2nd class Caymanians
I recently heard a local politician on the radio saying that one of the problems with the current Cayman Islands constitution is that it didn't require someone interested in running in the general elections to have both parents born in Cayman. After some research it turns out that the way the constitution is currently written a person who was not born in the Cayman Islands, even with Caymanian Status and naturalised, must have at least one parent or grandparent born in this country to qualify to be a candidate in the general elections.
This seemingly innocent provision, tucked away in section 62 of the constitution, is not right. Some quick research proved it was hard to find countries with such an offensive provision. The United States, United Kingdom and Canada all allow citizens to run for elected office (the only difference in the case of the US is that the president must be born in America).
Closer to home and more comparable, Jamaica, the Bahamas, Bermuda and Turks and Caicos all allow citizens or those with the equivalent of "status" to run for elected office with only a requirement that they be resident from 3 months to 12 months before the general election.
The Cayman Islands approach is unusually aggressive in denying citizens the right to participate as elected officials. It does not allow citizen to qualify with a minimum residence period, as is the case in most countries. It goes a step further: you can be a citizen and resident for decades and still never qualify because if neither of your parents or grandparents were born here, you are not a "qualified citizen" according to our constitution.
It is understandable that non Caymanians do not have the privilege to vote or run for elected office and there may be a case to also limit the participation of Cayman status holders as political candidates to those that have lived in the country for a lengthy period, for example 15 or 20 years (although I can see why many might even disagree with that last condition since it is so out of sych with the rest of the world). Most of those who have been Caymanian for that long are likely already naturalised and hold Cayman passports.
But our approach creates two different classes of Caymanians. In this country, for example, you will be Caymanian enough to be naturalized, get a Cayman passport and give your valuable vote to others who run for office, but you are not Caymanian enough to serve as a member of the Legislative Assembly.
What we have done in this area sounds suspiciously like the work of politicians who want nothing but to protect their turf.
This rule also limits the pool of persons that Caymanians can vote for. In the currentsituation the community would benefit from having the choice of a few additional Caymanians who have lived here for a long time and who could contribute to the country as elected officials.
It is likely that there could be anywhere from hundreds to thousands of voters on the list in this position and they will be forgiven for feeling now that they should not even bother voting if their country categorizes them as a lesser form of 'Caymanian'. This may suit the hard liners in Cayman, but it is a recipe for disharmony, and as time goes on and the crop of politicians willing to run for office dwindles, this will only get worse.
Running for office is one of the legitimate ways that people participate in a democracy and limiting this involvement in such a small community cannot be a good thing.
Ironically, the politician I heard was suggesting that the situation needed to be changed so that both parents had to be born here, in other words make the test to qualify to run for office even harder than it already is.
But instead we should make the change so that as long as you are Caymanian and have lived here for a specified number of years (for example 10 or 15 years), you have the right to run for office. We should change this provision to that effect whenever we make minor amendments to the constitution because it is outrageously offensive, bad for democracy and seriously out of sych with the reasonable rights of citizens in most democratic countries.
I guess we were all so busy focusing on issues during the constitutional debates, like whether we would have 18 MLAs and create a new exciting position called 'Premier' among other things that we missed this injustice. It would be interesting to hear what both classes of "Caymanians" think about the current situation.
Category: Viewpoint
Everyone who isn't from here and who came here no matter how long they have been here acts like they gave up something better to be here and that just isn't true. We have laws to protect Caymanians just like every other country on earth protects their own people. Maybe we should pass a law that for someone to get status they must first give up any other citizenship that they have. Then we'll see who really want's to be Caymanian or who are just here because they have a better life than they had in their home country. If the money stops flowing all of you who weren't born here will be leaving for the simple fact that you have your own country and you are only here because you have better opportunities here. Also, it dosen't matter if your kids were born here because you'll be taking them with you since they also have citizenship in your countryof birth that you got for them just in case. I really wonder what you are telling them at home about their place in the world? For us Caymanians, this little spot is all we have and in saying that it really belongs to the Queen of England so there you go, we have nothing really unless the Queen continues to like us.
