Cayman and the 2012 apocalypse
The good news is that nobody will have to worry about conditions at the Turtle Farm. The high cost of living won’t be a burden anymore either. The bad news is that the Cayman Islands will be swept under the sea, everyone will die, and all of civilization will crumble in a fiery spasm of unprecedented chaos and destruction.
Here we go again. We are fast approaching yet another angry apocalypse and no one should be surprised. Throughout history, and probably deep into prehistory, a good number of us have always been obsessed with the end of the world and been willing to jump onboard whenever someone comes along with a firm date for doomsday. This time it’s the Maya 2012 prophecy. According to believers, the Maya calendar ends on December 21, 2012 so the world will too.
Poll results vary but about ten to 12 percent of American adults think the world is going to end this year. In China, 20 percent think it’s lights out on December 21. About 13 percent in Turkey, Russia, Mexico, and Japan believe it. Overall, one in ten people globally think the Maya doomsday prediction will come true. And don’t think that it’s all a big joke. NASA astronomer David Morrison says some people are so concerned about it that they are considering suicide.
Based on my encounters, with astrology fans in George Town, obeah practitioners in West Bay and rapture-ready folks in East End, I’m guessing that a significant percentage of people in the Cayman Islands are eyeing December 21 with concern. If you are one of these people, read on and allow me to ease your mind. If you know someone who thinks there is something to this Maya prophecy, please forward this commentary to them. Do it quickly. No one should suffer this much nonsense rattling around inside their skull.
What is going on? Why do hundreds of millions of people believe this extraordinary unproven claim? First of all, the Maya civilization existed from about 200 to 900 CE. They were in southern Mexico, Guatemala, Belize, El Salvador, and parts of Honduras—very near the Cayman Islands. Maya still live in Central America today and very few of them pay any attention to this doomsday date, which is our first hint that something is very wrong.
So here is the key question: How did the Maya know centuries ago that the world would end on December 21, 2012? How did they figure out something today’s scientists couldn’t? Answer: They didn’t! They never made this prediction! It is the invention of very strange modern people. The Maya may have tracked the path of the Moon, built impressive pyramids, and ripped beating hearts out of people in the name of religion, but they never claimed to know when the world would end. Imagine that, millions of people believe in a Maya prediction that not only has no evidence to support it but was never made by the Maya in the first place.
The Maya had several calendars, one of which lasts 5,125 years. This “long-count calendar” ends this year. This is the basis of the idea that the world will end. It’s like a Maya expiration date for everything. But here’s the key: the end of a calendar does not mean the world ends too. If it did, our 12-month calendar would mark Earth’s destruction every December 31. But it doesn’t. When the calendar stuck on your refrigerator door reaches December 31 it doesn’t trigger earthquakes, plagues, and asteroid strikes. You just throw it away and buy a new one. Same with the Maya long-count calendar. This is not some wild hunch I am extracting from my nether regions. This is the conclusion of every credible Maya scholar. There are no artifacts discovered to date that show the Maya expected the world to end when their long-count calendar ended. In fact, inscriptions have been found that clearly show the Maya expected the world to be here after 2012 because they wrote about important events occurring after that date.
Another fatal problem with this prediction that the Maya never predicted is that it’s based on a bad date to begin with. It would be wrong even if it was right. The first long-count calendar begins on a creation date of 3,114 BCE. We know beyond any doubt that the world and/or humankind are much older than five thousand years. Therefore any predictions about future events that are calculated using this or any similar creation date are going to be wrong. It’s a mistake based on a mistake. This is why Rev. Harold Camping’s much-publicized rapture date in 2011 was so obviously silly. He based his calculations on the Earth being less than 10,000 years old. Anytime someone attempts to solve a mathematical problem and gets the first number in the equation wrong by more than four billion years errors are unavoidable.
The greater question in all of this is why so many of us keep falling for these hollow predictions. My hunch is that they are so tempting because we subconsciously fear a lonely death. Maybe this is what makes the idea of a global doomsday so irresistible. We are social creatures, after all. We need one another more than we realize. Is it any surprise, then, that many of us might feel the urge to all go down together? For many, a collective death is more appealing than dying alone in a car on the side of a road after a traffic accident or quietly expiring in some hospital bed.
It is important to understand that irrational beliefs about doomsday have little to do with intelligence or education. One can be very bright, but if she or he is a weak skeptic then bad ideas can easily creep in and take root. For example, no less than Isaac Newton, perhaps the greatest scientist of all time, was quite certain that the end of the world will occur in 2060. But that’s not going to happen either because, for one reason, he based his calculations on an incorrect creation date for the Earth. Bad input gets you every time. When it comes to irrational beliefs, anyone who is a human being with a human brain is vulnerable to stumbling. The best we can do is stay humble and stay skeptical.
