Gambling fails to win support

| 30/07/2010

Cayman Islands News, Grand Cayman Island headline news, Cayman gambling(CNS): Updated —  There was very little full support on show for the introduction of legalised gambling in Cayman at the country’s first organised open door public debate on the subject on Thursday. Hosted by Generation NOW at UCCI, the forum revealed that supporters of gaming still have some way to go before their case is defined and before the nation is convinced. Of the seven panel members only Gilbert McLean was prepared to fully support legal gambling for both a lottery and casinos, with Dr Frank McField backing the Bahamas’ model of casinos exclusively for tourists. Pastor William Peguero fell short of endorsing gambling but indicated some acceptance of the exclusive casino. (Photos Dennie Warren Jr)

As a member of the clergy, Peguero (above), who is also chair of the National Investment Council, which as a body supports the introduction of exclusive casinos for visitors, said that he personally does not support the principle of gambling but the tourist casino was one of 14 options that the council as a whole presented to the CI government as an alternative to direct taxation and it was only under those circumstance that he would tolerate the idea.
 
The other panel members included Billy Adam and Rev Nicholas Sykes, who both argued emphatically against any form of gambling including the exclusive model, and Annie Moulton, who was also opposed its legalisation. Carolina Ferrari, who was the only panel member who said she was undecided, raised many questions during the debate, which served to illustrate that Cayman is only at the very beginning of the dicussion and has a long way to go before the voting public would be in a position to make an informed choice in a simple yes-no referendum.
 
The audience also seemed less than enthusiastic about the introduction of gambling, and although some had indicated support at the start of the more than three hour forum, there were still many questions raised by attendees that indicated many people have mixed feelings on the subject and are a long way from enthusiastic about the introduction of gaming in Cayman.
 
Following the premier’s recent comments that he would be allowing a referendum before the end of this year, it is still not clear whether that would be for just a national lottery, for exclusive tourist casinos or for all forms of gambling.
 
Former Cabinet minister and current radio talk-show host Gilbert McLean has been a long time advocate of legalized gambling and has made it clear he wants to see the country introduce a national lottery. He said many people were already playing the local illegal numbers game on a regular basis and as a result a number of individuals had become extremely wealthy but government was unable to tax them or take any fees.
 
He suggested that more than $52million a year was being generated in profits and he said the whole country should benefit and not just a few who used the money to buy favours. McLean said government revenue from the lottery should be ring-fenced for education and medical services and not taken into the general coffers and become subject to political whim.
 
However, in direct contrast Billy Adam revealed that Gtech Corporation, a global lottery provider which completed a study of the potential lottery market in the Cayman Islands only this month, as part of its proposal to run the lottery here, had found the market was estimated to be between US$ 9-11 million. This Gtech said in its proposal (see more on CNS on Monday) would convert into just over $1million for government coffers or less than a ¼ percent of the country’s budget.
 
The point that government needed money was a major factor driving support from playwright and sociologist Dr Frank McField, also a former Cabinet minister, who favoured the Bahamas model of gambling where the casinos are the exclusive domain of tourists and locals are banned from going in. McField admitted that he did not believe the Caymanian people should be exposed to the negative social consequences of gambling so was only prepared to sanction it for visitors.
 
However, it was noted by Carolina Ferreira as well as a number of those in the audience that such a division in Cayman would be difficult to maintain given the significant number of foreigners and Caymanians with foreign passports.  Moreover, the issue of locals not being allowed to gamble in the Bahamas is now coming into question in that jurisdiction on the grounds of equality.
 
Rev Sykes also said he believed it would be difficult to enforce such a divide in the Cayman community with one rule for tourists and one rule for residents. He also said there was something particularly unpalatable about governments balancing the public purse on the losses of the public through games of chance, as had been observed by the Bermudan parliament recently, when it rejected any move towards legalized gambling.
 
The panel discussed a number of issues from the logistics of implementation, the type of gambling that is or is not acceptable, the possible social ramifications, the exploitation of workers and the nature of the industry, the community’s hypocrisy in their opposition to casinos but seeming acceptance of other societal ills and how any money to government would be used to benefit the wider community.
 
