CS costs delay budget
(CNS): Government has revealed that delivery of the budget for the next financial year has been delayed yet again as a result of the UK querying civil service costs. A statement released from the premier’s office on Friday evening said that even though the government’s budget position has improved, the British government had asked for additional time to review the proposed 2011-2012 financial plan due to be brought to the Legislative Assembly on Monday. “The main area of scrutiny is personnel costs which the CI government does not want to cut further,” the statement read. However, the UK has said that the present personnel costs of the local civil service are unsustainable.
Thishas resulted in the Budget Address being delayed for additional review time by the UK and just the throne speech will now be delivered on Monday when the LA re-opens for the Budget meeting. McKeeva Bush said he could not now bring the budget until it has the approval of the UK as it is insisting that spending on public secoremployees be reduced.
“We won’t cut back on salaries and benefits,” the premier said. As a result, other areas must be found where cuts can be made to gain the approval of the UK Government for the budget and more time is needed to do this, Bush added.
The premier again pointed to the loans that his government has taken to fund the new schools and the government administration building, started by the previous PPM administration and other expenditures that he said had caused an $81 million recurrent expenditure deficit and a $120 million capital deficit in 2009.
However, the UK has apparently focused on the personnel costs, which the FCO has said needs further scrutiny.
Category: Politics
Maybe the Premier and all the hangers on should fly coach class instead of Business Class
The country is in debt. And the British are coming…
To put us into more debt and unemployment.
It seems to me that Mac and his stooges have become toxic to the thinking peopleof these islands. He is just like Robert Mugabe. Time to move in another direction. He only travels and talks down to us as if we can't see through his horse maure.
You should have called it horse s_ _ _. It only becomes manure when we finally make up our minds to start learning from it. If we could just find a weed killer to stop whoever signs that wonderful paycheck every month, (as well as the glorious pension paycheck), that would put a permanent end to all of Cayman's woes…Can you imagine the beautiful garden we would have with no weeds and loads of wonderful horse manure to help bring us to the light?
Does anyone know what it cost us for Mac and his pac to travel so frequently on our credit cards? It seems to me that every time I read a posting Mac is overseas cutting a deal that never seems to work out for our interests. Come to think of it we never get a break from Mac's deals. This guy is a horror show. He needs to address the country and do the honorable thing and just quit. He is making a lot of us ill with his arrogance and incompetence.
I know for fact, udp travel expenses are lesser than ppm's travel expenses. So we have to just wait and see. He has another two years.
You must be numb to the current Cayman economic situation…
Why should I react to what is fact. Mathematical figures don't lie. :o)
ummmmm, I didn't see any 'mathematical figures', but heck, if you say they don't lie then i guess……….
It's not a lie, it's a scheme.
That's the problem with all of Cayman.
Prove it, we know you can't. Kurt didn't stay at the Mandarin Oriental in London and use a limo when he was Leader of Government business. He went on the bus and stayed with most other people except Mac who when he was Leader of the Opposition at the same time took advantage of first class hotels and limos. Not for a minute do we believe that the PPM spent more than the UDP on travel. Let's do an FOI on it, you will find out you are wrong.
We need to take a few basic steps to START to get things under control. Here are my suggestions:-
1. Implement revised terms and conditions for all NEW govt employees hired from 1st July 2011. These must include pension and health contributions. This line in the sand must be drawn as the situation only gets compounded with every new recruit.
2. Postpone the hiring of 3 additional politicians (MLA's) and the creation of 2 new ministries as required by the new Constitution. This alone will save millions of $$$$$ per annum.
3. All political posts in the civil service MUST be paid for by the political parties not from the public purse.
4. Starting in September each child in public school to cost $1000 per year. This does not even come close to covering the costs, but if you want space age schools you have to help pay for them.
Has anyone seen the communications between the FCO and the CIG on the proposed budget? Or is the FCO talking directly to the Premier? Can CNS get copies of the memorandums?
That sounds like an excellent idea. McKeeva published the budget correspondence with Chris Bryant, so the precedent hasbeen set.
Come on Madinejad, show us the letter! And if the correspondece between you and Cohen should fall out of your briefcase at the same time nobody will complain.
This is a set up.
The Premier said “We won’t cut back on salaries and benefits.”
The problem with that statement is that most of us Civil Servants WANT to see cuts in salaries and benefits. Here specifically are a few places that we would be happy to see cuts made:
1. Cut the salaries of the Premier and all elected Members of the LA in line with what was promised in the LA, before the Premier proceeded to renig on that promise and cut the common Civil Servants instead.
2. When the Premier travels on business there is no need to take anyone who does not add value to the trip. Taking Ellio for budget discussions with the FCO, and his driver to Jamaica are good examples of wasted funds.
3. The Deputy Premier has an Executive Aide, with no executive role, and whose level of education is on par with our average run of the mill high school graduate. He accompanied her to the Kenya for a Parliamentary Conference and remainded with her afterwards for an African safari. He also accompanied her to Barcelona for a cell phone conference. We can easily afford to not have him travel business class on Civil Servant expense. In fact, there is no need for him to travel at all.
4. Another value for money item is the unsuccessful UDP candidate for George Town who is now paid to advise the other Ministers. That is Civil Service expense, and everyone can see through it.
Others can add to the list, but I think you all get the gist of where money can be saved without causing the average Civil Servant difficulty is paying his/her utilities.
I would encourage you to share more as it seems that your ideas are better than most that I have seen.
Very well said!
And excellent suggestions….for a good start.
I would say from the thumbs down that at least Paul and Pearlina have read your post…
Thank you so much for your post, civil servants as you have stated are very aware of the gross expenses that these "party goers" are costing this country, “business trips” what a joke! Mckeeva can’t manage this countries affairs and he goes jet setting looking for more “investors” what is there left here for anyone to invest in?
The last of the descent land where Caymanians should be able to purchase and build future homes (or only the swampy waste land is good enough for us “punks”) or maybe the beach land that is afforded to the locals.
My suggestions are as follows:
1. Call/ Video conferencing with Intl’ & Local Business professionals. No more Jet setting trips with cronies & constituents on UDP free for all globe trotting trips.
2. Use the Fax machines which you know Govt has in their office suites in the New Govt Bldg.
3. No private drivers, chefs, housekeepers, & body guards at the expense of the public purse.
4. Salary cuts for those making over KYD $4000.00 by 30%, hey at the end of the day if your earning over $4000.00 you aren’t hurting during these Recession times.
5. And if the premier is collecting the perks that he now has I don’t see the need for a salary, heck he is old enough to collect his pension (and already is), well now he needs to practice what he preaches and MANAGE his own expenses with his pension.
everywhere else in the world governments are cutting back on civil service jobs and salaries….
look at how many private business are closing in cayman…look at the reductions in pay private employees are forced to take…!
yet our government says their will be no pay cuts and no reductions in the civil service numbers?????…despite the reccomendations of the miller shaw report!!!!! ..it really is alice in wonderland stuff!…….goodnight cayman!………zzzzzzz
The UK will always interfere with financial records. I hope they are not thinking of doing to us like they did to Turks and Cacois records. It still a stink situation under the Governor's dictatorship, and no one knows what is happening with the country's money.
Obviously you would like things swept under the carpet. In the TCI there was rampant fraud perpetrated by certain politicians. Here in Cayman we just have no proper accounting records as wellas bypasses of the tenders committee so expect the mother country to look into this. At least we will all know we where we stand as regards the financial position of the Cayman Islands.
Yeah right! And that gives them the excuse to suspend the people's Constitution, dissolved their elected Cabinet, and prohibit them from elections.
The problem was, it was their constitution that gave then carte blanche to do it. Our new constitution is very similar and contains the same complete lack of checks and balances apart from the nuclear option of the governor refusing to act on the advice of cabinet, which he (whoever he is) would be very very reluctant to do. Sadly, against all the warnings available, you woted for it. Reap what you sow.
The rest of us will pay for it
nonsesne…the uk saved tci from their own corruption and incompetence…..
ummm… we don't know yet… nobody is being saved… the whole populace is under British Rule against their will
So you are saying that 100% of the populace of TCI opposes direct British rule? Do you have any facts to support your allegation, or are you just spewing BS?
If TCI is saved by your righteous government, how come even after the Rapture there are still reports of corruption, and your government is a part of it????? Helloooo… anybody home????
I would much rather be subject to a rational and sensible "dictator" who is directly accountable to Great Britain than the flaky loose cannon we have now.
