MLAs silent on dump debate

| 26/10/2012

dump demo (242x300).jpg(CNS): The two government representatives for Bodden Town have remained silent in the face of an invitation by district activists to engage in a debate over the relocation of the landfill to their constituency. Neither minister Mark Scotland or back-bencher Dwayne Seymour have responded to the invititation sent to both men on Monday, which followed the challenge issued by former district MLA Charles Clifford to publicly discuss the issue with him and Gregg Anderson, a coalition leader in the Bodden Town Civic Centre. Scotland reportedly agreed to the debate after he called into the radio morning talk show on Rooster last week when Clifford was a guest, telling the host he accepted the challenge .

However, the coalition now believes the environment minister and his UDP colleague are backing out. Coalition members said Friday that they have not even received an acknowledgment from either of the men following the email sent out setting out the proposed parameters for the debate and allowing the district MLAs to choose a convenient date before 10 November.

Charles Clifford said that there was “not even the courtesy of a reply to our private letter following up on his agreement to a public debate.”

The former environment minister and MLA for the district, who lost his seat to Seymour by a thin margin in the 2009 election, said he did not believe either man would have been elected had they campaigned on a platform that included moving the landfill to Bodden.

“Had Minister Scotland and Mr Seymour promised the people of Bodden Town a garbage dump when they were campaigning in 2009, they would not have been elected,” Clifford said as he accused the two representatives of breaking promises to their constituents and refusing to address their continued request for answers on the dump issue. “They know what they are doing is wrong and against the wishes of their constituents and that is why they are running and hiding.”

Although Clifford has resigned from the opposition PPM since he lost his Bodden Town seat, it is understood that he has not retied from politics and is likely to run in the May 2013 elections in the district where he is strongly tipped to be returned. After completing his articles earlier this year with judicial services, Clifford was called to the bar recently and has since stepped back into the public limelight.  He has lent his public support to the coalition in its vociferous opposition to the idea of moving the George Town landfill to a new pristine site for the benefit of one developer rather than tackling the problem in situ for the benefit of all.

Clifford and coalition leader Vincent Frederick were guests of Cayman Crosstalk on 15 October when Scotland called in about the proposal to move the landfill. Clifford challenged Scotland to a public debate on the issue and Austin Harris said at the end of the show that Scotland had informed him he would accept the challenge.

On 22 October coalition chairman Alain Beiner followed up and sent a letter via email to Scotland and Seymour outlining a proposed format for the debate and asking for a reply within 48 hours.

The coalition members said they had received an automated receipt confirmation from Seymour’s Blackberry so they were confident the men have the correspondence but despite asking Scotland to respond within two days by Friday, the two MLAs remained silent.

“A public debate is the best forum for both sides – the two government MLAs for Bodden Town who support the proposed dump and the Coalition which opposes it – to openly and fairly present their arguments to the people of Bodden Town and of the entire island,” Beiner said. “How else can ordinary people fully understand the issue?  How else can Government’s ‘public consultation of a technical nature’, apparently promised for November, be in the least bit meaningful, and relevant to the real-life concerns of our district?”

He said the coalition considers a public debate an essential part of the process and regrets the lack of any responsefrom the Bodden Town MLAs for Bodden Town. “They continue to hide from the people who elected them. Was Minister Scotland’s radio-show agreement to a debate just another lie?” Beiner asked.

See email to Scotland and Seymour below.

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  1. Anonymous says:

    I meant by “no recycling has been mentioned” because Dart is only paying for Phase 1 which does not include recycling. Which means it will never happen because Government will make up an excuse why it cannot go forward with the recycling program. So this so called waste management facility will be nothingbut a dump! And another site contaminated! What is waste management if it does not include recycling? I think not only Mark and John John should go but our third MLA as well as he has also been silent. We need more Ezzard Millers to be the voice of the people, at least he listens to what his district has to say.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Nothing from the doomed duo from BT? Well that's a big surprise!