to Wed, 08/22/2012 – 16:16 you live in scranton, because that is where you want to be. You think you are the only one from Scranton,? You work a construction job and get paid ci$1200.00 per month because that is what you choose to do. Are you a qualified skills person?.I guess you should be working in the Law Firm too bacause you are Caymanain? Those law firm people paid alot of money to be educated to get those kind of Jobs, they were not entitled to anything, We live in Snug harbour becase it is a nice place to raise a family. unless the kids from Scranton come around with the hoods and check out the place. We came and you lived in Scranton, seem even if we packed up the kids and moved on you will still be living in Scranton. I come from George Town and I have my British passport, to say that never until this days have I ever thaught of moving on from Cayman, When the police want to clean up the area or the residence ask for assistance to control all the starnge things in Scranton, its the same Caymanian Scranton residense that opose to such clean up. The good ones move out and you talk about them, that they forgot where they come from. Lot of cayman good business Men and women come from scranton, but they hold there head up high and some even move to Snug Harbour. I think I heard about one living in Ritz condos and even Camana Bay. So Dont compare yourself to where you live and work. We are all who we make of our selves. And speaking of voting. Better watch out when you looking for a wife, soon it will be that you cannot marry other nationality , will be told that you need to marry a Caymanian, since all the Expats will be blame for taking all the Good Women or Men of the country. So in the end' it still comes down to "who yu fa". The current politicians is what make the Expat refer to the Natives as Ignorant. They act like a banana replubic, does not matter what the rule of Law. the law does not apply to them. they can outright dis-regard the law at will.
Poster 16:28
The law does not apply to them,Them who?.
Just listen to the tone of most of the posts by expats on this topic and you will see the roots of the anti expat sentiment.Caymanians are described as being inbred ,uneducated,lazy and a lot of other negative.names. We are also told that we have no one capable of leading our Government ,but that there are a large number of expats that are capable.How do you think this will make us feel? Do you think that it should cause us to reach out and embrace you? How would you feel if you invited me into your home in your home country and then I call you illiterate ,lazy and that the mother of your children is your relative.I bet you would throw me out without hesitation,and you would be justified in doing so.Yet Caymanians are expected to smile and welcome you with open arms after you insult us.Now let's get this straight,this is not directed to the many expats who genuinely care about Cayman and Caymanians. These people treat you with respect and not in a condescending manner.They see you at the airport on their return from vacation in their home country (usually the UK) and express their joy in being home again in Cayman. Mr Tim Ridley is one such individual ,and I would have no problem voting for him ,should he run for office.I am speaking to those expats who do not really care about Caymanians ,but rather have a deep dislike for Caymanians and seem to believe that they are superior somehow more entitled to be in charge than the "natives". There are also many Caymanians with a deep resentment of expats and this has to be addressed.If we cannot rectify our differences then in the end it will only ruin these islands for all of us .Of course the ones that will suffer most will be Caymanians and the expats who call this their home. Lenard Whittaker
Poster 15:12
Thank you for your post, i have been saying this for a long time, we have lost respect and trust for most expats at this point in our history because of the insults and the discrimination that has creptinto our Country.
We are sorry for the good expats that has been so good to us over the years, but there are some that should not be here, i now know why there are some places in this world that do not like expats especially Americans because of the behavior of a few,in fact i did not know the word expat untill the last 20 or so years,these people used to come to our homes and was our friends especially the English, but there was some mostly Americans and Canadians who came lately that think we cannot exist without them and that we should be so thankful for saveing us from what i don,t know.
I say to you CNS i know you avoid this subject because you are more political leaning but you are journalists first to yourselves and to the community that you serve, we are on a dangerous path that no one will be the winner, let us be truthfull and not lie when we talk about what is expected of anyone that go to other peoples Countries to work, this is not a free for all, let them know you cannot insult someone in there home then expect them to love you.
We know that we cannot go to America or anywhere else and do as we please, there are rules and laws and i cannot change them i obay them i don,t get disrespectful and insult them because they wont change them for me, come out of this fantasy please be truthful.
I am still trying to work out why where my parents or grandparents were born is relevant as to whether I would be a good servant for my district and my country. What a ridiculous criteria and, fellow Caymanians, is insulting our intelligence. It suggests that we don't have the ability to ask a candidate's heritage in the run-up to an election……as if that actually matters anyway. As inidividuals we can neither accept responsibility nor claim credit for what our ancestors did/didn't do. Oh, Cayman, who dreams up this garbage?
Not today Bo Bo, yoou ain't running for office in my country!
first you take our jobs, now you want to run for office?
those people writing all this stuff predicted and come to pass. Its true what they say expats will demand to run for office based on 'NO QUALIFICATIONS"
McKeeva are you crazy enough to listen to them. They have kicked you around enough, arn't oyu fed up and think its time to send them all back where they came from? We do not need their work permit fees. We had jobs before they came here. McKeeva if you do not put these expats in their place, do the job and make life easier for us.WE WILL ELECT EZZARD MILLER TO DO SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cc:MCKEEVA BUSH – please read you got a lot of work to do before May 2013 or its over!
