Drop rollover, says Travers
(CNS): In response to direct questions from the new leader of government business about how financial services business activity can be increased, Anthony Travers, the chair of CIFSA, told McKeeva Bush that immediate consideration would have to be given to the application of the rollover policy to professionals in the financial industry. “Whilst there are clear and good reasons to maintain a rollover policy, it is unrealistic to expect that talented professionals in the financial industry will be attracted to the Cayman Islands with the uncertainty of the seven year term,” Travers told the new Leader.
Travers explained thecurrent situation within the financial services sector at a meeting which took place at the Ritz Carlton Grand Cayman on Thursday, 28 May, with LOGB Bush, Chief Secretary George McCarthy, Financial Secretary Kenneth Jefferson, other members of the Cayman Islands Financial Services Association (CIFSA) and industry stakeholders.
Travers said that currently Cayman’s competitors were benefiting from the exodus of fund managers and finance professionals from the United Kingdom and other G20 countries, while Cayman itself was not. “There was no concern that justified the application of the rollover policy to highly talented professionals with qualifications and indeed, by doing so, there is clear evidence that fund administration business has moved out of the Cayman Islands and that job opportunities for young Caymanians have, as a result, been significantly reduced,” he added.
The CIFSA Chair also told Bush and the other ministers that the application of appropriate regulation could not be used as an excuse to delay an immediate response time from the Cayman Islands Monetary Authority with respect to new financial activity licensing. He said that with the decline in the volume of transactional flows, nothing had been done to effectively develop alternative strategies.
“The inescapable conclusion for Cayman is that higher quality infrastructure has to be attracted to the Islands and the issue of immigration and the speed of the licensing process are central to the success of that objective,” Travers explained, adding that another immediate problem was the failure to attract a genuine financial infrastructure to Cayman. He explained that this was playing into the hands of the argument that there is a “lack of substantial activity” in the Cayman Islands, a core feature of the OECD attack on tax havens.
“Without introducing a radically revised approach to attracting fully staffed financial service companies, the ‘18,000 company in one building’ point which has regrettably been allowed to gain traction, translates into a major and unanswerable plank of the OECD’s anti offshore financial centre policy,” Travers added.
At the meeting Bush outlined his proposals for a delegation to visit representatives of the British Government in London with a view to resolving immediately the issue of the additional bilateral treaties to secure inclusion on the OECD White List. The LoGB also said he would restore the relationship between government and the private sector in relation to the financial services industry and indicated that he would be establishing a small financial services committee which he would chair personally and pledged to hold regular quarterly meetings with a reconstituted Private Sector Consultative Committee, which would include the major participants represented.
McCarthy told the CIFSA representatives that he had had valuable conversations with Jeffery Owens of the OECD, and said he would be leading an immediate initiative to secure the execution of additional bilateral treaties. Jefferson also assured the private sector that there was no current intention to increase fees on the financial industry.
Travers welcomed the comments from the ministers and indicated that CIFSA would certainly use its best endeavours to provide government with all relevant information on the basis of which it could determine a pro-active policy.
Travers warned, however, that there were dark forces at work and that he saw in the current initiatives a re-introduction of the original principles which underlaythe 1997 OECD Report on Harmful Tax Competition, which was a thinly veiled attempt by the G20 countries to impose monopolistic control over all international financial services. “It would be naïve to believe that the OECD would not shift the goal posts once again in pursuit of their ultimate objective,” Travers added.
Category: Business
"Knal, when I mentioned number of insulting expat posts it was not really confined to this thread. For example, there is a knucklehead making posts under the handle ‘Pseudo-Caymanian’ who makes no intelligent contribution but whose sole purpose appears to be to tick off Caymanians."
Dude, my posts sought to take extreme positions belittling expats unrealistically in order to point out the unrealistic nature of blaming all evils on being either expat or Caymanian. It was a form of political expression by way of demonstrating the silliness of extremist positions. Clearly you did not take it as such (perhaps too subtle a political statement in light of the bluntness of the ridicule?).
Someone also wrote that McKeeva Bush caused Hurricane Ivan – that got ridiculed too (it is a common activity here). Extremist positions provide disharmony only, and it deserves to be ridiculed in favour of rational debate. Undermining the extremist positions as absurd hopefully fosters constructive centralist debate.
Note that I NEVER ridiculed Caymanians – you are my hosts and I would not do such a thing.
In any event, I am truly sorry that it irritated you. My intention was not to do so.
PS – My handle is used because I wish I were Caymanian, but I am not and likely cannot ever be, so therefore I take on the Pseudo-Caymanian persona. Don’t let that bug you either, it’s a sign of respect.
"You also omit to mention the many expat posts which gratuitously insulted Caymanians"
I believe I counted 2 out of 80 comments, I htink we have differing opinions of many.
As I said I know many very friendly Caymanians, but if you listen to the talkshows, it does get very disparaging.
Off topic, what I can’t understand it when a company lays off jobs why it seems half are Caymanians and half expats, surely as the law states Caymanians must be employed first then any expats still employed in that roll (say fund accounting or legal secretaries) should be laid off before any Caymanians are laid off.
Knal, when I mentioned number of insulting expat posts it was not really confined to this thread. For example, there is a knucklehead making posts under the handle ‘Pseudo-Caymanian’ who makes no intelligent contribution but whose sole purpose appears to be to tick off Caymanians.
Off topic: There is a certain dissonance between the Labour Law (governing redundancies) and from the Immigration Law (in respect of hiring). Making a Caymanian redundant over an expat even where they are performing identical jobs is only automatically unfair if the redundancy is in breach of a customary or agreed procedure for redundancy and there are no special reasons for departing from it. Thus if the redundancy policy is LIFO (last in, first out) and the Caymanian was last in, he goes.
I would suggest that the Honourable Mr. Anglin fix this immediately.
"because caymanians are very graceful and accepting people"
yep you can see that from reading all the comments, nearly all the comments insult expats in some shape or form. Fortunately most Caymanians I know are some of the friendliest people I know, still it doesn’t stop others from insulting you when you are in the supermarket, etc
The rollover may not be pretty, but it certainly is the one of the best case solutions at present, Cayman can’t simply have 3,000 extra "Caymanians" every year, the social unrest would cause a meltdown.
The UK needs new citizens due to their ever aging population, and you cannot pretend that theor lapse immigration policies is not creating great friction to the native population or an increase of crime, just read the UK press.
I have not seen any comments that suggest anything better than rollover, but it does not mean that rollover is not harming Cayman.
The guy who stated that it seems expats just want to hoard all their money and leave after a few years, and don;t care about Cayman, that is now the majority of people Cayman is attracting due to the rollover policy, so using that as a reason for having rollover is just silly. Cause and effect.
"yep you can see that from reading all the comments, nearly all the comments insult expats in some shape or form. Fortunately most Caymanians I know are some of the friendliest people I know, still it doesn’t stop others from insulting you when you are in the supermarket, etc".
Actually there were quite a number of posts which simply gave intelligent arguments rather than dishing out insults. You also omit to mention the many expat posts (with some very notable exceptions) which gratuitously insulted Caymanians as if this would somehow improve their situation.
Lesson: use honey, not vinegar.
The rollover is here to stay! Get use to it. We owe you nothing but honest pay for a honest days’ work. We are asserting ourselves in our country. We not asking anymore. This debate is over….oops I would feel much better about that thought, if we did not have to deal with a pro-expat "am for caymanians BUT" government!
I dispise that Mr. Bush thinks he is the only one who understands who or what built this country. It bothers me that one can confuse personal wealth accumulation from foreign-money, dealing-making, buy-out investors with wholesale mass-population growth. Trust me this is debateable. Having to "tap-out" a lil line to fish or backing a lil sand for sand yards is not indicative of poverty!
Yes Mr. Bush, plantain trash beds were not the best, yes mosquitoes were horrible BUT I am tired of you belittling the contributions of our fore-fathers to justify your "singapore vision". You get with the programme and remember the shoulders of the Caymanians of which you are standing on….yes the ones taht voted for you the first time you ran in West Bay and did not get elected, the Caymanians that voted for you for years and you were second elected…we are claiming you back (if that is possible)….all these new children that are calling you "papa" well you please remember that you have a pile of children that is waiting on their lil allotement at home. I know you remmeber those words :ALLOTEMENT. Let me tell you: I am disgusted everytime you fling in Caymanian faces "Caymanians I am for you BUT….I support you BUT" followed by a long ramble of expat/foreign investor justification. We owe nothing to noone but money for their work…so you stop selling out our country papa.
So my expat friends…if unna coming to work and enjoy unna lil-self and mingle a lil-bit and do unna part to help us keep the miracle going dont expect us to give unna our souls too and for goodness sake leave papa-Bush alone…cause we not rowing no more…we taking him back ok.
tanks.
FYI – THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS JOB SECURITY, ANYWHERE (ESPECIALLY IN THE CURRENT ENVIRONMENT ONSHORE OR OFFSHORE)
The REALITY is that Cayman remains one of the easiest places to do business just ask anyone who hasever set up a presence in London, NYC or Hong Kong.
The rollover system has to be a given a real chance to work via proper adminstration and in PARTNERSHIP with industry, NO GOVERNMENT SHOULD HAVE TO IMPLEMENT ANY POLICIES THAT MANDATE TRAINING OF THE LOCAL POPULATION. If an honest effort by each industry & every employer and CAYMANIAN did their bit and engaged in candid discussions on the way forward and opportunities available this wouldn’t be the hot button issue that it has become. Here’s an idea why not allow each business to nominate a maximum 30% of it’s staff as KEY?
The system is working and can work to benefit all parties. Has anybody seen the immingration stats on grants/renewals? Over the past 4-5 years they have INCREASED! This is in spite of the ‘difficulties’ in dealing with the rollover issue & WP system. Well over 90% of financial industry permits are approved and 75% of "Key employee" designations are approved.
Having realistic expectations has to be the starting point for the "Cayman miracle" to continue.
As a Caymanian, I can not go toCanada , the U.S. , Jamaica
…except for England that is … pity the same does not work in reverse.
Do really expect Cayman to absorb all of the people from England? Despite having all the access to the UK, STILL, it is only a handful of caymanians that have actually migrated there and I hardly think that they are out there getting involve with Britain’s issues and matters that is no concern of theirs and to add some fuel, disrespecting the citizens. I want to think that they are over there working/studying and if there were told to leave the country tomorrow for whatever reason they would do so without quarrel about rights and so forth, because caymanians are very graceful and accepting people, probably too accepting….
