UK will advise on Dart deal
(CNS): The Cayman Islands governor has indicated that the FCO views the ForCayman Investment Alliance (FCIA) differently from the development of the cruise berthing facilities at the George Town Port and the expansion of Owen Roberts International Airport. Duncan Taylor said that the proposed agreement between the Dart Group and government is not a traditional procurement as it involves swaps of crown assets to further what is largely a private sector development. However, the governor said that during recent meetings with Dart he had indicated that the project should be looked at by the Richard Holmwood, the UK’s economic advisor.
The FCO’s expert tasked with assisting Cayman with the management of its public finances will offer his advice on whether or not the deal offers value for money and complies with the requirements of the Framework for Fiscal Responsibility which is now part of Cayman’s Public Management and Finance Law, Taylor suggested.
Although the islands’ largest investor signed one part of the deal almost one year ago, which paved the way for work to start on the Esterley Tibbetts Highway extension and the imminent closure of the West Bay Road, the full deal has not yet been signed. Despite recent indications that government was ready to sign the full deal, a review of the proposal by a local consultancy company, which was completed sometimein the spring, has never been made public.
The details of the preliminary deal that was signed between Dart, the NRA and the government last December were never voluntarily revealed to the public but were published by CNS when the documents were leaked to North Side MLA Ezzard Miller. Since then, the NRA filed a complaint with the police, which triggered an investigation into the leak.
The governor made his comments regarding the FCIA at a short press briefing at the government office building, where he introduced Dr Peter Hayes, the new overseas territories director, who was on a flying visit to Cayman Thursday after a trip to the Turks and Caicos Islands.
Having taken up the post some four weeks ago, the new senior FCO technocrat said his short stop was to provide him with at least a brief opportunity to see Cayman and meet the people he will be working with to help get the public finances back on track. However, he said that he was not able to comment on the FCIA deal after just a few weeks in the job.
Nevertheless, the governor indicated that the proposed agreement was an area that the FCO’s economic advisor needed to examine.
The entire agreement will not only involve the proposed new hotel on the site of the old Courtyard Marriott but will also include the swapping of the George Town landfill site for land in Bodden Town that Dart has offered to construct a basic lined landfill, where government can then start a new waste-management facility while it caps the old dump.
Although the people campaigning against the proposal to move the landfill to Midland Acres and close the West Bay Road believe that the entire deal does not meet the requirements of the FFR, the governor indicated that the FCO is not clear yet on its position.
Activists have written to Mark Simmonds, the current overseas territories minister, about the issue but so far there has been no indication of the minister’s position on the deal.
In regards to the cruise port project, the UK made clear for many months that it was not in compliance with FFR before putting a stop to the deal on the eve of government’s plans to sign with CHEC. However, the UK is looking at the FCIA differently.
Although the Dart project involves a complex web of land swabs, cash donations and the diversion of future tax revenues, as well as the relocation of the dump and the closure of the West Bay Road, the governor said it was a different kind of proposal to the cruise port and not what would be seen as a regular procurement, hence the need for the advisor to take a closer look.
Related article:
Category: Politics
I have to make comment o dart rocks, rolls and rules cayman. My only comment to the writer is what happens when darts sets the price for eggs, or decides he doesn’t want caymanians to be employ in his organization, or decides your first born bing a Male should be sacrificed to honor his gods or decides he doesn’t want to live and support cayman? What then you smart ass?
Green Hornet, Dart has control now anyway because he own more than 50% of the real estate in the Cayman Islands and the majority of profitable businesses are owned by him or his companies. Do you really believe that he is not able to set the price of eggs or can he not decides which Caymanians he wants to employ or not? This is one smart ass who believes that absolutely no one on this island has as much money or power as the Dart Corporation and if the survival of Cayman depends on him then so be it. There is no way of reversing what has happened now so all we can do is go forward and hope for the best. I cannot see the Dart corporaton pulling out of Cayman remember he is now Caymanian with a substantial amount of his investments here. If you are Caymanian and old enough to remember when Cayman was at one point owned and controlled one Caymanian merchant. Let me what is the difference now?
I don’t believe we should be looking at the possible value of the developed land to dart. That method is not used anywhere for anything. We are just being greedy, ignorant and intensely political because we have nothing else to do and need to blame someone else for our troubles.
It is Dart that is being greedy. And he has the money to do this type of thing and without anti-trust laws we will wake up onemorning and find that we no longer own our country. Some of you will be surprised and dismayed. I will sit back and sadly say " I told you so."
Let's talk business!
Forget all the chatter about the WB road and look at the pure economics.
For Cayman to continue to support its citizens and provide jobs for the civil service then it must receive more and more revenue (income). This incom comes from duties and fees.
Stamp Duty is a major revenue earner for government. Yet, SMB is pretty much built out there is little more they can do to generate long term future income from the land available on SMB.
The only land left is too narrow to build and is not economically viable in its current form thtat is why it has for many years sat empty and become overgrown, littered with garbage and a hang out for druggies and midnight get togethers in the back of the car.
