Cops aim to keep gangs apart
(CNS): Although the police commissioner will not be implementing a curfew in West Bay, he says the police are getting between the gangs in the district to prevent a further escalation of the gun violence witnessed over the previous five days. David Baines said that RCIPS officers on the ground are closing gang movement down in an effort to protect those they believe are targets, as well as to apprehend those they suspect might be responsible for the murders. He said both targets and suspects had disappeared from the usual haunts in the last few days as a result of the police presence and the realisation that they are at risk from opposing gang members, creating challenges for the police. (Photo Dennie Warren Jr)
Speaking to the press on Monday afternoon following a high level meeting with government officials chaired by the governor, Baines gave an outline of what the police were doing to stop the violence. He explained that he had considered the possibility of a curfew or specific cordons in the West Bay area but he had not yet identified the right location.
“We are trying to constrain the criminality but still allow normal society to continue,” he said as he explained that in order for curfews to support the action taken by the police they had to be in the right place, where the gang members were. He explained that because the police have gone out looking for the people associated and involved in the gangs in their traditional locations, they have disappeared.
“We could be activating a cordon or curfew in an area but the offenders aren’t there anymore,” he said, claiming there was clear indication that people had "got their heads down" and had moved away from their homes base, where they would expect to be by the opposing gang members. “I am unable to identify or request an area for specific cordon or curfew that could complement the police operation at this time,” Baines stated. “If that changes then I will ask the governor.”
He added that a curfew should not be imposed based on the number of killings but on knowledge of where the targets are and having an impact on the crime that is taking place. If he felt it would benefit the situation, the commissioner said he had the support of the governor and he would ask him. The governor, who called the briefing, also told the press that he would sign the necessary order at the commissioner’s request.
Updating the press on the situation in the West Bay district following the three fatal shootings, the commissioner said three arrests had been made in connection with the enquiries and forensic material had been gathered. He said two of the men remained in custody the other was released.
Baines also revealed that there were a considerable number of offenders involved in the crimes and that there were at least two gunmen with different weapons at each of the murders and in one there may have been a third. Furthermore, the police believe there were spotters involved in assisting the shooters. The commissioner said that there were at least three different types of weapon involved, including a shotgun, a revolver and a semi-automatic pistol.
He did not specify what had triggered the resurgence of the tit-for-tat gang violence but said it only needed “two or three toxic individuals who are able to take the traditional venom that exists between the gangs to push it over the level and we are now seeing this type of violence that’s escalated to a level we’ve never seen before. It is a challenge for us.”
He said the officers working in the West Bay district had a clear picture of who is involved and what they need to do to get in between and in “the face of” the gang members through various approaches. Police were looking at both those they thought were being targeted or at risk of getting shot and looking at those they think are responsible for the shootings and to stop them.
“Three deaths in five days is quite rightly alarming for anybody. Our issues is to make all of our efforts to put a block on and to stop further retaliation between each of those groups. In some respects that has worked because we got in the main area between the Logswood crew and the Birch Tree Hill gang,” Baines added. He explained, however, that as the police push down and increase their presence to prevent the continued conflict, the offenders are going further afield and “picking some of the more distant feuds to target individuals.”
Following the surge in rumours of further killings on Sunday, police have looked at all the names given to them of gang members, and while there were no more shootings, Baines said it indicated the level of concern and threat. “What is apparent is that some of those names that were circulated are active and are associated with gangs and people are putting two and two together,” the commissioner told the press. “Our challenge is to ensure that doesn’t become a reality, so we are engaging those people and using every aspect of the law to prevent them from being involved in further activity.”
Baines emphasised that his role now was to make sure there were enough investigative detectives working on the murder cases and at the same time deploying proactive officers to prevent a further escalation.
The commissioner also noted that he had started recruiting for fifty posts that he can now fill as a result of the reinstatement of the police budget, which was cut over the last two years. He said if there were suitable candidates on island, they could be recruited quickly, but he said it would take time to recruit from overseas. He said he was looking for 20 firearms officers, more surveillance experts and he was also keen to recruit a forensic manager to help ensure "evidential opportunities” were maximised, he added.
