CoP cleared on use of force
(CNS): Police Commissioner David Baines has been cleared of any wrongdoing in connection with his use of force during the apprehension of suspected armed jewel thieves following a New Year’s Day heist in downtown George Town. During the chase of the suspects Baines, who was coincidentally on the scene, smashed his own car into the getaway vehicle they were using. When the men got out of the crashed car and fled on foot, Baines continued his pursuit still in his SUV and ran into and over one of the suspects. Jonathan Ramoon sustained a number of serious injuries, including breaking his legs, hip and arm as well as internal injuries, and is still in a wheelchair. The senior officer who conducted an internal RCIPS investigation into incident and the force used has never been named.
In a statement released Thursday morning, the RCIPS said that the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (ODPP) had told police that “no criminal conduct was revealed or disciplinary actions warranted” against Baines in relation to his actions on 1 January “during the detention and arrest of the offenders involved in the armed robbery at the Diamonds International jewellery store in George Town.”
Governor Helen Kilpatrick has also reportedly reviewed the ODPP’s report, and has indicated that she now considers the matter in relation to the commissioner closed.
All three men in the case are on remand at HMP Northward and have not yet answered the charges as legal arguments regarding the allegations continue.
Category: Crime
Why don't we just let the cops shoot to death, or tazer suspects?
Why don't we allow all suspects to be ill-treated?
Oh, yes, because people are innocent until proven guilty.
What if the cops run over the wrong person? What if someone has been forced to go along with the perpetrators under duress. What if the suspect has mental health problems that would result in an aqcuittal in court? What if the circumstances of the crime were more confusing and the cops couldn't be certain who they were chasing and crushing? What if it was you and you did something rash and stupid that you instalntly regretted?
What if someone had kidnapped your wife and under threat of her death, forced you to go and rob a bank, or threaten a judge, as examples. You could be crippled, trying to save your wife's life. The person under duress would be found utterly not guilty…but could have been crushed to death by those macho morons on here calling for more police force!
What if the crime was far more petty – theft of a magazine from a shop by a big, adult-looking 14-year old child? Your child. Child flees, cops crush to death. Fair? The result in court would likely be a first time misdemeanour charge for the child and maybe community service. Would that criminal deserve to be hideously disabled for the rest of their young life, placing them in lifelong pain and putting their family into lifelong debt paying for their treatment?
What if a young person (so legally not an adult), with learning disabilities, or mental problems was forced to go along with the perpetrators (who could use an extra pair of hands and a scapegoat)? Crush him to death too? Very humane Cayman.
Can everyone please try and think arguments through fully, rationally and from all angles before exposing your lack of thought and woefully, worryingly inadequate cerebral processes.
As someone else said earlier, it is a bad bad precedent.
it looks like you watch too many movies
Well he's big enough o clear himself ain't he? appeal to ceasar about ceasar!
A word of advice, do what senior cops do and let the juniors do the dirty work to avoid embarassment and loss of respect and aristocratic status, you're next to the governor man!
No issues here with this situation However when the RCIPS were told by the business owner of Reflections Food for less about a certain suspect in relation to a very serious corruption issue involving a ex senior police officer's suspected involvement in aleast 2 robberies of Reflection. Niether his complaint nor robbery were taken serious nor investigated properly and the suspects were never arrested. What comes around goes around . Chevy Blazer Justice!!!!!
Commissioner was the one that said no one is above the Law so please someone show me where in the Cayman lslands Law says he was allowed to do what he did, or is the laws here only for Caymanians because only Caymanian officers are doing wrong and getting punished but the English gets promoted or transferred.
Let's hope this sort of behaviour does not encourage the rest of the force thinking that they can go around using excessive force and mutilating Caymanian kids. The internal investigation I believe was not fair. Again why was wasn't Welcome given a fair chance also. Also a trained Officer are usually trained in combat to handle all sorts of situation. I can't understand why he was not man enough to jump of car and man handle the individual as the other citizens had done so with the other two rather than using an object to destroy a person's legs.
errr 08.47- they had guns? So it would be ok for them to shoot an unarmed man? And none of us know what they found in the investigation, so you cannot actually call it unfair-you don't know if it was or not and neither do I.
I HOPE THAT WHEN THE LAWYERS SUE HIM
All you well wishers help pay the bill. I understand this young man is ruin for life. I am all about arresting the criminal but not running over offenders running away from a crime. BAD BAD Precident.
Bad bad spelling and attitude.
Is there a reasonable prospect of conviction – yes, if the tribunal of fact decides that excessive force was used to apprehend the suspect.
