Mac vows rollover revamp
(CNS): The controversial rollover policy is to be changed, the premier has announced. Although he did not reveal the details, McKeeva Bush told the business community that there would be a number of changes coming in the arena of immigration. Revealing that certain categories of jobs within the financial services have now already been identified to receive three-year permits, he promised that, from now on, the business community can look forward to a more efficient immigration service. Speaking at the Cayman Business Outlook, he also said that, although government revenue was down $30 million in the first half of the fiscal year, government spending was down $37 million.
In what he admitted was a long presentation at the opening of the Cayman Business Outlook conference this morning, Bush spoke on a wide range of topics, from tourism to inward investment, as well as his goal to privatize and “divest” some of the services currently offered by government. However, Bush’s primary focus was on changes and improvements to the country’s immigration policy. The premier told the audience that Cayman needed to make fundamental changes to the way the country approaches economic development and tackle the realities of the global economy.
He emphasized his belief that Cayman should embrace wealth or reap poverty, and to do the former the country need to encourage business to stay and that meant giving them the things they needed, including work permits. Bush explained that a group had been formed to direct policy for the relevant boards, to give directives aimed at providing relief, and protection for the financial services. A list of financial sector jobs have now been designated as key and three-year permits will be granted to people in those posts. The changes would, he said, result in more efficient work permit allocation and security for employers.
Bush observed that it was very important for the industry to take this action and the directives should have an immediate impact. He said that, while some people had criticized these changes, they had offered no alternative solutions.
“It’s not acceptable for us to drive existing business away with an inflexible policy,” the premier said, adding that he had never heard so many “no’s” as those in immigration. “We must be responsive to the key drivers of jobs for Caymanians.”
He said he wanted to not only encourage new investment but address existing concerns and prevent any more businesses from leaving. He said that while immigration was not the only thing that mattered, it was critical to maintain success. ‘If we don’t address this, firms will relocate and Caymanians will be even poorer,” he suggested.
Bush explained that when a firm is denied permits for two senior positions, that resulted in several less jobs for Caymanians. “Why should we sit back and allow this to happen?”
Criticising the last government for their view that when a foreign worker departed a Caymanian would fill the role, he said it was a “fool, fool idea”.
He said government must look at the totality of the situation and it was not about protecting one or two posts for Caymanians but about protecting dozens of middle management positions for Caymanians, as well as training programmes for them.
The UDP has always been about a true partnership with the business community, Bush said, and while he had supported the rollover policy, he had not supported the divisive way it was implement by the previous government. Therefore it would be revamped during the next sitting of the Legislative Assembly, he said.
Promising change, Bush asked the business community not to send anymore business away.
Check back later today for more coverage of the CBO conference and details of the premier’s speech.
Category: Headline News
How many native Caymanians are there? by Native I mean one grandparent and a parent must be born in Cayman Islands and if we are luck enough to find 10,000 do you truly believe all of us will be able to sustain the economic miracle we have today, if this is the case then let us throw all the foreigns out and if not shut up because we cannot live without foreigners even those without millions of dollars to invest.
Dacat, if you have to ask, there’s not much point answering you. Try asking all the major law firms here who, largely speaking, are the "financial industry".
Why are we blaming the foreigners we invited them here, gave them jobs, marry them, gave them residency and status allow them into our society and if they changed it we encouraged them to do it now, we complain. We Caymanians must learn that we cannot have our cake and eat it too, just don’t work that way. It is what it is… we are now in the minority so we might as well get use to it. We need the foreigners more than they need us. We no longer control the finances, or the land holdings in this our country any longer and pretty soon we will no longer have the political control and we must admit it because it’s true. we need to be really nice to the foreigners or else we will lose all and become poor again as the Premier have warned us about and believe me it will come true, we cannot afford to let the foreigners go who will buy our land and house rent our properties and spend in our supermarkets and businesses. If the foreigners leave we will have nothing. So we better be nice to them and don’t rock the boat.
Mckeeva is a big "SELLOUT" that’s just what some of you get for voting the UDP in now look who’s laughing last? Imagine he can stand there and say that…. that when a foreign worker departed a Caymanian would fill the role, he said it was a “fool, fool idea”
LMAO, no he just didnt say that? Well you bets believe he did? That’s showing you how he really thinks of his own Caymanians…dont you all get it yet? What he’s saying here is that he think his own Caymanian people are unqualified to fill such a position, when a foreigner leaves that position.
The LOGB may be correct at times about qualifications……BUT the LOGB and many of his predeccessors have continued to ignore REAL education for Caymanians. Just think where the Caymanian people would be if 3 decades ago when we had lots of dosh that we had the best education + scholership system in the region. We wouldn’t be talking endlessly about expats/rollover/immigration…..
If Big Mac says so it’s true he is a God fearing and honest man, the best from the West and he will be in government for life because he is a good and smart man. He wants prosperity for this country at all cost as long as it is by honest means. He need to sell the dock, and every piece of land in the north sound that foreigners need to get mega yachts in, and all the services that cost government lots of money to manager sell it all to the private sector they will do a good job of it just look at Caymana Bay, thank God for Mr. Dart, if we continue to vote for Mr. Bush he will attract the rich people and make cayman like Monacco.
mckeeva is doing this for the foreingers he promised them during the election that he would help them, but we are getting ready for the 2013 elections want to keep cayman for the natives put back KURT TIBBETTS hes the only one that looks out for us natives mckeeva is for the foreingers not caymanians.
Oh please, Kurt Tibbetts is like McKeeva, full of hot air.
Does this man still have a clear head? This story is unbelievable and an insult to every Caymanian as are the insulting posts from the emboldened foreign element. The "roll over" has little to do with foreign investment moving. The high cost of living does and if Bush truly wanted to encourage investment he would not have introduced the huge increase in fees. what is it that he does not get?
Instead of bashing immigration I suggest that some Bush’s supporters on here go sit him down and try to get through his head that it is his increased fee structure and not immigration. Loud warnings of it what he is doing to this lovely little country need to be issued.
Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a leader whom they consider god fearing and pious anon 1:27 leave this man he like others will have to leave here when thetime comes.
The premier is doing a super job I hope all of us will continue to embrace wealth and not poverty, foreigners and lots of people and soon all of us will be so rich that the Cayman Islands will be the richest nation in the world. I am sure that when Dr. Shetty builds his new hospital and the employees that he will have to import will be very good for all of us. Look at the rent, spending on the island, purchase of property, cars and personal items oh I can hardly wait for the economic benefits that just one hospital will bring. Can you imagine when all the investors with 5 million or more come in to invest and bring all their families, friends and help we will have so much people that we do not have to worry too much when the cruise ships can’t come in due to bad weather. Mr. Bush you are doing a good job, get rid of the roll over and any immigration restrictions and let people in the country as we need all the foreigners to function.
Why don’t we just introduce a waiver system for status. many expats don’t want it, they just want to live here.
The simplest way is to have the person go down to the immigration department and sign the waiver in front of a JP or notary public and that way no one can say that the employer forcedthem to do it.
I agree with this post. Only in my opinion, most ex-pats (Canadians) do not want to live here for ever. We don’t want to live here for the rest of our lives.
In 2004, when the roll-over policy came into effect, I called Ms. Barrie Quappe on the Early Morning Talk Show which she co-hosted with Mr. Elio Solomon then, before she was over-rolled herself, if there’s a waiver form I can sign in single space, front-to-back, assuring the Immigration that I only want to work and not dying to be a Permanent Resident or Paper Caymanian.
If I remember right, she said, there’s no such thing.
