Church in NBF cash bust up
(CNS): The former pastor of the Wesleyan Holiness Church, West Bay, has raised questions about claims made by the current pastor over how cash from the controversial Nation Building Fund was used in what appears to be a major bust up between the two religious leaders. Following the return of over $720,000 last month to government from an original grant of $1.3 million, the church said US$125,000 of the government cash was used to pay off the church’s mortgage. However, Pastor John Case, who led the church at the time, said this is untrue as the loan was paid off with the church’s own funds, not from the NBF grant, and has queried what happened to the money. Documents shown to CNS support the former pastor’s claim but Pastor Denis McCoy has accused his predecessor of twisting the truth.
The current pastor said that the money used to pay off the loan was always intended to be replaced by the cash which came from the Nation Building Fund, as noted in correspondence from the premier, and he said the former pastor and church treasurer, Garfield Powery, were “playing with words”.
The loan payment of almost $125,000 depleted the church accounts, McCoy stated, and as a result, money was taken from the Nation Building Fund grant and distributed into general reserves.
However, documentation held by former church elders demonstrates that the church had already received the government grant when the loan was paid off using cash that came from donations and the church’s self-insurance account for hurricane protection and not the grant.
In an open letter to the press regarding the details, Case said the decision to pay off the loan with existing church money was made in November of 2009. On 7 January 2010 US$46,428.57 was transferred from the regular church account to its hurricane fund to make a final payment of US$124,686.72 to the loan company and bank fees of $202.81, making a total expenditure of $124,889.53 on 15 January, after the money from government had been received and paid into another account.
“While this depleted the hurricane fund, it did not deplete the CI funds the church and school had and none of these funds were from the government grant,” Case wrote in his letter. “The funds transferred were collected for the pay-off or were reserved CI funds. If the pastor and current board would do an audit they would find that the Government funds (from the initial nation building grant) of $250,000.00, which was what we had received of the Government Grant up till that time, were still in the accounts and that there were plenty of funds left in both the church and Wesleyan Christian Academy CI accounts for operational expenses.”
A church elder showed Cayman News Service the statements, cheques and other documentation that supported this claim, but the current pastor was adamant that this was not the case. He said that while funds may have been transferred, this created a hole in the church cash reserves, which everyone had agreed would be replaced by the Nation Building Fund grant.
“They knew the money was coming from government and so they took all the money they had and paid off the loan knowing the grant was coming,” he said. “They are trying to make it look as though they did something noble and imply that me or someone did something wrong but that is a lie; we accounted for every penny,” he said. “I am so sorry that Pastor Case chose to get involved in this and take the low road to say someone has done something inappropriate. They are playing with words they paid off the loan knowing this money was coming.”
However, the former church board told CNS that Pastor Denis McCoy was not in Cayman at the time and that they simply did not need the $125,000 or so for the loan as they had it covered – something which the outgoing pastor had wanted to achieve before he left, leaving the new pastor with no outstanding loan payments. The church’s own money was used after the government grant arrived, which was sitting in a different account. In addition, the church statements show that the account still had money after the loan was paid.
“What is significant in the claims made by Pastor McCoy is that the account we used to pay off the loan was not the account where the grant was held,” said a church elder who was involved in the re-payment of the loan. “When we had a meeting about the money with Pastor McCoy no one was allowed to ask questions about what had happened to that money,” he said, emphasising again that the loan re-payment did not deplete the church coffers.
The church elder told CNS that despite the letter from the premier, the church did not need the Nation Building Fund grant for the loan; it needed it to build a much-needed hurricane centre for West Bay.
See full details in letter from Pastor Case below.
Related artilces on CNS:
Category: Local News
Where there is smoke there is fire…I hear the Pastor McCoy resigned!
"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and god does not take to support it so its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign. I apprehend, of its being a bad one." Benjamin Franklin.
This is so Shameful! As a young person I think Bro. Case, Bro. McCoy, Garfield Powery and others pushing this should be ashamed of themselves for bringing this out into the public like this. I have never seen such unChristian behavior in my short life. I know these two men very well and have looked up to them and have respected them in the past. Now I am appalled by their behavior that they have preached against in the past. Think about the young children, teenagers, and young adults watching your behavior. What both pastors need to realize is that they will send as many people to hell as they did to heaven because of this unGodly behavior. There is no excuse to bring this out in the public to further discourage lost souls from attending church. I certainly don't want to live like the two of you or listen to you preach about what I should do in my life when you can't get it together and live Godly yourselves. Both need to get together, figure this out, repent and apologize to the public for this behavior or they will never be taken seriously again. Both men can be forgiven by God but the public will not be so quick to forgive.
Well said! Every word is so true.