A lot of people may say I’m wrong in my interpretation of this, but is seems that the UPD is fighting as hard as they can to protect the Cayman people from the nasty business of such things as direct taxation and personal cuts to the Civil Service whom seem to employ a great deal of Cayman citizens. I hear a lot of folks complaining that the UPD does not fight for the people but it seems that if they were not for the people it would be easy for them to agree with the things the UK are pushing for such direct taxation of Cayman Citizen and huge cuts to Civil Service personnel both of which would put a huge strain on the Cayman people.
I read comments from people saying they should go to the UK and rally against the current governments choices, but it seems that if they do so they may end up with the UK putting someone in charge whose first goal will be to hit the Cayman people in their pockets. They would love to see every Caymanian giving a big part of their income to the Government as well as paying for the right to own their own homes by collecting property taxes, like everyone else in the world.
Keep up this nonsense and you may find yourselves jumping out of the frying pan right into the fire..
the civil service is too costly no government in the world could afford one like what we have… make them pay at least half of their insurance my base pay is 2300 pm and i still pay full insurance for me and my child…we cannot afford it
Wrong,
Paying Big Mac and the others two salaries IS TOO COSTLY!
They are no more important and no better than anyone else.
They must collect pension only when they retire as anyone else?
Why allow them to continue to RAPE THE PUBLIC PURSE and blame it on the civil service when its the L.A. that is a sinking and a Burden to government financially.
THEY ARE DOUBLE DIPPING!
Does anyone know what double dipping means? It means you have elected sharks that are swimming around in blood waters. Blood suckers are what they are! Yet they have the nerve to mention the word Tax a dirty and nasty and insulting word to the inhabitants of a tax free nation enjoyed for decades.
Comissioner Gerard Smith admonished the people of the Cayman Islands NOT TO ALLOW anyone to TAKE OUR TAX FREE PRIVILEGES WAY FROM US. Its time we exercise that right and teach it also to our children. Anyone suggesting otherwise should be looked upon as an infidel and an outcast!.
There are plenty of cuts that can be made in the civil service without harming Caymanians. First, cut all overseas contracts that have no ties to Cayman. IF there is work to sustain these posts, then let Caymanians have those jobs. Second, take a serious look at how many civil servants are in posts created to implement the public management finance law and then ask what the PMFI is really doing for the country other than giving jobs to non-Caymanians and increasing the cost of the civil service while reducing customer service. Civil servants spend too much time trying to comply with PMFI and the all the paperwork that they have no time to deliver real services. Third, consider privatizing some government services like waste collection, building roads, water supply then regulating them through utilities commissions. You would take some people off the Government payroll and possible result in better service at a cheaper price.
people should be hired or firedbased on their preformance not on their nationality!!!!
Ok…let's put it another way: Given the choice between firing a Caymanian or booting an expat, both of whom are producing roughly equal "performance", the expat gets the ax. These are tough times and tough times call for tough measure.
We absolutely do need to curtail a significant share of non-Caymanian contract employees and nurture a greater share of Caymanians for the posts. In addition, we absolutely need to chop all the silly, unnecessary and redundant posts we have created over the years.
And we absolutely do need to trim MLA salaries and perks. And we certainly need to bring MLA travel expenses to conforn to the reality of a broke government. So, make 'em fly coach, stay at the Holiday Inn, Best Western, or Travelodge – in standard rooms. Let 'em eat at Western Sizzler, Denny's, a Chinese buffett, or Burger King; and let 'em drive smaller cheap rental cars. Let 'em travel in the same style like most everyday Caymanians who travel abroad on a budget. I'll bet Big Mac would be staying home a lot more, nah?
You watch, the british government will end up causing these islands more than a delay and cuts in the civil service. There is no going around it, at the end of the day, the Uk's FCO, are the ones really running this country – not the Premier or any other Premier to come.
The real problem Cayman faces is the Premier himself: He does not have the vaguest clue about finances. Nor does he care about finances. Get this straight:
He makes somewhere in the neighborhood of fifteen thousand a month CI. AND collects a healthy pension on top of that.
All of his household bills are paid for and he gets to travel and see the world for free. He has no overhead. It's all money in the bank. Get it??
Cayman's failure WON'T be his failure for the Premier is…at present….socking it away knowing full well he won't be re-elected.
The longer people go on believing this matters the more prolonged this farce will be.
Now to his recent statement regarding the FCO's reluctance on the budget:
There are NO ACCOUNTS. Nada. Zilch. He is trying to make it look as if the FCO is in some way backing his covert plan to lay the entire blame on the Civil Service. Some of them are to blame because they're overpaid, and underworked. Especially those in charge of accounting. But not all civil servants are to blame for this. It has just become a culture of entitlement for too long. And, granted, it is ridiculous to have all of their pension and health care payments made by government. Nowhere else does this happen. And those health care benefits extend to all family members forever. That is over the top and unsustainable by any measure and I don't care if they can choose their health care providers or not. It's a good deal. But, of course that's how you buy votes and every Cayman government has done this by stacking the civil service.
But the real reason is a total lack of accounting. Who, in their right minds would sign-off any budget presented by a government that had no idea where it's accounts stood? And, as Finance Minister the Premier should care about this but doesn't (see beginning).
He is a great problem, but this is not what the article is talking about. Don't stray from the fact that the UK are calling the shots on this one like they did with the status grants in 2003.
I see you are trying to resurrect the lie that the UK Govt. forced McKeeva to grant 3,000 persons status arbitrarily and without background checks. It is obvious to all but the brain dead that that is nonsense.
actually they were the ones who mandated or "forced" if you like, our government to increase the islands population. the way Mac went about it, was political and not liked by the other party. but uk were the ones that demanded this
Every MLA of the time had lists and on many of those lists were people that did not deserve to get status. Yes there were some valid recipients but they would have received it anyway if an expedited method with some due diligence was utilized. I know someone who received it after 7 years on the island because he knew someone connected…another person after the same amount of time put his name on list in Government system…and of course there was the home invader who was recently killed who received his while in prison. Don't detract from the point which is the method which was used and not the necessity of granting.
Fine by me, our own xenophobic illegal policy for not granting status to hundreds of long term residents who were all here for over 12 years was wrong and we were caught out, period. It was then our crooked policies that allowed unworthy people on that status list that made us look foolish.
What is needed is for the Premier and his government to make the same tough decisions that the British Primeminister recently made for England. Unnecessary positions within the civil service need to be identified and cut without fear or favour, simple. And, by the way, I am Caymanian, born and bred, and I have sense enough to acknowledge the reality of what we are being faced with. I am pretty sure that if statistics are carefullyexamined it will show that despite the call for a reduction in the civil service new positions have been created and extra staff have been employed and it does not take a rocket scientist to understand that blatant disregard to the call for a reductiion in the civil service would in fact lead us to exactly this point. Instead of the Premier calling for people to be made to answer for this behaviour he is stating that there will be no reductiions. I agree that salaries across the board should not be cut further but certainly excess positions must be cut. That's my take on it!
Trust me, he has no say when the FCO mandates his allegiance!
I agree with what you say. Also, the Civil Service needs to cut the jobs of those in the Service that are usuing government offices to run their own businesses. Not only are they using government office space, stationary, office supplies, more importantly they are using their well paid time on their PRIVATE money making businesses. They use gasoline that the government pays for not to mention government vehicles.
Any civil service employee that has their own business and their own private income should be the FIRST ones to be let go. Let's keep thehardworking civil servants that do their jobs and NEED their incomes. This scenario of being a civil servant and running businesses on time paid for by the people of this country has gone on for far too long.
Folks, it states that "the British government had asked for additional time to review the proposed 2011-2012 financial plan due to be brought to the Legislative Assembly on Monday…" Get off your partisan horses and realize that as much as you want to pin the delay of the budget on the Premier, it is not what this article is saying! How can we deny the solemn fact that we are a British Overseas Territory, and that the UK can do to us as they please. This local government has to comply with the order from the UK! If the UK want to cut the civil servant's salaries, they will see to it that it is done. The Premier can speak on their behalf, but he has no power than what is given to him by our limited constitution. Just like in 2003 when they said Cayman's population needed to be increased – we were under populated. I hearing many still today, blaming the increase on our local politicians. For your information, the UK was behind the status grants from day one. Folks, you have to realize we the people are not under one government. We two governments over us. The local government has no say over the FCO. So to the bloggers, please get off your partisan horses, and stop isolating this government into a single entity. Stick to the facts! When I read CNS blogs, I want to see blogs that are factual and not politically bias. We are one Cayman Islands. We represent the people, and when we allow the powers that be to divide, that is when the same power that be can conquor us. We shouldn't allow political biases to distort reasoning. The fact is, and you can give me thumbs down all you want – the UK has ordered this delay, and is probably looking into cutting the civil service once again. This time that is not coming from Premier Bush.