WOW! Thanks so much for proving the former posters point. How can you be that dumb and still be able to type? Wait! Somone did it for you and this is the 'honorable" Qualified Premeir right?
You ignorant fool, the expats didn't take your jobs, they created all of them. If it wasn't for the expats, cayman would be a third world country like it was 50 years ago. The expats create jobs for the youth and provide opportunities. Most caymanian a simply aren't qualified to be lawyers or accountants because they didn't get the right education, so you can't blame expats for not wanting to hire people who can't do the job. And I was born on this island even though my parents are expats and I consider this my home just like anyone else who is from here, so for you to say that I don't have the basic right to participate in a democracy because I don't have a fucking grandparent or parent who was born here is completely narrow minded, oppressive and stupid. P.S. You are probably some useless caymanian who loves to criticise expats, even though you have probably never created any jobs or wealth on this island.
Just when you think you cannot be shocked any further by crass ignorance on a monumental scale, someone pops up and blows the tool meter to bits. I say go for it, go your own way and I may see you from the guarded all inclusive resort if I can see over the wall.
13:54 the same one that thought up the garbage in the country that you come from, we know the laws of other countries regarding running for office.
It is very sad that some of the smartest people in Cayman are not able to run for office, protectionism at its best!!
The present system has produced a fine crop of poltiical leaders and the already wide elector base means that there is no prospect of polticians pandering to a small group who have the vote. Can anyone point to any poor adminstration, bad governance, corruption or constitutional crisis which has arisen under the present system?
I'm a born Caymanian…of many generations.
Those concerned with the "Modernised 2009 Constitution" (including many voters) were mostly concerned about Human Rights providing for "Gay Rights" and enshrining "Christian Nation"!
I made it known then (2008-2009) to many Politicians and others (inluding some Pastors) that the 2009 Constitution seems far from "modern" or "christian" to me. That as a "First World Locale" dependant on Tourism and Financial Services Industry, we needed to educate our people and endorse a "Modern Constitution" much more in line with the European Convention on Human Rights.
So i agree here with 101 and many others, that persons who have attained Cayman Status and lived here for 10+ years should be allowed to run for Elected Office. This would bring a wealth of International Experience to the LA. And move Cayman forward on the World Stage.
Just look at what we have now in Office…and also the calibre of CHOICE at election time.
If you are allowed to vote, then you should be allowed to run for election – it's only common sense and reasonable. We shouldn't let an accident of birth prevent anyone from reaching their full potential. Nobody can influence where they are going to be born in the world, but once you are out there, and have found a place you want to call home, you should be able to play a full role in the governance of it, if you feel that is your calling.
Oh no you won't run for office in m country!
No one can be president of the UNITED STATES UNLESS HE OR SHE WAS BORN THERE!
No expats will be allowed to run for office in Cayman, we will see to that. You are touting your racism and nationalist prejudices enough, shall we also fall victim in your hands for us to be consumed by the Apartheid ieology and philosophy you have brought here with you as well?
You do realize that anyone born in United States can run for office means that I could go to the US have a child, live in the Cayman Islands with said child and then that child could run for office? That means the child knows nothing about the US opposed to someone that has lived here for 30 years. Who would you rather run for office? The person who never lived here or the person who has been here for 30 years?
Peter I share your thoughts with regard to eligibility of Caymanians to stand for election. Moreover like you I wish to serve our islands as I best I can but when you are dismissed from a Statutory Board after sixteen years to make sure the Premier’s henchmen are taken care of it makes you wonder. Not being given notice of dismissal and only finding out by reading the Gazette reflects badly on the Honourable. This methodology I gather is not unusual as others have been subject to the same treatment. But as Mark Anthony said of Julius Caesar but ‘ he is an Honourable man’. Certainly gives a new meaning of Honourable!
Anthony is referring to Brutus – who had tried to justify his murder of Caesar – rather than Caesar (which by your analogy wiuld make you Caesar!). Sentiment spot on though.
Not to worry. Real Caymanians are an indangered species. What they do to live is not sustainable. Just wait them out.