Come to think of it, my compelling reason for not being interested in changing my current nationality to being ‘Caymanian’ is that I do not want to be buried on or near the beach. My family, relatives and friends are half-way around the world, who would be visiting my grave on All Saints/Souls Day? Besides, 10-15 years from now, I wonder if there’s still a gravesite there, having been eaten by the sea?
This has of course been considered before. It would not be worth the paper it is written on. The courts are the view that there are some ‘rights’ that you cannot waive. Any such purported waiver would likely be found unenforceable.
If you foreigners on here are trying to make Caymanians hate you more you are doing a fine job of it. The insults thrown at the Caymanian people on here is amazing, down right nasty and uncalled for. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. Many of you forign people have come here from foreign lands that have obviously failed failed you, otherwise you would not be here. I embrace every moment and the wonderful Caymanian people who have welcomed me as a guest worker in this lovely country. They allow me to make a good living here and I am grateful unlike some of you ungrateful morons posting on here. I came knowing full well that at the end of 7 years I would depart but could be allowed to return for another 7 years thereafter. I have invested here and I consider myself one who has integrated successfully in the wonderful Caymanian community. Many of you whining and throwing slurrs here should have done the same and you would know that there is much greater wealth to be gained beyond the tons of money that you are being allowed to make. May I also point out to those who claim there are no indigenous Caymanians that there are but few countries in this world who can today claim a truly indigenous people. What is happening here is akin to what occurred in America with the American Indians, Australia with the Aboriginees and others. Indeed I hope that the Caymanian people will rise up and take their country back … the Caribbean has a history of that happening so who knows!
A nation of sheep shall be ruled by pigs
Thank you poster 01/21/2010 – 15:53. Since your post the now empowered foreign community have taken over and the Caymanian bashing is upfront and personal. That said, I thank you very much for highlighting the fact that it was indeed the mouthy premier who helped to orchestrate the "roll over" policy tht he is now referring to as "fool fool". I suppose it is time for Caymanians to be reminded that a country deserves the government it elects and we are all fool fool to have elected this poorly educated and easily manipulated man to high office.
Cayman’s rollover policy means that educated, hardworking people who have lived peacefully on the island for 7 years are asked to leave even though no caymanian is able to their job??????…alice in wonderland stuff….
When the rollover kicked in, that was the beginning of the decline of the Cayman Islands.
People started saving their money instead of spending it locally as they didn’t know what lay ahead of them. Some small businesses ended up having to close their doors.
People stopped buying property – because whats the point ? Rental properties were in abundance as people were forced to lock their doors and leave their homes. At the same time tennant numbers were declining, leaving a glut of rental properties.
House foreclosures also seem to be on the increase too looking at the ads in the Cayman Compass.
Companies were losing experienced staff often with little or no notice. If they had applied for a key employee position and that was declined – that was it – no notice period – just finish. Go – 14 – 30 days to pack up your life as you know it.
All this has a knock on effect on efficiency, prices, and on the economy in general.
At least McKeeva sees and understands the situation and is trying to rectify it. Everyone should support him.
Lets hope its not too late.
You have summarised my time here. As soon as I arrived, because of rollover, I was focussed on the "long game" – save as much as possible, spend as little as possible, rent and keep my eye on the next job. While I would like to say I had better intentions, since I knew my long term plans lay elsewhere I had no real means of internalising the long term interests of Cayman.
And now why are you still here?
Because I am still saving my money, spending as little as possible etc. But I know I am going to leave in the next couple of years which makes every dollar saved all the better.
House foreclosures being caused by the roll-over policy??? Hmmm. The international financial crisis didnt have anything to do with that?
As regards notice period, seven years isnt enough notice?
Also, the glut of rental properties available stems from Hurricane Ivan. After the storm, there was a shortage of rental properties available. Rental property owners were in some cases charging double for properties that were still rentable because people needed places to live and were desperate. Contracters and investors saw this and started building more and more condos in an effort to capitalise. After a few years as insurance companies paid out and people generally got the damaged homes and condos back on the market, there was and is of course too many rental properties to meet the demand. To support your arguments, the population of the Cayman islands would have to significantly have decreased as a result of the roll over policy. It did not.
expats who find out they have to leave in 7 years will not buy property… hence the slump in the property market……
Most expats here are unable to afford the expensive properties, so please go try again for another excuse to dismantle the roll over policy.
That is a comment without thought or backing. I was an expat – I owned a home as well as most of my friends who were expats.
I think the age of the ex pat depends more on their being able to afford a home as it does with most nationalities.
I would still buy a home if I am going to live in a country for seven years but would perhaps by more strategically – when I bought I had permanent home in mind not knowing I would have to leave. Seven years of renting is a waste of money with no return, no matter how you look at it.
If people know that they have to leave in seven years and still chose to move to Cayman and settle that’s one thing, but many of us were there and settled when the policy was put into place. We were truly screwed to put it mildly.
My wife and I both work as professionals. We can afford a large property here – especially with equity built up onshore in the boom years. But there is no way we would buy here mainly because we know that we will be asked to leave in the coming years. The stamp duty, fees and bleak prospects for Cayman’s future are part of the equation too. And therefore we invest and save and think of our future back home.
If by "most expats" you meant the gardeners and other unskilled labour I agree, however the brain-drain of the professional rocket-scientist types is the real concern. Having them go home or go to a competing jurisdiction damages Cayman’s overall talent pool, and those people clearly can afford the expensive properties.
Expensive properties? compared to the UK Cyaman property is still cheap
I sold a one bed apartment and got a 2 bed 2.5 bath townhouse near SMB for less
Many professional expats already have been working 6-12 years in their professional career before coming to Cayman and would have generally just finished off paying thier university loans.
The roll over policy is obviously working but unfortunately intellect and the ability to understand cannot be bought.
Your rolling over the WRONG people!
Why is it that so many people think that the roll over policy is not effecting the economy of the Island?
There are three groups of people on the Island.
1. Forever here: Spend, Spend, Spend. (all I have is here)
2. Might be forever here: Save, Save. Save. (I’m getting ready, just in case)
3. Milk the Cow, dont give a @#$%. (Spend nothing, send everthing)
I feel sure that #1 would be the type of people we wan’t here, #2 would be worth trying to keep. #3 Roll THEM over.
When Immigration makes a desision to refuse a permit, residency or status, why can’t the applicant or the employer be at the appeal hearing and give their side of the story? Lets help the Companies that are a benifit to society and close the ones that are just there for coveniance.
They can be at the hearing.
go and read the law, you can attend the appeal hearing.
You forgot
4. Milk the cow, dont give a @#$%^^. (work little, complain a lot)
Anon 13:16, do you realise that it was Mckeeva Bush & the UDP that introduced & passed the "rollover" legislation in late 2004? Are you now saying that Mckeeva Bush was wrong in the first place but is now correct in changing his own law? The PPM government inherited the "rollover" policy when they were elected into government in May 2005, & they simply carried on what the UDP introduced & passed into law! For you to now criticize the law while telling people to not criticize the very person who was behind the law in the first place does not make sense.
This is another example of what is one of Mckeeva Bush’s problems. He acts before he thinks & then on most occasions has to "back back" on what he has done. I fully support the rollover policy. Cayman needed it decades ago & we wouldn’t be in the position we are now in (outnumbered by foreigners, "strangers" in our own country), & I sure don’t agree that "everyone should support him" as you suggest. Do you remember when the PPM reduced the 2 year period to 1 year? Do you remember the outcry & cussing by Caymanians about that reduction? I know that the majority of true Caymanians will not take too kindly to Mckeeva Bush’s plans. Caymanians are shocked with what he had to say about immigration reform. Thousands of Caymanians are out of work, & Mr. Bush’s words did not comfort us any. In fact his words made me sick. I see where his loyalty lies. I suppose in this case "the smell of money is stronger than blood"!!