Simply by removing a section of the West Bay Road the future generations of Caymanians will benefit from employment opportunities, but more importantly the government will make a huge amount of money in stamp duty and other related fees off these projects for the next 25 years. Plus, big improvements to road safety and better failities on the two new public beaches.
You don't have to have a high school education to realize that without sufficent income life round here is going to get pretty tough, pretty quick.
If you want to cut the civil service by 20-30%, cut back on all the free handouts from social services then go ahead and keep the road. Nothing will change, the land will still be littered and unsightly for years to come and those people who loose their jobs and have little to look forward to in the future can look at this stretch of road and feel proud that they have caused so many people so much suffering…. perhaps they will feel they proud about that?
What a mess. Like it or not, folks, there is a showdown on the way. We've got a take-no-prisoners developer and a determined group of Caymanians. We are going to see (beginning with the West Bay Road issue) Caymanians being carted off in paddywagons by non-Caymanian police officers. If you imagine things differently then I'd be interested to learn your thoughts. Why the developer won't agree to a compromise and shift the road inland a bit is an indication of his mind set : conquest at any price.
I imagine a lot of hot air.
What a situation we find ourselves in. A developer intent on devouring the country by buying everything he fancies and a soon to be has-been double-dipping politician who has been feasting on the public purse for almost thirty years and is, as is public knowledge, under numerous criminal investigations. Lord help us soon be rid of the pair of them.
Believe me if you have a billionaire wanting to spend money on infrastructure, albeit a good deal for him, you grasp it with both hands in these tough economic times. They are building a new hotel, new roads putting money in a fund to help hard-up caymanians stay in their own homes… What is all the complaining about get real. The more developed the Island becomes the more attractive it will be to other investors and the more opportunities that will open up for Caymanians. Look at Singapore which was a small port town and the opportunities the Singaporean’s have now are amazing.
This is what happens when greed sets in and you want it all. Cayman was doing quite well but no greed set in and the politicians told people that more was needed. Now stop the complaining suck it up and accept more, more is not always good or better. To him how much is given much is required. Open your arms and embrace, an increased population, unemployment, higher cost of living and doing business, loss of tranquility, more loss of way of life, more people to share the pie with as our share become less and eventually we won't even get the crumbs. This is the reality so don't go blaming "Dart" for your own greed, Caymanians opened Pandora's box and now it cannot be closed. We were all warned about the consequences. This is only the begining, give it 4 more years.
Mark my words. There will be violent confrontation between Caymanians and foreigners if any attempt is made to close any part of the West Bay Road. This is not going to end well if the Governor continues to vacillate.
Mark my words nothing is going to happen between foreigners and Caymanians if the West Bay road is closed; all that will happen is that one night Caymanians will go to bed and the next morning they will wake up and see the old West Bay road closed and a new one will replace the old. That will be the end of the story, Caymanians talk a good talk but the men and women of action that could/would stop the closure of the West Bay road are all dead. Change is gonna come but it won't be from Native Caymanians. "Change have already come to Cayman by "caymanians" but not by Native Caymanians.
What pathetic scaremongering. If anyone thinks about getting violent over a little scrubby piece of road they should be in jail for a long long time.
Either way this might not end well. A lot of foreigners will just leave Cayman. At the first sign of violent confrontation, a British warship will appear in the harbour.
In you little scenario, which side will the Dart family be on?
An interesting reaction to my comment ("Mark my words……".). You guys to the right, have you ever fought for anything in your life besides a fatter paycheck? Clearly you are not Caymanians, or if you are most certainly not patriots. Stand up for once in your life. Hitler would have you lot for breakfast!
When will this happen and will there be free food?
You are a confused and misguided individual and as usual you prefer to blame foreigners instead of holding your own countrymen politicians responsible for the country.
Why is that? Are you afraid to stand up to fellow Caymanians?
Dart rocks, roll and rules Cayman. Please Mr. Dart, buy up all George Town make it like Camana Bay, George Town should be for businesses except for those condos along South Church Street. I would be very happy to see the Dart corporation open, their own banks, accounting firm, law firm, supermarket chain, hotels, rental car company, medical center, car dealership, propane (gas)company, shipping company, telephone company, television station, Radio and Media outlets and publications, water, sewage and power company. With all the property that they have I would like to see them build an indoor shopping mall with all the USA major stores that way Caymanians would not have to spend money to go to the USA so much to shop and the money would stay with Dart so that he can re-invest it Cayman, after all he is Caymanian. Lets face it before Dart came to Cayman and invest, Cayman was just another typical island now Cayman is one of the most sophisticated island in the entire Caribbean, just look at Camana Bay. Just my opinion but honestly I would like to see the Dart Corporation own every business in Cayman Island, this way we know that the island would be in the best financial position ever. Dart corporation is very solid and this is what is needed here in Cayman.
To Dart rocks rolls and rules I fear your wishes will soon come true.
I sadly agree, but it is as much to do with years of non application of the Immigration laws and Caymanians being pushed aside in their own community.