Yeah but bush does play an important role. They make the rules and he follows through with it his way.
hush… boy, you sound emotional and angered. but at least you are correct by what you say.
this is the wrong forum, predominantly anti-government bloggers here 🙂
Oh Christ! The level of comment from some Caymanians on CNS shows exactly why they need furriners to survive.
Your semi-literate, ungrammatical anti UK rant is a clear example of why Cayman is getting increasingly "effed" in today's world. I pray hard that the UK will force independence on you ungrateful bastards and leave you to your smokepots, wampums, thatchrope and logwood dye plus your scratchy out of tune fiddle music culture and nasty violent and often nonsensical Old Testament beliefs. Alas, the UK wont do it, unless you ask for it, and despite the claptrap from a few twisted posters on CNS, Caymanians never seem to want to request independence. Trust me, as a loyal Brit, I am working behind the scenes to get the FCO to give you your freedom from the colonial yoke so that you can forge the future for the brave new blessed isles Cayman without our repressive influence creating your violent crime figures, non existent parenting standards, hypocritical Christianity, fiscal irresponsibility, pathetic educational standards and racist and homophobic attitudes. Please join with me in requesting independence NOW.
LMAO!!
Rant much??
Calm down buddy … put down the whiskey bottle for 5 minutes.
By the way in regards to;
"… violent crime figures, non existent parenting standards, hypocritical Christianity, fiscal irresponsibility, pathetic educational standards and racist and homophobic attitudes. …"
That sounds a lot like the UK to me my friend – who would have thunk it – it appears we do have many things in common (judging by your assessment) with the "mother country" after all!?
:o)
Correction:
I should have made an exception in regards to "homophobic attitudes".
SPOT ON!
They come here, live here with us for about 10 years, one decade, and believe they know everything about the Cayman Islands and its culture.
Thank you, Whodatis
As a royal brit, you are entitle to work behind the scenes all you want. But I bet ya, the FCO will do nothing, because they must first suck the life out of a country before allowing it to go Independence.
And what the hell are you talking aoubt us being ungrateful? Ungrateful for what? Your british name and pound???!
You're lost!
I am sorry that your agenda to divide this country is not working. I know of many good British people here who mind their own business, do their jobs, and are not involved in spying on us. Your poligraphs, anti-corruption probes, costing us in the millions… it must furiate you to see comments attacking the pearly white gates of England…
Look, we were not born yesterday.
As a fellow Brit, you make me ashamed. You are exactly the type of ex-pat which gives all of us a bad name. You forget you are in someone else's country. Try to learn some manners. YOu obviously dislike Cayman and everything Caymanian so why don't you go back to the mother ship?
Why they did not mention this from the beginning before they announce a date if they knew that the budget was subject to renewal by the UK? Yeah, blame the UK for the status grants….. what happen to the other hundreds of persons that were here over 20 years that didn't get status that still don't know what is happening with their status here? If someone had left the island for a week for a holiday and returned home they wereout of luck unless someone wrote down their name. We will never recover from this so we just have to "suck it up" and it doesn't matter what we say. It is so easy to say they are looking our for Caymanians but everyone that comes here that has money becomes a Caymanian. They are giving away our birthright left right and center. "Caymanian" doesn't mean anything to us anymore. Money, Money, Money is all I can hear. Dr. Shetty will soon be Caymanian too and we can say that another Caymanian owns a hospital. (if it is ever completed). Give every Police Officer status then we can say we have a Police Force that is 100% Caymanian.
wow… ignorance and conspiracy at its best!
Your point might very well be true but the manner in which you deliever it is lacking epecially when you refer to people who make comments on CNS as "bloggers" – please see this link to gain a better understanding of those you wish to critise.
"A blog (a blend of the term web log) is a type of website or part of a website. Blogs are usually maintained by an individual with regular entries of commentary, descriptions of events, or other material such as graphics or video. Entries are commonly displayed in reverse-chronological order. Blog can also be used as a verb, meaning to maintain or add content to a blog." – via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blog
So what would you call them? commentators?!
I agree with the specific of what you are saying but generally don't understand how a valid budget can be prepared when for the most part there is either no reporting by ministries or the reporting is so deficient that it is considered unreliable and has resulted in qualified or denials of opinions.
After 3 delays to the budget he then finally gives a reason for the delay. Why couldn't the reason be given the first time around?
Smells suspicious to me. Maybe the UK just got involved after seeing that the government could not get a budget prepared. Maybe the UK thought the Premier / minister of finance may have been cooking the books trying his best to make the numbers look better than they were.
Based on how the premeir always like to lay blame on someone else why did he not say that it was the UK's fault from the first delay?
You're name is really not James Ebanks, but "MAYBE"
I can think of "what ifs" and "maybes" all my life, but I love to stick to the facts.
If the Premier had ensured the budget was prepared earlier and presented to the FCO earlier it would have probably all been resolved by now. He already changed the date it must be brought to the Legislative Assembly and at this rate *hopefully* it is done by the start of the new financial year. Just sayin'…
just sayin eh… probability lad, is probability. It not about him.
Everyone knew that various status grants were long overdue. However, many of the people you would have expected to be granted status were not. The process made the country look like a joke. The problem we have with the massive grant of status is that no background checks were done. It seems that status was just thrown here there and everywhere. It seems that crime has increased from those status grants. And of course, I'm not saying that all of the people granted status were criminals but some definitely are. It is doubtful that the UK wanted status to be thrown away like that. I'm pretty sure they would have wanted the grants to be made only after proper checks as to whether or not that person had a criminal background and whether they would be an asset to the country. As we all know, people flew in, picked up their papers and flew out again and, worst of all, prisoners were granted status as well. In addition, socials services has become overwhelmed with more and more people needing help. Schools are fit to burst and traffic was ridiculous. Normally, you would expect infrastructure to be put in place BEFORE a mass status grant not after. We will always be playing catch up now.
If I produced a budget for next year, based on numbers that I could have made up on the spot (because there are no audited accounts for the x amount of years), and I have borrowed millions of dollars off you, with no concrete plans in the works to recoup those said monies or account for how the proposed budget will be spent etc, would you approve it?
To the poster that said if they get rid of all the civil servants would we even notice! Obviously you are an idiot and you were not in Cayman during or after Ivan? Careful Cayman, you people have very short memories. The only people that were still here were the die hard, real no paper Caymanians, for love of country.
Now all we have here are leeches sucking this country dry, and you honestly want civil servants to bare the load of these financial crisis.
Interesting… i wasn't aware that there was a census conducted immdiately after Ivan… I imagine that's how you knew there were only "die hard no paper caymanians" around. As usually, the discussion has again drifted into the caymanian vs non-caymanian relm. just to correct you, there were many Ex-pats here working their butts off after Ivan, i know because i was one of them. The origin of your comment was to address the need for the Civil service, and on that point i will concur, many civil servants were out after Ivan assisting other, cleaning, getting the country back into an operational state… but please don't pollute your point by throwing in such inaccurate 'stats'.
17:42. You worked after Ivan because you saw the benefits of your work. You reaped while the going was good. You didnt come here to suffer. You came here because you saw good coming to you in the end. And thank you for your help. You helped, us but inturn we the Cayman Islands help you also to better you living.
No, I didn't come to reap while the going was good. I had already been here for 10 years when Ivan struck. And again, no, I didn't come because Cayman "help you also to better you living" (whatever that means). I came because my husband's company insisted. We were very happy where we were and didn't want to leave. When we visited the island to see if we could live here, we found it overly hot and (apart from the beach, which is stunning) not as beautiful as the mountainous region we were already living in. We were not given a choice. At the time, we hoped it would be a short-term placement and we would be moved somewhere else before long. We are still here, largely because we have had children in the meantime and their lives are here, as are our closest friends.
You have no idea what you are talking about because you have no idea what expatriates' lives are like, either in their places of origin or here in Cayman. I can understand why — you likely get tired of introducing yourself and your customs over and over again to people who are new (and often critical, being overwhelmed by feelings of homesickness and cultural dissonance). I feel the same way myself after living here for 15 years. However, this doesn't give you the right to make sweeping generalizations. You are quite simply wrong.
Sun 15:17, YOU, repeat YOU, are the idiot and a typically xenophobic insulting one at that. Yes, there were a lot of civil servants who did wonderful selfless work after Ivan but a large number of them were expats AND paper Caymanians AND born Caymanians including me. Your type make me sick, you're ruining our country with your hate, envy and diviseveness and actually I wonder if you really were out there helping since you spout such utter bulls—. And guess what, I am a proud born Caymanian who does not constantly look down on others who happen not to have been born here.
Really? I was here, and so was my husband. We are expats. So were all my expat teacher friends, who cleaned their school and got it running again so your kids could continue their education without disruption. Maybe you're the one with the short memory.