None of these people (especially the 3 named) will ever be respected or effective Church leaders in the Cayman Islands again, no matter how holy and wonderful people say they are/were. Never! Such a disgrace.
I pray for the West Bay WHC and the people that attend there, and hope that God smiles on them and provides a good Shepherd for this Church. Heaven knows they need it!
AS A MEMBER OF THE WESLEYAN HOLINESS CHURCH I MUST SAY THAT ALTHOUGH I DON't AGREE WITH WHAT HAS TAKEN PLACE ALL OF THIS COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED IF IT WAS DONE THE WAY THAT IT WAS PROPOSED NO ONE WANTS THEIR NAME TO BE TARNISHED WITH ANYTHING, WHICH SOMETIMES WE WILL BE ACCUSED FALFELY, BUT WHEN WE KNOW FOR A FACT THAT WE ARE ACCUSED FALFELY WE WILL DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO CLEAR OUR NAME. WHY NOT HAVE AN INDEPENDENT AUDIT AS SUGGESTED. TO 13:41 I AM REJOICING THAT THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD I SHALL NOT WANT: PSALM 23:1 HE IS THE ONE I WORSHIP!!
Peacemaker
When you are aware of the accusations being placed upon you and you tried to settle the issue between you and the accuser but you are told it's none of your business what would you do? I don't think it's right for anyone to be making coments about righter of these Preachers without knowing the facts.
I am not the messiah, i am a very naughty boy. Follow the Gourd, not follow the sandal !
I'm Brian, and so's my wife!
Reading all these blogs on here, it would seem that we have the some of the most un-Christian Christians in the whole of Christendom…hate, revenges, rumour mongering, lies…all the things I thought Christians were supposed to be above…
Cheer up. Put on your beard, buy a decent bag of rocks and go to the next stoning.
Its certainly the last days. Prophecy are certainly fulfilling. I really feel embarassed although I am not a member of the church but from another Religion. However we all believe in God and it is so sad what is happening. I do believe that there are too many Religions and churches in Cayman now a day, and I hope that God is not angry at my comments but its all about money making, no wonder that the former Premier wants to go in the business in the next four years.
Amen Pastor Case! You were and still are the best male pastor ever to be Wesleyan! McCoy needs to pack his bags and go! We want the old Weselyan back! Both the church AND the school! Haven't been back to that church since this man took over. XXXX
God bless
bless what?
There are lots of people who disagree!!! Pastor McCoy is the best person to come to WHC in over 18 + years!!
People. Please keep this squabble to yourselves. As a Christian I find it embarrassing that it is taking place on CNS of all places.
Pastor Case, we have known you for over 22 years and know that you are telling the truth. Weselyan & WCA is not the same since you and Ms. Betty left the Chruch & School. If Weslelyn and want a come back they need another Pastor like Bro. Case and the members will come back and me myself will attend again.
My kids attented WCA under the leadership of Bro & Sis. Case and it was well ran and no fight and war was there at that time but time changed and new Pastor and not Bro. Case was of making everyone feel welcome not matter who you were Bro & Sis. Case greeted everyone with a smile and hand shake but these now a days don't even say hello.
This is what the Caymanians are all about a friendly hello and smile and feel welcome to the Lord House and not for these to feel like ittheir house that we are visiting. Brother Case and Sister Case we the people of West Bay Love and miss you so much!
Here is a solution to this nasty and disgraceful feud between these two arrogant, self-centered dictators who call themselves Shepherds, Spiritual leaders, Pastors and people who "love the WB Wesleyan Holiness Church".
Solution: Instead of dragging the West Bay WHC through the mud, disgracing and dividing the Church, – this Church that you both proclaim to love and have both pastored and both benefitted from; you should both be REAL MEN and do the right, decent and responsible thing and sit face to face and thrash this out between themselves. IF you are unable or unwilling to do that then find themselves a boxing rink somewhere in the middle of nowhere and fight to the death.
But please, please leave the WHC in peace. The Church has suffered enough because of the irresponsible actions of these TWO MEN. They have both created a monster out of what should have been a simple business transaction. That is what happens when $$$ signs blind their eyes and instead of doing God's work they wrap themselves in the cloak of greed!
Dennis McCoy, please pack your bags and go home.
John Case, if you're the "saint" that some poor blinded soul thinks you are, please stay out of WHC business, you are not a member, not the Pastor and definitely NOT A FRIEND of the WB WHC.
You have both done irrepairable damage to our Church and you will be held accountable to God for your actions. Trust me, you won't fool him with your fast talking or lengthy letters. God have mercy on your souls.
Now what will we do with Mac – the CREATOR of the NBF and whole mess?