I can tell you right now what will happen on December 22, the morning after the Maya doomsday. Because of hindsight bias, many 2012 believers will sincerely imagine that they knew it was nonsense all along. Some will say the numbers were a bit off and come up with a new date for the end. Others will say that it did happen but it was an invisible doomsday or a doomsday of the spirit—something that can’t be detected or disproved, of course. And then, before long, another irrational doomsday belief will come along and millions of innocent brains will once again be under assault.
This colossal waste of time and nervous energy doesn’t have to keep happening. People only have to commit themselves to being good skeptics. Do that and watch the bogus beliefs and crazy claims just melt away. It’s not so difficult. Demand evidence for weird ideas. Ask questions. Consider the source. Listen to contrary opinions. Learn how easily confirmation bias and other natural quirks of the mind betray us to make silly things that aren’t true seem reasonable. In short, think before you believe.
Guy P. Harrison is the author of three science-themed books: “50 Popular Beliefs That People Think are True”, “Race and Reality: What Everyone Should Know About Our Biological Diversity”, and “50 Reasons People Give for Believing in a God”. His next book is scheduled for publication in March, 2013.
Category: Viewpoint
If there were a god, would he have abandoned us with Mac? That's the best argument against a loving god.
That's right, blame God for the choices we ourselves make. Sometimes you have to live with the consequences of your own stupidity in this case by electing someone so completely unsuited to holding public office.
What makes you an expert? The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absense.
My evidence is the bible. You should try reading it. The end of this world is called Armageddon. On this day men will faint in fear. Be smart about how you want to live your life. As I said just in the days of Noah no one believed him that a flood was on its way and people laughed at him n called him a fool. Continued their sinful lifestyles. Until the flood came and it was too late. So will be the days of the end.
Times will get a lot worse before the end and it will come just when everyone thinks things are getting better. (World peace)
I too have read the bible, but like any other book, it is written by people who have put their experiences and beliefs in writing and throughout many centuries, people have interpredit it in many ways that seems endless. People, this is the bottom line, keep it simple stupid. We must all try to be good to ourselves and to others. Whether there is a god or not, if the human race continues to be irresponsible, we will cease to exist. God or no god.
No, it is not like any other book. It is the most famous book of the ages. It has survived massive attempts to destroy it. It shows extraordinary wisdom that wasn't shared by surrounding cultures. The dietary laws were there for our health. E.g. it says not to eat reptiles and they have high rates of salmonella. Some of its prophecies have been fulfilled while we are waiting on others. And it is not just written by people putting down their experiences and beliefs. "For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit". 2 Peter 1:21.
No other book even comes close.
'It is the most famous book of the ages."
Only to Christians…
Wrong. The Bible has impacted the world at large more than any other book. It has been translated into more languages than any other book. Even non-Christians read it and are inspired by it (Einstein, Ghandi etc.).
Atheists are just as dogmatic and have FAITH in what they claim, and they close their minds off to those who say otherwise because they don't share the same facts. How irrational! Atheist says there is no God and that takes faith just like a Theist who says there is one! On the other hand, AGNOSTICS, people who pend judgment on things they don't personally know, come to no assumptions from mere sensual facts at all… these people are always open and willing to learn, because they know they are things that can not be humanly explained or discovered. They don't try to discredit anyone nor demean their personal experiences. They are open and willing to learn. Atheists are very dogmatic and some even deny the existence of "evil" so they become just as dangerous like a Christian or Taliban person that believe they are doing the will of God by killing people. And they are full of Ego, so much head knowledge and so little wisdom.
The absence of evidence IS the evidence of absence.
If you were actually conducting a scientific experiment looking for x, and you found no evidence of x, you would logically have to formulate a working hypothesis that excluded x on the basis that there was no support for the existence of x or its inclusion in the hypothesis. From there you would move forward to test your hypothesis empirically (pursuing falsifiability), and for so long as x was not needed to explain the evidence (i.e. your experiences), you would have no justification for incorporating x into your working hypothesis.
If you toss x into the mix just because you feel like it, don’t try to justify it rationally, but be honest enough to admit that you are adding x to the model just because it makes you feel better.