    • Anonymous says:

      John John is going to do nothing until Election Day and then he will send everyone a text to say he has been injured in an accident in the hope that sympathy votes will save his seat. This will not be a lie. It will be a plan.

  3. Green Hornet says:

    Then if it is going to be a waste management recycling facility….then barkers (West Bay) would be the best place and safest place to put it. It would not destroy the water lense and the central wetlands in Bodden Town. Besides you have two road corridors that can accommodate the increased traffic. Bodden Town does not have the infrastructure to accommodate the increased traffic. If government is to manage it, it will be a dump and with serious consequences down the road. Think of all the promises we have had that never materialized or went wrong. Are we really all better off today than say 15 years ago?

  4. Anonymous says:

    These two MLA's are a total waste of tax payers money in my opinion. Cannot wait until we get rid of them. The sooner the better.

  5. Anonymous says:

    Talking of Waste Management. How's it going with Mark and Dwayne?

  6. Anonymous says:

    Are they moving the dump or building a waste management facility? There’s an important difference and I would agree to a waste management facility in BT but not a dump

    • Anonymous says:

      You hit the nail square on the head!

      For decades, the CIG has ignored the necessity to actually do something about waste, stacking it up is what happens in thirrd world countries, whilst you may waste money liberally and have constant shortfalls, Cayman is not a poor country and should face up to this issue.

      Some chance though, if the government will not address the waste of your cash, they are unlikely to get honest about your trash!

  7. Anonymous says:

    Silent, absent, but well paid!

  8. Anonymous says:

    Thanks you to the Coalition, especially Mr. Charles Clifford, Mr. Gregg Anderson and Mr. Vincent. Fearless men whom we appreciate as Bodden Towners.

  9. Anonymous says:

    Why should George Town have to store the garbage for all districts.

    • Anonymous says:

      Because it it the capital and main commercial area of the island where the very large majority of our garbage is generated. Trucking it from there all the way to Bodden town forever is a hopeless waste of our resources.

      • Anonymous says:

        Where do you think we live , New York?? It's about a 15 to 20 min drive from GT to BT as long as you are not in rush hour traffic…

        In the states in can be trucked an hour or more at a ime…your excuse is poor at the very best!!

        • Anonymous says:

          Try driving your car from George Town to Bodden town in fifteen minutes, and then see if you can borrow a loaded garbage truck and do it in fifteen minutes my friend. Your point is even more mute considering the fact that because it can(not) be done in fifteen minutes and the unnecessary cost of doing so several times every day for the next hundred years most certainly does not make it a cost effective or practical proposition. 

        • Anonymous says:

          You forgot to mention that they will also be hauling garbage from West Bay, which is certainly the second if not THE largest garbage producing district in Cayman. The facility needs to remain in one of or as close to these two districts as possible for very simple economic reasons, particularly since it is supposedly going to be a modern waste management facility and not a garbage dump. Why on earth can or perhaps WILL people not see that taking this to Bodden Town is absurd in the highest sense of the word is completely beyond me. This is not rocket science people, but I suppose as long as it makes sense to a gowerment that doesn't give a damn then all is well.

        • Anonymous says:

          Very obviously it is YOU who thinks we are living in New York.

  10. Anonymous says:

    Silent…but deadly!

    That’s my speciality!

    • noname says:

      It is so sad when caymanians keep electing people that have pledged allegiance totheir Political Party of party leader, and at the same time totally ignore the people that elected them.Therefore they committed a crime when they held up their hands pledging to serve the people whom they have only deceived from that time until this! Our only hope is independent candidates properly vetted. Forget about party politica both these parties are pledged to party politics and party policies, the people are not included.!

      What a shame!

      Caymanians, the way to go is INDEPENDENT! Yes INDEPENDENT CANDIDATES!


  11. Anonymous says:

    There is a world of difference between a Waste Management Facility and a Landfill like the one in George Town.

    The use of the “D” word is intended to cause emotional responses from people who are ignorant of that difference.

