Immigration to collect on 36K
(CNS): The premier has now confirmed that his expat tax will not kick in until foreign workers are earning $36,000 per year but it will start at 10% on earnings of that level and above and will not be incremental. He also revealed that the immigration department will collect what he calls "a community enhancement fee" with the help of new technology and it will not require any major investment to bring in the new source of revenue. McKeeva Bush revealed that collection would begin before the year end once the legislation was passed and the changes put in place to help the immigration department collect the cash from work permit holders.
Speaking to a packed audience in West Bay for close to two hours on Wednesday evening before he allowed questions, Bush said the "fee" was not his first choice but until someone offered a viable alternative, it would go ahead. During the course of the evening he was asked about the various alternatives that had been posed to government from a number of sources in the community and what was wrong with them all, but he was unable to offer answers, insisting that he had heard “them all before" and they would not bring in enough revenue.
He condemned the media for calling the tax on foreign workers’ earnings an "expat tax" as he seemed to think those headlines, rather than his policy, would be the ruin of Cayman, and he took aim at everyone, from the governor and the auditor general, whom he said had all prevented his government from doing the things it needed to do for Cayman’s economic recovery.
He said the bloggers should be telling the UK’s representative to stay on the beach and “sun his buns" and not interfere with the elected politicians, as he railed against the UK pressure to produce a balanced budget.
He said the Foreign Office economist sent to the Cayman Islands by the overseas territories minister to help with the budget had insisted on a surplus for the 2012/13 spending year of $76 million. Bush told the West Bay crowd that his Cabinet had gone as far as it could to reach that target and had managed to bring the budget surplus to $70 million. He said the details of his government’s spending plans had gone to London.
The premier said he hoped to have the UK’s approval by Friday and intended to deliver the budget, complete with the new tax and a number of other fee increases impacting the offshore sector, on 9 August.
The premier stated that he had cut spending in the civil service as much as he could but it was down to the governor and deputy governor to cut pay and jobs as he insisted he could not do it.
Bush promised the crowd that there was no way that the "community enhancement fee" would ever be extended to Caymanians, underscored by the fact that immigration would be the auditor, collector and enforcer of the payroll tax. He said the fee was also levied in a number of other countries around the region, such as Bermuda and BVI, so why couldn’t Cayman also raise revenue this way?
He dismissed comments from members of the audience about what research, analysis and assessments had been done by economic experts about the potential long term harm, how the tax would be collected, the potential for evasion and avoidance as well as other problems, saying, “We believe it’s going to work.” However, he offered everyone the opportunity to send alternative suggestions to his office as quickly as possible.
Bush said that every solution that his government had put forward to try and solve Cayman’s economic problems had been shot down or opposed by someone "causing fire storms", as he railed against his critics and opponents.
Although several issues regarding the tax have not yet been clarified as previously stated on CNS this only applies to work permit holders and not to foreign nationals working in the civil service.
Check back to CNS later for more from the meeting and the plans for the 2012/13 budget.
Category: Politics
The over staffed and fully incompetent Caymanian immigration dept is now going to be tasked to do something else. Yep! this is Grand Cayman. If something doesn't work here………………Its normal.
Question for the great christian people of cayman? What would jesus do?
pay his taxes
And they would answer "just give us your money or else".
I don’t usually pay taxes…but when I do…I pay direct taxes in a jurisdiction built on being tax free!
here is few ideas that gov can use to make more $$;
1) a lotto & casino
2) give cuc a gas break or allow another electric company here
3) take $ that is being moved here daily etc
4) charge everyone that brings in stuff like dart, churches,
5) stop giving away contract employes with free housing & car, just give them a straight sallry!
6) move all of sectors in the new gov building & stop paying rent.
7) cut social service & give jobs instead
8) use cayman exspress instead of c-airwyas when flights are not full
9) retire those who have reached 60 & give the job to someone would take a less $
10) stop the free paving in c-bac
11) cut the police force to 250 instead of 400 in grand cayman
Anon 1340 a lot of what you say there makes sense.
However 2 has me baffled.
Giving that break to CUC means less fees for Government to collect and less money for Government to use. Granted this would make life easier for the public but not Government.
8 is interesting. When CAL is not full use Cayman Express. Do you know how long a flight that will be? And you are going to burn about as much fuel given that that aircraft would be less economical.
I especially like 1 as a new source of revenue, 6 but keeping in mind that certain agencies it is not possible, 7 because I think it is abused, 10 special interests and 11 what value are we getting.
No Taxation without Representation. It's a simple statement. And nowhere is it more true than in this latest halluciantion from the Premier. This is inherently unfair and probably unjust. Bush has also failed to realize the days when the financial industry, and tourism, would support a never ending increase in the size of the already bloated civil service (consisting of voters for himself and the other political hacks) ….are over. The plan apparently was for most Caymanians to work for government, have their pensions and health care paid for, laze around in offices playing with BlackBerries and reading newspapers and continue to vote for them indefinitely whilst political parties just the two would trade places. Nice concept unfortunately, the party's over, and there was no plan B.
If you must insist on borrowing American slogans, here's one–"Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that man behind the tree.." Sen. Russell Long of Louisiana.
I am in agreement that the tax should be levied to all working residents of Cayman and not only expats, or consider other viable options for revenue generation. Even if the tax is introduced to expats only, it is likely to be implemented on Caymanians in due time so I believe we are all in this together.
To the expats who are ranting/threatening they will leave if the tax is introduced I have one request.
Follow through with your threats and leave. Say what you mean and mean what you say.Talk is cheap. There is little that is as frustrating than the person who cries wolf but doesn't act. Otherwise you will lose credibility in the office and socially. And I don't believe you will ever be happy here.
I have listened to a lot of venting and ranting the past week over this issue, and I will be reminding those of their words if they do not follow through. We are all replaceable as has been proven by the years of expat turnover- life and business continues on.
I can honestly say this whole situation has just made me sad and I feel like I no longer feel like I belongin Cayman, because the sentiment toward expats as of late has been so bad.
I've lived and worked in Cayman and contributed to the economy, by living here and volunteered at my church, local schools as a JA advisor. Mr. Bush doesn't know me or my financial situation or the hardships that I go through daily.
He said in his speech he will not tax his people, because he realised it was a burden that they couldn't bare. I just want him to know, its a burden that I can't afford either. I make less than 40k a year, significantly less that most expats and most Caymanians and I thank God daily that I have a job. But Mr. Bush, when you said most expats will not feel that deduction, I want you to know I will and when you tell me you empathize with your people, and imply you could care less about me, that is a slap in the face Mr. Bush. I believe the relationship between Cayman and the Expat community is a symbiotic relationship, we exist because of each other. I wish people would remember that!
I don't have a problem with certain people paying certain tax but I think it is highly unfair that my expat coworker who makes the average secretary's salary has got to pay 10% from her small salary but yet my expat boss gets to pay nothing who is a multi-millionaire. It makes no sense, they have got to tax people that have been given PR/status as well. Most PR applicants are millionaires. You are taxing people that really can't afford it when you should be taxing people who are making over $100,000 a year, including Caymanians. Just my opinion! And to add, I am a Caymanian born and bred, I am not lazy and have worked in the financial industry for a long long time and has never had a bad report from past employers and I have seen a lot of discrimination against Caymanians where an expat is preferred over the Caymanian for no other reason than the employer knows their family or are friends etc.. It does happen.
The Civil Service must be next if this goes through – all making $36,000/year or more must pay??
Why isn't anyone trying to challenge the very reason we are having this expat tax ? We instead are too busy trying to speak for or against. Now come on we CAYMAN need this money badly but if we're going to waste time ranting then we'll have missed the opportunity to use this new revenues wisely. It's our moral obligation to pest the government to educate, hire and sustain the unemployed amongst us.Let focus our attention on the where and how exactly this money is going to be used…there in lies all the answers.
please pay your own taxes, then get all excited about what to do with your money.
The opportunity to use revenues wisely is long gone, it was all spent!!! Where do you this new revenue will go?
Seems fair to tax only expats. Caymanians being the good christian god fearing people that they are already give 10% of their salary to the church.
Anyone unhappy with the tax should email the FCO and tell them:
1. The tax is discriminatory on the basis of national origin.
2. It is illegal by reason of Article 1/1 and Article 14 of the ECHR.
3. The FCO owes duties under the Human Rights Act not to take steps in the UK which breach human rights outside the UK.
4. Approving the budget will be approving a breach of human rights.
5. The FCO will be liable in damages in England for every dollar claimed under this tax and all consequential damages flowing from the tax.
Here is an email address to send the notification : bellinghamh@parliament.uk .
Best to send to two email addresses. Here's the second one: PSBellingham@fco.gov.uk
And I would suggest the governor be copied in too, but only wish I could find his email address!
Final suggestion: It might be quite an eye opener if somebody drew up a chronology of all the shit we been putting up with the last three years – give them the full picture instead of having them think this is an isolated issue. I am in the process of compiling a letter myself.
As a British Citizen in a British Overseas Territory, I for one will be writing to Mr Bellingham to advise him of my (many) concerns over the way things run here. I am sick and tired of being treated like a leper, not by the good Caymanian people, but by the successive administrations and their discriminatory policies, laws and procedures. The current administration and this tax idea is the absolute final straw.
Mr. Bush and Rolston, I too would like to give you some suggestions. The EXPat Tax is a Cayman grave digger…..Scrap it! Here are some suggestions from Joe Public. You have three areas that needs trimming. Please get rid of Boatswaine Beach/Turtle Farm…Sell It to scientists or an environmental group. Sell the sewage system or if its not working…..scrap it! Cayman Airways keep it, but trim the fat….in trimming the fat, make ALL those former employees, family members or affiliations pay full fare for their trips abroad. Then last but not lease, the Hospital….the hospital….sell it! Privatize the hospital as health services is causing these Islands too much…waaaaay too much…..Perhaps the Baptist Hospital are already very active here in the Caymans, they could be given the first offer, Cleveland Clinics group, the Mayo group etc etc. Sell it! Now…that would be trimming the CS. Social Services needs to be monitored and audited…..bad words I know, but that area needs to be monitored carefully. Too many people on Welfare here for no reason at all and it looks like government is encouraging it. I have a few other suggestions, centralize the HR Depts and the Financial Controllers. Yes…some fat can be trimmed there. Finally, stop feeding the pigs at the trough! You see the more you feed them, the more they come. Stop handing out money to everyone that comes crying. I know its hurtful, but no government is run that way. Put any excess money away for a rainy day, like another Ivan. I notice that some students are getting full funding for studies in areas that are not beneficial to these Islands. If you are going to give, give to a student that will be studying for a public career or something benefitial to the Islands. You got to tighten the strings now Mr. Bush. On another note, Immigration should stick to their duties like the TSA, Immigration should not be policing the Tax! You need to established a Tax Revenue Department, the two should be seperated. Just my suggestions!
Naivete knows no bounds. – To implement most of the suggestions you raise, such as regarding social service, would require that politicans don't get an advantage from every one you have identified, either directly (flying high for example) or in being able to add people to the roles (for example) by fiat. – Your mistake is in believeing them when they ask for ideas. They meant 'ideas that will help government make money quickly and still curry the voter's favour'.
Think about it people. Like most fiendish plans it's the simplicity of this one that makes it almost clever.
Government has no money and a huge image problem with CS. Solve the money problem with tax and you create a collection problem which needs more money throwing at it, money that isn't there unless you use an existing service. Immigration has all the information needed to deal with collection already. Every WP application contains basic salary details so all Immigration have to do is divide that number by 10, send out a standard form demand and bank the checks. Contrary to popular belief, most WP applications contain accurate salary figures – anything too low tends to attract unqualified applicants and causes problems with Immigration later in trying to justify turning down those unqualified applicants for such a low paid job.
So Immigration collects the checks. When this creates too much work for Immigration, ie on day 1, CS employees are transferred over to Immigration to collect tax. Smaller CS, more government money. Somebody behind this scheme is not as stupid as we'd like him to be. Maybe this tax is so discriminatory simply because there is no way of cheaply tracking the salaries of anyone in this country except for WP holders.
