Police admit losing guns

| 26/07/2011

(CNS): The police have confirmed that at least two guns have gone missing from the RCIPS weapons inventory. Although one is said to have been lost during the chaos in the aftermath of Hurricane Ivan in September 2004, another handgun has been lost within the last year. A police spokesperson said that this missing weapon was “causing greatest concern” to senior officers. The RCIPS said the discovery was made during a recent review of all of the RCIPS assets in which seven guns were written off as they were described as unserviceable and will be destroyed after this month’s public gun amnesty ends. However, an investigation is now underway into the disappearance of the handgun, which was last used some twelve months ago. (Photo Dennie Warren Jr)

Police said that when Commissioner of Police David Baines was informed he ordered “an immediate and thorough investigation” under the direction of Deputy Commissioner Stephen Brougham.

“That investigation has been ongoing for around a week,” a police spokesperson revealed on Monday. “As part of the enquiry all officers who had access to the weapon are being interviewed and RCIPS armouries, buildings, boats, etc are in the process of being searched. To date the weapon has not been traced.”

The spokesperson said that the RCIPS has “a rigid policy in place in relation to the issue and storage of police firearms,” but admitted that the policy in this case was not followed.  “Until the investigation is complete it would be inappropriate to comment further,” the RCIPS said.

The police have also denied that the weapon discovered in the bushes in Red Bay recently by Boris, a police dog from the K-9 unit, was the missing weapon. The spokesperson said that the loaded Heckler and Koch pistol was not a police issue.

The police have not given any details of the type of weapons that have disappeared other than to say that the weapon was a handgun. Other sources have told CNS that the weapon which reportedly went missing in the wake of Ivan was a H&K G36 rifle and the handgun is believed to be a H&K pistol.

Although the RCIPS said the investigation was commenced over one week ago, it is not clear how long the police have known about the missing weapons.

Dennie Warren Jr, of the local pressure group People for Referendum, appears to be the person that raised the question of the missing policeguns in the public domain. Warren called into Radio Cayman’s afternoon talk-show Talk Today just over one week ago and asked the host Sterling Dwayne Ebanks if he or the government’s radio news team were aware of the missing weapons.

Category: Crime

Comments (55)

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  1. Dennie Warren Jr. says:

    Re: “The police have also denied that the weapon discovered in the bushes in Red Bay recently by Boris, a police dog from the K-9 unit, was the missing weapon.”

    I simply do not believe that statement is true and that’s not all, but we shall see, because rope and time gather as time, and the moment of learning is when they both meet.

  2. nauticalone says:

    More Official Incompetence….and waste. Pathetic!

  3. Anonymous says:

    Here is a statistic for you with well over 700 Drug Task Force and Land & Sea operations and countless hours of patrol from 1986 -2005 under then Drugs Task Force boss trevor Cutts and then Derek Haines and his very competent commanders and supervisors not a single incident of weapons lost our on account for Speaks volumes about out current leadership.Its time Governor Taylor for you to do the right thing Sir! Remove those who have ushered in these disasterous changes its about time for this island sake .

  4. Durrrr says:

    One good thing can come out of this incident – it should finally put an end to the cries of the pro-gun lobby (Mr. Warren and chums) to give more guns to the police and to security guards. More legal guns will simply lead to more illegal guns, simple as that.

    • Dennie Warren Jr. says:

      And if we could only ban cars so that more lives could be saved… smh

      • Anonymous says:

        If we ban the police they won't lose guns.

        Perhaps we should ban humans since most crimes are committed by them.

        And pencils too, since crimes might be planned with pencils.

        And those cars might be getaway vehicles, but in Cayman we'd have to ban sneakers as well.

         

      • Durrrr says:

        Yes, because criminals are always using cars to rob and shoot people. smh indeed.

        • Dennie Warren Jr. says:

          Do you remember the armed robber riding off on a bicycle on Eastern Ave?

          How about the crime which was foiled by the staff at the Caribbean Club when they saw three males getting out of a CAR and dressing for what they believed was a robbery?  An unlicensed firearm was recovered from the scene by the police.

           

          How about the tools, other than firearms used by burglars to dig their way into the Butterfield Bank recently?

           

          I have a feeling that you might not want toadmit that a car is a tool just like a firearm – a tool with which to do a specific task, because by doing so, you would be shooting down your own argument.  Cars, bicycles, flashlights…, all can be lawfully and unlawfully used, just like firearms, but the real question is, will you have the rights tools should you find yourself becoming a victim of a violent crime?  I hope so.

          • Durrrr says:

            Of course cars/bikes etc. have been used before and after robberies, my point was that cars are not the 'tools' which are used to carry out those robberies.

            I'm sure you are just being facetious, but the difference of course, is the intended use of the 'tool': cars are used to get from A to B; guns are used to shoot and kill. Yes, cars can be mis-used and can result in death; but guns have that result when they are used for their intended purpose.