The panel were all agreed on only one thing and that was that that if government was to hold a referendum, then legally that could only be among registered voters and there was no way in law to encompass anyone outside the electoral list.
 
What was apparent from the first public debate on the subject was that there are a wide range of views in the community on gambling but there is little evidence of a major groundswell of supporters for the complete legalization of all forms of gaming. Although there were a number of people who had vindicated some support in the audience only one or two members of the public spoke in favour of full legalized access to gambling.
 
A spokesperson for Generation NOW, the organisers of the panel discussion noted that it was apparent that the community needed a lot more information on the subject and its possible ramifications. That sentiment was shared by a number of audience members who told CNS that before the country could be realistically expected to vote on the subject they need to know what they would be voting for and what the advantages and disadvantages of legal gambling in Cayman in any form would be.
 
Cayman Islands News, Grand Cayman Island headline news, Cayman gambling
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  1. lower Valley Resident says:

    I wish my fellow Caymanian would take heed of our actual recorded history.  The original settlers of the Cayman Islands where not strong believers of Christianity.  However, I will acknowledge Christianity and other religions have played a fundamental role within the social realm of society; however, Christianity cannot be linked to the economic development of our beloved Islands.  Therefore, we need to stop singing that ol’ played out song.  Religion has suppressed people’s freedom of expression for to long in country.  Take for example the incident Golden Compass. 

    Wake up people, the Cayman Islands has never been or will ever be a Religious Island Nation.

     

    • Some actual recorded history says:

      Dear Lower Valley Resident,

      Just a few facts from the “actual recorded history” of Cayman  as observed by official visitors to our shores:
      1773 – George Gauld, Royal Navy hydrographer, arrives to make a map of Grand Cayman and finds that the “Caymanians had wished for the services of a ‘clergyman’.” Please see page 112 of “Founded upon the Seas”.
      1802 – Edward Corbet’s report to His Excellency, Major General Nugent of Jamaica explains “ At Bodden Town there is a small place of worship and in which they have divine service. The person who officiates is not an ordained Clergyman, but a respectable inhabitant. When they wish to enter into engagement of marriage they repair to some port in this Island chiefly I understand to Montego Bay.” See page 7 of “Our Islands Past” Volume I
      While every country has its share of people who break the laws of church and state, I feel Cayman has a strong religious history. The two quotes above show just how far back we have documentation of this fact.
      Christianity CAN be linked to the economic development of our island
      If you think our country has not been shaped positively and constructively by intelligent, strong willed and devout members of the church, perhaps you should do some research on people like:
      Sir Vassel Johnson, KT, CBE – former financial secretary and considered by many as the founding father of our financial industry. AND …drum roll please …. A Presbyterian!!
      Dr. Roy McTaggart – Dentist, business man and owner of the ship CIMBOCO, a politician who was adamant we should not follow Jamaica in seeking independence . Another Presbyterian!
      Miss Annie Hulda Bodden, OBE  – first female to serve as secretary of CIMBOCO, as the Government Auditor, attorney and elected Member of the LA. Guess? Yup yet another Presbyterian!
      Golden Compass VS the Chronicles of Narnia
      If you like “Golden Compass” then you should LOVE the “Chronicles of Narnia” written by C.S. Lewis who at the end of his life was an orthodox Anglican.
      Perhaps it is YOU how should WAKE UP and appreciate Cayman as a Religious Island Nation as we were and  many of us still feel we are. God does not deprive humans their freedom of speech, people do. So, stop making mischief, we already know idle hands are the Devils workshop! 
      I’ll pray that God find a way into that cold heart of yours! Have a blessed day! J
  2. Caymanians for Good says:

    G-Tech’s numbers will always be low – they hope to get the franchise. They are not absolutely too unrealistic however based on what they are thinking of.