Mark these words. You will be crawling on your knees to uncle Dart soon to build you a bigger prison, to house the likes of you.
How is this a Caymanian vs foreigners issue? Get a grip.
Good to hear that in such a "Christian" country. I will raise a glass of fizz at the bar of the new hotel to those still in Northward after the "Battle of the Little Bit of Road"
This is the kind of supid remark that makes investors run for the hills. Ready to fish for tutles again and watch all your men go to sea??
We may not be rich but we are not stupid! If the UK states it’s back to the drawing board then so be it. And if they say this is ok then we will go forward with our fight! It always comes down to the rich and the poor and trust me these poor people will not let the elite dump on us! Fix it where it is or just buy all the land in BT!
Concentration risk must be a significant concern to the UK in the case of the Dart Group and the ForCayman Investment Alliance.
I am sure that the UK govt would never allow one person/Company to own 25% of the land and 50% of the income generating resources of their country or capital.
It would be hypocritical for the UK to endorse such a vulnerable business model for Cayman, especially since every economic analysis and advice they provide insists on economic diversification, not economic concentration in the hands of a single entity.
We can all recall what happened to the Antiguan economy when Sir Allen Stanford's investments ceased operating in that country. Literally over night their economy and government came to a grinding halt.
It is a case of national security, economic prudence and an aim to minimise corruption not to allow one group to have too much land, power and influence especially when we are trading crown land as a part of the deal which does not provide value for money for Cayman.
UK, you have the legal and moral authority to stop this deal which is a very one sided, bad deal for Cayman.
This is why I love the USA so much and honest wealthy Americans who are not afraid to pay their equaly share of taxes; long live the USA and honest, honourable men and women like Warren Buffet who are always willing to pay the government their rightful dues. Thank God for the re-election of such a storng leader like President Obama who is all too willing to do the right thing.
Is there a rogue democrat election bot on the loose in Cayman? I like President O. as much as anyone, but this post has nothing to do with the thread. Unless the poster wants Cayman to try to become the 52nd state.
A few foolish people in the Cayman Islands really believe that this island can survive without the UK. Let me remind those who believe this that we cannot, firstly the two pillars of the Caymanian economy are the financial industry and tourism and most of our traffic and business comes from the USA and to a lesser extent Europe I believe not by design but because of distance. Just imagine what will happen to Cayman if the USAshould fall over the financial cliff? Good ole UK will have to come to the rescue.
Are we so foolish to believe that should the world's economy decline further that the Cayman Islands will be viable and able to survive on its own or even with th help of Dart? think again. So when you go thinking that the UK is trying to destroy Cayman think for a moment how much it would cost to provide protection for this country, the cost to maintain embassies throughout the world and all the other services that the UK provides to these islands free of charge. I am not aware of anything that that we pay to the UK but I could be entirely wrong on this. Maybe all Caymanians should consider for one minute the benefits that we have under the UK and what we would have under independence and what will happen to this tax free status that we so like to brag about, will international investor find us to be so attractive?
For those of us who believe that we can do without the UK, just try it and many of days we will curse the day and dam the hour. The world has change and so much since 911 so don't believe that we will be accepted so freely into the few counties that we once migrated to in the 40s, 50s and 60s. Think again, this country will be as the young people would say one big hot mess, are we all prepared for this one big hot mess?
Mr. Dart's assorted companies have given more to this island than the UK ever has. They are better financed too. That likely un-nerves the UK. Look to the successful economies the Middle East (Abu Dhabi) where rich kingdoms with outside sources of funding build infrastructure and make positive change happen. The UK is more BROKE than the US and neither "government" will save us. That will become blindingly apparent in a few years. Let the privateers with fiscal prudence and courage go where the bloated and broken government structures can't and stop wallowing about what you don't understand. This island would be a royal mess today without they infrastruxcture and spending that just a handful of private individuals have brought here. The UK can take absolutely NO CREDIT for what has happened here over the past few years. It's all Caymanians working together with Investors. Our credit rating might actually go UP if we left the UK and were backed by private money.
Give it a go. I do not think that the UK will stop you.
It just takes someone to step up and lead your country to the Independence you crave.
The way that you have expressed yourself and your desire to go with the Independent money, you should be the one to initiate it and not hide behind comments.
Where are your facts coming from? 25% seems over the top!
Dart certainly owns close to 25% of the Seven Mile Beach strip – our economic (tourism and these days also financial) heart.
I am personally glad that there appears to be finally some sort of oversight or some sort of interested in regards to what is going on in Cayman. At the very least, I hope that it is a sign for any present and future politician that they can't just do whatever the hell they want without any consideration for the law, the process and the regulations.
I seriously hope that it is not too late and that we can get some credibility back to what was once a beautiful country which has been completely destroyed by a mad man and his spineless, hand-out seeking followers.
When this is all approved, follow the money trail….