    Those people who are suggesting that Barkers is a better place because the wind will carry away the smell and the leachate can go west with the currents in the sea are missing the point that there shouldn’t be any smell or leachate (I leave aside the implication that it is OK to dump leachate in the sea in the first place because the currents will carry it somewhere else).

    The Waste Management Facility has to go somewhere. The location chosen is as good as it can get.

  12. Anonymous says:

    Recyling has not even been mentioned! The dump move to BT will just be another hole to dump garbage in! I am so disgusted that BT could even be considered as a location. There are other solutions that are cheaper but the Government has not given others the opportunity to bid on it again. Hey money talks and us middle class working folks have no voice! I am glad the Coalition is making a stand. Mark and John John May 2013 can’t come fast enough!

    • Anonymous says:

      Yes it has; you just haven't bothered to read the reports that talked about it. 

      The waste management site will be laid out to facilitate recycling. However, it will be up to the government to institute recycling, which will mean bringing legislation.  People around here will scream that foreign ideals are being forced on Cayman, that our current system is just fine because that's the way it always has been, that this wouldn't be a problem if Cayman just kicked all the trash generating expats off the island. Eventually, some government will have the guts and foresight to ignore the rabblerousers and institute recycling and two months after it is implemented, everyone will be used to it, the world won't end and Cayman will be on the path to responsible waste management. 

      That the George Town Landfill should be closed and remediated is really a no-brainer to anyone with a brain. There probably are arguements for different locations of a new waste mangement facility, but given the fact that the East-West Arterial isn't likely to be extended any time in the next decade, the Pease Bay iocation is probably the best.

  13. Fair Minded Caymanian says:

    Good Men have lost their seats in the LA because they chose to make tough decisions on difficult projects which is right for the Country.  I hope and pray this is not the case with Mark & Dwayne.


    • BORN FREE says:

      The 2 BT MLA's are silent on the dump issue because the premier is off island (AGAIN!) & they have to wait until he gets back to find out what they are allowed to say.

    • Anonymous says:

      You seem to have gotten this wrong on every possible level.

      They are NOT good men.

      They never make ANY decisions, tough or otherwise.

      They do not care about country.

    • Anonymous says:

      Good men always have the courtesy and decency to respond to their constituents.

  14. Thunder Storm says:

    Bodden Towners (residents) in the surrounding area of the BT dump site need to survey

    the possibility of the "What If's" in case another Hurricane like that of Hurricane Ivan,

    or stronger,  causes a significant amount of flooding that would cause a water run-off

    from the Dump site and pollute their homes with bacteria-filled water – just like that

    which happened to the residents in Park Way, George Town during Hurricane Ivan.


    Further, the BT Dump site is situated ina swampy area which means the water lenses

    are pretty much ground level. Common sense tells me that any of those residents are

    presently using their well water for various purposes, that that too will eventually

    become contaminated from the bacteria build-up from the dump.


    BT'ers, your two representatives does not live anywhere near the BT dump sire nor the

    water run-off of the dump.  What reassurance, within the written contract with Dart,

    have they given you??  You need to be WISE and ask for the hard written evidence

    as this cannot be proven in their spoken words.

    • Anonymous says:

      BTers 12;14 is one of them i have been telling you about. as you can see it's allaboiut castigating the two BT members. instead of them lookuingbat the positive opportunities this 60 million dollar development that will bring wealt and jobs to the district.

      These oppositions, like i said earlier, are in the category of wanting their group to get in the LA to get what they want. Because they are not getting it from this government after slagging them off….they want them out, and this is why they keep pounding away that this is not good for BT.

