Calls for moderator rejected
(CNS): The premier has rejected calls from the founders of the social media site opposing direct taxation on work permit holders to have an independent person moderate tonight’s public meeting at Mary Miller Hall. Eden Hurlston told CNS that he and many people from the Facebook group wanted the premier to use a moderator to ensure the public would be able to participate in tonight’s meeting about the budget, ask questions and offer solutions. However, he says that the premier has rejected the suggestion and the group fears a repeat of the West Bay meeting where people did not get answers to their questions and where too much time was wasted by the premier attacking his opponents.
Hurlston, a local musician and entertainer, said he and members of Caymanians and Expats United Against Taxation want to hear the proposals that McKeeva Bush is expected to present to solve the budget problem; they do not want him to spend two hours berating others for the problems the country now faces.
“In the interest of a truly productive discussion on these issues, which are extremely important to all of us, we proposed that tonight's meeting be moderated by a neutral party,” Hurlston said. “We hoped to have an allotted time for government’s presentation and then a set time for questions and comments. This would have helped to maintain civility during the discussion, give everyone a chance to express themselves and get their questions answered. If this truly is a public meeting that would have been a sensible way to proceed, but the premier has declined.”
He said that the group had received a response to an email they sent to the premier yesterday in which Bush said neither he nor Cabinet was interested in a neutral professional moderator.
“Unfortunately, he refused to entertain it, and said that there were laws guiding the procedure of public meetings, which we're unable to find,” Hurlston noted. He pointed to the bill of rights which will come into effect in November and the rights of the people to be treated fairly in their dealings with government, which extends to any decision government makes in relation to the people.
“It also seems that the Cabinet sees public meetings as an obligation, leaving us wondering if they really are interested in what the people have to say,” Hurlston added.
According to the last public statement from Bush on the issue, he will be using the meeting scheduled for 7:30 Wednesday evening at the Mary Miller Hall to inform the public about the revenue raising measures he proposes to introduce into the 2012/13 budget to replace the now rejected expat tax.
At the last meeting Hurlston and others had questioned the premier about the alternatives to the discriminatory proposal, which they believe would have seen guests in their country forced to foot the bill for ongoing over-spending by governments elected by Caymanians, not foreign workers.
He was disappointed that there were no answers that night and is concerned that there will not be full and transparent answers this evening either. The group is also worried about the intimidation of those who are asking questions and the rude way people were treated at the last meeting.
.
“Bush said that he will personally supervise the meeting and use of the microphone,” he added. “We did ask him to ensure adequate time for the public to speak and we intend to hold him to this. After West Bay meeting, we can only hope the Red Bay meeting will be more productive and that everyone will be peaceful, respectful and focused on the common good of Cayman.”
The exact nature of the new revenue raising measures has not yet been outlined but it is understood that they are focused on the financial services sector and the high-end condo market. Bush said Monday evening that if alternative revenue raising measures could be found that did not impact poorer Caymanians, he would pull the contentious expat tax, which he had dubbed the 'community enhancement fee'.
After some confusion over the weekend about proposals by the business community being accepted and then rejected, Bush confirmed Monday that the tax was off the table. He said he had a commitment from the private sector to support other measures that could replace the controversial fee.
Whatever new fees or taxes the government proposes will need to meet the approval of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, which is pressing government to produce a surplus budget with sustainable and credible revenue-raising measures, as well as significant spending cuts.
Category: Local News
Lets not waste time asking this man questions he can't answer. Lets figure out how to change things at the polls in 2013.
Things might change in 2013 but not in West Bay, Mac will always be KING for as long as he will run for politicial office in West Bay.
Obviously you haven't heard that half of West Bay woke up and voted against him in the recent polls. And you surely haven't heard that "time longa dan rope". Even the West Bayers are waking up. Better get yourself on the right side my friend cause dere aint ga be no mo free friges.
Thank God for the wise and great leaders of Anguilla and BVI. It is such a pleasure to visit these two wonderful and unique islands. To the leaders of both I say continue on the same path, don't rush for over development and national debt which is the path of poverty and third world culture.