That is not completely true.
You martyrs that stayed during and after Ivan have very short memories. The 'only' other people still here were the long suffering expats that were rolled over within a few years after that. Those that you rolled over that had been here for just under 10yrs are the ones that stayed behind and helped rebuild.
I know this for a fact. I worked along side them.
Again, Joe, the paper Caymanian, try to understand that the previous commenter does have a point with your irrational theory of reducing the civil service and cutting their salaries.
Again stop makeing things up to please yourself. I understand why you do that but it does not help and only hides the truth. I came. I helped rebuild.I left 4 years ago. I am not paper Caymanian and have NO reason to want that. Get an education. Get a job. Get experiance. Work hard. Vote responsibly.
I understand that you do not have the capacity to see that the Civil service is the load to bare in the current CIG caused financial crisis. If I were in your shoes I too would rally behind those who have fed, sheltered, given me free gas, free healthcare, a job with no responsibilities (especially if your in the financial records department), and knowing that they have your back no matter what trouble you get yourself into. I only wish you could see that all of this is being payed for by everyone else who has worked hard for their money and does not have the protection of the currrent leadership.
And I was one of the many who came to Cayman after Ivan to help Caymanians rebuild. Most of the people working hard that I could see were expats and young Caymanians. And the ones making it hard to get anything done was (you guessed it) all the Immigration, permit, red tape,anti expat people in Civil service. You should bare your own load like the rest of us.
"And I was one of the many who came to Cayman after Ivan to help Caymanians rebuild." So that's why you know so little. You just came yesterday… and to think that you were here an expert of the Cayman Islands. The civil service is a load to bear, but I can tell you, if they cut them any further, it will end up hurting the private sector, because CS job-performances will go down, and yes… it may end up hurting people like yourself and sending you back home.
Keep talking and and proving my point exactly. You seem to be an expert at everything including my life. I came. I helped. I left 4 years ago. It would help if you stuck to the facts you know instead of the facts you make up. Explains a lot of why your leadership is what it is instead of what it talks like it is.
Ha… "your leadership"? Maybe that is what "you" need to start thinking about!
With divisive insults like that, all I can say is that you are a jackass.
I am usually pretty non-confrontational in my comments but you Sir are a MORON and exactly the type of person we want out of civil services.
Please Cayman quit using our Civil Services as social welfare so that I do not have to meet people like this when I go up to a desk. And I am sure the civil servants that continue to work hard regardless of watching the wasters do nothing all day but talk on their cell phones spreading their uneducated xenophobic rhetoric feel exactly the same. I would like to express my admiration and sympathy to the hard working civil servants as it must be extremely difficult to see money that should be going to your raises instead being given to your "unemployable" peers.
No, we want the Civil Serice to bear their fair share of the burden, which is not just a freeze on hiring or the ban on buying new toys!
Your comment about only 'real Caymanians' being here after Ivan is entirely incorrect. Many, many work permit holders and 'paper' Caymanians stayed and worked hard to get Cayman back on its feet. And those hard-working work permit holders were rewarded with being 'rolled over' while all the sissy people who left the Island for comfort's sake were able to continue working here. That was one of the most unfair decisions made by the governing body of Cayman.
Totally agree. I was one of those work permit holders who stayed before, during and after Ivan, and worked hard to help rebuild Cayman (which I had come to love and viewed as my home away from home), enduring the lack of basic conveniences, light, running water, etc, while my Caymanian neighbours next door to me, left for Miami and stayed there with their relatives until things returned to some level of normalcy and basic services were restored. This was not an isolated case, I knew of other Caymanians who did the same. I got a generator about a month after Ivan and shared it with my other Caymanian neighbours on the other side of my apartment as they had none, and I could not bare to think that I could turn on my light and my fans at night, while they were sweltering in the heat (they did thank me, but pity they were not on the work permit board). Because, as you guessed it, my reward 1 year later for my hardwork, loyalty and contributions to these islands – was the Roll-over – without so much as a thank you for services rendered for the past 7 years. Other work-permit holders who left immediately after Ivan because they could not endure post-hurricane conditions, or those that were forced to leave because their employers laid them off due to damage to their offices, were allowed to return after several months, and because they had a "break" in their stay, they were not rolled over and allowed to remain 7 more years. As my grandmother used to say " Donkey says the world is not level". The people who proved that they were for Cayman's best interests were treated like dirt, while others who cared more for "creature comforts" and abandoned this place in its time of need (both "born" Caymanians and expats alike), were all welcomed back with open arms. Well, there is such a thing as Karma, what goes around eventually comes back around. Maybe one day it will be realized, that the many valuable people who were expelled and their economic contributions could have helped this country to remain solid in the midst of the crisis now facing the country.
Since the last election, the UK government has implemented significant cuts to its budget and overall services, to reenergize the economy/private sector.
The resulting effects have been???
Not what rightwingers hoped for…
I knew that my comment (blog?) would get many "thumbs down" but, interestingly enough, not one response refuting the facts.
Interestingly, amidst the talk on how bad these islands are, no one talks about the MP's expense scandals, and the corruption in the UK government. I mean we have corruption here, but not like it is in the UK.
You are right, of course. Every country has its share of corruption. There is a difference, though. Once the expense scandal was discovered, the country (and its taxpayers and media), including the government at large, demanded a proper airing, appropriate penalties and a change in the system. It was not simply described as "business as usual" and left to fester for another election term. I hope the same thing happens here, and those politicians who are abusing the system or making unethical choices are rooted out and dealt with. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be happening.
The Cayman people will hopefully remember when our Premier said publicly that he would take the lead in cutting his own salary and that of his party members.I do believe that it was also asked of the opposition members as well.Did any of this come to pass?I certainly dont remember that event taking place.Correct me if I am wrong someone.Its a hard pill to swallow when our own Govt leaders do NOT lead the way in cost cutting but expect the rest of the CS to take a cut(3.2% was it?)Just recently I understand that the school in west bay will be getting a huge face lift or is it being rebuilt?Where does all this money come from all of a sudden.I listened to Ralston and Elio on Rooster the other day and it was so pitiful to continue to hear from them both the fact that the previous Govt was to blame for our money woes.True enough but I for one am getting sick and tired of this childish blame game every second sentence..Its as bad as hearing the phrase"Madame Speaker" in the house.Why dont you gentlemen get on with the job that you are being paid such large salaries to do?
West Bay Primary is being expanded and all of the new equipment has already been purchased and stored at the school. Can you spell West Bay vote buying?
dat da bad ting… i cant spel 2 gud
they're not really 'leaders'.
And it is rumoured they can't pay the last three months' light bill
McKeva, poor people is fed up and tired of the imposed taxes – you and rest of the government are not feeling this starvation diet .
Of Course The Government can cut cost of operations. There many offices that are over-staffed as a result of the recession. There are way too many expats sitting at their desk and fiddling with their computers to look busy. Instead of the government finding away to lessen the cost of these expats there are opening positons or either looking ways and means to have them promoted or they are instantly promoting them . Its a crying shame how Caymanians suck up to the expats and leave their own qualified Caymanians behind. This happens when one feel insecured of their jobs, they will prefer to promote an expat and leave the caymanian behind. Shame on you bunch of suppressors. Awake UDP cut the cost of the expats staff and you will save money.
I agree. When I got here 17 years ago and started a family, there was 0% unemployment for Caymanians. Now there is 15% unemployment and 8,000 people getting some form of Govt aid.
The Civil Service needs ALL administration jobs to be Caymanian! How about training? The local kid with a college degree can certainly learn how to….IT? Planning? GIS? Disaster Mngmt? Roads? Works? The list goes on. Cuts must come from within and if you hold another passport beyond Cayman waters, you must be the first to go.
Again, whether or not you are entitled to "double dip" is not the question. The question is: what is the "leadership" of this country willing to do to contribute to the solution to our economic problems? This country's "leadership" seems willing to waste money to influence voters and then demand the rest of us sacrifice.
Mr. Bush, on the day when your words and actions agree with each other then perhaps more of us will agree with you.
This is the reality: The UK looks after their own civil servants, Governors and Commissioners of Police! But we local ones, it seems, deserve more than a 3.2 cut on our salaries. McKeeva is left to do as they say or else, and it appears that instead of him cutting everybody in accordance to their salary grade, he is going to do another cross-the-board cut. I am sorry to say, but sometimes I would rather the UK out of our financial affairs.
Chris….you should be upset with your elected members. Through short sighted leadership they are the ones that have allowed to CS to grew out of hand.