Please FCO approve the for Cayman Alliance deal with Dart. As Caymanians believe Dart is the solution to Cayman's problem, please give them what they so desparetly want. However, after the ink is dried on the deal please turn around and impose property taxes on all properties that is value over $250,000.00 and if the taxes remain unpaid calculate daily interest rates (similar to the bank) and after six months of default start proceedings for government to claim the properties. There you will be able to kill two birds with one stone. Give to Peter and render to Ceaser.
Try and cut down on the vodka, Ivan, me old mate. And keep up with those English classes. This is far more coherent than your last post, as I recall.
… said the person who doesn't own any property worth more than $250,000
Open request to Mr. Simmons: while you are advising on the FCIA issues, can you ask the Premier to advise you on what qualifies Richard Parchment to be a Senior Political Advisor and to quantify on what basis the CI Government is paying the hefty salary to a fast food manager!!!!!
Let me help you on that…
Like Fast Food everything that is produced by this government is not healthy for you and is overpriced.
The way the food is dispensed also aids us in understanding the business model. The people operate like the inside customers where we stand in line waiting for scraps while investors use the drive thru.
As you can see the parking lot offers limited parking for us to get the product and often for us to get in we have to bum rides with others BUT the drive thru is seemingly endless and the cars (investors) always seem to have ease of access.
So my analogy of the situation is this. Mr Parchment with his knowledge of the fast food business is THEE brains behind the operation and is their chief advisor as he and only he knows what its like to ship out garbage and charge and arm and a leg for it.
Hope this helps….
I thought he was the tea boy!
Your comment is very correct!
Why now ….surely you missed the point old chap.
Fast managers have tremendous experience making fat boys even fatter, thereby providing lets say a highly valuable service to one honourable big man.
Cherio
The deal seems lopsided – we are giving more than we receive. I actually trust the Darts more than Government to do a nice job, and appreciate the parks and other good things they have done here, but our Premier is not known for his negotiating skills, and he should have driven a harder bargain. The Darts need to ensure that a BT facility would be more than just another dump, with an uncertain future, under the same management as the current one – (Heads Up, DoEH – You are doing a bad job!) I'd much rather see the Dart's take over management of the current dump and turn THAT into an actual Waste Management Facility that is not a nuisance to the community it adjoins. Sending the problem to a poorer working class neighborhood so the elite Camana Bay residents don't have to see it is just plain wrong.
England is not much better with money they just hired a Canadian , mark carney , to help out with their financial problems . i am not sure they know too much about value for money.
And they didn’t even insist on a work permit so they could tghrow him out if he causes any problems either – no idea how to run a civil service.
Governor for the Bank of England is the most important non-elected post in the country. It is a great honour to Canada to have Mark Carney invited. Wouldn't it be more positive to encourage young Caymanians to aim for such a goal?
Luckily the Brits don't have to be sorry worried about a nightmare applicant with a joke CV and a history of disappointed previous employers causing trouble by screaming "I am suitably qualified".
"However, the governor said that during recent meetings with Dart he had indicated that the project should be looked at by the Richard Holmwood, the UK’s economic advisor." LOL… I CAN SEE DART IN SHOCKING DISBELIEF ! ECONOMIC ADVISOR?!!!
So if the UK can identify that the deal is of good value, will the nay Sayers and whiners back down?
I guarantee not!
The question will always be this until it is fully revealed….
What do we get and what does he get…..
When things are kept from you and "people" who you put ingovernment tell you one thing and you are constantly findingout other things they forgot to tell you you tend to be worried about what has really transpired. This is where we are all at.
Also we do not want ANYONE to get control of our roads. Especially when there is no need for it and the same goes for our DUMP. There is no need to MOVE THE DUMP to BT when it can be mitigated where it is. However Mr Dart wants to play hardball by saying I WILL ASSIST BUT ONLY IF……XXXXXX. Sorry we are not for sale. You want the issue resolved fix it wheer it is.Thee end
They will just start saying that Dart has the UK in his pocket, or that the UK is plotting to steal Cayman away from it's rightfull owners, you know the ones who sold it…
Money talks and the UK is broke. They will bow, bend or break once Dart flashes his checkbook.
Lets see if Mac digs his heels in ; on this one.
It is very telling that the independent report commissioned by the Government has not been made public.
It obviously does NOT support the 'For Cayman Alliance' deal – otherwise it would have been published
How could any objective party not come to this conclusion.
Dear FCO
Hopefully you will not be swayed by people such as the one who posted above, who think they represent the vast majority.
Regardless of who wants what, please just make sure these things are done the right way, using the proper processes and without any further wastage of the public purse or damage to the environment. Provided this is done, I will accept any outcome, even if its not the one I personally want.
Beautifully put.
All of you need to get it through you thick skulls that these guys don't give %^&^ what you think they are going to do what they feel is best…
Hopefully England will see that the land swap has ABSOLUTELY NO VALUE to the public, as we are swapping out 4,000 ft of beach front land worth over a hundred million dollars for swamp land to build a wate management facility. Its like trading in your benz for a nissan sunny. Lets not forget the 50% of tax revenue thats thrown in.