I just LOVE CNS. Everyday I read these posters I get a good workout on my fat tummy. I have actually lost 8 inches off my waist from reading these comments and looking dam good. The posters are hilarious and there is no sad or boring hour in my life. You blogers are the best. Cayman is a happy place based on these commentators. Nobody takes anything serious on this islands.
Perhaps you could share your little secret with our premier.
I say we round up some tourists and let them watch some democracy in action. They could see what their travel dollars are supporting andthe young-uns could get a glimpse of British reserve and good manners.
The premier is a coward. If he allowed a moderator at tonights meeting he would have to answer questions, & he couldn't attack & insult innocent people who oppose him. He couldn't handle that! He is a coward & bully. Oh, & did I mention dictator? What do you expect?
Forget the moderator, let’s just have a new premier.
A Moderator. In the Cayman Islands?
What a novel thought. Almost quaint.
Will the meeting be carried live by Radio Cayman?
outburst woman: Just don't let that hateful woman get the mike again to spit out her venom and poison against expats.
I understand that she is one of the park rangers in west bay paid monthly with our $3000. Her job is to watch the trees grow…
Park Ranger to watch trees making $3,000 atleast she is working in her own country and that of her great grand parents on both side can we say the same for you?
So are you saying that both you and her can trace your family tree all the way back to the Pirates? or maybe even the turtles that were the sole inhabitants here before the pirates came?
Cool…
You think she would make a good representative for the Premier or the Government? Did you listen to this person and notice her manner and jesticulations? This is a clear indication of a person who is not in control of her emotions. It appeared she was ready to fight. Is this the picture you want to present on the world wide web? would you send someone like this to the United Nations as a rep of Cayman Islands?. Well I might be overstating the point with this example but You get the picture?
She is no worst that those that come into this country and want to take it away from Caymanians. Yes, let her be angry this is her country she is a Caymanian born and bred. The bunch of you should be very luck that it's not some where else. FYI, Native Caymanians no longer care what the world thinks of our passive behaviour for the first time in 50 years we don't have jobs, risk losing our home and some are having difficulty in finding the next meal. Yes she should have the fight in her to take back her country. If this crap continues you will soon see the world press here and many young Caymanians are planning to do just that so let the foolishness continue. I know a group now that is trying to get some money together to take reporters into certain areas of Cayman to let the world see how many in the rich Cayman Islands live. I was the voice of reason that told them not to but now I don't know if I should continue when they are not the people that benefits from any of the development. A young man said back in the day atleast I have my spear gun and fish pot, now I have nothing because I can't even make a living off the sea like I could 20 years ago. Sad indeed, yes let her be angry if this is what is happening to Caymanians.
'Worst'?
'The bunch of you'?
'Native Caymanians no longer care what the world thinks'?
'take back her country'?
'if this crap continues'?
'take reporters into certain areas of Cayman'?
Have you told your Premier all this?
There is a way of standing up for yourself and your 'country' without verbally assaulting and abusing someone that did nothing to you!
Yes, lucky you are not anywhere or somewhere else……!!
She deserves the mike just as much as those who expats who post that the Premier of the Cayman Islands (whether you like him or not is a duly elected member of these islands) is a Dog and Rat.
I have no way of telling if it's expats or locals calling him a dog but I agree that it should stop, it's very upsetting to my dog.
The word moderation is not in this man's dictionary!
It's time to get serious, who's going to throw a shoe at McKeeva?
Maybe we should all just go barefoot to show how broke we are…
Mac allow a nuetral moderator?….that's like expecting him (and/or his Cabinet) to have an "objective debate"!
These clowns that make up the UDP are NOT about debate nor are they about education, transparency, accountability…."Good Governanace".
Would be funny….if it all wasn't so serious! So much damage by this Govt.
Education Tourism in Grand Cayman.
I just want to throw this out there as an alternative to create new revenue and kick start the East End and the country on a hold. Mr. Miller I encourage you to get behind this please.
Use the New Mega Million Dollar High School in the East End as an International University of Study.
Market Cayman as an alternate study destination. Earn your degree, study in the sun and party on the beach after, something like that.
Second contract suitable qualified Teachers and Professors to come to Cayman to teach at that University.