      I will ask all you BTers, take a drive out to the site and you will see that the site  is at least 3 miles from any of your homes. Well water comes from the ground, which filters through the lime stone,  90 % is usually from the ocean, this is why our water level on land is the same as our ocen level. by the time it reaches our  wells, mostly all the salt and impurities are traped within the pores of the lime stone…whivh yeilds fresh or brackishwater.                                                                                                                                                                   Now, lets take a look at your septic tank (Shit tank ) 100% of homes in BT have one. Your shit, shower water, kitchen water and every nasty contaminated water is dumped into this septic.  the solid waste ( shit) is separted from the liquid which runs off into another compartment  of your septic, and guess wherre this contaminated water is going? at the end of your septic sits a deep well  which catches your contaminated  water which takes it down to your limestone cavities. Now all of you that have a well which is probably 20 to 70 feet away from this shit pit is now fully contaminated. I sure hope you all not drinking that water. My educated guess is that by the time any waste water leeches from this facility, which will have a thick rubber membrane lined the bottom will be nil. A little education, these same rubber membrane are  the same ones they use in desserts, to create man made lakes.  

      • Literacy Weak says:

        I certainly don't want a rubber membrane in my dessert!!

        • Anonymous says:

          In the world of waste disposal, Rubber membranes is how you practice safe sacks.

  15. Anonymous says:

    I have it from a good source that the Chuckster isn't running in this election. He just knows that moving the dump to BT is wrong from every conceivable angle and so he is fighting to keep it out of Bodden Town. That's a hell of a lot more than we can say for our current 3 MLAs who must go in 2013. We should just hope that 4 good candidates with the intestinal fortitude of the Chuckster steps forward !

    Where is the PPM in this ? Is it true that they have committed to DART that they will not oppose the BT dump if they are elected but will allow it to proceed ? Enquiring minds want to know !!!

    And where has Tony Eden been for 4 years ??????????????

  16. Green Hornet says:

    If the dump had to be moved from its current location, why not place it in Barkers? From my understanding Dart owns most of the land already and the stench would go out to sea instead of two thirds of the island if it is moved to Bodden Town. In addition to this, it would be a whole lot closer to truck to west bay considering they have two road corridors now. Also there would be no issues with the water lense and the central wet lands. Just my two cents….

    • Anonymous says:

      So very sorry but your extremely sensible, practical two cents worth amounts to a pile of stinking, rotting garbage where Mac and his puppets are concerned if it offends lord Dart. God help  us.

    • Anonymous says:

      The dump in Barkers? In West Bay? On Dart's property? No matter how practical? As long as McKeeva is premier? I'm sorry but you're clearly hallucinating my friend.

  17. Green Hornet says:

    If the dump had to be moved from its current location, why not place it in Barkers? Frommy understanding Dart owns most of the land already and the stench would go out to sea instead of two thirds of the island if it is moved to Bodden Town. In addition to this, it would be a whole lot closer to truck to west bay considering they have two road corridors now. Also there would be no issues with the water lense and the central wet lands. Just my two cents….

  18. Truth says:

    The blind leading the blind. They can't deal with having trash so they just want someone else to hide it where no one can see it or smell it.  On a small island.  On a small flat island.  With no good place to put it.  Hint:  It really has to go somewhere on Cayman.  People of Cayman, show us your intelligence instead of the lack there of.

    • Anonymous says:

      Thank you 08;54


      For admitting that there wont be any smell or visibility,  you must've went and take a look at the site to educate yourself, instead of listening to these idiots.

  19. Anonymous says:

    Probably got his hand smacked by Mac and is grounded 🙂

  20. Anonymous says:

    Mr. Clifford had Mark stammering and searching for answers when Mark called into Rooster while the Chuckster was a guest. Can you imagine what would happen to Mark and John John during a public debate with Charles Clifford and Gregg Anderson. Mark and John John……game over for the two of you in BT !!!

    • Anonymous says:

      No footprints in the sands of time for Mark andJohn John.  Your seafeather shoes are on.  Have fun until May 2013.

  21. Anonymous says:

    Sounds to me like you should’ve voted for Chuckie when you had the chance!

    • Anonymous says:

      Anon 0806 I cant agree with you totally there. Lets not forget what he did when he was in power.

      The big mistake that this country made as a whole was that we all in our own way gave the power to the UDP. Had no problem even with them going in as by far and away most of us agreed with them going in. The problem was that they had too mush of an advantage in the house. Moreover it is rather obvious by now that the rest of the UDP are yes men. If they say they are not then the current attitude of the country towards the premeir should be directed at each and every member.