    Anyway, most people are thinking about only one type of lottery. If we open the Cayman Lottery up online and worldwide, the numbers will get staggering. See Spain’s “El Gordo” lottery for the true potential of a Cayman lottery….we need to be open to really making some money here and not limit to the local residents only.

    http://www.elgordo.com/games/elgordo/indexen.asp

    I estimate that the annual take for an online, worldwide Cayman lottery to be in the range of US$1 – $1.2B per annum in the first few years, increasing after that to the US$2B mark. Government can pull US$100-150M annually off that one. Of course winnings are tax free and already in a Cayman bank account! Not hard to market that one.

    Add to that a second daily, two digit game (00 to 99) only played here and we will get somewhere with this discussion.

    Come on… lets get thinking here and make some real money.

  3. Lottery Not Worth It says:

    "Billy Adam revealed that Gtech Corporation, a global lottery provider which completed a study of the potential lottery market in the Cayman Islands only this month, as part of its proposal to run the lottery here, had found the market was estimated to be between US$ 9-11 million. This Gtech said in its proposal (see more on CNS on Monday) would convert into just over $1million for government coffers or less than a ¼ percent of the country’s budget."

    The entire reason why we are having this debate on gambling comes down to raising money for government coffers. Based on the Gtech study it appears that lottery is not a cost effective choice for Cayman. The $1 million grossed by government would be quickly spent in regulating this activity.

    There are many other ways government can raise $1 million without having to introduce lottery. Reduce travel expenses, cut fleet vehicles, collect outstanding fees owed, etc.

    In addition to prosecuting gambling under the gambling law the legal department can also use the Proceeds of Crime Law to freeze bank accounts and seize assets which may also net more than $1 million.

    The government must enforce its laws unless constantly seeking new revenue, especially by legalising a known addictive vice, is an exercise in futility.

    • Anonymous says:

      Here we go again, spending thousands of dollars to bring strangers into our country to tell us what to do ( to tell us what the ones that bring them in want them to say). If gambling is so very insignificant in Cayman then why in the world does the government simply not legalize it and save themselves the cost of policing it. I am very certain that this cost and effort can be very much better spent on controlling completely out of control weapon and burglary crimes in our country. Alcohol consumption is at the very least as ‘addictive’ and ‘destructive’ (so is FOOD when it is taken to the extreme) as gambling but it is OK to continue to make this available in our country because government makes enough money from this to make it worthwhile???      

  4. Anonymous says:

    the discussion about gambling is a joke! i am playing poker at 5 tables (on my computer) right now  🙂 and i will play a live game (that’s with real people) later today, not mentioning the numbers, raffles and other games that go on every day of the week….all that happens without the government getting a penny!!!

    separate church and state, don’t let a bunch of religious hypocrites run cayman by a book that was written a long time ago.

    have casinos and lotteries for all of us to enjoy in cayman!!!!

    • Anonymous says:

      All those who support gambling reread the previous submission about one person’s gambling habits.

      Get prepared for generations of future gamblers, when gambling is legalized the government is supporting the behavior.

      As for regulation of gambling, what makes anyone believe the government has the ability to regulate gambling? The government is completely unable to deal with the illegal numbers games currently so my confidence in governmental regulation is nonexistant.

      • Anonymous says:

        my post was not about MY gambling, it was to show that there is gambling every day of the week in cayman and the government is not getting a penny out of it!!!

    • Historically a useless thing! says:

      While you may not believe in that book written a long time ago, many others do.  That book was very much appreciated by the founders of this country.  Tourism was built and propsered when these three islands were considered a quite, peaceful, law abiding, religious community and you should remember that. 

      What we have allowed to happen to our country today is running our long term visitors away because it has become a mini US city.  Cayman is losing his charm, and its unique character.  What is wrong with being unique, special, different and a cut above the rest? 

      Gambeling can become highly addictive for many people and at the end of the day provides noting good to anyone other than the casino owner.  When did our own Caymanian people become so hell bend to prospering off the down fall of others.

      XXXXX

      • Fictional Sky Fairy Be Praised says:

        What version of the Bible do you use?  The New International Barely Literate?

