Call to abolish pension age
(CNS): A member of the Cayman Islands Legislative Assembly is hoping to persuade the government benches that the current retirement age is too low and that Caymanians should no longer be forced to retire at the age of sixty. Ezzard Miller, the member for North Side, has filed a private members motion asking the UDP government to abolish the mandatory retirement age and let workers choose whether or not they want to work beyond a certain age. Miller told CNS that many of his constituents are facing compulsory retirement from their jobs in the private sector as well as the civil service but few have pensions big enough to support them.
Miller said that all of the laws and other barriers, such as problems with health insurance for the over sixties, should be removed to enable people to work if they want to or in many cases need to. Miller said he is happy for government to maintain a voluntary retirement of 55 years of age for those that can afford to leave their jobs but, given the life expectancy versus the poor pensions some people have, the idea of enforced retirement is simply untenable for many people.
“With a sixty percent over employment problem in Cayman, we don’t face the same arguments against allowing people to work beyond sixty as some other jurisdictions. People cannot say that pensioners would be stealing other people’s jobs,’ he added.
The increase in the quality of life and health care for many people in Cayman today means that reaching the age of sixty should no longer be a barrier to work. Miller said that forcing people to retire years and years before they are likely to die was not only a waste of skills but was condemning them to a life of poverty.
According to research in the US, modern female retirees have a 50% chance of living to age 88 and a one in four chance of living to 94.
As the law compelling employers to pay pensions is relatively new, many people who are now at retirement age have nowhere near enough money invested in their pensions to offer them a comfortable retirement. Miller said they could face years of financial struggle ahead of them if they are prevented from working.
He pointed out that government is circumventing the issue in some cases by re-contracting civil servants after retirement and over the age of sixty in order to retain skilled and experience staff, so it was time to abolish the retirement age.
The motion, which is supported by the PPM member for East End Arden McLean, was filed on Tuesday and Miller said he hopes it will reach the parliamentary order paper for the next meeting of the LA, which is due to start on 9 May.
A considerable body of medical research has also drawn a correlation to the onset of health problems, both mental and physical, with enforced retirement. Regular retirees can suffer a 16 percent increase in difficulties associated with mobility and a 9 percent decline in mental health, but this can be worse in those forced to retire when they don’t want to.
Category: Politics
the topic is retirement age, how did young people get into this. Lets stick to the topic, because that is an entirely different and lengthly topic. Increase the retirement age based on the individuals pension etc. This is not an easy subject but I do agree if you are able then work.
Anon 1406 I do believe that an individual should have the right to work to what ever age he wants to. However to leave young people out of the conversation is very short sighted. Cayman only has so many jobs and if the elderly people are holding those jobs where will the young people work. This is a question that must be addressed. There is already a significant unemployment problem in Cayman this solution makes that worse.
Again, another good motion fom Ezzard. One would expect this to be fully supported and unanimously passed by the LA. Apart from the reasons stated, it is obvious that an employed elderly workforce requires less support from the public coffers. Clearly, we know the concerns relating to local Pension Plans and insurance coverage, especially those of the public service. Any Government would do itself and the country a well by encouraging and allowing the continued employment of the elderly.
Good move Ezzard and good luck. Hopefully this will be one motion that is not evaluated and addressed by political posturing.
Wow, This is so great Ezzard! I mean what a way to create more crime by leaving the qualified elders in their current post whilst the younger generation who already has no chance today will just continue to rob us in the community. Really appreciate it. __________ there's your vote.
There is one particular issue which is being forgotten here, possibly because most readers are unaware of it.
The Approved Health Insurance providers have for some considerable time determined the age of retirement, resulting in retirees being 'dropped' when reaching this 'age' or as an alternative having their previous level of benefit reduced to the basic SHIC1 plan, without the person being aware of it.
May I suggest to the Editor that a Poll be undertaken to allow the ones who have experienced this discrimination, to record this discrimination by the Insurers. There are a considerable number affected.
Freedom 85!!!! Woo Hoo!!!!!
Screw the kids!!!!!