You are extremely perceptive. Unfortunately 1 in 3 people cannot connect your dots. They will say its the international crisis not realizing Cayman has been in decline for five years while the crisis has only been two years. According to many, the global economy is on the mend, yet are we still declining? Why? Denial is not just a river in Egypt. All the international crisis did was expedite our problems. Now we are in a situation where our competitors, because of the crisis, have lowered their prices. What is our solution? Can we not help ourselves?
I have worked in the Financial Industry in an excess of 12 years, and I still have to come across one individual who has the proper qualifications and experience, has made some investment in the Island and attempted to integrate themselves in Cayman’s society and has been rolled over. Please, how many of you actually know one of those individuals who fit the above description and have been rolled????
Yes, I do. I’m trying to convince him to send his story to CNS for the viewpoints section.
He has to have actually applied if his story is to count, and his employer cannot have lied to immigration.
And be very very careful if your story relates to an IT professional…
Me.
Facts?
I can say I know of two persons myself. It does happen.
I continue to believe that Medium Mac’s vision of successful Cayman is to increase the population. I see 100K population if Mac has his way. Consumption goes up on all levels, homes (he is in real estate after all), retail, work permits, visitors etc.
The part of the equation Medium Mac may not have considered is the cost of the necessary infrastructure, nor the impact/disenfranchisement of Caymanians when the population continues to bulge.
I watch with interest tosee how many policy decisions Mac will make to promote the growth of the population.
I personally know of several. Who you really need to ask is the Appeals Tribunal. I understand appeals are in the hundreds.
Since there is no appeal of akey employee denial possible, you plainly have your facts confused. The appeals tribunal deals with denials of PR, and work permits. It has no jurisdiction to deal with people who are being rolled over because they are not key employees.
A little knowledge is dangerous. Thousands of people were here 7 years or more when the new law came into effect in January 2004. Because they were here 7 years or more, none of these people had to seek key employee status. However, many, even with homes, were denied residency. All of these people had the right to appeal. Due to an ineffective system, most who appealed are still waiting for a decision. I’m guessing, but a good deal are now probably here more than ten years and it should become a human rights issue. However, good luck finding an attorney who will fight for this cause out of fear of his firm not getting future permits.
I hope you have benefitted from the enlightenment.
Because of Cayman’s Convention obligations, anyone who had their appeal refused would probably be entitled to residence now anyway.
Please elaborate because you put the words " foreigner" and "entitled" in the same sentence. As I said before, good luck finding even one lawyer in Cayman with enough courage to take this on.
In the UK, or as others might call it ‘the real world’ this is what happens. People who do well at high school go on to University, when they graduate from University a few years later they begin to look for work. Now, here’s the difficult part, that many people on this forum seem to have trouble understanding, unless that Graduate graduated in the top 1% of his or her graduating year from one of the top Universities in the country they will not be headhunted, they will not secure an elevated position in one of the top law/accounting/banking firms in the country. What will happen, what happened to me, what happened to my husband, what happened to all of my friends is that we took low paid work as assistant business analysts, administration clerks, accounting support administrators, we all earned less than $25k a year to begin with, we were at work fifteen minutes before the working day began, we took one hour and one hour only for lunch, we never, ever left before 5. This pattern had to continue for years. Some of us decided to do professional qualifications to further enhance our chances of one day getting promotion. Three people I know had it paid for by work, the rest, including me, paid for it ourselves. Now fast forward to ten years later. Ten years after graduating from University, four years after qualifying as a Chartered Accountant, now one can expect to reap the rewards for what amounts to almost fifteen years of studying and hard work. Now one can expect to earn $100,000, now one can expect to have more flexibility. This is what you can expect when you are in a management position, a position you have to work hard at, to achieve. This is the truth, this is what really happens everywhere else in the world. This bubble of protectionism in Cayman will burst, it is unsustainable.
While at university, I was one of the lucky few to be honoured with a very junior clerkship at a leading financial services firm. Initial salary was less than $20k/year, but the work experience was invaluable. We didn’t take lunch (though we were entitled to take an hour), sick days and vacation were shunned, the pace and competitive effort was always high. I volunteered to do extra work to stand out. We worked long hours into the evening without expectation of overtime pay and were dedicated to proving our competency in order to earn more responsibility. The drive to be exceptional was the key to getting noticed and promoted. I don’t believe my story is dissimilar to most of the top pros here.
The reality is that Cayman is too small and specialized to offer enough of those types of opportunities for the young to prove themselves. If I were a driven young Caymanian with aspirations to compete in the global financial sector (at a high level), I would look for junior work at big firms in an international proving ground like New York, San Fran, London, or Toronto; demonstrate yourself there, then come looking for specialized work at home if the right opportunity presented itself. Statistically, few people (expat or otherwise) will make it to senior levels without the requisite effort and commitment. Young Caymanians need to manage their expectations and make plans to prove themselves.
With all of your management experience and qualifications it amazes me that you do not know the difference between "no" and "now". After seeing the error repeated several times I thought it would be kind of me to pointit out to you.
After learning that little lesson you may want to turn to the "protectionism" theory you refer to in your post. Surely you could never be suggesting that protection for Caymanians exist! You foreigners have full control .. our newly elected "premier" is givng you everything so I don’t know why you are complaining … aaah .. I forget .. you folks will never be satisfied.
Take the time to reread my post and you’ll see that I intended to say exactly what is written, I most certainly wasn’t intending to say ‘no one’, believe me.
My post was putting forward my experience of what amounts studying and hard work have to be put into attaining a higher position, and stating my belief that Caymanians cannot expect to put in any less effort than anyone else does to get to the same positions. It’s not only about a degree, it’s not only about professional qualifications, it’s not only about experience, it’s not only about hard work, it’s about all of these things put together over a long period of time. Yes, Caymanians are currently protected against this. And please note as soon as you start posting using terms like ‘you foreigners’ you become a bigot in my eyes and so you’re attempts to make me look like a fool don’t particularly concern me.
Yes Star CR Hill you like the rest of the johnny come lately crew did not build this yet you all want to inherit all its benefits. Who brought these falsehoods and misconceptions here, now you want to turn up your noses withdisgust towards us. Once again for the benefit of those who do not know banking in the Cayman Islands started when all the Caymanian seamen who were sending money through Jamaica to Cayman encourage the establishment of a Bank to send money to here? in the 1950’s. Yes and please apply the same standard you speak to those coming here to" work" and make money No one Owes you a Life.
Good Lord, 16:46, now I’ve heard it all. It was the seamen who started the financial services industry here! The truly sad and pathetic thing is that you probably really believe that total rubbish.
Thats another thing we have an issue with you folks who want to rewrite our history. Actually it was the government Savings bank in 1908. However they could not carry commercial transactions or solve the shortages of cash so the merchants & Seamen had to post in either Jamaica or Miami. Most banks in Jamaica refused to open a bank branch in Cayman until Barclays DCO in March 1953 at Dr Roy’s parlour on South Church Street. This was a result of monies from seamen and merchant who also own vessels, it was so profitable that Royal Bank of Canada came in 1963 to G/Town. I wish people like you would take the time to research or read our history rather than take the Lord’s name in vain on this forum. Go sit down that,s exactly what people like you brought here rubbish.
