and let me tell you something you are not fooling anyone.  You are the typical ‘bad’ expat that continues to ruin it for other expats and exist only to cause strife, spew anger and hostility and prevent peace.  Yes youare now throwing in phrases like ‘great Caymanian colleagues’ but your last sentence shows that at the end of the day you believe that the best Caymanian will never be the most qualified person for the job.  You believe that we just aren’t good enough to sit in the top seat.  This of course is folly.

              Gerald let me tell you who you are.  5 minutes after you stepped off the plane you had already decided (like many other poeple) that you wanted to live here for the rest of your life.  2 days later you were amazed at how well the natives live compared to people where you come from.  That’s when the problem started.  You viewed yourself as being inferior to the natives but you couldn’t handle that becuase you had spent a lifetime building up prejudices and came here with certain assumptions that you could no longer hold on to without somehow recreating your image in your own mind.  So you started to immediately tell yourself that you are better than the natives.  Then you made sure to hold on to every bad memory of a Caymanian and ignore every good one, to help you fuel your purposely concocted delusion.

              So by day 15 you were out and about convincing anyone that you could that the natives are beneath you, don’t know what they are doing, are incapable of being the best at anything, really don’t even deserve to be here, and of course, had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you fell in love with this place 5 minutes after you landed (by the way, that’s not really to our credit, that is the glory of God shining and working through us because we still have remnants of being a Christian nation).

              The fact is Gerald, you are bitter.  You are not the first and you won’t be the last.  You speak of Caymanians in your office etc.  Well Gerald I could spend all night speaking of the atrocious way Caymanians are being treated right now all over this country, yes qualified Caymanians.  But you know what, most of those stories don’t get talked about because we know that if the board of directors was to find out that we had spoken of the things that happened to us, we would be out of the door, not right away, but over a few months after a clever plan had been hatched and implemented.  I am not going to try to convince you of these things, you believe what you want.

              And that is the conclusion of my letter to you Gerald.  You come with absolutely no positivity.  You cannot believe that you had to come here to have the best quality of life and best salary that you ever had, and you don’t want to leave because you will never be able to duplicate this anywhere else in the world.  But you have no appreciation for the people of the country.  I know you will want to make some snide comeback.  Go ahead.  I am not interested in the ego game that goes on on CNS.  I am only interested in your eyes reading these words and your conscience admitting to itself that these words are truth.  And I hope that you remember these words every time you look at yourself in the mirror, because Gerald, I want you to change.  I want you to be convicted and ashamed of the way that you have been behaving, because Gerald you are unhappy, and I want you to be satisfied with who you are so that you can finally gain an understanding of who we are.

        • Anonymous says:

          Typical example of expat tunnel vision! You would like to think that all businesses here are expat owned but I am happy to inform you that you are wrong. Furthermore there are several wholly owned and well run Caymanian businesses in these Islands.

          For your information The Trade and Business Licensing Law requires a 60/40 ownership –  60% represents the Caymanian shareholding.  There are but few businesses owned solely by foreigners which requires approval under the Local Companies Control Law. 

          • The Artist Formerly Known as Bill says:

            The fact that the Trade and Business Licensing Law requires a 60/40 ownership in favour of the Caymanian IS THE REASON most businesses in Cayman are local.  A foreigner would have to be NUTS to build a business in a jurisdiction where he has to gift half of it (along with control of the Board of Directors) to a stranger simply because they were Caymanian and he wasn’t.

            This looks to be becoming awelfare state, but don’t look to the foreign investors to come build a business here on these terms to fund the public service "safey net".

    • Anonymous says:

      Actually to charge commuity enhancement fee to the expat population only is done in other countries.

      • Nonnie Mouse says:

        Countries which do not have a binding human rights obligation not to discriminate on the basis of nationality maybe.  An expat only tax would result in a law suit for the recovery of every cent taken in tax – which would bankrupt the islands.

        • Anonymous says:

          I disagree, human rights legislation and constitutions with bills of rights do not recognize absolute equal treatment.  If they did no country having them could operate immigration policies for example.  The test is justifiable different treatment and other countries have found the justification.

          • Anonymous says:

            Different taxation of residents on account of nationality is prima facie illegal.  As far as Cayman is concerned immigration is not directly covered by the UK’s rights obligations.

            • Anonymous says:

              What is the basis for comment? Section 16 of the new Constitution says that the prohibition against discrimination does not apply to "any law so far as that law makes provision…for the appropriation of revenues or other funds of the Cayman Islands or for the imposition of taxation (including the levying of fees for the grants of licences)". Clearly, all these provisions were considered by the FCO to be consistent with the UK’s human rights obligations.  

  15. Anonymous says:

    Heh – Can we stop blaming McKeeva or anyone else, and realize that there is a problem, and that we need a solution? We don’t even know what what the proposal is yet and I see lots of complainign about it. I believe that if we work together – Caymanians and foreignworkers – and there’s a lot on both sides that do care – we can get through this.  We need to come together, each do our part, and bring Cayman back to it’s rightful place as a leader in the world of caring people, hospitality, financial leadership and environmental stewardship. It’s not a perfect world, no country is, but can we bring back a little peace and love to thy neighbour? God knows, we all need it!

  16. Anonymous says:

    As you know, we have been opposed to property and income taxes but the community fee has been an idea that has never been ruled out.

    Can somebody tell me what the difference is between "payroll tax" and income tax?  Because as a former income tax payer, they lookin pretty much the same to me 🙁

    • Anonymous says:

      Payroll tax is only looking at your pay-check. Income tax looks at your interest earned on bonds or term-deposits, dividends, rental income, royalties etc.

      • I. Smell B.S. says:

        I thought payroll tax is one that is levied on the employer and income tax is levied on the employee’s earnings (and can include the other items you mentioned if the law is written that way)????

  17. Anonymous says:

    McDinejad….Lmao !!!

  18. Anonymous says:

    Travers needs to be sent into battle , he really is this islands only hope as I really feel the Govt and Mac are way out of their depth.

    With regards the FCO Travers is more than a match for them  

  19. Anonymous says:

    We clearly need someone like Tony Travers to take up the fight on CIG behalf with the UK Govt. It is unfortunate that Mac hasnt officially given Mr Travers the go ahead to go into battle


    Yes he is an expat however he is a true Caymanian – he has stood up and fought for our cause since the start and he isnt doing it for money . 

     

    • Anonymous says:

      You’d be surprised but there quite  a few expats who are 100% committied to getting this country out of the financial crisis and seeing the country and ALL its people do well. We have a life here, investments, property, friends, hobbies. We’re not all here to rape and pillage and fleece the hard working Caymanians out of their livelihood, like some like to think.

      McKeeva has little understanding of the economy and how it works. He is a bit of a lone ranger when he’s got plenty of good business people (caymanians and expats) that he should be listening to for ideas on how to solve the crisis without changing the whole concept of the Cayman Islands which is its yax free status.

      • da wa ya get says:

        I like you 🙂

        • Anonymous says:

          Yea, I like you too! 🙂  Good post – you are someone I welcometo my Island to live amongst us. Too bad others cannot be likeminded …. we would suffer much less disharmony.

      • Anonymous says:

        You have just spoken the sentiments of so so many!!!

      • Ex Pat says:

        Thank you.  My sentiments exactly.

        And there’s plenty that can be done without resorting to such drastic measures. 

      • Geordie Sam says:

        Come to Cayman – it’s free of Yaks! We’ve got a couple of cows and horses but definately no Yaks and we’re keen to maintain its Yaks-free status.

        We’ve quite a few non-smurkin’ areas I could tell you about too……….. 🙂

      • 8th Generation Caymanian says:

        Thank you. We really need to hear comments like that. Please let us hear your suggestions. This could mark a new and better chapter in Caymanian/expat relations.

    • Anonymous says:

      And the sky is red.  Do not kid yourselves, Travers is only looking after his own interests. It has little to do with his love for Cayman or of him being a "true Caymanian", whatever that means.

      • Anonymous says:

        I dont care if Travers is looking outfor his own interests  – He seems to be the only one able to challenge ,debate and get medias attention and as a result may be able to save cayman. 

        No wonder the FCO are dragging their heels  I dread to think what faux pas Mac said to them when meeting them – 

         

  20. Anonymous says:

    Mac – would you please give up on placing this mess squarely on the shoulders of the PPM??!! are you trying to confirm to us that you have no clue what’s going on??! even the dumbest of us these days are aware that the entire world is in financial crisis! what da hell??!! you sound like a damn broken record and it’s making some of us real sick! If you actually believe the issues we are currently facing are the fault of the PPM then you are really more clueless than i thought….Jesus help us!! And please hush with your ‘..its no time to point fingers..’ while in the same breath pointing your fingers directly at PPM….wish someone in the UDP executive could really control this man….unfortunately that ain’t gonna happen so we will have four years of embarassing leadership!! Rollie – whey da hell you is? anyways…da wha unna get….hope unna can take it now dat unna got it….

    • Anonymous says:

      Those of us who voted UDP are thankful that we did – another four year of PPM rule would have totally destroyed this island.  Anyone spewing dislike of the UDO just don’t want to face up to the mess the PPM has the country in.  They should be barred from ever running in a general election again.

    • da wa ya get says:

      Agreed. Too bad that we ALL have to take it…

  21. Anonymous says:

    Hahahahahahaha, that’s funny!

    Now what are we really going to do about the FCO screwing us over again!

  22. A REALIST says:

    Nomad.

    Dont be dumb. As YOU stated, "No taxation without representation."

    Can you clarify the TAXES we pay to Britain to warrant REPRESENTATION in the British Parliament?

  23. Anonymouse says:

    5% Sales Tax = $90 Million

    A 5% Sales Tax on all goods and services sold in Cayman would bring in between CI$80 and 100 million a year and there would be no cost of collection, since the vendors of the goods and services collect the tax and pay the government directly. Similar taxes, also called VAT in some countries exist worldwide and often reach 20%…

    But, first the Civil Service FAT must be cut, which would save CI$118 million and practically make the sales tax redundant…

    – Save us $30 million by making the Civil Servants, paid half of their  medical and pension contribution, like everyone else…

    – Save us another $35 million by cutting Civil Servants pay by 10% – everybody else is tightening their belts, so why not them?…

    – Save us another $53 million by cutting down by 15% the number of Civil Servants…

    All told, if Civil Servants started acting like normal citizens, instead of hiding behind the ONLY UNION existing in Cayman solely to defend their bloated paychecks and benefits while the rest of the population is suffering during a period of DEFLATION, they could save us: $30 + $35 + $53 = $118 million and balance the budget in one fell swoop…

     

    • Anonymous says:

      First of all your logic and math is all screwed up. I won’t bother telling you how, look at the budget then look at an economics text book and figure it out yourself, but if you are going to use numbers they should be real and not made up as you go along.

      Second of all Cayman has had unions for years.  most notably are the Banker’s Association, Chamber of Commerce, Insurance Companies association etc.  The difference is they are unions that represent the owners.  There is no representation of the workers (which I assume you are one) in this country except the civil service association, and one or two smaller ones in highly specialized fields.  What you all don’t realize is that if the civil service associaiton caves in then you all will directly suffer as well.  I know that you will say that many of you are suffering now under pay cuts, reduced time etc.  but what do you think will happen when Govt gives its employees a pay cut?  Do you not realize that your bosses are just waiting for that to happen so they can give you one too.. not because they need to, because they want to.  Government sets the pace in Cayman, after that it is monkey-see monkey-do.  Don’t believe me.. lets wait and see.