Expect another amendment to the Immigration Law soon, something along the lines of making it an offence not to pay a government imposed charge or levy, punishable by revocation of your WP. Very few will notice more amends to the Law as there have been so many recently. If it happens, Immigration will effectively control tax payments. If the worker doesn't pay, he may lose his permit, which is a powerful incentive to his employer to step in and pay up for him.
Just the thoughts of an idle expat.
By "viable alternetive" he must mean anything that will feed the pig with the huge appetite and still feed the people. Here in Cayman only the pig has representation. EVERYONE else is in the same crowded boat. Time to set sail and let the pig try and feed itself or…time to butcher the pig and feast.
Why should foreign workers earning less than $36,000 not be required to pay the "Community Enhancement Fee" if they have access to the same government services as those workers earning more than $36,000?
Is this not another form of discrimination? Also, does anyone know of a tax system anywhere in the worldthat does not discriminate against some segment of the society?
Tax for ALL!
It's not a tax. It's a fine on people that make too much money. It's just a state administerred form of the age old tradition of 'crabbing'
From the Cayman Islands 2010 Census:
"In 2010, the country had an average income (as measured by the gross domestic product
per capita) of $44,184. This average is within the census earnings bracket $38,400 –
$57,999 where 16.1 percent of the employed labour force are marked. At least 61.3
percent of the employed labour force are in brackets lower than this “average bracket”
while 19.4 percent are in higher brackets."
So how can this be a fine on people who make too much money when the $36,000 standard now set still falls below the average income for 2010?
According to the 2010 Census
See: http://www.eso.ky/UserFiles/File/1_7%20Employment%283%29.pdf
Non Caymanians earning > CI $28,800 total 7,480. I presume this number has decreased since then.
Anyhow, the bands given are as follows:
$28,800 – $38,399 2,280
$38,400 – $57,599 2,208
$57,600 – $86,399 1,680
$86,400 +1,312
Assuming everyone earns at the top end of the band, and those over $86,400 earn on average $100,000, they would collect around $49,000,000.
I can only assume this is where he is getting his numbers from, however the analysis cannot end there… obviously one needs to look at what the economy has done to these numbers in the past 2 years, and also what the proposed impact would be of this
taxfee would be…Now this is going to piss Caymanians off but what about when this TAX is put into place on expats, we allow any expat who has lived on the island for a period of 5 years or more is eligible to apply for Residency, for a fee of course. These expats would still have to pay permit fees until the can apply for status. The persons who qualify for PR most likely will purchase land, condos, and houses and hopefully will spend the rest of their lives here investing in the island, rather than saving all their money to return home.
This may not be the best idea but we Caymanians cannot afford to have this tax implemented. OH and don’t forget the mass status grant Mr. Bush gave at really not cost…..
Yes and new 'job title on work permit or PR' would be Executive Community Enhancers:)
Mark my word, Bush will next target our savings and find a way of taxing that even if we have no income from it due to low rates….. I plan to move all my savings from the local banks.
I would recommend not holding any significant sums in CI$ as it's only a matter of time before the insolvency of this country leads to its eventual de-pegging from the US$, followed by a run on the CI dollar and free-fall like the JA dollar.
Many might deny this could possibly happen, but I know I will keep my savings in US$.
No need to fear that, I don't think anybody is going to have any savings after McKeeva is finished running this country into the ground.
Here's the other skinny of it. His plan only works if the same number of expats making the samewages stay in CI. They won't, so this only magnifies the problem forcing him to eventually 1) tax everyone 2) fire even more CS and reduce salaries 3) move the He@@ out of here himself because he ruined the place.
Actually, come to think of it…maybe ruining the place is his plan since we're investigating him on 3 counts of coruption. He is very vindictive you know!
Even the most xenophobic of sitting MLA’s apparently realizes this whole little game of Mac’s is an extremely bad idea. Play on playa.
…you know that 4 cents that is stolen on the street versus the bank the 80 cents on the dollar instead of the 84 that its supposed to be ….that should be the governments cut.
Bullcr@p, cash a US$ bill at the bank and you get 80 cents too, it's only cheques that are exchanged at .82 and .84. The way to remember which of those to use is that the bank always wins.
I Love Cayman and will pay the tax! It sounds like there will be lots and lots of Jobs opening soon.
Soon Come 🙂
you are sooo right. Lot's of jobs openning…. and then lots more disappearing altogether. Enjoy your new job.
Nope…..no room for corruption there….
I heard the moron of a premier this morning trying to compare CI to other offshore centers by saying "this is only 10%, all of the other offshore centers have 20-30% tax, this will not affect Cayman" What an idiot, did he really forget that we already pay 22% on EVERYTHING that we buy? This will put us at over 30% for the avg worker because most of what the avg person makes goes into cost of living.
I am Caymanian and I own land and business here, I am stuck and at this point no one will buy either from me if I want to leave. He is KILLING this country, we have it so much better than so many other islands. I just don't get it.
Can we just make West Bay their own republic and build a big a$$ wall that cuts it off around the 4 way stop? Maybe we can even give them half of the beach and that way Dart can build Camana Bay 2 in the republic and leave the other half on our side? We'll even give him diplomatic immunity to travel from his penthouse in the Ritz back to his republic.
Let us not forget Cayman's work permit fees are currently 20 times to size of Bermuda's
Their payroll tax (which is on everyone) is almost equal t what firms pay in caymn for their WP fees, now he is adding 10% on top, pricing us out of the market
and he will keep on increasing the tax, as he won't raise the income he wants, he is already taking aboutpaying it 15% on some sectors
Well BVI is looking very attractive to me now 🙂
and don't forget the extra 25cents tax on every gallon of gas we buy
How to kill the middle class and divide a nation. A Caymanian Story
I am not a party member only a concerned citizen who loves this country very much. What was witnessed Wednesday evening was a gross example of political lip service to democracy. Tyrannical rambling and double talk. Politicians tongue lashing the populace and blaming everyone besides themselves. If the situation was not so serious it would be a scene from a terrible movie. We Caymanians are to blame for this situation, you, me, and others before us. Don’t rock the boat right? We used to laugh at Mac and sigh in embarrassment with him going around the world and making a fool of himself. Our leader is supposed to be a representation of the people of the nation and I refuse to believe that this is the best we have to offer. We were complacent when times were good, he could not do any damage. Now when we are faced with this problem we can no longer laugh at. We brought ourselves here and we need to bring ourselves out.
1. Taxes now start at $36,000 KYD a year – another political move by this administration to pit expat against expat. The low income earners can now be silenced as this does not affect them anymore. The overwhelming proportion of the expat population is in this zone. This tax is now specifically aimed at the expat middle class. This is the group with disposable income in the country that spends or saves for home, sends kids to school, visits restaurants, and the movies. The 10% they spend on these luxuries will now go to the Government and Caymanian companies will not receive this income and will need to make adjustments in staffing levels and expenses inside their companies. Why would you farther your tax base? No plan at all.
2. Immigration to collect “INCOME TAX” – I was unaware of any tax accountants working at the immigration department. Ask yourselves do both Caymanians and Expats trust the Immigration department to do the job they are task with now? Ah I will let you answer that. What if you are an hourly wage worker and not a salaryemployee? How do they collect that? What if you have your salary adjusted to $35,999 KYD, then have the rest given to you in stocks, bonuses, or options? If so how would immigration collect this information and apply their tax? Another example of an administration that is broken and has never had a plan since being in office.
3. I want to throw one idea into the ring. An extra-ordinary one time tax on property based off value. Charged at a rate of 0.03 – 0.05%. This tax only comes into effect for property valued over $250,000 KYD. You spare the first time buyers and pull some money out of the beach properties. To those who say this will depress the realty market, can it really get much worse? The 1 – 5 million dollar properties along the beach are mostly investments for very wealthy people. The “normal” appreciation of these properties far outweighs this one time fee. Please do not get me wrong I am totally against all taxes until someone can provide me
with full audited documents that the Auditor General says are reliable. I have yet to find this.
There is a lot to said and write about and I feel we will have a lot of battles before this finds resolution. Ask yourselves where has government spending been reduced? Are you better off then you were 3 years ago? This Monday everyone needs to come out and just be there. I am holding a meeting in my company on Monday and I am going to ask if anyone wants to join me at the protest. I do not care if they are Caymanian or expat. The is turning point in this country and I cannot stand by and not do something. I encourage and implore all owners, and managers to allow workers to join this protest without reprisal. Join them. I know the decent people of this island will not allow their children’s future to be destroyed. If you have a problem with immigration giving a job away this meeting is for you too. It is not the expats fault. The people we have voted in have failed over the years have failed the country and we cannot have a new deal unless we take a stand. While we still can.
Judges 16:20
And she said, The Philistines be upon you, Samson. And he awoke out of his sleep, and said, I will go out as at other times before, and shake myself. And he knew not that the LORD was departed from him.
Thanks Mac. My Caymanian sons fiancee will have to pay this tax. Thanks for not impacting Caymanians (not).
Time to start a moving company or relocate before year end. Cayman was on the edge of a financial precipice but our Premier has now unfortunately pushed us of the edge.
Please bear in mind that Sarah Orrett who was blasting nastiness about expats at the meeting is paid $3000 per month to be a "park ranger" in Barkers.
She does NOT speak for the majority of Caymanians or West Bayers.
Nuff Said.
Ashamed Caymanian.
Doesn't that make her a Civil Servant, or are these "Park Rangers" just a part of McKeeva's non-working goon squad paid out of our Nation Building Fund?
Goon Squad is a good name – if you dont mind I will borrow that for future posts…
Woe to the expat. He has no voice and no vote.
He can do two things though to express his disagreement with this discriminatory tax. He can spend his dollars where he sees a Local Companies Control Law licence, and fly American.
If you have dependants here consider this.
For immigration purposes expats must earn over 3k per month for one depedant and then another 500 per month for each extra dependant.
Therefore immigration is very well placed to already know a lot of the poeple who are here earning over the threshold.
This will stop those people being able to say that they only earn 35999 per year as their dependants will be used against them.
Here’s The Skinny
When ALL current Expat workers arrived on the island they did so believing that this was a TAX FREE jurisdiction for the most part, since WE all pay indirect taxes.
Some brought their families with them and enrolled their children in private schools and some purchased real estate.
Most budgeted their incomes accordingly.
Now, it has been suggested that the rules will be changed and changed in the middle of the game.
Some might be on contracts that will not allow them to leave before a set time and they will now be forced to pay a tax they never agreed to or budgeted to pay.
Some will need to and or want to sell their real estate investments because they can no longer afford them or because they feel Cayman’s new TAX society is no longer what they desire.
Some will now be stuck with real estate that they cannot sell as most new expat arrivals and most currently residing on-island will find no reason or desire to purchase homes or condos that they too will need to sell when theirtime is up or perhaps they will no longer be able to afford since they will be paying a “Community Enhancement Fee,” that lowers their bottom line.
Some people will say that employers should make up the difference to these employees while others will realize that small businesses will suffer and large business will just increase their fees to Joe Public to stay compatible with the rest of the truly TAX FREE jurisdictions.
I say this TAX/FEE is a bad idea and it doesn’t even affect me but I do see it for what it truly is.
It is appalling that members of our society are being told to pack up and go if you don’t want to pay. If only it were that easy. Some Expats have made Cayman their home. They have invested in Cayman and love these Islands for more than just paychecks.
Some Expats (residents) don’t even work in Cayman but they spend more money than any working Caymanian or working Expat on rents, school fees, necessities, food and entertainment.
If you think that most of these people are going to hang around and watch the Good Ship Lollipop go down, you are sadly mistaken.
We will all end up paying in the long run, whether it be from a TAX , FEE, devalued property, or because we no longer have the population we need to keep Cayman afloat.
Some people need to wake-up and realize the impact the unkind and unwelcoming words spewed by a few and supported by several have had on this community, all being witnessed by the world.
Caymankind indeed.
Mr. Premier,
You are looking for an alternative solutions but the opposition has long time suggested an efficient ways to respond to the government deficit. It will not hurt if you will try them first before implementing an AGGRESSIVE MOVE that you don't know the implications.