Pro Caymanian to the bone!!!!!
The rollover policy is not just about the financial industry, it effects all – or most – businesses in Cayman. Not everyone wants to stay here forever and not everone that comes here should, agreed. But some people do and in many instances, these are jobs that cannot/will not be filled by Caymanians. The point is one shoe does not fit all and the rollover policy can and does cause good staff to move on and care less about the country that they cannot think about calling home. Respectfully, there needs to be a middle ground on this issue.
As a Caymanian, I can not go toCanada , the U.S. , Jamaica
Each country has rules and theCayman Islands rules are no different.
We welcome you and we too are hurt when some of our friends and co-workers are rolled over, but we welcome them back after the required period which is set.
Thank you, expats for all your efforts.
Caymanian
As a Caymanian, I can not go toCanada , the U.S. , Jamaica
…except for England that is … pity the same does not work in reverse.
"…except for England that is … pity the same does not work in reverse".
It did until the UK passed the Overseas Territories Act in 2002 and granted us British Citizenship. Up until that time we had no special rights in the UK. I vividly remember as a student the shock of being removed from the British Passport line and told to go to the back of the foreign nationals line notwithstanding that my passport said "British Passport" at the top and "Cayman Islands" at the bottom. But I did not make a scene. Bizarre as they were, they were your rules and I accepted them.
Here is the difference: we did not whine and complain in order to obtain British Citizenship. It was freely given by operation of law by the UK on a non-reciprocal basis. The UK could afford to do that because we are so few in a number and far fewer of us would be inclined to move there. There is no threat of the Caymanian population overwhelming the English population. When there had been only the hint of such a threat by commonwealth citizens from the Indian subcontinent, Africa and the Caribbean back in the 1960s Britain changed its laws to take away the right of abode it had already given. I believe this puts your little malicious comment into the proper context.
It did until the UK passed the Overseas Territories Act in 2002 and granted us British Citizenship. Up until that time we had no special rights in the UK. I vividly remember as a student the shock of being removed from the British Passport line and told to go to the back of the foreign nationals line notwithstanding that my passport said "British Passport" at the top and "Cayman Islands" at the bottom. But I did not make a scene. Bizarre as they were, they were your rules and I accepted them.
Here is the difference: we did not whine and complain in order to obtain British Citizenship. It was freely given by operation of law by the UK on a non-reciprocal basis. The UK could afford to do that because we are so few in a number and far fewer of us would be inclined to move there. There is no threat of the Caymanian population overwhelming the English population. When there had been only the hint of such a threat by commonwealth citizens from the Indian subcontinent, Africa and the Caribbean back in the 1960s Britain changed its laws to take away the right of abode it had already given. I believe this puts your little malicious comment into the proper context.
I assure you there was no malicious intent behind my comment which was merely to point out that England now welcomes Caymanians, grants them citizenship and status and they are able to apply for any job they are qualified for unhindered by any by any roll-over or other similar immigration policy (contrary to what the poster I was replying to had indicated). The information you provide from a Caymanian perspective is informative and I thank you for that. I regret to learn of the way you were treated prior to the 2002 law, and I am glad that law changed things to a more positive perspective. As a fully integrated ex pat who frequently sits and chats with the elders and other locals in my district and fully supports Caymanian culture almost to the exclusion of my own, I am saddened to have had my comment misinterpreted like that, and apologise if perhaps my choice of phrase was wrong. What I was trying to express was my regret (as I am soon to be rolled over myself) that I couldn’t stay here with the people and country that I have grown to love so dearly. I am heartbroken at the prospect of leaving thisbeautiful island and its people… my friends.
I’ll do my year away and I’ll be back, I just wish it didn’t have to go so!
Sorry if I misinterpreted your post as malicious. Glad to hear that you are not bitter about being ‘rolled over’.
Sorry if I misinterpreted your post as malicious. Glad to hear that you are not bitter about being ‘rolled over’.
Thank you – and I apologise if my post was misleading. No not bitter, just extremely sad to have to go. I have never felt more at home and in a community as much as since I came to live in the Caymans. It’s the only place I have ever had a sense of belonging, something I never felt in my own homeland. I don’t live in a complex/dcondonimium – I live, eat and socialise in a predominatly Caymanian community. I have always found my Caymanian friends to be warm and welcoming. I love them dearly – they’ll be friends for life no matter where I go. The only place where I have ever found hostility is right here on this news service in the comments and replies to articles.
I absolutely agree with the point made about redundancies. One of my Caymanian friends was recently made redundant along with many others (a mixture of ex-pats and Caymanians). She wasn’t last in either she had been working there for a number of years. My first question to her was why was she made redundant… she wasn’t the last in by any means and in any case, I couldn’t understand why the company made any Caymanians redundant at all, when they also employ a substantial amount of ex-pats on work permits… some of them, I hasten to add, doing jobs which (in my opinion) should rightfully belong to Caymanians (being in the same industry I know there are many qualified Caymanians for such positions).
In my opinion, ex-pats should be the first to go and making any Caymanians redundant should be a last resort.
Wake up people, nothing is any different now than it was 30 years ago in this respect. Any "policy" is only as good as the paper it is written on and it’s implementation, or lack thereof.
We all know that the expatriate worker can still be refused a new work permit at any time, no reason needed. The expatriate Civil Servant can still be refused a new contract any time, no reason needed or in fact normally given. Nothing is any different under this "policy" than it ever was, so what is really the problem. The ones who work hard and keep their mouths shut will be given key employee status and allowed to continue on, those who do little or talk too much won’t. Caymanians will continue to be given the jobs they are qualified and competent enough to do and denied those that they are not. Those who still harbour that sense of entitlement will unjustly cry foul, spending the little money they have on their cell phone calling radio shows to complain and the hard working ntelligent ones will continue to reap the benefits.
Bottom line – Without expatriate workers we will all be going fishnin and making thatch rope again. The choice my friends is ours. I’m good either way.
I’m not familiar with every facet of the rollover policy but it is my understanding it’s primarily to reserve the right to be Caymanian to those truly deserving of it and as such it shouldn’t be open to just anyone who sets foot on these shores. Is that such a bad idea? No. Is the rollover the best? It’s not, but everyone knows this policy is in place and saying people come here and don’t fully invest themselves into their jobs/the island because of the 7yr term limit is ridiculous. You cannot work in a foreign place and 4 yrs in say “well I know this country doesn’t want me so I’ll just half ass it and hate the place until they kick me out 3 yrs from now. Then what I’ll do is 3 yrs from now, go to another country that would be willing to accept me as a citizen”. Really? I don’t know anyone who thinks like that but it sure is a good argument why you would want a rollover policy, you don’t want a person with that mentality, you already have lots of natural born citizens with that mentality.
With most expatriates, there is absolutely no intention to reside here and seven years could even be considered too long so they are therefore not affected. For those who would expect to reside here permanently then good for you. There are exceptions to the rule allowing for that (f course they could be refined). To have an individual with exceptional skills who also contributes to the community they want to now call home isn’t too much to ask, is it?
Another point raised is the rollover policy is driving business away. I’m in the fund management business and it is not the rollover’s fault, Cayman has priced itself out of the industry and is simply becoming less attractive a place to do business. Don’t blame the rollover, blame the greed.
Finally, why PPM vs UDP or bashing each other expats/Caymanian? We’re all in this together. Besides, UDP had their go, PPM had theirs and now UDP again. Have you really not been here before?
This is a good example of how expats view Caymanians. We allow these people into our country because we have need for their expertise and we don’t have Caymanians for all positions. However, as with all other countries they should not expect to stay indefinitely and should not expect that Caymanians will not be given the advantage in theCayman Islands . This is the case with all other countries as the citizens always get first preference. If the rollover policy is used appropriately all of these "professional" positions should have designated Caymanians being trained for these positions at the cost of the companies. Caymanians are not untrainable as you posters would lead yourselves to believe but instead we need an oversight from government to ensure that proper succession plans are in place for these positions. I know of students returning from school with their degrees and not being offered the opportunity to be trained. This is mainly due to the companies feeling no social obligation to Caymanians besides offering as scholarship which gives them some good publicity to immigration. I believe that instead these companies should provide extensive training to these returning students which would include the opportunity to be seconded overseas as many do in legal and accounting profession. In speaking to other nationalities residing in these islands Cayman is their "international experience" and they have broadened their knowledge by coming to these islands. This is the same type of training and "international experience" we need to give our Caymanian people. I have nothing against expats but I am offended at most of the posts presented on this topic. Supposedly these are posted by expats who have superior education and who believe that Cayman owes them something besides the large pay check and vast knowledge that they have gained. Please show some respect for our people and realize that this is our country and as such Caymanians should always come first in their own country. We can’t go to your country and claim half the benefits you have in these islands. I say enjoy your seven years and move onto you next place of "international experience". However, for those who truly appreciate this experience thank you and please assist in training that Caymanian that has been designated for your post.
I have read all the comments with great sadness. There is so much hate, I can’t believe
expats would come to people’s country and talk to them this way just because
they are expressing their concerns about their future. I do not know anywhere
in the world that a native of a country would sit back and simply accept
‘foreigners’ insulting them or becoming territorial with their homeland.
Do you know any country? How about yours? Probably not. Empathise with the Caymanian
people for a minute and picture you being back home in Canada, the U.S.,
the U.K., South Africa, Australia or where ever you are from. If the shoe
was on the other foot how would you feel? Perhaps some of you are
already in that situation back home and hence your reason for fleeing home
to come here and make a living.
I am an expat and I have been living and working here in the financial industry for
4 years now. I would like to give thanks to the Cayman Islands for allowing me to have
a better quality of life. I am North American and I came to Cayman to make a better
life for me and my family. Since being here, I have put my daughter through
university (she is graduating this year : )) and my wife has been able to stay
home and be a full time mom to our youngest daughter who is 9. I have also been able
to pay off for my mortgage back home. By the time that my last 3 years are up, I
hope to be able to go back home and live very comfortably. Perhaps open that bed
and breakfast that my wife and I have been wanting to open for the last 10 years or
so.
I am saying all of this to say, thank you. Thank you to the Cayman Islands and its
people for allowing me the opportunity to live and work here. Although I would love
to stay here, I realise that I have a home as well and I need to make room for someone else.
I do not think the Caymanian people are being unreasonable to put a limit on ones stay.
To all expats I say, be thankful for the time allowed and do not overstay your welcome.