  5. Hinduist, Voodist, Satanist says:

    Christians can use their book to guide them in their lives.  Their choice.  What I don’t get is why they want to legislate for what I do, when I am not a Christian and don’t share their views.  Is free will not part of their faith?  Then why can they not choose to follow their pastoral guidance and why do they need to enforce it through laws?

    • Lachlan MacTavish says:

       Good point…..why should pastors and church leaders have such an influence on what may or may not be good for the country. Their strict adherence to "inside the box" may not be what the people need.

    • Free will does not equl stupidity says:

      Yes, there is such a thing as free will, however it does not mean you go out of your way to tempt people into doing something that does nothing to improve them as individuals.

      With the amount of impressionable young people we have on this island who are often left to raise themselves, what good will come of such a wasteful and useless behavior?  Just more expense, addictive behavarior, less time for family and friends, and the illusion that it will make us all millionaires, so a few greedy people can prosper!

  6. Grandma's Wisdom says:

    Grandma says you can’t serve both God and McMammon, so when Peguero puts on his green striped tie he is bound to vote by "collective responsibility". lol.

  7. Know When To Hold 'Em says:

    My number came up so I am smiling.

    • Anonymous says:

      Pity you didn’t state your name so we could put you in jail and spend $55,000.00 a year to feed you. Now THAT is what I call gambling paying off and benefiting the whole community! Congratulations on your win, my friend.

    • Lachlan MacTavish says:

       Good point….gambling in Cayman now. Let’s at least have control and licensing.

  8. Twyla Mae Vargas says:

    GAMBLIN AN BETTING

    My information followng is beng taken from A practical Dictionary of the Bible.

    AS CHRISTIANS AND NON-CHRISTIANS, WHAT SHOULD WE BELIEVE.

    !)  GAMBLING IS AN AGREEENT: between te participants of a game of chance to pay the wnner a prize or ceran sum of money.

    2) BETTIN S AN AGREEMENT: between the bettors, to reward the one who correctly guesses an answer or the outcome of a past or future event.

    GAMBLING IS NOT A SIN IN ITSELF, and is licit under e following conditons.

    a)  The stakes in the Gambling must belong to the gambler, and must be his to dispose of. 

    b)   he game must be honest. It would be sinul to use a loaded dice or stacked cards.

    c)   All particpants in te gamemus have an equalchance of wining, and know exactly what the odds are.  It woul be sinful for an expert toplay poker with one who is learing the game, unless the learner was aware of the inequity of the odds, and nevertheless willing to play.

    BETTINGIS NOT A SIN IN IT SELF: an is licit uner the following conditions.   a)   The bet must not induce one to sin

    b)   Those betting must not know in advance, the outcome of the bet.

    c)   It is sinful to bet where theres no possibility of loosing.

    As Christians, or non Christians can we honestly say that we are not closing one eye and peeking out of the other, with hope to not wanting to see and accept the truth that Alcoholism is our worst enemy inthe Cayman Islands., and that for years has destroyed and separated families,contributed to the lost of homes, caused the death of so many young people, and has allowed our children to suffer?  Is that a blessing or a curse?

    Is turning a blind eye to the 4th Comandment, a sin or a curse?

    Is allowing alcohol /music and dancing  to be dispensed on the Sabbath, a blessing or a curse.

    Is allowing the supermarkets to open on the Sabbath and Sundays a bless ing or a curse?

    Is selling raffel tickets to win car and boats at shows e.g. little League, Kiwanis, or other event, a blessing or  curse?

    Is selling Church raffel tickets a blessing or a curse?

    Is selling raffel tickets at the Agriculture shows a blessing or a curse.

    Part proceeds of lottey winnings, used to tithes and offerings.  Is that a blessng or a curse to th church.

    As a community can we honestly say we are equally tackling the sale of alcohol on Sabbath and Sundays.

    Do we realize that thousands of dollars are generated through the numbers game, and 75% is sent overseas.

    Will we honestly accept that 75% of us are preaching hippocites, who want to have it our way, and not Gods way?

    It is high time that church members call a Spade a Spade, and Sin Sin.  Saturday is the Sabbath day, ordained by God and set down in his Laws a he 4th Comandment.  Yet we will stand before man and God condeming the sale of Lottery tickets, that nothing is said about in the bible.  Oh ye of little faith.