Why not garbage your current proposal and focus on the following targets:
1% – payroll tax for all, regardless of income and race
0.5% – business tax, except banks (which has a separate line below)
0.5% – corporate tax, for all businesses that are registered in the Cayman Islands
0.5% – share of forex exchange spread from the banks
For a total of 2.5% coming from different sectors. I assume the last 3 above would have a bigger basis and you can collect a MORE DESIRABLE REVENUE. Implementing higher rates than above will have a resistant reactions from the crowd.
It would be MORE EFFICIENT if the TAX RATES to be implemented are at the LOWEST LEVEL to STAY COMPETITIVE FROM OTHER COUNTRIES. I see growth if you will take this route instead of focusing your attention to just one sector who are having a hard time to live in your country due to a HIGH COST OF LIVING. Name anything you can think of and I assure you everything here is costly. Therefore, putting ANOTHER BURDEN on the shoulder will cripple the household budget.
Again, it won't hurt if you will try a LESS AGGRESSIVE SOLUTIONS instead of dropping a bomb at one time.
RACE ???????? Yikes, I hope you meant nationality or immigration status. *whew* I really hope that is what you meant. Because Race means something VERY different.
I woke up one morning back in the 1980's thinking that the price of gas would have never changed from $1.50 a gallon also, but you know what? It kept going up and up! Do we all now wished we could drive our cars to the United States or wherever and fueled our cars up where it is a lot cheaper and drive back? Hell yeah! So please stop talking nonsense about changing in the middle of the game. (It’s a part of life- unpopular decisions has to be made at times)
You have a choice dude- Its either you choose to live amongst the Cayman people- or you decide to leave. We expats have been enjoying all the luxuries since we arrive. Why did we come here? To make a better living for ourselves and our families- some of which were born right here- I see big pregnant women every day from other countries- and I am sure NO aircraft would allow them to fly as some look well over 8 months. It’s their country- ( and with good behavior it could be yours/ours as well) when we are back in our respective countries we certainly want to be assured that our Governments look after us the native people "First and Foremost" and at the same time- welcoming to our visitors.
What we must ask ourselves- did the successive Governments tried to impose this on us before? No! Listen friend…The country is in a budget crisis- so if we truly love this place we should be happy to help where we can. Nothing last forever- maybe they will only impose this for a few years and then we would be back to normal. We must also remember that the Cayman people are who made this place attractive for us in the first place, so let’s be reasonable and grateful. After all we could still go to the beach and "Tan our Buns" I don’t think they will tax us for that!! 🙂
Really?
Gas not going up in price?
This is one piss-poor analogy this current situation.
Here's the skinny back at ya….I came here with no idea that it was a tax free juristiction. I came here because I love Cayman.
You loved Cayman before you came? Interesting…
you are very special my friend, very special. did you know anything about the island, or was it all hormones?
So I guess you lived under a rock?
In related news it was annouced today that the government would be counting everyone on the planet who did not sign up to the Facebook page by 5 PM today as voting in favour of the payroll tax. They are therefore confident of winning this fight just like they won the referendum.
Funny but sad.
Cayman's future is decided be people who do not care.
D I S C R I M I N A T I O N. Is alive and well in the Cayman Islands. This cannot be compared to the US or UK or any other jurisdiction where EVERYONE pays tax, not just a select few.
Not only pay tax. But recieve benefits from the tax paid. That is a HUGE difference.
You forgot I N C O M P E T E N C E! Caymans only natural resource.
My problem in all of it is this….
We have a leaking boat. It's leaks are numerous and let's look at some of them:
1) Oversized CS that needs to be trimmed. This should have started happening from DAY 1 on the job. We are not talking about letting people go. We are talking about moving people from public sector into private sector. Mr Bush puts blame on Gov and Gov says it's Bush. Why then don't they sit down and speak MAN TO MAN. Why then does Mr Bush state publicly what he would like done so that the Governor knows what he needs to do??
2) Schemes – We need to stop with these hairbrained schemes that is costing us unfathomable amounts of money and stick to what is proven. We can look at money we have thrown away ala Cohen & Cohen and GLF as learning curves but they were expensive learning curves.
3) Travel – In the age of telecommunications why don't we use some. Video Conferencing is the way business is done now try it!!
4) Slush Funds – GET RID OF THEM!!!
5) Turtle Farm – With teh news coming out of teh farm lately about the loss of some 200 I believe it is time we turn over the reigns of protecting turtles to someone else. Some charity organization or someone else can do it. We just need out one way or another. PERIOD.
6) Cayman Airways – I would let this hold for now until we can see the impact that the Shetty Hospital has on its profit margins. I also would like to see what others revenue measures I would propose could do.
Revenue Measure
I believe before we do any direct tax or increase any existing indirect taxes we need to take a serious look at these:
1) Mr. Millers Proposed exchange rate measure – This has the real possibility of bringing in significant amounts of revenue. If not done on the exchange itself then a fee based on level of exchange activity. They would have the same effect to the bank.
2) Casinos – I guess you can tell from previous post I am a big proponent for Casinos here in Cayman. I believe Casinos solves not one but two of Cayman's problems. Casinos users (gamblers) are not as season oriented as standard tourist are. They travel where the action is at not based on sun. Tournaments could be made during summer months that would even out the tourism industry. High Rollers would take a closer look at the Cayman Islands and possibly invest. They sometimes travel with their family which woudl add to the tourism aspect. Casinos construction would kick start our construction industry. The only thing stopping us is the fact that we pander too much to the Christian community. There needs to be separation of Church and State here. We need these things to diversify our economy. If the Churches don't have a way to generate 20-50 million dollars a year then please shut up. There is a fear that some Caymanians would gamble away their rent money. I say make it that Caymanians need a license to gamble and make the fee astronomical. Let's say CI$10K to CI$25K.
3) National Lottery – This could generate 5Million dollars annually.
4) Licensing Numbers sellers would generate some income also and possibly make teh game even more popular because I have to figure some people do not do it out of fear.
I would like others to post other ideas because it's time we start a pool of ideas that the Premier could look at that woudl work out better for us than direct taxation.
Higher taxes than Canada!
Just for laughs, I plugged some numbers into an income tax program I have: family of 4, 2 young children with one parent working earning $40,000 and the other parent staying home with the kids, no income.
The result: In British Columbia, Canada that person would pay about $2,625 per year in taxes. In Mac's new high tax jurisdiction Cayman Islands, he or she will pay $4,000.
Of course, in Cayman that person would pay another $2 – 4,000 for decent health insurance for his or her family. In Canada, that is what we pay taxes for, largely.
Granted, it is unusual for only one parent in a family to be working, but it does happen. As a person's income goes up, the comparison is more favourable to one working under Mac's flat 10% Expat Tax regime. I guess it is still okay to be an expat in Cayman as long as you are rich.
Check the date on your program…. I guarantee you a family of 4 can't afford to live on $40k and they certainly pay much more in tax!!!
you forgot to mention that in cayman you would also recieve no, zero benefits. zippo. none.
To Young. KY.Female – your below comment is the best I read so far. I hope that in the passing of this difficult time, the community would have your kind of mindset and attitude. We need more like you. Thank you.
CAYMAN ISLANDS – A country committed to the democratic values of human dignity, equality and freedom….unless you are on a work permit.
I am a fortunate and well paid Caymanian earning, I am sure, far in excess of what the average expatriate worker does. Please can someone let me know whether I will be able to voluntarily remit 10% of my monthly income towards the proposed Community Enhancement Fee. I feel that I cannot, in good conscious, stand by and allow those with less means than I pay to enhance a community that we all share.
If it is true and measures such as direct taxation are necessary to ensure the long term success and stability of our country then the aims of the 'fees' would be better served by taxing whoever can afford to pay it irrespective of their nationality.
My salary will be reduced to 35,999 but I will receive a nice Monthly cheque in the over seas bank account
Honestly, if the tax is going to stay it should apply to those who make 20k a year, they are the ones who hardly contribute anything. They shack up in a room, like ten of them. While the richer expats buy homes/cars/pay for private school etc.
And they are the ones who can least afford it. But as long as they continue to look after your children, clean your houses, serve you in restaurants and bars, build your houses, staff your hospitals and generally make this place work as a functioning society, why should you care. Why do you think they are forced to live in third world property that is owned by local landlords who care nought for their well being. Couldit be that you enjoy that oh so superior feeling of being in control of indentured slaves who have left their home lands to support their families. Does mocking them make you feel better than them, does paying them subsistance pay for work that you feel beneath your own high standards make you feel good?
Perhaps you should take your foot off of the neck of your biggest social and business asset and treat them with dignity and respect. After all, the vast majority of 'Caymanians' are decended from immigrants and the expat community themselves, what gives you the right to be so arrogant.
Those who support this disgusting punitive tax on the lowest paid are just immoral, xenophobic racists who would rather see the poor get poorer than pay their fair share and relieve the overall burden. These people owe you nothing, it is you who owe them a living wage, sanitary accommodation and most of all, RESPECT.
For those that think the tax should be on those making $20,000 / year because they shack up 10 people in one house and don't spend any money, your naivity is extreeme. Do you think those people want to live like that ;…NO . They have let themselves be exploytedby company owners and weathier caymanians and expats that can afford helpers so that they can feed and care for thier families abroad. You think they dont put anything into the economy. What would happen if the business owners had to pay them over $40,000.00 / year or the home owners had to pay thier helpers higher amounts. Since the US and CI dollars have already been reduced so low that they are not able to support thier families as well as they could a few years ago you want to now tax the life right out of them and thier families…GOD BE WITH YOU
Expansion of direct taxation has already begun, even before the initial implementation.
Quoted from the Cayman Compass article:
The premier also revealed the planned introduction of a 5 per cent additional fee, based on salaries, that would be levied on employers of expat staff in certain categories of employment.
So, already Bush plans to tax businesses a 5% payroll tax, on top of the 10% income tax on work permit holders. So, it goes. One tax leads to another and another.
If Bush's tax plans are not stopped, Cayman will be a very different place at this time next year.
Try collecting 5 per cent from my firm mr bush. Your law is illegal. I will see you in court and most likely several appeal courts. You through your ineptitude have created total mayhem. Many of us have strived to put Cayman on the map since the financial centre took off in the seventies. You in a couple of weeks have done your best to destroy it. Read not just these well written responses from Caymanians and expats alike but also the international press. Maybe your learning does not enable you to read them. Perhaps you have rose tinted glasses. Who knows but you are not getting themessage.
At the beginning of your regime you promised to balance the budget and put the country in good financial shape. You failed miserably and you will go down in history as the baffoon that introduced taxes to the Cayman Islands.
Chris, I think it is poker-tinted glasses.
Well said Chris.
Baffoon is a good word – it suits him well
Warning! Do not feed the beast!
Some of the suggested methods of bringing in more money for the government may be plausible, but all that is really necessary is to stop the waste and graft. No one knows how much is disappearing through these well-used channels.
Why dont this man just scrap this whole idea how many expats that works on this Island makes that amount of money just get over it geezes.
It is obvious that McKeeva hasn't noticed that Cayman is full of accountants and lawyers who are experts when it comes to tax avoidance. It is their profession.
When McKeeva enacts this expat-only income tax, then he will spend the next 20 years plugging loophole after loophole in the letter of the law. Plugging the loopholes will, of course, entail hiring a bunch of civil service expats to draft and re-draft the income tax law.
The income tax law will become an 800 pound gorilla that is hard to control and expensive to feed.
The best way to control the deficit is to control spending by stopping the wastage. Sell Cayman Airways and close Boswains Beach.
Maybe you have a point 13:08, by saying that "Cayman is full with accountants and Lawyers who are expert when it comes to tax avoidance. It is their profession yes.
But 13:08, haven't you figured out by now that we Caymanians is full of knowledge in our profession too? That is why you are here, So my friend my suggestion to you is to encourage your Big Time Accountants to lay the first card on the table and see who wins this game.
We Caymanians have decided that whenwe are backed in a corner, we are NOT going to sit down any more, so if you want us to all get along like one happy family then I suggest we stand together for a better Cayman, otherwise we not going to BOW !!.