TO: 16:53
What a great solution!
GET OUT THERE AND FIGHT TO THE DEATH!
SAID LIKE A TRUE CHRISTIAN!!
Hope you're not the New Pastor.
To 13:50 – what, pray tell, would be your solution, oh holy one!!!
Have you had a heavenly vision and been told there a new pastor in the "making"?
To be a Real Man you must keep out of this Church's business!!!
Thank You Bro Case for setting the record straight..You are truly a man of GOD so sorry these people choose too run you through the mud ..My advice too you keep your head up as GOD knows the truth..Even if this man refuse too tell it.
A true man of God would not be trying to tear down a Church he previously pastored!!
Corruption is defined as the abuse of a position of trust for the benefit of yourself, your friends, your family, financiers or in the case of this context, large pools of voters.
When one reads works of and or listen to scholars such as but not limited to Trevor Munroe and Afra Raymond, one common thread appears; Corruption is one of, if not, the leading cause why Governments go broke, a Country’s poor people stay poor and ignorant typically resulting in increased violent crimes.
Therefore based on the aforementioned bi-products of Corruption, my perspective on local politics and life has been somewhat defined because of the sheer lack of statistical data available to the general public in any facet of life in the Cayman Islands. Consequently, my thought process is largely based on anecdotal evidence; I simply unfolded any given newspaper from the last twenty or so years and what greeted me was that a significant portion of Headlines featuring Crime or Criminality emanated or transpired in the district of West Bay.
However, I submit that if we (the Cayman Islands) were to utilize statistical and analogical evidence rounded off with testimonial evidence in a Study of Grand Cayman’s socioeconomic issues similar to the Yolande C. Forde Study on Pre-Disposing Factors to Criminality in the Cayman Islands. It may not be unreasonable to say the conclusion may corroborate my anecdotal findings insofar that West Bay in terms of Criminality; serious crimes, drug or substance abuse and incarcerated residents register a higher percentage than other districts. Recent Headlines herein or elsewhere (pick one) further bolster this line of thought.
In conclusion, what is unfolding in this article is much more far-reaching and damning than just affecting one Church, but the entire community of West Bay. I, a West Bay resident and a member of the larger community ofthe Cayman Islands, charge The Chief of Police, the Anti-corruption Task Force and the Director of Public Prosecutions, not to allow this “lil’ church spat” to fizzle away, but to probe further in an effort to quash the corruption that appears to be rife and acceptable in the Cayman Islands especially in the supposed last bastion of hope, and truth; the Church. Failure to do so may result in the Cayman Islands becoming another statistic of failed and Bankrupt Caribbean Nations.
With reference to the anonymous comment posted at 9.07 on the 2nd Aug 2013, the poster could look up the reference in St. John's Gospel where "Jesus wept", to check on the credibility of his or her own comment.
Following this the poster might profitably look up and study the link
http://www.churchofenglandcayman.com/dependencyquestion.html
to obtain the information that he or she appears to lack with regard to one of the problematic areas mentioned.
I shall have to leave the other problematic areas to others to respond to if they consider it to be worthwhile.
I am sure it would be helpful in general for posters to be more careful with their comments which, if they are barbed, so often come back like a boomerang to hurt them.
+Nicholas, George Town
No one other than Mr Sykes, Douglas Calder and the handful of people that left theAnglican Church with Mr Sykes and Mr Calder to set up the new church cares a jot about the supposed arcane and dubious philosophical underpinning set out in Mr Sykes and Mr Calder's work on the matter. We just cared about the divisive effect it had on our church.
Amen, 10:28.
Spoken like a typical preacher, rev Sykes. Empty threats of magical revenge designed to frighten simple minds. Get a real job and stop peddling fairy tales.
If church leaders are suddenly interested in doing the right thing and returning money to its rightful owners, how about returning some of the money they collected from the poor saps in the pews all these years?
Telling people crazy stories about miracles, magic and gods and then taking their money with the promise of a big payoff AFTER they die is unconscionable.
Tithing has to be the greatest conjob in human history. If your god needs money then go find him and give it to HIM personally (good luck with that). Don't give your money to a preacher who says he'll be happy to hold it for God. Anyone can make that promise. Besides, if your god needs a middleman to handle cash, he ain't too impressive.
Wake up people, spend your money on your children and your society. Stop giving it to some preacher who pretends to be treasurer for an invisible being.