When it came to the request by the politicians for a SWAT (Special Weapons And Tactics) team, he said he understood the concept of a crack task force but explained there was no such thing as a single officer that kicked in doors, gathered forensic evidence and specialised in surveillance. There were a number of different skill sets required, he noted.
Baines explained that the RCIPS would be introducing a public order capability armed with larger batons and Tasers that would be able to close down areas where additional criminality was occurring and control the ground to stop criminals moving around, especially in areas where the community protects them and see the police as an intrusion rather a support.
Category: Crime
BULLSH*T is spewing from Baines mouth!!!!
Two years ago he said there was 15 persons who were committing these crimes and the RCIPS "KNEW" who these 15 persons were.
Then Baines when on to spew the BS to further add insult to injury by saying that most of these "15" have either been caught, left the jurisdication, or dead.
Since then we have experienced armed robbies in the broad day light: armed bank robberies in the broad day light; murders in the broad day light and NOT ONE freakin person has been convicted of any one of these crimes.
Now more bullsh*t is falling from Baines mouth………………
WHO the heck is he think he is taking to????????? The people in the African jungle???????
I have an over-sized heavy duty beach towel that I would like to give Baines so he can stuff-it!!
I would appear that Baines BEST expertise is "trying" to convince people what they are actually living in the midst of is not what they are actually experiencing!!!
Man just give-it-up and get the heck out of our country so we can hire someone who has the ability to tell the truth and do the job of a commissioner rather than some small-town english boy who is using Cayman to put another "notch" on your resume!!!!!!
OOPPPS, he did it again. I guess you couldn't keep them apart!!!!
Mr. David Baines appears to have aged ten years since he became commissioner.
I see on here everyone is calling for a curfew. If that is what people want- then be a parent and keep your kids inside while this is going on. Are you the parents in this situation or do you need Comm. Baines to tell you everything? If there is a violent situation going on in the streets…isn't it common sense that you would not let your children…especially your teens go outside and potentially get wrapped up in it ???????????
here you go officer here is your "Tick and Taser" go and capture that guy with the M16!
OMG BIGGER BATONS???? Is that gonna stop a bullet???? You have got to be kidding me. $4.5MM and all he is going to show for it is bigger batons and tasers. Does he not know you have to get up to the person to do this. I can see it now, criminals obtain batons and tasers from police while holding a gun to them….lmao
He better get his head out of the sand and WAKE UP!!!! This didn't happen over night and it isn't going to go away over night. Just because they have a few people in custody doesn't mean there will be charges laid on them, and unfortunately even when there are charges brought, usually they areacquitted. I am sure we will reach new numbers by the end of this month. It is very sad that Cayman has come to this, but I am also sorry to say this is the parent or parents fault on what is happening and it will continue. "Not my child, no not him!!! Come on, look at his attire? Does he have a job? But yet, he has jewelry, nice clothes and good chance a car. I can only blame the police for not being able to arrive on a location to be able to lock the location down and to find the indiviudal.
Something isn't adding up here, Big meeting Monday, the only thing that came out of that was Cayman is $4.5MM poorer. All the commissioner wants to do now is bigger batons and tasers and to hire more people. I thought last year we were up to strength, that was why we sent the English officers home. But come on, wake up, over 300 officers on an Island 27 x 8 (apx), with a population of 50,000-60,000? How many of them do you think are the criminals? 300 plus officers can't do the job, what is going to make the difference of 50 more useless officers collecting a nice salary?
I just read that the Cayman government or the US Consul based in Cayman states that we have a Jamaican gang problem! LOL!!!
Not sure where they aregetting their information but wonder if Jamaica knows that we are blaming them for our gang violence now?
" http://travel.state.gov/
SAFETY AND SECURITY: In recent year, the Cayman Islands have experienced an increase in criminal activity involving Jamaican gangs, including gang and drug-related shootings. One such shooting, in February 2010, resulted in the death of a 4 year old U.S.citizen. Local law enforcement authorities are aggressively addressing these challenges, which affect the West Bay area, in particular.
Stay up to date by bookmarking our Bureau of Consular Affairs website, which contains the current Travel Warnings and Travel Alerts as well as the Worldwide Caution. Follow us on Twitter and the Bureau of Consular Affairs page on Facebook as well. "
I wouldn't laugh. They are right. That whole GAZA thing comes from Jamaica.