If the school can hold 1,000 International student at $30,000 a year for tuition (just a ball park figure) this will generate $30,000,000 million minus $10 mill tocover expenses = Net $20 million in just one year….. Shocking… isn’t it?
For 1000 student you will probable need about 120 Teachers and administrators which equates to more Govt fees, more revenue , increase need for accommodation, new money circulating in the economy, reduce debt at no cost to the Govt.
There is no justification at this time given our current situation to relocate the Cliffton Hunter kids from their current George Town School to house them in a New Mega Million Dollar High School in the East End at the country’s expense.
We market Sports Tourism, Medical Tourism, now let’s create Education Tourism starting with the New Mega Million Dollar High School in the East End.
No point beating a dead horse, or milking a dry cow, get new fresh ones….. Come to Cayman Islands and study in the Sun. Just an idea for our Premier
Now this is a brilliant idea!
The only thing I would add is to have live online university courses at 1/2 the price of America.
If the university is accredited just the online classes alone would provide enough funds for our whole educational system.
Very smart idea poster!
St Matthews?
Bush doesn't like to share
Best thing might be for the Facebook group to formally announce that in the expectation that bush will again fail to properly answer any questions, they are boycotting the meeting, and leave him to talk to himself, People like bush hate to be ignored.
I won't waste my time going to this meeting. I did go last week and left when it became a UDP bash everyone meeting that we all paid for.
Moderator and Mac in the same sentence
Oxymoron
Nah, just MORON
Why add the "Oxy"?
And he is going to take his ball home and not play with anyone!
We have a selfish CHILD running our country.
Resign Mac. Stay in Jamaica.
Excellent suggestion, but to be fair to the Jamaicans I reckon we should poll them first.
Great idea. I say we ask Charles Clifford to moderate. He's seemingly the only one that can control or scare McKeeva. What say you Chuckster ?
There is no such law as referred to by the Premier. He is either mistaken (in which case it's worrying that he could get it wrong) or else he is lying. I know which explanation I think is correct.
I am bewildered that the government may target financial services again – does no-one relaise the damage done last time that fees were increased – it can only bear so much. Also is this what those Caymanian business owners suggested – are any of them in the financial sector – I don't hear anything about raising work permit fees on check out chicks from Foster's and A.L Thompsons?????
"Check out chicks"? There should be a Misogyny fee across the board.
Great idea guys and nice try. Of course Mad Mac can't allow a moderator or he'll have to stop ranting at people and answer questions informatively. He knows that the day he actually has to give people proper answers to questions will be his last day in office. Keep trying!
Anyone who attends this meeting is enabling him.
“Bush said that he will personally supervise the meeting and use of the microphone,” he added.
Well that says it all folks, as it was he who moderated the last meeting in WB too, and what a shambles that turned out to be.
The suggestion for a moderator is, in my view, an extremely sensible one, and its a great shame our "Premier" seems unwilling, not unable, to ensure this turns out a measured and objective discussion for all.
"Moderator" is too big a word for the Premier. "Referee" would fit the bill.
I certainly agree with you Poster! Afterall, referee is only made up of three letters, even a kindergartener can spell referee!
There is only one question that McKeeva should face tonight. When is he going to resign? If he won't answer, the cabinet need to say when they will remove him. He is a busted flushwith no credibility. He has done, and continues to do, enormous and irreparable damage to these islands. It is long past time that he just went.
keke is a little boy attacking people because he don't like the questions he's being ask, open your eyes keke in order to be in the driving seat taking licks is all apart of being OUR LEADER!!
How can the Premier host a meeting if he's in England???
See no evil, hear no evil, but talk it, loads!!
Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, Lukaschenko, Kim Il Jung (or son of)…you have a competitor!!!! Currently he is not olympic class…to my knowledge no 7 hour tirades so far, no public humiliation of athletes who did not win Gold (God Bless them for trying so hard), but it can only be a heartbeat away..Maybe he is trying to sell Cayman to Chavez?