Now that you have pointed out that "we Caymanians is full of knowlege in our profession too," I can relax. Question though, does you know the lawyers and accountants in New York and London who sends the business? If you does, maybe they will send you the business when the expats they know have leave. Good luck with that.
Wow, you sound like one of those bid fancy accountant/lawyer types Me sorry.
You were backed into this corner by Caymanian politicians who were elected by Caymanians, no one else. Now you expect outsiders to pay for your own serious mistakes.
Sorry, dude or dudess, you make it very difficult to stand together when you keep electing idiots (UDP and PPM) to run the country.
Stand together?, I don't see paying, so you just want expats are paying for a better, while you are sponging for a worse Cayman
Amazing how so many people want a better Cayman but want others to pay for it
In what other country does the expat community have a say in what laws are implemented? Only in Cayman and that's because Caymanians are outnumbered in our own county by the expats.
Bottom line is that if government reduces the amount of civil servants, it will increase the amount of people unemployed and dependent on government for assistance/welfare. They will still need housing assistance, medical care and food. I agree Government has to reduce spending but firing people only to turn around and have to still support them is not the answer.
I agree that we need expats but not as the majority of every middle to high end position in Cayman.
We need a disincentive to hiring expats over educated Caymanians. We need a disincentive to the buddy system. We need a disincentive to overinflated postion experience requirements when a someone fresh out of college could do the same work when properly trained. We need to reduce the amount of expats in Cayman and increase the amount of Caymanians in the work force. This expat fee is just what Cayman needs even if its hurts Cayman in the short term.
The hiring of expats is and always was meant to be temporary. Staffing plans submitted to immigration had to detail a succession plan that specified a Caymanian would be trained to replace the expat when thier term was up. This is hardly ever done and I have never seen or heard of it happening. If they will not train Caymanians to replace them, then Government has to step in and this fee is a step in right direction to that end. The next thing Government has to do is make sure that Caymanian are being trained within these organizations to replace the expats as this has gone on long enough. Talk about glass ceilings. This is a prime example.
In response to your question "In what other countrydoes the expat community have a say in what laws are implemented", well Ireland for one:
The right to vote is as follows:
Expats pay taxes just like citizens but they can also send their children to the schools, get healthcare and all the other benefits that come with paying a tax. Google it.
Local governments do not set national taxes like income tax. Only Irish and British Citizens may vote in Irish national elections. You've just disproved your own point.
I don't hear all my successful Caymanian friends speaking like this.
Me neither. The only Caymanians I have ever come across as favouring Mac and his mad policies is right here on CNS, oh and on FaceBook of course.
You have no concept of cause and effect. This tax only converts the glass ceiling to a concrete one. Think about it: The government will no longer want to see Caymanians take the jobs of tax-paying expats. Every time an expat is replaced by a Caymanian, the government loses that large work permit fee AND 10% of his or her salary. Cayman will be more dependent than ever on high-earning expats. Seriously people; this is the worst thing that could ever happen for Caymanians coming back from college. The only poeple who should rejoice about this are civil servants, who, after they get the government to back down on its plan to make them pay some of their way, can go back to their cushy jobs playing computer solitaire and talking on their BlackBerry, while bringing this country to ruin.
How about you take a day or two off and check some of your ‘facts’
While I agree with your sentiment, this fee is not the way to do it. The cuts to the civil service should not start at the bottom as these are the people who are always made to pay for the true offenders. How many civil servants who make $1600 a month do you know who have a business on the side or even the time to run said business? The problem lies with the directors and top managers of the civil service. There is no welfare programme in the world that these people would qualify for even if they were fired today. Another point is that even when cutting jobs and or making positions redundant it cannot be done in a disorganized or random manner. An independent performance review and audit of all the government departments and statutory authorities needs to take place. The bloated salaries at the top need to be trimmed, there is something fundamentally wrong when your public sector managers with no qualifications are making more than private sector managers who have degree's and experience. The government is not the only problem in this corrupt system. The private sector has just as much to answer for. Why is it so difficult for an educated Caymanian, who exceeds the qualifications required, to get a decent position? I'm currently working in the private sector after leaving government out of frustration at the bureaucracy. It was a big step, and I was fortunate to find a job quickly with a start up firm that had yet to be poisoned against hiring Caymanian youth. However, for some reason, every client I work with seems to find it hard to believe that I'm a Caymanian, born and educated here. I've been asked if I'm American, Bermudian, English and Canadian, but its rare that people assume I'm a Caymanian. Is it really hard to believe that there are hardworking, educated young Caymanians who speak proper English? Why am I asked where I'm from so often within my home country? Why is it that if I include my nationality on my resume, I rarely get an interview? Cayman has manyproblems that we have let grow out of hand; some very tough choices and sacrifices are going to have to be made. However, this "fee" is not the correct way to go. I'm not going to stand by and watch my homeland burn because of a greedy few. Don't be blinded by the corrupt or misguided by those who mean well. The only way we will truly change this system is by educating ourselves and making informed decisions. We don't need further division in these times when standing together has never been more important.
Not sure what you mean. If this goes through the "tax payers" of this country will be the only ones without a vote/say in what goes on……………. Now that seems fair. Put up with it or leave is the message here isn't it?
Beenie,
I am a Caymanian who sees the value of expats but also recognizes that they will always be needed. There are simply too many jobs and not enough Caymanians. Perhaps you could go away and come back in a generation and in the meantime enagage in a mass breeding and eduction program to fill the gaps.
The whole idea of training up Caymanians to fill the jobs can only go so far. The finanical industry attracts some of the most skillful lawyers, accountants and bankers in the world. We can just shrink the gene pool by a million percent and expect Cayman to still be a world leader.
Here is a simple analogy to explain…
Imagine if the Manchester United Football Team was told by their idoy Mayor that they could no longer hire the best worldwide talent but rather had to get all their players from some small village of 20,000 people. While I am sure the Man U coaches could find 11 people in the village who could run and kick a ball do you really think the team would be as good in a few years?
We need to be honest with ourselves here.
What a Caymanian is?
These expats that are against this tax have some nerves to make a facebook page with over 10,000 people joining that page fighting for there rights in someone else’s country, can you believe that. The part that tops it off is if you got so much followers so much mouth on your page why is it, I never heard 10,000 of you asking or telling Bush last night your concerns and what is funny to me as well is you can see on the TV last night when Cayman 27 cameras zoom into the protesters when they were leaving because they couldn’t handle the heat. Also people of Cayman have to realize when these expats gone about there busy and gain money from the country they would give rats about us. In the end Caymanians need to look out for there behinds the end of the day. As a Caymanian do you think I can go into someone else country and tell them I refuse to not pay any tax and protest about it come on now? I not a fan of UDP or PPM parties but in the same breathe, Beware Caymanians, it starts with expats and then it will expand to us! Could you imagine you as a young Caymanian going away to educated your self to better your self in your country when you get back you can’t find a job, they have the nerve to tell you that you don’t have any experience but when an expect have the experience businesses would throw a Caymanian to the side . Yes we have some Caymanian people who portrayed us wrong as all Caymanians are lazy which is very upsetting because we do have a lot of hard working Caymanians around us trying to make it day by day. Why can’t a business take there time to educate and train Caymanians so they can be the future of Cayman .I never seen any foolishness like this in my life. Most countries don’t welcome in expats. But Cayman surely lets them in with wide open arms. I mean that is a bunch of bull. I proud to see a few Caymanians spoke up for there rights in that meeting in west bay last night but at the same time for a man like Mckeeva to stand there and can’t answer a person in a professional manner it so not called for.
Why should businesses take the time to educate and train Caymanians, thats what the free schooling is for, business' bottom line is to make profit and thats been eroded enough!
it's a condition of the work permits granted!!!!
I think thats the exact point the poster was trying to make. We are here to do business not as educators. We should not be expected to fill the huge void that is the CIG's lack of educational standards and vocational schools and colleges, to prepare young people for the world of work. We can only do so much, having learnt much of our skills at colleges and universities abroad, the same skills as your government and Education Department should be providing for all youngsters here – but don't. This is what your indirect tax dollars should be spent on – not Slush Funds, Nation Building Funds, and overgenerous gifts to churches and good friends.
I am a Caymanian. At least 300 of my Caymanian friends and I are on that page.
I watched the meeting as well and it was obvious that Mckeeva would not even let people speak – Caymanians and expats alike. He KNOWS who his supporters are. And those are the only ones who got airtime.
Educate yourself. Ignorance breeds ignorance. Read my earlier post. I worked from the bottom up and am educated. Experience in the workplace is key ANYWHERE you go and Cayman isn't any different. We do have a lot of hardworking Caymanians here. Unfortunately we DO have many lazy Caymanians here too and unfortunately they are the ones most exposed to customer service. I have dealt with so many sorry excuses of civil servants. And yet I have at least a dozen friends employed by a governmental department, making a difference. Open you eyes to the reality!! You are doing a disservice to yourself and other Caymanians!!
"Could you imagine you as a young Caymanian going away to educated your self to better your self in your country when you get back you can’t find a job, they have the nerve to tell you that you don’t have any experience but when an expect have the experience businesses would throw a Caymanian to the side"
If your writing is an example of what Caymanians are offering the workforce then, yes, most definitely I can see exactly why Caymanians aren't getting jobs. A good start would be to learn the difference between 'there' and 'their'.
And yes, I am a Caymanian.
And the difference between ‘your self’ and ‘yourself’
And yes I am Caymanian, born and raised too
Some people are determined to turn what is a serious debate about this country's leadership and future, into a racial mud-slinging free for all.
It wouldn't surprise me if posters like this were working for the government to try and stifle proper discussion.
Cayman is in it's current state because of ignorant people like you! Do you really believe that if tax is implement the only ones paying for it now and in the future will be work permit holders? I have news for you – before you know it EVERYONE will be paying tax. and that tax will consistently increase.
Also, have you ever thought of the fact that issuing work permits is now going to be even more an income generator for Government because they will not just collect work permit fees but also tax.
Another news flash for you – more and more work permits will be issued cause your stupid Government is going to want that income……..I hope you have enough sense to do the math to see how this will NEGATIVELY impact Caymanians.
You are sorely misguided. I'm a Caymanian, who is under 25 years old. I was born and educated in these Islands. I received my degree from UCCI. I've worked for both the public and the private sector in the past, and I've experienced the discrimination against Caymanians attempting to enter the workforce. I've had to leave mynationality off of my resume just to secure an interview several times. I can't count how many times I've heard "Sorry but this is for a work permit renewal. We aren't actually looking to hire anybody." It is really sad that we have let our home become so hostile an environment. However, this is not the fault of the expat. Our own Caymanians have caused this through greed and corruption. We see them everyday proclaiming their "hands are clean" or making grand statements in support of one party or the other. Do not be fooled by these sheep in wolf's clothing, they are the cowards who are at the root of our plight. You cannot paint all expats with the same brush. Many come here and do more for these islands than our own brethren. There is a vocal minority that is only for themselves and to them, I say, please take one of the daily flights out of Cayman and never return. To the others, we should be welcoming as is the Caymanian way. Help them understand us and integrate into our society. We should not be dividing ourselves whether it be by 'Expat vs. Caymanian' or 'PPM vs. UDP'. We need to come together and educate ourselves so that we can show the world that the Cayman Islands can still be the paradise they always have been.
Please put away the anger and let's work together to heal our wounds.
Yawns loudly…………………… you don't like expats then?
This is a championship entry in the xenophobic expat rant Olympiad.
I am an expat, I am in a position to hire people in professional positions. Those people I hire will be required to deal/communicate with business contacts internationally. I continually here from Caymanians on this blog that educated Caymanians are being looked over for jobs they are qualified to do. I can tell you it is one thing to be "qualified" and entirely another thing to be a top performer in that position. Your post as an example is indicative of the communication skills of many Caymanians. I routinely receive resumes that contain countless gramatical errors which are a death sentence if you are applying for any position. We all know that anybody can become "qualified" but to get the good jobs you need to have more than a bachelors degree obtained through correspondence.
This tax is a short-sighted solution that will create an expat brain drain; leaving the country to be run by "qualifed" people who will soon realize just how unqualifed they really are.