    It is also wrong for us to condem Pasor Pueguero on his stand in this disusion, because that is his duty to God and man because of the decision he has taken to follow. 

    Wha ever anyone may want  to say about Pastor Pueguero, I can safely say his teachings are sincere to his conregation,  He is highly intelligent, much more than majority of the peaching pastors on this Island.  We may not agree on all things, which is human, but as an intelligent and dedicated pastor, whom I am well familiar with,  that will definately call a spade a spade,  I stand behind him.

    We need to stop being bench warming church hippoctites and accept all truth and fact about what God really wants. If he wanted to give us One hundred commandments he would have.  He gave us Ten.  Stop adding your commandments to them.  As far as I am concerned they are our Laws.

    • Anonymous says:

      "Do we realize that thousands of dollars are generated through the numbers game, and 75% is sent overseas".

      That may be so but legalizing casinos (especially where locals are not allowed) or a national lottery will not change that. Don’t you understand that the odds are always in favour of the House at a casino and so it fails one of your conditions not to be a sin?

      Re Pastor Peguero, don’t you realize that he disagrees with you and thinks gambling is a bad thing but has compromised in order to be Chairman of the Investment Council? At least you made an attempt to reconcile your position with Christian principles.

      The 10 commandments obviously do not include many serious sins. There is nothing in the 10 commandments about rape, incest or taking drugs for example. 

        

  9. Anonymous says:

    I fully agree with all of the comments suggesting that gambling or no gambling in the Cayman islands should be a decision made ONLY by allowing EVERY well informed citizen of this country to VOTE on the matter. We don’t need special committees obviously designed to negatively sway public opinion on the matter. ALL we need is for the CAYMANIAN PEOPLE to decide FOR THEMSELVES  whether or not they want this. It is indeed an unholy disgrace that the churches would even come close to entertainingthe idea that it is not OK for locals to gamble but it is OK for the country to make money from tourists gambling in our country! Very obviously the churches would prefer people to put their money in the offering plate on Sunday morning and they are willingly and unreasonably stigmatizing gambling to that end. GET OVER IT people, gambling is ALREADY an integral and irrevocable part of our society that many of our Godly pastors ALREADY gladly participate in. Does any one really stop to consider how many countless numbers of people have been helped by existing means of gambling such as the Lions annual raffle? Has anyone at all considered that the numbers game WILL FOREVER exist in Cayman and that legalizing it will not change anything one iota except that it will allow Government to collect a tax on it to BENEFIT ALL the people of these islands? I heard an obviously very dedicated christian gentleman on rooster recently going on and on forever about the ‘evils’ of gambling and quoting bible scriptures such as "prove me now herewith, saith the lord of hosts, if I will not open up the windows of heaven….yet this man ended up stating that he was ‘pulling bush’ in Cayman Brac! What people like this man and our beloved pastors need to do is PROVE THE LORD HEREWITH and BE AN EXAMPLE of God’s goodness as an alternative to gambling in our country if this is what they want. DEMONSTRATE God’s goodness as a preferable and ever available option to every citizen of this country, those of you who are preaching, and you will never have to worry about anyone sinning their souls to hell by gambling ever again. PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH my friends. That’ll fix the problem for sure.                

  10. Dexter Rivers says:

    Pastor Pequero fell short of endorsing gambling but can accept an  exclusive style casino operation. 

    Wow. Is he really a pastor.

  11. A Guy says:

    Isn’t going to church in itself a bit of a gamble?

    I mean, praying to someone or something that may or may not exist, giving your hard earned cash to an organization that claims your kindness will earn you a place, in a place that may or may not exist.

    Don’t go myself, not a gambling man.

    • Anonymous says:

      Indeed my friend. So is getting out of bed to drive to work in the morning to earn a days pay. Do we really know that we are going to arrive there and make it back home alive? No. We are gambling on that. Would it not be better to just trust in the Lord to bring our day’s pay to our doorstep instead? By the way, we gamble every time we eat a mouthful of food. Do we really know that we are not being poisoned by doing so? I guess gambling is not so bad after all…or maybe we are just hopeless sinners…

    • Anonymous says:

      Don’t compromise no matter what, god is able.