What rubbish. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence is a well-established scientific axiom which is often cited by scientists including astronomer Carl Sagan who also said:
"An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence. Because God can be relegated to remote times and places and to ultimate causes, we would have to know a great deal more about the universe than we do now to be sure that no such God exists. To be certain of the existence of God and to be certain of the nonexistence of God seem to me to be the confident extremes in a subject so riddled with doubt and uncertainty as to inspire very little confidence indeed".
There are many scientists who theorise about intelligent life in other galaxies yet there is no evidence whatsoever for it.
Guess what? NO HUMAN BEING KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR WHEN GOD WILL COME, SO QUIT GUESSING. Just be prepared and ready when he comes. They will be eating and drinking and marrying just like in the days of NOAH! Up to you to choose life or death. Serve God and live or continue sinning and die. The bible says he will come as a thief in the night. Do you know when a thief is coming to break into your house?
He said he was just joking and won't be coming by after all. Go ahead and start without him.
There's too many things that are not in place for the world to end yet, the anti-christ, a one world currency, a one world religion, the mark of the beast which is a chip that will be implanted in your right hand or forehead that will hold all of your info, banking, medical, etc. When you start to see these things happen, that's when the shit will hit the fan. You'll have 7 years to live from when a new global world leader takes his place, 3 and half years of world peace and 3 and half years of pure hell on earth. Ask Jesus into your life today, read the bible, pick a church and go to it.
Well done to everyone for contributing to this thread. There are diverse opinions that hit pretty much every part of the God-No God spectrum.
My challenge to the believers is this. Folks, you claim to have everything that the unbelievers need, so you need to get a little more creative as to demonstrate the existence of the Almighty (not that He needs it.)
How about taking a hit in your pocket and not bragging about it? How about giving something expecting nothing in return? How about checking in on a widow or giving an old lady a top up so she can call her family?
How about accepting that non-believers may have come from traumatized backgrounds and feel that a loving God is a fairy tale. You may be the only God they see.
My challenge to the unbeliever is this. If you see someone struggling to share their faith with you, cut them some slack and if they are moving in the right direction, respect it. Ask them questions, challenge them and see what they are made of.
Let us abandon our fanatical stands on these topics. After all, God is merciful and patient. Let us be the same. At the end of the day, everyone is responsible for themselves. We know the score.
Peace to all.
"Folks, you claim to have everything that the unbelievers need, so you need to get a little more creative as to demonstrate the existence of the Almighty (not that He needs it.)".
I take the point your trying to make but no Christian should claim that they have everything someone else needs. God alone has everything they need.
You mentioned "fanatical stands". I don't think I saw any. Which ones did you have in mind?
I like the article, it seems pretty factual.
Plus it cannot be the end, Nostradamus predicted the "yellow men" would march from the East in around 2020 and occupy all of Europe apart from the UK. And that the "pushback" would start 5-6 years after.
In a world of predictions, or non predictions (as it transpires), you have to hope that the article is correct and Nostradamus too, in the sense of the latter being better than the former.
XXXX
The Caymanian-Christian bashers on CNS must have needed a fix badly to come up with this one! A weird opinion piece about an old non-story about a non-prediction, that in the first place had no link to Christians or Christian beliefs and no links to Caymanians somehow finds Caymanians/Christians to blame for starting the prediction that never was and/or believing in it. In your minds, more of those ‘idiot Caymanian-Christians’ (like me) must believe in the non-prediction than the unsubstantiated 10% of people elsewhere in the world who allegedly believe in it. The ironic thing is how quickly you proud atheists and sceptics quickly converted even that presumption of ”10% worldwide” into “fact” that you were happy to quote wide and far!! Christians have always had to deal with people much more intellectually rigorous and sceptical than that! I am not worried about when the end of the world will come as Jesus said no one can predict that; but I am worried about the future of Cayman. I am just so thankful that the people who came here in the 1960’s and helped us (yes, as hard as it is for you to believe, there were actually some Caymanians that helped too) create our financial and tourism industries did not dismiss us with such disdain.
The point is, in a nutshell, that believe in Mayan prophecy is as sane as believing in religous dogma derived from the Bible. Revelations vs Mayans much of a muchness to me.
You are right that that is the point that Mr. Harrison is seeking to make, misguided though it is. It is unlikely that 10% of the world's population actually believe in the Mayan prophecy, whatever polls say. What is far more curious is that all of 18% of the world's population don't believe in God or a god or gods. If sanity is to be judged by the norm, I would say the atheists are definitely the insane ones.
It seems each time he writes Guy's purpose is to ridicule religious belief.
Religiousity is inversely related to both level of education and intelligence. That is what the studies show time and time again.