The road isn't beachfront. Dart already owns the beachfront land between the road and the water north of the public beach.
Which is too narrow to build on unless the road get moved as any fule no ………….
What on God's earth is a fule? Oh right, I remember, that's someone who woted for the UDP.
How do you not understand that as soon as the road is closed and REMOVED, that it ALL BECOMES BEACHFRONT!!!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!
Blind as a!!!! Dumb as a!!!!
Nimwit….
God how you Dart lovers never open your damn eyes….
Not so – the beachland is too shallow for development so does not have the worth you are implying. By eliminating the road the parcels become more than capable of development and now have a great worth.
If we had people of vision within Government they would have realised years ago that there was an opportunity for Govt. to move West Bay Road in that area and charge the landowners a pretty penny for the land concerned, thereby getting money from the sale of the road land and all the attendant income that would accrue from the development of the land that the road move would have allowed.
Desmond Webster tried to do it many years ago & received planning permission but the project did not proceed.
The Dart people saw an opportunity and made it happen – the essence of what our free economy is supposed to be about and when an economy grows all people benefit in one way or another.
It is unfortunate that there are so many people who cannot accept change of any type – it's just a stretch of road for goodness sake!
It's not just a stretch of road. It is several rights of way to our beach. We will not be allowed to access the beach at these points along that part of West Bay Road after it is GIVEN to Mr. Dart. Central Tenders Committee should be involved in all disposal of government assets. As usual, they have been bypassed by the UDP government.
Come on now…. lets get it straight
closing a road and vesting land in adjacent landowners — covered by Roads Law
divesting of government land assets — covered by Governors vesting of lands law
procurement — covered by CTC.
It doesn’t matter if it went to CTC as it’s full of UDP rubber stampers.
… thank you gentleman from central tenders for trying to get your self-important department into the mix.
It is not "just a stretch of road". It is a stretch of road whose relocation will TRIPLE, IF NOT QUADRUPLE THE VALUE OF DART'S LAND because it will now BECOME VERY DEEP and VERY DEVELOPABLE BEACHFRONT LAND and not a severed property with a thin strip of beachfront. Just to give an idea of what kind of figures we are talking about the Marriott Courtyard was valued at around US$15million without the West Bay road being moved. Tripling or quadrupling that when the road is moved equals US$45-US$60million. Now apply that math to the rest of the land going north of the Marriott Courtyard up to Yacht Drive and you will see that this part of the FCIA has got to be the most lopsided real estate swap in history! if you want to question my figures, go and ask the Kirkconnells what they have been offered for the Royal Palms site, which is a good example of deep beachfront land.
Unfortunately, the deal gets even worse when you figure out the INCREASE IN VALUE of DART'S CAMANA BAY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES if the DUMP IS RELOCATED. DART bought the Camana Bay parcels of land at prices that reflected their proximity to the GT dump in its current location. If the GT dump is moved, the Camana Bay residential properties will become far more valuable and who will benefit from that? Us? No, only DART!
To add insult to injury, if the GT dump is relocated we will be exposed to more danger on our roads due to the dump trucks that will now have to haul from West Bay and George Town all the way to Bodden Town!
Oh, I forgot to mention the 50% of hotel tax that will not only hurt government revenues, but give a billionaire developer an unfair advantage in the hotel business at a time when increased fees are already making it nearly impossible for smaller developers.
Speaking of taxes, anyone have an idea of how much money Mr. Dart saves on an annual basis by being a citizen of The Cayman Islands and not having to pay taxes in the U.S.A? I somehow don't think that anyone in Mr. Dart's PR department want's the public to know. If those figures were to be made public(hmmm…), I don't think there would be many who would agree to giving Mr. Dart ANY CONCESSIONS.
This is a good example of the Green eyed monster in full bloom People who lack the ability to find success hate to see other people excel….
Maybe we should start inspecting those truck-hoopties for once. All of them but a handfull would be off the roads and junk trucks in North America – 100% would be off the road in Europe
Its not change that we cannot accept – its the stench off this deal that upsets us most and the fact that a few think that teh rest of us can be taken for fools. it did'nt work on the chinese deal and it ain't going to workon this one. Shetty just got lucky.
I agree with you.
However I disagree on the Shetty comment. There is little to object to about the Shetty deal. The benefits far outweigh the costs.
You can't object to EVERYTHING. When you object to everything it takes away from your objections which have real merit (such as to the For Cayman Alliance)
Nice try at a comment Dart group in your attempt to continue to fool the Caymanian people with your "Foolaid"!
Dart you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time!
But in your attempt to fool the Caymanian people you are exposing your intent:
"…was an opportunity for Govt. to move West Bay Road in that area and charge the landowners a pretty penny for the land concerned, thereby getting money from the sale of the road land and all the attendant income that would accrue from the development of the land that the road move would have allowed".
Now Dart wants the land for free at our expense forever, while Dart flies in his jet or helicopter we will be stuck every morning and afternoon in traffic jams.
Caymanian people tell the FCO – STOP DART.