What the heck foolishness does "+Nicholas" mean? I googled this and this church and pastor seem to have been recognised only by some rinky-dink Canadian group from British Columbia. It is worth spending half an hour on this, reading online nonsense years back from massively wealthy lawyer Douglas Calder (Maples and…) (resident of Buckingham House, Cayman -this is not a joke) to the Archbishop of Canterbury (I jest not), rabbitting on about how the West Indian Anglicans did something wrong with the 1632 (or something) book of common prayer (well, of course, my dear, they are west indians, how could they possibly understand the subtle nuances of such a sublime holy document?). Sorry, but I have to agree with that other poster, "no wonder Jesus wept".
19:41, I would leave poor old Mr Sykes alone. What you say is basically true but in the end of the day our Anglican Church was not materially negatively affected. He and his few supporters obviously had an "English thing" and they were even at one point tryingto import stone by stone an old English church from England. Silly, troubling stuff which some authority or other stopped but it just affirms what you call the "rinky-dink" aspect of it all. Leave them to it. They are irrelevant.
Why do you say "Mr. Sykes"? Is he not properly ordained?
Mr. Sykes is better now he claims to be Bishop Sykes.
If I put on a silly frock and a funny hat and get some of my mates, also with silly frocks and funny hats, to put their hands on my head, am I properly ordained 13:35?
No, of course not. What's your point?
Only if your mates have in turn had hands laid on them by still more men in silly frocks and funny hats who have, themselves, received the authority to lay hands from the Archbishop of Canterbury, who has the silliest frock and funniest hat of all of them.
That would be OK if "poor old Mr Sykes" left US alone. He has interfered with life in Cayman for years, opposing basic fundamental rights because they were not aligned with his fundamentalist views. If he stops playing politics we will leave him to his bizarre preaching.
I am curious, what makes his preaching "bizarre"?
I'm not the poster you are responding to 17:36, but I can give you my answer: I would not say his preaching is bizarre, I would say it is unintelligible. As are/weresome of his Net News columns.
He is deep.
Yes man, him deep fe true.
It is a bit Monty Python.
All the money needs to be paid back including the church in Bodden Town. I believe that greed was the reason they took the money in the first place. I always had difficulty in believing in the vote buying fund under the disguise as a nation building fund.
There is no money that needs to be paid back by the BT COG. It was a partnership for a church building which could serve as a hurricane shelter. Govt. has not actually paid all that it owes under the partnership.
Well 08/03/2013 – 12:59 I beg to differ! The money given to the Bodden Town Church of God DOES need to be paid back to the government just as the Wesleyan Church and others did. The incomplete building is sitting there as a sore eye and certainly not looking as if the major amount of money given by the government was invested in it. I hope to God it is true that government has not paid all that it agreed under the so called "partnership". Government "owes" that church nothing further! Those funds are needed to help pay the huge debt staring us in the face for the new, extravigant admin building, incase you didn't know or don't care about that little point! The former government should not have been giving astronomical amounts of money, that it could not afford, to churches or any other entities in the first place. The moral of this headline story is, "Churches have no place in politrix". If y'all have a problem believing that go and read your bibles and find out what Jesus Christ did when he lost his temper after finding corruption in the church.
You can beg to differ all you like but it changes nothing. You cannot enter into an agreement to contribute certain sums towards a project which is being done partly in your own interest and then renege on it when the other party has incurred its own costs relying on you to make good on your commitment. You have no idea what govt. does or does not owe so you are speaking out of turn.
Your ignorance does not become you 08/05/2013 – 12:36. Anyone interested to keep abreast news stories would know something of government's significant debt, therefore, not only are you speaking out of turn but you are exposing how out of touch and ignorant you are. The fact is, the government should not have been meddling in the building of this church with contributions but likewise the church had an option not to take it.
There is nothing worse than the sort of belligerent ignorance in your post.
CIG did not "meddle in this building of the church". CIG recognised a good opportunity for a partnership from which it, and the public, would have benefitted greatly – upgrading a structure from a standard church building to a hurricane grade structure in a district where there is no purpose-built hurricane shelter. The benefits are obvious:
1. CIG would not have to purchase suitable land to build its own structure.
2. CIG would not have the cost of maintaining the facility once built.
3. CIG would not have a facility that is essentially a waste of funds as it sits idle for months at a time.
4. CIG would not have the cost of insuring the property.
5. CIG would always have use of the building when needed.
Clearly, this was much more economic than CIG building its own purpose-built hurricane shelter. The $9m Hurricane Hilton in Cayman Brac may give you an idea of what the savings would have been. CIG's contribution to the partnership was supposed to be based on quantity surveyor estimates for the cost of the upgrade. That aspect alone, and none of the ancillary costs. Rather than decrying the church for "taking contributions for the building of church", you should be praising it for its willingness to take on an additional burden and cost for the public benefit. But that would require a fair and intelligent mind.