First, I am not sure what you mean by "religiosity". It is often understood to relate to being 'excessively' religious, whatever that means.
Second, there are plenty of very bright, highly educated people who believe in God, and plenty of imbeciles who don't.
If you are clinging to atheism as a badge of intelligence then I feel sorry for you.
The more intelligent you are the less likely it is that you believe in God. The more educated you are the less likely it is that you believe in God. That has been shown by study after study. I am not claiming I am intelligent because I am an atheist. I am intelligent because I am am very intelligent. I just find the relationship between intelligence/education and a belief in God interesting. As for you last sentence, don't feel sorry for me, go on be a good Christian and forgive me.
None of this is surprising from a Christian perspective:
"But God has chosen the foolish things of the world, that he may put to shame the wise". 1 Cor. 1:27
"Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?. For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe." 1 Cor. 1:20-21
"For the message about the cross is nonsense to those who are being destroyed, but it is God's power to us who are being saved". 1 Cor 1:18
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned" 1 Cor. 2:14
"The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have?" Jer. 8:9.
"Poll results vary but about ten to 12 percent of American adults think the world is going to end this year. In China, 20 percent think it’s lights out on December 21. About 13 percent in Turkey, Russia, Mexico, and Japan believe it. Overall, one in ten people globally think the Maya doomsday prediction will come true"
You'd have to be very selective with your polls to get those stats. Try something closer to "about one in a miilion have a friend who heard that some guy was saying something about the world ending in December…"
Some Americans are sometimes easily led, but no, neither 12% of Americans nor 10% of people globally think the world is going to end in December, so your article is pretty redundant and pointless.
I predict that on Dec.22/2012 Premier McKeeva Bush will return to the island. For a brief period. Then he will travel somewhere else.
Perhaps if more of us read (and tried to understand) something other than that greatest collection ofmyths of all time (you know what I mean), we would understand why the Mayan long count calendar ends on December 21st of this year. Simply put, the Mayans were devoted astrologers, and like other ancient astrologers, recognized, perhaps without fully understanding (a little knowledge is truly a dangerous thing) precession of the equinoxes. (Google that if you want to make your head swim.) Basically precession describes how the earth “wobbles” on its axis, over a period of every 25,765 years, and on December of this year, the wobble will stop traveling in the direction it has for the last 25,765 years and start its travel back in the opposite direction.This was recognized as long ago as ca.147 BC or so and perhaps even before that by the (truly) ancient Egyptians. Yet not many people know about this today. How come, you say? Because something so mundane is nowhere near as important as why Lindsay Lohan is going to jail, perhaps?
More importantly, what does this mean for us poor little souls riding on this planet? Will the Earth finally shake us off? Will we all be thrown to the ground with this sudden shift of the eclectic? Will we see massive shifts in tides, massive flooding, and other cataclysmic phenomena, etc? Is that what the Mayans had in mind why they stopped their long count calendar? Hardly likely, I think. But there are lots of scientists studying whether we will see polar shift (which even happens slightly with major earthquakes) and effects on climate change etc. One thing is for sure, we are all going to find out pretty soon whether the doomsday soothsayers are right or not. I’m not really inclined to think that way, but, maybe, ex abundanti cortela, so to speak, I may just might take my kids on vacation to the Bavarian Alps this winter, just in case…
An interesting though confusing post. However the poster has made a common mis-quotation from one of Alexander Pope's "Essays of Criticism" in which he alludes to a litle knowledge being a dangerous thing. The correct quotation reads as follows:
A little learning is a dang'rous thing
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring
There, shallow drafts intoxicate the brain
And learning somewhat sobers us again.
Just saying!
Watch on YOUTUBE "Mysterious origins of Man". Earth crust shifting(just one of the theories) is a great possibility. Denying ancient wisdom of our ancestors is not wise. Our civilisation is not the first on this planet. Or I would say "stupidsation". We lost the "sapient" part of our nature.
I cannot understand why anyone scoffs at death, seeing as we will all face it.
Thumbs down is fine, but it does not change the truth. We all have an appointment with death.
My Momma taught me to be prepared for all appointments. You know, clean underpants and all that….
To my fellow believers, I would like to add, "Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His saints." Yep, it's in the book. Google it….lol.
What is wrong with the Mayan callender is the ability of modern people to accurately translate it.
We have had many people predict things in this world. In the end we will know some day of truth and what is false.
XXX
We all know how these end of world predictions go.
It's inherent for humans to think of destruction and the end of this or the end of that. We're like locust. All we know is how to destroy something. Circling the drain.