What should have happened is quite the opposite!
West Bay Road should have been moved closer to the beach (as a 25 mph avenue with speed bumps etc plus the busier inland road) and all the hotels been made to go on the inland side of the road so that 7 Mile Beach could remain for everyone is Cayman – and not just those wealthy enough to own a condo there.
South Beach in Miami, Rio, Cote d'Azur – many places around the world where sensible balanced development has happened have preserved thier coastline and best beaches for everyone to enjoy. And built around them in a way that allows high quality developments / top class hotels/condos to be built on the other side of the road, still enjoying the views and location on the beach. And trust me far more expensive quality hotels line these coastlines with largely more sophisticated visitors.
I see cruiseship tourists on a regular basis wondering down West Bay Road searching high and low for 7 Mile Beach. But it can't be found amongst all the concrete and condos!
No point in crying over spilt milk – however Dart rep above – the point is that we should not be moving in the direction you suggest! This would be an unfortunate step in the wrong direction. We need to keep the last accessible stretch of 7MB that we have ACCESSIBLE and for us ALL.
No one promised you when you bought the land the road would getmoved. And if they did – that was CORRUPTION.
You are so stupid it aint funny. Beach land sells for a gazillion times what interior land sells for less the swamp land he is offering in exchange.
And the fact that he is building us a road he already had to build.
And let's rephrase that "waste management facility" to what it really is A DUMP.
I would say it's like trading in a 2013 Ferrari for a 1990 Sunny.
I tell you what, as a business I would love to do business with the UDP government.
If he were just building a road to access his land, would he build a 4 lane highway, and extend it to West Bay, or simply build a simple two lane at considerably less cost? Or put it another way, say you don't give him the West Bay Road – going to be happy when he puts gates across that new road to West Bay and only lets in residents of his new development, and everyone else has to queue on the old West Bay Road every rush hour? But that would be fair, right, since its his land and he paid for the road? And he wouldnt need to swap anything for that. And as for "losing the view" on the shut section of WB Road, how about he just builds a 10ft high fence along his beachfront proprty so you can't see the sea anyway. Leave it that way for a couple of years, and there would be no bitching about losing the view when the road is shut. Same deal – he already owns the land and can do exactly that if he wants! And that's before we start on continuing to breathe in the stink from the old dump. Sure the man gets benefits from this deal, but we do too, and a lot of what is being complained about would have been far more convincing when the original owners sold the land to Stan Thomas. If I were you I would be far more worried about the tax concessions.
Starting the slow clap.
The truth, I hope the Governor is ready to support Caymanians who are out of job and cannot put food on table fro their families. Those people do not care, they are making big wages and can pay their bills. I cannot wait for next year to come, so all the Caymanians who would like to have change will get a smack across the face.
Ready posts llike this and seeing so many thumbs up proves that people have no idea what the deal includes, since when is West Bay road beachfront land.
It seems you do not know either….
You probably should do a little research yourself……
Snce you knoe so much about the For Dart deal then tell us what were the contents of the independent report that has not yet been made public.
11;51
You are incorrect with saying we are swapping 4,000 ft. of beach property. The said, 4000 ft of beach property is not ours in the first place. The beach property is belongs to Mr Dart.
What you guys are doing, is calculating this man's projected value once he acquire the 50 ft wide road and joins it with his beach property, which is ridiculously absurd.
The road parcel cannot be valued with the asumption that when joined with the ajoining beach property will tribble the value of the road property.
The same goes, when you bought your property to build your home on, the real estate agent did not value it according to that castle he would assume you were going to build…which would cost 3/4 million dollars plus the land which he would then tell you,you had to pay for the property..this would be absurd.
Since this is the way you all are calculating Dart's property, then lets calculate what the public would gain… 6.9 acres of property added to our world famous public beach…developed with all amenities by Mr. Dart,..Real eastate agent could assume this would worth 400 million dollars.
The 100 + acres of property for a waste facility, when Mr. Dart developes it, and the future service it will provide to the country…real estate value… I would assume to be around 500 million dollars.
A 2-1/2 miles of 4 lane highway, built for the Cayman public to use at all time.. land given by Mr. Dart and built by Mr. Dart. Lets get our real estate agents to value this high way.
Let's be fair guys, at the same time we are calculating Mr. Dart's business deals, lets calculate the public's gain.
Most of us know why you dont agree with these swaps, is becaue the Premier sits in that seat, which will make him more famous, once the economy takes off, due to these deals. Which is not what you want to see happen.
What you are saying to the 55 + thousand people..who need these infrastructures to boost our economy. "we are going to kill all economic deals made by this administration"
Be real guys, if you want to run for public office, do it on your own strength and good common sense.
NO. WRONG.
He does not own the 4,000 ft of beach front. He owns only a portion of it. Part of this 4,000 ft is the SM Public Beach which is Cayman Islands owned and not Mr Dart. He owns the piece as I understand it from the restaurant to the hotel.
So it is not COMPLETELY wrong the calculation. To me and most Caymanians that piece of land is PRICELESS….