You speak of reality. Cayman has no positive income, we are borrowing money, have become a deficit spending country, no new income streams, no cut backs. You sound like the labor unions in the USA. We want our jobs, money and benefits and oh you aren't making any money in order to pay, not our problem.
Reality Cayman cannot sustain the CS as it is.
well, like the one man-one vote, that was not one of the provision in our constitiution… so tough!
Correct me if I'm wrong but did the Civil Service take an actual cut in pay or did they simple not receive a scheduled imcrease.
The CS took a 3.2% cut, but what they "packaged" it as was a revocation of a "Cost of Living" increase…
Um, then I would like to say that on my paycheck. Because I took a clean 3.2 % cut.
If you define a cost of living increase as a scheduled increase then fine but I would take a scheuled increase as an anual increment or salary raise. There is a freeze on the CS anual increases in salary. Obviously there are some that do get through however.
And the freeze on salaries has been in place since 2000.
no, there was a definate cut in my salary…not an illusion. by the way for all those who hate civil servants.. can't you see what your leaders are doing? Diverting attention so you will not look at the real issues, like their out of hand spending and curry favours, giving jobs to friends and quite frankly making every political crony a good old employee of the civil service for the four years they are in power. I suppose that it is ok, just as long as honest hardworking civil servants who earn a pittance are victimized. Hope that will continue to comfort you when the bad times really hit.. oh i suppose that will be civil servants fault too. I do not know who Joe public thinks the amorphous civil servants are, they are just ordinary people doing the work they are paid to do to look after their families. Joke is on all of us my friends. Smoking mirrors i say. Wake up and smell the coffee and take off your rose coloured glasses.
Yup. Mine too – exactly 3.2%. By the way – around 70% of the CS is Caymanian. Yes, we are bloated. Yes, too many inefficient workers. Yes, too many fat cats in the ministries. But dont tell me I did not take a paycut.
This is a joke. So much for demanding a surplus and screwing around with the numbers. This is worrisome because there is no real difference between the two parties UDP and PPM. The lack of proper systems and management in government should now be abundantly clear.
Forwarded notions thus far:
– Cayman is in a dire economic state.
– The UK is in a better / superior economic state.
– The UK should be embraced as they sincerely wish to help and protect the people of the Cayman Islands.
– The UK stands as a sound model to copy for good governance.
– Cayman 'government' has supported / is supporting an alarming percentage of the population (be it via employment and or financial assistance for living – "benefits" anyone?!) in this year of 2011 – especially when contrasted to the UK. (OMG!)
– The UK has no major issues and concerns in regards to supporting, feeding and housing its population.
– Cayman ought to hang on to horror tales from 50 YEARS AGO as a 'warning' against thinking outside of the box.
– The referred to 'examples' of that period received no "help" from the UK in securing their downward spiral and current state of negativity.
– The UK is not a slimey, two-faced beast not to be trusted by those that don't quite fit their preferred mold (interpret that how you may).
As I read the commentary surrounding these issues I cannot do much more than shake my head in disbelief, as there is nothing more pathetic than intellectual debate on the bases of flawed notions.
(Turn off CNN and BBC – put down your copy of The Guardian and The Times … open your eyes to reality people. Is that really to much to ask?)
Lastly and most importantly – to my fellow Caymanians … always remember to bear in mind the source of your criticisms. In this particular instance they do not hold much value at all, however, some people simply like to hear / read themselves speak.
I am mother-tongue and what you have told me is a complete insult!!! OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!!!
I like the false notion, "Cayman is in a dire economic state." I am also reading that if Caymanians should ever go Independent for standing up for their rights, "Cayman will be in a worse economic state." Many people don't know the history of Jamaica. Jamaica became "corrupt" and that is when it declined. But I can tell you, in terms of Independence, they are the most "driven to excellence" set of Caribbean people. With proper checks and balances, and the people allowed to draft their own democratic Constition, I don't see why the false that breed fear of Independence is being repeated. Independence is not suicide, it is having the courage to go on your own. It is unthinkable that we can forever be a child in a mother's arms and refuse to grow up!
Sorry, I wish I could grow up, but –
1. the milk is too good; and,
2. the breast is too pretty!
Unless…. you can convince me of better milk and prettier women, I am not budging!
Fish tea…..an ok position IF the island was stable, making money, properly governed, normal crime etc etc. Business 101, don't make a deal changing decision when tings are not normal.
Lachlan, I personally don't think Cayman is getting any better. We're going to have to make a decision before it gets too worse.
"….some people simply like to hear / read themselves speak."
Ah, out of the mouths of babes……
You're quoting from the Bible… "out of the mouths of babes and sucklings, the kingdom of God will usher in…" LOL… the Spirit of God actually caused you to elevate Whodatis
Give the man a break, "out of the mouths of babes…"
He was talking about himself.
Good one. You would get on well with my wife!
you talking about a mess this country will be in: keep messing with the Civil Servants man……
So what this headline could be is:
"Mac decides to cut public spending on the poor and needy in order to pander to the Civil Service Union"
Oh… he's not pandering to the civil service. More likely headline: "Mac decides to continue to spend government money indescriminately and everyone suffers."
Stop hiring more grunts to cover for the old dead wood, coasting on their jumped up degree, upper management wanabees. Kick the unproductive deadwood CSs and turn them loose to find other private sector jobs or start businesses of their own…..zzzzzzzz… ehum, just woke up, I was dreaming.
Now I remember my dealings with many CS frontline officers these are some typical recollections. I show up to the counter after waiting in line only to be greeted with a scowl and maybe chirps or two. Not one clerk at the counter is free; they have to finish enjoying their morning newspaper and patty first or look busy by frantically shuffling paperwork. It's a competition to see who can get through the day with doing the least work. What an example these skivers are to young trainees. Seemstheir supervisors condone it since they do it to. I can just imagine what goes on, or doesn't, in the back offices if this is happening on the front lines.
On a recently occasion there was only myself in the queue and I was promptly told by a not so busy supervisor " you are at the wrong end of the line". Oh, and its very encouraging when you have to wait for a CS to finish taking a personal call on their cell.
This is a snapshot point of view of course but you have probably all seem this behaviour on more than one occasion. This is the ultimate insult to the Caymanians that do pull their weight and more. Where is the outstanding work ethic that most Caymanians used to have?
Throw in the extra bodies to cover for CSs picking up their adolescent kids from school and taking all their allotted sick days every month and the Premier wonders why he can make ends meet???
From the start, they should have cut like this:-
Anyone above 15 grand – 30% cut
Anyone above 10 grand – 20%
Above 5 grand – 10%
Above 3 grand – 5%
Above 2 grand – 2%
Below 2 grand – NIL
Problem SOLVED!
I think, the budget would have been balanced long time if the cuts were fair:-
15,000 – 15% cut
14,000 – 14% cut
13 – 13% cut
12 – 12%
11 – 11%
10 – 10%
9 – 9%
all the way down to 2 thousand – 2%
And then anyone making lower than 2 thousand would not have to get cut. I think that would be more fair than FLAT cut.
SHAME ON ALL THE MLA's!
That was my experiance exactly every time I had to deal with any CIG entity. Pathetic is the only word that comes to mind. More would get done if most of the CS staff would just stay home and get out of the way of the few (mostly expats) that do the actual work. By my estimation if they cut the labor force in half (and kept the working people instead of the unemployables) they could get more work done and maybe even change their reputation. The problem is all the now unemployed pissed off voters that leadership would have in their face. Thats the only problem. And its the bad leadership problem and not Caymans.
Big Mac misunderstood the FCO. They said he needed to cut "personal" costs not "personnel" costs.
Apparently he is still trying to hold off on telling the FCO how much the Cohen loan really cost us.
What happened to the 2010 – 2011 budget? Do we have the results of his projections yet for this period?
A few days ago he was going to work some numbers and turn an alleged $5 million deficit into a $15 million surplus
Now it appears he is distracting from the deficit position of his last budget by discussing the 2011-2012 financial budget.
What happened? Do we have the promised $15 million surplus for 2010-2011 or not?
Will the CService cuts take place?? YES
Why? because the CS has no representation from its assn (take for eg the previous cuts/the blaming of accountants instead of blaming those who brought in the stooopid accounting sytem which has cost Millions and counting!)
Now, they're going back to centralzied systems – which is what had been in place successfully for so many decades!
Also, the two largest blocks of CServants (teachers/law) are non-CI's..
Oh, i forgot.. those non-Caymanian workers are being fast-tracked for status/PR so they can claim that the majority in the service are "Caymanians"..yeah right!
Even work contracts being renewed illegally without advertisment to keep their favourite peeps on — and I'm NOT talking about the only politicians doing this – this is internal also!
i dare you… Prove me wrong!