Moderators are diplomatic. They keep things civil, harmonious and on track. Not Mac's style and not in his vocabulary. Without a moderator I don't hold much hope for tonight being any different from Wednesday at West Bay but nevertheless, I will be there. Thanks to Eden and Co for making the suggestion well ahead of time and through the right channels. All we can do is keep hitting our leader rational suggestions which with every rejection will expose the Premier as the stubborn, arrogant, egotistical person he is.
Clearly he cares little for the people he claims to represent.
I don't know what the people of the Facebook Group was thinking. You're dealing with McKeeva Bush! No patience and time for people.
To gain the needed revenue:
1.A Tax % of realtors commissions in the area of 3%,they have had a monopoly too long
2.Re-introduce garbage fees…and double it…Caymanians have to pay too this time
3.Double vehicle license registration fees
4.Raise vehicle import duty
5.Lower the CUC fuel duty for consumers
6. Also implement higher fees on various financial services
7. Licensing and registration fees for watercraft.
The revenue is not needed! Stop pissing away more and more money year after year.
Why offer more revenue to the already ample existing revenue measures, when we have no actual proof that additional revenue is necessary, nor guarantee that finance minister can or will stick to any plan?
you are looking to help with those suggestions!
To gain the needed surplus:
1. Reduce expenditure
2. Reduce expenditure
3. Reduce expenditure
4. Reduce expenditure
5. Reduce expenditure
6. Reduce expenditure
7. Lock the premier inside his house in West Bay.
Particularly on the luxury cars – Porches seem to have taken over from the BMW's and Mercedes Bens now. Somebody is making money!!!
Shut down CINICO, now!
13:20
Why shut down CINICO…you dislike poor people that bad? maybe you want to suggest that the medium and high paid public servants pay their 50% of the contribution.
You sound just like the republicans…leave the 35 millions of americans without health care.
They were asking Bush to give up control to a impartial third party. This man is about grabbing control not giving it up. I am sure that tonight he will once again speak for an hour and a half hoping people lose interest by the end of his ravings. Then he will shut down any questions he does not like. Just like always!
Dictators don't like moderators.
Absolutely nothing will be gained from this meeting, it will be a repeat of every other meeting Bush has held as far back as I can remeber;
1) Long winded illetrate rant by Bush
2) long winded rant by his supporters offering absolutely nothing and offending everyone who isn't UDP
3) questions posed by the public
4) derogatory, cursin,g inSulting, racist remarks from Bush and his cohorts
5) absolutely nothing accomplished as usual
Ok then- but could we at least get the Jordanian to be the moderator?
He definitely seems to have unbiased views and at the West Bay meeting he agreed to the payroll tax – so we know that when he gets a job he will contribute his 10% whether or not everybody else pays…
HAHA. That was very odd having the Jordanian dude there! Bizarre.
But, you must admit, quite entertaining in McKeeva's "Theatre of the Absurd"….
Yes it was a bit odd his appearing at the podium like he did. Bush seemed to reckon it was all very normal, I noticed, in itself very peculiar, surely? Tell you the truth it was all so very primitive and uncouth. Surely this isn't what Cayman's all about?
knot so smart, you got two thumbs down. i guess there are 2 knot-so-smarter than you here… hehehe…
To get more income the premier should try taxing the over 500 banks – look at their bottom line/profit! The money they make on overnight money lending market, to each other and overseas, is phenominal! Overnight loans to other banks on say $50million at the libor rate generates lot of interest for those banks! Add this up over 365 days a year and they can more than afford to pay taxes on it. Mutual funds should be taxed also. Banks and Mutual Funds Licence fees are not high enough compared to what income they generate and the savings they make in this jurisdiction versus paying tax in other countries on their funds. Charge them 25% of what the tax would be if they maintained doing business in their originating Head Office Country! These are the entities making loads of money in Cayman and running away with the cream off the cake. I say also tax expats who make $50K an up also.
It seems no matter how much you explain, some people just don't understand the meaning of concepts like offshore finance, tax-neutral, and free movement of capital.
Cayman is in a market. Its position in that market depends on being tax free. It is already losing market share due to high regulatory and professional costs – that is the imposition of fees by Government on investors and those who serve them.