So go take whatever gift he or Mr Bush is granting you and go about your business cause we all know you are bought and paid for one way or another.
Don’t be silly. Dart already owns that beach and can develop it right now. What we are swapping is 4000 feet of ROAD!! Get facts correct please if you are going to post.
Wrong.He owns a portion of it. Not all of it. He does not own the Public Beach which is part of what he is trying to acquire.
Dart is not trying to acquire the beach. Dart has offered to improve it and give it to Government!
This is an interesting comment because it's pays no value to the risk of capital. All comments like these and those who agree with them fail to understand that there has to be payback for taking risk. It's so fitting in our times where money has been cheap and easy for too many, for too long. You can't price your land based on what it COULD be. What if the road was zoned for a 100 story tower? Would you charge more for it? You still need to "build" the tower. Too many local folks fail to understand that the Sandbox (the Cayman Islands) is valuable BECAUSE men like Mr. Dart put in all these services. What was beachfront worth in the 1930's? The land is valuable BECAUSE of the investment. Without the investment we are on just another worthless sandspit in theocean, of which there are thousands. Once the money comes and builds roads and ports and shops and cities and airports and waste-management facilities and dumps and then caps and remediates dumps THEN all of a sudden everyone is a real estate genius and can see ways to stick-it to the businessman who made it all possible in the first place. Human greed and the stupidity it engenders – never ceases to amaze me. If I were Mr. Dart I would have left my Billions (none of which were made in this economy) in the bank. If Mr. Dart owned every important business on this island he'd still make more in his other business. Most people can't get their head around numbers and will always feel like they have been played. Then there are the local buiness elite who got here first and are being batted around like pawns (purely by accident because DART is so big) but they don't like it so they fight what they don't like. Not one individual or family on this Isalnd has done more for the island than the DART group in the last 10 years, but most folks are too jealous, proud or ignorant to see it. It makes my a bit sad for stupidity of those people. I think we need another round of status grants to get folks off their high, do nothing, labor-brokering horses.
Well – now Caymanians will need to go to the FCO to beg.
Congrats the FCo has taken over.
The FCO has not taken over, they are hopefully going to offer a more objective eye to the situation. Which is loooooong overdue and much needed.
And I F I had to beg I'd rather beg from the UK than the other option.
You are so correct we will now be begging Dart for permision to even sneeze!
You are congratulating yourselves for selling yourselves out!
Instead of begging, why don't you get an education, the government and plenty of companies give huge scolarships to help as long you actually want to work hard.
Then when you finish, enter the job system at the bottom, don't immediately apply for a manger job with a BA, all that will happen is you won't get the job and you'll come on to this board complaining about Caymanians not getting jobs. In the real world you start at the bottom, show your worth and work your way up the ladder.
I worked as a binman and office cleaner to pay for university, joined a law firm in the post room, went to night school to get my law degree, then did my articles, after many a year I'm now a partner
I always find it amusing when Caymanians tell me I had it easy.
Congrats Partner that is what you had to do in your country of origin maybe that is not the way that Cayman was structured, most Caymanians found jobs in the hospitality industry until the financial industry came and offered them wonderful incentives because it was not as easy as it is now to get work permits. It is people like you that have spread the myth about Caymanians wanting to start from the top that is ruining this country. It will be a sad day when all of us in Cayman will have to start from the bottom again, Partner or not. If it has happened in Argentina don't think that I cannot and will not happen here.
Please note that the George Town DUMP, is not now, and never has been and never will be a “Landfill”.
It is a “Dump” in every sense of the word.
Putting “Lipstick on a pig” doesn’t change the fact that it is a pig.
Please also note that the facility in BT is also going to be nothing more than another DUMP. No Waste to Energy or other recycling initiatives unless the government pay for it… and we know they'd rather spend their money on churches and travel, rather than anything involving the environment.
Good news to see the UK getting so involved in our activities. Hopefully they will do the right thing where our politicians seem unwilling or unable.
Thank you UK.
10;56
Don't you get too assured that the UK is stopping any development in Cayman. The UK government are extremly smart people.
They themselves are inviting the chinese to come to the UK to invest billions of pounds. They have given up 3,000 hectares of their green belt to developers to construct 75,000 homes. They are estimating to build 170,000 home will be built across England country side.
The UK people are no fools, they see where they can boost their economy by making sacrificies in these hard austair times, while we are here playing politics.
Let me ask you all one simple question.."do you all, really think, that the UK is going to sit by and let people like you, destroy the Cayman Islands opportunities to move forward.??? to sit and let the lack of development bring us down, and then she will have to pump millions of pounds in this Cayman Islands to keep us from rioting???? use your common sense if you have any.
The UK is just postering, what they do best ..Deplomacy, my friend, is the norm in the UK.
We will move forward with her blessings I can promiss you that. give up the politics and you will see clearly now, the rain is gone! have a nice day!
Why are they looking at it differently?
It has not been tendered. End of discussion.