Banks, my dear Sun 12:37, are not the same thing as "financial services industry". I would have thought that was obvious. Many countries-most in fact- have banks but do not have a "financial services industry" remotely similar to Cayman’s. No one denies the importance of the establishment of banks here to accept money from whomever had it to deposit -including, but not exclusively, seamen. But seamen did NOT set up our financial services industry here and to say so is absurd in the extreme and an excellent example of "rewriting our history".
One question explain to us how the financial industry works with out banking.
Hedge funds, Special Purpose Vehicles, Trusts. Need I go on? The laws are actually more important than the banks as the money can be held anywhere in the world (typically in US brokerage houses). We used to have 550 banks, what are we down to now? 200?
As a declining offshore centre, we need open our minds to technology, higher education, fierce competition and offer more stability. Its not too late as we still have a brand name. Let’s not shoot ourselves in the foot.
So getting a bank makes a financial industry / offshore centre? So any country with a bank is an offshore centre?
Oh it is all about the wonderful world class (ie cheap) seamen again. And I thought the boom was because Cayman happily turned a blind eye to tax fraud and money laundering for the first few decades until the industry had built up. Silly me.
Why not tax the churches and charge permit fees for Pastors Etc.
That would bring in some much needed cash for the Government.
I don’t see why they should be exempt, everybody needs to pay their way.
I don’t know why anyone would want to come back after being discarded like a piece of nothing!
Some were forced to leave not only their homes of 7 to 9 years, dear friends and even children behind.
People were already on the Island, bore children, built homes, etc when the roll over policy was put into place. Therefore they set roots without knowing they go through such upheaval. Had they been told of this when their first work permit was applied for they may have thought twice about coming to the Island, or at the least about putting down serious roots, forming relationships or having children here.
I don’t know who would uproot their families, resettle them only to uproot them again six months later, a year later or whatever the time period may be changed to, to return to a country that discarded them. Not many families would do that and families are really what end up making a community a home. People with children care about their surroundings, the schools, the economy, environment etc. because they have their children’s future at stake!
If Cayman wants to go back to a country with people who care, who reach out to other nationalities with open arms, who see others as equal no matter where they are from, and to be treated as such, then maybe this law should be abolished all together and new permits restricted to control population. Perhaps a Cayman that has people who feel a part of the country, who have developed a sense of loyalty to the people of the country would be a better and safer place to live. Maybe then it wouldn’t be Caymanians against Ex-Pats and all would become one. There would be less threat and competition, less hard feelings and resentment, no more claims that Ex-Pats are there to take what they can get and leave, and overall everyone would care about Cayman!
Right now it seems that fewer and fewer people are caring about Cayman, more are becoming angry with the laws and constant upheaval, and some are even ashamed to be Caymanian.
At the same time the crime rate and level of violence is increasing daily – coincidence? I think not.
I agree wholeheartedly with this post. The rollover discourages any foreign worker from laying down roots or looking at a future on the islands, therefore they don’t care about the islands long term future, why would they, they will have been deposrted in a few years?
This is why the housing market is in decline and will continue downwards and like this poster quite rightly says, that is why crime is rising, because people just don’t care about the island any more, and why should they?
Personally when I came here I had high hopes of starting a new life and maybe laying some roots here, but quickly discovered that this is not possible, partly because of crazy immigration rules and partly because of bad attitudes of locals towards expats and the ever increasing mountain of inequities between the treatment of locals and expats, the lack of human rights, a lack of employment rights and the government enforced BS we have to go through for even the simplest thing.
Now like everybody else I am just battling my way through the fixed term contract, saving as much money as I can and spending as little money locally as possible, so that I can afford to move somewhere better that will be more accepting and welcoming, whilst trying to avoid getting shot by one of the out of control criminals or bashed to death with a bible wielded by one of the zealots.
Great – then how do you pay for the literally tens of thousands of immigrants that would be able to arrive from other countries as dependants of the tens of thousands of former work permit holders, with no ability to support themselves or their kin.
Be tighter with permits as an alternative – OK – I need to set up a funds administration business in Cayman and need 700 permits. No, you’ve tightened up? Oh well, I’m off to India then.
Answer those , and I too will call for an abolition of rollover.
You are being too simplistic.
Mac also vows no more pension paid out to expats whenthe Work Permits would increase.
To Fri 22 – 1:22 quote "Some were forced to leave not only their homes of 7 to 9 years, dear friends and evenchildren behind.
People were already on the Island, bore children, built homes, etc when the roll over policy was put into place." unquote
You did not get your information right before coming here, you should have read the laws properly – people could only stay here for a limited time but our Govt. was not strict enough on enforcing and upholding these laws so people were taking advantage of the situation and renewing and renewing and renewing permits over and over again until they enforced the present roll-over policy. Immigration and the Government need to get their act together and enforce Laws properly and don’t let the people of the Cayman Islands look like they are committing a criminal act by trying to protect their own land!! Bless the Caymanian that can go to another’s country for 7 years without obeying the laws!!
why is everything only about the Caymanians? in the states expats and Americans live together perfectly fine. this states Caymanians are jealous
absolute B.S. the United Statess is no example of how to handle foreigners. they were founded upon aliens and do not want anyone in their country while they are in everyone else’s country trying to tell them how to run it. theycan not run their own affairs.
They despise foreigners and have impossible immigration laws in place.
We must do better. They do not live together perfectly fine, they live in separate neighborhoods, the US is still a segregated country eventhough they have a black president.
if you think I’m lying, visit their churcheses on a Sunday Morning. Sunday Morning is the most segregated day in America ! we must set our own standards, and not adapt those of a failing nation.
Really? More than likely you listen to the crap media that is BS that does not represent the people in the U.S. Yes, there is anger aganst ILLEGAL aliens, but people that work in the U.S. with a valid, legitimate green card are welcomed and accepted into American society. America is a melting pot and they do not exclude families from joining their working family members – not like here. The children of those families are allowed to attend public school – not like here. Minimum wages are in place to prevent slave labor – not like here. The employment commissions actually go after employers who don’t live up to the law – not like here. Employers will not tolerate bad behavior – not like here. Gee, descrimination? Wow! None of that here, huh? Before you start bashing another country you better look in your own back yard. Oh, by the way – those ugly Americans? They bring millions of dollars to this country every year.
Have you lived as a foreigner in the US? I have done so (officially and with the proper permit) and not experienced what you set out above. I struggled to get the same health insurance (because I was a foreigner), I struggled with the 401K (because I was a foreigner). I struggled with the SS# (because I was a foreigner), scholarships where few and far in between because I was not a minority. Is it doable to live in the US as a foreigner? Absolutely, but it sure isn’t as easy as you make it sound. The reason for the schools are obviously tax driven. In the US, everyone pays taxes and as such the US can afford to educate the children of foreigners. Don’t think you can compare Cayman to the US until the day when you start paying 30% of your income to the Government. Why don’t you compare it to some other Islands and Countries. Look at Jersey or Bermuda for example. I believe there you are not even allowed to purchase property if you are a foreigner. I think that would be a more realistic comparions. Currently, you are comparing apples and oranges
I have lived in America and amongst racism and unbelievable prejudice so please do not come on here claiming that it is a wonderul, peaceful country. Those of us who lived there know different. I am not Caymanian but the way foreigners come on this forum and bash the Caymanian people behaving as if they have more rights than they do makes it easy for me to understand why the dislike us!