Respect the people of the island. Yes, you may contribute to their industry but we are
all well compensated for our contribution. You all have a home and there should
be no reason why you are fighting the natives for their home. If you cannot respect
the people of the islands then I think you should not even be allowed 7 years –
you should go back home from now. Remember you are all compensated for
your work here. No one is building the industry for free and out of the goodness
of their heart. Everyone here is in it for something and to say you are not is
a fallacy.
Thank you the people of Cayman for embracing my family and I. We have enjoyed
our time thus far. We enjoy the island life, food, culture and its people.
"I do not think the Caymanian people are being unreasonable to put a limit on ones stay. To all expats I say, be thankful for the time allowed and do not overstay your welcome. Respect the people of the island."
I couldnt agree more with the poster. I too am an expat and I am appauld at the behaviour of other expats who are here insulting the locals and demanding rights to stay in someone else’s home indefinately. Iam approaching my 7th year and although I will have to leave soon, I am externally grateful to the people of these islands for giving me the opportunity to live and work here. I have increased my standard of living here and in my homeland considerably and feel that I have these islands to thank for that. I too have been able to pay off for my mortgage and take care of my sick parents since living here. Something I was not able to do back home. Back home I was neck deep in debt to make ends meet and since living here I have managed to pay off my debts and soon I can return home to an easier life. I now prepare to make way in my company and the industry for a lovely and very intelligent Caymanian lady who I have had the pleasure to mentor for the position I hold. I feel no anomosity for having to leave, instead, I feel a great deal of pride for contributing to the island and their people. I also feel a great deal of personal accomplishment because I have met a lot of my own personal goals.
Besides making a better standard of life for myself, I have also established a connection to the island and its people. I have made friends with the Caymanian people by accepting their culture and blending in. I have grown to love dominos and cassava cake! I have also enjoyed alot of the ‘old time’ stories shared by the elder people in both the west and east ends of the island. My Caymanian co-workers I will miss the most! I am not sure where I will get a patty for breakfast when I return home but it will definately be something I miss : )
So I agree with the poster, respect the people of the islands. If you take the time to know them on a personal level you would appreciate where they are coming from.
Andrew Lauder and Martin O’Keane, as a Caymanian I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your comments. Ironically, you exemplify the attitude of the persons to whom we would like to give permanent rights.
Mr. O’Keane,
Let me be the first to say God Bless you and thank you! You should consider writing this letter to both daily papers for posting so all may read this. Often, Caymanians have heard the reverse and usually it is voiced or penned in such a fashion that ofeten marginalizes or put down caymanians.
You have eloquently, and I believe honestly shared the reality that many Caymanians are aware of and have been saying for years: many who we have coined " necessities, needed now key employee" come to improve their lot in life in this economic miracle. Yes, while they are contributing, they are been paid and paid well I may add. Then what adds insult to injury, they refuse to blend (in your case:eat cassava cakes and patties), but instead participate in making a mockery of Caymanians and doing all they can to supress, degrade and even attempt to manipulate local policies and people for personal gain.
So Koodos to you and thank you for your honesty and openness. We are hopeful that the ungrateful expats amongst us with be more willing to fest up to the truth and embrace their gracious host in the Caymanian people.
Caymanians are not anti-anyone but rather pro-Caymanian. Since I am speaking to the choir in you – I suspect you agree.
Three cheers to Mr. Martin O’Keane. have some swanky on us 🙂
Thank you to all expats who genuinely respect the people and try to fit into our community and help make our island a better place. We appreciate your contributions and we welcome more expats like Mr. O’Keane and Mr. Lauder.
An earlier poster referred to Caymanians at the top of the hierarchy that were holding Caymanians down. Funny enough, many of those are some of the big UDP supporters and advisers. Spot the pattern…..greedy and power hungry!
This issue is about ATTRACTING people who are at the top of their fields to the Islands and giving them the option to plant some roots if they should so desire. Not everyone is going to want to stay but some will and most certainly knowing they don’t have an expiry date will increase the likelihood of them choosing to bring their knowledge and experience to Cayman be it short or long term.
Succession planning is already a part of many if not most professional businesses here but 7 years of apprenticeship will never be a substitute for 4-8 years of formal education AND 10+ years on the job – often with several different companies or firms. And let’s not forget the countless hours of overtime young professionals need to put in to learn and grow. It’s not always just about knowing the job it’s also about being COMMITTED to it. Not everyone can always be 110% committed to their job but work ethic is an attitude that I think many people – both Caymanian & ex-pat need to take more seriously. Would you trust the assistant who stays till midnight to help finish the work or the one who leaves at 5 every single day with the new account?
I’ve held several volunteer positions from the time I was in high school just so I could be around my chosen industry. I also had a job and went to school at the same time. After school I continued to volunteer (and work in a retail shop) in the hopes I’d be next in line when a position became available, and guess what? I was.
A career isn’t born great, it starts small and slowly develops by making mistakes around lots of different people who can explain what went wrong. I believe this can only be achieved by moving around – either literally or figuratively. Or both.
If you’re a working Caymanian, this may mean moving to a different department or company after 5 years if you’re unhappy. Or perhaps looking at sabbaticals or taking on new roles. Or even finding new ways for Caymanians to increase their skills and experience in your office. We spend the majority of our days at work, we should find a way to make it enjoyable or seriously consider finding a new job.
If you’re a young Caymanian, I suggest you find something you’re interested in, study hard and take advantage of one of the MANY UNCLAIMED scholarships out there and go study abroad. Get some life experience as well as a degree. Meet people from all over the world who have different perspectives on life. Get a job in a place where you can take pride in your contribution and go there knowing that you know very little. Ask questions, listen to answers and then make decisions.
Why waste your time being bored, miserable or broke? This isn’t rocket science. This is your life.
The money came with the expats and it will leave with the expats. Look at the Bahamas.
Point 2 of Mr. Travers’ latest response hit the nail on the head – rollover costs Caymanians jobs by threatening Cayman’s share of the offshore market. The Cayman economy is not a zero sum game – giving more jobs to expats does not reduce jobs for Caymanians if the effect of the incomer (or stayer) is to expand the Cayman economy or the effect of a leaver is to reduce Cayman’s market share. The same point is not true for non-professional jobs so the need for an exception for the financial services industry is a fair one.
Dear “Caymanian 2 De Bone” apparently my comment (train, train, train) was a little to sarcastic for your liking.
I think Travers is talking about a gifted, educated, experienced group of individuals. We are not talking about your average bookkeeper or nurse, who will benefit from additional training.
To become a top financial//lawyer/doctor/scientist, you need an IQ of 125 or above to get into graduate school and succeed. This represents approximately 4-5 % of any random population. So, if we graduate 300 Caymanians from High School this year, about 15 of them will have the natural intellectual ability.
Then we have the issues of personality, commitment, interest, finances…. Some will undoubtedly become lawyers, doctors, researchers etc. However, some will prefer the arts, have babies and home school them, play X box…
I am all in favor of more training opportunities and enhancing the educational system in Cayman, but this is not about that. Those Caymanians that have this ability, have and will continue to have all the opportunities that befit them. I know who they are and if you are really Caymanian, you to can name the names.
BTW, I am a Caymanian and so would not benefit from this change.
Gheezum! C’mon! Stop all the bickering and lets think mathematically! Lets just rewind a little and let snot get it twisted and make this Political! But to point out something that was suggested during the campaign in the past election. Was to make expats pay for their own permits. Now think of it like this. You let the expat pay for their permit. Thats money coming into the country. Then you charge a small tax fee on remittances being sent out. thats another plus! C’mon my fellow caymanians! Think smart! What good is it for the Gov’t to accept CI$1500 that was already generated in the islands versus the thousands that same individual will send home over their term here?………………
That’s what I thought! 😉
Have a good week Cayman!
In response to Mr. Travers……firstly, if you are not aware there is aperfectly healthy and working exempt employee status process in place to deal with those ‘..experienced existing and new high ranking professionals in the financial industry who are capable of generating new business and new jobs..’ that you refer to and are trying to convince us are avoiding the Cayman Islands because of the ‘7-year rollover plague’.
Secondly, you suggest that ‘..If the size of the financial industry expands more job opportunities for Caymanians are created.’ Exactly where are the Caymanians hiding who are needing the financial industry to expand in order to create more job opportunities for them? Right now we have 20,000 plus Work Permits in this Country…..many, many of them are held by expats in the financial industry….if there are Caymanians in need of jobs in the financial industry I suggest that you focus on finding solutions to provide these jobs currently held by expats to Caymanians and cut down on the thousands of Work Permits.
Thirdly, your suggestion that ‘Those who seek work permits to deal with the demand must show progress with Caymanian integration.’ is pure hogwash…..this has been a requirement for decades and has been ignored….did not happen before…will not happen now.
And Sir, some may be confused but most of us are aware of the true purpose of the rollover policy; it is not to ‘….secure high level jobs for Caymanians..’ it is a protection for generations of Caymanians to come…to ensure that we have OUR Cayman Islands to leave behind for them that is not overrun with expats who have every right that they do. There has to be some control of who, and how many, are allowed to reside permanently in these Islands; I’m sorry but Cayman must be protected for Caymanians….and those who we willingly welcome to live here!
Finally, a word of advice….do not for one minute think you will be able to control Mac’s decision on the rollover….he will not stop at ‘…talented professionals in the financial industry…’ he has too much at stake to stop there. And when the entire rollover process is taken away and the flood gates are open wide in this Country and chaos sets in, I’d like to see what your bright ideas will be at that time to entice ‘…talented professionals…’ to come work in our financial industry! if you are still here that is…..
After speaking with human resource professionals today and reviewing recent work permit numbers please note the following facts:
FACT: Now more than ever are highly trained professionals applying for positions in Cayman’s financial industry.
FACT: There has been no reduction in the granting of work permits since the roll over policy was implemented.
CONCLUSION: The roll over policy has not "run people off the island" or deterred others from applying to live and work here.
To be truly effective what the roll over policy and business staffing plan needs is strong enforcement.
My point is that with no tenure on island, being kicked off in 7 years, the expat will never come to love Cayman, he will never become Caymanian, and so he wil never give back to Cayman. He will only ever hate Cayman for rejcting him, and will take from Cayman everyting it has to offer because he does not care about the Island which is making him leave!!
I don’t know why so many of you think Mr Travers is the self seving expat. He is by now as much Caymanian as the rest of us,and is doing what he thinks best for the future of Cayman. If this is not true, then why was he pulled out of retirement to help us, in the unpiad position of chairman of the CIFSA?