Anon 1826 the Bodden Town COG was quite willing to go and build their church with their own money however the CIG approached them to convert it to a hurricane shelter. For it to be built for such a purpose the building had to be built to a significant higher standard this drove up the cost of that building significantly. Unfortunately for you and for those in CIG that made that decision they have to see it through. That eye sore is more a result of the CIG that the Bodden Town COG.
And yes I do agree with you that the money could have been spent better elsewhere. however it was the CIG that made that decision not the Bodden Town COG.
Current Pastor, both of the men you state are playing with words are men of INTEGRITY! That being said, it is the figures from the bank THAT DONT LIE sir.
Why ,why,why, do people not listen and open their eyes! Why? There are so many things that are said in the name of Jesus to mislead the innocent and to get them to follow unscrupulous and deceptive persons who profess to be men and women of God. What those who blindly follow the teachings and preaching of these so called religious leaders fail to do is, "THINK", because if they took the time to do that, they will know that most of what these people are saying to them is for one purpose only. That is to convince anyone who will listen, to fall in line and follow them. And the moment you do, you have given up your ability to "THINK" for yourself.
Read what the greatest of all religious leaders "JESUS" said in Mark:10, verses 17 thru 22. These words of wisdom should be followed by everyone who believes in God, and by doing so you will see a miraculous change in your life. What is so very sad, is to hear those preachers who insist that each of their congregation should give a love gift [$25.00 or more] so as to receive a blessing, a blessing which is inferred to be some financial of material wealth. The church which is often referred to as the House of God is in a lot of cases no different than "the den of thieves that Jesus spoke about when he chased themoney changers out of the temple. And I firmly believe there are some Churches like that here in Cayman.
With the Island being in the worst financial shape that I can recall and the greatest number of poor people looking to Government for help, will somebody please tell us how many of these churches have a place [soup kitchen] where these poor people can go to get a free meal or a piece of clothing or just to hear someone tell them that they should keep the faith and that one day this will all change for the better! I don't know of one such place! And if there are none, why don't the churches pool their resources and get it going.
We have to stop putting your trust in these "charlatans" who jump off a plane and come here with all the smooth talk and fake smiles, and start reading the bible trusting in God and he will help you to understand every thing you read. God gave you a brain as good as that of any Preacher, so why not use it, and with the bible as your guide I,m sure you'll do quite well.
Just remember there are a lot of Jim Jones' still out there so "THINK".
Just want to share that the John Gray Memorial Church in West Bay has a food pantry which is open Monday through Friday & where many in the West Bay community go to receive food & other necessities. There is also a soup kitchen 2 Saturdays each month when soup is delivered to the needy in the community. I believe there are other churches in Cayman which offer similar ministries also.
"…give a piece of clothing"? Nah, they hold garage sales instead.
I am a member of the Wesleyan HolinessChurch,West bay. So sad that our Church has come to this. we have a board that dont even know the facts, yet they are in a position of leadership. But, you cant TWIST the truth and the banks are not liers. The records speak for themselves. " Then you would know the truth, and the truth shall set you free" John 8: 32 Gods church will not fail but will be purged!!
The truth shall set you free, but not before its finished with you.- David Foster Wallace
Shane, our Church is in this mess because of your "saint", Mr. perfect, John Case. Thank him for this mess, don't blame the board members.
Sorry to rebuke you on this, however it was not the pastor but the board that agreed to build a hurricane shelter with the help of the governemnt.. It is minuted in the secretary's documents.
Anonymous 08/05/2013 – 18:37 – And how do you know what is in the Church Secretary's minutes? Were you a board member during 2009-2010?
If so, you should know that the board that agreed and went along with Pastor Case's insistence on this project was led by the Vice Chairman at that time – the same individual that is described as "Men of Integrity" in an earlier posting and the same individual that is quoted in the above CNS article.
Since you have inside knowledge of what's in the Secretary's minutes, you should have no trouble finding out who the Vice Chairman was when the money was accepted and project agreed on.