This article is not entirely wrong, there is a gang problem and check out the back grounds of these young people I know of a fact that all except one have Jamaican backgrounds. I will not go as far as blaming Jamaicans for these crimes but check out the backgrounds of these gangsters. Do a background search find out who their fathers and grandmothers are most were imported criminals from Jamaica back in the late 70s and mid 80s when we had the influx of these types of people into Cayman and Caymanians were complaining that this type of behaviour would happen sooner or later… now the chickens have come home to roost.
Baines you need to admit that you have failed on this one, you did not move quick enough. I'm not even going to mention all the things that you could have done up until this point, you know what they are and you have failed Cayman, all the good hard working people of Cayman, the young with their lives to look forward to, those with not much to look forward to…everyone here has been failed, not just by you but you have played your part. We in Cayman, locals, expats, young, old, all deserve better. You can do better but chose not to.
Shame on you and Mr Bush for he too has shirked his responsibility to play the blame game.
Do what you can now and then do what is best, let someone else do what is needed, resign.
Should temporarily evacuate everyone from west bay except those who want to stay and let them go at it.
Commish, policing 101….don't bring a baton (or a tazer, for that matter) to a gun fight!
Don't know how true this is but the word on the street is that there are 7 more murders to come.
Please let this be a rumor.
And you really think that will work Baines? I highly doubt it. You might as well by two extra large baby play pens, one for each gang, have them in two seperate cells at all times,bathe them,feed them and wipe threir backsides for them too. That's the only way you're going keep them seperated. Besides, why should the rest of us law abiding citizens, have to suffer with a curfew? Those of us who are evening students,those who work late?
Further more, Larger Batons & Tasers???? Ok, maybe he knows what he talking about, but how is a larger baton & taser going to help? The batons are probably going to be heavier and harder to use,slowing our officers down. The tasers? How much bigger are we talking here? Are there machine gun size taser guns with the electricals nodes that can reach more than a hundred feet or something? That's still putting our officers in danger because they are using close combat weapons. They will still have to get close enough to the suspect especially the baton to make dissabling the suspect effective. You're sending them to a gun fight with close combat items. The bullets aren't attached to the gun, so they can be far away and get the upper hand.
Give the officers the guns with the rubber bullets and bean bags,that way they won't have to be directly in harms' way and can still do their job and have some sort of protection on the same level as the suspect.Give them a real fighting chance,even if you don't want them having guns with real bullets.
"When it came to the request by the politicians for a SWAT (Special Weapons And Tactics) team, he said he understood the concept of a crack task force but explained there was no such thing as a single officer that kicked in doors, gathered forensic evidence and specialised in surveillance. There were a number of different skill sets required, he noted"
This comment clearly shows that Baines does not understand policing. SWAT is Special Weapons and Tactics. The "not to be messed with" elite team using advanced sweep and clear tactics, body armour and heavier weapons. SWAT is not resposible for gathering evidence or surveillance. SWAT does kick in doors, clear the scene and capture/eliminate the perps. Time for new leadership within the RCIPS.
Ok, so we can't arrest them because they are posing a threat to the entire population? Come one now, when you are starting to play the bad cop instead of Mrs goody two shoe all the time! Rough them up, poke them, harrass them. Are you afraid they are going to file a law suit against you?
If you are in over your head Mr. Baines, please move out of the way because the entire country is suffering.
Why are the whole bunch of you uneducated mormons think this is a WEST BAY PROBLEM?
There are gangs all over the islands they seems to be getting organized everyday too. I see they took out one in George Town last night and has another hanging on for dear life and I don't believe they are West Bayers.
Gangs are known to claim territories where ever they live, they operate like the MAFIA and any other organized power hunger group that wants to take control of what is not theirs or flex their muscle.
Please CAYMAN let's force the Governor to have BAINES RESIGN and bring back Derek Haines even if it is in the interim. Let's sort the mess out that has been caused by laid back policing and the judicial system that has been easy in the sentencing these criminals.
Batons and tasers? What they need is a B52 bomber and two of those daisy cutters- one for West Bay and one for Crewe Road. Then we just bulldozw Mt Trashmore into the craters and Cayman's problems are all solved.