I agree with Mr. Miller's motion, being one myself recently given the shove-off primarily because of age, although this was denied by those who made the decision for my lay-off. I would like to ask Mr. Mario Ebanks, now the Head of the Labour & Employment Relations, whether consideration is being given at all to re-training programs (as necessary) for older people – those who are are not prohibited by bad health to work, those who are in their 50's and 60's, unemployed but still with financial responsibilities, those who have proven themselves to be stable, dependable workers throughout their years of employment, and those who still strongly desire and need to be employed? There are programs now for the younger ones coming out of school and those are laudable. Why not similar, suitable programs for the older ones?
Why do companies which are headed up by foreign managers take on primarily foreign workers – their friend and buddies who want a time "in the sun" – who cannot and do not know more about certain jobs than Caymanians – some are even trained by Caymanians – and they are given training in-house to make up for any shortfalls in knowledge or skills? Advertisements are obviously intended to cut Caymanians out of the bidding by the high qualifications which are attached to just ordinary, mundane responsibilities. How many degrees does it take to be a secretary or do similar corporate work? How many degrees does it take to be a filing clerk in a law firm, or work in retail business and provide customer service? Many people who did not have the opportunity in their younger years to earn a degree have still learned, from the bottom up, on-the-job, to do their jobs efficiently, but now are told they need a degree to continue after several decades of faithful performance!
It would be really, really a decent and right thing for those in management to not be so ready to displace a faithful, capable and loyal Caymanian employee only to replace their position with a foreign person who lacks half their experience and proven skills. And for the Labour and Employment office and the Immigration Board to more closely examine work permits applications and enquire to know why a Caymanian is not filling the position, or whether a Caymanian has been displaced from the position and the reason why. Whereis consideration for our Caymanians being given and by whom? I don't mean some discriminating "protectionist" anti-expat policies, but simply examining applications with due diligence and discretion, with favour to our own people where possible.
I fear sometimes for what I see our Islands coming to, for the day of reckoning will come! We seem to be "hanging by a thread" now more than ever before…our beautiful, friendly, previously stable, almost crime-free, Cayman Islands…the place where people came to and never wanted to leave. Now some of our own indigenous people are wanting to leave because of the harsh fight for survival! I'm so glad to know and experience that God holds my life and future in His hands and thankful that it is not left to inadequate, failing powers-that-be! He is my Provider, my Sustainer and my Defender, and I rest my case in Him!
Remind me which law makes it mandatory to retire at 60? Pension Law says you can start drawing at 60. Labour Law I believe is silent. The fact that many posts mention individuals working at present beyond 60 indicates to me there is no compulsory retirement age in Cayman. Carry on working if you wish or need to that is not a change
Then put pressure on the Immigration Department. The world is in a recession but oddly enough we still have over 1500 Caymanians unemployed and work permits keep getting approved. This is because the only source of secure income along with duty that the Government can depend on so others can waste it! I am sure if an elderly person is forced to retire is there a Caymanian to replace that position or do they just replace them with a foreigner.
I have no gripes with foreigners but what is the sense of depending on work permit fees to sustain our government when our own people have no work , resorting to crime or depending on the government and then the Government having to spend that money on expanding the Police force and eventually the prisons.
Then the tourist stop coming and the expats start leaving because crime is on the rise and then we are left with what? Yeah we get a job but no money or no experience and our infrastructure and tourism product just died.
I was in Immigration a couple of weeks ago while a young American lady who was in there with a friend very loudly made calls to people she knew to try and get interviews for her friend. This was completely inappropriate. Despite the fact that she seemed to be looking for low level administrative work for her friend she seemed fairly confident that her friend would have something and seemed to be getting good responses from those she was speaking to…
The key word in this post is, "…seemed".
Not sure where you got your facts of 1500 hundred Caymanians being unemployed. Not having a job does not automatically give you the status of being unemployed. You have to be actively seeking a job to be considered unemployed.
I am also confused at the statement "The world is in a recession but oddly enough we still have over 1500 Caymanians unemployed" if there is a recession, isn't that one of the results of a recession? Unemployment?
You make it sound so simple, like if the Immigration department stop approving work permits then suddenly all Caymanians would be somehow employed. Quite a leap in your logic considering that the majority of the work permit applications approved are for jobs that Caymanians are not qualified to do or simply refuse to do.
In one breath you say you have no gripe with foreigners yet the beginning of your post it seems like you are blaming them for Caymanians not having jobs.