to the anonymous mouth piece. just want to let you know that if Bro. Case was at fault then they(the board) must have been sleeping just like how they are now. But, on the contrarary, Bro. Case did not act on his own during these negoations , the WHOLE BOARD was delighted AND IN AGREEMENT to go into this partnership with the govt and was delighted when they received the first $250,000.00 from the NBF.The whole Board also agreed and the membership (with the exception of 2 no votes which was my wife and I) about building the huricane shelter when Pastor Mccoy put up all those pretty pictures of what was suppose to be the hurricane shelter, this of course was after the Cases left the Islands.Had Bro. Case stiil been here we would have had our Hurricane shelter by now just like how he seen to it that the church was rebuilt after hurricane Ivan and just like how he seen to it that the church was debt free before he left these shores called The Cayman Islands. Just for the record, they did not deplete the church funds to pay off the church as suggested by our current Pastor AND BRO.GARFIELD WAS NOT THE TREASURER. There were plenty funds left as the BANK records can prove. Enough said on that. On another note, let me say, there is no hatred in my heart against anyone,I can't hate and say i am within Gods will, it's contrary. God forgave me, so who i am i to hold anything against anyone?but i will not condone any actions that seem blurry to me.I am just a sinner saved by Gods grace, but because God forgave me and saved me by HIS grace that dont mean i have a license to continue on in sin, so therfore,each day i look to Him for guidance. Enough said on that too.Now,to all you of the world who seem to want to put down the Church and what it stands for and who God is, let me put it to you very short and sweet '' Gods word in Romans 14:11-12 says, and i quote, '' It is written: As surely as i live;says the Lord,every knee will bow before Me (GOD) and every tongue will confess to God. So then, each of us will give an acount of himself to God'' end of quote.(that means me, you and everyone else) So please prepare your minds, you will not live forever but when your number is called it will be forever. Chose the good life and reap the eternal reward of meeting your Maker and spending eternity there with. I pray God will open your eyes and give you a receptive heart to HIS word and that you all would draw closer to Him and accept Him before it's too late. Amen!!
Gee wizz, are you sure about that? Seems like there's plenty of hatred being blurted out over this issue and these individuals. We shall all have to give an account of our actions, our words and our attitudes my brother, don't fool yourself and think that there will be any partiality with God. He is a just judge.
anytime someone speaks the truth they all of a sudden get the "you hate them talk" no hatred, just want the facts to be clear. ok anonymous??? God is not partial, i am sensible enough to know that too!!! so work on the plank in your eye and i will work on mine.
No plank my brother. I am just an individual who is ashamed of this whole thing. And to think it is being perpetrated by members of the Church. I really wouldn't want to see what you all would do if you were not a member of the Church. God help you all.
i have spoken and know what i stand for. Think what you like but it's not really important what you think. Read the word (COVER TO COVER) and see what real men stood for, they didnt really worry about the warp thinking of the world and what they would think. By the way,God is my help.
Anyone can read the Bible (the Word), and that's good and important but that is not enough.
The important thing is to DO what the Word says, put it into practice "…..not rendering evil for evil or railing for railing …" 1 Peter 3:9 – I'm sure you've read that part, right? Actually you should (we all should) read the entire book of 1 Peter – there's some really good advice there for all of us who have allowed ourselves to be captivated by this mess and disgrace perpetrated on the Church by it's own pastors and members (notice the lower case "p" and "m"). I am still praying for the WB WHC and it's people.
Isn't this church thing getting a little bit old. People have been praying for centuries and things just keep getting worse. White collar crime is massive, burglaries are rampant, every bartender is supporting the drug trade, gang life is the norm. Give it up !! This place has gone to Hades.
A white wash of the previous administrations; focused, willing and able police force, cooperation from the public at large, and fiscal responsibility are the only thing that can save these trampled isles.
May God have mercy on your soul.
And may the force be with you.
The problem with a growing section of society is that in their views the church is to blame for everything that goes wrong and get no credit for anything that goes right.
You have turned my Fathers house into a den of theives
You sit in a throne of lies!!
cayman… a land full of scam churches and gullible natives…..
Couldn't resist an opportunity to stick one in could you? I dare say that scams, including those perpetuated by a minority in organized religion are not unique to the Cayman Islands.
In EU most dodgy church sects are shut down before they open their doors, or very shortly thereafter..
Clear as mud!
My questions are: Why did Mac dole out the money to the churches if they did not need it? And why did the churces accept it?
Sure appears to be motivated by buying favour with the churches eh?
Clear as clear.
I am surprised that they did not use the "Power of Prayer" to make all this go away.
The "POWER OF PRAYER" is being used, it is just that GOD is biding HIS own time and when HE answers it's going to be a WONDERFUL DAY!!!! The time that some of you take to make the comments you do, take that time to read your BI|BLE and know what GOD said about idle tongues and ask him to help you to not judge others.Look at yourselves before judging others and go to Church on Sunday.