Is it in the public interest to prosecute? yes – clearly the police should be held accountable when they act without lawful authority or unlawfully.
No reasonable prosecutor could have come to any other decision – I hope someone has the strength of character to JR this decision. Sounds like a job for PP.
A police force that polices itself… scary
There was never going to be any other outcome. It was an internal investigation not an independent investigation.
An internal investigation by the subordinates of the subject of the investigation. [Sigh]. Brits are all about good governance and transparency until it comes to one of their own. Then they want to be in a position to ensure that they have the result they want. That's why the Anti-Corruption Commission is not independent as well.
Just think yourselves lucky it was even a subordinate of the officer concerned. In one recent Met internal investigation it has been discovered that a senior officer investigated themselves and, not surprisingly, found they had done nothing wrong. Three months later that same officer was able to quietly retire with a full pension and a clean record. Welcome to policing UK style!
I have no personal issue with Baines as I do not know him. However for transparency and fairness this investigation should have included a team made up of a senior police, member of the legal fraternity and a civilian in good standing. Reason being, only those who think a person whether criminal or not has no rights could believe that an officer would find his boss guilty of any wrong doing! Can you believe that officer would have kept his job if his finding was otherwise? I only hope that there will be the same "fairness" to junior officers when they are accused of a wrong doing. Currently, officers are suspended while the matter is investigated. The rules must be the same!
This could be setting a bad precedent.
Let's hope these praises don't come back to bite us in the butt.
E.g. Was Ramoon threatening Baines at the time? Was he trying to run away on foot? Was he armed or unarmed at the time?
Is the RCIPS now free to mow down any and every person that decides to make a run for it? E.g. The rebellious 16 year old girlfriend that springs from the passenger side of her criminal, adult boyfriend's car during a police stop and search?
Not to mention the glaring absence of transparency in this "investigation" – regardless of the circumstances at hand.
I am no fan of Ramoon, for my own personal reasons, however issues like these must be considered without personalities coming into play.
I think the right decision has been made, but I have to ask WHY did they persecute Rabe Welcome when his situation was no different? Even at the Court of Appeal they were still trying to get a pound of his flesh for stoppiing a bully in his tracks. I hope Rabe is compensated and ordinary officers are treated fairly in the future.
Rabe’s story was very different. Didn’t he pick the fight!?
Thank you Mr. Baines, if you have to do it all over again. This is coming from a 5 generation Caymanian.
I agree with you but why does it matter in respect to this if you are a 5th generation Caymanian?
Is a 5 generation Caymanian more Caymanian than a lesser number? Why is this even relevant to your opinion?
Yes. It is called Generational Chauvanism, an exaggerated and belligerent belief in superiority over people whose ancestors arrived later.
Heeeeere weeeee goooo againnnnnnn!
Because it means there is a fair chance the person can give three thumbs up?
I am the mother of a 1st generation Caymanian child and I would like to say congrats too!
Good the review was done and good he was cleared. I do not think any jury would have convicted him anyway..
Good job, I hope this is a lesson to all robbers.
Good. XXXX We've got bigger issues to worry about than this incident. I'm glad the CoP was cleared and can get on with his work
This is great news.
Congratulation Commissioner Baines!
surprise surprise
What a waste of our money? Was anyone expecting a different outcome? this man has more teflon than Bill Clinton!
Good for him, police should be allowed to use whatever force is needed to stop criminals in thier tracks..Hopefully other officers under him will take an example from this. I am quite sure that the officers who would get involved when off duty are few and far in between. Some even when they are on duty do nothing to fight crime.
While the actions taken in this particular case were justified, we have to guard against giving the police unlimited powers, which is a very dangerous approach historically.
You are correct. When you use the word necessary! This was not necessary. I do not condone criminal behavior but if our law enforcers become lawless and we excuse it because they captured a criminal then God help our society. There will be one rule for top cops another for constables and surely another for us the public! I lived I. The UK and because my friends and I shopped one day at Harrods during their sales, one of the most expensive stores in London, we were stopped as we left. Right there in the middle of the street the officers sought to embarrass us. Asked us for our receipts. Pulled our underwear out if the bags, held them up for all to see and even wondered out loud how we could afford to shop there. It was humiliating! The complaint got nowhere. My point is they knew they could get away with it so they did it. Imagine if our cops feel they have the right to do as they please? I will support officers who use reasonable and necessary force but not those who are arrogant and feel they are above the law. XXXXX
surprise surprise* sarcastically applauds*