Whether you subscribe to Revelations, The Mayan Calendar, The Nostrodumus POST-dictions, Heaven's Gate, Harold Camping, Anunnaki returning, Zombies… Prince (1999)…. it's all because of the same reason – humans have long been unhappy with the way things are because humans are genetically greedy, stupid and destructive. So one set of humans wishes for things to end through some "unworldly" intervention so that they can stick it the set of humans that have all the power and need to be knocked down a couple hundred knotches.
It's all about destroying stuff. Funny thing is we don't need any help ending life as we know it. Nope – we're doing a fine job on our own. Speaking of which, I've been going through my personal apocalypse since my Caymanian sheeple elected McKeeva Bush back in to office (now I know how those homeless dudes feel standing on sidewalk with the cardboard signs proclaiming the "end is nigh"… no one is listening). Dark day that was. Dark, dark day. Fortunately most of the Bush Zombies seem to be disappearing and many of us survivors are only now feeling safe to return outside without fear of being eaten alive by a Bush Zombie who'd like nothing more than to salvatate over our brains and spread the stupid virus. (Oh yeah.. I went there!)
"The planet isn't going anywhere… we are!" – George Carlin
GUY HARRISON FAN CLUB – CAYMAN CHAPTER!
At least we will all go together!
Party at my place on the 21st!
Anyone who thinks the world will end then it’s best to sell your house and cars before the end!!!!
Call me, I will pick them up nice and cheap ; ) …but please stock up on gas and food items prior to sale…just in case…muhahahahaha!!!
“If you want to know if God exists, it’s simple, “Ask Him.””
If god were real it could just show up, end the debate, and I wouldn’t have to ask. Your version suggests I should talk to a voice in my head – but the only voice in my head is mine. If you have more, you should see someone.
So you are discounting the possibility of telepathic communication? That is not a very scientific approach.
It's kind of like the Easter Bunny – I've never seen it, but I discount its existence on the basis of it's progeny: grown people who believe in mythical invisible creatures are basically nuts. It's not as scientific as, say, dissecting the brains of those people to find out WHY they are nuts and WHY they believe in mythical invisible creatures, but for some reason that mode of scientific inquiry has not advanced very far. Go figure.
That's right. 95% of the world's population who believe in God or a god (but not in the Easter bunny) are basically nuts and you are one of the few sane people. What an ego.
“We know beyond any doubt that the world and/or humankind are much older than five thousand years.”
The local witchdoctors will have you boiling in a big pot of potatoes and carrots for that one. Dawkins would be proud of you.
I am not sure which local witch doctors you are referring to that believe the world/human kind are only 5,000 years old.
Most likely the ones that get themost nation building funds. Fundamentalist Christians and witch doctors are much the same concept in my book.
Christians do not believe the earth/humans are only 5,000 years old. Even if one took a literal view of every single sentence in the bible one could not arrive at that view.
There is no comparison between fundamentalist Christians and witch doctors.
I agree with your last sentence, in my experience I have not found witch doctors to be rampantly homophobic.
Interesting that you are well experienced with witch doctors. I think that damages your credibility already.
By and large Christians aren't homophobic either. They just consider the homosexual lifestyle to be immoral. You do understand the difference, don't you? We also consider child molesters to be immoral, but we neither hate nor fear them.
You're not homophobic, but you say there is a moral equivalency between homosexuality and child molestation?
Doublethink: "The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them."
I'm saying they are both immoral. Clear enough for you?
There you go judging people again… all because that book said you are supposed to kill homosexuals, as well as: people who work on Sundays, non-believers, naughty children, people who curse their parents, foreigners of other religions (but only the men, boy children and married women, because the book says you get to keep the virgin girls as sex slaves), adulterers, blasphemers, and so on and so on. Your morality leaves a great deal to be desired if it is based upon that source of evil and corrupt thinking – yes, that's right – pure evil comes from that book.
Christians are not commanded to kill anyone, homosexuals or anyone in your list. Jesus taught by word and example that we are to love each other even (perhaps, especially) those who are trapped in the devil's snare of sinful lifestyles. But loving does not mean pretending that what is immoral is moral, or what is evil is good, or what is wrong is right. It does not mean I do not love my child because he is corrected he does wrong. Watching him engage in self destructive behaviour without a word is not love. Christ's command to not judge does not mean we must lose all sense of right and wrong or that we must keep quiet about it. In fact if we do or are we will be held accountable that we sounded no warning.