      Third, if you are still upset then read over my second point and realize that what you should be doing is creating associations of your own, invite the civil service association to meet with you and take the power out of the hands of your bosses who are praying that you don’t realize that that is exactly what you should do.  Stop beating up on our representation, join us won’t you!

      Fourth, there are 4000 civil servants, are all those pay checks bloated?  you all need to stop believing the rhetoric.  civil service paychecks are not bloated, most and i stress most, civil service jobs are paid less than the private sector, which is why we have the pension and medical thrown in, as incentive.

      • Anonymouse says:

        The figures used are from 2008-09 budget…

        If you have something different, let’s have it, but Civil Service salaries and perks represents at least 54% of total government expenditures …

        As it is, the Civil Service is sucking the blood out of the rest of the residents here: 4000 people are holding to ransom 55,000 residents, simply because they are better organized, UNION style.

        While I am not privvy to the contracts governing the relationship between the government and its employees, should the government invoke "Force Majeure" and decide to cut your bloated salaries by 10% and make you pay your fair share of health and pension contribution, I guess there is little your UNION could do about it, except STRIKE, of course…

        If you don’t like it, you can always join the private sector – if you can find a job at 2/3 the amount you’re currently earning – and see for yourself how the underprivileged are living.

        20 years ago, the incentives you received may have been justified, but your salaries have now more than caught up with the private sector and the Civil Service should be subject to the same earnings pain as the rest of the Cayman  population who is generally earning less than 12 or 18 months ago. 

        But, I fully know that the egoism displayed by the Civil Service and the MLA’s and ministers will never allow them to give anything back: it’s take, take, TAKE and drive the islands into the ground in the same GREEDY process… 

        You and your colleagues all the way to the top, form a parasitic privileged caste that I find truly disgusting!…

      • Harry Butz says:

        Clearly you have no clue – if you think an association is a union, then I have a three wheeled trike you might want to buy and call a car…

        Get real.

        And as for civil servant being paid lessthan the private sector, you are probably right.

        I have worked both sides.

        And don’t you think I got a hard on when my civil servant boss offered to get me a full day of overtime if I came in for 2 hours on a Sunday.

        I was young, but now I see there are SO MANY HOLES in the Government system that are open to abuse.   This is not Mini-Mac’s fault, it is not the PeePeeMovement, it is the indoctrinated culture of expectation.

        I promise you, give me a day in ANY goverment department, and I will find a way to save.

        And if you put me in Customs for a week, I will PROMISE you a 5% increase in revenue.  I do not know what government brings in through Customs, but I promise I can make a difference…

         

    • Anonymous says:

      Finally  The one good idea.  Actually solve the problem andnot just throw more money at it.

      ,

  24. Sir Henry Morgan says:

    Legalize gambaling and tax casinos profits!

     

    Poor people fedup!

    • Anonymous says:

      sorry church won’t let us grownn adults make up our minds about these things or like sunday trading, drinking after midnight on sat ………zzzzzz

       

  25. Anonymous says:

    So let me break this down. We already pay 20% duty, 5% pension, proposed 2% extra duty, and now 2.5% payroll tax…thats 29.5%! So much for living in a tax ‘free’ country!

    On another note, how can they call it a ‘community enhancement fee’ for expats only? If expats are only limited to live here for 7 years!

  26. Bob Foster says:

    Anyone else see the huge number of suitcases now on sale at Priced Right? Looks like some are preparing for the exodus already

  27. Albert Jackson says:

    He has to cut government workers as well. There is no way around it. our country must correct it self with extream measurers. It has to be now.

                                 Albert Jackson

    • Anonymous says:

      You have it correct Albert……..Government is TOO BIG and they are in competition with the private sector!  They must downsize, get more efficient and eliminate any departments that perform work that the private sector has representation (i.e. NRA).  Government should only provide essential services and not get in the way of local businesses! 

      • Anonymous says:

        Albert,  You have hit the nail on the head!  A low tax country can never survive with a massive civil service, that should be obvious. For every working Govt employee there is one doing little or nothing.  There are many government services that could be turned over to the private sector.  It is essential this is done, and quickly. 

      • anonymous says:

        Agree with Albert. Government workers should also have to pay

        half of their pensions and medical premiums  same as everyone else. Would

        save government millions.

        Taxes on payroll would make much hardship for a lot of Caymanians.

        Taxes on expat workers would not be a good thing for tourism either.

    • Anonymous says:

      Any truth to the marl-road rumour that 29 PWD workers are being laid off, along with all the department CFOs in Government who have never performed on the job?

      Sounds like a good start to me!

      • Cool and Nice says:

        Hey, I think four of those guys came to clean my a/c filter the other day. Trouble is, they were all Caymanian. Guess their bloated salaries and benefits must have added up to more than what we can now expect to be needed to add to next years Social Services budget.

        Anyway, thanks guys for all your help, I guess next time the little light comes on ill just have to wash that filter off myself.

  28. Anonymous says:

    Financial Secretary????

    Questions anyone? Where these records hidden and was he waiting on the right time to release such debt?

    I understand that the world is facing an economic crisis, but shouldn’t these records have come to light before the country’s debts accumulated to over 300 mil?

    Why have we not seen or provided  an overview with of the budget the government provided to the UK? The plan should be revised by experts outside of the government, as it is clear, they are not forthright with the truth.

    I have a feeling that there are a lot more taxes which will be imposed and they will not be released until something is signed and we cannot do anything about it!!

     

  29. Anonymous says:

    that would be wonderfull if they leave

  30. Anonymous says:

    With the idea of taxtation on expats only it is clear to see that Chris Bryant does not intend to hurt the Caymanians..but as the expat lover that Mac is he won’t tax only the expats and leave the Caymanians out..that would be too nice of Mr. Bush!

    • Anonymous says:








      Where exactly does it say it was Chris Bryant idea to tax expats only?

       

      Leave the Caymanians out? It’s your country and not the Expats, why should only expat be taxed to pay for your government expresses and your new schools that their children can’t attend?

       

      That’s like saying hey come to our islands with your investments, where the cost of living is very high, you have no rights, you will be taxed to pay for our way of life (We “Caymanains sit back and do nothing but expect everything”)

       

      Let’s say if that did happen and the majority of the expats leave and the revenue generated by taxing them only goes down, what next? Raise the taxes on the ones left?

       

      There is a reason they said we need sustainable income, not stupid ideas that will not work in the end, how much expats you expect to remain here of its only them paying taxes? I guess you missed the commence sense boat.

  31. Anonymous says:

    What about this – why don’t our beloved leaders get on the blower to Mr Dart and ask whether Mr Dart would do the same for Cayman as he did for Argentina – ie buy out the national debt.  This wouldn’t be borrowing so wouldn’t need the UK’s permission.  Job done!

    • I can't believe the BS from some... says:

      I can’t believe you’re really suggesting that over a the proposed "tax". Comments like the one you just made is actually what this government would like us, who they think is the naive public, to think is better. Go ask an Argentinian what they think of what happened to them, or better yet, while your on this go google in the next tab Argentina and Dart and READ. Then come back and post something that actually makes sense.

  32. Nomad says:

    No Taxation with Representation

     

    All the British British Overseas Territories should demand representation in the UK Parliament. In the year 2009 and we are ruled as a colonial possession of the Queen? With no representation?

     

    And why are we under the FCO?Foreign and Commonwealth Office  (FCO)? We should fall under the Home office.

     

    Nomad

    • Anonymous says:

      Sure, get representation in the English (not UK) parliament and all that goes with it, a minimum income tax of 20% for everyone, whatever nationality, rising to 40% on income over 40K; a community charge on property; National Insurance contributions of minimum of 10% of salary.  Do you really want that?  Get real please. 

      Cayman should think itself lucky that Caymanians are eligible for a British passport already without having to contribute anything more than the fee.  And did you know that any Caymanian student that wants to study in an English university only has to pay home fees instead of the exhorbitant overseas fees charged to students who aren’t from "colonial possessions"?   

  33. Anonymous says:

    That what you get, I told you Mac would fix the Cayman Islands… Good grief, I can really move to the states now and take what little investment I have on this rock.

  34. Anonymous says:

    Um… Who is going to collect and administer any direct taxation?  Would that not require a whole new Department(s) of Government, and more costs?  And how efficient will they be?  Government does not seem able to effectively collect the fees they already levy, never mind new ones. 

    At least if they just increase some current fees they already have the mechanics in place to collect the additional revenue (in theory at least).

  35. Bye Bye UK says:

    INDEPENDENCE- SURELY NOW!

    If we do not consider Independence now we need to have our heads examined. It is clear that the UK is not looking after the good of the Cayman Islands…here is the final proof..

    Our forefathers would be turning in their graves… especially MR Ormand Panton! He would be at the Glass House steps already-sign in hand. Where are you Caymanians that will stand up?? Why are you so quiet?? Do you think you are somehow different from the rest and this is not going to affect you?? Are you now on a rudderless boat altogether heading for the waterfall?? The Expats can leave- where will you go??

    THINK and Make a Stand!!

    • Anonymous says:

      I’m sorry, I’m not sure I understand… make a stand for what??

      I might be missing something here but as I see it the UK are proposing an idea to implement tax and have, above all, the ‘high rollers’ here pay a little out of their fat payckecks for the good of, and hand some back to,…Cayman?

      I’m sure you also have very good reasons why this is all the ‘ex-pats’ fault too?? How else is Cayman to finacially sustain itself and it’s spending?

    • Anonymous says:

      caymanian politicians have just bankrupted the country in 4years….. and now you want to go independent and give them more control??????

       

    • Anonymous says:

      We have no army!

      We have no border control by sea!

      We have no other major industry, but tourism and banking!

      We are outnumbered; we have more foreignors here than Caymanians!

      We don’t have our own electrical plant – CUC run things!

      If there is a natural disaster or war breaks out in the world, where will we get garanteed help?  Presently, the UK is our protectorate!  Historically, Castro one time attempted to invade the Cayman Islands. If it was not for the Queen, Cayman would have been easily invaded!

      Look at history:  We would have been a part of communist cuba or a reduced to a Jamaican district. They may call us chickens under the UK’s wings, but we are not stupid! Cayman has many enemies!

      We don’t have oil and enough cargo ships to trade with other nations!

      We don’t have enough educated people to run all of our operations; we need foreignors to assist us!

      We don’t even have our own welfare state; where will the poor go when the government fails and tax everyone!

      SIR… DO NOT LET "CAYMANIAN PRIDE" RUIN US. WE ARE VERY FRAGILE AND SMALL!  The Bible says, PRIDE COMES BEFORE DESTRUCTION. WE NEED TO WORK WITH WHAT WE HAVE; WE NEED TO WORK ONE-ON-ONE WITH THE FCO – not severe our ties with the UK

      Peace 

       

      • anonymous says:

        Like it or not Cayman is on the road to independence, we are a burden to England, Cayman is not the 18th century Jamaica or Barbados that provided wealth for them.It’s time to get prepared for the writing is on the wall,ladies and gentlemen independence for the cayman Islands is inevitable!!!

  36. Anonymous says:

    Could it be that Mac’s rush to bring in this direct tax by the end of the week is to ensure that he has taxpayer money to pay the hundred’s of thousands of dollars that are needed to pay for his inaugeration party? That seems to be the only explanation that people are coming up with as the government is reported to have large cash "reserves" that they keep downplaying. Just asking – in the current panic that actually seems believable.