In response to
"My point is that with no tenure on island, being kicked off in 7 years, the expat will never come to love Cayman, he will never become Caymanian, and so he wil never give back to Cayman. He will only ever hate Cayman for rejcting him, and will take from Cayman everyting it has to offer because he does not care about the Island which is making him leave!!"
You should remember that expats coming to the island before the rollover had no idea when their tenure would end. At least those arriving now know that they only have 7 years and to say they will end up hating Cayman is pretty stupid. It they come with defined terms there is no need to hate Cayman for sending you home after the period you have AGREED to work!
"At what point does the expat become Caymanian"
He becomes a fully fledged Caymanian when he (a) get’s Caymanian status; (b) becomes naturalized as a BOTC; (c) identifies as Caymanian and thinks of Cayman as home rather than merely his country of origin. There are many in the category but unfortunately still the minority.
Not that it is directly relevant, but on a point of info., Mr. Travers did not arrive until 1976.
A short time ago I predicted in a post entitled "Just wait for the…" that Travers’ remarks would bring the anti-expat/caymanians are geniuses being kept down (ie the Ezzard Miller!) reaction. Well, of course it did, but to be fair, Travers’ comments also produced some thoughtful responses too, even if there was a muted ezzardian tone to some of them. Travers has now written his own post-very high quality expository writing, whether one agrees with it or not. It will be instructive to see what sort of response it produces.
Thank you all for your comments which I think reflect a number of deeply held concerns. It is best to deal with them now if we are to move Cayman forwards. That I assure you is my only objective. I would not usually respond to anonymous comment but these are important issues and a number of the blogs (if that is a word) exhibit an unnecessary fear.
1. Firstly I apologise that the full extent of my comments are not presented but what is being reported on are the comments made in but one technical meeting at which speaking time was limited by the usual courtesies. But my quotes are accurate. What is being discussed is not removing the roll over policy, simply amending it in so far as it applies to experienced existing and new high ranking professionals in the financial industry who are capable of generating new business and new jobs. Headline writers sometimes get ahead of the content of what was actually said. You cannot blame them for that.
2. However the fundamentally mistaken belief that is evident in a number of responses is that the roll over policy will secure high level jobs for Caymanians. Let me say clearly that my objective necessarily includes increasing high level jobs for Caymanians and that I am working towards it. But the rollover policy we now know has the opposite effect. It denies job opportunities for young Caymanians because it kills jobs and it exports jobs and it creates jobs in other places. It exports the Cayman Islands economic miracle at a point when we are under attack from the OECD. The OECD well know this. Their objective is the destruction of Cayman and they time their attack when they sense Cayman and other offshore centre’s are vulnerable and are suffering a downturn. Ill informed Caymanian comment on this point is straight from the OECD playbook. The roll over policy has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue of Caymanian integration. The roll over policy, in so far as it applies to the financial industry, was an unnecessary and damaging (to young Caymanians) response to a failure on the part of the private sector to secure Caymanian integration and a failure on the part of the Government boards to secure that integration. It is well understood by me, at least, and I stand on my record, that the issue of Caymanian integration is central to the future development of the Cayman Islands But whilst great improvements must be made on the issue of Caymanian integration if Cayman is to survive, the solution is not the roll over policy in so far as it applies to the financial services industry. The roll over policy in so far as it applies to the financial services industry, reduces the opportunity for Caymanian employment, because it has reduced and will continue to reduce the size of the financial services industry. This reduces not only jobs for Caymanians but it reduces Government revenue as, if I am right, will soon be seen.
3. My specific answer to one question essential question raised is that Business Staffing Plan is central to the proper implementation of Caymanian integration and remains so, but the Business Staffing Plan does not contemplate and does not need the roll over policy to operate effectively. The Business Staffing Plan is all that is required to secure Caymanian integration but it has not operated effectively.If the size of the financial industry expands more job opportunities for Caymanians are created. Those who seek work permits to deal with the demand must show progress with Caymanian integration .That is self evident. The Business staffing Plan must be implemented as it was originally intended.
4. There is now clear evidence of a substantial and non budgeted drop in financial transactions and service providers coming to Cayman both in terms of existing business which has now left the Island and new businesses and transactions not coming to the Island. Independent enquiry of major institutions in London has revealed incontrovertibly that the roll over policy is a major obstacle to new financial services business coming to the Cayman Islands. There are countless Caymanians in the Financial Services Industry who will say so. Regrettably the high tide of the peak of the financial boom in 2007 has masked the true negative effects of the roll over policy . Now the tide is falling the rocks are revealed
5. Almost lastly an irrelevant point. It would be wrong for anyone to attribute credit to me for the UDP election result. To do so would take credit from those who worked hard to achieve it. I form no part of the UDP Party. I have though provided advice and legislative drafting suggestions on financial industry matters to Ministers over a thirty year period regardless of their political credentials.
6. Lastly an almost irrelevant point. In terms of the suggestion that I work for my money, it is true that I am now working very much harder than I had thought I would when I agreed to be the Chairman of CIFSA and as hard as I did when I was the Senior partner of Maples and Calder . But I do so in the interests of the Cayman Islands financial services industry and the long term interests of the people of the Cayman Islands and I have declined all suggestions that I be remunerated for doing so.
I am unlikely to respond again to anonymous comment because I would not wish to promote that sort of debate. But I recognise the concerns expressed are deeply held albeit they are based on misunderstandings of how a healthy financial industry must grow. And if it does not grow it must decline. No country in history has held the constant ground. Those who have genuine concerns and wish to improve their understanding may certainly contact me directly and I will do my best to respond directly.
anthonytravers@kyconsultant.com
"What is being discussed is not removing the roll over policy, simply amending it in so far as it applies to experienced existing and new high ranking professionals in the financial industry who are capable of generating new business and new jobs".
Doesn’t the ‘rollover policy’ already allow for that by creating ‘key employee’ positions which are not subject to the 7 year term limit but permits those persons time to apply for permanent residency? Is it simply a matter of the criteria for key employee being tweaked if it is at present too stringent?
"Independent enquiry of major institutions in London has revealed incontrovertibly that the roll over policy is a major obstacle to new financial services business coming to the Cayman Islands. There are countless Caymanians in the Financial Services Industry who will say so".
I do not see how you can make such an "incontrovertible" statement. In the past you have made statements such as Fund Managers going from London to th Channel Islands and not Cayman is because of the rollover policy. As you are no doubt aware, there are a number of reasons why UK Fund Managers would prefer Jersey and Guernsey, not least of which is their proximity to the European markets. There are countless expats in the Financial Services Industry who will dispute that ‘rollover’ is such a deterrent and it certainly does not follow that abolishing rollover would be a game changer. That being said, I think it is importantto place Fund Managers in a special context because it is such a specialized field and there are really no Caymanians vying for those jobs I believe that special incentives can and should be given.
Come on Big Mac, leave the rollover in place.
"Why don’t these companies here employ person in there own country and have them operate from there. Believe me it is being done all the time."
International businesses would love nothing better than to use Cayman law and jurisdiction without having to pay the obscene cost of employing people here. There is an army of graduate degree bearing people waiting in places like India who would take your off-shore jobs for a fraction of what people are paid in Cayman. The local economy would surely fail as well once the main source of income for the Island disappears. Be careful what you ask for.
After the roll-over policy convinced me to make plans to be elsewhere (with 3 degrees and multiple professional qualifications, that isn’t hard) and those plans being well underway, I had to stop and second guess the decision given that there unexpectedly appeared to be a light in the Cayman tunnel where there didn’t used to be one before. Reading the posts, I can now see that it’s just the headlight on the train running the expat talent off the island.
"Why isn’t one of our people so revered and applauded for their expertise?"
Because you don’t have it, and won’t get it unless someone who does have it gives it to you. That is unless you run them off the island, in which case that expertise will be shared with some other jurisdiction’s population along with the wealth that is generated by off-shore financial activity.
"What have the majority of these individuals done other than come here and get filthy rich off the hard work of Caymanians who are then forced out and replaced like engine parts."
Actually, it is the so-called "foreigners" who are doing the work that is generating their wealth – when they go, so does the money. I suggest that the on-shore money that flows to the Cayman Islands in the financial services industry is not coming here for cheap local labour, I mean really! It’s the world-class financial expertise that it is coming for (and it’s not finding that as much here as it used too).
All Caymanians who have world-class financial services skills will not need to ask an expat for anything. Running off the highly skilled expats who can train your population will not accelerate their education. When locals are ready, they can take their places and teach others as well. Until then, who cares which expat sits in which office?
Well if Expats would play fair perhaps the Caymanians would see things differently. I have been working in the Financial Sector for well over 10 years with degrees from top 10 Universities in the USA and all I get on a daily basis are excuses for why I can’t "take my place". I have witnessed Expats working together to ensure that Caymanians are kept out of the top salaries and positions and witnessed how Expats mock us, and try to make us look stupid. As soon as an Expat gets here, their first act is to open the door for their friends and family so don’t tell me that we don’t have the expertise. Most Expats come here from on-shore what qualifies you and makes you so much more intelligent and wonderful? I have parents who slaved away in the Financial sector, for Expat bosses who were lazy, abusive, ignorant and uneducated, and you are telling me to accept that ? I refuse to accept that, and I tell you one thing: This current Government might bend and accommodate that kind of crap, but my generation and those behind me will not. Enjoy the next 4 years, because there won’t be any more. Stop telling Caymanians we owe the Expats so much, you owe us for allowing you to come here and live among us, only to see how you all ridicule us, and treat us like indentured servants. It is the Expats who cultivated the animosity and hatred, and then tried to blame that on Caymanians. I even heard an Expat say the other day that the only way she can motivate her Caymanian employees is to feed them doughnuts where do you all get off ?
"Well if expats would only play fair….."
The intellectual content of this post makes it impossible to believe that the poster really has degrees from the "top ten US universities"-Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Boston College, Cornell, UCLA etc etc. Completely impossible and rather sad.
I suspect your degree, sir/ma’am, is from one of these damn Bible colleges (Andrews, Anderson eg) Caymanians are ripped off into going to by their bozo churches or one of the not so bad Florida type places-Barry, FIU etc but which are as far from the top ten as earth is from the sun.
Sorry, nothing you can say would make any of us with knowledge of the real academic world believe you were at a top ten place.If you were-and graduated- you would not post such a post.
"What have the majority of these individuals done other than come here and get filthy rich off the hard work of Caymanians who are then forced out and replaced like engine parts."