There are several factors why Caymanians do not/cannot get jobs and foreigners are not even the top two reasons.
1. Qualifications
2. Attitude (usually entitled attitude)
Some of the same people complaining about not being able to get jobs are mostly the ones who have no qualifications and a poor attitude or qualifications and a poor attitude.
You have Caymanians who blatantly refuse to do something just because they know they can and will get away with it, while the foreigner is grateful for the opportunity to work in this country so they are hard working and willing to do whatever and because of that they are accused of "stealing" jobs from Caymanians. Give me a break.
When Caymanians are willing to get out there and get qualified and be able to compete on the world stage and are willing to humble themselves and not have this entitled attitude all the time then things will change, slowly we will not need to hire foreigners because we have a qualified Caymanian to do the job, one who is committed and hardworking.
Are there situations where a hard working, qualified Caymanian is overlooked for a foreigner? Absolutely! I am not denying that but these are few cases.
And in case you are wondering, I am Caymanian. The truth is a big hard pill to swallow and I don't care how many thumbs down I get for this post, if Caymanians were honest with themselves they would know I am not making this up.
It should be up to the individual when they want to retire. Why be forced to retire ! Why not force everyone that comes out of school in cayman that they must get work also? Once they are capable of performing the daily duties and good physical and mental shape let them work.
I dont believe that employees who are adding value should be pushed out to pasture just because they hit a certain age. However if they are ineffective the employer should be able to give them the boot. There should not be a forced retirement at a certain age so long as the employer also has a say on a case by case basis.
For the government employees the longer they work the better it is for everyone else because they will spend fewer years living off the plan before they die. The government plan is already pretty much insolvent so this would help out immensely.
Mr. Millers argument that the pension law has only been around for a short while so people have not had time to build up large funds is a pretty weak one. What where these same people going to do before the pensions law was put into effect? They should have been saving their money for when they could no longer work. If people were irresponsible and lived beyong their means during the years they were employed they only have themselves to blame.
The retirment age should go or be raised, not to protect those too foolish to save up their money but rather to allow those who are good workers to continue to do so if they wish.
Reality Check, you are absolutely right! I couldn't have said it better. What needs to be stopped is the double dipping, which doubles the drain on public funds.
We just refuse to admit that the reason we have so many unemployed school leavers is that 1) they want to start at the top – they don't think they have to earn promotions and pay rises, etc. Even if you have a college degree, you need to work yourself up the corporate latter. No one starts at the top.
2) a large number of them graduate from high school and can barely read and write – let alone hold an intelligent conversation. We have failed our children.
3) too many are too ready to call in sick at the slightest ache – trust me, get into that shower and get going. Because you have the sick days doesn't mean to HAVE to use them – this is taken into consideration when evaluation time comes around.
Let's face the facts. And young people, get yourselves prepared, take every opportunity to learn, take a look at your attitude and realize you have a responsibility to yourself – nobody owes you anything!!!
Hmmmmm……. Lots of truth in this post, too. For some inknown reason, many people think the government owes them a living.
Only well digging starts from the top. These young people in Cayman and some of the adults wants to start at the top.
They don't know what it means to start small then build up. Everyone wants a brand new car as they get their first job. Some wants Lexus other Benzes, BMW, Audis. They wants to drive a better car than the general Manager. Ask them if they want an apartment or a piece of land and the answer will be no. Some of them hate the foreigners –the low paid ones who come here and make sacrifices and have something for themselves.
I have known many of these people have to get loans to pay their gas bills and light and telephone bills.
Some enrole in courses to better their education so they can be more competitive in the job market and after a few weeks they drop out.
What do we want? Have they heard the success of the seafarers? The fishermen and turtlers on the Miskito Coast? The Moms who manned the homes while their husbands were at sea and twisted ropes and farmed and built a solid foundation for their families today? WE need to change our ways because the world around us is changing.
I can recall reading somewhere in the past that by 1990 at least with the advent of computers and technology we would all be living lives of leisure. Most of the tedious jobs would be done by machines, robots would take over,.and we could all relax. Now however, thanks to miracle of modern economics, we can all expect to work longer. For less.
This is so selfish. Now how will the younger generation move up the ladder if there will be no age limit for retirement?? The reason for this is becuse those who reaching that limit to retirement are runnuing out of time. All Selfishness!!! Some prunes juice please!!!