      And you know what is crazy about it. When we put the PPM in power was because Mac had given away all the status grants and we forgot it. Voted him back into power and now we pay. The question is we all fairly well know that they will lose power next election but the one after they will be favour to get back.

  22. Anonymous says:

    Children! Children! try to behave!


    Chuckie Vincent and Gregg, we all know that this is simply poilitical grandstanding and the start of the sily season for your announcement to run for office in Bodden Town. It is a pity though that this is the only thing you can find to rally the voters in Bodden Town.

    I am a Bodden Towner and I am undecided as to whether this is a good thing or not simply because government not DART will be in charge of it after it is built, but at least these guys have put forward a solution to resolve the landfill issue. Nobody including me wants it in their backyard but aside from building another island to put it on, it has to go somewhere and we know that the life span of the GT Dump passed several years ago. What Chuckie and Co. needs to do is to come up with alternate solutions and not the same old crap about keeping it in George Town. School children in China now know that is no longer feasible.

    I am still hopeful that Bodden Town in the next election can return as we did in the past, men and women as leaders to bring our country together and move it forward. The PPM had their turn and they spent us into oblivion. The UDP has ideas but no clue how to rally support or implement them. Then they are the Chuckie's and the wannabe's that say they are doing it for "love of country" when we have perfect examples of the type of leadership or should I say mal leadership that they would provide.

    As a Bodden Towner, what I want to see is four fresh, young, charismatic business people with good economic sense vying for seat in my district. The country needs leadership and for years and years, political leadership begun in Bodden Town.

    I' m sorry Chuckie and Co. you just don't fit the bill niether does Mark, John John or Tony for that matter. You guys are all politcs as usual and you are all out for number 1…you." All of you have forgotten that true leaders lead, not follow or gather as much for themselves as possible without consideration of others..

    Chuckie, Gregg, Vincent, Mark, John John and Tony, you are all grown men. Be men, act like men moreover act like real strong Caymanians and get out of that one sided bully pit they call a talk show. Why don't you all get together for lunch one day or one of you have a bbq or do like the PPM used to do and cook up some Turtle meat(although turtle meat and PPM could arouse past memories) and sit down around a table play some dominos and have a debate amongst yourselves and reach some consensuseven  if it is to continue to still disagree. All this political grandstanding and one upmanship to get votes helpsall of you but it does absolutely nothing for us the people of Bodden Town who are feed up with politics as usual. Your tactics may have worked years ago but people can see through all the rhetoric now and we don't want rhetoric, we want people with a good head on their shoulders, and the knowledge and skills to run a country and at the same type devoting themselves to doing what is best for the country and not necessarily for themselves or their consituents in order to keep votes. 

    Am I asking for too much? If I am, I 'm going up in the bush to cut me a good broom to dry out and be ready for some sweeping on election day.






  23. Anonymous says:

    the 2 mla's are a waste of space but the new waste mangement facility is the best way forward……..

  24. Anonymous says:

    Mr Scotland hasn't done anything of note in his term and Mr Seymour….well you only have to read the news, sometimes stuff sticks whatever the court says…

    • Anonymous says:

      Which is better than John John, whose only activity seems to have been humiliating himself in Court.

  25. Coalition For A Dump Free G.T. says:

    Move along folks, nothing to see here.

  26. SKEPTICAL says:

    Scotland is frightened of his own shadow, tiny though it is, so it is hardly surprising that he would not step into the public arena for a debate he could never have won.

  27. Anonymous says:

    Mark & John John are history.  They have proven to be the poorest examples of representatives and next election, even them will be looking for someone else to vote for!  How can they support a dump in BT when the vast majority of their constituents are against it.  Goodbye Mark & John John. 

    • Anonymous says:

      Personal Financial Interest?

      Could that be the reason they support this. It would explain why they are doing something that would ensure they dont get elected next time, if they make a bundle from this they dont need to. Just an idea!