Expats work hard to create value here as well. And only a VERY small group of them become "filthy rich" off their hard work. And then they are replaced like engine parts.
have you considered the other possibility .That Without Mr Travers we would be St Kitts and Caymanians would be out fishing for a living. You may still get your wish .Please God there are enough fish out there to engage our sons and daughters.
Perhaps if we had a Rollover in place years ago, it would not be Mr Travers making the comment as the chair of CIFSA, perhaps it might be a "born" Caymanian, did anyone ever think of that? This is why we need a rollover policy so that our people can take up these positions. We are already importing enough from overseas, Mr Travers may have staus but at which born Caymanians expense? Whyisnt one of ourpeople so revered and applauded for their expertise ? What have the majority of these individuals done other than come here and get filthy rich off the hard work of Caymanians who are then forced out and replaced like engine parts. Leave the rollover in place, give our children a chance.
As a very nationalistic Caymanian who wants only the best for our Islands, I have to say that I cannot see how the roll-over is really benefitting Caymanians. It appears that we roll-over one work permit holder to roll-in another one. On the lower income bracket what I see is that we are sending away people who we knew and who had proven themselves only to bring in a new batch that you know nothing about.
Recently I have been seeing some strange looking people around, some that look like they recently escaped from the mad-house or penitenary and I strongly believe that this is a result of us not being able to attract the better ones because of this policy.
If there are any Caymanians out there who can say that they have directly benefitted from the roll-over, I would like to hear about it. I am not being sarcastic – I truly, genuinely have doubts whether this policy is having the desired effects.
"As a very nationalistic Caymanian who wants only the best for our Islands, I have to say that I cannot see how the roll-over is really benefitting Caymanians. It appears that we roll-over one work permit holder to roll-in another one".
Fancy pants, the primary purpose of the ‘rollover policy’ (as it has been misnamed) is that we bring an end to situation where expats were permitted to remain here for long periods of time and then claim that their human rights were being breached because they had not been granted permanent rights. Permanent rights lead to the right vote etc. etc. Can you see the problem?
The human rights argument apparently gains validity once they have been here for at least 10 years. The term limit provision in the Immigration Law therefore required expats who had been here for less than 5 years on 1st January, 2004 to be rolled over after 7 years with the important exception that where an employee had been designated a ‘key employee’ he would not be subject to the 7 year term limit but instead would be permitted to remain for 8 years required to be eligible to apply for permanent residence. If they are in fact as vital as Mr. Travers suggests then no doubt they will qualify as ‘key employees’, and I doubt that it is incorrect to suggest that high quality talent cannot be attracted because they cannot remain for longer than 7 years since if they are truly key then they can. Subject to key employees bringing in a new batch is not necessarily a bad thing since since those rolled over clearly did not make the cut as ‘key employees’ and may be that others in the new batch will.
That is the benefit to Caymanians collectively, but there is also potential benefit to Caymanians individually. A ‘key employee’ will substantially improve his chances of gaining permanent residence if he trains and promotes Caymanians. For others the 7 year rollover provides an opportunity for Caymanians to advance into their positions. Employers should therefore have a succession plan for the benefit of Caymanians. It goes without saying that if we give every expat permanent rights there will be little opportunity for advancement of Caymanians.
However, I believe there is room to refine the ‘key employee’ concept to ensure that it is not so stringent that it stifles growth in a business but not so lax that everyone is a key employee merely because you are an expat and work in the financial industry. Except for what Mr. Travers has suggested in his post here all that I have heard so far sounds like the latter.
Oh yes, and I am benefitting from rollover right now.
It appears to me that you believe that the reason for expats taking over the key positions is because of their indefinite tenure. That is an illconceived idea. More Caymanians need to focus on seizing the many opportunities they have for qualifying themselves and increasing skills and knowledge so that they can take up the key positions they spend so much time complaining about. I have seen many good Caymanians in key HR positions leave Cayman for overseas to recruit expats for jobs; some key positions. Stop verbally abusing an expat who was taken from his/her country to offer their expertise to help your country. It is time we think of ourselves as citizens of the world. We ought to learn to live with each other, tolerate each other and celebrate the goodness we all offer one to another. We are all God’s children for heaven’s sake. I am sure he does not have rooms in heaven based on nationalities and he is perhaps ashamed of us bickering at each other right now.
One Love Brothers and Sisters!
It surprises me that someone is brave enough to admit the reality of this hot button issue. The best people will not settle in a place that rejects them. The idea that the good of the country is being maintained by removing people who care about the country with people who accept a temporary residence who develope no roots and are prepared to move on after their 7 years getting and taking everything possible during that time is a mistake for the country.
Immigration is operating better that it ever has and I’m sure that you’re gonna do every thing in your power to make sure that it operates poorly from now on. … Not that I don’t agree with growth but it has to be in good taste, ….
"Immigration is operating better than it ever has". I would hate to know how badly they operated before. My dealings with Immigration have left a lot to be desired. One person will quote you one thing and the next day another person will quote you another. Everyone is talking about training Caymanians. Please train your Immigration staff so that they know the law and can carry it out effectively and efficiently. Expats (and not the rich expats) have learned the immigration system and are milking it to the fullest. Expats, who stand absolutely no chance of it being granted PR are applying because they know if they submit the application there is no one at Immigration checking the application form to see if the person applying even qualifies. In some cases applicants only have 50 points when the requirement is 100. The application then goes through the entire process (which can take up to 3 years) before the application is finally denied. Not only does this give the applicant 3 more years in Cayman than he/she otherwise would have had, it wastes the Board’s time and delays legitimate applications. Why is there no one looking at the applications when they are first received to see if the applicant even qualifies point-wise, and if they don’t have the points, why are the applications not denied there and then?
I am all for the 7 year rollover policy – and yes it will affect me in a few years time (if my WP continues to be renewed) but unfortunately it has to be done. Cayman cannot afford an influx of expats looking for a better life etc. However, I also believe its a fine line. Caymanians cannot blame the expat when the underlying problem is their Immigration system and their governments who do not have the fore-sight to think long-term but rather what can bring in the most amount of money in the shortest amount of time, even if its detrimental to the Island long-term. Caymanians have to accept responsibility for their own actions before they can criticise the expat’s quest for a great lifestyle.
For example, how many Caymanians are marrying expats for money? A marriage of convenience is illegal in Cayman and yet its happening all the time. These marriages of convenience are, I’m sure, not to the elite of society. Who is authorising the endless and Island-destroying building works on this Island? Who is stalling on the Mt. Trashmore problem? I can tell you now its not expats.
Another thing that puzzles me is that when I go to a restaurant etc, I don’t see young Caymanians waiting on tables or doing bar tending. When I speak to Caymanians about this they say its "beneath them". Why? I (and countless other expats I know) waitressed for years as a teenager – in the evenings and on weekends – in order to earn pocket money so that I could afford to buy things without having to ask my parents for money. It taught me the value of money as well as to be responsible, both money-wise and job-wise. I couldn’t just not turn up for work because I didn’t feel like going. It also taught me a valuable lesson not to take my parents for granted and thereby respect for my elders. Unfortunately it seems that Caymanian teenagers are just given everything they ask for which is perhaps why they "expect" high-paying jobs when they finish school. Come on parents make your children work for their money – it is an invaluable lesson to growing up and learning to be responsible. So what if they only get paid $7 an hour (thats a lot compared to what I was getting waitressing!). It will teach them responsibility and independence. For that they surely can only thank you in the future.
It is also high time Cayman realised that it is not an "elite" Island. They are attracting the middle class tourist. Yes, there are lots of expensive holiday homes owned by expats but how many times do the owners visit? Its not enough that you rely on the rich. You need to start attracting the middle class visitor. In order to do that you cannot have Cayman Airways charging $400 per ticket from Miami. For a family of four thats $1,600. Hotels are $170 or more a night for the cheapest hotel (not sure if that is a family room or not) which is pretty high. So, for a family of 4, it will cost approximately $2,620 just for their flights and accommodation. Thats not even taking into account any activities that they may wish to do, car hire or food, and lets face it nothing on this Island is cheap! Its time Cayman woke up and realised that, yes they may get elite tourists, however, the majority of tourism is the middle class family. No middle class family can afford to shell out $4,000 for a week’s vacation when they can now fly to Cuba or Jamaica and stay in a 4 or 5* hotel, or vacation somewhere in the States or Canada, for half that price.
I digress. At the end of the day, to all those Caymanians who blame expats for all their woes, like anything else, please look to yourselves for the root of the problems that are being experienced on your Island.
To: Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 06/01/2009 – 12:45.
You make some sound points. I have a few comments on them.
"Expats, who stand absolutely no chance of it being granted PR are applying because they know if they submit the application there is no one at Immigration checking the application form to see if the person applying even qualifies. In some cases applicants only have 50 points when the requirement is 100. The application then goes through the entire process (which can take up to 3 years) before the application is finally denied. Not only does this give the applicant 3 more years in Cayman than he/she otherwise would have had, it wastes the Board’s time and delays legitimate applications. Why is there no one looking at the applications when they are first received to see if the applicant even qualifies point-wise, and if they don’t have the points, why are the applications not denied there and then?"
You are right that the system is being abused by some expats. However, while a clerical officer can ensure that the application is properly completed and contains all the required supporting documentation, he/she cannot determine in advance how many points the applicant may be awarded. That is the function of the Board alone. Otherwise your point is entirely correct. However, there is also a mentality among many expats that the mere fact that they have resided in the Islands for 8+ years and have not committed a crime (or at least have not been convicted of one) means that they are therefore entitled to a grant of permanent residence. Caymanians are then vilified that they could be so "unfair". The irony is that while many expats disparage Caymanians for their sense of "entitlement" they are guilty of the same thing.
"Caymanians cannot blame the expat when the underlying problem is their Immigration system and their governments who do not have the fore-sight to think long-term but rather what can bring in the most amount of money in the shortest amount of time, even if its detrimental to the Island long-term. Caymanians have to accept responsibility for their own actions before they can criticise the expat’s quest for a great lifestyle".
You are absolutely right. For example, the new Government is clearly hell-bent on taking whatever measures to stimulate the economy, for example abolishing the 7-year term limit and removing the visa for Jamaica, without the slightest regard for long-term social consequences.
"For example, how many Caymanians are marrying expats for money? A marriage of convenience is illegal in Cayman and yet its happening all the time. These marriages of convenience are, I’m sure, not to the elite of society".
There are certainly marriages of convenience although I cannot say I am aware of Caymanians marrying expats for money specifically. It used to be that the expat who wanted to remain in the Islands would find a mentally defective Caymanian, marry him/her and would disappear shortly thereafter. Nowadays, there is a certain breed of Caymanian women who gravitate to towards certain expats on the basis of colour and these often result in marriages of convenience where they are despised and treated very badly.