    • Anonymous says:

      You are obviously out of the loop from what the rest of us have heard on the radio or other media.  The inauguration is almost entirely paid for by private funds, not government’s.  They sold all tables at the function at a about a thousand dollars a seat and all sold out.  Take that!

  37. Anonymous says:

    It’s so funny how McKeeva and his supporters continue to blame the islands’ financial distress on the previous PPM administration.  I don’t know if anyone has noticed but this is a GLOBAL recession and every other country is/was just as broke as we are.  Thus the reason the U.S. owes over 44% (approx. $772 billion) of its debt to China.  Blame the PPM administration all you want, you must be brain dead if you don’t know this.  Watch the news, read the newspapers (other than the local Cayman newspapers & news stations) and you might learn something!!!!!

     

     

    • Anonymous says:

      And you might add how he set up government companies like the trurtle farm to move from making a profit toloosing $10 million a year.

      He like the PPM gave developers all kinds of breaks while we have to pay for the roads airports hospital etc. etc. etc.  and all the while he made the real estate commission.  Conflict in him having an interest to earn money for himself, but who cares, they are scarred of him XXXX.

    • Anonymous says:

      Oh yeah right!!! This is a GLOBAL recession !!!! and everyone is in the same mess…. Sounds to me, like you have been reading and watching all the wrong media.

      There is no way, anyone with any amount of white blood cells in their brain, is going to let the PPM off with the statement that " hey its global, we didnt see it coming" ? Its complete nonsense, and the people aint wearing it.

      The facts are that the PPM incorporated " Robert Mugabee" style immigration reforms on the Cayman Islands, and it is now clearly evident they also adopted " Robert Mugabee" style economics.

      Any one with a brain in this world, new this recession was coming!!!! You could smell it in the air in 2007. Instead of repairing the roof while the sun shined, and preparing for the storm, McLaughlin thought he could committ the islands to huge capital infrastructure projects, not realising the PPM damage with the "ROLLOVER" policy was eventually going to come back and bite him in the shape of dollars and cents. Complete fiscal mismanagement……( where did he think all the millions of dollars in the government coffers, came from???)

      The PPM, should not only resign, they should be publicly disgraced, and legally banned from ever standing for re-election.

  38. Caymanians for long range Planning says:

    This is clearly not a thought out Idea.

    No one has assessed the COST of bringing such a system in place and the lost of employees from Cayman, both will likely reduce the revenue significantly…thus it is clear that this is just a UK ploy to destroy the Cayman Islands.

    And UDPers and PPMers….stop the nonsense…you both will be taxed by the British! do not let the UK use you in their “divide and conquer scheme”–pure British colonialism and it surely works.

    GET UP and SAY NO!!!

    • Anonymous says:

      There u go Ms would be politician.They have rejected u once before,and do any hae any thing else to do but write letters and will not show ur face. Could u tell us why u were fired from your job , because of drug use? Hah , do u think some one will elect u to office? u gotta be dreaming!!

      A towner wid East End connections

  39. Default says:

    Let’s just default on all our debt’s and let the UK pick up the tab…It seems as if we are holding a bigger stick then we think but just don’t know…Same concept the guys on Wall Street used..They knew all along that if they go down the whole system goes down…I say we default and let the UK pay for the debt…everything is here already the money is here already the investments have been made we don’t need anything more we got it all the money will run away but it will come back (if you build it they will come) and we will have less to support as a country so the tourist dollars that will return in 2-3 years will be split amongst a smaller population of loyal people.  The finance industry may very well disappear by itself anyways so no need to hang on the the coattails destorying what our way of life…so just let it go… let it go.. no civil courts, no gazette publishing demand notices on anyone house the banks loose and we the debtors win.  Oh yeah, why don’t we open up the pension funds as well so cash can flood the local economy and our people can buy houses and apartments in Florida and make investments overseas so that we can prepare for the crash of 2009/ 2010…Its that simple, shut it down..shut it down..everyone Caymanian has the ability to get a UK passport so if they find life to hard they can go suck benefits out of the UK or work whatever they choose.  Of course, we still need to pay police and chances are the governor will step in with a request for British Military so we can let the police go too…this is our neg point I beg them to counter!  If we tire of their decisions we can let them go too and they can keep the debt we will keep our nice Island..Yes nice Island cause it is our home and we love it and we are not going to foresake her although we might leave we will send our money home and build up ours because itis ours.  We are so much like Jamaicans it is a wonder why we hate them…have you ever wondered why a woman hates it when a woman looks like her or even wears the same clothes..same principal….anyways we have pride and we are proud!  Caymanians stand by your country for better and for worse.  Remeber after Ivan when the country did not function for a couple of days or weeks we survived did we not…We shut this down now and survive again and a few things will stay open but most will need to close..We can help each other put out any fire we can help each other the way we use too we will show the world how a place can function in the aftermath we will give them a preview of what their destiny is but we will recover because our ship is smaller and more nible and from what I hear we will be parting with some cargo as the winds pick up and the seas get rough..

    • N. Syder says:

      Let’s hope the solution to the current economic woes take a more sensible track than you suggest.

      Allowing the UK to pay the debts of Cayman is as good as giving Cayman away. Do you think the UK will bail the country out without taking substantially more than a pound of flesh??

  40. Anonymous says:

    Yet another woe is me story from Caymanians.  Why should work permit holders pay for the mess you all have gotten yourselves in to.  Work permit holders get zero benefits from the government yet are expected to pay and support Caymanians!  Time for all expats to get your CV’s out and leave this one horse town.

  41. WHAT!!!  PAYROLL TAX!!!

    The difference between government and thievery is mostly a matter of legality!

    This compulsory and enforced legal system is theft. I don’t care if the United States and the UK has such a system, levying taxes via force and coercive is downright theft. I can’t believe the leader of government business, has suggested to us that we go down this route of no return!  What do you think will happen to our future generations, if our government starts aggressively increasing taxes on our payroll… Tell me, for those who want taxation, do you seriously think, at that time, the average Caymanian voice would be heard? I think not!!!  Our democracy will be like the United States or United Kingdom – corrupt! And what bothers me in all of this, the people of Cayman has no say! The FCO makes all the decisions for us without consulting how we feel about the issue! The law-enforcement will crack down on those who are refusing to pay. Think of the money now that has to be spent to ensure this tax is paid by 50,000 people!  

    I think that there is a better way for us other than taxation… Let’s focus on making money, instead of taking money away from people who work hard. This will surely kill the incentive to want to aspire and be successful in the Cayman Islands.

    Peace

  42. Anonymous says:

    LOTTERY IS THE ANSWER!  How many people do you think will leave these islands and go home if there is a payroll tax.  yeah, that’s the answer.  if i wanted to pay taxed I will just go back to my homeland!  that’s really going to stimulate the economy when everyone moves out of their rented apartments and homes and takes ALL of their money elsewhere!  NICE GOING MAC!

    • Anonymous says:

      Agreed – particularly as my homeland is considering (upon my return) taxing me on what I earn here, and if they introduced that it would mean I was being double-taxed – if I’m gonna have to pay taxes here you can be damn right I may as well go home and pay taxes there, and I am definitely not staying if there’s a chance I am going to have to pay tax twice for the same thing.  I work in the financial industry (which accounts for around 60% of government income according to news reports on-island) and most of my counterparts feel the same way – so hello taxation, goodbye financial industry!

      There are so many other ways the government could generate income without frightening away those that already make a major contribution to government finances.  It follows that if that happens – the government is going to end up in a worse financial pickle than they are already in.  Mac should stop listening and not give in to the UK’s demands – they are not Caymanian – they have no clue what is good for Cayman they only have their own (hidden) agenda in mind.

    • noname says:

      Just like every other worker on this island, whether you leave by plane or boat.  Life goes on and you will be replaced by someone else who will be more than willing to pay taxes to the country who has welcomed them with open arms and provided them with a good-paying job and lots of benefits that are not currently available to you in your own country.  After all, if your country was so great, then why are you here?  I’m sure a pay-roll tax won’t cause a stampede of expats leaving the island.  Get REAL!!!

      • Anonymous says:

        You’ve got to bear in mind that salaries are higher and cost of living is much lower in the US and UK and everywhere else that expats flock here from. The incentive is that they don’t get taxed meaning for most they are better off. They put up with being second class citizens and subsidizing the Caymanians to live lives of crime for this.

        Once that tax benefit is taken away they will no longer be better off and will go and work somewhere else. They all rent houses because of the rollover and stamp duty, so thousands of caymanians will be left with empty houses that are worthless and worse still they will have lost their jobs as the financial services companies move overseas as they cannot find skilled staff here.

        The industries you are left with are growing bananas and making rope. None of which is going to give you the lisfestyle that expatriate labour has provided for you.

        So you need to get real and pull your head out of your ass.

        • Anonymous says:

          When will you bigoted and self-congratulatory expats realise that YOU DID NOT BUILD CAYMAN.

          CAYMANIANS DID. It is OUR COUNTRY – although you’d never believe it to look around you today.

          You were merely here for what you could get. And you got it – lots of money to send home, nice weather, and the joy of lording it over the natives.

          Yes you worked – but you got compensated handsomely for it. So shut the @#$% up and quit your sniveling.

          If you want to gome home – please GO AHEAD. Wherever you came from is just as broke as Cayman right now, so as soon as you leave, there will be another one right behind you to take your place in the sunshine.

          So long, and good riddance to bad rubbish.

          • McGreedy says:

            Fine, you built it. Then you sold it to us.

            Thanks

            • WB says:

              I am tired of hearing about who built what and how we would perish without the expat…Fact of the matter remains we paid the expat to build the roof, just like we pay the expat in the pretty office.  None of it was free.  Alot of expats and Caymanians alike did well through this Country when the economy was booming.

              NEW FLASH:  We three small little islands.  Are you telling me that when it comes down to it,  me, a Caymanian that can trace my heritage on these islands back five generations, should suck sorrow from a wooden spoon and roll over and die?

              CALLING  ALL CAYMANIANS!  Where ever you are come home, help rebuild your Country!  If you are here, its time to stand up, give your self a good shake and lets get on with the business of our Country!

               

          • Anonymous says:

            sorry but caymanians only help build some of it….we all know jamaicans did the hard labour. And no I’m not a Jamaican!!!  There are alot of foreigners that live in cayman that love cayman as much as a caymanian.  If all the expats leave who is going to fill the jobs?  There are not enough caymanians to fill the jobs.  Every country has expats why should cayman be any different.

            • Anonymous says:

              Hard labour in Cayman = compensation ($$$$$$) being sent back home…..so when do Caymanians get a lil ‘thank you’ for having helped to ‘build’ up Jamaica and elsewhere??!! Jesus!! will da bunch of you leave us Caymanians alone and stop expecting us to kiss ass for all that the expat community has done for us??!! we know you all have contributed in some way and in turn your asses are paid and generally openly welcomed (although in recent times our patience has been running thin!)…noone is forced to be here….there is no slavery going on here….every expat here has the option to leave! Our biggest problem has been our laid back and welcoming attitude – enought of that shit now! I for one up fed up!

          • Anonymous says:

            Is that a Jamaican I see on that roof building….bet he enjoys ‘lording’ it!

          • Anonymous says:

            Your right, it is your country, and by god you can keep it!!!!!!

            It’s time Cayman got independance…… They dont deserve British passports!!!!!