Doesn't it generally fall to the person making a claim to provide the evidence for it? If you have proof that what you say is going on, please provide it here. It would be a useful tool in the public discussion. Thank you.
More expat bashing and baseless statements. What a surprise!
More accurately, the UK has refused to approve accounts which already understate how bad a mess Cayman is in because the accounts they are in turn based on are largely guesswork.
Chagos! …….. I said it.
Do I qualify for the toaster oven?
For Justice!…….. I said it.
Do I qualify for the toast?
Watch out! You are going to make Whodatis angry by stealing his Chagos joker card.
Wait a minute, coming to think of it Whodatis is always angry, so no harm done.
Glad to see I stay on the minds of so many of you folks on here … tell me, am I in your dreams as well? Admit it fellas, you love Whodatis don't you?
Fear not, I love you too.
xoxo
Yours truly.
People already know that you are British to the core, a loyalist to the Crown – that believe that everything they mandate is of righteous order. I notice Pit Bull that all your posts are in defense of the UK wrongful actions. Maybe you should try putting down the UK joker card as well. Opppps 😉
Maybe he is banking on the Rapture?
yeah, alden's coming to save us now… what an illusion of illusions!
***** CNS: "Has been delayed yet again as a result of the UK querying civil service costs." Always we have hidden in the background another Government controlling our policies. That is the same reason why Cayman can't get anywhere. Whenever the elected local government thinks of doing something, they always have Mother to delay their plans and to tell them what they "must" do… even if its going to cause a financial strain on the citizens of this country. Welcome on being a British Overseas "dependent" Territory that still has not yet grown its teeth. *****
wow… lol… do you have to be so frank and tell it like it is
So, Libertarian, campaign (hopefully successfully) for independence (which the UK would give you like a shot) and get the colonial yoke off from around our necks. Then watch the financial industry move away (quick time) and all those office spaces get empty (seen how many are empty even now?) and the rental apartments sitting unrented and the mortgage holders unable to pay them and being foreclosed on by the banks and the economy wind down even further and faster than at present. But, hallelujah, we will be free, free at last of the UK and its colonialism.
***** If we can't stand up and fight for our rights, then we are left being under an abuser (see what is going on now in TCI). Many countries were abused by the UK and had no other choice but to sever ties. We are scared of this, because we are feed that if we do economic tragedy will occur. But America is properous! Canada is properous! India is properous! Many other places that severed ties are properous! Not condoning Independence as our first option, but standing up and defending our democratic rights; and if that fails, the question is, will we continue to be under micromanagement? Peace *****
CNS: Libertarian, the stars at the beginning of your comments are kind of annoying. If you register you will be able to find your comments just as easily, and later on you'll be able to post a profile where you can outline your general views.
Thank you CNS
CNS, Thank you. I will see if I can do this from now on
Prosperous…like Jamaica?
Independence didn't ruin Jamaica – corruption did!
You shout an awful lot, but I am seriously beginning to wonder if you actually know anything. The FCO is involved in the budget process because legislation passed by your Government, consisting of true born Caymanian MLA's, requires them to be involved. The Public Management and Finance Law ( 2005 ) passed under the PPM government contains the following provisions:
14. (1) The Governor in Cabinet shall manage the financial performance and financial position of the core government in accordance with the principles set out in this section.
(2) The policies and decisions of the Governor in Cabinet shall be consistent with the principles of responsible financial management set out in subsection (3), and the impact of those decisions on the core government’s financial performance and position shall be measured using accrual accounting.
(3) The principles of responsible financial management referred to in subsection (2) are –
(a) total core government revenue less total core government expenses (measured using generally accepted accounting practice) should be positive;
(b) total core government assets less total core government liabilities (measured using generally accepted accounting practice) should be positive;
(c) borrowing should not exceed an amount for which the sum of interest, other debt servicing expenses and principal repayments for a financial year are more than ten per cent of core government revenue (calculated using generally accepted accounting practice) for that financial year:
d) net debt should be no more than eighty per cent of core government revenue, where, for the purposes of this principle, net debt is defined as – (i) core government borrowing less core government liquid assets; (ii) borrowing that is serviced directly by a statutory authority or government company but is in the name of the Government; and (iii) the percentage of statutory authority and government company debt guaranteed by the Government that regulations made under this Law specify is to be included in the net debt calculation;
(e) cash reserves should be maintained at a level no less than the estimated executive expenses (measured using generally accepted accounting practice) for the following ninety days, where, for the purposes of this principle, cash reserves are defined as core government cash and cash equivalents, marketable securities and deposits, and other liquid assets, including any amounts held for restricted funds and reserves purposes;
34 (3) The Financial Secretary shall not –
borrow money on behalf of the Governor in Cabinet, unless the borrowing –
(iii) has been approved by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office of the United Kingdom, where any of the principles of responsible financial management specified in section 14(3)(c), (d) or (e) are in breach;
Now I know that's a lot of reading, but try to get through it all. The PPM breached the conditions that trigger the FCO involvement. There is an argument to be made that the FCO, in signing off on any borrowing which breaches section 14, is ultimately exposing the UK to liability in the event the Cayman government defaults. Whether such a position would stand up to a legal challenge will hopefully never be tested, but I would argue that the interest rate at which Cayman is able to borrow reflects this belief on the part of the lenders. Since you are big on rights, you presumably would acknowledge that under these circumstances, the FCO has every right to make sure it is comfortable with the CIG budget.
I would seriously like to see you set out your reasoning for includingthe Cayman Islands in a group of successful post-independence economies which includes the USA, Canada and India. Apart from the fact we all an "A" in our names, what do we have in common?
Thanks for this, O'Really. As an informed, fiscally prudent but non-accountant voter, I am struck by how sensible and good-governance-oriented the PMFL is. Pity about the time wasting incompetent civil servants who refuse to comply with it and also pity about the fact that their bosses don't hold them accountable for that non compliance and are themselves not held accountable for THEIR failure to do their job. Ah so it go.
You are struck by how sensible and good-governance-oriented the PMFL is??? Can I believe what I am hearing! Thanks Oreally??? Incompetent civil servants??? LOL….. where do I start from this most ignoramous comment
So, Brains (aka Anonymous2), you want to LOL at the following: 'how sensible and good governance oriented the PMFL is" do you? I wonder if you know the slightest thing about it; I suspect not You've read the posts on CNS from the useless finance civil servants or you've posted them yourself and you've listened to the gossip. But check out what others with real brains say about it -eg Miller/Shaw and, when it comes out, I would bet you, the Luck report. You also LOL at "incompetent civil servants". Trust me Bobo, most of us don't think this is a matter to LOL about at all. It is a disgrace and I would bet you are one of them.
Sadly, O'Really, you are at least 1 revision of the PMFL behind. After 2nd November 2009 (Constitution Day), the PMFL was amended to replace all those references to the Financial Secretary to "Minister of Finance"… Ahem.
Otherwise, your points hold good, the principles in the PMFL are great; it is just a shame that no government since it was passed has stuck to the principles of responsible financial management outlined in the law, which is why the current crew are forced to negotiate with the FCO.
Damn those pesky revisions! Still, one out of two ain't bad. Thanks for the update.
One out of two is bad! That means you need to become more updated before posting stuff on the net as fact!
Thanks for the advice.I'll try to keep my future posts as fact filled and interesting as yours.
Libertarian…….Cayman's financial situation and economy is very unbalanced right now to say the least. Working with the UK could provide some stabilization and direction. IMHO independence would push Cayman into a horrible depression for possibly 2 decades ie JA and The Bahamas.
But again, Libertarian is right in a way that is a personal belief. Many Caymanians are scare because of the stories told to them about Jamaica and other countries that went Independence. But I bet you one thing, the same folks saying "no" to independence on this site, are the same ones that would complain under UK's discriminatory policies. It is only time like what Governor Jack said in his last speech to the islands. Independence will come – but WHEN. Do we Caymanians choose WHEN or are we going to wait until they choose it for us?
Food for Thought
"Do we Caymanians choose WHEN or are we going to wait until they choose it for us?" That is a very important question. And what will we have to fall back on? We can't fold our arms and believe peace and safety under her "good governance." I guess "preparation," that is what I am trying to get Caymanians/ locals, and all those "thumbs-down bloggers" to understand – the unpredictable nature of the Foreign Office. There are alot of lessons we can learn from what is happening in TCI, and we better wake up and take heed.
Who is this doom and gloom prophet Lachlan McTavish? Is he the same dive master from Spanish Bay Reef from the 1970's? What is his education,training and experience in international relations, law, political economics and where has he been an advisor previously and to which government in the world? Has he ever operated at the international level in any form or fashion?