If the foreigners stay here long enough as planned then they will no longer be foreigners but "Caymanian" and then the workforce will be Caymanian – ever thought of that – or what are you saying – that once a foreigner becomes a Caymanian then he is no longer hired and they send for "new" foreigners.
There are 11,000 Jamaicans just on work permit here, not to mention all there (deliberate spelling mistake to appeal to the locals) dependents… how many ‘proper’ caymanians are there here again (not including the ones who’ve left because the rest of the world is better) ? the government needs the money from the work permits, so ignore any posturing about roll over or ‘getting rid of foreign workers’. There actually are no indigenous caymanians, as indigenous actually means ‘originating in and naturally living, growing, or occurring in a region or country’. Soooo, by definition, there are no indigenous Caymanians… as the place was empty until Columbus popped ashore in what is the european equivilent of five minutes ago, YOU ARE ALL FORGEIGNERS.
get over it, get along, or get independent, and at that point Cayman, you will be comprehensively bent over the table by the rest of the world…
And before you get your knickers in a twist, no, i’m not in your country, i was, but saw sense, and yes you can say ‘good riddance’ but I CHOSE to leave, after i saw one too many f’ed up local travesties. There are gays there, local, expat, powerful and nobodies (look them up on tagged or facebook) some shut the f up cayman, and get with the program!
The truth is 95% of Caymanians are Jamaicans who have been here a little longer than the Jamaicans they look down own.
or Scottish, or English, or Irish….really…is there any such thing as a true Caymanian? How long do you have to be here to become one?
As someone said…time to get "with it" and stop the racism which you also deny being!
Simple – a Caymanian is someone with status.
A true Caymanian is someone with status who regards Cayman as home.
What the Premier said this morning just does not add up, if you look at the Government’s budget, more than 80% of it is in "fixed costs" such as personnel, rent, depreciation, funding to statutory authorities such as CIMA, payments to indigents, veterans etc.
We have not seen any or heard of any mass layoffs in the Civil service or change in Government policies regarding expenses. On the contrary, we have heard of over a million extra being spent on clean up and we all know the jet engine doesn’t even get a chance to cool before its fired up again for the Premier’s next trip.
How is it then that he has saved $37 million in 6 months. If he continues, that would be a $74 million saving for the full year or almost 50% of the soft costs.
That said, while I can understand how he can fool the general population because they don’t know any better, what I can’t figure out is how he is fooling Chris and the other guys at the FCO. They get copies of all the Cabinet paper and Notes, how is it that they don’t know that the true financial position is way worse than what he has told the public this morning?
It probably has something to do with Ken Jefferson accounting 101. If the bills are not sent to Treasury then there were no expenses. Wait, that’s called cash accounting. Looks like Ezzard has managed to throw out the cumbersome accounting system after all.
If we are back to cash accounting, can some tell me where the cash from the bond issue went? I’m particularly interested in seeing how much HSBC received for their efforts.
Had the government not shut down the school projects, there would be no reduction in spending.
That’s capital though, we are doing accrual accounting so that wouldn’t impact the revenue. hmmm, puzzling, perhaps he should say what areas he has found the savings
Many countries encourage their young people to further their education after public schooling. Because it’s necessary in order to be competitive in the workforce. But that’s it. They only encourage it and it’s up to the students to take it further. As an example, all three of my daughters have furthered their education. One went to law school. All three are tens of thousands of dollars in debt with student loans which will take years to pay off. They don’t sit around and bitch and moan they can’t find work (which often they haven’t been able to) because of "foreigners" "stealing" their jobs. Because they know it won’t help. At some point you have to get off your a** and aquire an education and go look for work. But…if you’d rather sit around and bitch and moan that’s ok too. Just be aware many of us are getting weary hearing about it.
The same dilemma as the UK EU USA are suffering is what our illustrious premo is trying to sell us Why should we be rewarding certain economic interest on this island for creating the current situation we now suffer from those who cause this scrutiny from their dubious or unscrupulous business transactions should head to more favourable jurisdictions. So they can continue in what we claim we will no longer allow or tolerate. Mckeeva has to learn when a man or woman leaves this world only his dignity and self respect leaves with him and for him to poke fun at our forefathers being poor is very disrespectful for such a good christian like him.
Who said he was a good christian? is the fruit of the spirit in galations chap. 5 being manifested? Love, Joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, temprance meekness? If your answer is No then I’ll be back with a discussionon whether we are observing the works of the flesh being manifested in our leader or not. We really need to know if this man has changed! Can he control his temper, and tame his tongue, and walk away from yankee carpet baggers who negotiate the sale of our people for nickles and dime.
Have you heard his comments about people? Well think again. By their fruits ye shall know them the bible says.
Church membership does not mean that a person is saved.
I was a church member all my life on my way to hell.
Sitting in a dead church with a dead pastor, preaching dead sermons. He himself was lost ! If the church pastor do not invite the members to accept Jesus Christ in their hearts to come and live inside of them, and be Lord of their Life, then they’re simply not saved>
Do you really think Jesus Christ is truly living inside the heart of McKeeva Bush? I’m curious. what kind of testimony does the people who know him, really know him say about him. Are they convinced a change has taken place. I can assure you when you become a christian, a GREAT CHANGE TAKES PLACE.
IS MCKEVA BUSH A CHANGED MAN?
Lets remember that Mr Bush granted 3000 folks Cayman status. Many of them were no doubt formerly long serving expat workers, a number of whom were filling senior and middle management positions. It is worth considering now, a number of years later, why upward mobility is apparently limited for younger workers. In a small community with limited labour mobility, the majority of managerial positions in the labour market are now filled by "Caymanians."
To those none believers who doubt this man’s sponsors and who help elect him and his people he now is carrying out their agenda and wishes to run every Caymanian out of here. Remember Cayman you were only need for your vote you serve no other purpose. We will all be part time employees picking up road side trash and when that is done we will be NO time for u Caymanian. What they are suggesting is to further disenfranchise us the island and our heritage.
Anon 17:05, what you are saying is what the Cayman people have been told over & over again. The real danger to Cayman is Caymanians themselves, because we have been warned yet we continue to ignore those warnings. Now we are outnumbered & it is only going to get worse! DID YOU HEAR WHAT THE PREMIER SAID TODAY? Did you all hear what Mrs. Bodden-Cowan also said? This is exactly what the UDP was telling us on the campaign trail, yet we ignored it & voted them into power. We were blinded & fooled by promises & cash. We are a diluted species, & it is going to get worse, the powers that be told us that today LOUD & CLEAR!
"Caymanian" is a species? What did it evolve from?
wow, poorly conjugated verbs, terrible grammar, poorly used apostrophies, and big words copied from a ‘Word’ thesaurus but used hopelessly incorrectly… are you a deputy commissioner of police by any chance? Eh? Tone?
The only apostrophe in the post appears to have been used correctly. The conjugation issue seemed to be largely typos and the words don’t seem to be have been used in an obviously inappropriate manner. So this leads me to think that you are not as clever as you think you are.
Response to the above idiot rozzers,
You are an idiot rozzers, many educated persons participate in these forums. they sneek on to the forum hoping their employers don’t catch them wasting company time. We understand incorrect spelling. there’s no time to proof read. All we’re interested in is the MESSAGE, we don’t shoot messengers in this forum so straighten up and we tolerate bad spelling the same as we tolerate idiots like you Rozzers.
Thanks for your insight. Although you have failed to impress. You have however added fuel to the fire by illustrating how Caymanians do not have the right work ethic to succeed in the top organisations. If they are constantly sneaking onto sites like CNS, facebook, hotmail etc they are not doing what we are paying them to do.