I would like to make a comment on this topic.I have lived here in the Cayman Islands for 2/3rds of my life (over 47 years)and love and have given my all to helping keep Cayman in the forefront of the Caribbean especially on things that are closest to my heart the natural environment.I have long wanted to run for election to make a difference in even a small way to the future of these islands and even more so now when I see the destruction that is taking place in ALL aspects of life by just a handfull of greedy politicians that in most cases do not have the interest of Cayman at heart.So why someone like myself is not being allowed to run for election is almost like a slap in the face but even so I am still willing to help in whatever way I can to help to make Cayman a better place for all future generations to live.One last point.If I am allowed to vote legally why then cannot I run for election as to be able to vote is after all my democratic right so why not the the other?
Because of the intitlement protectionism that is Cayman culture.
The funny thing is the demands of this article reflect an expat entitlement mentality.
So you think people who hold status, are entitled to vote and reside here for the rest of their lives, and have already been here for years making a contribution to society are expats? Says something about your mentality.
You find it funny, I find it disturbing. These people think with their emotions.
Seriously we need fresh blood!
The same ole ways have to go!
Time to step into the twenty first century!
Nothing says it better than, “I am the best qualified political leader, because my Grandfather impregnated my Grandmother here”.
It is all in the genes people!
Or more accurately "Someone inpregnated my grandmother somewhere and she gave birth here".
Does anyone know if there are really an extra 10,000 people that could be added to the list of voters?
I vote for cayman united. At least they ate trying to do something
I'm a Cayman City fan myself, hate United fans
….while others "ate"…n "ate".. doing nothing….:)
As a good Caymanian friend of mine told me "Native Caymanians would rather this island sink into oblivion, then for it to succeed to the benefit of all at from the leadership of a non-native caymanian".
Just goes to show how deep rooted and illogical this attitude is.
I think that is nonsense. Most Caymanians are concerned that non-native Caymanians would run these Islands for the benefit of their compatriots from their countries of origin and contrary to the interests of native Caymanians. That is a very reasonable and logical concern given the existing attitudes against native Caymanians.
This archaic law stem from a fear of foreigners (invaders) coming to a country and usurping power. In modern times I agree that it is not needed.
My child is no less Caymanian because my medical issues required her to be born at MD Anderson. And it is just plain silly that she should suffer because of it.
Cayman operates in a global economy. People who have only ever lived in the Cayman bubble cannot have any hope of understanding let alone leading a country which depends on foreign investment into these trying times. The old must go and the new must come in. If Cayman is to survive and flourish new people and new ideas are required!
It looks like Cayman (at least the Caymanian version of it) will not survive.
The irony of what you say is that Mckeeva has a better understanding of our economic model and the ongoing need for foreign investment than all the rest put together.
Sad but true.
The last 3 years and in particular the expat tax fiasco have demonstrated that McKeeva has no understanding of anything.
I am a first generation Caymanian, overseas educated, successful, ambitious and would love to represent my district and country and help clean up this mess starting with the root of the problem…unfortunately the same old dinosaur old boys club will continue to run our country into the whole…nepotism is alive and well in the Cayman Islands. Look at our ‘Leaders’, seriously look at them, it’s the goof troop! Cayman is so well positioned because of those who came before us and now these jokers are flogging the same old dolphin and we are going to let it all slip through our fingers because we could not get our acts together !
CAYMAN NEEDS CHANGE!!!
There are a few other points that need to be considered if we really want to have a full, fair and honest discussion of the issue 101 raised about qualifications for elected persons.
1). The demographics in the Cayman Islands is very different than almost all other countries, in regard to the relatively huge percentage of persons living here now who had no connection to this country prior to their arrival here as immigrants just a few years ago, or in many cases even less than a year ago. That statement is not intended to be pejorative or offensive: just a statement of fact. Therefore it should not be a surprise that some of the societal and governance arrangements here are somewhat different than would typically be encountered elsewhere.
2). The history of treatment of the “first peoples” of North America gives stark reminders of what can happen when relatively large numbers of new immigrants take control of territory previously under the control of the “first peoples” of that territory. It would be mistaken to assume that it is Caymanian politicians alone who would have misgivings about opening up the right to hold elected office to "newcomers."
3). Caymanian Status does not mean the same thing as what “Citizenship” is understood to mean in other countries. To obtain something close to equality in “Caymanian Citizenship” would require at least having Caymanian Status AND being a “British Overseas Territories Citizen (BOTC) – Cayman Islands” possessing a Cayman Islands passport.
4). We do not have direct elections to the office of Premier so anyone elected could constitutionally possibly become the Premier. If it is OK for the USA to require its President to have been born in the country, why is it so wrong for the Cayman Islands to require its Premier (and other elected persons) to either be born in the Cayman Islands or to have close family ties to at least one Cayman-born ancestor within the last generation or two?