          • Anonymous says:

            AMEN!!! Everyone is replaceable, so please get over yourself.  With the amount of young caymanians that are seeking summer jobs during the summer and all the graduates of UCCI and ICCI, I doubt that lack of qualification is the reason we (caymanians) need "qualified" expats to do the job!!!!!    

          • Anonymous says:

            actually Nature built Cayman, Caymanians lived here for a while in a small undeveloped local economy, then some expats moved here an built a large global financial centre.

            Some Caymanians jumped on the new economy and thrived in it, others didn’t…….

             

            • Anonymous says:

              oh come on! you know there is only a small step between rope weaving, fishing…. and the financial services industry!

          • Anonymous says:

            Fact vs Fiction:

            1) Cayman is for Caymanians. This implies ownership, which is false. Cayman actually belongs to England. Caymanians only rent the islands. Therefore, anyone who comes here, at any time, and contributes to the island should be treated with respect. 

            2) Caymanians built this place. This doesn’t explain why nothing happened here until the Bahamas started kicking out its expats. The "Caymanians". 

            3) Caymanians have no place to go. False, many Caymanians take up opportunities in other parts of the world. It is only the uneducated that feel theyhave no place to go.

            4) Caymanians are taken advantage of. What a joke. Caymanians own/ direct 60% of all business. They control 100% of government. I never here wealthy Caymanians complain. In fact, most often they are smiling and working hard, especially the ones from the Brac. 

            5) Caymanians are a Christian people. Love Thy Neighbor. Yet it is acceptable for some Caymanians to go into Immigration, completely LIE about a third party (expat) and they are believed. It is only believed because the Boards hearing the stories are bigots themselves. If not, the Boards would seek PROOF.

            6) Immigration doesn’t know how many people were rolled over. Really, can’t they count the letters they sent out? If they don’t know how many were rolled over, how do they know that those persons haven’t returned after a 1 week stint? Perhaps they don’t want to admit the true numbers as this may be proof positive that LESS people are here to boost the economy. 

            7) People from other countries shouldn’t give advise. People from other countries know what NOT to do. Just like a recovered drug addict can assist a recovering drug addict. 

            8) Caymanians hate Jamaicans. This is false. Caymanians try to be Jamaican all the time.  Any Sunday at Rum Point the boaters play Jamaican music, drink Jamaican alcohol. Perhaps this is because there is very little difference from the "red people dem" of Cayman and the "red people dem" of St. Elizabeth.

            9) It is held against expats that they come here, make money and leave. Isn’t that the whole point of the ROLLOVER. Admittedly I have always been against that expat "attitude", but now it is law and most expats are law abiding citizens. Cayman has to be very careful what it wishes for. (Actually, the whole point of the rollover was to prevent more people from getting votes.)

            10) Big Mac is the reason for Cayman’s problems. Actually Cayman has been deteriorating over the last five years. The global financial crisis is not yet 2 years old. According to most, the recovery is well under way. Cayman’s downfall was due the purpose driven, but imprudent fiscal policies and ethnic cleansing of the PPM.  It is unfortunate, that Immigration doesn’t know how many thousand people it has sent off island. How ever many it is, that is mass marketing, of the worst kind, for the good people of these islands.

            I pray the good (quite) Caymanians win over the (vociferous) bigots and ignorant ones. 

             

             

             

             

        • Renter says:

          Bang on with the renting/buying point – no way I would buy between stamp duty and rollover.

        • your subsidizing who! says:

          Come on now….be real! wherever you come from has alot of subsidizing going on and just because you come here and see some people being subsidized for whatever reason does not give you the moral high ground.  In fact, as a developing country it should be expected that a high amount of the populace have not been afforded the opportunity to accumlate the type of wealth (and knowledge) that your blue blooded lines have piliged from the world through slavery or as a justified homicide of natives of other countries.  Unfortunately, your reputation proceeds you as a majority of the citizens of this counrty do not stem from your bloodlines or align themselves to your beliefs.  I sure someone will counter calling our system indebture labour or something along those lines but the last time I check the workers in this country came at free will and are able to leave at free will and that is a fact.  Despite your comments about our houses being worthless; the value is something that lies in the eyes of the beholder.  Moreover, the houses that are here already cannot be loaded onto a plane a carried away.  The demise of Cayman as predicted is a far fetch notion as we have managed to educate many of our children thanks to vaulable contributions from many including ex-pats and the companies they work for (credit due where credit due).  With this said, many Caymanians including myself are educated and have assets in other countries sometimes valuing in the millions of the local demonination and I am not referring to neighbouring countries which by the way I have investment there also.  I will continue to support the land of my heritage but perhaps from some other locations on the other side of the world.  Basically, I think we are all tired of the devisive exchanges between ex-pats and locals and perhaps this is the best thing to happen to Cayman yet.  I am willing to take my bashing for stealing someone job when I get there but if I don’t you will and that would be worse as you would preputate your "dominance" of the world one generation longer and the world may never change.  In time, we may indeed realize that we have a small populace which with less revenue can be maintained by tourisism alone; this is what the UK wants and we are obliged to give it to them.  The adjustment may be painful for many and show itself in many forms, crime being one but at the end of the day I predict a nice little island with a real big trash hill to remind us bigger is not better.  I hope we can elect a female as our next premier as I think a woman is what is needed to guide us after we have embarked down the wrong road.  I think we would have been a much better as people and happier if we had stuck to our roots and not gone down this path.

        • Anonymous says:

          The reason the ex-pats are here is because they are not able to get jobs in their own run-down Countries…Anyway, they are used to paying taxes, paying them here, will stop them feeling home-sick… perhaps!

           

      • Makam says:

        Sorry…did you say welcomed with open arms..all I see is negativity towards Ex-pats. Benefits…err  what benefits are you talking about?…low crime levels perhaps?…

         

        In your totally bigoted outlook you seem to think that people will come flocking to our country…they may come from the truly third world countries…is that what you want slavery by another name. We are trying to convince the world that we are a sophisticated financial centre and people like you come up with these ideas…

        And when a lot of the qualified Ex-pats do leave are you going to the first to blame…..who exactly

        God help us all…for as sure as can be Mckeeva is not.

         

         

         

  43. Common sense says:

    There is an old saying about Nero playing his fiddle while Rome burned, and that is what we are doing. Our peerless leader obviously knows nothing about negotiation or he would have done some. Just because you say something is not going to happen, doesn’t mean it won’t happen. Happens with politicians all the time.

    So, do NOT have any kind of taxation that is remotely to do with income, payroll, whatever. Have a property tax that can be applied and collected through CUC, so we don’t need yet another government department of 150 relatives to oversee its non-collection. Privatise collection — why not?Collection agencies are some of the most efficient collectors of debts that I know. Tie collection to productivity. Pay them 5% of whatever they collect.

    Come on guys, we already pay fees (aka taxes) for everything from toilet paper to petrol. Don’t call it a property tax, call it a property fee or assessment. Let’s face it, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

     

     

     

     

  44. Anonymous says:

    McDinejad at work again !!!

    • Anonymous says:

      Why is Ken Jefferson not being held accountable?

      As Financial Secretary he has oversight for Government’s regulatory, fiscal and budget management operations.  I can tell you if he was still working in the private sector he would be out the door! 

  45. Anonymous says:

    Come on people can’t you all see through this ???? (I’m talking to everyone other than Mac’s UDP sheeps because their blinders ain’t coming off anytime soon)….this is Mac’s idea and not the UK’s. He did exactly the same thing with the status grants.

    He knew that the UK wanted us to give their citizens status so he said listen guys I want to give out status too but it will be very unpopular with my people so if you all will write to me instructing me to do it and I tell my people that you instructed me to do it and that if we want to retain our British Overseas Territories status we’ll have to comply then we can achieve this.

    The result : 3000+ status grants, more demands on government for more schools and educational services, more medical services and more infrastructure generally to cater to the new Caymanians = the deficit that we have today !!!

    Now he’s doing the same thing with the income tax because the UK wants this for Cayman too so they can finish destroy our financial services industry…..so Mac declares that the UK is forcing us to do this or they won’t approve our borrowings. THIS IS MAC’S PLAN PEOPLE…..IT ALWAYS WAS.

    So he will get his way with his income tax proposal too and blame it on the UK. More money in the treasury means more money to pass under the table on its 360 degree journey back to our christian politicians.

    And guess what Caymanians….there can be no direct taxation without representation and that paves the way for more constitutional advancement and for expats to be eligible to run for public office and for the expats to vote in their own.

    Yes another major screw up for our country at the hands of McKeeva & his UDP……this is what you voted for Cayman so you have gotten the Government that you deserve. Now lets see if you will continue to let this dangerous party run for the full 4 year term and finish off our country as we know it !!!!!!!!

  46. Anonymous says:

    Front page BBC news

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8272942.stm

    CNS: Thanks. I’ve posted this on our front page.

     

    • Anonymous says:

      So BBC says our current problems caused by Global recession and international opposition to Tax Heavens.  But Mr. Bush is saying in his interview, it is caused by PPM and Alden McLaughlin.  So I don’t know whom to believe.  I know BBC is known for spreding lies and more lies.   Could someone please help me.  I am going nuts……

  47. Anonymous says:

    What services will expats receive in return for their tax dollars?

    • Anonymous says:

      "What services will expats receive in return for their tax dollars?"

      We, the expats, will continue to receive police and fire protection. We continue to enjoy use of public roadways and basic maintainence of public right of ways.

      The garbage trucks do not check for our immigration status before hauling away our trash.

      The ambulance will still come when we call 9-1-1, though we might have to pay for transport just like Caymanians do. The 9-1-1 operator will ask all sorts of questions but won’t ask if you are an expat when deciding what help to send.

      Government departments will manage proper records of our land purchases to help guarantee our property rights.

      And if that is not good enough, we expats can choose to leave. The government paid air traffic controllers will then look at the forecast prepared by the government paid meteorologist before telling the statutory authority (read government paid) airline pilot when it is clear to haul our butts off the island.

      I, for one, have had enought of Caymanians versus expats. We, the residents of Cayman, enjoy a pretty good thing here. We need to work together to address the financial situation.

      • Thankful says:

        Thank you…could not say it any better.  Glad you have a conscience, sense and appreciate the good ship Cayman for what it is.

         

        Kudos to you.

      • Anonymous says:

        The government paid air traffic control is primarily for the tourists, not me, so don’t be so stupid. The roads again are for tourists. I don’t drive, too much pollution.

        Your ignorance in this matter makes you look like a child. The original poster was reflecting on the fact that expats will be paying this tax but still not eligible to receive many of the benefits (e.g. schools, free hospitals, free hurricane protection) that people like you abuse.

      • da wa ya get says:

        Thank you for answering "What services will expats receive in return for their tax dollars?"!

        Glad to have someone with a conscience speak out!

         

      • Anonymous says:

        That’s wierd then that we already get thosethings for "free" according to you

        I thought it was already paid from Work Permits, duties, fees, Stamp duty etc that Expats also already pay for.

        It even goes to pay for those inflated MLA slaries those expats use and voted in?

        And those hundred million dollar schools expat kids are allowed to go to and that great national health insurance the expats get

        LOL

        • da wa ya get says:

          If you didn’t know, it’s a crime for expat workers to have to pay their work permit fee…that is for the employer to pay.

          • Anonymous says:

            and yet so many still have to

            If they report it, they end up deported before anything happens, I know of 4 cases (all domestic workers) of this occurring, and everytime I bet you can guess the nationality of the employer.