Umhh, yeah, speaking of which… "I continually HEAR not here"… Also, "GRAMMATICAL" errors, not gramatical…
If you don't like it, leave. Starting a new life in another country is available for Caymanians too.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
WTF is your message?
Nevermind.
I'm sure your reply would be incomprehensible.
Import tax 22%. Work permit fee 10% of my annual salary. Lost employer contribution to retirement 5 %. Expat tax 10% = 47%!!! You don’t have to tell me I can leave. I know I can. I am. Can I have my repatriation fee, you know, for my ticket home. I’m not Caymanian you see, and I have to pay my own air fare. And Thanks for all the fish.
I am a Caymanian and do not get free airplane tickets. Please do not answer ignorance with ignorance. You don't have to tell us you will leave either, you got here and we are very aware that you have the option to get out. We will be left behind pikcing up the pieces so no need to throw salt in a soon-to-be open wound. You are not helping the situation with words that encourages the bafoon we call a leader to change his mind.
Apologies. I'm a little upset.
Then leave!!! Go!
slow down there rockhead. I'm packing my millions….
Some disingenuous math there. 22% Import duty is obviously not a % of your salary but of the cost of the items you choose to import or to purchase locally which have been imported. Your work permit fee is paid for by your employer and does not come out of your salary.
22% of say 3/4 of my income then. It is a tax. It goes to the govt.. I do pay my work permit. I
Ok, buh bye.
Let me know if you need a ride to the airport.
I do, but please don't charge me $50.00. Thanks buddy, see you at 11 am next wednesday.
and no, you can't have my lawnmower!
Re: The Premier's 18th C. English: Where is he getting this?
None of his advisors or ministers speak like this.
I wonder if he is listening to an audio-book and/or is channelling some 18thC orator. Here are just a few expressions from his recent diatribes:
"Be Ye sure…."
"Devil Worshippers"
"Skullduggery"
"Flogged, tarred, and feathered"
"Me dear" and "little girl" (addressed to two women)
"ill temper abroad"
"Fops" (referring to thugs)
"Donkey faces"
If the Premier has immursed himself in the 18thC, then his notions of remittance men, and indentured labour make sense.
To all you ladies: Next time the Premier insults one of you, all of you suffragettes should smack him with your reticules and march out in high dudgeon! That's talkin his language!
And Steve Mcfield ( a true sycophant if ever there was one) stands up and complains about what some of the bloggers on this site call Mac…it shows how deluded these people are….matbe we shoud refer to Mac as "Mr. sacred vessle premier"
Good Luck! You won't be collecting it from me. What happens next your when the tax is for Caymanians as well? Are they coing to get CUC to collect it?
It is obvious that most people were not interested in the garbage that this man spewed until recent weeks as this has always been how he has spoken. It is not personal to expats but to any and everyone who comes in the way of his plans for, what he anticipates to be, the greater good of himself and his few supporters. I am hoping now that we will all stay awake (since he asked the bloggers to go to sleep…threat or his personal realization that people haven't cared until this point, who knows?). I have stayed silent on the topic as most Caymanians have because it's just too painful to listen to or deal with and too much pressure to take a mediator role amongst grown-ups who have lost their heads and their hearts – we have been forced to attempt to listen for decades. Many of us have never voted, waiting for the right box to check, which has yet to present itself. How a handful of people have kept this man in office is unbelievable, extremely saddening and frightening. But do not worry – this cannot continue any longer. The younger generation is returning, educated and wide-eyed, embarrassed and of legal voting age. Change is coming.
But step back and think for a minute, Caymanians and Expats alike, of all things charitable that is done in our community and just ask yourself: Do I give back enough? Do I deserve to reap the "benefits" of ANY tax (let's just pretend there would be some for the sake of argument, although it’s impossible to fathom) and do I feel like I have this country at heart? I wonder if the blood bankwere to publish a list of regular donors, if you were on that list. I wonder if you have inspired your employer to make social responsibility a priority. I am a Caymanian heavily involved in my community and while more and more younger Caymanians are stepping up to the plate, not one organization in which I am involved would be successful without the expats dedicated to them respectively. And it is these persons who don’t get paid enough to make it if this proposal were to pass. The government won’t take on this responsibility. My fellow Caymanians won’t take on this responsibility (fully) and, even though these expats may survive the cut and stay out of their love for these islands, they surely won’t have the extra funds to donate so…who will?!
I was given the opportunity to go abroad and obtain a proper education through private funding – something many Caymanians claim to now have on this website and still be overlooked when interviewing for a position. Nowhere in the world does a degree give you a free pass. It is the standard. It doesn’t come along with experience and it doesn’t come along with a manual on how to act appropriately in the workplace. You must also prove yourself as an eager and dedicated employee. I started at the bottom in my company, scanning thousands of ivanized, damaged documents onto the company system. I opened mail and filed papers. Three years later, through perseverance, dedication and recognition I now have an amazing position. It takes time and no one deserves handouts! There are NO EXCUSES to not create your own destiny, there is NO REASON for ANYONE to act like children and expect to gain the respect of others who have paid their dues, and there is NO REASON for ANYONE to feel deserving of ANYTHING. We are all humans and YOU determine how you treat yourself and others and in turn what comes your way. Not McKeeva and not anyone else. The blame game has gone on throughout several levels of our society long enough and I am living proof that there is no better way to live than to be honest, dedicated and most importantly, accountable.
Expats, you can leave and that's fine, that's your decision and in many cases, it will be the best decision for you and your family. Trust me, we get it. There’s no need to throw it in our faces or make threatening remarks. You would be the lucky ones to leave this mess behind. It is hurtful to those of us who have helped you in times of need, depended on you and who have such great friendships with you. It is a shame that you focus on the minority of Caymanian bloggers who, in reality have nothing better to do but the stir up drama and claim false entitlement. The majority of us know how detrimental this proposal will be to all of us and do not stand for discrimination. I encourage all Caymanians to come together and make their voice heard so that everyone knows that this is true! With all due respect to our visitors, it is only us as Caymanians that can truly make the difference in this situation, but continue to stand by our sides. Fellow Caymanians, educate yourself and your loved ones. Spread the word and open your eyes. These are trying times for our country and we need to DO SOMETHING. I do not want our hard work in overcoming several challenges and beating the odds to go to waste. If this proposal passes, it will do just that! And if it doesn’t, that means dozens of capable and hard-working citizens will leave this island to pursue their dreams and our country will be a shell of a memory. Can you not see the bigger picture?!
Thank you to everyone who has put their necks, figuratively and literally, out there on this topic. Don’t stop. I can only hope more Caymanians will join the fight and we will be heard by those who have the authority to not only prevent this proposal from passing but to force Mckeeva Bush to step down. There isn’t a single Caymanian I know personally (and you know how large our circles are) that supports this issue. The ignorance displayed on this website, personal blogs and Facebook are not representative of the Caymanian population. We must change that. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
“MARL ROAD THIS, BOBO”
You are a breath of fresh air! The sad thing from my ex-pat standpoint is that I meet quite a few educated and worldly Caymanians such as yourself, but yet the country continues to be run by a bunch of "stand ins".
My hope for Cayman is that those like yourself take the reigns and turn this country around (it can't come soon enough!).
Honesty, integrityand intelligence, deserving of a standing ovation, thank you for your insightful overview!
I think one of the principal points of concern you raise is "Many of us have never voted, waiting for the right box to check, which has yet to present itself."
This will only be resolved when people like yourselves stand and oppose or stand for election.
Please Young KY Female send your above post to the media and then please, please get into the schools, neighborhoods and anywhere else you think you could possibly make a difference in GC!!! That is the best post I have EVER read on CNS- YOU CAN and WILL make a difference in GC!!!!
I do not know you, but girl, you have your head on straight!!
I was there last night and I asked why is the Premier gambling away the future of these islands in casinos.
I was threatened physically and verbally and had to have a police escort (thanks Mr. Baines) off the property.
It is nothing to do with politics, people.
Caymanians someone get a petition together calling for no direct taxation and a democratic government in the Cayman Islands. Do something before it is too late. Caymanian business people get together and put a stop to this madness. Some People Power at this time is needed and needed now!
If the numbers mentioned elsewhere relating to the cost of CINICO are even remotely accurate, it is clearly right up there with the Turtle Farm as a tremendous burden on society. Private health insurance of a far higher standard cost a quarter of that. Shut it down.
At the same time do something aboutthe GT hospital incompetent staff. Just last year the doctor gave my uncle the wrong medication and he had a heart attack then last week they overdosed my cousin's wife and she almost died. Thankfully the good doctors at CTMH were able to reverse the damage caused. The service at the public hospital stinks…you will die and rot b4 you get tended to. I wouldn't pay $5 a month for CINICO as it's not worth it!!
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The reason CINICO is expensive is that it has to cover al the indigents and uninsurable – you know, the ones the for-profit insurance companies won't cover, because they are or may actually get sick and cost them money.
You obviously have no idea that I know full well what I am talking about. You seem fine with Civil Servants paying that difference to essentially fund health insurance for indigents from their own pockets. Me, not so much.
You obviously have no idea how many uninsurable work permit holders are also covered by CINICO. Unfortunately, once two insurance companies have refused you cover (usually because you are so unhealthy) CINICO has to cover you.
The more I read these comments, I noticed they are pretty much all alike. The community enhancement fee will spare Caymanians from having to deal with the financial burden they are now experiencing. Are you saying that if you go back home, your country are to look out for foreignors before you? I don't think any country will do that. They will look out for their people first, and they will ensure that their needs are dealt with. If you guys which are few compared to the many supporters of this government don't like that, then you can go to timbuktoo. New expats that respect a country will take your place. Simple
I guess we’ll see about that. Peace.
There are no other "countries" that would want to try and tax their expats to pay for their bloated civil service. Your government sponsered Caymanian Christianity is showing.
I used to be a new expat that respected this country……………
Is he talking USD or KYD?
If I make KYD40,000 now, can i re-negotiate to make 35,500 in salary and the other 4,500 paid to my pension account in Canada?
Most of the lawyers on island work ways around much tougher tax systems daily to get the money here, it will take them less than an hour to figure out a thousand loop holes in anything that this half brained premier can come up with so I'm sure you'll have options. As my lawyer said to me "sit down with me for 5 mins and I'll show you how to go off shore from off shore"
11:51 What do you mean when you ask if he is taking USD or KYD. Are you nuts, this is Cayman Islands we use KYD this is not Washington DC. In fact it should be in Sterling he taking the 10%. Please stop the battle because you will not win this war.
'In fact it should be in Sterling he taking the 10%.'
Most are paid in USD. Do the shops and all businesses not take USD? Do you get paid in Sterling?
wanna bet?
09:28 PLEASE READ MY LIPS. You will not win, because WE Camianians have a back up plan. Watch us how he play dominoes. 6 LOVE AND YOUR UP.
Dear CNS,
Can you please be the first to assemble and publish a proper financial "balance sheet" for this country. People need to see to appreciate how much is actually being wasted in a proper financial format.
Thanks.
It wouldn't be hard to be first.
Think it is time to move on,
I wonder how many companies are going to carry on the trend after the last WP fee increase and move accouting departments abroad to save cost?
In the long run they are going to collect less tax than they get now as every job going is a WP fee lost, and less need for a large CS. One vicious circle
As for the two examples he used, Bermuda and BVI, they have payroll taxes (which Bush states this is not??) and they are on everyone. Als othere WP fees are 20 times less than those here. We competed with them due to their payroll tax and lesser WP fees pretty bush equalling our high WP fees, with this extra tax, we are no longer competitive
Bad times ahead, put house on the market at the weekend, going to have to take a big hit, but in 5 years time, I predict it will be less than 50% of its value. May even have to walk away and let the bank deal with the mess and wash my hands of it
Most firms, like the one I work for, alreayd have "plan B" we started talks on Monday. Regarless of whether this tax goes through or not it is likely too late. Most of us already have a way out and it will leave the Caymanian landlord (who is in the middle of construction on another office building that will likely remain empty and bank owned soon) in a huge pickle. And that's not pickle as in pickle bank, I know they like to fish but they likely won't be able to afford the gas money shortly.