            To take your argument to its logical conclusion, perhaps we should all arm ourselves with nuclear weapons? Just a tool after all!

            • Dennie Warren Jr. says:

              Firstly, cars and bikes are intended to be used for lawfully purposes, and the same is true for firearms.  Example, it’s lawful to participate in the shooting sports such as skeet, trap, IPSC…, hunting, as well as lawful self protection.  See section 18(1)(a) of the Firearms Law (2008 Revision).  Firearms are not manufactured to commit crimes, such as murder.

              Secondly, since criminals are shooting innocent people during robberies…, your view that the innocent must be unarmed and therefore disadvantaged is unreasonable.  We have a right to life; therefore it is unreasonable to say one cannot have a reasonable means of defending that life, except where that person is a criminal.  That is a logical conclusion.

              Thirdly, I’m not aware of any country that permits private persons to own nuclear weapons, nor can private persons afford to, so no, that is not a logical conclusion.

              Fourthly, it takes more than firearms to commit murder or robbery and escape without capture.  Before the invention of firearms, other tools were used to kill, so the problem you have is not accepting reality.  Simply put, you cannot stop criminals from obtaining firearms, or anything else; you cannot, because even if you could disarm the law-abiding, the criminals would simply manufacture their own firearms.

              So how is the war on drugs working out?

          • Anonymous says:

            I say Dennie Warren for chief of firearms in RCIPS. At least he has guts and stands for something…now that I think about it let’s get him for the commissioner!

    • Anonymous says:

      That is very sad and very probably true.

       

  5. a gun expert says:

    On a positive note…at least the officer in the photo is practicing good trigger discipline….

    • Just Commentin' says:

      It's ok. Like Barney, he's probably got his bullet in his shirt pocket.

  6. Anonymous says:

    Morale is at an all-time low in the RCIP..low pay…no promotions…rising crime and a Commissioner with no idea what he is doing, essentially the officers have no captain for their ship…meanwhile the pirates (criminals) on the high seas are having their day every day…don't blame the officers…they work hard for low pay and have very little training or any weapons for criminals to take them seriously.  It is the higher ups that are the real problem, they are being promoted due to being cronies of the top brass instead of for being top cops.  How can the Good Ship RCIP run smoothly if there is no competent captain to decide where the ship goes? Sooner or later it will all come out just how many problems the Commissioner has with his top cops.  One good thing is that the crime might be getting worse but the journalists are getting better, they will get the real scoop sooner or later.  

    • a gun expert says:

      say all you want about the problems facing the RCIPS these days, but…Like the song says…"I got 99 problems, but LOW PAY aint one.."  RCIPS Officers are some of the highest per capita paid officers in the Western World…and DAMN SURE the hightest paid in the Caribbean…

      • Dennie Warren Jr. says:

        I suspect that a value for money analysis would show the Commissioner of Police is being grossly overpaid.

  7. Michel says:

    I can also understand in the aftermath of Hurricane Ivan that that could have happened but since then no excuse. Same as the drugs that disapeared in the past. Another investigation. One thing for sure we must hold the record on uncessfull investigations. Again Mr. Governor please pay more attention and do something about those suppositively inquires. Remember it’s under your watch.

  8. Anonymous says:

    They gave brandon a gun????

    • Dennie Warren Jr. says:

      In my view, each of the three RCIPS officers who were on the West Bay Road that night handled their firearms in exceptional accordance with firearm safety rules.

  9. Solja Crab says:

    Gun Amnesty -1

    Criminals +1

     

    Now we're getting somewhere!

  10. Anonymous says:

    Also SEVEN guns are written off as unserviceable! At what cost? They can't even maintain & service the weapons that they don't lose; do they actually have any that work & they know where they are? I bet the missing one was stripped down to make the other seven work a bit longer, but that they too have been neglected in to disrepair. Dear me, it is a joke. Maybe the K-9 unit should service the guns as well as find them.

    • Anonymous says:

      7 weapons written off ?? That's what happens when you don't send the Armourer on an Armoury course !!

  11. Anonymous says:

    It is like the Royal Cayman Islands Police Service, is not permitted to have its own revised Standing Orders or way of governance or management policies. All the high ranking officers are mere figure heads to give order and that's it. There is structure, but no management. The Commissioner of Police, I feel, is deliberately keeping the RCIP back in colonial days from becoming modernize and improving its services. That is my belief and the reason why I feel we need more than ever someone who is local to run the service. I wonder what ever happened to Rudolph Dixon. He is replaced for another english officer that has no local street knowledge!  I never trust these british high cops and their policing from day one. People are saying that we need the british to help fight our crime… well guess what?  They are leading the Police Service and giving you statistics about how burglary and crime is down. They are not helping us fight crime one bit. They are nobody saviors here and the more they come here is the more vacation for them.