The parents of these kids are UDP voters. We need the four MLAs to leave their offices and get out into the yards and talk to the parents and families. They do it at election time, why not now? The RCIP can give them the address list.
Seriously considering changing our plans to come to Pirates Week this year. Such a shame to see a beautiful place with such wonderful people be destoryed by a few. I would hate to be looking over my shoulder my entire vacation wondering if I am going to be shot at , robbed or maybe even killed by a random bullet. Better catch it now before it is to late Cayman.
Ok, now that we have accepted the fact that we have gangs, and we are not going to do anything about it other then keeping them apart, this is what is going to happen.
The gangs will establish themselves more and more in OUR day to day life.
They will control neighborhoods and demand "protection" money from people and businesses.
The police (unarmed) will avoid these areas, because it is gang property.
The people that can will leave, the people that can't will be terrorized.
A new generation of children will grow up, thinking gangs are part of life.
They will join, because there is respect and money to be made.
Schools will be infiltrated and drug use will increase.
Foreign gangs will merge and take a piece of the cake.
Tourists will avoid cayman as if it were the plague, investors will leave.
What is left is a completely deteriorated island, controlled by criminals.
I give it another 5 years or so.
This is all a result of politicians with the wrong priorities and a population of ignorant churchgoers that actually believe that praying helps. Criminals think different and take advantage of this.
"larger batons and Tasers"??????????????????????
smh
Baines, Baines, Baines… are you and idot? We dont want you tpo PROTECT these criminals from the others. We want you to CAPTURE them and LOCK THEM UP if you know who the "TARGETED" one are as you stated.
We are TIRED of this IDOCY and WASTE of TAX-PAYERS DOLLARS!!!
Pardon me on the type'Os.
seriously?! bigger batons and tasers?! ya that'll definetly scare the gangs with ak47s. think about it baines. would you want to be the one with the 'baton' or the guns?
07:54 you are correct BIGGER BATTONS, the commissioner says. Lol. What is he thinking of giveing the police a cut of piece of two by four. Is that the bigger batton he is talking about.
Commissioner Banes, please hush your mouth, please, because the statement you made is utter foolishness.
Its unfortunate that people are just pointing fingers at the police, its also unfortunate that the police are limited when it comes to police armor, and the laws with which they have to uphold. Amend the laws to take into account violence such as the recent spew of killings. I can bet my bottom dollar darling that in WEST BAY there are people, family members that know who these persons are. It takes someone's judgement to be so clouded to go out and do these killings, these YOUNG men are angry! and anger towards them will only ignite more fury. You want information from them and yes even criminals deserve protection whether we like it or not. And no I'm not a family member of any of the men. And while they shouldnt be served a silver platter during the investigation process it is recognized and only common sense that information is key in trying to ascertain who's finger pulled the trigger and bring them out to face punishment so the justice can be served for the senseless slayings of very young men. Young men who happen to be some grief stricken womans or fathers son, brother, father, grandson, cousin, nephew. My heart goes out to the families who are themselves victims aswell in this whole ordeal. No one institution or body can be blamed for the senseless acts of wayward young men….it takes a village (a whole village) to raise a child, home, school, church and government, I would then conclude my fellow Caymanian that we have ALL collectively failed our youth of these Cayman Islands!!! Will we stop pointing fingers (like our precent government points finger at one or the other) or will we unite and make a difference!! We can CHOOSE.
Ultimate responsibility for this situation lies with our legislators.
They are the one’s that have systematically ignored the rise of gang culture in our public schools whilst also reducing the Police FORCE budget, leaving it critically weak for a number of years.
It’s also clearly nonsense for the public to expect an instant improvement just because more money has finally been provided.
It will take years to rebuild their former capability but at least now they can start.
Keepup the good work Commissioner!
McKeeva and Alden, cut the crap and start leading!
NO the ultimate responsability lies with the parents friends and family , the young men involved in these incidents were not born gang members their upbringing led them to it and legislators had no say in that.
Stop putting your heads in the sand and putting the blame on everyone else, Do you know what your son is up to????? And if you know what are you willing to do about it???? Protect him????
You know who you are people, I am not saying it is easy but wouldnt you prefer to be judged by 12 rather than being transported by 6??? Think about it its in your hands it is your responsabilty 1st and foremost!