Jamaica in particular do not have the type of economy we do and there are different reasons for their problems. Did the British adequately prepare Jamaica by investing in the education of the masses prior to independence,or did the colonial class system prevail?
The Bahamas are doing well and standing on their own now. With proper planning we can indeed learn from any mistakes made for our self-determination. Progress towards such a path is inevitable whether we like it or not as this is a fact of life.
Fair argument … so let's give it a go!
If it doesn't work out we can go back to the UK cap in hand or put it up on the internet for the highest bidder.
Just let me sell my house first, but by the looks of it, that ain't going to happen this year or probably next.
Cayman, don't know its diplomatic capabilities. We don't have to go back to the UK, we can first of all, strengthen our ties with our neighbors and form allies with other powers other than the poor a%s uk one!
The Bahamas does indeed present an interesting case study for Cayman, given how important to the financial well-being of the islands the financial service industry is. Here are a couple of extracts from Wikipedia touching on this.
"The following prominent offshore centres now specialise in certain niche markets:
The Bahamas has a considerable number of registered vessels. The Bahamas used to be the dominant force in the offshore financial world, but fell from favour in 1970s after independence."
"At about this time the jurisdiction was also rocked by a number of banking scandals. It also imposed an ill-advised practice of restricting admissionto the Bahamian bar to nationals of the Bahamas, which had a diluting effect on the quality legal talent in the jurisdiction (by preventing the recruitment of expatriates), which is critical to the success of setting up sophisticated offshore structures. Not coincidentally, the rise of Cayman as the dominant force in offshore finance almost precisely mirrors the decline of the Bahamas. See generally Tolley's Tax Havens (2000)"
As you say, Cayman could learn from the mistakes of others but in my view, for wildly differing reasons, few of Cayman's current political leaders are capable of the statesmen like qualities required to transition to independence without seriously threatening the stability of the financial service industry.
Hence, to you –
INDEPENDENCE = A FAILED FINANCIAL INDUSTRY.
I do think something is missing from your equation in light of the many other places that have went Independent and are doing well.
I have said for 15 years, read the history of Bermuda, The Bahamas and JA. Cayman is making the very same mistakes. I agree, if Cayman went independent tomorrow with the present leadership GT would be a ghost town. Also one of my issues because the group that would leave stay out of politics and have their bail out plans, short sighted in my view.
That is where we ensure democracy in the Cayman Islands, but it is inevitable. The day is coming. Will we sit and allow it to come upon us when we are not ready? I don't think that is the right attitude, because I feel strengthening ties with the UK means more and more compromising our culture and democratic rights. One day, we may compromise too much and it will be too late.
See http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20110522/lead/lead8.html
Roman Catholic deacon Rev Peter Espeut said said the solution to the problem was to elevate men in the education system. "We should never have a situation where 80 per cent of the population at the university are women," said Espeut.
well… that sounds real good. I am sure we are able to aspire. .'o)
NO – I don't look good in wompers!!
Wompers here are outdated, I guess you have to visit England's dump to find those, because not even our Mt. Trashmore has them.
The Premier will prevail then all the haters will keep silent.
In that case the Premier is doomed.
Please leave the Premier alone! Can't you all see he is busy working those super computers at the new Administration Building that he fought so hard to build for us?.
Just waituntil the computers finish their calculations and he waves his magic wand and "Aha" a 15 million surplus appears. Next thing you know the U.K. will want him creating a surplus for their budget too!
Well all that bravado over cutting civil servants costs has evaporated. Mac must be worrying about the elections already.
The approval of the budget by the UK will be a condition of any loan facilities by a commercial lender to a public body.
The benefits ARE too high and are not sustainable without the introduction of direct taxation on income, which Mac is also opposed to.
How much more scare tactics this man will use to put fear into the civil servants so that he can control them?
Nah! That's foolishness what you say about scare tactics. Read the article!
I read the article, but unlike you I do not fall for every bit of foolishness I read.
Which civil servants? The long term “never get my job” or the” Protected “ex-pats who never need a work permit or are ever subject to rollover so have instant status ( er um voters) ones ??? Wish this Caymanian could break into that goldmine, forget Butterfield vault, just let me work for Govt $$$
Why? Why?! When will we wake up from this nightmare?
Yet another shortcoming of the current government is blamed on the civil service. One almost gets the idea Mr. Bush would rather do away with the civil service entirely. It interests me that Mr. Bush seems to have a lot to say about what the UK wants and doesn't want but there never seems to be any corroborative statements by anyone connected with the UK/FCO. Is this all smoke and mirrors on the part of Mr. Bush?
like to believe, but i think not – the uk is always behind somewhere pulling the strings
So cut the strings,10:57. The UK would give you the scissors with a smile just to get rid of us.
lol… but before they give the scissors, you better study why they are smiling, because whilst you were turning your back to find the string to be cut, they took something from you in the meantime – TYPICAL UK 🙂
That still does not stop you from cutting those strings.
Yes it does, because if you are being played for a fool, why should you be in the same situation?
Now that's a defeatist attitude. Just because you're being played for a fool doesn't mean you have to BE a fool.
and tell me, how is it a fool by making attempts to leave an abusive, bad, or sour relationship? you have to really be a fool to remain in it
I wonder….if Mr. Bush got rid of the civil service, would anyone notice?
Yes please, do away with the civil service. Outsource the lot. It would bring costs down and increase efficiency, but that will never happen because the civil service are all voters! However, I DO think with 8000 Caymanians getting public aid and 15% Caymanian unemployment rates, that the Govt civil service should implement the rollover for expats and be forced to actually advertise these contract jobs so locals have a chance to get these lucrative positions. I’m an unemployed BS degreed Caymanian with an excellent resume and I can’t even get an interview with Govt HR for IT or operations management. Sound fair?
You have a BS degree and you want to outsource all of Government????
The Premeir would love that if it could work. There are significant portions of Government that makes little to no money. However it is the responsibility of the Government to make sure the country has these services. Take for example the prison you think you can make enough money to pay for all the officers and the upkeep of the facility.
Plus if such an option existed, more than likely some of "your" fellow Caymanians would be out of work to fight with you for jobs that are not there.
You do make an interesting note about the roll over policy but here is your problem. Roll one expat out roll another in. Thats why the policy has failed. It serves neither side.
Question: Is that happening because Caymanians are not qualified or because they dont want to work with them and prefer to work with expats?
The gravy train finally hits the buffers?
Any UK civil service auditor must look at the 'extras' handed out to public servants in the Cayman Islands, and the fact that no proper records seem to be kept of them, in horror.
Watch out for this escalating into a full-scale audit of government spending because I'd guess right now HMG are getting close to quietly knocking on the door wanting to look at the books. Beware, because if the knock isn't answered promptly they will simply kick the door in and come in anyway.
"I'd guess right now HMG are getting close to quietly knocking on the door wanting to look at the books".
FYI, HMG has looked at our books each and every year for a number of years now.
Can anybody verify that the FCO is really saying that the personnel costsbe cut? After all, the personnel costs were fine and we didn't need a loan and now what is new?
I don't understand where it matters that the cuts are coming from as long as there are cuts.
So if they cut you and your household, it doesn't matter?
"So if they cut you and your household, it doesn't matter?"
Yes, it does matter. What I was trying to say is that if the cuts were made from elsewhere such as expenditures:paving businesses parking lots, excessive travel of MLA's, MLA's salaries/pensions instead of the Civils Servants who are fighting to make ends meet. That is still a cut.
Come on big Mac! Cut the personnel cost where it counts, not like that 3.2% crap across the board, Slaughtering your Indians to save all those derisory heads and big cheeses so they can keep collecting their obese salaries. Cut all those colossal salaries and benefits’, and here is how you go about it! Start with yours and your cronies and work your way down,” come on now Bo Bo”, is that so hard.
As far as I know, they all dissappointed last when they brought it up in the House – not one of them, PPM, UDP, and Independent, spoke out to have their salaries cut by at least 20% But… sure as hell came out of House, cutting the entire Civil Service 3.2
That's what we get with Uneducated Dumb People. Nothing from nothing leaves nothing. Unless your a millionaire.
It is obvious to the whole world, except the Cayman Government, that the ludicrous costs of administrating the Cayman Islands is unsustainable.
Which 50,000 person town in the world can support 18 MLA's, plus benefits, costing about $1 million each, plus the bloated civil service to support the same?
The UK is right. Cayman needs to reduce its parasitic load and become more sustainable.
Perhaps if Cayman had no government at all, the average person would be far better off.
Don't you think it might be the strain of the pension scheme?
A Quote from Mail online… 21 June 2010, Millions of public sector workers are facing a painful levy to fund their 'unsustainable' gold-plated pensions.