And yes, your conclusion is right that we are ultimately responsible because of the choices we make and the politicians we elect to power. In 1998 we conceived our aspirations for a future society in Vision 2008. 2008 came and went and, alas, Vision 2008 had been long forgotten. Interestingly, as a thoughtful expat and Caymanian we agree on a lot. I like the fact that you are frank without being bitter, rude and condescending.
It surprises me that someone is brave enough to admit the reality of this hot button issue. The best people will not settle in a place that rejects them. The idea that the good of the country is being maintained by removing people who care about the country with people who accept a temporary residence who develop no roots and are prepared to move on after their 7 years getting and taking everything possible during that time is a mistake for the country.
PREACH!
From one soon to be rolled-over ex pat that truly loves this country, its culture (whats left of it…sadly) and its people (even though as is apparent from replies here, the feeling doesn’t appear to be mutual).
Tony – You are a good guy and what Cayman needs more than ever right now but you may have this one issue wrong. It would make sense IF a "Financial Sevices Industry Professional" had ever been rolled over – but I am unaware of any such person whose employerfulfilled their business staffing plan obligations ever having to leave. How many Financial Service "professionals" have Maples or Walkersor Mourant or Ogier or Appleby ever lost to Rollover Tony? The answer is none … so what are you worried about. Hell, even secretaries (who are not "financial servuices inmdustry professionals") are getting key employee where they are actively training Caymanians… What is that you Say – none are training Caymanians anymore? – Oh, well then, whose problem is that?
I have never lost a finacial services industry professional recruit due to rollover. It is not being described accurately if anyone has. Anyway – most professionals only stay for 4 years so are unaffected and further, who has the nerve to assume that work pernits will be automatically renewed every year. Mostly they will be but sometimes they may not be – and that is nothing to do with rollover.
Sure financial services should get better treatmnent, but not at the expense of Caymanians being held back and not being given better or even fair opportunities. They are not. Just ask Theresa!
Fund administration is not being done here primarily due to the cost of doing business. Fund administrators do not earn enough to get by in Cayman given the costs associated. Nova Scotia is simply cheaper. I would be very happy to support the doors being opened to Fund Administrators and the like – roll out the red carpet – but make it clear that for every 10 you MUST employ and train a Caymanian. Is that too much to ask? Even if you did that they would not come – but I would support you in those efforts.
If not the only people who will gain are the expat owners and expat landlords and expat realtors and expat developers and expat workers – and the revolution that affected Jamaica and the Bahamas will come and we will all be screwed.
To the poster who made the comparison to Bermuda:
Greed, complacency and entitlement has been brought in by these so called power players from overseas! The excuse that Cayman can not produce enough well experienced people in the financial service industry has been used over the last 20 years, so shouldn’t there be enough "well experienced" lawyers by now? If all of those who were brought in back then would have done what they were supposed to be doing (and that is to provide the proper training to Caymanians and to provide them with a mentorship and opportunities), then there shouldn’t be any more issue to discuss now! Where have they all gone? Did they just pick up all the money they made and ran, or are they still around? Come up with a different excuse. You know very well the reason Cayman’s financial industry is suffering is because of the current global economic situation and not because of not having the right people. Up to 1.5 years ago, the financial industry was absolutely booming (especially in the Mutual Funds arena). Are you now saying that the reason the boom is gone is because we don’t have the right people around? How stupid do you think everyone around here is?
Hi Caymanians, don’t say I never told you so. Mac has an AGENDA.
Let’s see what’s next on his to do list.
Yes Mac has an agenda, all of which he campaigned on…the get these beautiful Cayman Islands out of the mess the PPM has put us in.
"Yes Mac has an agenda, all of which he campaigned on…the get these beautiful Cayman Islands out of the mess the PPM has put us in".
…and into one of monumentally greater proportions.
No long term strategy to benefit the people of the Cayman Islands is evident in either Mr. Travers’ suggestion to end the roll over or his earlier suggestion that Cayman should do whatever is necessary to make the OECD happy. I support the new government’s drive to revitalize our financial services sector, but I think that they are getting advice from people who are only interested in what is in their own pockets over the short term.
I can’t say I am surprised! Leopards never change their spots (or is it stripes?).
Why don’t you check out some financial service entities who have over the last year hired several individuals from overseas to their senior management? Apparently they still found Cayman attractive enough, given that they still got huge pay cheques and a benefit package that gave them no reason to complain. Strangely, it doesn’t appear that business since has increased for these companies! If investors globally are having no desire to make any investments, then the financial industry will continue to suffer until the investor appetite increases again. I would have thought that somebody like you would understand those basics! Also, if there is a reason for companies to pull out from Cayman, it is not because they can’t attract the right people, it is because their overhead is too expensive, meaning leases for office space, utility bills etc. Why don’t you address those issues instead of rightaway jumping to the rollover policy?
Stop making excuses for why you want the rollover policy to change and stop confusing these issues.
More crime from loosening rollover policy for financial professionals?!? Given that this sector produces over 50% of the country’s GDP, from less than 25% of its population, the Social and GDP stimulutive effect would be monumentally skewed in Cayman’s favour, and the people of Cayman in every sector would benefit. Please explain how this would be bad for Cayman?
"Given that this sector produces over 50% of the country’s GDP, from less than 25% of its population, the Social and GDP stimulutive effect would be monumentally skewed in Cayman’s favour, and the people of Cayman in every sector would benefit. Please explain how this would be bad for Cayman?"
You are confusing the economy with social issues. The only thing you can think about is GDP. This mentality that so long as firms are making money everything is alright is what has led us to crises that we are currently experiencing. Allowing Caymanians to be dispossessed in their own land as they are swamped creates resentments and produces social unrest. Removing the ‘rollover policy’ for the financial industry will impact favourably for certain nationalities (e.g. Canadians and British) over others, e.g. Filipinos and Jamaicans, can ony breed resentments. Please, no knee-jerk reactions to the grey-listing and economic recession. People with other agendas are preying upon a sense of panic that has set in.
This is a very serious issue that takes a lot of serious thought and we need to put forth serious discussion on the topic and leave out the personal. I am youngish Caymanian who has done well for herself but I had to deal with the expat personalities who were cut throat and perceived me as a threat and tried their utmost to keep me down. However, I have also had to deal with the Caymanians in HIGH positions who stood by and did absolutely nothing about it!! Plus having to deal with my Caymanian coworkers/"competition" who behaved like complete crabs in a bucket instead of realizing that there is strength in numbers. I strongly believe that at the end of the daytruly qualified Caymanians with the proper work ethic can be very successful in these islands and should not be without a job at the highest level within this country.
FACTS:
The numbers are against us.. There are simply not enough Caymanians to match the rate of development and sucess that we have experienced on this island.
We have a very low un-employement rate.
We NEED expatriate workers.
We are cranking out 300 students every year from the public schools with no proper plans in place for their future. There is just too much mediocrity in this regard.. EDUCATION is not a priority despite the claims to the contrary. This is one of the major key areas that we need to work on.
There are too many young "Caymanians" who are not regarded as Caymanians and are left disenfranchised at a very young age.
There is a lack of understanding of all things Caymanian and that pride in one’s culture is not evident and strong enough to manage the onslaught of other stronger nationalities that are present here.
We have rules/laws which are not being enforced and we also have conflicting rules/laws.
We are a UNIQUE product , we are not Bermuda we are not Jamaica we are not Canada etc. We are the CAYMAN ISLANDS and we need to recognize the strength in this fact and stick with the prinicipals that have gotten us this far.
The rollover is not working as intended.
Some Caymanians are being discriminated against on a daily basis, some expatriate workers are being grossly mistreated and abused.
There is a clique of expatriate workers who have NO interest, regard, or respect for anything Caymanian and they flaunt this on a constant basis. There is also a group of expatriates who have contributed tirelessly to the sucess of this country and have made this place their home -not a money tree- but their HOME!
There are a small amount of un-employable Caymanians.
I have deadlines I will have to continue this later.
HELP!!! He is about to sink Caymanians again and we can’t stand for this! Caymanians we need to prevent this man from doing us even more harm than the status grants that he did last time. I heard he is also planning go give out 20,000 PR to reduce work permits! That means less of Cayman for us and less revenue for government and more voters (once they are naturalized) for Big Mac! He is will to do ANYTHING to maintain his power trip! I hope that all the other members of his team stand up to him this time and do what is RIGHT FOR CAYMANIANS!
Travers is talking nonsense about the application of the rollover policy not attracting highly talented professionals with qualifications. There is no real evidence that there is in fact any real "financial professionals" much less those going to other jurisdictions. One only has to look at the loss of market valued of some funds and the many financial failures in Fund Administration and that should tell you how talented these "industry professionals" are. Other jurisdictions that are attracting fund administration business out of the Cayman Islands has a lot to do with the cost structure of doing business here and not the immigration policies. No matter what immigration laws we have, some foreigners will claim it affects their business negatively.
Most people who come to work in Cayman do not intend to stay here indefinitely, and there is the key employee status that can be applied if the person is sufficiently valued, so why should we change a policy that protects the islands from getting over loaded with migrant unskilled people who will become paupers.
Now that the new constitution will be implemented we may indeed find that the roll over policy needs tweaking to avoid any doubts of discriminiations, but certainly there is so far no compelling evidence that the failures of Cayman to attract talented professionals has anything to do with our immigration policies.
I couldnt help but notice all the expats getting upset and bashing Caymanians because they want to ensure they have a future in their homeland. If this bashing and downgrading is going on in this forum then you can imagine what happens in the work places! All you can hear is that expats made this industry and without them we are nothing! Whilst I agree that some expats have contributed positively to the industry and that there are some very genuine expats here that redeem themselves by meshing into society and respecting Caymanians and their culture, there are many that are only here for what the island can do for them! There are only a hand full (or less) of expats in each financial services company that can actually call themselves "highly talented individuals". The majority come to Cayman with their inflated resumes to use the country as their training ground and money tree. Many are newly qualified accountants who come to Cayman for training and development so that they can use the experience gained to bargain for more money and better paying positions when they return home. Sadly, some arent even qualified and still end up in positions that a Caymanian would have to obtain a degree for.
Stop acting as if the local people of this island are being completely unreasonable to want to protect themselves and future generations. Every country, including yours, wants to protect their boarders and its people. So why should we be different?