5). Justbecause there are many American Citizens born outside the USA who cannot run for the office of President, doesn't mean they shouldn't participate wholeheartedly in the election of the President.
Perhaps some or all of these factors influenced the thinking that resulted in the qualifications for elected office that have been included in the Constitution. And maybe that aspect of the Constitution isn’t so unreasonable after all.
in response
1) what is the relvance of this to the arguement? noone is saying those on WP's should be able to run for office, we are talking about 20-30 year residents or their children who were born, educated and raised in Cayman
2) All Caymanians are from immigrants that have settled on thei isalnd in the last 300- 350 years. The "first people" in the Americas had been their thousnads of years and probably hundred's of generations and were murdered for their land, so incomparable to Cayman.
4) The US president only has to be born in the US, children born in Cayman and lived their whole lives here cannot run. as as for anyone being elected to become Premier, it would not be hard to add a provision that a party can name one of their fellows the leader.
5) again relevance? they can still be voted in to office justnot the top office, so they can still be very involved in assisting the country
The path to status (that is, the 'legal' way) is that you have to obtain this…'“British Overseas Territories Citizen (BOTC) – Cayman Islands” possessing a Cayman Islands passport.' BEFORE being granted status.
So now, tell me what is the difference between this 'citizenship' and anyother 'citizenship'?
The difference is that many status holders did not obtain status in that way.
Can the Jordanian run?
Depends what you chase him with!
I am a 5th generation Caymanian and I am totally against what you are suggesting or what you would like to see changed regarding who can run for political office in the Cayman Islands.
Personally, I would like to see one little word in the Constitution or in the Elections Law amended to read "….. having a parent AND grandparent born in the Cayman Islands" instead of …"having a parent OR grandparent born in the Cayman Islands". That one little word AND would make such a huge difference. We have enough indigenous Caymanians residing on island, let alone all the other Caymanians we have living overseas whose children and grandchildren are returning to the islands that we will be able to have Caymanians running for office for the rest of our lives and beyond!
I am not a politician but I believe that persons who have received Caymanian Status by way of length of residence or through the Cayman Status grants fiasco in 2003 should be satisified and feel honoured that they are able to vote in another country other than their land of birth and stop being so greedy because in my humble opinion that is what it is. It is also my opinion that anyone who is not qualified to stand for election but keep insisting, it is because of what they will be able to get once elected, and not what they can do for the country.
Your views are racial and unacceptable in these islands. You need get a life.
Caymanians don't consitute a race.
And they don't really constitute a nationality either. "Caymanian" is more a late 1960's construct to enforce discriminatory laws primarily agaist Jamaicans.
What ignorance. Caymanians have always been distinct fom Jamaicans. It has nothing to do with the 1960s. Typical expat pontificating on matters they know nothing about.
I agree with you fully 08/22/2012 – 17:04! Well said.
17:04, if I were you I would not boast too loudly about being a fifth generation Caymanian (whatever that means). If you dont have some foreign blood in there over the generations, you are in danger of lacking genetic hybrid vigor, sometimes leading to inbreeding. But, you are probably ok, because like most Caymanians , you probably have Jamaican or other blood in your genetic make-up to prevent the inbreeding although in this day and age to say you have foreign blood seems to be a thing to be ashamed of. Are ALL your antecedents going back the five generations you talk of "born Caymanians" or is there some foreign 'fiasco" in there?
I think we all know what a fifth generation Caymanian means but for your benefit it means that you have 4 generations of Caymanian ancestry. It does not exclude having any other ancestry. One is naturally proud of having deep roots whatever one’s country. I am not sure what “Jamaican blood” means since “jamaican” is a nationality not a race.
I am 8th generation Caymanian myself. No inbreeding involved.
And if you had lived 60+ years ago you would have opposed women being given the vote, and if you had lived 150 years ago you would have opposed blacks being allowed to vote.
Cayman is currently in the dire straits it is in because the calibre of the vast majority of persons being elected just do not have the ability to govern what is essentially a business with a half billion dollar annual turnover. They are not bad people but we all have our strengths and limitations and regrettably most have long reached the latter.
There are a number of persons in Cayman who have lived and worked here most, if not all, of their careers and definitely are capable of properly running Cayman Ltd. They are prevented from doing so by persons like yourself who, for whatever reason, are afraid to allow persons perceived as outsiders to become insiders. The reality is that under the provisions of most countries they became insiders long ago. I wonder how much longer after November 2012 and the introduction of the HR provisions they will continue to be shut out here? My guess is not too long.