    • Thankful says:

      I suppose the services you ahev been getting for free thus far

    • Anonymous says:

      an even more inefficent , lazy and incompetent civil service….

  48. Anonymous says:

    Negotiation 101 – McHomer, if you put and left a direct tax on the table of course the FCO would insist on it – Now let everyone here you say "DOH" at least that part might be funny

    • Ray Parsons says:

       They’re all too busy laughing and saying, "Doh" at the way you spelt, ‘hear.’

      • Anonymous says:

        Ray – its spelled "DOH"  not "Doh", and "spelt" is a species of wheat – I think that you meant "spelled". Never mind though, if proper spelling was a requirement for this forum or getting elected there would be very few posts and a much small LA. Still the mess that McHomer is broadcasting over the planet is a serious problem for us all.

        BTW not seen you much for a while – how you is?  

    • Lachlan MacTavish says:

      The Cayman Islands already has TAXES. Land transfer tax, duties are taxes, stamp taxes, fees to the CIG are taxes.  The people of The Cayman Islands are taxed so that the CIG may run the country.

      LOGB and the CIG leadership understand that for Cayman to thrive in the future that the present taxation system has run its course. That the CIG requires a steady, accountable, tax that can be the benchmark for budgeting the running of the country and a tax that will no fluctuate.

      The LOGB obviously understands this and is thinking aggressively and pro actively to pull Cayman out of this tailspin.

      There will be a need for a "new" tax. In my opinion a payroll tax will be very hard to monitor, hard to account and difficult to enforce. Look at the troubles with pension withholdings. A land tax can be administered through land registry, handled like transfer taxes and enforced. Best solution for the country. Very difficult decision but true leaders need to make hard decisions.

      Lachlan MacTavish

      • Anonymous says:

        All credibility was lost at the following points:

        "LOGB and the CIG leadership understand", and

        "The LOGB obviously understands this and is thinking aggressively and pro actively"

        All the evidence points in the other direction.

  49. Anonymous says:

    The only way to fix your problem is to get ride of it.  Would anyone notice if your goverment stopped working.  Apart from all the unemployed unemployable people begging for money down by the Cruise ships and people actually empowered to take care of themselves and their families their own way.  People could actually defend themselfs against crime. Smart hard working people could get ahead and lazy incompetent people would have to work for the hard working smart ones instead of the other way around.  You and I know this will never happen so what is happening in Cayman now will just continue until ……..

  50. Anonymous says:

    If using what your bill is from CUC determines if you are rich or poor then we will be in trouble. I know of a family who brings home very little pay and has to pay rent in excess of $1500 per month and their electricity bill is in excess of $800 per month – the electric bill is $300+ and the fuel factor in excess of $500. The amount of your electricity bill does not reflect your financial standing in this country – it just shows you how crooked CUC is.

    • Anonymous says:

      That is a ridiculous sum and surely not CUC’s fault. Try closing doors and windows. look for electrical appliances that may stay on. check if the nanny or helpers are doing something. caulk and seal all openings.

      Obviously something is not right with the dwelling or electrical system.

      I took over the lease of a condo and the previous owner warned of $400+ electric bills — I haven’t seen one over $225. I suspect their helper was doing something as I have made no significant alerations.

      • Anon says:

        Another way to save on electricity is to unplug anything you are not using, even the cell phone charger. Turn off your water hearter and only turn it on when yo go to have a bath or get a timer for the water heater. Turn off the electrical stove and only turn it one when you need to use it. I have a 2000 sq ft house with a split unit a/c system and my bill is around $350 per month, a little more or less. And I use the a/c in my rooms every night. I rarely have to use the a/c in the living room as the cool air from the bedrooms spreads through out the house and I just turn the fans on in the living room to keep it cool as well.

    • Toyota says:

      You need to advise this family to either move or close the windows when the air con is on.  Your numbers don’t add up.  Generally speaking, most people’s CUC bill will reflect their earnings.   I don’t like the idea either, but let’s face, Gov’t needs more money and it will come from somewhere. 

    • Jean Yus says:

      "The amount of your electricity bill does not reflect your financial standing in this country – it just shows you how crooked CUC is."  I think it shows quite accurately how much electricity you use.

       

  51. Anonymous says:

    "Taxation without representation is tyranny" – was the battle cry during the Amercian Revolutionary War.  It is as true now and it was then.

    The fairest solution would be for Caymanians to volunteer a one time 2-5% education upgrade fee (many Church congregations ask for more).  Permit holders (who cannot vote) would be ineligible to contribute just as they are ineligible to use the schools.  Fair is fair.  

    Unless Caymanians are prepared to give EVERYONE the right to vote (which some politicians would love), this is the fairest solution to all.   

     

  52. Anonymous says:

    Let’s see who has the guts to vote "yes" for this proposal in the Legislative Assembly, which is where the budget has to be approved. Caymanians should fill the building on that day and shout "NO" to the top of their voices when the Question is put! Even at the risk of being thrown out by the overpaid Speaker!

    • Anonymous says:

      So, it appears again that the local businesses will be footing the bill.  Will this tax also be applied to Government departments and statutory authorities? Or are we bypassing the civil service, yet again?

      Has the Government thought about spreading the burden?  What about including in annual fees for all offshore businesses with a presence (be it by nameplate or physical business) paying $10,000.00 annually towards Education — assisting in covering the costs of local schools and scholarships.  When I last checked there were over 1,000 such businesses here and seems like an excellent way to have recurring annual revenue of $10m+.  This would spread some of the burden for the some 25 to 50 businesses who locally assist with education sponsorships, and also improve our local standards.

       

      • Anonymous says:

        I know of a firm that donated $1,000,000.00 for the construction of the new library downtown. Many firms assist by donating to all the charitableevents.

        Many firms already have to pay out substantial fees for registering a business.

        What you are proposing is decrease their desire and ability to help out!

        Brilliant — that should work out well!

        • Donation says:

          Actually no firm gave money for the library.  Rather it was a charitable donation from a charitable trust paid from a mandatory contribution from clients of that firm.  So the monies were really paid by 1000’s of companies.

      • Anon says:

        Offshore business do pay government annual fees (be it by nameplate or physical business). They wouldn’t be able to legally operate in the Cayman Islands and would be breaking the law if their annual fees are not paid up to date.

  53. Anonymous says:

    I’d like to understand how the Government can actually get to the point where there is such a deficit?

    Is there actually anyone within the Government taking responsibility for collections? – I doubt it.

    There’s your answer Mr Bush – hire a team of Credit collectors and get in what you’re owed.

    Simple.

  54. Anonymous says:

    If Mac is trying to create uncertainly and instability in the business community for reasons of his own then he is certainly succeeding. If he is not trying to destabilize Cayman then he is clearly in over his head and his advisors are as well.

    My suggestion is that if the UDP is unwilling to replace him with someone competent, then they ought to at least get him to stop saying anything until a sensible solution to the current problems, one that must include a drastic cut in spending, is fully developed.

  55. Anonymous says:

    Madness – particularly when you have this previously posted alternative as a means of generating "community fee":

    Solution is simple. Instead of garbage fees etc…

    For domestic housholds

    $100 or less CUC bill – pay nothing extra (protects poor)

    $ 100 – 200 CUC bill – pay $35 extra each month.

    $ 200 – 300 CUC Bill – pay $60 extra each month.

    $ 300 – 400 CUC Bill – pay $100 extra each month.

    $ 400 – 500 CUC Bill – pay $150 extra each month.

    $ 500 – 600 CUC Bill – pay $200 extra each month etc.. 

    Businesses/hotels etc. pay on this basis too (perhaps at higher rates).

    If 20,000 CUC accounts at average $350/month this scheme alone would raise an extra CI$2,000,000 each and every month, be fair (rich with bigger homes/more occupants pay more), would encourage "green" technology,be free (government would not have to employ anyone at all to collect), would be self enforcing (you do not pay, it gets dark) and would provide CI$24,000,000 each and every year in new revenue to government.   Collection could be a condition of CUC’s licence.

    If our leaders were serious about running Cayman efficiently and effectively – that is the answer. Anyone have any valid reason why this is not a good idea (I have free garbage collection, policing, and roadside maintenance as a birthright is not a valid reason) then I would love to know it. 

    Failing any response I would challenge our elected representatives to explain why they will not do it.    

     In addition to the damage it would do to financial service/cost of living/expense of doing business – a payroll tax would require added government infrastructure to implement and enforce – and what ya gonna do when no-one pays?  Probably about the same as you are doing in relation to unpaid pensions and health insurance and years of unpaid garbage fees, and hospital bills etc… which is in part how we got into this mess in the first place.

    • Anonymous says:

      Cut the Red Tape

      Why would you want to do this madness? CUC is a private company, you cannot make them responsible for collecting Government revenue.

      Mac speaks of cutting the red tape, but really he only means removing checks and balances so that he can hand out awards as and when he sees fit.

      If you want to cut some red tape then take a close look at Customs. Yesterday I imported some items. It took four hours of my time to get them. This involved stand in line, visiting several locations, purchasing forms, filling out forms,standing in line, but mostly standing and waiting while one person checked my figures with a superviser over his shoulder checking his review of my calculations. Why can’t Customs do all of this beforehand and when you go for your goods they say "Here are your goods, and here is the bill. Pay over there and have a nice day"????

      You know how many gallons of diesel CUC burns each year. If you want to raise an additional $50M then divide 50 by how ever many million gallons they use and add that as a tax to diesel. While they are at it, add one to gasoline as well. Government gets to collect the money up front and CUC adds it to the bill as an energy charge. It then becomes their business.

      The only problem is that you will need to add another 20% to the amount that you require because politicians will have to allocated some of the revenue to "hep" poor voters pay their electricity bill. Never mind that the rest of us will be looking at ways to conserve energy and bring our bills down.

      A payroll tax will give the same problems. Do you have any idea how many additional Civil Servants it will take to administer a payroll tax collection system?

      • Anonymous says:

        CUC might do it if they were required to as a condition of their licence and also, if they were permitted a small but reasonable admin fee for doing all the collection on behalf  of Govt. Everyone could win.

        And… the suggestion is that the fee be based on pure electricity consumption (without taking into account the fuel surcharge).

         

  56. Anonymous says:

    Payroll tax will stimulate the economy. Just think of how many entrepreneurs will start new businesses advising companies on how to minimise their payroll taxes.

  57. Anonymous says:

    Come on Mac, stop playing small town politics on the international stage!!  You’re humiliating us..

     
    • Anonymous says:

      I am afraid that small town politics is all he knows and I doubt that the old dog is able to or wants to learn any new tricks. He has chosen other old dogs as his advisors as he feels comfortable with them – they even tell him how clever his is – after all they are clued in to the same extent. I suspect he kept saying clever things like "dog ate ya suppa" to the FCO folks and simply could not understand when the FCO did not give in. Come on UDP can we please make him the permanent ambassador to North West Point and find somebody competent. I know that there are some intelligent educated members of the UDP – do the country a favour and put one of them in charge of the party.

  58. Edwards says:

    CNS did I hear them say that, Cayman was the one that put the law in place re: asking UK for permission once they hit a certain threshold?

    If that is the case why don’t they amend it once they reach parliment.

    The UK just wants to remove the TAX FREE status, so why would anyone think that they would say yes, before some sort of tax is implimented. If Mac comes up with one trillion workable plans without tax to put forward, all they will do is shift the goal post.