I agree that there are a few Caymanians that need to realise that being a Caymanian is not a qualification and just like every country has a few laggers, Cayman is no different. But please know that there are a lotof hard working, QUALIFIED, Caymanians that live on this island. So stop with the gross generalizations.
So you say that you are here to help our industry grow and stay competitive globally. Thank you so much! We are so thankful that out of the goodness of your heart you are here to help the poor "fool fool" Caymanians break bread. NOT! If it wasnt for all the big tax free dollars that the industry pays then the majority of you wouldnt be here! So enough with the emotional blackmail that if we dont allow you to stay in Cayman forever our industry will die and we will be nothing! If that is the case then I am ready to go back to the mosquito beating days!
In reply to ‘I could not help but notice" In nearly all the comments and responses made by Caymanians there is an underlying thread. Caymanians (and here I assume we are refering to born Caymanians" are portrayed as being systematically victimised. They are denied jobs, employment benifits and any chance of promation. Ex-pats are vilified for their selserving attitude and they are constantly accused of seeking employment here so that they can send money to their homeland.
I take exception to this blanket blame attached to ex-pats for all that ails this country, why even the crime is fault of the foreigners! And if i should be that it is a Caymanian who is arrested for a crime it is because he "can’t get a job".
I have been involved in the employment of staff for some years, and contrary to the bigoted belief it is easier and cheaper to employ a Caymanian. Not because their salary is any less but because the employer does not have the hassle and cost of a Work Permit. It also is good for business to have continuity, ask any HR officer on that score.
I have personally tried to employ only Caymanians and of the scores of people I have given jobs to I can say catagorically that more than half of the Caymanians I have employed have been poor time keepers, under-performers and compared to ex-pats lazy. Now before you go accusing me of paying poor wages for slave labour I will tell you that in several instances ex-employees have asked to be re-employed by me which I think indicates that the working conditions are attractive. I do have some good Caymanians working for me and I have promoted everyone of them to higher positions. In fact I promoted one local person to the most senior position in the company after myself. In years past Caymanians were renowned for their hard working ethics and we have a history of men who went to sea and became leaders in their field by dint of hard work and honesty.
As for money being sent "home" where do you think these ex-pats live? in most cases they rent from Caymanians who charge exhorbidant amounts for accomadation. How often we hear that Caymanians cannot afford accomadation who do they think is renting out the property ex-pats? Where dothey buy their food? is there a special section where ex-pats can shop and not pay the same price as everyone else? Where does all the money which is spent in tourism and the financial sector come from? What did the Caymanian seamen who alone supported this country in days gone bye do with most of their money, spend it in the country where the ships they worked on belonged? Who buys most of the imported cars, the foreign help?
During one of the speeches made by Adolf Hitler during which he blamed all the problems of the German people on the Jews a bystander was heard to call out
"what about the cyclists"?
"what do you mean what about the cyclists" they were asked.
"Well they could be blamed just as easily for all our troubles"!
"Ah but they are a target that can fight back…it is always eaier to pick on a group who cannot answer back"
Yes it is always easier to blame someone else for our problems and even easier to pick on a target who cannot fight back.
This is not a Caymanian problem but a human condition problem. Look at the big picture. In the world there are many different countries. Each one with their own ideas on how they should run things. Its easy for the rest of the world to see if they are running things well. We have countries that are doing well in some areas and some that are failing in most areas. And we are talking about how they take care of their people here. If people could take out the (My Way or the highway) mentality. It woiuld be easy to copy the rules of the countries who are doing well and NOT copy those who are doing poorly. It should also be easy to keep doing things that work well and never do again the things that have failed in the past. Unfortunatley we are all human. Some smarter then others. The world works the way it always has and alway will. Basically you reap what you sow. People in Cayman (and everywhere else) can now see how things have worked in the past, figure out what worked for them and what did not and hopefully react in a manner which will bring a more possitive future. Or (and this happens in every country of the world) react to our fears of change and what might happen if we do something different and just keep doing the same things with the same results. Cayman…,, What is happening to you right now is the result of your own will. What happens to you in the future is also going to be the resuslt of your own wants hopefully with some input from what you could have learned from past mistakes.
Long story short…If something is not working for you change it. Don’t be afraid. Be aware. Learn from the past. Now look at your past. Look at your present. To me they look very much the same. I wish youy all the best but in the end you will just get what you deserve best or worst.
Yes folks the first let down is on our horizon. All men having power ought to be mistrusted.
I’d like to know where you get the idea Travers is self serving ?
His primary focus from what I know of the man is to ensure a future for Cayman and Caymanians , if the Financial Services Industry goes down the drain , everything will fall apart believe me it will affect real estate , retail , health services etc
How many top level financial services professionals would a small provincial town of 30,000 in Alberta or Devon produce? Very few.
Cayman simply cannot produce more than a handful of top quality lawyers or accounts ayear (realistically less than 10). Cayman can produce lots of "goodish" ones, but these ones don’t make any difference to the business as a whole. This is not a question of poor training of Caymanians it is just a numbers game. The small exceptionally proviincial town that is Cayman already punches far above its weight in representation.
The idea that seven years can be enough to train a professional is the kind of ignorant rubbish that only comes from someone who has never worked in the real financial services world (i.e. London, New York, Toronto or the like). Cayman is heading where Bermuda already is, killing the goose that laid its golden eggs by greed, complacency, entitlement and most of all a disregard for who the jurisdiction’s customers are, onshore financial services professionals.
Caymanians might be behind Mac and the UDP, problem is that Mac and the UDP are not behind Caymanians. The UDP is very much PRO EXPAT not PRO Caymanian. The UDP has successfully fooled Caymanians once again.They were warned that this is what Mac would do if given the power so I don’t know why anyone is surprised by this. I believe Ezzard Miller was the only one that campaigned on giving Cayman back to Caymaniansand making sure that Caymanians were treatedly fairly. Perhaps Mr. Miller could tell the country how he plans on doing that now. Mr. Miller what say ye?
Ahhhhhhhhhh. Just one of the fine beginnings of UDP. Yes UDP open the flood gates once more, let there be more traffic, more cars, more crime, more people. We’ll soon have to move up to East End just to get some space! Oh but wait by the time your done in your four years of power there will be no space. The poor people who voted you in have no idea that they just asked you to drag them to hell. Well you gave away all those status grants so you might as well frig the rest of the Country up Mac, you’ve done such a fine job you might as well finish the job. Finish ruining Cayman that is. You talk about immigration reform but all you plan to do is deform it. Immigration is operating better that it ever has and I’m sure that you’re gonna do every thing in your power to make sure that it operates poorly from now on. So many clients that I meet say to me that Cayman used to be such a great place to come to, now they see it as too american and long for the old Cayman from the 70’s. Not that I don’t agree with growth but it has to be in good taste, you Mac have no idea what taste is.
Business staffing plan would be dropped – what would be the point of it with no rollover?
Travers is self serving! Peoople need to read the statistics and information that is out there. If the UDP makes this mistake they will NOT be elected in 2013. We know that ultimately that is what they care about – not the people of the Cayman Islands.
As with any job it should go to the person who is best qualified for that role , by bringing in high calibre staff it ensures that the companies continue to attract high end business – these people live and spend their money in Cayman . All those who suggest we should positively discriminate in favour of caymanians need their head checked – by following that approach we shall lose the high level of expertise which is what attracted companies to use our services.
Please remember there are other offshore locations for companies to operate out of We are competeing on a world stage and are up against the best therefore we need to ensure that we employ the best in Cayman .
Please also remember that companies when looking to attract the star performers have to be able to offer these people security – why afterall would they want to travel half way round the world , in some cases uprooting their family as well to work in a country where there is so much uncertainty.
What do you want to do next restrict people coming to Cayman on vacation .
Without Financial Services Cayman is NOTHING its about time all you detractors realised that – go get yourself an education , credible qualifications – get some international work experience, you need to lose the small town mentality that appears to be so prevelant afterall if others manage it why dont you – its a two way street – if you have what it takes you will succeed.
Cayman is only geography. For real, think of this, when you go to the grocery story how may people do you see shopping, or not how may, who so you see shopping, you see all the poor people, that is why they have nothing on this little rock. XXXXXX The expats will spend on food but the quanitythey consumeis the difference.
Learning of other people culture is the best thing to do.
Why don’t these companies here employ person in there own country and have them operate from there. Believe me it is being done all the time. The company itself would benefit because they will not have to pay pension over here, they will noth have to pay for health insurance, They will not take up space in the office here. Believe me operating a business here in Cayman is a whole lot more expensive than operating out of an office say in the USA.
In this day and age with Email, Teleconference, fax, phone, scanning you do not have to be in Cayman to work here. You do not have to be in any place to do the work for that country.
I could be doing Mauritius Law and dealing with clients from the island of Jamaica and 99.99 % of them would not know the difference because we do not see each other. What is the occasional meeting once in every pink moon! I have been at this job for 20 years and if I have see 5 of my clients I have seen a lot. Phone , Fax and now email.
Come on guys we all know what it all boils down to. It is money, money, money and who can get the most of it or better yet who can use the most of it that is not theirs.
This county has come a long way and I am glad for that, but the path that it is on right now all we have to do is sit back and watch. If drastic steps have to be taken then so be it.
We all have to do our best for our each individual families and depend only on that good man above. "Trust in NO MAN but ME"! I am sure we all know that little verse. So live it. Do not trust anyone as far as you can see them.
A set of people was elected and because of party or grouping the UDP is the Cayman Islands Government for the next four years. It is for the people to keep them accountable for what they do. Keep a close eye on them like I said do not trust anyone, but that is with any government as well. This is your country hold it dear to your hearts. Do not let corruption lead this country to complete distruction.
No matter what country you go to there is good and bad but in Cayman there is a whole lot more of good living than there is bad. The people are coming here for the living not necessary the work. They just have to work to live here. I am not going to say that all expats have the answers and a lot of people do come to these islands with chips on there shoulders or that they are high and mighty because there are on a work permit like they are the pilars of the organizations. What makes that happens is the niceness of Caymanian who are friendly and easy going.
That makes me think the other night when a lady spoke about the education system now in place by Mr. McLaughlin that it was too hard for Caymanian Children. Now that was a slap in the face if I ever heard it. Caymanians that is suppose to be intelligent seem to always let down their own. If you keep telling them they can not succeed at something that will happen. But then again look at who was talking!!
To: Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sun, 05/31/2009 – 21:44. Ditto!! Caymanians will never finish paying for all Mac promised during his election campaign.