I've loved my time here and have many lifelong Caymanian friends. It will be sad so see their lives destroyed by one mad man.
Where are you all going to go? What are you all waiting on? I need your job, and your condo and the car too. I am tapping my feet,leaning on the door and waiting until you finish pack. Pay your 10% and shut up.
you see, that's your problem. always waiting around, leaning up against a tree, just waiting for something for free. Your big break.
And what job exactly will you be taking when all the expats leave….oh yes I forgot fishing for Conch and Turtle…..ooooops I forgot you fished those all out already haven't you…..or are you going to blame the Ex-pats for that too?
You make some good points. However, I think that many companies are going to move the work but not the majority of the jobs. This will have a negative impact on a lot of the expat workers in Cayman.
Road toll tax??? You have got to be kidding.CIG have to pay ME for driving that stinky "highway" to compensate for the injury to my dignity and health. Even when I drive West Bay road the stench is unavoidable. What are the long term health consequences of daily inhaling that carcinogenous air? I am not even talking about people living in the vicinity of that cancer mole.
20K? 30K? 36K?………….changes hourly. What a circus
Don't Stop the Carnival!
10 questions/comments:
1) Immigration will do the collecting. Does this mean monthly, quarterly, annually? Automated deductions from your paycheck or will immigration rely on people showing up with checks? What about people on a 3 or 6 month permit making over $36,000, will there be an exit control at the airport to ensure you have paid your taxes and what if you haven't?
2) Say someone on a work permit has children born in Cayman and maybe even with one Caymanian parent (not married). Work permit parent is not able to pay their income tax for whatever reason (sudden illness with hospital bills for example), will they be forced to leave the country and their Caymanian child because their work permit will not be renewed due to non-payment of the Community Enhancement Fee?
3) Will people married to Caymanians have to pay? Presumably not since (i) they would have permanent residency and not be on a work permit and (ii) if you tax the non-Caymanian spouse, you are also taxing the Caymanian's total household income and Mac says this "fee" will never be extended to Caymanians.
4) Will people who have permanent residency and not married to Caymanians be taxed? If not, why shouldn't they be? PR holders are not Caymanians, they are just expats who have been in Cayman longer than expats on work permits so why should they not have to pay?
5) People say expats will leave and take all their money and expertise with them, that there are not enough Caymanians to fill these positions and as a result Cayman will perish. Yes, while there may not be enough qualified Caymanians to fill a lot positions, most roles will be easily replaced by other work permit holders. Does anyone actually think that people living abroad will not come to Cayman because of a 10% income tax when they are currently paying 30, 40, 50% with a 2 hour commute and miserable weather?
6) There are in reality, only a very small percentage of work permit holders that can be considered "irreplaceable" because of some special skills or knowledge. 95% of work permit holders are easily replaceable from a skills perspective so no, Cayman does not need to fear a collapse due to a lack of workers.
7) How will immigration control service professions, like bartenders? Say a bartender is on an annual salary of $40,000, they will pay $4000 in income tax. How will immigration control/collect on the additional 20-40K earned from gratuities?
8) Will raffle winners now be required to provide evidence of their work status before able to collect? Will work permit raffle winners be obligated to pay income tax on their winnings?
9) Will work permit holders have to add any profits from selling a car to their taxable income?
10) Will work permit holders have to include income from collected rent in their taxable amount?
Don't fear the work permit holders leaving, correct, they will be replaced. Fear the companies that leave – cause then there are no jobs to fill up. Viz Bahamas 1970!
My firm have already spoken to me about relocating, they are looking at relocating the whole accounting department so a cheaper jurisdiction. The many Caymanians in the department are rightly worried about losing their jobs if they don't relocate.
More unemployed Caymanians and less money for the goverment, and only hairy bush to blame
Some of your comments are a bit bemusing:
1. Bartenders earning $40k a year basic? Not in Cayman me thinks.
2. Most roles easily filled by Caymanians. The word easily worries me.
3. Expats currently paying 20-50% tax are a) paying the same tax as everyone, not a certain section of society b) allowed to vote when paying that tax and c) actually benefit from paying tax with free education for their children, free health care, garbage collection, etc.
4.95% of expats are easily replaceable? Where are 20,000 Caymanians going to come from to replace them?
Let's just face it, the proposed tax (it is a tax not an enhancement fee) is flawed in its concept, is discriminatory and will be nigh on impossible to collect. There is already a 2 hour minimum wait at Immigration, what will it be like when half the staff are dedicated to ensuring the tax is collected. The more the government elaborates on their proposal, the worse it gets.
It’s not even a tax, it’s a FINE!
Some of your comments are a bit bemusing:
1. Bartenders earning $40k a year basic? Not in Cayman me thinks.
2. Most roles easily filled by Caymanians. The word easily worries me.
3. Expats currently paying 20-50% tax are a) paying the same tax as everyone, not a certain section of society b) allowed to vote when paying that tax and c) actually benefit from paying tax with free education for their children, free health care, garbage collection, etc.
4.95% of expats are easily replaceable? Where are 20,000 Caymanians going to come from to replace them?
To the above poster…my comments may have been "bemusing" to you but probably because you didn't quite read them.
(1) I simply meant to illustrate an example of one of the difficulties of collecting this tax, how will income earned from gratuities be tracked? (2) I said "Yes, while there may not be enough qualified Caymanians to fill a lot positions, most roles will be easily replaced by other work permit holders." – not easily filled by Caymanians. (3) Name one country where expats are allowed to vote because they pay tax? Normally you will have to be a citizen in order to vote. Your other points about the benefits obtained in other countries cannot be disputed, however, they do not mean that there won't still be plenty of expats wanting to relocate to Cayman even with a 10% income tax. (4) Read my post again, some jobs will be filled by Caymanians but most will be EASILY replacable by other work permit holders who will not mind paying 10% income tax.
I have permanent residency and not married to a Caymanian. My current husband is not Caymanian. My ex-husband is Caymanian and we have 2 children of whom I have full custody because their father seems to prefer to go in and out of Northward. So your plan would have me pay the 10% tax, which would take away from my Caymanian children…YOUR next generation.
Either tax EVERYONE or no one. Period.
you think you're mad now, wait till he makes it retro active!
Please, do not give him ideas.
All Caymanians, Status Holders & Expats should be embarrassed by Mr. Bush's performance at last night's meeting. The people of the Cayman Islands who work & live here had to listen to the "Premier" of this country rant & rave about everything that is wrong with the Cayman Islands financial & economic situation is because of the Governor, Auditor General, PPM, a large portion of the Caymanian population & all Expats.
Mr. Bush your new title of "Premier" has gone to your head and you cannot even show respect for the majority of people who make up these islands, much less the Governor, Auditor General, MLA's and the representative from the UK.
Thank GOD that the UK has put their foot on your neck and caused your outrage. Our mother country is looking out of the financial well being of the Cayman Islands and a substainable future.
The entire world is in a recession due to most Governments overspending in all areas but primarily from prior commitments to Civil Servants through entitlements over a lifetime that the country can no longer afford. I would estimate that most westernized countries are in the same shape with the exception of China & India with massive labour force that make little to nothing for their labour.
We as a country need a leaders with innovative, positive, respectful negotiation experience and Mr. Bush has proven he is over his head in the position he now holds.
It is my belief that an interim solution would be for this fee to be paid by all employers for all working employees via the Pension Plan.
Corporate employers would pay 5% monthly on gross wages instead of into each employees pension fund directly into the emergency government fund. Government would pay 7% monthly on gross wages for each civil servant instead of into their pension fund for a period of one year. This interim solution would not affect employee take home pay nor increase the employers current budgets while giving the extra time for a positive solution. This can be easily handed between our current Pension Plans for receipt & distribution and the Auditor General Office for accountability & allocation of funds.
This one year period would be divided into two parts, the first six month period is to come up with a substainable solution in consolidate government agencies and departments to maintain requirements and lower costs. The second would be the implementation of the decisions made in the first six month of negotiations with a panel choosen by the Governor.
It's time for some mature, professional, substainable solution and to stop the blame game.
Mr Bush, you are a classic bully. I am proud to be related to Caymanian men older, harder working and wiser than you who are ashamed that you are representing this country in the ugly light that you are. They would never speak to member of the community in the manner you did last night. "Little girl"? Really? Patrionising this intelligent member of your own country merely wishing to understand how you have come to the conclusions you have did you absolutely no favours. I am glad it was captured on film! After Ms Orett finished her hateful rant purporting to be speaking for all Caymans (definitely, definitely not so!), you warned that this is what we were to expected if we dared stand up and ask a question. You blame the media for bringing bad attention to the island and said they were "no friend of Cayman". Really? And here I was thinking journalists just reported on the events and issues of the day. I can not even begin to put into words what I thought about your embarassing rambles on the Governor and the Auditor General ("Hitman"? Really?). You were obviously worried about what would happen it you held your meeting in Red Bay earlier in the week, presumably because you thought some sort of violence would erupt. This is a further sign of your ignorance and cowardness. The funny thing is, you run home to the safety of West Bay to hold your less than enlightening speech last night and it turns out that the three people who raised their voices and tried to incite violence were you and two of your supporters. It was a frustrating and blood boiling 3 hours but I take heart in the fact that younger Caymanians are taking an interest in politics and the future of their country which they realise includes expats to work the jobs noone wants, to put money into the community, to organise charities and support local school raffles and bake sales, to marry in order to provide genetic diversity. No matter your opinion Mr Bush, you should be giving these young people an opportunity to speak instead of cutting them short, treating them like fools and parking yourself back down on your chair leaving your collegaue to answer on your behalf. Shameful behaviour. I hope someone does show the footage of last night to the world media. It's time for you to step down. Caymanians and Expats alike are no longer willing to "go with the flow". We want intelligent solutions, capable and compassionate leaders and to bring Cayman back to glory. I love Cayman!
Didn't Mr Bush make a big pronouncement last year about not allowing any direct taxation under his watch???
Well said! That "little girl" is a blessing and a strong young Caymanian woman!! Well done "little girl"!
It saddens me to think that the fraction of the population that will benefit least from this community enhancement fee will be paying 100% of it. In Canada, yes, citizens AND expats are taxed, however, EVERYONE is given free health care, free schooling, and a terrific social safety net. Are expats given free schooling? No. Free health care? No. Any social safety net (ie access to mortgage relief, incentives such as the solar panels)? No.
That is the main difference in this plan. I smell a rat.
If the damn governmnet expat workers dont have to pay then the private sector shouldnt either. Trim the fat from the civil service, run government like a business, stop the over-spending, stop the travel, stop the favoritism, stop the freebies,stop the give aways, stop the cronyisms, just STOP the MADNESS!!! Here is a SIMPLE and cost effective method to earn GOOD and EASY revenue. Institue a 0.50 cent road toll tax for any cars entering the capital. This is easy to do as you have 2 main roads into GT…..put a toll station in Red Bay and another by the WB Fire Station- 1 person manning it 24 hours a day. Say you have 100 cars per hour thats $500 per hour averaged to 24 hours per day- equals $10-12,000 per day. I leave the rest of the calculations to government to figure out how much per year the income could be!!!!!
One major flaw in your plan is that chances are the person manning the poling station will get robbed. Too much thief bout di place.
You are being either ignorant or are too biased to think straight because govt expat workers are being asked to pay their medical and pension. Which if you know any math (doest appear so) is even more than 10%. So stop this noise making about government workers who will actually be losing more than anyone else.
On your road levy, you exhibit more lack of sense.
1. You cant punish people for where they chose to live (which is why Seymour's so called mileage tax is so unrealistic as to be out of this world).
2. Most people live in GT and from your suggestion, majority wont even pay the tax. If this is not discrimination, i wonder what is?
3. Your math is Screwed. 12000*365 = 4.3million. Govt is looking for 50million. Will you cough up the 46million?
So it is ideas like your and abuse of hard working government expat workers that Cayman does not need right now.