    So unless he gets he funds from somewhere, and tell the UK to kiss off, Cayman  WILL BE TAXED.

  59. AnonymousT says:

    At times like this I often wonder why the serioulsy rich of Cayman remain so silent. The guys with the serious dough could easily lend the funds to Govt in a way that does not require UK assent. Why, the kirkconnell bros alone could cut checks for $400m right now. Many other Cayman "Royalty" or "Dons" could write cheques for £10m plus out of their call accounts without even noticing, plus plenty of cayman nouveau riche and wannabes  who would love to be named as saviours (those not requesting anonymity of course) or even the long-term expat types like Travers and Ridley who’ve been quietly hoovering up gazillions since the 70s.  Maybe secure the debt with charges on Govt Land, (no-one is going to lend it to Mac unsecured I reckon).

    So how about it Cayman wealthy? – time to flash a little cash and buy the Government some time…………… :~)

    • Anonymous says:

      because they don’t need too….. expats will be forced to bail out everybody

    • Anonymous says:

      No self respecting business or individual is going to risk lending millions and millions to a failed government in a failed country that has little or no chance of ever being able to repay the funds.

      The government needs to cut it’s expenditure to match it’s revenue. Without a plan in place to cut costs and generate revenue then they are an unsafe investment.

      That’s why these big guns aren’t coming forward to bail you out

  60. Anonymous says:

    I say we take the FCO on with this. mac lets push back and say no. we cannot afford to reck the country with this policy being forced on us. fight back.

  61. Anonymous says:

    UK got em right where they want em! trust me I feel sorry for this govt if they introduce this because this was coming fromthe Uk a long time ago. is it time to consider cutting our ties with them?

  62. Anonymous says:

    guys: this is NOT mac’s idea (or anyone else) it is an explicit request from the FCO. we need to fight this tooth and nail to avoid destroying the coutry

  63. Civil Servants Laughing says:

    So we have to give up our hard earned dollars to pay for inflated wages and perks of the useless civil service.  Great.

    Can we call it the PPM Memorial Fee to remind us every month what we are paying for?

  64. Anonymous says:

    The FCO strategy is working. they are not going to stop until cayman is a banana republic.

  65. Anonymous says:

    The UK is just trying to force us to do soemthing while we are donw and out like every other country experiencing the crisis. shame on them. we should address this blatant abuse of their constitutional power at some other level.

  66. Anonymous says:

    This is exactly what the UK wants. they have pushed cayman to do this and placed the government in an impossible position. there are other means to become more sustainable, but these cannot be implemented before the government lays its budget as they take time. so the UK is forcing the country to detroy its financial industry.  to those that try to blame the government, i think you have several governments then–the previous one (and actually other ones before them) for creating this mess and this one for basically being in the seat when the axe came down.

    Whether it is this government or the one before, don;t blame them for thinking about this because it is being forced strategically on them as raw intl politics.

    Furthermore regdring cutting cost of runing the civil service, what people dont understand is that the civil service is in effect a union. and the government has no control over it. why is no one talking about the ONLY person that can announce effectively a cut in civil service cosst without ANY political or other risks?—that is the governor. and why has he not done that. Think about that long and hard. he is a representative of the UK. lets get real.

    • N. Syder says:

      Whether or not the UK wants this or not is irrelevant. If Cayman’s Government had looked after the Country’s finances there would be no proposals of tax.

      If Cayman had planned ahead then the UK would not be able to destroy the Financial industry here. Let’s face it, Cayman is an easy target right now…..

       

  67. Anonymous says:

    Mac and his Morons are even worst than Kurt & the Coconuts. Are there any new faces horizon than may be able to led Cayman forward? These two jokers and their groups need to retire!!

  68. Cayman's Prosperity R.I.P. says:

    Goldman Sachs moved functions to Canada because of cost and labor market issues.  Maples Finance are doing the same, as are parts of Maples support staff.  And these companies moved AHEAD of the announcement payroll tax.

    Maples and Goldman Sachs.  They tend to be clued up.  They tend to be ahead of the curve.  Where they go the others will follow.  But they will follow more quickly now that business is being taxed directly.

    MY CV is being tidied up!

     

    • here it is says:

      Maples and Goldman are behind the curve…look at when the big big insurer moved to CHF back in 2007 can anyone say ACE look who ACE is and look how it was connected to AIG.  Then look how AIG is connected to the whole financial crisis.  The writing was on the wall!

  69. Anonymous says:

     I notice in an advert in the Compass that the "UDP Government" will have a public meeting on Thursday to explain everything.  It seems increasingly obvious that Mr. Bush cares only for those who were his supporters and the rest of the country can go to hell.  That is some great leadership there.  My suggestion is that since this country is going to be handed over to UDP supporters lock-stock-and barrel, any taxes should fall only on the UDP and its’ supporters.

    • Anonymous says:

      It is a "public’ meeting meaning everyone can come, even members of the "sore loser" party!! Get your head out of the sand, it was the PPM not the UDP that brought this country to its knees. Everyone that still supports those losers need to have their heads checked.

      • Anonymous says:

        The title of the meeting should say "government public meeting" and not specify "UDP" meeting.  The elections are over they are now the "government" of the Cayman Islands no matter what their party name is.

      • Anonymous says:

         The point is that, as leader of the Cayman Islands, he should present himself as representing all Caymanians.  Instead, he continues to represent himself solely as a UDP man.  The election is over.  The time for politics is past.  The time for leadership is now.  Mr. Bush needs to make it clear that he is for ALL Caymanians.

      • Anonymous says:

        Don’t put the blame on PPM, tell the truth this crisis has been brewing long long before they were in power. It was just a matter of time and unfortunately it reached the brim during their administration. Get the real picture beforeyou speak. I did not vote for the PPM

  70. Payroll and Income Taxes says:

    There is only a difference between a payroll tax and an income tax if you are wealthy and have other income earning assets outside your wage.  So really they have imposed a lazy tax which will affect the middle classes worst while the privilege wealthy elite of Cayman suffer proportionately less. 

    An example? With a payroll tax, unlike an income tax, there would be no tax on rental income from say a condo or too at the Ritz.  That is how it works, Mac?

  71. Where we are. says:

    We are all now going to pay income tax to pay for the swollen wages and staff of the civil service.  If we are going to PAY I expect to see serious CUTS as well on the expenditure

  72. Anonymous says:

    Goooood morning Cayman! This is certainly the dawning of a new era folks. 

    I’ve read all the posts in this thread and can only shake my head at the picture that is coming across here. Listen folks, I’m no great McKeeva fan but right now I’m almost feeling sorry for the guy. As he said on the Radio recently, "Be careful what you wish for."  He got his wish and it turned into a monster to eat him up. It is no nice, comfy seat to be in right now. He and the government are flip-flopping as you say simply because they are like the rest of us who are out here searching for answers in the quick sand that we ALL helped to create in some way or another. Now we are paying the price folks.

    Obviously the majority of posts are from the expat community who ran from their own countries to avoid the taxes levied on them by their governments but guess what guys, the game is over. Many of you have have contributed to the good of Cayman and for that we thank you but we also knot that there are many who have been here for the free ride and now that the good ship Cayman is running aground they are the first ones to jump ship – but, hey, do what you gotta do guys. 

    Maybe, just may be, there is some method to this madness and in fact good might even come come from it.  Imagine .. it could provide the means to dump the rubbish, take a breather, re-plan, re-start the good ship Cayman and start sailing again with a new crew.  Ahhhh … there’s a good thought.

    Humour aside, stop the moaning and groaning and accept that the only constant in life is change.   Lets stand together and work to find the answers that seem to evade us at this point, for the good of us all.

    Fellow Caymanians, focus on the fact that we are a strong people, that regardless of what the others say we know that we are smart and that together we have weathered many a storm in the past.  Beyond every cloud there is a rainbow and we know that beyond these challenging times there will still be a great little country that we will love and be proud to call home.

    Now all you bashers .. have your field day … be my guest.

     

     

  73. The Civil disService says:

    I just want to remind everyone that we’re going to help out too, just as long as nobody in the Civil disService loses our jobs, no pay cuts are brought in, and no benefits are cut.  Other than that, we’ll do our part.

    Now please hurry up and get those taxes put in place because we could also really use raises (it’s been a while), plus there are still a few Caymanians who are not on the public payroll.  The Civil disService really needs to expand to give "jobs" to all the rest of the unemployed/unemployable Caymanians, so be forewarned that we will need to increase the taxes on you right after they start. 

    And I do mean "you", as opposed to "us"; we’re not paying taxes.  The private sector, as you know, has an obligation to support the public sector, so grab your chequebooks all you private fellas and get ready to support us.  We’re getting even bigger still, and there isn’t enough money to support us now.  Sure, your support payments to us are going to hurt a little (I mean not all of you will become bankrupt and go out of business), but we’ve all got to do our parts, right?

    Hey, private fellas… where you going?  Hey! Wait…come back!!!

     

     

  74. Anonymous says:

    Most will agree that smaller government is the way to reduce the present cost of running the government.

    If you start taxing people based on payroll, is that not going to increase the size of government by having to establish an office to deal with collection and policing of the system.

    Has anyone stopped to think how much that will increase the cost of government.

    Will the taxes collected be sufficient to cover the additional bureaucratic ego, or will we need to employ more expats to deal with it.

    Someone needs to take a deep breath and do some reasonable thinking before delving into another burden on our people.

  75. Gary says:

     I certainly hope that if this tax is introduced, then everyone is made to pay (possibly with the exception of the lowest paid people).  If it is only levied on work permit holders, then what stops the (perception of) government continuing as normal without the cutting of costs.

    Remember the Boston Tea Party?  Maybe the work permit holders will need to sink a cruise ship in order to get representation?

    • Anonymous says:

      Then the work permit holders all leave…and then what?

      • WHAT!!!  PAYROLL TAX!!!

        The difference between government and thievery is mostly a matter of legality!

        This compulsory and enforced legal system is theft. I don’t care if the United States and the UK has such a system, levying taxes via force and coercive is downright theft. I can’t believe the leader of government business, has suggested to us that we go down this route of no return!  What do you think will happen to our future generations, if our government starts aggressively increasing taxes on our payroll… Tell me, for those who want taxation, do you seriously think, at that time, the average Caymanian voice would be heard? I think not!!!  Our democracy will be like the United States or United Kingdom – corrupt! And what bothers me in all of this, the people of Cayman has no say! The FCO makes all the decisions for us without consulting how we feel about the issue! The law-enforcement will crack down on those who are refusing to pay. Think of the money now that has to be spent to ensure this tax is paid by 50,000 people!  

        I think that there is a better way for us other than taxation… Let’s focus on making money, instead of taking money away from people who work hard. This will surely kill the incentive to want to aspire and be successful in the Cayman Islands.

        Peace

  76. Anonymouse says:

    CUT the FAT Mac: CI$118 MILLION in SAVINGS!

    – Civil Servants, start paying half of the medical and pension contribution made on your behalf, like everyone else and save us $30 million…

    – Civil Servants, cut your pay by 10% – everybody else is tightening their belts, so why not you? – and save us another $35 million…

    – Civil Servants, cut your numbers by 15% and save us another $53 million…

    All told, if you stopped acting like Self-Servants and started to become real Civil Servants with the interests of the country at heart, you could save us: $30 + $35 + $53 = $118 million and balance the budget in one fell swoop…

    So, what will it be Civil or Self-Servants?…

    Btw, MLA’s and ministers should start showing the example by cutting their grossly inflated salaries – that increased 25 to 35% in the last 4 years – by at least 15%…

    CUT the FAT Mac, figuratively and literally!…

  77. Anonymous says:

    Sorry but this had better by anonymous.