      Just think, there are currently discussions in CNS on FFR delay, FOI breaches, failure to account properly if at all. A perfect environment to make illicit personal profit from your position. It may not be happening of course, but history suggests it is!

    • Anonymous says:

      hopefully goodbye to all sitting mla's……

  28. U Got Verbal Diarrhea says:

    What a load of excrement.  

    I don't live in BT but I sure as hell know that its not the best available option.

    • Anonymous says:

      OK, then, let's put it in East End. Or North Side.  But anyone who argues that the the best solution is keeping it where it is, especially when successive governments over the last 15 years have been unable to deal with the ever-growing problem with the George Town Landfill, is just making a selfish political statement or being very, very ignorant.

      • wayasay says:

        The absolute best place to put this new dump is in the Batabano area of West Bay for the following reasons.

        1.  It would still be on Dart's land so the swap for what will become prime commercial land after the existing dump is cleaned up, would be more equatible than the cheap swampland that is now being exchanged, so it should meet  the value for money test of the FFR.

        2. There will be a shortened route through the new highway that will enhance the delivery of the garbage to this new site as well as reduce the cost of maintaining the fleet of garbage trucks and damage less roads which will need to be repaired.

         3. Proximity to source of garbage from the areas of George Town, Seven Mile Beach and West Bay where 80% of the garbage is created on Island. This would significantly reduce the cost to Government for trucking as they will be responsible for running the dump after it is moved.

        3.The prevailing wing in the Caribbean is from the North East year round so any obnoxious odors will be taken safely out to sea where they will not offend anyone, not even the fish.

        4 The Caribbean currents runs at 3 knots year round past the Cayman Islands, around the tip of Cuba and joins with the Gulf Strean which goes all the way to England. Any lechie from the dump will simply drain into the sea and get carried away by the currents, unlike where it is now, or if it is put in Bodden Town. In either of these cases it will leak into the North Sound, be trapped by the circular currents there and ruin out biggest and most important fish and sealife natural nursery, to say nothing of stingray city.

        5. The damage to the reefs, at the tip of the West Bay penensula, would be far less than the damage caused by the distruction of the whole North Sound, as either of the proposed sites will surely accomplish in a matter of  years through toxic leache.

        Please do not read this and think I am taking a shot at Dart (I like Camana Bay). I am simply trying to put forward a solution that would be the best for the two parties involved, Datr and Government, while having the least objectionable impact on the people of the Cayman Islands. 

      • wayasay says:

        That's the ticket.

        Put it even further to windward so that the whole Island will have to continuiuosl smell it, not only the ones who chose to build next to an existing dump, after the dump was there.

    • Just Sayin' says:

      Patiently awaiting your viable alternative…

    • Anonymous says:

      Sounds like a PPM'er(err..progressives as they are now branding themselves). All talk, no solutions!!

  29. Take A Dump And Whine says:

    No point wasting time on some silly debate. Everyone knows the current location is unsustainable and the chosen new site is the best available option. Quit screwing around and just do it already!

    • Anonymous says:

      Yes Mark, you have to not let these people frighten you. The deal is alredy signed by Dart and the official Government ( Govenor office)

      Should any other group gets in, the first thing they will do is eat their own vomit, by then telling the people they have no choice but to continue with the Dart deal, other wise be sued by him.

      it's all political BTers, they dont want these two men to bring 60 million dollars of development to the district, so they can redicule them for not doing anything for BT.and brainwash you into voting them out.

      Do yourself a favor, ask anyone of them, what plans they have for BT, i bet you all the money in the world they will tell you, "vote us in and we will show you" Bull shit!!!  they have nothing to offer you, but to tear down what the government is trying to do, they are so pathic, it's unreal.

    • Dred says:

      Well Mark from one BTer to another….Does the words ONE AND DONE mean anything to you? This is what you will be experiencing. You are about to be thrown out of office because of your reckless disregard for your fellow BTers.

      I was one of your votes and I am not sure there is enough money in the UDP kitty to buy my vote but you are happy to try.