The bible itself has been distorted and corrupted and rewritten to suit oh let's see a few Kings, the Catholic church. Formal logic 101 how do you know God exists, answer the bible tells me so, follow up question, how do you know the bible is right, answer because it is the word of God, ahem dog chasing its tail circular argument. I prefer to put my energy into faith not written documents that are so conflicted because originally they weren't even written for the masses who could not read. I need no church to guide me in my spiritual life which is very fulfilling. I need no priest, preacher or minister to remind me how to conduct myself, I was brought up to walk my talk, be honest to help others without being asked to not judge and none of those lessons came from traditional religious zealots. I need no day to be a specific day dedicated to my spirit/soul everyday is that day. The Churches of this country are so full of corruption, persecution, judgment that they have no right to toss down. That money should have gone to indeed soup kitchens, vocational and trade schools literacy programs, that is how you build a nation through education and outreach not by zealots who think a building can contain the relationship between a human being and that higher power oh what glass houses these churches are and no I am not an ex-pat for those who want to say go back to your own country, this is my country and it disgusts me to see the people being sheep or worse playing lip service to their Christian values whilst these handouts are given inappropopriately.
Wow, all of a sudden I have this urge to stone you for your comment, please ask for prayers for me to be delivered from this feeling to violent just as set out in the Bible – smh!! have a seat with all your religious rantings we are sick and tired of hearing it !!!!! we all have to endure the same trials everyday so obviously you praying makes no difference – people are still getting critically ill and dying, children are still being molested and murdered, tell me one thing that prayer changes, just one thing, anyone? anybody? —- thought so!
They stopped praying when they saw what it was doing to mac.
Right on, brother. As my mother taught us, religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.
Ok Bretheren. This is not the time for a gool old fashioned West Bay church fight…
Just put your tithes and offerings in a white envelope addressed to:
Mis-appropriated Govt Funds Dept
Attn Bro Marco
And drop it off at that pretty new Government Administrative Building.
I have had a talk with St Peter and he says that all will be forgiven if you just repay the funds and never let Lucifer through your church door again…
Dont mess with a man and his money eh? A bunch of sponges these church Pastors are, all of them !! money, money, money, tithes, tithes, tithes, offerings, offerings, blessings, blessings – what the hell ever !! I am over all these churches – swindling money from these folks who are so manipulated and blinded by the very few scriptures repeated throughout the year just with a different twist, loud thumping and shouting – I wish my people would really take the time to read the entire bible from front to back and tell me if that is the way we really want to live our lives – hatred, murder, adultry and more – all these things and the consequences are in the book of wickedness ! I no longer even own a bible and I live a happy-go-lucky life, doing good and respecting others. Thugs of the Cloth!
Consequences. Thats the important point.
Anon@09:44 You are lost in sin. Get down on your knee and ask forgiveness of the most the most High God for forgiveness of your sins and he will clense you from sin. God is so good you can blaspheme against Him and His holy bible and He is willing to forgive you. What a nice civil society we live in? If you were in Iran Kuwait, Iraq and you make such statement about the Koran , we would be reading about you on this web site. May you see the light before its too late. Another thing, were you raised in a christian home? were your parent Athiests or Christians? Did you say prayers at school? Were any of your deceased older relatives given a christian burial? Were any of your family Married in a Church? Were they even married, since marriage was ordained by God and is based on Christian principles. Were you or any of your family dedicated in a church when they were born? Do you think you will get old and die or die young one of these days? If so you ever thought of what you would say before you draw your dying breath? If everyone in Cayman took your approach to life we would not be living in a country free of persecution. think about this: What if the whole 53000 population of Cayman starts thinking the way youthink , can you imagine the kind of society that we would live in?
I just know I would reach your conscience. Thats it . Keep thimking about these questions
Harrow, you are lost and all wrapped up in the rubbish you are spewing, when you have proof of the "promised land" come back and we can chat. You are just another one of those manipulated and blinded fools.
Dear "Harrow" did you mean ARROW? You seem to speak in a manner which indicates that your dialect is that of another Island and your written grammar basically confirms seems to confirm that this is correct!
Here is a little verse from the bible that holds true no matter whether you are a "Christian" or a follower of any other Religion.
And I quote from the Bible: FAITH IS THE SUBSTANCE OF THINGS HOPED FOR,THE EVIDENCE OF THINGS NOT SEEN. In other words what it says basically, is that, if you believe in yourself and can visualize in your minds eye the attainment of those things that you hope for, you will succeed!
Then there is a little book written back in the seventeen hundreds entitled: AS A MAN THINKETH!
Go on line, and /or check out your local book stores! This book basically says the same thing but is written in a manner that explains more vividly the power of thought, and how one can achieve anything without the help of some Religious Leader.