     

    Until five years ago I lived in a town in the UK that has a population of around 65 000. I served on the Town Council for nine years, being re-elected twice. I received no salary but I did get expenses and for the last full  financial year that I served, I was in receipt of less that one thousand pounds ($1500 CI). My constituency had 8500 registered voters.

    I f I had been politically ambitious, I could have sought a seat on the County Council and if I had made an impact and caught someone’s eye, it is possible that I could have eventually stood for parliament. MPs today have experience and on the job training and earn 64,700 pounds a year ($86,000 CI).

    For most of them it is their only job. You may not agree with what they believe and you may hold them in contempt for some of the things that some of them have done recently but I am not aware of any country with a better system.

    Compare them with MLAs. The salary difference is laughable and the embarrassingly amateurish way many of them conduct themselves is pitiful. We have a leader who has never been found guilty of having had a coherent thought in his life and is a laughing stock in the financial services upon which this country depends so much.

    Another big difference is that when I served on the Town Council, I knew instinctively what my party’s position would be on any issue that arose. Most of the electorate knew too and they were able to anticipate the stand that would be taken by the other two parties as well.

    Here, I have no idea at all what the UDP and the PPM stand for. I am instinctively drawn towards one of the two parties but I can’t tell you why other than that party seems to be represented by, ‘nice chaps’ and the other seems to be run by a man who is brain dead and one of their MLA’s outpourings would suggest that urgent help is required.

    Apart from those gut reactions, I know nothing about differences between the platforms of the two parties on any issue.

    MLAs are pushed into power and then flounder from the word go. Most of them have no experience and no genuine opposition in elections.

    Running Cayman is a bit more important than running Borsetshire or Loamshire  County Councils. 

    I have no solutions. These are merely observations.

     

  78. Anonymous says:

    Why are you people so pissed with Mckeeva ??

    Mckeeva didn’t get us into the mess we are in, did he ??? 

    Mckeeva is attempting to keep the country’s head above water and not drowning in the debt that Kurt, Alden, Chuckie, Anthony and Arden got us into.

    Which is it that you want ???

    Do you want to drown and die now or do you want to pay 5% tax for a year or so and hopefully in that time, the recession would have ended thereby causing some inward investment to flow into our economy and our financial gloom/doom decreased, allowing the government to now reverse the earlier 5% tax that was implemented ???

    How say you ???

     

     

  79. Anonymous says:

    This is a sad day for the Cayman Islands.

    I have lived here from the mid 1950’s when the mosquitoes
    were so thick that they smothered cows on a regular basis, when our people
    lined the ‘little dock’ to buy bananas from the Honduran boats, when Caymanians
    were admired as ‘Iron Men’ sailing on wooden ships, and when in the absence of
    the term ‘Cayman Status’, the people of this country focused essentially on one
    thing – survival.

     We had some good years starting in the 1960- 1970’s and
    became one of the largest financial centers in the world due primarily to the
    foresight of the late Sir Vassel Johnson (a Jamaican / Caymanian), the late Mr.
    W.S. Walker Sr, and other brilliant people, some from Cayman and others from
    elsewhere.

    We were the envy of the world, a tiny dot on the map, but a
    powerful competitor to the major financial centers of Europe, New York, and
    London. So competition being what it is – how did they defeat us? Well in the
    end I guess we defeated ourselves by fighting amongst each other while the
    competitors smeared us with terms like ‘money laundering’ ‘tax haven’ and
    created the impression that we are a corrupt band of Caribbean Pirates, causing
    the economic denise of the good democratic stalwarts of Europe, the U.K. and
    America.

    So how did they really bring us down? Well. First the
    country’s credibility was destroyed. The integrity of the Police was attacked
    by super duper Sherlock Holmes investigative teams from the U.K. breaking our
    laws trying to prove ‘police corruption. 

    Then the Judicial System was unraveled in front of the world
    – such an embarrassment with us pitting ourselves against each other – and for
    what reason?

      Then we had this
    ‘white list – black list’ nonsense – and I personally find that so offensive
    because they are using ‘white’ to indicate good, and ‘black’ to indicate bad,
    and gray I assume means ‘bastard’ which is what we were labeled.

    Anyway. We bent over backwards to please them because we
    want to be on their ‘white list’. And while all of this was happening we went
    broke and are now killing each other with the blame of who caused what.

    Now we
    are begging the UK – please can you allow us to borrow our way out of debt? But
    alas – they want us to impose property or income or some other taxes. The final nail in the
    coffin of our financial industry, our already downtrodden people, and our
    country.

    So what is the solution? Stop! Catch our breath. Think
    Survival. Temporary halt large projects and outflows of money. Lets find out
    what caused this mess. Get our Govt accounts up to date in 30 days. Figure out
    solutions for areas where we are bleeding funds. 

    New taxes are our enemy, and we cannot borrow our way out of
    debt! Stop! 

    Think Survival! Cut Spending!

     

  80. Dred says:

    Mr Bush the answer is a resounding NO!!!

    NO we don’t want your Community (Income Tax) Fee!!

    What we want are real answers. What you want is to be able to spend like the other idiots we just took out. $372 Million borrowing!!!

    We needed to reinvest ourselves a really long time ago. What we are is an overpriced product that has lost it’s luster. We had something a really long time ago called an Island. We lost that to development of which Mr Bush sold a lot of it via his Real Estate company.

    We need to examine what we can do Tourism wise that will bring a lot of money into the Islands. I think we have a few small choices:

    1) Lower the pricing of our products.

    a) Lower Ticket prices on Cayman Airways to bring in more tourist to spend money. The airline might not loose any funds overall if it leads to increase volume. The country stands to gain from possible more tourist.

    b) Strongly encourage hotels, restaurants and Watersports to follow suit. This has to be a group effort to make this work.

    c) Change marketing strategy to focus on value for dollar stressing most affordable location now in the Caribbean.

    2) Change our Target Marget. My suggestion would be to take Cayman to a Casino style location. Casinos offer a significant influx of funds into the country leading to jobs and it brings people with money here who might invest in homes and businesses.

    3) Change focus from Grand Cayman to all Islands stressing Little Cayman and work to build a sustainable structure there that is sensible learning from the mistakes made here.

    We need to also look at what else we have plenty of to make it a business opportunity for our country. Some ideas I would throw out:

    1) Solar farming – We are in the Caribbean and we have sun most of the time. What can be done with this resource? Can the Bluff in Cayman Brac be used?

    2) Mass Market Seawater Desalination – "Global output is still relatively minute – less than 0.1 percent of all drinking water. But according to a recent report by Global Water Intelligence, the worldwide desalination industry is expected to grow 140 percent over the next decade, with $25 billion in capital investment by 2010, or $56 billion by 2015." This offers the possibility again of money coming into the country.

    I still say the lottery is an idea that should be explored because it does have money potential.

    I’m sure some others can come up with even more innovative ideas than mine. We all have to throw our thoughts in on this because the answer is not taxes. Like other posters have said this will never end. This like all other resources will just grow and grow as we spend and spend.

    All I have to say is this. The previous government sang us in a rather deeep hole and the first thing the new government proposes is to go that much deeper in the hole.

    We need quick thinking and now.

     

    • Incognito says:

      Dred, this is why Sir Mac has announced that they will have another board to put "proposals" on solving issues in Cayman to the MLAS. lmao. what a crock of bull.

      The politians are paid between 10-15 thousand dollars a month!! and they are making another board to give opinions/suggestions/ideas on making things better?!?! 

      What exactly are we paying them forthen??

      If they were listening to the people of Cayman, they would know what is affecting us and know how to deal with it.

      I have lost faith in these political jokers, every last one.

      I just don’t understand how any of them sleep at night. I am watching my own caymanian people suffer slowly but surely, and I garantee that these jokers are living life. It’s all about money to them, and they are going to defend that before they defend us, the people who voted those vulchers in.

      To all readers: I am NOT a PPM OR UDP support. I am an Angry Cayman, who has feels betrayed by people who suppose to protect and run our country.

      This problem was caused by all parties who squandered this countries money and used our trust to get what they want.

      All I can do now is shake my head in sadness and hope for the best for my younger siblings, parents, cousins and friends and all the others that this mess will affect.

      • Dred says:

        BTW I do know the difference but what you are not getting is that for 80% of us we have no other source of income except for additional jobs which will also be affected by payroll tax.

        And if all you get by way of income is pay then a payroll tax is basically and income tax.

        And to be blunt about the whole thing I say this. This targets middle to lower class alot more than upper class unless it’s scaled.

        Keep in mind that upperclass make a lot of income from their investments and dividends. What you will see is business owners changing their way of doing business to instead of receiving a salary from their business simple take drawings against capital of their business. This will in effect mean no taxes for them. That my friend is called a loophole.

        And there is no way to resolve that because it is a legal practice that many do today already. Many will simply follow suit.

    • Anonymous says:

      I am not necessarily in favour of a payroll tax but it should be pointed out that payroll and income can be too entirely different things.  For instance, I have monthly income, via property rentals but no payroll.

      Anyway, i think once direct taxation is introduced there will be no end to it.

      I really don’t know the answer to our current situation; it seems that the UK is hell bent on the introduction of direct taxes here and at our present constitutional juncture, I think they can force whatever they want on us. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they spring the direct rule back on us as they have done in T&C. 

      Independence when you’re broke doesnt seem to be a great choice either! 

  81. Anon101 says:

    Help me please. I need some clarification. As a work permit holder, will I still not  be allowed to send my kids to government schools? It looks like I’ll pay for them but will be barred from using them.

    Have you actually thought this through Mckeeva? Thinking is not your strong point is it?

    And what about expats working for the government? Will it apply to them? People working for the government are not technically on work permits. Have you thought about that one?

  82. Anonymous says:

    community enhancement fee = income tax = civil service subsidy fee

  83. Joe Average says:

    In Canada there is a

    Goods and Services Tax,  Provincial Sales Tax, Gasoline Tax, Property Tax, MedicalInsurance, Capital Gains Tax, Municipal Tax, Corporate Tax, School Tax, Tobacco Tax, Alcohol Tax, Transfer Tax, Inheritance Tax, fees for Garbage Collection, Sewers, Water, Sidewalks, in addition to… Hunting Licenses, Fishing Licenses, Drivers Licenses, Miners Licenses, Business Licenses, Vessel Operators Licenses, Car Insurance, Vehicle Registration, Boat Registration, and the list goes on and on and on. Ad infinitum. 

    how does that tune go? 

    "if you drive a car i’ll tax the street if you decide to walk i’ll tax your feet if you try to sit i’ll tax your seat if you get too cold i’ll tax the heat" 

    And to think it all started with a temporary tax on income during World War I.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

    • Anonymous says:

      And you wonder why so many Canadians want to move down here (at least, up until now).

    • Carl the Canuck says:

      You missed Income Tax, CPP, UIC, and Health Insurance that come right off the top of your paycheque so as to take say 35% of it away, and then when you spend it there’s 15% in blended HST/GST on the product that already has several layers of tax built into it. Like gas, with provincial tax. federal tax, environmental tax built in and it’s priced to account for the factory’s multiple levels of taxes on its operations.

      And along the way there’s user taxes on everything else that you say. 