The CS won't contribute anything, they are the voters so Bush will back down
As ussually only the expats and private sector end up paying
ANd yes I do have to pay for half my health insurance and my deductable is 1,000 a year
Although this is a decent suggestions, the one fault with that is that those persons who live in George Town won't have to pay if they live and work in the capital.
I am a teacher. If I gave each studen in my year 1 class 100 candies, then took 10 of each of the expats' candies away, and handed them over to the Caymanian kids, I would predict that all of the students would agree that this is unjust. I would suspect that the Caymanian students would even suggest giving the other students back their 10% portion.
Why can't adults see things this clearly?
You may need to dumb this down a little more so the elected MLA's can understand it.
The only flaw in your arugment is that the 10% get given to the Caymanians…in this instance the 10% gets kept by govt to spend on things like christmas lights and plane fare.
I'm sorry but your example doesn't take into account the realities of political and social dynamics. For one, the 10 candies would not go to the Caymanian Kids. They would go to the Caymanian "teacher" who consumes endlessly and distributes as he pleases. Second, you do not factor in entitlement. Indeed, there is an uneducated faction in Cayman (fortunately the minority) who believe the the expat kid should only get enough candy to survive. Otherwise, that expat kid will send the extra candy overseas at the expense of the Caymanian kid, who should have received the extra candy.
That presumes "fair" is the objective… but it's not. The objective is to let MB continue to piss away money on himself and his electors, the airline and the turtle fiasco, and his "business partners", all with no accountability to anyone (expat payor or citizen), all while selling out to the Chinese and anyone else XXXXX, all while keeping the West Bay people greased well enough to keep him in office,at at the immediate expense of people who can't vote but ignoring the fact that the people who do vote will suffer from the lost money from the financial services industry as it contrcts and moves on… which is something MB doesn't care about because it's all about him, not about the people of Cayman and the stakeholders involved. It's not about fairness; it's about pillaging while the pillaging is still available.
I'm looking at West Bay for electing him and thinking that they will pay for what they have done to this Island once it turns into Haiti and MB is long gone to his retirement elsewhere, and I'm not very proud of feeling that way.
That wouldn't happen in a Government school. No expats.
If our leader is going to put this stupid tax on Expats, well let's let the expats go to our Gov schools of course for a fee less than the private schools.
The one solution that seems to be missing from this discussion is rather than offering a viable alternative, why not seek ways to cut government expenditure?
If the government lived within its financial means, then no one would have to pay tax.
It only takes a weekend visit to Cayman Brac, where each year the government opens up as many jobs as there are high school graduates, then has them make coffee and shred paperfull time for a very generous wage. Or, a trip to Savannah Post Office, where the parking lot is ALWAYS empty, yet there are two employees always working, which usually amounts to watching television.
This is evidence of inneficiency. No one should have to contribute from their wages to cover such irresponsible use of public money.
So if I earn $36,000 my pay would be $36K – 10% or $32,400.
Alternatively, if I earn $35,999.99, my pay would be $35,999.99
Does the two words "tax avoidance" come to mind. I would simply ask my employer to keep one penny of my salary and I would save almost $3600.00 of my income. That's huge and I could still afford to pay at least part my huge CUC bill.
Mac wants alternatives..Let's give him some!!!
He doesn't want alternatives. It's an illusion. He just wants to say no one came up with anything better so that his cronies and supporters can remain true to him. He would never give credit where credit is due. He is for lack of a better phrase… a sack of doo doo.
What has been telegraphed to the world in the last 2 weeks, it is that our jurisdiction is divided and being led by a flippant dim-witted autocrat. Our best clients and greatest proponents are now questioning why we would let that continue, and given that apathy, whether Cayman is the right place to do business.
I believe that this tax is supposed to raise $50 mil.
How about this:
Get Mike Ryan to pay his $6 mil this will cut the tax rate to less than 9%
Do no give away these solar systems to your cronies that will cut the tax rate to less than 7%
Do not give the churches $10 mil this will cut the taxrate to less than 6%
Reduce the concessions given to Shetty and Dart this will reduce the tax rate to less than 0%
With the surplus pay back the $100,00 that the UDP spent of our money to run the anti OMOV campaign!!
Just a thought
McKeeva, I have an alternative!
First of all, return your personal $10m "nation building" fund to the public purse.
Next, cancel all the government "gasboy" cards and actively pursue those that have stolen from it with a view to recovering the money.
Then bring charges in relation to the illegal paving on the Brac and recover the money spent there.
Audit CINICO and bring charges in relation to any false accounting you find has gone on there to recover the money. Then close that money pit down and get a local insurer to provide coverage to the civil service. Make them pay for coverage for family members out of their salaries.
Cancel plans to provide free solar panels and home repairs to Caymanians.
Bring in some outside experts to review the civil service and see if any jobs can be trimmed there. Cut unnecessary staff and those who are not performing.
Stop taking your personal pension as well as a salary and set a precedent for other MLAs to follow.
Bring expense claim policies for civil servants and MLAs into line wth the private sector. Limit international travel and support staff to only what is necessary.
Insist that every single dollar of public money spent is accounted for annually in proper, public accounts. I think you may find that a lot of it was "disappearing".
If you do all of those things and are still short of money, then you can look at more revenue generation options. I don't think that will be necessary.
The meeting and its responses were shocking to me yesterday. The leadership who presented the meeting showed much incompetence supported by ignorant and lack of knowledge followed by racial tensions. Uneducated.
How can a premier like him get elected on this Island who is the main person in 2 police investigations?
if this proposed regulation becomes reality, I will guarantee you that I will not pay a dime oftaxes here and I will leave the Island and many will follow. It is a fact. Any future possible taxes collected will go into their own pockets.
It is very unfortunate to see that this Island will lose their reputation and further impair the economy by doing this.
The current leadership should be replaced by expats. LOL
So we shouldn't call a tax exclusively for expats an expat tax?
"He condemned the media for calling the tax on foreign workers’ earnings an "expat tax" as he seemed to think those headlines, rather than his policy, would be the ruin of Cayman"…. at least he is not so stupid that he can't see that this will be the ruin of Cayman…. hold on, he is still doing it though !!
It’s not a tax , it’s a fine
Mr. Bush made an earlier comment saying he had no intention to hit Caymanians "harder than they are being hit already" and therefore, the proposed payroll tax would not be extended to Caymanians. I'm not sure that I completely buy into or understand this statement. While I understand that there are a number of people, both Caymanians and ex-pats, who are economically hurting, the payroll tax threshold addresses this issue. Anyone who makes under $36,000 per year whether they're Caymanians or ex-pats is excluded from the payroll tax. But to exclude all the wealthy Caymanians, and there are a number of very wealthy Caymanians, implies that they too have somehow been hit hard economically. This simply does not make sense to me. If you're going to introduce a tax, make it fair and equitable to all people and to those that can most afford it. To do otherwise would be unfair, inequitable and discriminatory. Excluding wealthy Caymanians from the payroll tax simply does not make sense to me.
Or the wealthy expats that now have permanent residency. Why are we leaving them out?????
Because, my friend, I am not "working" in Cayman (you won't let me start a business and I don't feel like working for one of your "locally-owned" businesses.) Since I do not "work" while I am on island, I will not be paying Cayman anything.
but your resident? as in PR (permenant resident), what tax is based in over 95% of the world
Because PRs will soon get status and voting rights. It's all about the votes, see? Shortsighted though, coz he aint coming back in May 2012 nor the rest of his puppets, we'll make sure of that.
If the UK is insistng on a surplus for the 2012/13 spending year of $76 million then obviously that may be achieved either by spending cuts or additional revenue. That is quite different from a directive that we introduce direct taxation.
There goes the other foreign investors that we all hoped would come to Cayman!
I wonder if Bush will still continue his world travels on public money while claiming to be seeking foreign investors for the Cayman Islands, all the while making it more difficult (increased expat fees) for foreigners to relocate and invest here.
Dismissing all of the alternatives offered so far speaks to his UNWILLINGNESS to compromise in the slightest little bit. He could institute some or all of the proposals offered and not have to resort to DIRECT TAXATION – but nnoooo. I can hear him now "It's my ball, and I gonna do what I want with it", just like a spoilt child.
He seems totally lost and is floundering in the deep, deep fiscal-management ocean, he is waaayyyy outof his depth on this one. All of the financial industry advisers, movers and shakers against this idea, he relies on Mrs. Teresa Lewis-Pitcairn, Mr. Mario Rankin and Mr. Kerry Lawrence to rebut the intelligence of Mr. Don Seymour, Mr. Tony Travers, the Law Society, Cayman Finance and the Bush-appointed CITA. Talk about an uphill fight.
This TAX based on how much someone earns is a BAD IDEA, full stop!!! If this is the best Bush can do, then Bush must go in May 2013!!
I am one of the investors Cayman has hoped to woo. This unjust and uncalled for tax has forced me to seek greener pastures. If a government that makes as much as Cayman cannot preduce a balanced budget with imposing a tax they are utterly inept. He (McKeeva) said that he would not impose a tax…he is now imposing a tax so what is next? My money is not safe in from the greedy, grubby hands of government in Cayman. The bitterness of a select few of Caymanians against all non-Caymanians that came out last night was the last straw ensuring that my money will never come to Cayman.
McKeeva had this all figured out. Using Immigration is to void having to create an entirely new department to collect the tax, which in my opinion smart and less costly.
I'm sure the immigration staff are really pleased about this. They already have jobs to do and sometimes don't get home until 3pm as it is. He's going to have to hire and train a whole lot of new people to collect the tax, and to enforce the law against non-payers which is just the same as creating a tax department.
Are the tax payments to be annual?
If the payments are to be made annually, what do employers do ? Accumulate the money in a savings account ? What happens if they dip into it and end up short?
will government bring and end to the current double dipping that some politicians and civil servants are doing? Why are some politicians allowed to receive their salary and pension at the same time? why not suspend pension until they are no longer serving politicians? Why the double standard?
Will an already busy, non-responsive and overburdened Immigration Department be able to administer, monitor and enforce this tax?
Inquiring minds wanna know!!!!
Immigration cannot even collect the fees thery are owed right now, how the hell are they going to police this. "Oh Yes" they are going to have to hire more staff.
Clean your own self after you go to the bathroom and pay your own taxes please- an expat
I’m not in favor with the discriminatory 10% payroll tax rate of the Premier. Everyone should be a catalyst for that growth of the country and not just give the burden for the selected few. I think people will favor a non-discriminatory 2% payroll tax rate, where all nationality will have a share regardless of the income brackets. I got this 2% from the spread that Mr. Miller is proposing, in addition to the 2% take away from the bank.
If the Premier is serious with levying tax to people, he needs to implement it to all with a lower tax rate so that the burden will be shared and spread to all. It is a low brainer to say that the ultimate beneficiaries of this scheme would be the Caymanians but hopefully the tax collection will not go to the pockets of the politicians.
The current payroll tax proposal is discriminatory and anyone who has a brain can't see that's there's an equal footing with that proposal. The era of slavery has long been gone.
In short summary, Mac has not done his homework on his own or anyone elses proposals, he is just going to ramrod this throughand then blame the Governor and FCO when it backfires, as anything with no homework done normally backfires. I suspect this is deliberate.
Have to wonder what his real motive is here? Full independence probably? If he cant balance his budget or stop corruption now (assuming he wants to stop it, which looks unlikely in view of the investigations going on currently) then he is looking for reasons to get free of anyone watching him. For balancing the budget is not that tough, you just need to be tough to implement it.
If he can do that then he can release his true spirit, steal as much as he wants, control the police commissioner and create his own paradise for him and his cronies. Only trouble with that model is that Caymanians and Ex-pats alike will have to pay for it, business will really consider leaving as there would be no "guarantee" or at least "association" with a world class power with some say in affairs of state. Once the business starts to leave then I for one am truly afraid that insead of being one of the, if not the leading, caribbean nation, Cayman will slip to Turks and Caicos or Jamaican governmental issues…do any of us want to be there??
So Mac, is that your game? Because you are not supplying any real reasons for avoiding real issues, or showing any respect for the people who voted you in or those Caymanians and expats who "support" you (involuntarily) by buying locally and filling the treasury with import tax dollars to fund your ongoing incompetence (at best) XXXX.