In addition, it now appears that there may be up to 10,000 persons who have been disenfranchised improperly after the introduction of the 2009 Constitution that removed the requirement of naturalisation for voters. Do you remember the CI Govt. National Education & Information Campaign informing persons of their new right to register as a voter? No, neither do I. I also suspect that their voting preferences will bring a new dimension to our elections.
Cayman has not been a village for many years but unfortunately the village mentality still lingers in way too many of the villagers.
60+ years ago… It would have been a pleasure for me to see you tell this kind of BS to the late Messers Bertie Panton, OM Panton and to a lesser extent JM Bodden. You said a mouth full when you said Cayman has been a villiage for many years, but oh how I wish the village mentality had really stayed because we would have still owned this country from sea to shining sea and people of your attitude and persuasions would still be at the gate begging us to come in. All Caymanians were warned about this over sixty years ago but we would not listen.
History is indeed repeating its self just that most Caymanians are not even aware of what is happening. It would be interesting to do some research about about the Xhosa.
I earn 1,200 per month they earn 12,000. I work on a construction site. they work in a law firm. i live in scranton. they live in snug harbor or south sound. so tell me now. who is the 2nd class caymanian?
I wil give them the right to vote when they give me equal opprtunities.
Funny you live in Scranton Pennsylvania… this is what's going on there (from Wikipedia):
"According to The Guardian, the city was close to bankruptcy in July 2012, with the wages of all municipal officials, including the mayor and fire chief, being cut to $7.25/hour. Financial consultant Gary Lewis, who lives in Scranton, was quoted as estimating that "…on 5 July the city had just $5,000 cash in hand.""
That's about $500,005,000.00 more money than Cayman has, and about $7.20 an hour more than our officials are worth!
Um, he means Scranton in GT, not Pennsylvania!
FYI, Scranton is an area in central George Town that you will likely not find on the official maps.
The writer is referring to Scranton, a community just east of central George Town.
When your teacher told you that education is important, you ought to have listened better. Look at your atrocious post – for example, why is there a period after "so tell me now"? Or, how many times must you be told that a new sentence ALWAYS starts with a capital letter? You will get equal opportunities when you learn how to spell the word.
So could you leave your construction site and do the legal work they do, 16:16?
Absolutely no offence to you sir. Believe me, one Caymanian to another, I have our best interest in my heart. Tell me though, this man who lives in snug harbour and works at a law firm who refuses to give you an equal opportunity – has he seen your law degree and various other credentials ?
You already have equal oppertunities. What you are lacking is an equal education and work ethic. Too bad your just not smart enough to see that. But at least your not alone.
It is not polite to criticise others for their perceived lack of education or work ethic simply because of their employment.
Do not be offended but please check the number of spelling and grammatical errors in your own comments.
You're. Geez. You don't make a very good case for your better education…
Typical. There are so many expats on here who assume they have a superior education to any Caymanian simply because they are expat only to be proven wrong by their own spelling and grammatical errors.
If you are unhappy in your current employment, I would suggest branching out to find other options or further education that could assist you in making the transition to something different. Many Caymanians have done this and have homes in snug harbour and jobs in law firms and fancy cars… if that's your thing, there isn't a single thing stopping you from getting it other than yourself.
As a Caymanian, if you had the same qualifications these lawyers you refer to have, then you could be in the same position they are if you applied yourself. Especially considering the laws of this country require employers to put qualified Caymanians in these positions.
Otherwise, I strongly suggest you re-read the editorial post and try to consider the points with a rational mind rather than being bigotted.
Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is inyour own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
I think you have a log in your eye. These people who you seem to despise so much have merely studied hard at school and college/university and learnt their trade as lawyers, just as you learnt your trade in construction. Don't grudge them because they have better qualifications or opportunities than yourself. There is nothing to stop you from succeeding in the same way, except yourself. And that applies just as much to every human being on this earth as it does to you.
You see your post would be credible and make sense if you was a qualified and skilled lawyer who could not get a job in a law firm, and instead had to get work in construction. But it seems to me, and perhaps most of us, that you don't so in this context, your post makes no sense.
I would love to have McKeeva's job and all the spoils that come with it, and I AM more qualified than he is, but that doesn't make me bitter about it.
Oh yes you can!!:)
Member of family was an immigrant to another country, worked on contruction sites, made himself a millionaire in his early 40's through hard work.
His son is nowa barrister!