If you increase the costs, more business will leave. There are other jurisdictions who offer better terms. Cayman's only remaining advantage is that it is seen as a legally stable common law jurisdiction, with tiesto the UK and reliable courts. That advantage is shaky, particularly in the light of Government's apparent willingness to introduce arbitrary and discriminatory costs.
Cayman's time is numbered, if you ask me. We'll be back to harvesting coconuts before long.
…said the cab driver.
Get real! These entities dont do much real business here, they simply register here, tax them and they are gone because they can do so almost overnight. So, you would get X% of nil and lose the fees you get from them for which you do next to nothing! No sir, get real, you have only one choice, recognise that your spending is out of control, so control it by spending less and make sure what you spend doesnt suffer from the greed of corruption.
Like Obama and many of the yanks, many here simply do not understand what Registered Office means!
The "yanks" in Delaware know all about registered offices!
And watch the banks and expats leave, leaving Cayman without any real income. There are other jurisdictions wherethe banks are not taxed, as well as the expats. So great idea, lets gift the industry to them!
There are not "over 500 banks". The figure is closer to 280.
And the vast majority of those operate here because of the tax free advantages. Take that away and most will leave. Also, most are exempt companies which have been given 25 year tax free certificates.
As for their license fees not being high enough go and research their fees before making such a statement. Fees range from approximately KYD 45,000.00 to over KYD 700,000.00. When other costs such as work permit fees, office costs etc. are factored in I am of the opinion that they make fair contributions to Cayman.
And if Cayman was dumb enough to charge a 25% tax there would effectively be no reason for them to stay here as, through loopholes and other means, most of them pay far less that that in their home countries to begin with.
Whether you realise it or not the benefits between Cayman and the banks you want to tax has been a symbiotic one. If you don't want to believe that then maybe you would still like to be catching turtles, making rope and going to sea at 14.
The issue is that for a population of approximately 55,000 the politicians spend far too much and refuse to make the hard decisions which have been outined in various reports. The Miller Report outlined the issues and is short enough to be read quite quickly. Implore your politicians to implement those recommendations before you seek to suck the banks dry.
Maybe you would still like to be catching turtles, making rope and going to sea at 14.
As a Caymanian I would prefer our men doing that now in 2012 and still owning our country in her natural and most beautiful state, mangroves, mosquitos, swamps and all. I long for that time again when we knew each other just by the smell alone. Yes, as a Caymanian I long for the days of the craft market where I could go get some really good turtle meat. I for one would trade when we had 933 people for today and the years to come. I look forward to the day when we again know each other by name.
So why did you sell out?
Just a hunch……I think this guy was kidding in order to garner a reaction…..and it suucceeded in that regard!
OK, so you want to increase the costs on Financial services. I want to use the cost of cars as an example of why your idea will fail in the end. If you can buy a car for $20k in Miami (landed in Cayman) and $23k in Cayman, you are probably going to buy the car in Cayman because the cost and hassle of getting from Miami is not going to be worth the savings vs the hassle of dealing with it. Now if that car now costs you $30k in Cayman and still $20k from Miami landed, you are probably going to get it from Miami. The Financial Services community is the same, the costs have been rising in cayman for a long time and a lot of us feel they are at the level where they may start switching. We are already seeing it, the cost of BVI and Bahams exempted company license fee is $350, Cayman Islands $730, over DOUBLE. So a lot of the new business is going there, if you attack the mutal funds, they will just start moving their new structures to the other islands, before you know, there will be another preferred location. You might think i am wrong, but you have to ask yourself is it worth the risk, or should hard decisions on spending in the public sector be the first target along with large cap expenditure. Its up to the population of the Cayman Islands, i will have to leave if my company eventually cuts back, and thats the way it goes. But I know what I will face moving to a new country for work, a whole generation of Caymanians dont understand what its liketo work in New York, London, Singapore etc, which is where they will have to go to get work.
Dwene, da you?
If I were moderating I would tell you where I would put the microphone and it would stop Mac talking out of where he normally talks.
MrAngry (great name)
I'll lend you another microphone. Both ends of this man are interchangeable and indistinguishable.
This type of hate will destroy Cayman.