The worst thing Cayman could have done is make anyone (Travers included) think they have all the perfect answers to all of our problems. Soon Travers will not only be telling us how to deal with the OECD but he’ll also be telling us who education scholarships should be given to. Watch see if Mac don’t start giving expats Government scholarships to further education (since really many of them that come here aren’t really ‘professionals’ they just hold professional level jobs and many times dont have adequate qualifications or relevant experience). Hope this post doesn’t give him or Travers any ideas.
And a note to all of Mac’s big money supporters. Where your ideas conflict, Mac is going to listen to the one that will best line his pocket. I hope you all have deep pockets because you all have some big competition amongst yourselves!
By the way, why did this meeting have to be at the Ritz$$$$$? Guess Mac and these guys cant suffer for 2 hours in the Glass House while the poor civil service has to spend day after day there.
I guess it happened there as the PPM had been holding all their meetings at the Ritz.
Mac, dont sell us out.
Only in recent years have Caymanians been returning in greater numbers with top notch qualifications.
Do not roll back the roll over.
In fact take it to the next level and formally introduce the roll over to the civil service/statutory authorities.
Give the Cayman work force a level playing field.
The Caymanian people are behind you.
–Cayman Gladiator
Train, Train, Train…
When I need heart by-pass surgery, I will be sure to find the school leaver who has been "trained" for the last seven years, as comapred to someone who bothered to go to medical school and specialize in cardiac surgery.
Seriously, you must be stupid. Do you think that we are saying that we expect unqualified Caymanians to take jobs that they are not equipped for. Give me a break! First of all, to perform heart by-pass surgery on someone would mean that you have gone to University and become a qualified Doctor. We are not asking for positions that we do not deserve! Try not to be so "thick headed" the next time you post a comment and please think before you type. Stupid.
UDP, PPM or any political affiliate should be very careful with how they go about
this one. The Caymanian people are growing weary of all the pushing and shoving
and the time will come when we will rise up against all that is being stuffed
down our throats. Take the 7 years and make good with it – do not push this issue
or more than the financial industry will be at stake…..
I wonder….anyone out there who did not see this coming? And we all knew Mac would try use the so called industry experts to suggest this as being absolutely necessary for Cayman’s survival in order for him to pull it off when really, behind closed doors he has long promised such a move! The UDP must nown start to make good on all the deals they have negotiated with big money supporters and anybody with any sense knew this one was going to be top of the list….next comes…PR giveaways and VISA requirement reversal…..UDP is so predictable it’s not funny!! But a word of warning to Mr. Travers and the other ‘wise brains’ behind the UDP….mind who you are making deals with…Mac is not going be ‘controlled’ for long….and be careful the bed you are busy making for Caymanians….you too will share that bed.
"I wonder….anyone out there who did notsee this coming? And we all knew Mac would try use the so called industry experts to suggest this as being absolutely necessary for Cayman’s survival in order for him to pull it off when really, behind closed doors he has long promised such a move!"
You’ve hit the nail on the head! Last time certain UDP hierarchy were going telling the white expats in the financial industry not to worry that rollover was not intended to affect them it was only for the Jamaicans, yet the poor Jamaicans were led to believe that the UDP was for them and the PPM were anti-Jamaican. With the UDP thanksgiving service in a church attended almost exclusively by working class Jamaicans McKeeva is going to have to make some really deft moves to persuade them that he is really for them – may be that’s what the 20,000 permanent residency grants are all about.
Travers is been blaming rollover for every conceivable problem we have. The most absurd link yet is to claim that rollover contributed to us being on the OECD grey list. A number of factors led to Fund Administrators moving to Canada, but rollover is simply a convenient scapegoat for those who have another agenda altogether. Those of us in the financial industry (including expats) who have a clue and are honest know that it is hogwash to blame this all on rollover.
The economy is vitally important, but so are our social issues and environmental issues. In the past successive govts. have focussed only on the economy and the result is that we have many social problems that have not been addressed. That’s why there are social tensions between different groups and crime is on the rise. I hope the UDP will not be so shortsighted this time, but like so they are predictable.
Is seven years not enough time to train a Caymanian for a fund administration or
other post within an organisation? If there is no Caymanian available to the post
(which I am sure there will be) then surely seven years is enough time to train
a “paper” Caymanian or even another expat. I am sorry Mr. Travers, whilst I understand
that your intentions may be well, you cannot expect that a smail country like the
Cayman Islands can continue to open its doors to more and more people without
Imposing a limit or some kind of contol mechanism such as the seven year roll
over policy. With 300 – 500 Caymanians graduating each year and a significant
amount returning from university each year, there is no way the Cayman Islands
should not impose some kind of sucession planning requirement. You are being unreasonable
to expect this. I agree that the roll over policy is not working the way it should (ie employers
applying for key employee after seven years or employee becoming eligible for PR) but I do think
that the policy should stay and the loop holes be “corked”. So Mr. Travers, do you have
any other suggestions that would allow expats to share their talent and earn a
lucrative living while at the same time train a Caymanian so that one day they can
make a lucrative living as well? The roll over policy works by allowing everyone a
piece of the pie (ie one expat leaves and another comes in and gets a turn). It
allows everyone a piece of the pie except Caymanians. Don’t get me wrong, there is
not enough Caymanians to currently run the industry alone and I do agree that we need
foreign talent to keep the wheels churning but all I ask is that the suitable local people
are given the opportunity to gain from the industry by being trained and developed by these
“highly talented individuals”.
What about the business staffing plan? What will happen with that?
Mr Travers,
You need to come up with something better than that. Can you prove that the expats for those jobs will bring their money here? NO, the only thing they bring here is their stinking dirty attitude and put down Caymanians.
Mr. Bush, please don’t make this man fool you, you wanted to provide jobs for Caymanians, please don’t take them away. I work in a well in the Financial Industry and trust me majority of the Expats that come and fill these positions only come to TAKE FROM CAYMAN and not GIVE. ALL THEY DO IS PUT US DOWN.
I agree with you, PUT THE EFFORT INTO OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM, OUR CHILDREN NEEDS JOBS. NEXT MONTH WE HAVE OVER CHILDREN LOOKING JOBS, HOW CAN WE SURVIVE IF WE ALLOW EXPATS TO REMAIN HERE FOREVER.
WHEN CAYMANIANS FINALY GET TO THE TOP POSTIONS, THE Y DON’T GET THE BENIFETS LIKE EXPATS, DO WE GET GAS, SCHOOL, HOUSING ETC BENEFITS. NO. AND IF THE EXPATS WERE BEINGTREATED THAT WAY IN THERE OWN COUNTRY THEY WOULDN’T WANT TO LEAVE HOME EITHER. THEY DON’T KNOW WHAT GOOD LIFE IS UNTIL THEY COME HERE.
FINALLY, PLEASE HAVE THEIR QUALIFICATIONS CHECKED, CHECKED AND RE CHECKTED. DO LET US ALL FALL IN THE SAME S### AS UCCI.
MR. BUSH, PLEASE TELL MR TRAVERS TO WORK FOR HIS MONEY AND FIND ANOTHER SOLUTION.
The real problem with rollover in the industry is not that it deters recruitment, it is more that it is dumbing down the value of the Cayman product, but taking out of the human capital pool individuals experienced in the specific needs of the clients of Cayman and the workings of Cayman processes. Added to this is a short-termist, mercenary mentality which sets in after 3-4 years for many ex-pats, which only exists because there is a perception that the clock is ticking. Rollover does nothing to assist the recruitment or promotion of Caymanians and risks many Caymanians jobs, not just professional but support staff and those who service those staff, when businesses assess the cost of doing business in Cayman as too high – as Goldman Sachs did recently. Cayman is regressing to the offshore mean and rollover, increased fees and taxes on emplying top quality staff and (ex)government complacency are the main causes.
"Added to this is a short-termist, mercenary mentality which sets in after 3-4 years for many ex-pats, which only exists because there is a perception that the clock is ticking".
Cr*p! That mercenary mentality has always existed, indeed it exists even after some expats get permanent rights. To them Cayman is only a place to make money. Permanent rights are valued only because it allows to continue to make money here for as long as they like. The real money is still sent back to their countries of origin. XXXXXXXX
There is no reason to take an exclusively negative view of rollover. Not al the expat employees are highly skilled and desriable to retain. Many of them are dead wood and rollover is doing the employer a favour since he doesn’t actually have to fire them. It then gives the opportunity for better quality people to be recruited. Many high quality people for eg. in the accounting field only want to be here for a few years and then move on. It works well with firms and companies and overseas offices who can simply rotate their staff from one jurisdiction to another.
Dropping the rollover policy for one sector of the economy would in my opinion be prejudicial to the other sectors and cause resentment in a society already wrought with numerous social issues.
A better alternative would be to keep the rollover policy in place for all expatriate employees but at the end of 7 years everyone can apply for permanent residency and only those who don’t meet the requirements are rolled over.
I am not familiar with the current requirements for permanent residency, but criteria should nclude local investment in property, charity work and contributions that benefit the society etc…
This would encourage expatriates to invest and make a real contribution to the society. Only those who don’t meet the stringent permanent residency requirements should be rolled over. That’s humble opinion.
Having said that I feel Mr. Travers initiatives are excellent and he has a lot to offer this country, and we are lucky to have his professional experience and contribution.
Just wait for the "now caymanians will never get anywhere" posts, CNS!
Travers and people like him preventing ‘our people" from getting ahead. So sad, because of course he’s right and we are headed for oblivion if we don’t adopt a more sensible immigration policy.
But we won’t. We have to make sure our non performing (note very carefully, there are some absolutely excellent Caymanians) caymanians blast their way to the top within 5 years of graduation so that they are CEOs to please our immigration board. If they don’t make it they bitch about glass ceilings, person of colour, expat prejudice, blah blah.
Here we go again, the rollover 7 year policy. Why can’t people just come here work, train others and go home? Why should they stay? I’m sorry, those who want to work will come here and work despite the 7 year rollover policy. It isworking, it is an insurance for the Caymanian people to be able to be promoted to higher positions and get better paying jobs. It is the only tool we have to control other businesses to hire qualified Caymanians and provide training in order that they can replace the individual prior to their end of 7 years. Please Mr Bush, don’t let Mr Travers play this card on you. As it is Caymanians are being told that they should not speak with Caymanian accents when working at an Insurance Company located in GT. They don’t care for Caymanians but are hiring them simply because it is a requirement. They are trying to frustrate a young Caymanian mother to leave in order to have her position filled by a foreigner. Please think twice. If anyone want to work they’ll work and plan for the next 7 years once on the island.