The fact that they spend most of the day surfing the web, a couple of hours at lunch and probably ten minutes doing their work, is what holds them back from being promoted to the high level positions. If they applied themselves, spent less time surfing the web, took less sick days and long lunches, spent less time making personal phone calls, turned up on time and at least attempted to look interested in their work occasionally, then maybe we would start seeing more senior Caymanians and less expats.
Years of bad parenting, poor education and a lack of social skills has held back the Caymanian workforce. The companies need to get their work done and the Caymanians themselves have proved that they are not able to do it themselves so they need to get professionals in.
Who said that the persons sneeking onto the site posting whilst at work were Caymanians? Your interpretation. I happen to know many of you mean spirited expatriates who do so, you are probably one.
To the Pozer or whatever your name is the valuble time u spend on the internet trying to identify a poster on this forum would be best spent trying to solve some of these prolific crimes being committed on this island. see no punctuation or past participles
Ummm…. I think th full stop after ‘island’ counts as punctuation – even if your grammar is haywire!!
simple – less commerce, less jobs. wait for it, in the next 60 days, it will be announced that a major bank will be acquired by another. bank licences will be consolidated and will be several job losses. (although in positioning statement this will be denied).
to apply to this story and related posts, for those morons that can’t comprehend the reason to attract foreign business, you better get your head out of your behinds, cause the world is flat. none of these banks or business’ need cayman.
oh – and by the way, this bank deal is already a sealed deal. mark the words of inside job.
Would you squeeze me the info. I would like to take my money out before they run away with it, That is if you are not rumour mongering.
Hurricane McKeeva passing through the Cayman Islands again with more major damage!
"fool fool idea" how ironic as it was introduced by "dumb dumb" and THEN put into law by the PPM. I am glad at last someone has the sense to call themself "fool fool".
Actually, the Immigration Law, 2003 which introduced rollover was passed by the UDP Govt. and came into effect on 1st January, 2004 – almost 18 months before the PPM were elected to government. The PPM carried out the law (i.e "fool, fool idea") enacted by the UDP.
I believe that lady when she wrote an article in the Cayman Net News last year. she reminded caymanians that the Premiere does not need the grassroots vote anymore. she was so right. Jobs for Caymanians are not
on his agenda. Granting more statuses to secure himself as the premiere is on his list. I hope the constitution has limited his time to run and we will not have a referendum to extend his time so this is it!
This man intends to sell, sell, sell Caymanians as slaves handing them daily labor, what an insult. Permanent job security is of no concern to him for his people..
He is more interested in securing foreign investors than jobs for his people. This premiere is clearly in denial of the true facts that these foreign owned firms have no intention of honoring the skills, expertise, experience nor the Education of our Educated Caymanians; some of them holding more than one degree at a time. They feel an Educated Caymanian are a threat to them. Little tolerance is shown towards these employees that are qualified for Middle and Top Management positions and they refuse to encourage or support any Caymanian aspiring to move up the corporate ladder.This is not a part of the plan at all. The Premiere is well aware of this but he is not at all sensitive to the needs of the people.
In 2013 we must not allow the UDP to do this to us again.
Caymanians must put their foot down and stop this premiere from importing a whole nation from overseas that are wiping out the very identity of our people. It is a shame. These companies are not leaving because of lack of work permits. They are leaving because they want to dictate to our Government and its people daily, endeavoring to do as they bloody well please regardless of who they step on. And at the end of the day bully the premiere and his weak cabinet into a rollover policy that fits their agenda and destroys the livelihood of his people. Ultimately they will demand Cayman Status and vote for him again to get more power and privilege.
He must be stopped. This must not be his decision alone. I have not heard one elected official standing up for Caymanians other than Mr. Ezzard miller. come on Ezzard what do you have to say about all this?
Iwas a Supervisor on a job where a Foreign supervisor abused Caymanians every day. But I was her match, I engineered the necessary paperwork to get her prejudiced a$$ out of that job as she was their gretest nightmare. This is happening on many work sites and it must stop.
Caymanians and foreigners must make reports, putting it in writing, any incident that occurs on your job if you are being abused. I am anxious for the Bill of Rights to be implemented. I can just see Big Mac trying to stop that so that the rich capitalists that abuse Caymanians and X-pats every day will be excluded from prosecution. Lets review the constitution to make sure the Labor force and employees nationwide has the rights they should have granted to them in the bill of rights. With all that Big Mac is dishing out, that’s your only hope. for the working class
Take a breather, read the following and go to the website address below, it will answer every one of your questions..
LIBERTARIAN QUOTES ( AN EYE OPENER) http://www.lpboulder.org/quotes
This supervisor was not unfair to Caymanians, she just treated them the way they should expect. If they are lazy, surly, rude and constantly sick or late, but still expect raises and promotions, they will feel agrieved when a foreigner tells them the truth. Sorry but it’s because you’ve all been brought up badly with a sense of entitlement, without the need to put in the effort.
So you made up a load of rubbish and sent it to your cousin in immigration and probably got her deported.
Unfortunately this is not the best way to encourage businesses to invest in Cayman. The Caymanians should try harder and put more effort and pride into their work and prove that they can do the jobs that are currently imported. Until this time any business is going to prefer foreign labour as they know the job will be done properly and on time. Plus the silly immigration rules have meant that expats are attractive to employ as they are tied to a contract and can’t leave to work somewhere else very easily, unlike the Caymanian workers with patchy job history that chop and change jobs every few months and then moan that they don’t get promoted.
WRONG!
That same supervisor had abused staff in her position as a Hotel supervisor, the staff got disgusted with her, beat her a$$ stripped her naked and put her in the elevator, pushed the button, and sent her up to the executive floor ! she was fired instantly.
She was an abusive b**ch. So don’t sit there and pen letters that suggest that Caymanians are not abused by foreign prejudiced Bas***ds who simply hate the native people. We are to the point of detesting what the premiere is sdoing to hurt his people even more and that’s a fact.
If you hate us that much
THERE ARE SEVERAL FLIGHTS LEAVING DAILY
‘CATCH ONE OF THEM"
We’ll pay your cab fare
All this development is all about Greed,not Need.
The contry is moving far too fast and its hurting the people, and helping everyone else including the elected officials.
This is the dumbest fable I’ve ever seen posted here. Naked in an elevator… and fired instantly.
You clearly have way too much time on your hands. Aren’t you supposed to be working at 9:40 am on a Friday? Or has your wonderful attitude of teamwork in the workplace prevented you from securing gainful employment?
I smell a big fat pork pie. I think the author is living out a fantasy rather than relaying actual events. Firstly, I can’t imagine that anyone would be fired for being assualted and left naked in an elevator, even though this is Cayman, and secondly the author implies that somewhere on this island there is a Caymanian working in a hotel.
Good one…
And was there a criminal investigation in to the assault and probable sexual assault by the police over this incident?
Beating a woman and stripping here naked sounds like a serious crime to me but then what do I know, I’m only an expat.
PS how would you react if a group of people beat your daughter or niece, stripped her and left her naked for anyone to find?
Would you want the police to investigate?
What what God think of your actions for not reporting this crime you know about or theirs
"HERE ARE SEVERAL FLIGHTS LEAVING DAILY" I know and as an ex-pat that is wonderfully reassuring to know when I want to go on expensive vacations with the extremely high salary I make. Bet you love that don’t you?
It is good to knowyou don’t have to spend the rest of your life here isn’t it?