What would Bush do?
Take a trip!
I can bet most of you who are in agreement with this proposal are old money grubbing retirees. When you hit 65 retire and give younger, more capable minds a chance. Save and plan for retirement and then relax and enjoy what's left of your life.
Old grubbers.
My child let me teach you, in the last say 10 years that pension have came into effect in Cayman, you would have to have been making a huge salary. Now at 60, Im still young, with a mortage, child in college and living expenses. My scenario, if I can continue to work, I will not be a burden to you, govt, or anyone else, as I will still be supporting my self.
You young person should start at the begining and work your way up, so when an old grubber like my self is pushed out, you will be right behind me to take my job. No more work permits, my mortage paid off, my child graduated and YOU have moved up the ladder. Have a good day.
Perhaps you should rub shoulders more often with the 'old money grubbing retirees' and learn some respect!
Who says younger minds are more capable. From your statement, doesn't appear so.
A job is not a feeding trough where you go to feast before retirement. A real job should be providing value for money. Young capable minds are all about creating new and valuable jobs, not waiting for someone to die (or retire) so they can take their place at the feeding trough.
Hey betting person you missed the point. The issue is retiring people at the age of 60.
And why is Ezzard appearing to be the most sensible MLA? Everyone else is caught up in a party net, but he isn't! If he has a common sense idea that will benefit everyone, he pursues it and becomes vocal about it. He is even willing to break alliances in order to stand up to what he knows to be right. What if Ezzard, an Independent candidate, was never elected? Think for a moment about that… would you have seen strong opposition against the East End Sea Port? Would you have seen a move for a 1 man 1 voting system without Ezzard? And what about auditing… would you have heard anything about auditing our financial records? Would you have heard an opposition in the LA at all? What? PPM'rs and Alden make good opponents? You who like voting in parties, where did you see or hear PPM vehemently opposing UDP??? And don't say Arden Mclean, because he is Independent in his own right! Anything that effects East End, affects Arden. He seems (for now) not to be influenced by patisanship. I think Cayman will have an LA with common sense people if they refrain from voting in parties, and vote for individuals who they personally know to be of upright character. The electorate need to have their eyes blinded to personality, hearing muted to rallying talks and promises, and they need to vote for those who really has clean hands and pure hearts. Vote for those who will represent Cayman Islands, both the well-off, but more the struggling families and those at the bottom of the ladder, and not their own interest alone and interest overseas. Jesus said, "ye shall know them by their fruits." In other words, "fruit" entails what a plant has produced. If plant appears to be promising, but produces thorns and thickles, it was never what you initially expected. You are responsible for encouraging that plant to grow when you water it and support its growth. With our politicians – their actions and track record speaks louder than their words. How they relate as well with other people in the past. You know them by their "fruits." I hope to God that the electorate learns from their mistake in putting in party to run the LA house. They seem to be followers of a Premier and come with the motto, loyalty to party interest no matter if the house catches on fire and the country sinks. I hate loyalty! The only loyalty one should have, is being loyal to themselves and to their God; i.e., integrity
Libertarian, as another poster commented, your posts are very difficult to get read. Can you please write in paragraphs?…..a fan.
An example of the well educated graduates we have roaming our streets… Cannot even punctuate… Seriously, we are doomed at this rate…
I like your post, Libertarian. It shows that you are definitely a thinking person. Unfortunately for us, a democracy having political forces (parties) always are divided….. and the politicians' priorities are always in this order:
#1. Self
#2. Party
and
way
way
down the list……
The people
I would honestly agree if there wasn't a profound amount of bad decisions made at the top from those nearing retirement. Sounds more like a deferrement and increse of unfunded liability and a retainment of life-sucking incompetents at the top of organizations who need to be put out to pasture.
Plenty of those in present government not nearing retirement age making plenty profound bad decisions, huge liability and in your own words 'life-sucking incompetents'. Perhaps it is not the age that counts but the mentality.
Try earning trust by not plundering others future benefits through unearned favoritism, then we can all have a healthy outlook and mentality -doubt that will happen since transparency, disproportiante rewards and double-dipping is what this is really about.