I suspect DART is lobbying Governor for an exemption to FFR and the FCO will just bless it.
The WB protesters have shown their hand by pointing out the illegality of deal.
Are you people slow, only thing that Cayman is paying for gets tendered..what are the paying for here, Dart is the only one putting out money…I guess Cayman should put out a tender to see who's willing to give us the most money..
Whether it is several hundred million dollars or several hundred million dollars worth of land, WE ARE STILL PAYING!!!!
No, you are slow, the law says that disposal of government assets should go through the Central Tenders Committee, not just things that government pays for. It is no different than Cayman Airways selling a plane or the Tower Building being demolished for scrap metal. The problem with the UDP is that they don't want anything significant to go through CTC because it will be a fair and unbiased process.
What do you call giving away crown land you boob?!
There is only one bidder in this case so you cannot go to tender. That’s why you need independent oversight.
Finally, some oversight in Governments local dealings. This oversight will reveal whether any involvement by investors is in Caymans best interest or not, something that the UDP government seems to have lost sight of. It is also a reminder that the UK with its representative here in the Governor does have a say in how Cayman will invest in large capital projects for the future ,a welcome sign.
If you believe the UK and FCO will look out for our best interests I got a bridge to sell you. Folks, think further than next May please.
I can see trouble on the way if Dart gets away with this.
Trouble is already herey friend. It’s got it’s arms around us now
Do we take up arms against the arms around us?
You are correct. It’s called the FCO!!
Away with what??…the company wants to inject $100,000,000 per year for next decade!!….are you guys so blind by the politics of this that you really cannot see the facts?
You really don't understand what I meant, did you?Are you so blinded by money that you cannot see what this character Dart is up to? Youcan't see how in the future he will eventually influence the vote to the extent that he will control the legislature? Come out of your little shell my friend and start thinking.
Can I ask you a simple question…..?
What if the guy came up to you and said….I will give you 1 million dollars a year for the next 5 years for your wife and two kids would you do it?
Think carefully because this is no different. He is not GIVING US THE MONEY he is taking assets in return. This is not a charity here this is a BUSINESS and what DART does is in DART'S best BUSINESS INTEREST.
You guys look at him like he is some sort of philantropist and we are his next project here to make our world the dream we all hoped for. NO he is here to make money and lots of it.
Do you understand the concept of painting oneself into a corner? Ask Argentina how they did just that. This is what this man does he gobbles up assets until he has some sort of control and he uses this control to gain a stronger footing.
I venture to say that right now, there is no one in the Cayman Islands with more to loose than Dart. He has invested over a Billion here and it will be a very long time (if ever) that he will make his money back.
It makes me worried that one man owns so much here, but if his businesses succeed then the Cayman Islands and its people also benefit.
Dart is not here stealing anything, he is investing in things like land, buildings etc. He cannot move them from here. This is not paper investment althoughsupposedly he is a paper Caymanian.
It seems a few hot headed radicals are hell bent on destroying this island. Let the man invest, he is not trying to buy your wife.
Understand this one thing, the Dart Family XXXX have the money to buy out everyone's interest in Cayman and rule their one country. Native Caymanians (I say native Caymanians because we have no where else to run when the going gets tough) mark THESE words, GRAND CAYMAN SHALL BE AN INDEPENDENT ISLAND BY 2032.
I am not one to sit around and believe that either the UK or Dart has the best interest of Cayman at heart. Far from it. here's why I saw this; Neither the Dart Family nor the UK will has ever came to the local native populas to communicate one on one with us. It has always been done thru 3rd parties (Dart foundation, Dart Reality, DECCO, Atwater Consultants, Cline and his UDP partners, the Premier, the Governor and the lists goes on). Why don't the FCO and Ken Dart and family host a meeting with us the Locals and obtain our feed back. The politicians do not represent us in this case. We already see who they reprresent and by May 2013 many of them will be in HM Northward.
Last but not least, please mister FCO men, for God sake and for the sake of us who have owned businesses on the West Bay road for decades please consider the death blow you will give us if any part of that road is closed. Also look at the BIG picture of the Dart Development; the Darts want that road closed so that people will be forced to drive by his businesses, thereby killing the small mom and pop businesses that currently operate on the West Bay Road.
Dear FCO,
The "activists" are a tiny but extremely vocal minority. They do not represent the vast majority of the resident population who simply want the DART deal done and things to move forward (and the dump to go to its planned new home).
Dear FCO
This guy is a tiny but extremely vocal minority who should keep his trap shut and let you do your job.
Dear FCO,
Please do not take this simple minded person opinion as anything sincere as he is a UDP representative and that in of itself means his forecast numbers are not worth the ink they are drafted in. This same party believed they had the MAJORITY at the OMOV and was overun by supporters.
So take him/her with a grain of salt they are only speaking because their fridge needs replacing.
As the poster, I can confirm I have never voted UDP in my life. I just think the hotel sounds great, the dump need moving and a tiny trip of road is not that important.
Lie
speak for yourself
I and most people I know think the Dart deal stinks