  12. Anon says:

    I would like to read or see an interview of the "day in a life of a Cayman police officer"…. especially one which does notinclude them hiding in a bush "waiting" to give someone a speeding ticket!!! Or better yet, having road blocks to check for expired licenses!!!

  13. Anon says:

    Please advise what else is really "missing". Guns, drugs, reports etc. The police need to realise that they are losing the faith of the people in this Country. How are we supposed to take them seriously when they cannot control their own? Now from the last article, it appears that they cannot even pass their exams!

    • Anonymous says:

      saw a female officer about a week ago she seems to have lost her boots because she had on a pair of slippers.

       

  14. Anonymous says:

    Get Boris on the case.

  15. Anonymous says:

    Everyone remembers the drugs that have been stolen from police lock up. Guns are another valuable commodity these days.

    This is very serious.

  16. Anonymous says:

    Guns handed in during this month's amnesty = 0

    Guns lost by RCIPS = 1

    Total guns off the street =  minus 1.

    Crime fighting at it best!

  17. Caymanian Boat Captain says:

    The reality is, "in the chaos" immediately after Hurricane Ivan, it is accepted that "a firearm and maybe an exhibit or two" could go missing from police custody. Remember, the whole Central Police Station got washed out by water and the RCIPS had to relocate into a Cable & Wireless incomplete building on Eastern Avenue for months thereafter. However, it is "totally unacceptable" that a service firearm should now go missing, especially with all the so called  "checks and balances" supposedly instituted by the experts and professional leadership from the UK, who have been in control of the RCIPS since late 2005.

    Good disclosure Denny Warren.     

  18. Anonymous says:

    Mr. Bodden is this the reason for the gun amesty to see if someone will return the lost gun? seriously everyday the RCIPS is getting  worst and then we the public must put our trust in you all when una is so CARLESS  to loose something as DANGEROUS as a GUN. I wonder who ever was responsiable for this weapon at the time did they loose there job where there any punishment for this carelessness .

    • CaymanFisting says:

      I’ll tell you what’s worst than loosing a gun, having to read your post 3 times to realize you meant to use the words worse and lose.

  19. Anonymous says:

    We seem to have the Caribbean version of the Keystone Cops.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Kops

     

  20. Anonymous says:

    Whilst we all love to flame the RCIP for losing a weapon, lets not lose sight of the fact the main problem remains the illegal importation of weapons from Jamaica in canoes.

    The Police are good, but not perfect.

  21. Anonymous says:

    Some years ago, 100 kilos of cocaine went 'missing' from the RCIPS evidence warehouse as well…no one was ever charged or convicted in that case…a couple of minor street dealers weere arrested, supposedly with some of the stash in their possession, and then let go.

    Now, a 'missing' police-issue semi-automatic handgun?

    Did I once hear of an police corruption investigation called Operation Tempura that went horribly wrong and was aborted ?

    The Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) conduct all sorts of investigations for governments around the world, especially the USA's allies and partners.

    An FBI investigation into the runnings of the RCIPS might be the answer to this situation….because, if the corrupt elements within the RCIPS are not discovered and rooted out…..

    I'll leave the rest of my statement to the imagination.

    I am not stupid, naive or brainwashed enough to believe or be forced or intimidated into believing that drugs and guns just go 'missing' from police stations, storehouses and armouries by 'mistake'.

     

    • Anonymous says:

      Another statement reminding us of how important the Cayman Islands are in the world.

      Of course the FBI <insert other law enforcement group> are going to rush down to Cayman to conduct an investigation into 2 missing guns. They'll probably drop a few murder/terrorism cases just to focus on us and will also do it free of charge. Why not redeploy several SWAT teams from LA etc. I'm sure they need a holiday.

      Do you really think that any crime in Cayman is going to be on anyones mind other than the tourist thats about to visit and decides to check the local paper out before arriving.

      You do realise that this island is just a spec of fly poo in the ocean and has a population base similar to a tiny town in the US or England. The island has had resources available that any city in the world would love to have yet they are squandered and wasted because there is absolutely no appreciation for what we have on this island. Instead, corruption is allowed to bloom because the promise of a big pay day is just on the horizon and we wouldn't want to be the person to ruin it for everyone now, would we?

      Grab, grab, grab. Just how many greasy palms are there on this rock eh?

       

  22. R.U. Kiddin says:

    Don't worry!  If it doesn't get turned in during this amnesty period, SURELY it will be turned in during the next one…….. or the next one, or the next one.

  23. Justus! says:

     

    COMMISSIONER! I trust you will let us know if these weapons were used in any of the cases below.
     
    Just a reminder of my list. I compiled this list for you on July 25, 2011 and I'll keep adding to it as the incompetence of yourself and the entire RCIP unfolds. Just in case you haven't seen it. Now I'm fairly certain that it's incomplete. I invite others to add to it where necessary. One last question before I type the list… Where's Anna! Or do you think we would forget.
     