The UK Government has recruited ex -Labour Cabinet minister John Hutton to take the axe to state employees' retirement funds, which have created a staggering 1trillion pound black hole in the public finances.
Do you really think our public finances are in any form or shape, different from the UK?
The only way to lift the financial burden off the Caymanian tax payers back, is to let them help finance their own pension.
The Mail goes on to say, he is to draw up plans to hit public sector workers with a 'pension levy', which would require them to contribute far more if they want to continue to enjoy the benefits of their schemes.
Charging that an extra 2.5 per cent of salary in pension contributions will raise about 3.2 billion pounds.
Meanwhile Chancellor George Osbourn warned that Britain is 'on the road to ruin' without determined and concerted action in their budget.
Mr. Osbourn also said that no Chancellor had ever inherited such appalling public finances as those left behind by the Labour Government.
He insisted he had to accelerate austerity measures to avoid a collapse in the international confidence in Britain's ability to repay its debts.
Unquote, don't these two last paragraph sound familiar ?
The difference is, the UK has actually implemented austerity measures; they are controversial, some say too much, some say not enough, but they are there, and the public (including the civil service) are taking the hit for the greater good.
Doesn't sound much like here, does it? The only people feeling the pain here are business owners and private sector employees. Boy, it hurts.
The Cayman Islands civil service is as bloated and inefficient as they come. It is ten times the size needed for a country this size. Time for some major changes and to get rid of a lot of the useless bums that do nothing – this is fact, I should know I work there. Its like hitting your head against a brick wall though to get anything changed.
And while theyre at that try get back some of them cell phones that retired police officers and fire officers have that govt still paying bill.
This is just probably another delay tactic. How embarrasing that Mac had to put it off 3 times already and now has to come up with the excuse of the UK's approval in order to delay it again!
Rolston and Elio were on Rooster just this morning swearing that they had a surplus and that the budget would come on Monday. All I can say is, "Egg on your faces again boys!"
I feel sorry for the egg.
"excuse of the UK's approval" ??? have you not read the statement from the uk? lol… you must think cayman is an island by itself with no overlord
The UK is correct. We cannot afford our bloated inefficient civil service with their "free" (to them) benefits. We need to get rid of the seat warmers (alas, they are voters) and charge all of them for their health care and pension costs.
What? I'm a hardworking Civil Servant! If they cut us anymore, you can call me night, day, weekend, at all hours of the day, I am not answering you! You're on your own to protect yourself and business! And don't bother call 911
In case you hadn't noticed "Police Officer", we already seem to be 'on our own'. Pretty soon we won't be able to stick our noses outside our doors. How about getting addressing crime and getting the guns off our streets.
Although…our house alarm went off in the middle of the night a couple of weeks ago. Ran out of the bedroom to find the back door standing ajar. Called the police and they were on the scene 5 minutes later. That's something, no?
In other words, by these cuts, the uk wants to lower civil servants morale. And why? Unless they think of replacing more of the government workers with overseas workers from the uk… like have more british officers to sustain power over the colony
I am one of those Civil Servants who show up to work on time EVERY day and do my best to perform the duties set out in my JD. There is waste in the Civil Service, yes. However as a Middle Manager, who have tried time and time again to get rid of some lazy, half sleep at the wheel, too busy chasing man/woman to care about work the next morning, half brain person all I get out of that is stress. Here's the reason why: you spend hours and hours writting reports and memos, complaining to the Boss about it, and what happens? When you think you getting somewhere with it, a POLITICIAN steps in and says "no no, can't do that, not letting them go" So, I am stuck with the snails and the public is stuck with the bill.
Because of this happening ALL THE TIME in the service, the GOOD people are leaving…returning to the private sector. It is too frustration to deal with such a sytem as what is there.
Amen and Amen!
Finally, we get to the heart of the matter:
"However, the UK has apparently focused on the personnel costs, which the FCO has said needs further scrutiny". Go on all you like about capital expenditure but it is, and has always been the recurrent expenditure that is the problem. Hence the Miller report findings.
LOL!!
As much as I dislike and oppose our current government, to read of the UK (of all possible critics) assessing the Cayman Islands on our financial situation is laughable at best!
The NERVE!!
The UK is in no position today to lecture any other nation on the matters of good governance. The facts and statistics (albeit largely unknown and ignored) speak for themselves.
Don't worry, they will be in the position when they decide to turn this Governor into a Dictator like in TCI. Then perhaps everyone who is dissatified now, will be complaining and wishing they had back the local one.
That would be true if Cayman were not a dependent territory. If Cayman were an independent country, the UK would not be looking at your accounts in the first place.
See O'Really's post above. The UK is in exactly that position, because Caymanians put them there.
That was an excellent example of intellectual dishonesty.
You completely ignored the actual point of my post.
Were you given comprehensive exercises in grade school?
I understood your post completely. The UK's main responsibility, however, is to its own taxpayers. If, as you point out, their system is in disarray, they can't afford to risk Cayman's debt, inefficiency and corruption as well. They are busy getting their own house in order. As long as Cayman is a dependent territory, we will be subject to the UK's orders and control — as is their right under the current agreement, and as Cayman's constitution allows. This is not intellectual dishonesty. It's simple reality. Why do you expect the UK's politicians to behave more ethically than your own?
Those would be "comprehension" lessons.
what the uk won't acceept your cooked up accounts???…surprise surprise!
typical mckeeva…. always looking to blame others…..look at his list of excuses at this time last year……..what a shambles……any comment mr governonr?
So at first it was "the printing department could not complete the printing of the document on time so we that's why we have a delay".
Now the truth comes out, someone placed the proverbial cart before the horse and tried to rush a budget down to the LA at the last minute without the UK's approval.
what a tangled web we weave when at first we try to deceive.
Truth of the matter is, what he's desperately trying to do now is what he should have been doing 2 months ago, instead, he was too busy jet setting to here there and everywhere. Now his back is finally against the wall and it is a mad rush to try and throw something on paper to comply with a requirement.
I'm just waiting to see the ridiculous details that will no doubt be the end product of a budget devoid of any rational strategies.
yo mac…go back and read the miller shaw report!…or have someone read it to you!
This man couldn't even run a small bank.
How easily people forget.
Dahhhh… that's because he's running a COUNTRY!
He ran it yes…. into the ground!
Obviously you have'nt read the story, Mac is only delivering the message.
UK querrying Civil Service cost. It goes on to say, The British Government had ask for additional time to review the proposed 2011-2012 financial plan.
The main area of scrutiny is personal cost,the statemnent read.however the UK has said that the present personnel cost of the Civil service are UNSUSTAINABL.
It seems to me, people like you want your cake and eat it too, are you or any of of your family happens to be a Civil servant? i would hope not, cause you do not make sense slagging off Mac.
Thank you!
How can you say that? He ran it right into the ground…
The UK gov are having a hard time making out Macs crayon sketches…
Always someones elses fault, I don't know how McKeeva puts up with it…
Don't mind if I ask, but in this article, whose "fault" is he talking about?
***** Here again the UK's "good governance" of our financial industry intends to lead the Legislative Assembly to once again, create a wider wedge between civil servants and the local policy makers. As you can clearly see, this will cause division within government – with not one MLA feeling the pinch of another 3.2 cut like the low-income servant. I am still trying to fathom how their "good governance" policies has benefited our neighbors, the Turks and Cacois Islands, when lo and behold, just recently, taxpayers from the UK had to financially bailed them out. You would have thought that under a UK dictatorship, good governance would had easily crystalized – but that is not the case at all. Turks and Cacois appear to be is worse condition now than it was before. Today, the question still looms on each politician, whether they be PPM or UDP or Independent: When will the Cayman Islands ever be able to govern their own financial affairs without the UK's interferences and mandates that prohibits financially explored options / decisions by its own local government? As they see fit, "good governance" like the "corruption" will go so far as their "interest" is satisfied. We, the people of these islands, and our local civil servants, do come second. ***** Libertarian
"When will the Cayman Islands ever be able to govern their own financial affairs without the UK's interferences and mandates that prohibits financially explored options / decisions by its own local government?"
As soon as they request independence.
Beware! TCI requested there Independence under Premier Misick, and just after, the party was accused of corruption, and the British came in and declare Full British Rule on all of them. Now, a failing economy, I won't be surprise, after the British are done, they cut them off altogether.
bah humbug! they won't do such a thing! how can you talk against the Queen's subjects in such ole peasant fashion! this is treason against a righteous order!!! OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!!!
-5 + 2 = +15 Budget balanced.
Mackevanomics coming to a comedy club near you!!!
Do you know how stupid you come across, by your stupid comment?
Pot…I would like to introduce you to Kettle….