Fool Fool Idea Mr. Premier (founder of UDP)?… Well
"This policy is enshrined in the Immigration Law (2003 revision), written by the UDP government, and subsequently enforced by the PPM government. Both governments agree to the term limits on foreign workers, and the majority of Caymanians also agree it is necessary to protect local culture and heritage from being eroded by a large number of foreigners gaining residency and citizenship.[34]"
Very Interesting… the paragraph above was copied from the Cayman Islands page on Wikipedia under the work permit section, see link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cayman_Islands
This makes me wonder how many other policies written or to be written by this governement will be later deemed fool fool. Please don’t sing praises for the Premier said this was a bad idea as it clearly states in black and white it was his… no if he came out and said "this was MY fool fool idea" that would be another thing:)
this sounds like a fool, fool idea.
Who created the rollover policy?
Oh yeah it was Big Mac…how quickly we all forget
Big Mac, don’t try to blame the roll-over policy on the PPM.
The policy was written under YOUR guidance and passed while the UDP govt had the majority.
Is it possible the roll over policy wasn’t executed by the PPM the way Big Mac envisioned it?
Is it possible that Big Mac implemented the rollover as an apology for the 3,000, but the PPM boards turned it into retribution for the 3,000? (I readily admit the 3,000 should NOT have been done the way it was done.) Did the PPM give similar applicants similar points? Did they tally all points correctly, did they give all points where they should have? Did they give one family member residency and not other family members? Did they follow laws strictly and give all applicants fair and proper opportunities to respond to complaints? Is it possible the PPM boards saw it their duty to let as few through the gates as possible because of the 3,000? Just asking?
Actually, as a FORMER ppm supporter, it seems clear now that the PPM let far too many through the gates. They messed up the control of the more skilled expatriates, making it too diificult for them AND hurting hard working Caymanians with potential at the same time, whilst opening the doors to the world’s poor based on some twisted reasoning that since they are not competing with Caymanians in the more skilled positions, it does not matter.
What would been the appropriate number of people to let through the gates?
How do you determine that number?
What has been dubbed the "rollover policy", the term limits provisions, is not a policy at all but was originally contained in the Immigration Law, 2003 enacted by the former UDP govt. Except for the fact that they amended the law to shorten the required break from 2 years to 1, the PPM simply followed the law and applied it across the board. If applicants were aggrieved by the outcome of their applications they had a right of appeal. The UDP did have a policy, however, which involved giving mass exemptions to particular favoured firms, but not to others, and to make it clear to the white expats in the financial industry that rollover was not for them but "just for the Jamaicans". Is that the policy envisioned by Big Mac that the PPM failed to implement?
Give the Premier a break. He can now say many things were fool fool because he created them fool foolshly and has had time to see that they were fool fool. If they are fool fool then they should be sent to file 13.
Dont blame him for explaining things in a manner we all understand.
There is no pie. Businesses are simply trying to survice. I work at a sizeable financial company and the Caymanians here get a more than fair opportunity to succeed. I’ve seen the same at a few other financial institutions. From a purely business point of view, if one has to choose between an equally qualified Caymanian or expat, it should be cheaper for the business to higher the Caymanian as there are no work permits fees to be paid. Is it possible that we do not have realistic views of what is happening in the labor market place and perhaps only a few bad companies out there is creating severly skewed views?
Unfortunately, that is not quite true. Somebody on a work permit is much more indebted to a company than somebody who is a free agent on the market and can go where he can get a better pay, better benfits,better treatment and better working hours. So having work permit holders in certain position is often quite beneficial to certain employers.
Logically waht you saying may be true but I cannot say that I’ve seen the desire by employers for that level of "control" of theiremployees, at least not at a professional or corporate level. It’s quite easy for professionals to leave their employment and go work in another country. Maybe this is more prominent at a small business level where less qualified people work and who therefore have less access to employment somewhere else.
Unfortunately (again), I have seen it with big corporations/firms at a professional level. Many work permits holders bring their spouse or family along, so they don’t just up and leave to relocate somewhere else again as we all know that relocating take quite a bit of effort. In my experience, some employers do prefer work permit holders in certain key positions, especially when they are involved with high-stake clients and marketing. It minimizes the risk that someone just leaves (potentially taking their good connections with them). In my experience, a high percentage of individuals have changed employers after they got their permanent residency or cayman status. Coincidence? I think not!
To the poster of this comment:
Caymanians are not being trained up or even encouraged by many of these firms to seek qualifications that enable them to advance. For example, I personally know of firms that have talked Caymanians out of doing a CPA even though the Caymanians were in a Fund Accounting role. Reasons for not providing funding were things like:
– we don’t have it in the budget this year
– you don’t really need it for the job that you are currently doing
– we will not pay you more after you get a CPA
Quite frankly, if these Caymanians were bright enough, they would have realized that "most" companies will spill this verbage to get out of "footing the bill" and should have enough intelligence to foot the bill themselves, because they know and understand it would benefit them in the long run.
When you talk of firms "footing the bill" for caymanians to get qualifications- that only happens in cayman. In other countries you get qualified then look for a job. Your attitude just shows how far we are from the real world
Or rather, how much Caymanians rely on legislation that has been in place for 30 years. Read section 44 of the Immigration Law and then tell me is it wrong for a Caymanian to expect reliance on the Law, and to be angry if a firm skirts around it. Change the law, but do not break it.
Quite right! It is my experience that companies (and government) are not bringing Caymanians up to the skill level necessary to fill the posts available and if you want the job then it is up to you to do everything you can to qualify for the post. You’ve got to fight for yourself and your own future!!
"it’s up to you" you say "fight for yourself" you say.
I couldn’t gree more. Young Caymanians have been negatively affected by the expectation that eveything will be done for them and handed to them on a plate.
Do you mean that there is a need to work hard and perserve? Oh the humanity! I thought that "my daddy works in Immigration" was good enough.
My Caymanian daughter has an excellent position with a major financial firm in Cayman. However, we paid for her education ourselves, and did not expect handouts from the corporate world. Really bright students are eligible for scholarships and there are a lot of them available in Cayman, if you can’t afford to pay for education yourself. I agree with the poster that you can’t put a price on education and it is something that can never be taken away from you, so it is best to "foot the bill" for your own long-term benefit.
what kind of caymanian? paper caymanian?
Paper Caymanian = Caymanian.
Legally you are right. But it is not what we teach our kids. Please read Cayman Primary Social Studies, Book 6, Page 65, "Sometimes people who are not Caymanian citizens wish to become Caymanians, or acquire Cayman Status. We call them "paper Caymanians." Does the current Minister of Education wish to change the text?
CNS if you don’t publish this, given the context, I’m going to start to wonder about your motives. This is the third time I have posted this as you have not posted the previous two.
CNS: I have posted this twice and both times I have added a note explaining why you are wrong but you seem a little slow. I will not post it again, so hopefully you will get it this time.
You are quoting from the old curriculum. Under the last administration the curriculum was re-written and revamped and the new National Curriculum was launched in 2008. You can download and read the whole thing on the Education Ministry’s website. Pay particular attention to page 5 "The Educated Caymanian" and page 11 "Aims and Outcomes".
Dear CNS. I picked up the copy I quoted from in a local store last week. It was one of many of the same copy being sold. Perhaps what is slow, are the books being taken out of circulation. I do, however, appreciate your diligence. Do you know if the section teaching about Central America has included Honduras (our cousins) in the new version?