Thank goodness someone has had the commonsense to put this forward. To all those complaining that it’s going to take jobs away from the young; forget it. This is the one country where that can’t happen. Not enough jobs? Simply stop hiring so many work permit holders. If it doesn’t go through, successive governments are going to find themselves with a big, big problem as more and more people turn to them for financial assistance.
have you ever realize that you are not giving a chance to the younger generation? how they can find a job if older people still in their jobs?
Have you ever realize that the reason why this place is a mess is because the older people have given too many chances to the younger ones? They have allowed more and more people on work permits and the island can not cope with the crimes, but yet there is talk about increasing the population and people are unemployed. Are we not asking for more crime?
find jobs? get rid of some work permit holders
My father is late 60’s and still works 5 or 6 days a week. He, like many ambitious people of his generation, HATES doing nothing. Several of his male cousins are either in their late 60 or their early 70’s and are still working full time and contributing to Caymanian charities. Thank God they are both self employed and are not being forced out the door due to their age.
My mother worked until she laid off in her early/mid 60’s due to the economic down turn. Granted she has some health issues but in my opinion she could be utilized in a part time position. Due to the economy and age no one isknocking down the door to hire her. She too hates doing nothing all day and has done some volunteer work but this does not pay the bills.
Just because you retire this does not mean that you no long use electricity, water, healthcare facilities or eat food. Nor does it mean that the bank pardons the remainder of your loan or that the strata man forget to send his monthly bill. She already depends on me for her upkeep. I say if someone can and is willing to work, let them do it. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
That is my 2 cents on the matter.
"Although I can understand'……… Many Caymanians would be happy to retire at 60 so that young Caymanians could take their jobs, but that is not happening, Many Cymanians planned to retire at age 60 but huricane Ivan in 2004 changed many good plans. Mr, Ezzard please see that this law is passed because poverty is slowly moving into this little place.We need people who understand where we are coming from and where we are going.
It's not right because the longer we keep somebody in any job the less opportunity we give to the others, specially those graduating now and cant find a job because old people are still holding on their jobs. Cayman think for a minute please, you are talking about our younger generation coming out of high schools and college. What's wrong with us?
22:31, for petes sake, hushup. The Old people holding jobs in Cayman are foreigners. Where are yur eyes. Go get glasses and check the schools and govermentt departments.
You will not find them in the Private sector because they have made more money than they can spend. So please check it out befor you speak.
You say it's "not right"? How will you feel when you are sixty? Or sixty-five? I could have worked until I was sixty-five but I hung it up at sixty because I felt like I'd "had enough". Choice is a good thing.
Extending retirement age would considerably reduce the deficit in the defined benefit pension scheme as well.
That reminds me. Need to find a way to get my money out of that hot mess. And quick!
other countries are movingfrom 65 to 67.
It is time Cayman caught up.
This is a no brainer. Based on performance and health as primary determinants, skilled personnel should be retained as long as they are capbable and able to work.
Agree 100%. If we are going to talk about human rights in any sort of context, to force a person because of age to leave off working when they are still vital, can perform their job and want to continue working it should not matter if they are 65, 75 or 95! Let them work and continue to live a full contributing life, otherwise it is blatant discrimination based on age and that strikes me as a violation of my human rights!
Although I can understand the problems people face having to retire at age 60 but what about the young people just coming out of school ? If people can stay in their job indefinitely unemployment rates will never drop. I am just 4 years shy of retirement age and it will be difficult for me but it is not fair to the younger generation. People need to retire in order for jobs to open up.
This is one proposal I would not agree with ever.
While there are some very impressive young people out there, there are still SOME of them could stop having babies in their teens and wait until they are mature enough to raise them properly and can financially afford to take care of them. Perhaps they would have the time and energy to work part time and continue their education. That way we might have a more civilized society again which has respect for its elders as opposed to a society of Social Service wantabees getting younger and younger each year.
Maybe you should be more proactive in the effort to reduce work permits thereby providing jobs for these younger people. Caymanians come first.
Mr. Miller, for once I agree with you. I have personally spoken to the UDP members about this very same thing and nobody has done anything about.
Caymanians face so many challenges in the work place and any excuse to get rid of them is applied including retiring at age 60.
What a waste of good Caymanian talent. I hope the UDP supports this, because next year my votes goes to the person or persons who have the political will to make this happen.