Part of the judging Christ condemns is assuming you know the hearts and motives of others. Ironically, your post is filled with that sort of judgement against every Christian.
So you are saying that Christians don't believe in the bible parts that command you to kill people (meaning the Old Testament), right? So why do you included it in the book if it is so repugnant to your faith? IT CLEARLY commands the readers to kill the people in the list.
If you do not understand even fundamentals of Christianity you really shouldn't post anything about it.
That's right – nothing is wrong anymore. Homosexual practices are ok, child molestation is ok. If you say they are immoral you are "judging" because nothing is really wrong, except of course if you are Christian then everything about you is wrong, but that's not judging.
You are one twisted individual.
I judge actions because they are right or wrong, not because an old book purports to tell me so. If I relied on the book, I'd have to be killing all the people in the list (aren't you killing those people as you are commanded?). I reject the book and rely on rationally-based ethics to guide me.
PS – Your comparison of homosexuality to child rape is so flawed I'm not even going to try to reason with you about it.
That is what we do. The difference is that rather than ethics based on divine revelation and shared by 2 billion others yours is based on your own subjective ideas.
Christian morality provides a very high ethical standard. Do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Render unto no man evil for evil. Bless your enemies and pray for them.
It was not aquestion of comparison. It was making the point that we must make moral judgements which the poster seemed to think was not permissible because it involves “judging”. Clearly you don’t have the same objections to judging, you just think it should be according to your own ideas which you deem rational.
I realize that the witch doctors you are speaking about are the so called Christians.
I think I should point out to you that there are more Christians in the world than any other kind of religion. I think I should also point out to you that there are many of them that are very highly educated.
I personally am a scientist and I have never attended a class that proved that God did not exist.
Please don't confuse the possible existence of god with the preposterous and evil fables promulgated by Christians, such as:
1. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.
2. We must kill everyone who does not believe in the God of the Bible.
3. All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.
4. If you happen to be homosexual you are to be killed.
5. Rebellious teenagers should all be killed (by stoning).
6. It is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
7. Slavery is OK. (Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.)
8. It's OK to turn foreign women into sex slaves (Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.)
…and so on and so on. Add to that the inquisition, the crimes of the Papacy, the diddling of alterboys, the Crusades, and so on and so on.
If I was the devil, I would call my self a Christian and then commit atrocities and laugh my horned head off as ignorant buffoons like you blamed it on my mortal enemy, that righteous maniac, God.
Job done!
Who needs Guy Harrison when I have you? Yeah baby, keep rolling. See you in hell. By the way I have one last surprise for you.
"…ignorant buffoons…"? You believe in mythical invisible people including a horned supernatural being living in an unreal place filled with fire and brimestone, and we're the ignorant buffoons? Plus, you realize I was pulling quotes and directions right out of the Bible, the "perfect word", right? Were you suggesting you don't believe in the Bible? Me either. Nor do I believe in hell, satan, god, or any of the misguided crud found in that book. Whatever your surprise was, "Boo" to you too.
The surprise will be when Satan shows up at the judgement and says "Sorry, Jack, you are just like the rest of those fools who actually think that I'll go to bat for them. You are made in the image of God and therefore I hate you. Sorry…..not"
While you still live, think this thing through. Search, and don't quit till you find.
Yeah, but there is no such thing as Satan, and there will be no "judgment" (except the future humans looking back and wondering how such superstition managed to survive so far into the information age, and judging you), and all that effort to sell an irrational fear of a non-existent supernatural being as justification for believing an "eternal damnation" myth, well that's just nuts. Whoever convinced you of that story needs to be slapped in the head.
You know that for a scientific fact do you, or are you being dogmatic? That is simply what you believe to be the case. It has no greater validity than the beliefs that you seek to discredit.
I am assuming you are an expert on the subject… lol… scientist still don't have all the answers to all questions me lad. I think you are discredting no one but yourself. You sound dogmatic. :o)
Anyone who believes in God, the Source of Goodness, can never rule out that there is an Evil source in direct opposition to God. In the world you have opposites. You have ying and you have yang. Remember if you are male your life extends by average to 70. If you are female to 80. No matter how long you live, you will still not be educated enough to make such claims or come to judgement that there is no God and no Devil. These issues have been discussed over hundreds of years and people have profess, seen, and have experienced spiritual warfare for themselves. Who are you, a mere human mortal that lives such a short life, to make a judgement that there is no evil or a God? STOP TALKING FOOLISHNESS AND OPEN YOUR EYES!