  12. Anonymous says:

    The Christian view held by some that gambling should be allowed for visitors but not for the local population fits in well with the type of Christianity held by some in the Cayman Islands.

    Legalized vice in the form of gambling for the foreign visitor is ok to provide money for Cayman but not ok for the Cayman citizens.

    What kind of logic is that?

    What a sad commentary that is for the holders of such logic, obviously they are not their brother’s keeper.

    • A Theist says:

      The Christian views seems to be that their flock are too weak to follow their Pastor’s views.  And I thought free will was central to Christianity.

  13. anonymous says:

    What has happened to the innovative minds of the Caymanian people? We are suppose to be smarter and wiser in this day and age, to think and create ways and means of building a sustainable Cayman. Are we going to sit around and fall for everything the rich man brings our way.  Can’t you see they are out to destroy the fabric of these Islands and what has made us successful in the past.  We had real leadership in our Assemblies, Churches and with our Statesmen.  We never resorted to gambling of any kind before just to obtain revenue.  We were very decisive people and we were also God faring Christian people, but today the Devil comes in all forms, as long as the $$$$$$ are flashing and we are falling for it.  BEWARE Cayman of any decisions you may make in the form of Gambling, you may just be calling destruction upon us.  May God Bless the decision makers and may God Bless these Cayman islands.

  14. Anonymous says:

    I would like Pastor Peguero to give us a Yes or No answer on this one.

    • Anonymous says:

      I heard him answer this question that night and I understood him to say that his personal position was NO, he did not support any form of gambling!

      He is the President of the Investment Council (Mr. Michael Ryan, Mr. James O’Neil,  Mr. Woody Foster and others are members).  He said that the majority of the organization voted against lottery gambling but for casino gambling, but that he personally was not supporting any gambling in the Cayman Islands. 

      • Anon says:

        If that was his view why did he remain on the committee at all let alone be its Chairman? If I was a part of any group, let alone the chairman, and that group was endorsing an acitvity that I found to be morally repugnant then I would step down. Is it that the prestige of the appointment outweighed any moral objections?  

  15. Man says:

    Ahhh Peguero, I cannot for the life of me understand when you became an authority on business. This was a great attempt by the supporters of gaming to get a Pastor to split the Church members vote during a referendum and you were positioned perfectly with your hands out. You can jump up and down praising God for a Premier saying he will shut down Pirates Week but here you are saying it’s ok to be half pregnant. Shame on you. The Ministers Association needs to distance itself from you, or maybe they have their hands out too and you are merely their messenger. I believe in God and thank my Mother for ensuring I was educated, God help those that have to find spirituality through some of the peoplebehind the pulpits today.

  16. anonymous says:

    If gambling is evil, will I get my money back from that pastor who sold me that raffel ticket. Will he go to hell?  Please let me know where in the bible it says that gambling is evil?

    If the problem is, as people kept mentioning last night, that we think it will result in a huge addiction in the country, then will we also ban alcohol and cigarettes, which I know many people are addicted to? 

    Some people are also addicted to food, perhaps we can make food illegal as well? That jerk chicken is always tempting me! Its so evil!!

    I have a friend who drinks 5 cups of coffee a day, perhaps we should make that illegal as well? 

    Its clear that the people in the debate last night have no respect for the common Caymanian. The "debaters" (dont know why they are called that since there was no debate – they all just agreed that gambling is evil!) suggest that a grown Caymanian person cannot decide for themselves that they should not spend all their money in a casino so the debaters will decide for them and deny them the option.

    Anyways, back to the original point! When am I getting my money back for all the church raffles?

    • Anonymous says:

      I agree with you.

      But, the right thing is for all churches to stop taking part in raffels because it is against the law and it is wrong.

      Plain and simple.