CNS: I think your beef is with the publisher and the bookstore, then. The curriculum in the public system, which my children attend, is now more about outcomes than slavishly plodding though a set text book – which gives much more scope to innovative teachers to make their lessons more interesting. Click on this and have a look at Social Studies key stages 1, 2 and 3. I no longer have children in theprimary system, but my Year 8 child (CBHS) does a lot of his homework research on the internet.
Congrats to this poster. First time I’ve seen someone on here insulted by the moderator!
Started my day with a laugh, thanks.
Did the person who thumbed down not understand the law of the land?
No, a "born Caymanian".
Born where, Who ya daddy/mama is?
Cassava Cake:
Well done for making a typically stupid comment that your neanderthal supporters will love. It doesn’t matter what type of Caymanian-the point made by the poster remains relevant. Now the word "relevant" means………………oh well, what’s the point, you are not going to be able to handle this complex intricate lineof argument.
Dear God preserve us.
not sure if it was a joke question but it should not matter but one should look at this type of person as a role model.
"hard work will beat talent if talent doesn’t work hard" – football coach
nobody can take away the accomplishment of finishing a difficult task and do it for yourself not because an employer is paying for it! Stop making excuses, it only makes you a bitter/angry person.
No a SMART, Educated, hard working, and therefore successful Caymanian! Born and raised by Smart, Careing, and obviously disciplined parents. Not your basic Caymanian or Paper Caymanian. See the difference?
I can relate to this as I’m in a similiar position my employer keeps telling me their is no money in budget for me to do my course and yet they hired a foreigner that is suppose to have all these qualification and I have to show this same foreigner how to do their job sometimes having to correct it for them & they get all the glory. So in the end I stop asking the company for assistance & made an appointment with the bank to get a small loan to do my course.
Agreed but that is not the point of the post.
Here is a proactive suggestion. Whenever a "foreigner" is hired, while he or she is enjoying their elevated position, they should have to mentor and train ajunior Caymanian employee to eventually take over their position. Then when they have to leave, the transition will be smooth and have long lasting benefits. Of course that means a Caymanian would have to eventually be promoted and we know how well that sits with some people!
One question Mckeeva since you have been in government on this island for over 20 odd years all these problems were created by you and your fellow cronies and also fellow politicians One term you attack foreigners next term Caymanians it is getting rather confusing for the people WHO Elected You. We did not create the Rollover policy Mr Priemero you did Sir! and it’s ramifications are effecting us all. When government mismanages the country freedom takes the rap. what more will we have to give up??????
Gosh darn it, now Barefoot is going to have to write another song! Anyone know when the earthquake track is being released?
Does it make sense for Caymanians to get educated and qualified?… Just asking… How much of these firms are really considering qualified Caymanians over their country man? If our Premier deems it okay for expats to be here in a position for all their life then the expat employer will keep throwing away the resumes of qualified Caymanians … Yes we need them here to keep our economy going but I’m not going to apologise for PPM trying to give Caymanians the first slice of the pie
If the expat employer can hire qualified, educated caymanians then he will do so. It is far cheaper than having to pay massive permit fees.
Do you think that theory will apply when the pension contributions for expats are rescinded??
Just wondering.
That is very simplistic. You are assuming a completely rational employer who is not influenced by prejudices and favouritism to his fellow nationals and others of his own race. That is often not the case.
It is also the case that some employers prefer to employ expats because they are more easily controlled under the work permit system. Further, others are employed because they do not have community and family commitments can work extremely long hours.
It is amusing though to hear the Premier sound off about the same rollover that his govt. created in 2003 when they passed the Immigration Law, 2003. The same individual who said that the expats were "cluttering up the infrastructure". Now he tries to make believe that this was a PPM issue.
I agree with your comment. Also i would like to say that I am a caymanian, yep both my parents are caymanian and were born here and lived here all their lives, just as i have. One thought i always have is that all the hard working caymanians i know seem to be progressing, moving up, etc etc etc. All the people that I know who went away, got educated, came back and worked just as hard as the expat(really dislike that word) next to them at work, have progressed. Look at all the CEOs/Country managers etc here in Cayman, think of how many you know by first name, grew up with, etc and then lets see if caymanians really don’t get a chance.
Not always.You see the qualified Caymanian might object to their employer doing things contrary to the domestic laws of the Cayman Islands. Work permit holders are not as squeeky a wheel.
Don’t suppose you can get your hands on a copy of his ‘list’ can you CNS?
What are the yes / no / deferred statistics of the new boards versus the "PPM" boards?
The word on the street is "There is no difference".
> “fool, fool idea”.
How eloquent, MacDinejad. I guess this was your addition to the work done by your speech writers. Caymanians are so proud to have you represent them here and abroad. Right…
> Criticising the last government for their view that when a foreign worker > departed a Caymanians would fill the role
Mac, you are not taking into account that the policies of many of these firms keep Caymanians in low-level positions. How many times have these firms shown us that they "are not in the training business"?
Although some firms are exceptions, many employ abusive policies.
Caymanians are not being trained up or even encouraged by many of these firms to seek qualifications that enable them to advance. For example, I personally know of firms that have talked Caymanians out of doing a CPA even though the Caymanians were in a Fund Accounting role. Reasons for not providing funding were things like:
– we don’t have it in the budget this year
– you don’t really need it for the job that you are currently doing
– we will not pay you more after you get a CPA
Shortly thereafter, the said company was applying for work permits for senior positions stating that no one internally was qualified to fill the positions.
How does that make sense? This is the type of issue that needs to be addressed by the business planning board and Immigration in general.
> He said government must look at the totality of the situation and it was not > about protecting one or two posts for Caymanians but about > protecting > dozens of middle management positions for Caymanians, as well as > training programmes for them.
As shown in the example above, the policies of these abusive firms will ensure that Caymanians advancing to middle management will be the exception. Any Caymanians rising to the top will be a miracle (discounting those with status thanks to Mac’s ongoing "give away Cayman" policies).
My heart aches for Caymanians.
we will not pay you more after you get a CPA
and that is a reason not to do a CPA if the Company will pay LOL. Come one think about it…you complete your CPA, the company won’t pay you more, then leave nearly every firm here will hire a qualified Caymanian CPA for a lot of money.
Unbelievable
– we don’t have it in the budget this year
OK — I’ll do it myself because it will put me ina better position down the road.
– you don’t really need it for the job that you are currently doing
OK — I’ll do it myself because it will put me in a better position down the road.
– we will not pay you more after you get a CPA
OK — I’ll do it myself because it will put me in a better position down the road.
Got any other excuses for being lazy!
Not enuf to post your name…
I agree with the Premier on this 100%; as a Caymanian I must say that the current version of the rolover policy has failed. I do believe that the policy was implemented with good intentions but like 75% of the legislation in this country its implementation was not righfully thought out. As Caymanians we cannot ignore our dependency on foreign employers who invest their hard earned money here, this is the life blood of our financial industry. To simply ignore them was a serious mistake and we are now seeing the effects of that mistake, firms are leaving and moving to other jurisdictions. Without the Banks and the financial firms life in Cayman would be a lot different. We need to listen to them, take their advice and ensure that our policies are in the best interest of all the stake holders not just one side.
I certainly agree with Mckeeva that we really need to keep these busineses flowing in Cayman to help with growth and a better wealthy lifestyle for Caymanians. There are so many Caymanians themselves that are out of work and is in critical need of not finding a job now and if more and more businesses depart them where would we all be?
Immigration is not thinking clearly, and they need to do what benefits our Country the most. I agree that more efficient work permit allocations will be of great use to get stability back in our Country again. So STOP giving them a hard time down there and do what’s right for the people of the Cayman Islands before it’s too late.
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