Fair enough, I understand the arguments. But given that Government is the main, major employer of Caymanians, including those who can't get jobs in the private sector, allowing people to work on and on (an 80+ year old was employed in one dept until recently) will indeed "block up" positions and deny younger people the chance to get employment. Careful consideration of all the ramifications of this proposal is needed.
I know of a women her late 60ies or early 70ies that is supporting her great grandchild because the grandchild child can't hold a job.
I also know another woman in her 80ies who was working and she helped to support another family member’s child. It was not even her own grandchild as the elderly lady never had any children of her own.
#1) Let people who want to work do so.
#2) Just think of the alternative for these two young children mentioned above if they were not getting financial help from a senior citizen. While I think the actions of the parents of both these young children are deplorable, thank god someone is willing to care for them and not expect Social Services to foot the bill.
Good point
Don't believe that is the case at all. A younger person will need training and gain experience. May also teach them how to respect! If they WORK and WANT TO progress then they will. If a person has already been working up to sixty so far then it is obvious there is no 'younger' person willing or capable of doing the job. People of wonderful ages do not detract from the workplace, quite the opposite. People of wonderful ages also gain from being in the workplace and not sitting at home alone all day or in a home. Much healthier.
This one is really a no brainer, but I have to wonder if it will be defeated simply because it is the opposition.
This is something that the Government has been talking about for sometime, let's hope they get it done now. I don't know why anyone would think, this has anything to do with any opposition.
Then why is it the opposition bringing it to the table? 'Thinking' about it and 'doing' about it are not the same!
I do hope the PPM and UDP all vote yes on this because there are so many Caymanians 60 and over who is of very good strength and mind, and can work. Instead of Government having to pay these people 75.00 dollars a month pension and giving them food vouchers and paying light and water bills for them GIVE THEM BACK THEIR JOBS. Let them work a little longer until they feel they want to stay home.
Do you know that in the civil service, in the schools, in the Private sector there are people over 60 years old working, but guess what none of them are Caymanians. They are all Foreign people. So if government can hire foreign staff over 60, then why cannot Caymanians work. It beats me.
Many Caymanians are very strong up to 70 years old. The Lady of the House must be about eighty now, and she is in good senses, who cannot see that. It will also alow your grandparents and parents to spend strong quality time with their grand kids, But if you throw them at home from now, what do you think will happen. Please pass the motion for Mr Miller and please get on with work to keep Cayman afloat.
The reason Government – a CAYMANIAN government – hires foreign staff after they are 60 is because these workers are willing to WORK and can do the work they are paid to do at a high standard. I am sure any Caymanian with similar qualities would also be employed, IF they were willing AND able. As for the Lady of the House, she is 72 and not everyone would agree with you that she is on top of her job. But McKeeva Bush appointed her and that's all that matters.
06:12 Expatriate, remember you had a good reason for wanting to live Cayman and get Cayman Status. So tell me what is the problem why all the expatriate foreigners on workpermit, Rollover and resident holders, want to take awaythe Island from the Island people?
Leave them alone. You probably live on the beach,and you do not want them to go in the sea, what is the matter with you people anyway. Have you ever considered that if really hard times come upon the Caymanians they will target the foreign people. If was you and them I waould try to get along. You are getting the best advice..
The retirement age should be 65 in both sectors.
I disagree there should be NO mandatory retirement age as long as the person can continue to fulfill their job duties without impact on the employer or themselves.
Yes! This should be done! Give people a choice and chance to continue working if they are capable and want to they should be allowed to do so.
Hmmmm…..guaranteed this will get passed before Friday next week and will backfire without a shadow of a doubt.
How about a term limit on local politicians? They can pick bananas after 8 years for all I care. Just get these guys off the double dip gravy train that my kids (and their kids) will have to pay for!
Well put together. Some of them are already calculating that after this Election that they will have enough income and they wont have to work anymore. I agree with Ezzard as usual. The older performs much better than most of the young. If they can continue to work longer at least our welfare wont have to hand out vouchers etc. Once a clean bill of health is given by a Doctor there is by all means better to keep them on their jobs rather than give it to some refugee.
If persons reaching mandatory retirement age would just vote UDP, they would be allowed to keep their jobs. At least that's how it is working in government these days. Right O.C.?
Thats how it works in the Brac.