Never felt sorry for himself nor compared himself to others.
As the calypso song says “no no we aint going home” (that’s only for u over forty years old)
People what done is done. Once foreignors are given citizenship there should be a no differnce
Wrong.
Go read it again as it is a little tricky. First it is section 61 and not 62. The Qualified Citizen who is not born in the CI must have relinquished any othercitizenship that he or she may have been qualified to hold.
So a person who was not born in the Cayman Islands must be able to check off section 61(1) a, b, c, d and f as well as 61(2) a.
61 (2) (a) looks like it is only for people born in cayman. Otherwise there would be no need for both
61 (2)(a) AND 61 2b to be there as alternatives?
61(2) b applies to persons who fall under 61(1) e
You are reading into 61(2)(a) something that is simply not there. One maybe a Qualified Citizen by satisfying either (a) or (b).
This article is just the tip of the iceberg. There are thousands of people who are disenfrenchaised in this country. just wait until the human rights stuff comes into place and we will see how much injustice there is.
Elections won't be the same 12 years from now.
is someone like tim ridley part of these types of people who were not born here? people like him could run for office if thats what the article is saying. i dont mind that we need input from all sides.
good catch author and CNS!
this looks like over protection of jobs by the current politicians in Cayman. although I dont really care about the countries that are independent so dont use them as examples. but if bermuda and turks which are also UK territories do things like the article says then i am ok to go with that. BUT i beleive cayman must make its own rules so it would have be many many more years in the country first. NOT 1 ot 2 years like those countries. and we the "real caymanians" should make the rules about how many years it should be not anyone else. if we are sons of the soil that means soemthing and there is no shame about saying that.
Please define "real Caymanian"
Kent, up until you wrote that inane question I had good hopes for you as a politician. If you don’t know what a real Caymanian is please quit while you are ahead.
the facebook group says we will have about 10,000 more voters but thats too much. it may be another 4 thousand though. so we will have more cayman status people that can vote which i feel is a good thing. it will break up some of the politicians style a bit for sure because some fo these new people they wont know as well so cant control as well as the othere ones. i dont beleive people who just got here should be elected. they need to get to know our country and people first. no matter what anyone says they cannot do this if they were not in this country for at least 10 or 20 years or maybe 30 years!
we cant go to another country and do what we want so they need to understand where we stand also.
The premise of your article is incorrect and therefore the comments that follow are invalid.
A person who has been naturalized, possesses Caymanian status and has renounced any other citizenship which he possessed (other than British Citizenship) may run for office regardless of where his grandparents were born. You have referred to the wrong section of the Constitution for starters. The qualifications required to run for office are set out in Section 61 (not section 62) of the Constitution. Please note that section 61(1)(e) and (f) are in the alternative, as are section 61(2)(a) and (b).
Before getting on your soap box I suggest you read and digest the Constitution thoroughly.
You sound like you know something so i just tried to read it and it was flipping confusing. but in the end the article still sounds like its on to something.
It looks like you have to be a qualified citizen. But section 61 (2) (b) does say that if born outside cayman you have to have cayman parents etc like the article says. I see what you are saying about section 61 (2) (a) being alternative but it does not make it CLEAR that it applies to persons born OUTSIDE Cayman so thats the point..I actually heard many persons who believe what the viewpoint is saying so if what you are saying is true it is widely misinterpreted…..or the article is right?
To a lawyer the section is quite clear but it is widely misinterpreted. The purpose of the provisions Re Caymanian grandparent or parent is simply to grandfather persons of Caymanian ancestry who were born abroad (often for medical reasons). It is quite simply incorrect to say that the section requires all candidates to have one Caymanian parent or grandparent.
in bahamas if you are a citizen and at least 30 years old then you can run for office if you are in the country for 12 months.
101 you really starting to dig up some stuff here. this is a good point but i dont know enough to say if cayman does that. i am not from cayman and dont have any residency etc but in my country as long as you are a citizen for 12 months before the actual election you cna run for parliament. i dont agree that someone has to be a citrizen for 15 years because thats does not sound fair at all. i cant even vote here but that just my view..
I don't know where you come from 08/22/2012 – 14:50 but we sure would not want to adopt your laws to allow anyone receiving Caymanian Status to be able to run for the Legislature 12 months post.
Actually, people also apparently missed that whole 18 MLAs thing based on the shock and awe that started *after* it was passed. A lot of people continue to demand that we continue with 15 MLAs or decrease the number even further, which would require a constitutional amendment.