GOD IS IN ALL OF US, JUST TAKE TIME TO LISTEN AND YOU'LL HEAR HIM SPEAK. AND HE'LL GIVE YOU ALL THE ANSWERS!!
anon@ who said that the fact that that you detected repititionand/or incorrect grammer or punctuation in my post, or that you might have had a problem with the geographic location where i might be writing from ,or where i am from, is neither here or there?. Who made you an English Examiner over me? You understood what I wrote, did'nt you?. Some people believe that where a person are from carries with it a certain esteem but that has nothing to do with the truth. Yes I might not be an English scholar but , I am not applying to you for a job. I am not in need of one. The truth is crystal clear. Do you believe in God and if not why not?. I am free, like it or not, literate, semi-literate or not ,to exercise my freedom of expression by this medium. It does not matter that you would rather certain people refrain from putting post on this site. what I basically said in my post is that many self-made athiests are just followers. they were raised up in christian homes, or religion played a part in their upbringing ,and when they are in dangerous situations or about to die they do express"Oh God help me", or something similar. This means that deep down in their hearts there is a yearning for a God or a "being to worship". So why deny and pretend?. Admit that you(The poster I addressed) are a sinner and repent and don't deny the existence of God or the Bible. Some fundamentalist countries enforce their religions on their populations with the sanctions of severe, or the ultimate punishments ,but here in Cayman ,Western Democrat Principles prevail and people are free to worship God (or not to if they so choose and face Hell's Damnation)
You need not teach me about "Faith" my friend .I live by faith. I was raised up on that and it has ruled my life and make me what I am in Christ and in my business affairs.
As to the book "As a Man Thinketh",by the learned author James Allen, I am sure if you are below 35 yars old I may have read that book before you. You want some more suggestions of good books to make you or some of your friend's lives better.? Check these: "As a woman thinketh" by the same author, Think and Grow Rich-Napolion Hill, "The Power of Positive Thinking"- Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, "How to win Friends and influnce People"-Dale Carnagie, "The Magic of Thinking Big-Dr David Schwartz, "The five Major Pieces to Life's Puzzle"-Jim Rohn and "What They Don't Teach You in Harvard Business School"-Mark H.McCormack. For good measure check out "the Biography of Abraham Lincoln. "Don't judge a book by the cover" and don't go writing off people as a "Num Scull" ,because ,you see a post, you don't know who is behind it and the peoples of other Islands in this Caribbean Area are no worse off than the peoples of Cayman an Many Caymanians originally came here from other Islands, USA,Canada, or Europe ,South and Central America among other countries. God sees us as his creation no one is better than the other in his sight. God bless you and me too(laughing)
So many questions! Why did Mac give them $1.3m in the first place if they didn't need it and the country was at the time completely broke? Wsa it just so he could thump the pulpit and say he gave to the churches when his NBF slush fund was questioned? If the Church didn't need the money why did they accept it and then only give half of it back? They're arguing about $125,000 out of $580,000 that wasn't returned. Even if it was used for the loan (and I have my doubts about that) where is the remaining $455,000? Why can't the treasurer get access to the banking records and see where the money went?
There's nothing quite like the churches here when it comes to schisms/divisions and internal quarrelling! It used to be the SDAs then it was the "Church of England" that broke away from the Anglican Church, then various Church of Gods said they were holier than others then the Baptist Church split up and set up a rival version with a former pastor in Savannah and now we have Wesleyan Holiness at war with itself. Such a wonderful display of the Christian spirit! No wonder Jesus wept.
Pride…..it is the devil's favorite sin.
The Lord giveth and The Lord taketh away…
I know Brother Case (and miss him dearly) and I can say without fear of contradiction that he is a living saint. XXXX
If I were asked to believe one over the other, I wouldn't even need to hear Brother Case speak. He has proven himself to me over years and YEARS of knowing him – and that is saying a lot for my trust to be so total.
I don't think there is anything that can be done about the statement of accounts as the entire NBF scheme was dodgy and without accountability, but I for one will not let anyone attempt to taint, tarnish or slur the good name of John Case. He is a man loved by so many West Bayer AND Caymanians in general.
McCoy is not fit to shine his shoes.
I seem to recall, 08.52, that there is only one judge, and it is not you or I.
It seems there are quite a few that think they are the judge!!
This is the rock, upon which I shall build my church, and not even the gates of hell shall prevail against it. ( meaning, no man shall destroy his church) You all can flap your mouth and try, but the church is still standing after 2,000 years.
Man will come and man will pass away, but Christ church will stand till the end of time.
Don't all you bloggers forget this!!.
Mucky business…see what happens…questionable funds..questionable outcome, although the return was the right thing to do…maybe the state has to have a closer look at some of our more dubious churches…
It also need to look at our dubious pastors who write bounce cheques and involved in business outside of the church. The church is no longer role models in our society, and pastors are not respected.
"Dearly beloved,
Do as I say, not as I do."
Thank you, Pastor Case – a good, Godly man!
Oh, please! you make me sick at my stomach.
Politics and religion. If it is honest discourse we often have to agree to disagree about those two. A different matter if the discourse is different.