      We signed up to the Kyoto Accord, so now global warming causes taxes.  "Your cow farted?  That’ll be $38 please."

      So you see why I like it here.  It’s much simpler.

    • Anon101 says:

      I think you’ll find that income tax actually started in 1691 as a temporary measure brought in by the Bank of England to service the National Debt in the UK

      Parallels?

      • Anonymous says:

        1691 was the Hearth tax in Scotland.

        Income tax started in 1798 to finance the Napoleonic Wars and was temporary, being eventually withdrawn in 1816.

        In any case, it is the road to ruin. Cut spending NOW.

        • Anonymous says:

          Thank goodness for Google. It makes masterminds of us all. The 1798 Bill was the first time that that method of raising revenue was called, "Income Tax." The first time that it had been used was in 1688 as an adjunct to the Poll Tax.

          Have another look at Google. You could tell us lots of other interesting things that happened in1798, like who won the Derby.

          The writer is probably confusing that tax with the introduction of licensing hours which were introduced during WW1.

          Quick! Get on to Google and tell us who won the Cup in 1914. We are all dying to know.

          • Anonymous says:

            The original poster was talking about Canada, perhaps add that to your google seach in future

    • Anonymous says:

      and don’t forget the proposed HST, which will be the next tax

  84. Anonymous says:

    The difference between a payroll tax and income tax is in the word

    Payroll tax is on your wage you earn in Cayman

    Income tax is a tax on all world wide income on Cayman residents, so includes dividends on investments, interest earned on your savings, etc.

    Still a bad idea, the thin edge of the wedge

    And if it is 2% then that’ll be the 2% pay cut for the civil service and the rest of us, Caymanian or Expat

     

  85. Anonymous says:

    I heard this income tax is only for work permit holders, anybody knows if this is true?

  86. Cayman says:

    Mac:

    Please shut your pie-hole until you make up your mind what you are going to do once and for all. 

    Make a decision and then follow it through.

    This "I’m gonna do it; I’m not gonna do it. I’m gonna do it; I’m not gonna do it" makes the whole Island look even more unstable than, well, than it needs to look. 

    (I hesitate because you are in fact making it unstable by flapping your yap for and against yourself, and so it is probably as unstable as you are making it look, but we don’t want the world to see that, understand???  Don’t tell anyone, because it will screw up the Cayman Islands even more.).

    • Incognito says:

      This I must agree with. It’s like the war on terrorism. Keep the country scared so that he can accomplish want he really wants to do in the end.

      He’s going to voice all of the things that he knows with ruin Cayman, and then finally give a "lesser" costing solution, and the followers will be praising him.

      It’s either gambling, strip clubs or better yet, a mini bail out from Dart!! All in all, it’s alot better than taxing the country.

      To the poster about going independent for taxing. Do you know the trouble we would be in if we went independent? Do you really think we can become a successful independent island? Be realistic.

  87. Anonymous says:

    A payroll tax will produce a downward spiral. Once this tax in introduced business will leave, jobs will be lost and the total payroll of the country will go down while the debt will not. In order to raise money the government will increase the tax which will cause more business to leave and more jobs to be lost which will mean that the tax will have to be raised again.

    On top of that a payroll tax will require a huge bureaucracy in order to collect it and monitor compliance – more cost for an already bloated government structure.

    This government is intellectually bankrupt and must go now.

     

     

     

    • Anonymous says:

      I can just imagine all the bags being packed as we speak.  Surely McKeeva knows there will be an exodus of expats if this "tax" comes into force.  (I can hear the anti-expats cheering).  But we all know what will happen if all the expats leave.  I say call the UK’s bluff.

      On another note, why should we have to pay more taxes when the government is not trimming the fat?  The more money we give them, the more wasteful they can become.

  88. Anonymous says:

    A payroll tax, income tax still a tax. Mckeeva, please dont do this and bow to the wishes of the damn UK. take us to independence if you have to. We cannot afford this new tax in any size. We Caymanians are hurting and we looked to you to save us not hurt us.

    Why can’t we ask the Financial sector to offer to pay down some of this PPM debt in some form of gift to the government. thy have gleaned us for every penny over the last twenty or so years. I heard today that HSBC is packing up and moving bits of its company to Bermuda and have laid off more Caymanians. Not a good sign!

    How about increasing the taxes on hotels and Condos, rental cars, cruise ship passengers etc.

    Please, Mckeeva don’t bow to the UK and start direct taxes here. Do that and you will be reknown as the first to bring taxation to the Cayman Islands.  The PPM will now have fodder for their next election campaign. Remeber how easy it was for them to kick you out with the Status Grants propaganda campaign. Won’t take much with this one. Be careful!!

     

     

     

     

  89. Anonymous says:

    If you own your own company, you could pay yourself nothing.  You’ll have income but no payroll.

  90. Anonymous says:

    This is just a intro that he knows no one wants. He’ll soon anounce that the answer to all of Cayman’s finical problems is a casino

    • Sav/New says:

      Seems that all he’s doing is making things up as he goes along and getting people all worked up. Isn’t he misleading people to a certain extent. He is a disgrace to be called LEADER of these islands. They need to vote his sorry a$$ OUT or throw him out! Ban him from ever running for an election again.   

    • Anonymous says:

      Right on the money! Same goes for the North Sound dredging – the lesser evil will be to put the dock in Half Moon Bay. Its a pity so many of us have our eyes wide shut to the real intentions.

  91. Anonymous says:

    This type of flip-flop is exactly what business doesn’t like.  You can not attract companies and prosperity by being vague or deceptive about your intentions.  One week there is "no-tax" and "we don’t need one red cent of Mother uk’s money". The next week it’s "boy,the other guys messed up" and "we’re broke".  You can’t have it both ways Mac. This type of slip-talk is poison in the well and makes it look like government doesn’t know what it’s doing. Suggest you come up with a plan to add 10% utilities tax added to CUC bills (mentioned elsewhere) and some other fees.  Perhpas tax resort properties at 5% of assessed value per year when they are not active (ie abandoned Hyatt Britania north of bypass) to prod them to re-open. The dirty truth is that all those unfairly maligned foreigners who quietly come here to work, and keep their heads down and mind their own business, will soon be packing up and moving to greener pastures once your income tax that isn’t, comes into being.   ""A community fee or local tax, which would, he explained, have to be linked to payroll. Although the details of the proposal have not have been finalized… it would be based on earnings"".  Do you honestly for ten seconds believe that anyone would stay here in the face of THAT? A local tax linked to payroll based on earnings. I came here to avoid that crap. Fuel the jet, we’re outa here.

    • Anonymous says:

      The jet is fully fueled .. go!  I doubt anyone will miss you much. Selfishness and greed is not we need in this difficult time.

      • True Caymanian says:

        "The jet is fully fueled .. go!  I doubt anyone will miss you much. Selfishness and greed is not we need in this difficult time."

        Stop being a wanker.  There is nothing wrong with pointing out the truth that most expats come here for their tax free income.  I mean our beaches and palm trees are nice and all, but they really come for the tax free incomes.  If we take that away, they might stop coming, and a decrease in the business that they bring in will have major consequences for our national revenues.  It’s them and the tourists.  That’s where our money comes from.  Sure they fill our roads, but the inflow of money brings jobs and drives our domestic economy.  It’s a valid point to raise.

        Plus you are being rude.  It’s not the Caymanian way.

        • Anonymous says:

          U can pack and go too luv.

          • True Caymanian says:

            You first, wanker. 

            PS – I am not your "luv".  I am your worst freakin’ nightmare.

            • True Caymanian? says:

              Nice!!

              Now that is True Caymanian Hospitality at its finest…

              Do you actually think that made you look smart?  Or attractive?

              I will give you one thing – sadly, you are right, the modern True Caymanian is everyone’s worst freakin’ nightmare?  Do you not see this?

              And you are a shining example, oh warrior in tinfoil vest!!!

        • WB says:

          You are right, being rude is not the Caymanian way.  However, what good can come from all this money flowing in and all these jobs being created, when qualified Caymanians can’t get a decent job?  We proceed to let our hospitality and good manners slap us across the mouth and shut us up. 

    • Anonymous says:

      Many expats move here because they don’t want to pay tax.  In return, they put up with being "second-class citizens".  Why on earth would they stay and continue to be abused, if we’re going to tax them too!

  92. Anonymous says:

    Community Fee or local tax linked to Payroll.

    Isnt that the same as income tax.

    Call it what you like Mr. Bush but in my book any taxes linked to Payroll is an Income Tax.

  93. Anonymous says:

    This is absolutely not necessary. Government has totally lost sight of the essence of Cayman in their pursuit of the almighty dollar. It is almost as if to say, "Live by the dollar, die by the dollar."

    Cayman existed quite happily before without this massive borrowing and it needs to become more self-sufficient.

    Mr. Bush, you are going to need to grow a pair and cut government down to a manageable size. This is your time, you are at the helm, not Kurt nor anyone else. If the ship is heading toward the rocks, then it is the captain’s duty to change course.

    Change course, sir. Cut away the fat. Stimulate the good. Take sound advice and remember your roots. I appeal to you tonight in the name of all that is good.

  94. Anonymous says:

    A payroll tax is good……

    …. for many WB voters. Those who need a little "hep" each month will not be affected at all.

  95. Anonymous says:

    Would someone please explain how payroll tax differs from income tax?  Never mind.  There is no difference.

  96. Adam Smith says:

    So we are getting an income tax then.  It is all downhill from here.

  97. NO TAX... says:

    If there is ANY Tax at all, I want it in blood from the LOGB that this is a one off and they will rescind it when times get better…

    But I also dream of a lot of other things, so…

    Let’s face it, you bring in a tax, you open the door to increases and taxes by other names. 

    Cayman is done.

    My prophecy (in stone if desired…) –

    It will be 2% now, and within a few years it will be 10%, 20%, 40%…

    Trust me…

    Once Government gets wind of this easy way to bleed the populus, and it will NEVER END!!!

    Mac, me lad, you may have it 100% in your heart that this is a one-off, low tax…  But in 50 years, they will be burning effigies of you as subsequent governments increase and broaden the income tax.

    DO NOT GO DOWN THIS ROAD – I promise you – it is a VERY slipery slope…

    Check the reality of other societies who implemented a "small" tax for now…

     

    • Anonymous says:

      You are right.  What happens with all these taxes is they start low and then pop up, and up, and up. It’s not by intention. Governments have to raise them because they get hooked on the crack-cocaine of easy money, and as more people opt out of the system and leave the island, they  have to keep raising taxes on the diminishing pool of suckers who stay behind. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and this is the type of action nobody wants a piece of. Government is in a tough spot because if the UK flag leaves here, business will feel vulnerable and leave.  But the UK government by trying to make us play by the fiscal rules we set for ourselves. A classic catch 22.  The answer is to stay British and bite the bitter pill by stopping projects, firing people, scaling back and privatizing.  Very very unpopular choices.  TAXes will mean an exodus though.  It will be a revolutionary and massive mistake.  Interesting to watch though..  Interesting times.

       

    • anonymous1 says:

      Good bye cayman.Remember  the good old days and talk about them a few years from now.  I told you all that you curse the poor jacans and abused them any way you could, I told ya, your wealth wont last forever, you could be in the same mess that them poor jacans are too, so you see its coming at us fast. Now where are we going to run to, which other island will take us in. Spit in the sky?  it falls in your face.

  98. Spade a spade says:

    Payroll tax linked to earnings = income tax.

    Beginning of the end.