    Reflections x 7
    Kemar Golding shot in the face at Red Bay Jerk Stand
    Medsadie Connor shot twice when leaving work – Bodden Town Gas Station
    Robbery, shots fired at GT Esso – July 15th
    Armed robbery at Jose's on June 3rd
    CNB Attempted bank robbery – June 2011
    Butterfield Bank burglary attempt – Discovery Day tunnel – May 2011
    Fidelity Bank hold-up – September 2010
    CNB robbery – February 2010
    Butterfield Bank robbery – November 2010
    FirstCaribbean Bank armed robbery – March 2011
    Shots fired at GT apartment (luckily nobody injured) – June 2011
    Foster's Food Fair Strand – shots fired – luckily robbery foiled
    63-yo man robbed and assaulted outside Archie's bar in GT
    Royal Palms armed robbery – July 2011
    McRuss Robbery – May 2011
    Male employee of Hammerheads armed robbery – May 2011
    Robbed by knifepoint at Batabano West Bay – May 2011
    Crewe Road Minimart – hit many times
    Armed robbery of business man at home in West Bay – May 2011
    Miss Elaine's Restaurant armed robbery – April 2011
    DVD Store armed robbery, store clerk pistol whipped – March 2011
    Delivery man robbed and abducted – February 2011
    Man mugged in Public Beach bathroom – February 2011
    Schoolboys robbed leaving John Gray High School – February 2011
    Attempted armed robbery at Downtown KFC – February 2011
    Timbuctuu robbed several times
    ADDED by CNS READERS: 2 stabbings at 2 consecutive full moon parties one of which was a tourist
    ADDED by CNS READERS: Armed robbery of rugby club Halloween party 2010
    ADDED by CNS READERS: Shooting at Next Level night club
    ADDED by CNS READERS: Multiple home invasions
     
    Joe Ena Liquor Store robbed … 5 seconds from WB Police Station
    WHERE IS ANNA!?!?!?!
    • Anonymous says:

      Great Post, my question is how many persons have been arrested? Ah forget that how many have been CONVICTED!!!!???

      ANYONE???

      • Justus! says:

        Exactly. That's my point for posting this. 1) the crimes are HAPPENING frequently, and 2) they are not being solved.

  24. Anonymous says:

    Maybe they should have a gun amnesty to reteieve stolen police weapons…

  25. Anonymous says:

    The RCIPS are just so good at confirming their incompetance.  I cringe at the sight of a policemen now knowing he is being paid for being useless to society.  It seems most people I know agree how incompetent the police are.  And of course the criminals act on it.

    How sad to have such an ill disciplined bunch of people.  Just the other day I wtinessed a policeman standing in the middle of the road taking pictures of the roadway.  He is stood in the middle of a four way crossing expecting the traffic to understand what?  His uniform?

    What in idiot to have no regard for road safety.  These are the people employed to enforce laws!

  26. Anonymous says:

    Just so there is no misunderstanding this is not the USA where officers' firearms are part of their personal kit and retained by them 24/7, it is (or should be) the UK system where firearms are issued on an 'as required' basis and stored at a police facility when not in use.

    What has happened suggests that, rather than firearms being issued and returned for a specific shift, duty or operation and then inventoried daily, some are either being released on what amounts to permanent loan (there was a case of this reported back in 2007) or armed officers are simply not being required to hand in their firearms when they go off duty.

    I don't know how many firearms the RCIPS has but I suspect that the loss of one handgun represents a significant percentage of the total. Similarly, out of a force of 300 the number who have access to firearms must be fairly small. If this missing handgun cannot be traced back to the last person who signed it out then heads should roll. 

    The public might also like to be informed about the exact circumstances under which seven weapons have had to be 'written off'. Again this seems to be a significant number.

  27. Anonymous says:

    the key word is Weapons…WOW and computerized records were a bad idea in 2005, oops were in 2011; and still using handwritten diaries.

    hey chief all firearms since 2001 are bar coded and who does the inventory control, maybe they have it for safe keeping.

  28. Castor says:

    Oh boys, what a field day the posters will have with this article.

     

  29. Anon says:

    Is this the last straw? A weapon missing from the RCIPS weapons inventory for over one year and the RCIPS were not aware of this?  How often do they inventory the their arsenal? Lord have mercy on us.  

  30. AnonymousSick and Tired of the B...S... says:

    President Truman said it – “the buck stops here” when he acknowledged that at the end of the day, HE was ultimately responsible and accountable for everything – That “buck” now sits right in the middle of Commissioner Baines’ desk. He is barely capable of managing a pack of Cub Scouts……….

  31. Anonymous says:

    Define "lost". Too bad Boris will be rolled over in a year.