In reality, we were just focusing on the gays back in 2009.
sorry but right now who cares when mac drops on us that the fudget is no good for the uk we will all be crying all the way home and none of this will make any sense.
yes i am one of those who got status. and by the way i did not get in in the udp fiasco. i have lived here for 35 years and all my children were born here. none of this family has ever gone to ministry of social service for anything we work hard and take care of ourself. soemtimes i feel like i am what they call pepr caymanian. thats not right because im not even treated like a full citizen in the country i was born so how come im not treated properly here and this is where i gave all my life.
the govt deficit is nrigning all of these things to light because when people have troubles thats when they start to talk about these type of stuff. but if everyone was making a good wage we would not need to treat each othere so badly. i will never ever try to be part of the elected team but thats not saying i dont beleive this artcle is right because i do feel that this is the right way to see things. if only we can get along as one people then we can make stronger cayman.
Yep these legalised caymanians now want to vote too. When they pay tax then we should make that change 101, and I don’t think that will ever happen.
These "legalised caymanians" you refer to pay the same taxes you do so why should they be subjected to a different standard? If they are naturalised and have lived in the country for a specific period of time, have a clean police records, are suitably qualified and are genuinely good citizens who want to do something positive for the country, why are they subjected to so much hate?
Further, I challenge all people such as yourself that direct this attitude to "legalised caymanians" to provide evidence of what you are doing for this country. Since the tipping point should be that they pay tax, you tell me what you are doing to make Cayman a better place!
I am just disgusted by some of the vitriol being doled out. It is even more disturbing when one considers that the Caymanians being championed and held up as the gold standard of who should be allowed to run for office are individuals with shady political pasts and pending police investigations. They have been implicated in domestic abuse cases and involved in assaulting each other. They are undoubtedly guilty of cronyism, guilty of nepotism and bribery. They demonstrate zero respect for anyone who challenges them and they squander the financial and natural resources of this country. Some of them don't even have relevant education or experience.
I have just reached the stage of being ashamed and hurt by views such as yours because they do NOTHING for the country. You, and people like you who hold these views, are destroying the country. I implore you all to take a breath, take a moment and really consider your positions. Are you really fighting for Cayman? Are you really protecting the country? Are you sure?
Why do you think it is right to dismiss legitmate ideas and debate on the grounds that "dem expats just waan tek everyting ova. dem nuh like us and dem nuh waan do nuttin good fi us". I am a Caymanian and I don't think that way. I use my ears, my eyes and my head. I listen, I read and I think about the issues this country faces and I consider matters such as those presented by 101 without prejudice.
Trust me, it won't hurt you to do the same.
101 if and that’s a big IF, its true that a cayman status holder can live here for as long as 20 years and still not become member of la then that’s definitely wrong. But I didn’t check it myself.
Tuff bloods, thats why MAC will be in Govt forever
Anybody who didn't notice that provision at the time of the debate on the new Constitution wasn't paying attention. The MLAs noticed it, and the FCO clerks noticed it, and those who cared for the future of Cayman noticed and protested it. Those who didn't – thanks a lot. Great job!
Good point: add this to long list of corrections to this daft Constitution the PPM served up
I like not to think about the situation.
These policies will eventually bring to the undoing of the Cayman Islands – oops, that process has already begun a long time ago…
Well – the majority of people approved the constitution.
So?
This is a very valid point.
Of course the prejudice against so-called "paper caymanians" is long standing and widespread, and contributes to the unwillingness of many to participate in the democratic process. One need only look at the quality of people getting elected as MLAs and the performance of the Government in recent years to form a judgment as to whether the current system is working.
The main argument against the existing rule however is that it is profoundly anti-democratic. The choice about who gets elected should belong to the Caymanian people and should be exercised at the ballot box. Rigging the system to exclude swathes of the Caymanian population form participating is simply disenfranchising the electors from casting their vote as they wish.
This of course suits the current crop of politicians, who prefer the status quo where votes can be bought with public money, rather than having to be earned.
"But instead we should make the change so that as long as you are Caymanian and have lived here for a specified number of years (for example 10 or 15 years), you have the right to run for office." This is almost certainly the maximum limitation which would survive a human rights challenge based upon the protection of poltical rights under the ECHR, provided that the 10 year period started to run as soon as the individual arrivedin Cayman. The current limitations are unquestionably contrary to minimum human rights obligations.
Hear, hear. If democracy is a marketplace for ideas, all this provision does is to restrict supply. Why even have the residency requirement? If the people do not think a candidate qualifies, they won't vote for him or her.