Expats Already contribute The signifcant portion of the governments revenues more than 50% already originate from Expat workers. Whyare "Caymanians" Suggesting that Expats do not contribute at all and need to pay more. The Expat Commuinty accounts for approximately two thirds of the total head count on the island. That means the majority of imports such as food, gas, and so on… this is all direct revenue to the Government Levied as Import dutys further Workpermit Fee's account for tens of millions of dollars per year most likly much much more.
If the Government wants to maintain such a high level of wasteful spending They will need to consider much more significant revenue sources Such as gaming if casino's were introduced A port would be built for free for cayman this offer was already made years ago. property values in the resort areas would soar as billions of dollars flood into the local markets builing up the infrastructure for the industry Dart would have lots of competition on his hands.
I believe that there is no way this Tax is foreced, This is the result of years of irrisponcible choices that are contiunuing and will only get worse. The government will spend every penny it can get its hands on if its taken through fee's and dutys or lent to them by finiancial institutions.
Let's have a referendum on the matter before any tax or "fee" is implemented that is in direct correlation/relation to how much a person makes in Cayman.
Some may think we have this now with work permits, but no, we dont. Work permit fees are only related to the position or occupation someone holds, not how much money they are paid in that position.
bye bye macidiot, your done, not only in the next election but every election from here to the moment you realize you are an old Cayman joke and stop putting your name forward.
09:02 where were you when McKeeva held his meeting in West Bay. The man has gotten more supporters that he has ever had. He even got supporters on his side from the Other side. I heard them talking. So don't think you can move McKeeva Bush. You might as well decide to pay your 10% cause we are not backing down. Millions of dollars you people are making here and you all disrespect the Premier and all the people of Cayman. No Way Bo bo, not today.
I don't know about 09:02 but I know where I was.
I was in my jacuzzi, eating lobster and watching my gigantic TV. I love turning the heat up in my jacuzzi and the aircon down real low.
Thank the lord for the simple things in life, eh?
please take 10% of my money and educate yourself a little bit . Please.
You moron, it'll never happen because you and the rest of the uneducated sheep that follow your ' premier' can't even work out the basic economics of your short sighted policies. We only have to pay one cent less than the limit and save 1000's. Those who earn considerably more will probably work for international companies who will just pay the balance into another off shore centre elsewhere in the world so denying Cayman much needed revenue. That is of course whether those companies remain in Cayman in the first place.
Common sense, economics and mathmatics, didn't you do that lesson in Northward?
actually I will just leave, with the rest of my department, and there go more jobs in Cayman
Well done, be proud
of coursewhen things come crumbling down, you will try and blame expats for leaving, most poeple won't hang around while your trying to pull their trousers down and beand them over a desk
Mac' group stepping down would go a long way in solving Cayman's economic problems. Very few would shoot down, or oppose that. Mac, we all know who you for – YOURSELF.
Does anyone believe a word of what this man says?
Year one – "Oh we are collecting x amount and we will have a surplus!"
Year two – "Oh we are collecting x amount and we will have a surplus!"
Year three – "Oh we collecting x amount and we will have a surplus and never have taxes"
Year four – "Oh we collecting tax on permit holders earning 20K, no wait that 30K, no wait that 36K, yeah that it, 36K, and the tax will never be extended or passed on to Caymanians ok"……
Back to reading Mad Comics
How can we believe anything he says? He has lied so often in the past. Tax introduction is a bad idea. Taxes don't go away, they just grow. It might not apply to Caymanians now, but you mark my words it won't be long before it does apply. Besides, applying tax to just one set of people is so wrong on every human rights level.
IT IS WRONG. But if that's what happens, we'll just have to see what else happens.
I for one feel cheated and belittled. I will make the descision on whether I continue to stay here or move on. I just have a feeling that All the news about corruption, abuse, and mis management. coupled with the fact that I can now see that it is MY MONEY being used and abused will tilt the scale.
10:48 you said that you will have to make a decision whether to stay here or move on. I will bet you my 10% that you will not be going anywhere. Come next year you will be right here doing the same thing that you did for the past years. Where else will we go to find it any better..
Ummmm U S ? Rockhead
Um, who mentioned US?
Are you betting with your own money, or my 10% pirate?
I'm following Macs example and spending your money!
USA- The largest economy in the world. I have a passport. I am not work shy.
But you could be right, I will weigh the options and do what I deem best for me. There are so many different things that contribute to the quality of life, and the cultural differences are starting to weigh on me.
Um, where in my post did I say USA?
I am not the original poster but I can tell you, and bet you your 10% if this tax is introduced, when my current permit expires, I will definitely be leaving for another no tax jurisdiction or low tax jurisdiction where I am taxed equally with the rest of the population, along with the CS, and get benefits in return for the taxes I pay. This is the joy of being experienced in mulri-jurisdictional work – you get to realise just how plentiful your options are in terms of other places to work. I guess you aren't aware of that yet, but here you go in case it assists:
http://www.taxhavens.biz/tax_free_havens/
http://www.taxhavens.biz/caribbean_tax_havens/
http://www.taxhavens.biz/european_tax_havens/
http://www.taxhavens.biz/other_tax_havens/
http://www.taxhavens.biz/corporate_tax_havens/
http://www.taxhavens.biz/best_tax_havens/
As you can see if taxes are introduced here there are plenty of other options for both businesses and individuals.
I think we need to address the Caymanian lady (35-45 years old) that was asking Mr. Bush a question and his reply was "Sit down little girl"
Mr. Bush, you are degrading the very people you claim to be protecting.
Let's see all the expats who will suddenly be earning $2,999.99 LMFAO this is a disaster waiting to happen not to mention Immigration is tasked with the job of collecting…another joke!
This fool needs to make up his damn mind….in just a few short days it's gone from 20k to 30k to 36k??? I was so embarrassed last night hearing him speak knowing this is the person who represents my country on an international level. Thank goodness he's not going to be engaged in convos with the likes of President Obama etc… who would absolutely school him and laugh at us. He sounded so unintelligent and rude; not to mention some of my fellow Caymanians who got up and sounded equally as dumb. SMDH! It takes more than street smarts and a small level of common sense to run a country…even one this small. One of the few sensible remarks made last night was by Alden McLean who pointed out when he worked in NY it was by choice and he paid taxes without the right to vote in the US etc. He was basically saying expats chose to come and work here and now with this "Community enhancement fee" on their earnings they can either pay it or leave. Signed, Caymanian
What is being forgotten is that the person working alongside him in the US was paying the same taxes regardless if they were born an american or were a foreign national.
It was Rolston Anglin that made the NY comments fyi all.
With respect to that remark about paying taxes in NY, that comment that was made in yesterdays meeting does not fly here. Yeah, he paid taxes in NY but everybody pay taxes there regardless whether you are expat or not. Here in the Caymans, it is just Expats.
That comment from yesterday's meeting about paying taxes in NY was totally BS.
agreed!
Perhaps it was in reference to the misused slogan "No Taxation Without Representation' in which case it was not BS.
Maybe, but in the US you get the same services as citizens in exchange for your taxes. In Cayman you pay for everything and still don't get a school or anything.
No, he did not get a vote. But, yes, he DID use public services, his children WOULD have been able to attend a local public school for FREE, and had he had the misfortune of an emergency medical situation, he WOULD have had an option for FREE medical services at a public hospital to stabalize his condition.
I don't know about you, but all of a sudden I'm in a Ney York State of Mind…
It is unfortunate that someone or better yet, Alden himself, didn’t add or mention that when he lived and worked in NY he paid equal taxes to any other person (American or Foreign) in his same tax bracket.
“Community Enhancemet Fee” is a joke of a name for a fee based on ones earnings. It is an income tax period.
Maybe it should just be called “we think you earn too much money so you need to give some to us” fee. After all “you came here in a plane, not by pain.”
And “if you don’t like our new rule, you can hop on one of the flights that leave each day.”
Welcome to The Cayman Islands – Hope you enjoy our Caymankindness.
you are right. It doesn't seem right. It's an expat tax pure and simple.
pay your own taxes please.
signed Expat
Mr. McLean is forgetting one important factor during his time in the US, which is every person around him was paying the same tax as him regardless of where they are from.
Alden McLean might have paid tax in NYC but then so did everyone else… he wasn't singled out as an ex-pat. If he'd resided and worked in the UK he would have paid tax (like every other worker) and been allowed to vote in all elections. Taxation is not as bad as discrimination.
Who is Alden McLean. I have heard of Alden McLaughlin, and Arden McLean, but I can't figure out who is Alden McLean.
Alden McLean? It was either Alden McLaughlin or Arden McLean. Make up your mind.
I’m sure your mean Arden McLean.
You are right. It is a reasonable thing to suggest that the government do what must be done and that expats have the choice to either stay or go. No one is suggesting that this will be forced on anyone. It will simply be another factor in the decision making of expats about where to live and attempt to make their way in the world. I think the problem is that a tax will make it difficult for many people to justify staying. I suspect that many will leave. Where does that leave the country and economy? A declinein the population of the islands will also be a shrinkage of the economy. Less money being spent on the necessities of life all of which bring income to the government. Wouldn't anything that causes people to leave these islands result in less income for the government and in turn a need to find even more revenue sources? (i.e higher taxes or a spread of the taxes to Caymanian people too).
So, yes, it would be a choice for people working here to either stay and accept a tax or go and try to find greener pastures. But do the Cayman Islands really want to start implementing measures that make it a less and less attractive place to do business, work, own homes etc etc?
Like it or not, a foreign work force is required here to make the economy function. Implementing a tax would remove one of the most attractive reasons why people choose the Cayman Islands as a place to work. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I suspect that I will be watching from a distance.
That was Minister of Education, Rolston Anglin. Get you facts straight people before you go making comments and confusing everyone.
Tomatos/tomatos they all sprew garbage!
What is this – reverse Dan Quail? Learn to spell and don't be so ignorant.
He paid taxes and RECEIVED services! If you are an expat and have school aged children, they have to go to a private school. That adds up quickly.
What about the plans with the civil servants having to pay there own health insurance and pension ? There salaries are lower than privat sector based on these payments.
The civil servants we deal with every day, are the ones in the lower income range. They might see their income reduce by 100's a month. What do you think will happen to their motivation ?
And even if we all would pay 30% income tax, the government (politicians) will find a way to overspend. And in that case the 30% needs to go to 35% and so on.
The problem is the waste of money, the corruption and the corporate influence in our government.
The first sentence of this article is vague, and appears to be incorrect. The information given at the meeting clarified that tax does not "start at 10% on earnings of that level and above", it is 10% of all earnings, but only applies to people making $36,000 or more. So, if you make $37,000, your tax will be $3,700.
I don't see the difference. Thatis what I understood.
It means somebody on a salary of 37,000 will take home less than somebody making 36,000 – which is of course ridicules.
I had assumed, maybe naively, that the threshold was 36,000…. i.e. you are taxed on anything you make over that amount. In which case a person on 37,000 would be taxed 10% of $1000, so $100
As somebody has said earlier, a lot people will be taking pay cuts in order to take home more money.
By the way – if the Gov't think that the salary amounts on WPs are legally binding to the companies and individuals they're sorely mistaken. As I write this every expat on the island is 'renegotiating' their contracts.
Go ahead bush, try to take every organization and expat to task on tax avoidance.
How embarrassing was the meeting in WB last night…?
How many times can people say 'we believe' or 'we think' when asked for facts?
Bush and his cronies are acting out of self-interest, simple as that. It's the only way this tax makes sense. The fact that he can't give any valid reasons why better options are being ignored, the way he's ignored and hasn't even sought out the advice of local business leaders and the sheer overall stupidity of it speaks to their being something untoward going on in the back ground. You know there's something seriously fucked when Ezzard starts making sense.
Wake up Cayman.
"start at 10% on earnings of that level [i.e. $36,000] and above" means exactly the same as "10% of all earnings, but only applies to people making $36,000 or more".
No it doesnt.
Thanks for the clarification. I did find the wording vague. So here is my proposal..
I will take a salary of $35,000 then receive a cost of living allowance, housing allowance,…