huh.. you three commenters who scorn people of faith, have endorse a faith, called atheism yourselves. For it takes great faith to say there is no God. You have literally shun all accounts of the supernatural and call them false, and then you have to disregard within yourself the notion of having a conscience which tells you right from wrong, and then close youreyes to the reality of selfish ambitions, mass murders, and play it off and say there is no such thing as evil. Or, you lie on your deathbed and close your mind with no thought of a destination, that you no more exist and will rot like a dead rat on the street and that's it! Surely… it takes alot of "faith" to be an Atheist just like it takes faith to be a Christian or Theist – they are just as arrogant and stuck in their ways, refusing to be open to learn to new experiences because they got it all figured out in their heads. These people who claim to be intellectuals have very big egos, they claim to know all the answers, but mere head knowledge leads them to no where.
As a central tenet of your religion is the existence of God, I would have thought that the burden of proving the existence of the enitre foundation of your belief to doubters would fall on you, rather than asking them to prove a negative.
Except that a definite claim is being made that God does not exist. The onus is on you to prove your contention.
Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolvingabout the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.
– Bertrand Russell
I repeat "Except that a definite claim is being made that God does not exist. The onus is on you to prove your contention". If you were merely agnostic you would have a case. But you too are making a definitive claim, and unlike the claims of religion, you claim to be scientific in your outlook. You must therefore support your view scientifically whereas religion has no such onus.
So an atheist must provide proof, whereas the religious believer gets away with mere assertion?
In that case, I assert that in fact the Norse belief system is correct. There is no onus on me to prove or substantiate that fact. You can’t disprove it. So it’s true. Is that how it works? Because let’s be honest, there is as much evidence for Thor as there is for the proposition that god impregnated a Palestinian virgin just so be could die years later and then be resurrected I.e. NONE!
Not true. Ask yourself why there are 2 billion Christians as opposed to a handful of Norse believers.
This argument only shows that Christianity is popular, not that it is true. 67% of the world's population are not Christians – by your logic, that means Christianity isn't true.
The popularity of Christianity is a result of its adoption by the Romans and the historical spread of this culture. It is nothing to do with its factual basis. If the Ottomans had made it across Europe, Islam might be the most popular.
It might have escaped your attention but the Roman Empire crumbled many centuries ago before the new world has discovered. The number of those who adhere to Christianity today has absolutely nothing to do with the Roman Empire.
OK. World History 101. Europe influenced everywhere between the 15th and 20th centuries, with the exception of most of Asia. So the "new world" was conquered and ruled by the British, the French and the Spanish. Now you may not know much about Gaul, Iberia and Britannia but they were controlled by the Romans. So Christianity spread through Europe then from Europe all over the World, new and less know. So the point you tried to ridicule was pretty much 100% true.
Religious belief is based on faith although there may be reasons supporting that faith.
There is of course evidence supporting the basis of Christianity – the empty tomb, the eyewitness accounts of a resurrected Jesus, the transformed lives of the formerly frightened disciples, the fact that the disciples were willing to and did sacrifice their lives to uphold the truth of their story, the present day accounts of supernatural manifestations involving Jesus Christ etc. Of course whether you believe in them is a matter of faith. There is no similar evidence in Norse mythology which might explain why there are so few believers in Norse mythology today versus Christianity.
And why would they have given up their lives for a mere myth? So many accounts of Christian martyrs in the hundreds of thousands, dying and testifying that this "man" Jesus was not any ordinary man! Are you going to be so brazen to call them all mad because you are an intellectual and through one of your fragile senses you have no evidence??? Well… I got news for you… not everything true is evidentially true!
Poster 16:00
We do not care about the norse belief system or thor,so if you want to believe that then do.
God is real and i dont have to prove it to you,hope that dont bother you.
…and you claim that because you are not obligated to be scientific you can avoid proving your case? I'll use inductive reasoning: I've been a lot of places, and everywhere I've been there has not been a creature I could identify as a god; ergo, in all probability god does not exist. There's my proof, so where's yours?
That is so illogical at so many levels I am not sure where to start.
1. God is not a creature. If you were looking for a creature that you could identify as god then obviously you had no idea what you were looking for.
2. God is not physical. You would not find him in "places" you have been as one might an iguana.
3. You have not been everywhere.
4. That would assume that your knowledge and powers of perception are flawless.
You argument is as ridiculous as saying – no, more ridiculous for the reasons explained above – I have been to lots of countries and I have never seen every strange rare creature that is claimed to exist therefore they do not exist.
"…there are more Christians in the world than any other kind of religion…"
Yeah, and everyone used to think the world was flat, and they were all wrong too.