  17. Bow Line says:

    William Peguero is still a pastor, is he? The impudence of suggesting that authentic Caymanians should be excluded is well noted. To serve further in the ostricizing of Caymanians is unbelievable.Unbelieveable! Caymanians are god fearing people who dont by majority favour rolling the dice in a attempt to secure their future.One ridiculous concept after another,& never a vigoruos approach or pro-active thought about any form of export by the people of this country.Like boat building for instance.No that would be too nationalistic & securing for Caymanians.The impudence of this premier! “he will allow” no my friend the “people will allow”.

    • Caymanians for Good says:

      Caymanians God “Fearing”??…maybe God “believing” but ready to gamble!!. Cayman has changed. Wake up and smell the roses…and pass the dice.

      Churches can say anything at this point but when put to a secret ballot Cayman will choose Casinos and Lotteries everyday of the week. They do already.

      • Anonymous says:

        I pray that you are wrong, my sister or brother.

         

        • Twyla Mae Vargas says:

          You know something 16:35, Caymanians for good comments are not wrong.

          Maybe at one time you could say Cayman was God fearing, now it is far from the truth.  However the pastors has a duty to inform what the bible says, even if some of them are making their own laws as they go.

          Truth  and fact is that buying the lottery has been going on here for more than Fifty six years.  Almost  60 years.  I am an antique and artifac collector, and I have a legal MALTA ticket in my possession, which bears the name of a very prominent Peaching Caymanian figure of those times.

          It is the right of the church to speak up on matters of Gods Laws.  We as a community can believe or follow only if we feel they are correct.  Not all pastors are preaching the truth, because some of them can hardly read the bible. So intelligent people, christians or not are able to detect sence from nonsene.

          Truth and fact is we will have to accept, whether we like it or not, CAYMAN IS GAMBLING  and BETTING and there is not a police, Indian Chief or Cook, that will be able to stop it.   But it is like drinking. and watching XXX on your TV.    You can make your own choice to change the channel and not be a part of it.   Simple as that. 

          As or me, how I feel is that the same people objecting to the Gambling should read the 4th Commandment, and those same people need to stop being hippocrites and take up a decision petition to stop the sale of Alcohol and bars opening on Sabbath day and Sundays.   I bet not one of you will attempt to touch that.   So now you see why sinners dont want to go to church.  They dont trust what is being taught by some.

  18. anonymous says:

    I think you will find that the statement that the NIC “supports the introduction of exclusive casinos for visitors” is not quite correct.

    What I understand from a NIC member, and what Pastor Peguero said, is that it has recommended that “casinos be CONSIDERED as a revenue source” in lieu of direct taxation, not that NIC “supports” it. That is what the public letter also said. Not sure if there has been change in the NIC since that time.

    • Anon says:

      Sounds like a feeble attempt to split hairs. Casinos are not a novel idea. If the NIC is putting it forward to be considered then it is recommending it, especially when it distinguishes between casinos for everyone and one that excludes locals. What would be the point otherwise?  I am not sure what "in lieu of direction taxation" adds to the issue.  Is this a way of saying that it is the lesser of two evils? 

  19. Anonymous says:

    Dear Pastor Peguero, Gambling is a devil but it is OK if we make money from the None-Caymanian?!!!!!

    • Anonymous says:

      These church and school people are hypocrite as they do gamble on islands by selling raffle tickets!! Stop saying gamble is devil or bad.

    • Anonymous says:

      The Expats were and are a vital part of these islands becoming as successful as they were and are today.

       

      Cayman,  Get over yourselves before it is too late.

       

      As Mr. grade 9 edumacation Mr. Makeevaah says, We are not the only Girl on the Block.

      It is Time to Stand up for our proper wages and stick to our guns.

      We deserve as much or more than the expats want.

      It’s time to take control of these islands.

    • Anonymous says:

      Foolishness

      Foolishness

      Gambling for all or none

      Better none!

  20. CSI says:

    This panel was loaded from the start.  No way a proper impartial debate or discussion could have happened.  Poor Gilbert never had a chance.

    • Anonymous says:

      All churches do not sell raffle tickets.