WAKEY, WAKER BAINES.
Wake up, stop this NOW. The ONLY man that can help you out of this S!@#.
DEREK HAINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Larger battons and tazers????? Are you serious? I have to wonder how long you have been sitting behing a desk.
The police were told that we had gangs long ago by "the street" yet police replied that it was just kids being kids.
What will sort this out is another day of prayer and a few million to certain churches.
Lox you still dipping into church business. Go home and watch you family instead of talking foolishness. Cant you see the Island is in a state of Emmergency, and you talking shit about church money. Come off it now.
Let's watch our language, now. There could be children reading, and the example being set them is already bad enough.
It might just be that part of this "state of emergency" is due to our so called premier giving our money to YOUR churches.
You are right "church business" because that is waht the churchs are…businesses, who are being paid for nothing with our money!
Brace yourselves for Wednesday night, Police get some guns. These rebels are not easing up. Just look at the pattern. Police should be armed in Northside, East End, Breakers, Savannah, Bodden Town, George Town, Sung Harbour, Prospect, South Sound and my beautiful district, West Bay. Next month you need to go to the Brac. These home grown criminals ARE not easing up. Do not forget, they are ARMED and the force is HARMLESS.
Are they going to be another murder on Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday September, 25th? Maybe the police should get loaded and be prepared. Remember, prevention is better than cure.
This Poster got it right!!Time to call in Reneto Adams from Jamaica
Batons and Tasers???
Baines: “I understand there’s going to be a gunfight, so I’ve give officers bits of wood so as to ensure that they win the fight.” Not even a knife to bring to the gunfight.
In the US and Canada the regular street patrol carries Tasers, pepper spray and 40 cal Glocks on their person permanently all while wearing bulletproof vests, and they have shotguns and automatic rifles in the cars in case they get called to a gun incident. Bains wants Tasers and bits of wood? What a misfire. Call out the armed forces guys.
there should be road blocks in and out west bay 24hrs a day……and search all cars with illegal tinting……
as a community, cayman needs to eradicate the gangster culture/look…… all bars/clubs should have a dress code which ban the gangster look……
Not only West Bay – island-wide!!
Finally it is official: Gangs are are accepted part in this society.
We are not arresting them, but we are keeping them apart.
I am out of here . . . .
Keeping the gangs apart ?????
Wouldn't it be better to end the gangs by picking them off the street. ??
The detoriation of the cayman islands is goingfast . . . .
Maybe more money at churches ???
well, that didn't work… two shootings in George Town tonight… Crewe Road, no less.
If it wasn't so serious it would be funny. Police given $4MM dollars to assist in fighting crime…within 72 hours another shooting!!! I guess that didn't work, now did it???
I just heard that another young man was gunned down off Crewe Rd. Is that so Mr. Commissioner?
WooHoo larger batons and tazers, those will work great against guns; just like they worked against guns during the UK riots. Oh wait….police officers were shot during the riots. Great thinking, lets try something here that WE KNOW does not work.
More briliance from the commissioner. I really feel for the hard working officers on the street that have to follow orders from this joker.
Oh, and what caused the UK riots? An armed man got shot by armed police. And you are all now calling for the police to be armed! I agree the police should have specially trained armed response units in every district, but please don't arm them all – unlike the UK, our police only have a few weeks of basic training before hitting the streets – most are nowhere near ready to carry arms. And if only the police in the UK had as many police per capita as we enjoy here in Cayman, but alas, they have way less police per person and way, way bigger areas and far more serious gangland and other crimes to police.
Why we no dig canal across West Bay road and seal whole damm thing off
Wait for UDP meeting in WB before we do and solve a whole heap o dem problems all in go
I'm sorry but this is quite disappointing. Batons and tasers? to a gun (shotgun, a revolver and a semi-automatic pistol) fight? I'm I missing something here?
Oh my. While it appears RCIPS top brass may have gotten it finally, I can’t help but laugh at the British mentality of proving officers with. “larger baton”. Perhaps he should finally seek US or Canadian help from real police officers who can train Caymanians and get the motherly attitude away from the UK.
Regardless of his approval rate at the moment, Baines is the individual in charge and should be supported and encouraged.
The situation is not an easy one to tackle and he is certainly earning his keep as of late.