Well statistically, there are more Christians, but when you break it down there are discrepancies: there are more Muslim Sunnis than Roman Catholics, for instance, and very, very few (maybe none) who follow the ancient Mayan codices.
Mmmm… so roughly 10% of people believe it may be curtains for all of us on Dec. 21st and want to consider suicide? (to make sure, I guess) perhaps that is not such a bad idea!
Let's see, that would be about 700 million, Mmmm…. that would free up a lot of space, reduce global warming, improve food availability for the rest and probably save a lot of non-renewable energy!
I think I'll refrain from discouraging anyone who wants to do it! 🙂
"Based on my encounters, with astrology fans in George Town, obeah practitioners in West Bay and rapture-ready folks in East End".
Thanks for saying we are rapture ready in EE, Guy. Not like those heathen GTers and WBers.
; <)
guy….don't ask awkward questions……….
And what about the Mayan prediction of Hernan Cortes, Spanish explorer coming to the Americas and taking the Aztec city??
No such thing.
the mayans predicted that historical account of Cortes and it came true… seems like Guy Harrison doesn't address that because he already made up in his mind that whatever sounds like its prophecy or mystical, is not worth investigating. I know people like him.
Nobody predicted 'Cortes' let alone the Mayans, but the Aztecs of Montezuma had a myth that said a white skinned god would come from the East.
If u're gonna troll, at least have the courtesy of checking your nonsense on google
…which fit Cortes arrival since he was the first European who came (from the East). Obviously it did not call Cortes by name.
Guy Harrison is a athiest!!. He is entitled to his non-belief- but why spend so much energy trying to sway others from believing what they want to believe. "Me thinks he doth protest too much". I believe in christianity- he does not- my bible tells me that "every knee will bow and every tongue will proclaim that Christ is the Son of God" Also please remember that the existence of God/Jesus/Holy Spirt does not depend on whether Guy or any one else believe it. Personally I would rather believe in something and find out it is not so than to not believe and find out it is so. Take you pick !!
"Based on my encounters, with astrology fans in George Town, obeah practitioners in West Bay"
I've been looking for a place to worship Obeah. Is there a gathering place in West Bay?
you have to give it up for the Mayans in their accuracy though, the December 22, 2012 end calender is one that tracks the movement of the centre of the Milky way (not the nougat, wrong MIlky way), with the poistions of the sun and earth, and on that date, 5,126 years ago was the last time the sun and milkyway lined up from the earth.
There prediction was only 5 hours out, amazing considering today we can't even produce an accurate set of government accounts.
Guy, you are so predictable. Just because you don't want to believe in God, you try to make everyone out to be fools who don't subscribe to your theories.
If someone wants to believe in God, let them be. Are they doing you any harm? Why do you appear to be so intolerant? You don't believe in God, fine. Leave it at that.
For one who relies so heavily on seeing to believe, you are in for one hell of a shock.
The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God."
You are going to find out and I sincerely hope it's not the hard way. In the meantime, please get a little humility, live and let live. We are all only here for a short time.
"It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement."
If you think that your existence here is random, you can be no smarter than the wisest fool. From one human being to another, I do wish you all the best, but your tunnel vision constrains your freedom. Newton only discovered principles that had already been in existence. Think about that.
If you want to know if God exists, it's simple, "Ask Him."
"No father among you would give his child a stone if he asked you for a piece of bread."
Ask for a bite of the Bread of Life. You will be amazed at how good it tastes.
"Taste and see that the Lord is good."
Bon appetit!
Never mind the bread, sounds like someone's been drinking the kool aid
Perhaps the most pointless Viewpoint of all time. Unless you are a complete idiot in which case you might have learned something.
I wonder what ju-ju thinks?
The world is 6000 years old. The moon is 2000 years old. Evolution is a myth. There is a firmament just above us. Certain men referred to in the Bible lived for hundreds and hundreds of years. Do you want more?
Oh come on Guy, now you've wrecked it! I had my family believing in Aztec mummies, crystal skulls and galactic alignments. I signed them up for an organized "sacred tour" of Chichen Itza, Dec.21, just so they could be therewhen the Mayan odometer reverts to zero. (It's pretty cheap – no return tickets) I even have my sister-in-law giving me her Jimmy Choo's…
It was a colossal waste reading this..
You are taking yourself WAY too seriously…and yet, still wasted more time posting a collossally pointless comment…
It was tongue in cheek, most of it. Geez…
Most of it, eh?
A little poison destroys the whole meal.