      There are still some churches that do not sell raffle tickets. All should not be painted with the same brush.

      • Anonymous says:

         Agreed.  There are those practising alternative ways to raise funds, some good; some not so good.

  21. Anonymous says:

    I really don’t think it matters, by time we paid the Electricity, Water & the Grocery Bills one is lucky to have money for Gas left, much less anything to play at the Casinos!!!

    Realistically however, Casinos are very serious revenue proven Entity’s all over the World and we truly need more Revenue here in Cayman! A National lottery would be a good start as long as the Gov is not involved in its operation and management!

     

    • Anonymous says:

      No, we don’t need more revenues, we need to cut the bloated CS.

    • Pauly Cicero says:

      It matters when the casino gets the money before the electricity, water, and gas are paid.

  22. Watler says:

    Zzzz…

    This is a public debate. This means nothing. When we have an all island vote, then you will see the numbers

    • Anon says:

      I absolutely agree with you – the way they’re going about this it seems like they don’t want it to happen – an island-wide vote is definitely whats needed to see the real figures.

      • Anon says:

        What should have happened instead?

        • Anonymous says:

          Stop wasting money on more committees/panels and meetings and just go straight to a private vote – so people can have their say privately and without influence from others.  

          • Anonymous says:

            The point is that many people at this point do not have any knowledge or understanding of what they would be voting for or against.   

            This is the way these issues are handled in sophisticated societies.

            • People's Front of Cayman says:

              Referenda are contrary to our system of delegative parliamentary government.  If referenda were to be used at all they should be reserved for issues of constitutional significance, and with all respect, gambling is of no constitutional importance whatosoever.

      • Anonymous says:

        Yes, it is a public debate! If the public is not consulted, they complain.  Now the public is asked to participate and you are still complaining!  It says ‘before the referendum’….. !!!!

        • Anonymous says:

          In all honesty, I think the public would much prefer the ability to vote in a privateballot, rather than publicly state their opinions in front of others/certain people… if you know how I mean?  Then we would see the votes.

          • Anonymous says:

            Obviously as the organizers said this is not a substitute for a referendum but to help prepare us for the referendum by discussing the issue and hearing different ideas and getting some information on the subject. 

  23. Olivaire Watler says:

    Generation NOW wishes to thank CNS for its excellent coverage and support of this ground-breaking event. We also thank the public for its participation in attending the event, posing questions and comments to the panel and for listening in on radio.

    Our primary objective for this event was to initiate a national debate on the issue of legalized gambling and while we have achieved that there is clearly much more discussion that needs to occur before the promised referendum. The public should expect to hear further from Generation NOW on this and other topical issues of national importance.     

    Olivaire Watler

    • Anonymous says:

      I count about 30 people on the photo.  That is about 0.06% of the population.

      What a waste of time again. We can already gamble by buying raffle tickets or numbers or stock, insurances, pensionplans etc etc.

      Whether legalized gambling will come or not is irrelevant. The choice will be made by mckeeva/ryan/kenneth etc and nobody else. Somebody will excessively profit from it and the "normal" people will pay the bill.

      An I am sick of this christian bull all the time. So unbelievable hypocritical they are.  People are dying  here because they can’t afford their medical bill. People lose their homes, because they got fired. No social security. Only me, me and me. Disgusting ! So shut up about your so called christian country.

      Bunch of hypocrites.

       

      • Anon says:

        There were at peak a total of 75 persons present, plus the hundreds listening by radio. By Cayman standards that’s a decent turnout for a public meeting .  

      • Twyla Mae Vargas says:

        17:59  you are abolutely correct in you final paragrah as I paste below.,

        I am sick of this christian bull all the time. So unbelievable hypocritical they are.  People are dying  here because they can’t afford their medical bill. People lose their homes, because they got fired. No social security. Only me, me and me. Disgusting ! So shut up about your so called christian country.

        Bunch of hypocrites.

         

      • Anonymous says:

        God still love you, he is such a merciful God.

    • Pit Bull says:

      Shouldn’t that be issues of "territorial importance"?