I wish you luck Commissioner.
* I am in agreement with the Governor, CoP and the Premier when they say "NO" to a curfew or declaration of a "state of emergency".
We need to see the bigger picture here folks.
Taking such action could quite possibly result in a fatal blow to our economy, reputation and position as a prime tourist destination.
E.g. 1.) Such a declaration will forever stain us as online search results of "Cayman, vacation , crime, tourism" will stamp us an undesirable destination.
E.g. 2.) Our competitors would make a point to magnify our negative headlines for their own benefit and as we know, for the average individual, the headline is the full story.
I for one refuse to allow some young and idiotic "hot-skull" fools in West Bay tear down in one weekend what we have been building for the past 40 years.
Although the last few days were quite unfortunate, Cayman is still a beautiful, peaceful, clean and enjoyable destination for the vast majority of our visitors as well as residents.
* All those that disagree are free to vote with their feet.
** Judging by the other hot topic of the day – the rollover policy – it is quite clear that the majority of our residents are in no rush to run away therefore must feel relatively safe and comfortable in our environment.
Economy vs human life? Hmm…You're not going to have an economy if they don't stop killing people.
Did the UK government introduce a nationwide curfew in August when looting, rioting, burningand widespread chaos was affecting all areas of their nation?
Does Glasgow still have an economy?
Does London still have an economy?
Does Liverpool still have an economy?
Does Los Angeles still have an economy?
Does Rio De Janeiro still have an economy?
Does New York still have an economy?
Does Mumbai still have an economy?
Violent crime exists and is on the rise in every part of the world my friend.
Do we have a serious issue in the Cayman Islands – of course.
Do we need to try a different approach in regards to policing our community? Yes.
However, feel good / talking point calls for outlandish reactions will only serve to compound our current situation rather than resolve it.
Our unique set of circumstances MUST be taken into consideration therefore a "copy & paste" attempt of a solution may not be suited to our particular situation.
The difference is that most of the places you listed have an economy that is not dependent on tourism or expatriates.
No the UK did not introduce a curfew in August, they didn't have to, they got the Riot Police in and pushed the wasters out. They got the situation under control, quickly. There was talk of a curfew and one would have been put in place had the situation not died down. I'm sure that most of the citizens of Cayman would welcome a curfew if it meant catching those involved, an Island wide curfew if need be.
“All those that disagree are free to vote with their feet.” That would due why Cayman’s population dropped 20% during the recession, including me. 1 in 5 people packed up and left. That’s quite a vote.
“it is quite clear that the majority of our residents are in no rush to run away.” I don’t think that is quite true, what with the mass exodus.
Nonsense!!! While crime would have been taken into consideration the major cause of the departures was the lack of jobs.
“Although the last few days were quite unfortunate, Cayman is still a beautiful, peaceful, clean and enjoyable destination for the vast majority of our visitors as well as residents.”
Beautiful and clean, yes, but peaceful and enjoyable it is NOT! Let’s get real people! Wake up!
Oh, LARGER batons and tasers? Wow…those will surely stop a guy with an AK47 in his tracks.
How bout' we get some tanks and start rollin towards W'Bay.
Wow, genius. that's how we solve the problem of gangs, keep them apart? That is the best idea he has come up with? Seriously? We are in serious trouble if that is he best solution.
How about arresting them for gang membership while you are at it, or is that legal now?
But then it will be harder for them to shoot each other! So short sighted!
no curfew says the BIG bosses ok lets have our cake and eat it at the same time cant believe in this crisis the premier say he dont support curfew ok ok you are the DON of [ TIVOLI] west bay
Larger batons and dem boys gah ak47s for petes sake baines get real.
Hard to believe that there are areas that see the police as an intrusion rather than support. They should be bulldozed over for parking or better yet re-plant some Mahogany Trees,
Bains has no clue what hes doing.
They all from West Bay!! Impose a curfew/cordon on the whole district!
We need to bring in the same American team that cleared up the situation in England. Please please lets get going, two heads are better than one.
That is not true. The UK’s PM only publicly considered hiring one American senior officer to assist. It didn’t actually happen.
I think you meant to say "Two heads are better than none"..?
yeah and keep dat big mac down there too pls.all gang bangers